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<div>{{Short description|President of Honduras since 2022}}<br />
{{Family name hatnote|Castro|Sarmiento|lang=Spanish}}<br />
{{Use dmy dates|date=December 2021}}<br />
{{Infobox officeholder<br />
| honorific_prefix = [[Her Excellency]]<br />
| name = Xiomara Castro<br />
| image = Xiomara Castro 2023 (cropped).jpg<!--If adding a more recent image, please make sure that it is confirmed to be copyright free--><br />
| caption = Castro in 2023<br />
| office = 56th [[President of Honduras]]<br />
| status = <br />
| vicepresident = [[Salvador Nasralla]]<br />[[Doris Gutiérrez]]<br />[[Renato Florentino]]<br />
| term_start = 27 January 2022<br />
| term_end = <br />
| predecessor = [[Juan Orlando Hernández]]<br />
| successor = <br />
| office1 = Member of the [[National Popular Resistance Front]] <br />
| term_start1 = 28 June 2009<br />
| term_end1 = 26 June 2011<br />
| predecessor1 = Front established <br />
| successor1 = Front dissolved<br />
| office2 = [[First ladies and gentlemen of Honduras|First Lady of Honduras]]<br />
| president2 = [[Manuel Zelaya]]<br />
| term_label2 = In role<br />
| term_start2 = 27 January 2006<br />
| term_end2 = 28 June 2009<br />
| predecessor2 = [[Aguas Santas Ocaña Navarro|Aguas Ocaña]]<br />
| successor2 = [[Siomara Girón]]<br />
| birth_name = Iris Xiomara Castro Sarmiento<br />
| birth_date = {{Birth date and age|df=y|1959|9|30}}<br />
| birth_place = [[Santa Bárbara Department, Honduras|Santa Bárbara]], Honduras<br />
| party = [[Liberal Party of Honduras|Liberal Party]] (until 2011)<br/>[[Liberty and Refoundation]] (2011–present)<br />
| spouse = {{Marriage|[[Manuel Zelaya]]|1976}}<br />
| children = 4, including [[Xiomara Zelaya|Xiomara]]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''Iris Xiomara Castro Sarmiento'''<ref name="2021 election">{{cite web|url=https://resultadosgenerales2021.cne.hn/#resultados/PRE/HN|title=Elecciones Nacionales de Honduras 28 de Noviembre 2021 – Escrutinio Provisorio|access-date=29 November 2021}}</ref> ({{IPA-es|ˌsjoˈmaɾa ˈkastɾo}}; born 30 September 1959), also known as '''Xiomara Castro de Zelaya''',<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.presidencia.gob.hn/|title=Presidencia de la República|quote=Iris Xiomara Castro Sarmiento, también conocida como Xiomara Castro de Zelaya[…]|publisher=Government of Honduras|language=Spanish}}</ref> is a Honduran politician who is the 56th [[president of Honduras]], in office since January 2022.<ref>{{cite news|url = https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/11/30/honduras-election/|title=Honduras elects democratic socialist as its first female president, unseating conservative ruling party |newspaper=[[The Washington Post]] |access-date = 30 November 2021}}</ref> She is the country's first [[List of elected and appointed female heads of state and government|female president]], having earlier served as first lady during the presidency of her husband [[Manuel Zelaya]].<br />
<br />
Castro grew up in [[Tegucigalpa]] and studied business administration. She married Manuel Zelaya in 1976 and became active in the women's section of the [[Liberal Party of Honduras]]. She became the country's [[First Lady of Honduras|first lady]] in 2006 following her husband's victory in the [[2005 Honduran general election|2005 presidential election]]. Castro became involved in the [[National Popular Resistance Front]] after the [[2009 Honduran coup d'état|2009 coup d'état]] which resulted in the end of her husband's presidency.<br />
<br />
She was nominated as the presidential candidate of the left-wing [[Liberty and Refoundation]] (LIBRE) party at the [[2013 Honduran general election|2013 election]], finishing runner-up to [[National Party of Honduras|National Party]] candidate [[Juan Orlando Hernández]] and outpolling Liberal candidate [[Mauricio Villeda]]. At the [[2017 Honduran general election|2017 election]] she was [[Salvador Nasralla]]'s running mate, with the ticket narrowly losing to Hernández amidst allegations of irregularities. Castro was ultimately elected to the presidency [[2021 Honduran general election|in 2021]], defeating National candidate [[Nasry Asfura]] with Nasralla as her running mate. She is the first president from outside the country's two-party system since democracy was restored in 1982.<ref>{{cite web |last1=Díaz |first1=Bastián |title=Xiomara Castro, la izquierdista que se perfila como la primera mujer Presidenta de Honduras |url=https://www.latercera.com/la-tercera-pm/noticia/xiomara-castro-la-izquierdista-que-se-perfila-como-la-primera-mujer-presidenta-de-honduras/5OUIYDF5ORAQRE5KHJIMBHZ7YA/ |website=La Tercera |date=29 November 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Early life==<br />
{{unreferencedsect|date=March 2023}}<br />
The second of five children, Castro attended primary and secondary school in Tegucigalpa at the San José del Carmen Institute and the María Auxiliadora Institute.<br />
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In January 1976, Castro married Manuel Zelaya. Immediately after the wedding, they made their home in [[Catacamas]], [[Olancho Department|Olancho]].<br />
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Castro played an active part in the Association of Spouses of Members of the [[Rotary International|Rotary Club]] of Catacamas, as well as the activities developed within the group to take care of children in need in the Olancho department. She took part in the creation of the Centro de Cuidado Diurno para Niños en Catacamas (Children's Daily Care Center in Catacamas), with the aim of offering assistance to single-parent families led by women, including through the creation of projects of basic cleaning, sowing of vegetables, and floriculture as important projects of job development.<br />
<br />
==Political career==<br />
[[File:Xiomara Castro (August 07, 2007) (cropped).jpg|thumb|right|150px|Castro in August 2007]]<br />
In Catacamas, Castro organized the women's branch of the [[Liberal Party of Honduras]] and conducted a strong campaign in favor of her husband in the internal elections of February 2005, an occasion in which she was in charge of sub-political coordination of Catacamas.<br />
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As [[First Lady of Honduras]], she was in charge of social development programs, and she worked with the United Nations in coalition with other first ladies to address issues faced by women with HIV.<ref name=bigstory>{{cite web |url=http://bigstory.ap.org/article/deposed-honduran-leaders-wife-leads-polls |title=Deposed Honduran Leader's Wife Leads in Polls |first=Alberto|last= Arce |date=22 June 2013 |publisher=[[Associated Press]] |access-date=6 November 2013 |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131112004207/http://bigstory.ap.org/article/deposed-honduran-leaders-wife-leads-polls |archive-date=12 November 2013 }}</ref><br />
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Following the removal of her husband in the [[2009 Honduran coup d'état|28 June 2009 coup d'état]], she led the movement resisting the coup d'état, repeatedly joining thousands of Hondurans in the streets calling for Zelaya's return.<ref name=lanza/> This movement became known as the [[National Popular Resistance Front|National Front of Popular Resistance]] (FNRP) and formed the basis for the political party [[Libertad y Refundación|Libre]].<ref name=lanza/> She joined her husband in the Brazilian embassy, where he had taken refuge after returning to Honduras before reaching a negotiation with the de facto regime.<ref name=bigstory/><br />
<br />
===Presidential campaigns===<br />
====2013====<br />
On 1 July 2012, Castro officially launched her presidential campaign at an event in the department of Santa Barbara.<ref name=proceso>{{cite web |url=http://www.proceso.hn/especiales/g13/xiomara.html |title=Xiomara Castro Sarmiento |publisher=Proceso Digital |access-date=6 November 2013}}</ref> She then won her party's primary on 18 November 2012,<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.elfaro.net/es/201211/internacionales/10226/|title=Abogados de derecha disputarán la presidencia a Xiomara Castro, la esposa de Mel Zelaya|date=18 November 2012|work=El Faro|access-date=6 November 2013}} (Spanish)</ref> and on 16 June 2013, she was officially chosen to represent Libre in the [[2013 Honduran general election|2013 presidential election]].<ref name=lanza>{{cite web|url=http://www.elnuevoherald.com/2013/06/16/1501624/xiomara-castro-lanza-candidatura.html |title=Xiomara Castro lanza candidatura en Honduras |first=Alberto |last=Arce |date=16 June 2013 |work=[[Nuevo Herald]] |access-date=6 November 2013 |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://archive.today/20131106201205/http://www.elnuevoherald.com/2013/06/16/1501624/xiomara-castro-lanza-candidatura.html|archive-date=6 November 2013 }} (Spanish)</ref> She expressed opposition to [[neoliberalism]] and the militarization of society, and she campaigned for a constituent assembly to write a new constitution.<ref name=lanza/><br />
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Leading up to the election, she was first in the polls among all eight candidates during the months of March through October.<ref name=lanza/><ref name=bigstory/><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.elfaro.net/es/201310/internacionales/13718/|title=A un mes de las elecciones, la izquierdista Xiomara Castro encabeza las encuestas|website=El Faro|first=Noé|last= Leiva|date=24 October 2013|access-date=10 November 2013}} (Spanish)</ref> However, in the final poll before the election, she fell to second place, behind the President of the [[National Congress of Honduras|National Congress]], [[Juan Orlando Hernández]] of the [[National Party of Honduras]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.laprensa.hn/inicio/404156-96/a-un-mes-de-las-elecciones-joh-aventaja-por-cinco-punto-a|title=A un mes de las elecciones, JOH aventaja por cinco punto a Xiomara Castro|date=1 November 2013|work=La Prensa|access-date=10 November 2013}} (Spanish)</ref><ref name=bloomberg>{{cite web|url=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-31/debut-honduran-bonds-rally-as-polls-show-tighter-election.html|title=Debut Honduran Bonds Rally as Polls Show Tighter Election|first= Eric|last= Sabo |author2= Isabella Cota|date=31 October 2013|work=[[Bloomberg News]]|access-date=10 November 2013}}</ref> Castro and Hernández were widely seen as the two leading candidates going into the election.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://transatlantic-magazine.com/election-update-chile-honduras-and-venezuela/|title=Election Update . . Chile, Honduras, and Venezuela|first=Ero|last= Meyer|work=TransAtlantic Magazine|date=30 October 2013|access-date=10 November 2013}}</ref><ref name=bloomberg/> She came in second behind Hernández with 896,498 votes (28.78%) to Hernández's 1,149,302 (36.89%).<ref>{{Cite web |url=http://siede.tse.hn/app_dev.php/divulgacionmonitoreo/reporte-presidente |title=TSE official results |access-date=19 December 2017 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131217132154/http://siede.tse.hn/app_dev.php/divulgacionmonitoreo/reporte-presidente |archive-date=17 December 2013 |url-status=dead }}</ref> Even though she didn't win the presidency, she was widely seen as provoking a rupture in Honduras's bipartite system, as the support for her Libre party eclipsed that of the [[Liberal Party of Honduras|Liberal Party]], with Libre winning the second most seats in Congress.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.nacion.com/el-mundo/politica/candidata-opositora-xiomara-castro-denuncia-robo-de-su-triunfo-en-honduras/NWZGJQTMUFCXZJ7KZPRG4QMAQM/story/|title=Candidata opositora Xiomara Castro denuncia 'robo' de su triunfo en Honduras|date=28 November 2013|work=La Nación|language=es}}</ref><br />
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====2017====<br />
[[File:Xiomara Castro in 2013.jpg|thumb|right|150px|Castro in 2013]]<br />
For the [[2017 Honduran general election|2017 presidential election]], Castro again sought to be Libre's nominee.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.elheraldo.hn/eleccioneshonduras2017/partidolibre/1050492-508/xiomara-castro-una-pol%C3%ADtica-decidida-a-cambiar-a-honduras|title=Xiomara Castro, una política decidida a cambiar a Honduras|date=7 March 2017|work=El Heraldo|access-date=19 December 2017|language=es}}</ref> She easily won the primary,<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.elheraldo.hn/eleccioneshonduras2017/partidolibre/1052239-508/xiomara-castro-gana-las-primarias-de-libre-y-apunta-a-la-alianza|title=Xiomara Castro gana las primaris de Libre y apunta a la alianza|work=El Heraldo|date=12 March 2017|access-date=19 December 2017|language=es}}</ref> but when Libre formed an alliance with the [[Innovation and Unity Party]], she agreed to step aside and let Salvador Nasralla lead the alliance's presidential ticket.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.radiohrn.hn/l/noticias/salvador-nasralla-encabeza-la-alianza-opositora|title=Salvador Nasralla encabeza la alianza opositora|first=Karen N.|last= Reyes|date=21 May 2017|access-date=19 December 2017|publisher=HRN|language=es|archive-date=22 December 2017|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20171222051550/http://www.radiohrn.hn/l/noticias/salvador-nasralla-encabeza-la-alianza-opositora|url-status=dead}}</ref><br />
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The Alliance won the election in the pre-election polls, and led in the preliminary results. However, a general blackout interrupted the publication of the count for 36 hours; when it was restarted, the trend was reversed and President Juan Orlando Hernández was re-elected, leading to accusations of fraud. The ensuing demonstrations were suppressed by the government, leaving 23 people dead, hundreds injured and more than 1,350 detained.<ref>{{Cite web |last= |date=2021-11-28 |title=Elecciones en Honduras: Quién es Xiomara Castro, la mujer que terminó con el primer "golpe blando" de América latina |url=https://www.pagina12.com.ar/385740-elecciones-en-honduras-quien-es-xiomara-castro-la-mujer-que- |access-date= |website=Página12 |language=es}}</ref><br />
<br />
====2021====<br />
Castro was chosen as the 2021 presidential candidate for Libre and represented her political party in the [[2021 Honduran general election]].<ref>{{Cite news|last=Lopez|first=Oscar|date=28 November 2021|title=What's at Stake in the Honduran Presidential Election?|language=en-US|work=[[The New York Times]]|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/28/world/americas/honduras-elections.html|access-date=28 November 2021|issn=0362-4331}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|date=24 November 2021|first=Jeff|last= Ernst|title='She's the only option': Hondurans hope Xiomara Castro can lead the nation in a new direction|url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/24/honduras-presidential-election-xiomara-castro-nasry-asfura|access-date=28 November 2021|website=The Guardian|language=en}}</ref> Salvador Nasralla, a presidential candidate for the [[Savior Party of Honduras|Savior Party]], later dropped out and became Castro's running mate.<ref>{{cite web |title=Last Minute Alliance Shifts Honduras Election Scene |url=https://havanatimes.org/features/last-minute-alliance-shifts-honduras-election-scene/ |agency=El Faro|website=Havana Times |access-date=1 December 2021 |date=18 October 2021}}</ref> Polls showed a tight race between Castro and her right-wing opponent [[Nasry Asfura]], of the incumbent [[National Party of Honduras|National Party]], a two-term mayor plagued by allegations of corruption.<ref>{{Cite news|last=Palencia|first=Gustavo|date=26 November 2021|title=Honduran ruling party hopeful Asfura faces uphill climb|language=en|work=Reuters|url=https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/honduran-ruling-party-hopeful-asfura-faces-uphill-climb-2021-11-26/|access-date=28 November 2021}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|last=García|first=Jacobo|date=28 November 2021|title=Los modelos antagónicos de Xiomara Castro y Asfura se enfrentan en las urnas de Honduras|url=https://elpais.com/internacional/2021-11-28/los-modelos-antagonicos-de-xiomara-castro-y-asfura-se-enfrentan-en-las-urnas-de-honduras.html|access-date=28 November 2021|website=El País|language=es}}</ref> During her presidential campaign, she suggested the diplomatic recognition of the [[Foreign relations of China|People's Republic of China]] in Beijing over the [[Government of the Republic of China|Republic of China]] on [[Free area of the Republic of China|Taiwan]] (see [[One-China policy]]), the establishment of an [[International Commission against Impunity in Guatemala|anti-corruption commission]] backed by the United Nations similar to the one active in [[Guatemala]] and an update to the Honduran Constitution.<ref>{{Cite web|last=O’Boyle|first=Brendan|date=14 October 2021|title=Could Honduras Shift Left? A Look at Xiomara Castro|url=https://www.americasquarterly.org/article/could-honduras-shift-left-a-look-at-xiomara-castro/|url-status=live|access-date=2 December 2021|website=Americas Quarterly|language=en-US}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|date=1 December 2021|title=Honduras president-elect's China pledge puts Taiwan and US on edge|url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/honduras-xiomara-castro-taiwan-china-diplomacy|access-date=2 December 2021|website=The Guardian|language=en}}</ref> Castro has proposed a constituent assembly to rewrite the [[Constitution of Honduras]].<ref>{{Cite news|last=Olson|first=Jared|date=6 December 2021|title=Honduras Elects a Socialist—but Will She Be Allowed to Govern?|work=[[The Nation]]|url=https://www.thenation.com/article/world/castro-honduras-election/|access-date=7 December 2021}}</ref> She has also suggested easing the [[Abortion in Honduras|country's complete prohibition of abortion]], under limited circumstances, and allow the use and distribution of [[emergency contraception]].<ref name=":0">{{Cite web|date=29 November 2021|first=Jeff |last=Ernst |title=Xiomara Castro poised to become first female president of Honduras|url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/xiomara-castro-declares-victory-in-honduras-presidential-election|access-date=29 November 2021|website=[[The Guardian]]|language=en}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=8 Dec 2021 |title=First woman president in Honduras faces tough fight on abortion |url=https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/first-woman-president-honduras-faces-tough-fight-abortion-rcna8043 |access-date=2022-03-08 |website=NBC News |language=en}}</ref> <br />
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Following the release of the preliminary results of the election, Castro declared victory, and was described by international media as the apparent victor of the election, pending full results.<ref name=":0" /><ref name=":1">{{Cite web|title=Honduras set for first female president as Castro holds wide lead |url=https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/29/honduras-set-for-first-female-president-castro-holds-wide-lead|access-date=29 November 2021|publisher=Al Jazeera |language=en}}</ref> On 30 November, Asfura's party conceded defeat.<ref>{{cite web |title=Honduras' ruling party concedes presidential election to leftist |url=https://www.reuters.com/article/us-honduras-election/honduras-ruling-party-concedes-presidential-election-to-leftist-idUSKBN2IF0DV |website=Reuters |access-date=1 December 2021 |date=30 November 2021}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |url=https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/honduras-elected-first-female-president-xiomara-castro-rcna7218 |title=Honduras elected its first female president, Xiomara Castro |date=1 December 2021 |access-date=2 December 2021 |publisher=NBC News}}</ref> He then met with Castro and congratulated her. Castro became Honduras' first female president on 27 January 2022.<ref>{{cite web |title=Opposition candidate Xiomara Castro elected Honduras' first female president |url=https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2021/11/30/Honduras-Xiomara-Castro-elected-Honduras-first-female-president/7251638323525/ |publisher=UPI |access-date=1 December 2021 |date=30 November 2021}}</ref><br />
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===2022 congressional leadership dispute===<br />
<br />
Before the 2021 election, Castro had promised Salvador Nasralla that his Savior party would hold the leadership of the national congress should they win the election. This promise was one of the conditions that persuaded Nasralla to end his presidential campaign and join Castro’s. However, on 21 January 2022, 20 deputies from Libre refused to follow suit. They voted for Libre deputy Jorge Cálix to be the congressional president. The rest of the Libre deputies and allied parties voted for Luis Redondo of the Savior party. A fight then broke out on the floor of Congress, and Castro refused to recognise Cálix's election. She subsequently denounced the 20 deputies (two of whom later retracted their support for Cálix) as "traitors" and expelled 18 from Libre. The following evening Castro held a vigil with Libre supporters outside congress; she stated that the purpose of the event was "...to prevent the kidnapping of the National Congress and to reject the bipartisanship led by the dictator Juan Orlando Hernández with the direct complicity of a few traitorous deputies, elected by the people under our banner".<ref>{{cite news |title=Libre Party of Honduran President-elect expels defector deputies |url=https://www.radiohc.cu/en/noticias/internacionales/283679-libre-party-of-honduran-president-elect-expels-defector-deputies |access-date=27 January 2022 |work=Radio Havana Cuba |date=22 January 2022}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=Honduran Congress begins term mired in factional fighting |url=https://www.laprensalatina.com/honduran-congress-begins-term-mired-in-factional-fighting/ |access-date=27 January 2022 |work=La Prensa Latina Media |date=25 January 2022}}</ref> The dispute ended when Calíx and the expelled Libre deputies agreed to support Redondo. Castro subsequently had their party membership restored.<ref>{{cite news |title=Honduras political dispute resolved, paving way for president's anti-corruption agenda |url=https://news.yahoo.com/honduras-political-dispute-resolved-paving-010307092.html |access-date=9 February 2022 |agency=Reuters |date=8 February 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Presidency (2022–present) ==<br />
[[File:01.28 副總統率團出席宏都拉斯共和國總統卡蕬楚就職典禮 - 51847230958.jpg|thumb|right|Castro in her inauguration, January 2022]]<br />
Castro was inaugurated as president on 27 January 2022.<ref>{{Cite news|date=2022-01-27|title=Xiomara Castro: Honduras' first female president sworn in|language=en-GB|work=BBC News|url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-60155634|access-date=2022-01-31}}</ref> She was sworn in at the Tegucigalpa National Soccer Stadium,<ref>{{Cite web |date=30 January 2022 |title=XIOMARA CASTRO INAUGURATED AS HONDURAS' FIRST FEMALE PRESIDENT |url=https://latindispatch.com/2022/01/30/xiomara-castro-inaugurated-as-honduras-first-female-president/ |url-status=live |website=latindispatch.com}}</ref> with thousands of individuals present. Among the attendees were [[King of Spain]] [[Felipe VI of Spain|Felipe VI]], [[Vice President of Taiwan]] [[Lai Ching-te]], [[U.S. Vice President]] [[Kamala Harris]], [[Vice president of Argentina|Vice President of Argentina]] [[Cristina Fernández de Kirchner]], [[Vice President of Cuba]] [[Salvador Valdés Mesa]] and [[President of Costa Rica]] [[Carlos Alvarado Quesada]].<ref>{{cite news |title=Xiomara Castro toma posesión como nueva presidenta de Honduras|url=https://www.lne.es/internacional/2022/01/27/xiomara-castro-toma-posesion-nueva-62031978.html|access-date=28 January 2022 |work=La Nueva España|date=27 January 2022}}</ref> <br />
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Castro is the first female President of Honduras and the first to not be a member of the National or Liberal parties since the restoration of democracy in 1982. During her inaugural address, Castro said, "the economic catastrophe that I'm inheriting is unparalleled in the history of our country." She also promised to combat corruption and inequality which she said was 'rampant' during the rule of the previous National government.<ref>{{cite news |title=Honduras swears in Xiomara Castro as first female president |url=https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/27/honduras-swears-in-xiomara-castro-as-first-female-president |access-date=28 January 2022 |work=Al Jazeera |date=27 January 2022}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=Honduras inaugurates first female president, Harris vows closer U.S. ties |url=https://news.yahoo.com/ |access-date=28 January 2022 |agency=Reuters |date=28 January 2022}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=Xiomara Castro: from first lady to Honduras's first woman president |url=https://news.yahoo.com/xiomara-castro-first-lady-hondurass-204034488.html |access-date=28 January 2022 |work=AFP |date=28 January 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
Xiomara Castro inherited a deeply corrupt state apparatus, leading her to choose to extradite her predecessor Juan Orlando Hernández to the United States for his links to drug trafficking, rather than hand him over to the Honduran justice system. Her government asked for UN help in setting up an international commission to fight corruption.<ref name=":2">{{Cite web |last=Goodfriend |first=Hilary |title=A new phase of struggle in Honduras |url=https://africasacountry.com/2022/07/a-new-phase-of-struggle-in-honduras |access-date= |website=africasacountry.com |language=en-US}}</ref><br />
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She is confronted with the strong vulnerability of Honduras to US pressure to keep Honduras within regional [[free trade]] regimes and the presence of the US military on its territory. In addition, the Supreme Court, whose members were appointed by previous governments, is obstructing some of her reform plans, such as the amnesty of those convicted for political reasons after the 2009 coup.<ref name=":2" /><br />
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===Economic policy===<br />
In her inaugural speech, Castro vowed to re-found a [[democratic socialist]] state, stating she had a duty to restore an economic system based upon transparency, efficiency of production, social justice in the distribution of wealth and in national income, and that her vision of her world puts the human being before the rules of the market.<ref name=celag>{{cite news |title=Toma de posesión de Xiomara Castro |url=https://www.celag.org/toma-de-posesion-de-xiomara-castro/|date=27 January 2022|access-date=27 January 2022|via=CELAG|language=es}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=Xiomara Castro asume la presidencia y propone refundar un Honduras socialista y democrático |url=https://ifmnoticias.com/xiomara-castro-asume-la-presidencia-y-propone-refundar-un-honduras-socialista-y-democratico/|date=28 January 2022|access-date=28 January 2022|via=IFM Noticias|language=es}}</ref><br />
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In February 2022, she halted the eviction of indigenous families in dispute with a businessman over the ownership of a large piece of land south of the capital.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2022-02-10 |title=Honduras president stops eviction of indigenous community |url=https://www.rfi.fr/en/honduras-president-stops-eviction-of-indigenous-community |access-date= |website=RFI |language=en}}</ref> <br />
<br />
She banned open-pit mining in March 2022 due to the extensive damage to the environment. The government also promised to intervene "immediately" to conserve areas of "high environmental value" for the benefit of the population.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220301-honduras-bans-open-pit-mining|title = Honduras bans open-pit mining|work=France24|date = 1 March 2022|access-date=7 May 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
In May 2022, Castro signed a measure passed by Congress to abolish Honduras' [[Zone for Employment and Economic Development (Honduras)|special economic zones]], which the previous National government implemented.<ref>{{cite news |last1=González |first1=Marlon |title=Honduran economic zones in 'limbo' after government repeal |url=https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-04-30/honduran-economic-zones-in-limbo-after-government-repeal |access-date=7 May 2022 |work=Los Angeles Times |date=30 April 2022 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20220505200701/https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-04-30/honduran-economic-zones-in-limbo-after-government-repeal |archive-date=5 May 2022|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
<br />
====Energy====<br />
In a bid to combat poverty, Castro announced during her inauguration that the poorest families in Honduras; those that consume under 150kWh per month of electricity, will no longer pay electricity bills, and that the additional cost of this policy will be paid for by the biggest consumers assuming an extra charge on their bills.<ref>{{cite news|title=Honduras: Xiomara Castro juró como presidenta y anunció gratuidad de la luz para familias pobres|url=https://www.rfi.fr/es/am%C3%A9ricas/20220128-honduras-xiomara-castro-jur%C3%B3-como-presidenta-y-anunci%C3%B3-gratuidad-de-la-luz-para-familias-pobres|access-date=28 January 2022|via=[[Radio France Internationale]]|language=es}}</ref> In addition, Castro also announced that her government would send a decree to the [[National Congress of Honduras]] to achieve a fuel subsidy, and vowed no more concessions in the exploitation of rivers, hydrographic basins and national parks.<ref>{{cite news|title=Va con todas sus fuerzas: las promesas de Xiomara Castro tras convertirse en la primera Presidenta de Honduras|url=https://www.diez.hn/fotogalerias/xiomara-castro-promesas-presidenta-de-honduras-estadio-nacional-tegucigalpa-mel-zelaya-EY5274170#image-9|access-date=27 January 2022|via=[[Diez (Honduras)]]|language=es}}</ref><br />
<br />
====Fiscal policy====<br />
In her inaugural address, Castro announced to the nation that the largest base of the budget she will present to parliament is dedicated to salaries and wages.<ref>{{cite tweet|user=radioamericahn|number=1487165270842085382|title=#AméricaNoticias #Honduras “La mayor base del presupuesto se designa a sueldos y salarios”: Xiomara Castro, presidenta de Honduras. #RadioAmérica |date=27 January 2022|access-date=27 January 2022}}</ref> In-addition, Castro stated that she had ordered her Minister of Finance and the Central Bank to take action to reduce interest rates for production.<ref name=celag/><br />
<br />
==== Security policy ====<br />
On 25 November 2022, a [[state of emergency]] was declared to deal with crime. Honduras, along with [[Guatemala]] and [[El Salvador]], belongs to the "triangle of death" in Central America, a region plagued by violence, poverty and corruption.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Honduras declares national emergency over gang extortion – DW – 11/26/2022 |url=https://www.dw.com/en/honduras-declares-national-emergency-over-gang-extortion/a-63895434 |access-date= |website=dw.com |language=en}}</ref><br />
<br />
===Foreign policy===<br />
<br />
====Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic====<br />
In February of 2022, Deputy Foreign Minister Gerardo Torres Zelaya held a meeting with Saharawi President [[Brahim Ghali]], which concluded with an announcement that diplomatic relations between the peoples and governments of Honduras and the SADR had been restored and would be deepened.<ref>{{cite news |title=Honduras restablece relaciones con la República Saharaui. Declaración oficial del alto representante de Honduras luego de reunirse con el Presidente Saharaui.|trans-title=Honduras reestablishes relations with the Saharawi Republic. Official declaration of the high representative of Honduras after meeting with the Saharawi President.|url=https://werkenrojo.cl/honduras-restablece-relaciones-con-la-republica-saharaui-declaracion-oficial-del-alto-representante-de-honduras-luego-de-reunirse-con-el-presidente-saharaui/ |access-date=13 February 2022 |work=Werken Rojo|date=13 February 2022|language=es}}</ref><br />
<br />
====Taiwan and People's Republic of China====<br />
[[File:01.27 「副總統率團出席宏都拉斯共和國總統卡蕬楚就職典禮」向卡蕬楚總統當選人致意並呈遞特使國書 - 51845921976.jpg|thumb|right|Castro and the Taiwanese vice-president [[Lai Ching-te]] in 2022]]<br />
Castro has reassured that she has no plans of changing recognition from the [[Republic of China (Taiwan)]] to the [[People's Republic of China]], and vowed to vice president [[Lai Ching-te]] to strengthen the relationship with Taiwan. Furthermore, a spokesperson for Castro said that she has "no immediate intention to change or shift the [[One-China policy]]."<ref>{{cite news |title=Xiomara Castro asume como la primera presidenta de Honduras, con foco en lazos con Taiwán |trans-title=Xiomara Castro assumes as the first president of Honduras, with a focus on ties with Taiwan|url=https://www.lanacion.com.ar/agencias/xiomara-castro-asume-como-la-primera-presidenta-de-honduras-con-foco-en-lazos-con-taiwan-nid27012022/ |access-date=28 January 2022 |work=[[La Nación]]| via= [[Reuters]] |agency=[[Thomson Reuters Foundation]] |date=27 January 2022|language=es}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |last1=AFP |title=Castro está dispuesta a fortalecer los lazos de Honduras con Taiwán | trans-title=Castro is willing to strengthen Honduran ties with Taiwan|url=https://www.france24.com/es/minuto-a-minuto/20220128-castro-est%C3%A1-dispuesta-a-fortalecer-los-lazos-de-honduras-con-taiw%C3%A1n |access-date=28 January 2022 |work=[[France24]] |date=28 January 2022|language=es}}</ref> However, on 14 March 2023, Castro instructed her foreign minister to move to cut ties with Taiwan in order to establish [[China–Honduras relations|formal relations with the People's Republic of China]] as the sole Chinese state.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Kwan |first1=Rhoda |title=Honduras to switch ties from Taiwan to China, says president |url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/15/honduras-to-switch-ties-from-taiwan-to-china-says-president |access-date=15 March 2023 |work=The Guardian |date=15 March 2023}}</ref><br />
<br />
Retired Taiwanese KMT opposition member, Tsai Cheng-yuan (Alex), posted on social media that this move was a result of Taiwan refusing to shelter Castro during the 2009 coup.<ref>{{Citation |title=台宏斷交藏"新仇舊恨"?!昔曾冒險庇護"宏國總統家族" 蔡正元還原一手真相... @CtiNews |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_rWEr3hdxA |access-date=2023-03-30 |language=en}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Taiwan helped Honduran first family in 2009 coup: Ex-ambassador - Focus Taiwan |url=https://focustaiwan.tw/politics/202303240010 |access-date=2023-03-29 |website=Focus Taiwan - CNA English News |language=en-US}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2023-03-25 |title=Taiwan helped Honduran first family in 2009 coup - Taipei Times |url=https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2023/03/25/2003796711 |access-date=2023-03-29 |website=www.taipeitimes.com}}</ref> Castro was the first lady at the time, and the Taiwanese embassy only offered her pregnant daughter political protection on humanitarian grounds. Castro only found refuge at the Brazilian embassy. Lai Chien-chung, the Taiwanese ambassador to Honduras during that time, admitted the refusal stating that it was to spread the risk and disputed the opposition's narrative of indifference. She said that her office reached out to Castro and sheltered her husband and two daughters. Tsai claims that Taipei staff evicted the family and called in the military police to arrest them establishing a long term enmity between the left wing Libre party and Taiwan. The family finally settled down living in the Brazilian embassy.<ref>{{Cite news |last=Maisonnave |first=Fabiano |date=2009-10-25 |title=Manuel Zelaya undergoes strange siege inside Brazilian embassy |language=en-GB |work=The Guardian |url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/oct/25/honduras-manuel-zelaya-embassy-siege |access-date=2023-03-29 |issn=0261-3077}}</ref> <br />
<br />
Other critics cite US support of the 2009 rightwing coup with America justifying their actions on the grounds that Manuel Zelaya was attempting to hold a referendum to change the constitution to allow a two-term limit rather than the existing single-term limit.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Significance of return of the Left in the Honduras elections |url=https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2021/12/02/significance-of-return-of-the-left-in-the-honduras-elections.html |access-date=2023-03-30 |website=The Week |language=en}}</ref> In 2013, the US then was silent when the rightwing president changed the constitution allowing him a second term in 2017. Following her election, she cited US interventionism and pressure especially in regards to Taiwan in Central America as motive to open diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China.<ref>{{Cite web |last=MacDonald |first=Scott B. |date=2021-12-18 |title=China’s Inroads in Latin America and the Caribbean Demand a New Strategy |url=https://nationalinterest.org/feature/china%E2%80%99s-inroads-latin-america-and-caribbean-demand-new-strategy-197954 |access-date=2023-03-30 |website=The National Interest |language=en}}</ref><br />
<br />
====Venezuela====<br />
Shortly following Castro's inauguration, an event attended by representatives of the [[Nicolás Maduro]] government,<ref>{{cite news |title=Foreign Minister heads Venezuelan delegation in Xiomara Castro's investiture|url=https://en.ultimasnoticias.com.ve/news/politics/Foreign-Minister-heads-Venezuelan-delegation-in-investiture-of-Xiomara-Castro/|access-date=27 January 2022 |via=[[Últimas Noticias]]|language=en}}</ref> the Venezuelan embassy in Honduras's capital of Tegucigalpa was vacated by representatives of [[Juan Guaidó]],<ref>{{cite news |title=Venezuela restores relations with Honduras, reopens embassy|url=https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/venezuela-restores-relations-with-honduras-reopens-embassy|access-date=29 January 2022 |via=[[Al Mayadeen]]|language=en}}</ref> who had been recognised as the President of Venezuela by outgoing President [[Juan Orlando Hernández]] since the [[Venezuelan presidential crisis]].<ref>{{cite web |title=OAS Member States Issue Joint Statement on Venezuela |url=https://usoas.usmission.gov/oas-member-states-issue-joint-statement-on-venezuela/|website=US Mission to the [[Organization of American States]]|date=24 January 2019|publisher=[[United States State Department]] |access-date=14 August 2019|quote=The delegations of Argentina, Bahamas, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Ecuador, the United States, Honduras, Guatemala, Haiti, Panama, Paraguay, Peru and the Dominican Republic reaffirm the right to democracy enjoyed by the peoples of the Americas ... In this context, we recognize and express our full support to the President of the National Assembly, Juan Guaidó, who has assumed the role of President in charge of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, in accordance with the constitutional norms and the illegitimacy of the Nicolás Maduro regime.}}</ref> As a result, the embassy was recovered by the Venezuelan delegation sent by the Maduro government.<ref>{{cite news |title=Venezuela restores relations with Honduras, reopens embassy|url=https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/venezuela-restores-relations-with-honduras-reopens-embassy|access-date=29 January 2022 |via=[[Al Mayadeen]]|language=en}}</ref> Former President and [[First Ladies and Gentlemen of Honduras|First Gentleman]] [[Manuel Zelaya]] responded to the news by sending a tweet welcoming Maduro, Latin American unity and the [[Bolivarian Revolution]].<ref>{{cite tweet|user=manuelzr|number=1487165270842085382|title=Bienvenida la Unidad Latinoamericana y la Revolución bolivariana. @NicolasMaduro |date=January 28, 2022|access-date=January 28, 2022}}</ref> Soon after, the Foreign Minister of Venezuela, Félix Plasencia and newly appointed Foreign Minister of Honduras Enrique Reina announced the restoration of diplomatic relations between the two nations for the first time since 2009,<ref>{{cite tweet|user=EnriqueReinaHN|number=1487481798124843014|title=Recibimos las copias de estilo de la Embajadora @MargaudGpsuv en compañía del Canciller @PlasenciaFelix para el restablecimiento de relaciones diplomáticas con la República Bolivariana de Venezuela|date=January 29, 2022|access-date=January 29, 2022}}</ref><ref>{{cite tweet|user= CancilleriaVE|number=1487110231389839361|title=#EnVideo 🎥 Desde Honduras el canciller de Venezuela, Félix Plasencia, anunció el restablecimiento de las relaciones diplomáticas entre ambas naciones y la recuperación de la sede diplomática. |date=January 28, 2022|access-date=January 28, 2022}}</ref> when they were severed shortly after the [[2009 Honduran coup d'état|coup]].<ref>{{cite news |title=De facto rulers move to expel Venezuelan diplomats|url=https://www.france24.com/en/20090721-de-facto-rulers-move-expel-venezuelan-diplomats-|access-date=21 July 2009 |via=[[France 24]]|language=en}}</ref> The restoration of diplomatic relations was followed by Honduran accreditation of the Venezuelan ambassador Margaud Godoy by Foreign Minister Reina,<ref>{{cite news |title=Gobierno de Venezuela acredita formalmente a su embajadora en Honduras|url=http://www.radioamerica.hn/gobierno-de-venezuela-acredita-formalmente-su-embajadora-en-honduras/|access-date=29 January 2022 |via=Radio America Honduras|language=es}}</ref> who said that if the United States had any uncertainty about Honduras' position, reestablishment of relations with Venezuela "for Honduras is a matter of sovereign foreign policy".<ref>{{cite news |title=Gobierno de Xiomara Castro descarta «por el momento» establecer relaciones con China Continental|url=http://www.radioamerica.hn/gobierno-de-xiomara-castro-descarta-por-el-momento-establecer-relaciones-con-china-continental/|access-date=29 January 2022 |via=Radio America Honduras|language=es}}</ref><br />
<br />
== See also ==<br />
* [[List of presidents of Honduras]]<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{Reflist}}<br />
<br />
== External links==<br />
* {{commonscat inline}}<br />
* {{Wikiquote inline}}<br />
* [https://www.cidob.org/biografias_lideres_politicos/america_central_y_caribe/honduras/xiomara_castro_de_zelaya Biography by CIDOB]<br />
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{{DEFAULTSORT:Castro, Xiomara}}<br />
[[Category:1959 births]]<br />
[[Category:Living people]]<br />
[[Category:20th-century Honduran women]]<br />
[[Category:21st-century Honduran women politicians]]<br />
[[Category:21st-century Honduran politicians]]<br />
[[Category:Candidates for President of Honduras]]<br />
[[Category:Female heads of government]]<br />
[[Category:Female heads of state]]<br />
[[Category:First ladies and gentlemen of Honduras]]<br />
[[Category:Honduran socialists]]<br />
[[Category:Liberty and Refoundation politicians]]<br />
[[Category:People from Santa Bárbara Department, Honduras]]<br />
[[Category:Honduran Roman Catholics]]<br />
[[Category:Presidents of Honduras]]<br />
[[Category:Women presidents]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Xiomara_Castro&diff=1147290875Xiomara Castro2023-03-30T00:10:59Z<p>Hmm...: /* Taiwan and People's Republic of China */ Expansion of rationale</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Short description|President of Honduras since 2022}}<br />
{{Family name hatnote|Castro|Sarmiento|lang=Spanish}}<br />
{{Use dmy dates|date=December 2021}}<br />
{{Infobox officeholder<br />
| honorific_prefix = [[Her Excellency]]<br />
| name = Xiomara Castro<br />
| image = Xiomara Castro 2023 (cropped).jpg<!--If adding a more recent image, please make sure that it is confirmed to be copyright free--><br />
| caption = Castro in 2023<br />
| office = 56th [[President of Honduras]]<br />
| status = <br />
| vicepresident = [[Salvador Nasralla]]<br />[[Doris Gutiérrez]]<br />[[Renato Florentino]]<br />
| term_start = 27 January 2022<br />
| term_end = <br />
| predecessor = [[Juan Orlando Hernández]]<br />
| successor = <br />
| office1 = Member of the [[National Popular Resistance Front]] <br />
| term_start1 = 28 June 2009<br />
| term_end1 = 26 June 2011<br />
| predecessor1 = Front established <br />
| successor1 = Front dissolved<br />
| office2 = [[First ladies and gentlemen of Honduras|First Lady of Honduras]]<br />
| president2 = [[Manuel Zelaya]]<br />
| term_label2 = In role<br />
| term_start2 = 27 January 2006<br />
| term_end2 = 28 June 2009<br />
| predecessor2 = [[Aguas Santas Ocaña Navarro|Aguas Ocaña]]<br />
| successor2 = [[Siomara Girón]]<br />
| birth_name = Iris Xiomara Castro Sarmiento<br />
| birth_date = {{Birth date and age|df=y|1959|9|30}}<br />
| birth_place = [[Santa Bárbara Department, Honduras|Santa Bárbara]], Honduras<br />
| party = [[Liberal Party of Honduras|Liberal Party]] (until 2011)<br/>[[Liberty and Refoundation]] (2011–present)<br />
| spouse = {{Marriage|[[Manuel Zelaya]]|1976}}<br />
| children = 4, including [[Xiomara Zelaya|Xiomara]]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''Iris Xiomara Castro Sarmiento'''<ref name="2021 election">{{cite web|url=https://resultadosgenerales2021.cne.hn/#resultados/PRE/HN|title=Elecciones Nacionales de Honduras 28 de Noviembre 2021 – Escrutinio Provisorio|access-date=29 November 2021}}</ref> ({{IPA-es|ˌsjoˈmaɾa ˈkastɾo}}; born 30 September 1959), also known as '''Xiomara Castro de Zelaya''',<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.presidencia.gob.hn/|title=Presidencia de la República|quote=Iris Xiomara Castro Sarmiento, también conocida como Xiomara Castro de Zelaya[…]|publisher=Government of Honduras|language=Spanish}}</ref> is a Honduran politician who is the 56th [[president of Honduras]], in office since January 2022.<ref>{{cite news|url = https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/11/30/honduras-election/|title=Honduras elects democratic socialist as its first female president, unseating conservative ruling party |newspaper=[[The Washington Post]] |access-date = 30 November 2021}}</ref> She is the country's first [[List of elected and appointed female heads of state and government|female president]], having earlier served as first lady during the presidency of her husband [[Manuel Zelaya]].<br />
<br />
Castro grew up in [[Tegucigalpa]] and studied business administration. She married Manuel Zelaya in 1976 and became active in the women's section of the [[Liberal Party of Honduras]]. She became the country's [[First Lady of Honduras|first lady]] in 2006 following her husband's victory in the [[2005 Honduran general election|2005 presidential election]]. Castro became involved in the [[National Popular Resistance Front]] after the [[2009 Honduran coup d'état|2009 coup d'état]] which resulted in the end of her husband's presidency.<br />
<br />
She was nominated as the presidential candidate of the left-wing [[Liberty and Refoundation]] (LIBRE) party at the [[2013 Honduran general election|2013 election]], finishing runner-up to [[National Party of Honduras|National Party]] candidate [[Juan Orlando Hernández]] and outpolling Liberal candidate [[Mauricio Villeda]]. At the [[2017 Honduran general election|2017 election]] she was [[Salvador Nasralla]]'s running mate, with the ticket narrowly losing to Hernández amidst allegations of irregularities. Castro was ultimately elected to the presidency [[2021 Honduran general election|in 2021]], defeating National candidate [[Nasry Asfura]] with Nasralla as her running mate. She is the first president from outside the country's two-party system since democracy was restored in 1982.<ref>{{cite web |last1=Díaz |first1=Bastián |title=Xiomara Castro, la izquierdista que se perfila como la primera mujer Presidenta de Honduras |url=https://www.latercera.com/la-tercera-pm/noticia/xiomara-castro-la-izquierdista-que-se-perfila-como-la-primera-mujer-presidenta-de-honduras/5OUIYDF5ORAQRE5KHJIMBHZ7YA/ |website=La Tercera |date=29 November 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Early life==<br />
{{unreferencedsect|date=March 2023}}<br />
The second of five children, Castro attended primary and secondary school in Tegucigalpa at the San José del Carmen Institute and the María Auxiliadora Institute.<br />
<br />
In January 1976, Castro married Manuel Zelaya. Immediately after the wedding, they made their home in [[Catacamas]], [[Olancho Department|Olancho]].<br />
<br />
Castro played an active part in the Association of Spouses of Members of the [[Rotary International|Rotary Club]] of Catacamas, as well as the activities developed within the group to take care of children in need in the Olancho department. She took part in the creation of the Centro de Cuidado Diurno para Niños en Catacamas (Children's Daily Care Center in Catacamas), with the aim of offering assistance to single-parent families led by women, including through the creation of projects of basic cleaning, sowing of vegetables, and floriculture as important projects of job development.<br />
<br />
==Political career==<br />
[[File:Xiomara Castro (August 07, 2007) (cropped).jpg|thumb|right|150px|Castro in August 2007]]<br />
In Catacamas, Castro organized the women's branch of the [[Liberal Party of Honduras]] and conducted a strong campaign in favor of her husband in the internal elections of February 2005, an occasion in which she was in charge of sub-political coordination of Catacamas.<br />
<br />
As [[First Lady of Honduras]], she was in charge of social development programs, and she worked with the United Nations in coalition with other first ladies to address issues faced by women with HIV.<ref name=bigstory>{{cite web |url=http://bigstory.ap.org/article/deposed-honduran-leaders-wife-leads-polls |title=Deposed Honduran Leader's Wife Leads in Polls |first=Alberto|last= Arce |date=22 June 2013 |publisher=[[Associated Press]] |access-date=6 November 2013 |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131112004207/http://bigstory.ap.org/article/deposed-honduran-leaders-wife-leads-polls |archive-date=12 November 2013 }}</ref><br />
<br />
Following the removal of her husband in the [[2009 Honduran coup d'état|28 June 2009 coup d'état]], she led the movement resisting the coup d'état, repeatedly joining thousands of Hondurans in the streets calling for Zelaya's return.<ref name=lanza/> This movement became known as the [[National Popular Resistance Front|National Front of Popular Resistance]] (FNRP) and formed the basis for the political party [[Libertad y Refundación|Libre]].<ref name=lanza/> She joined her husband in the Brazilian embassy, where he had taken refuge after returning to Honduras before reaching a negotiation with the de facto regime.<ref name=bigstory/><br />
<br />
===Presidential campaigns===<br />
====2013====<br />
On 1 July 2012, Castro officially launched her presidential campaign at an event in the department of Santa Barbara.<ref name=proceso>{{cite web |url=http://www.proceso.hn/especiales/g13/xiomara.html |title=Xiomara Castro Sarmiento |publisher=Proceso Digital |access-date=6 November 2013}}</ref> She then won her party's primary on 18 November 2012,<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.elfaro.net/es/201211/internacionales/10226/|title=Abogados de derecha disputarán la presidencia a Xiomara Castro, la esposa de Mel Zelaya|date=18 November 2012|work=El Faro|access-date=6 November 2013}} (Spanish)</ref> and on 16 June 2013, she was officially chosen to represent Libre in the [[2013 Honduran general election|2013 presidential election]].<ref name=lanza>{{cite web|url=http://www.elnuevoherald.com/2013/06/16/1501624/xiomara-castro-lanza-candidatura.html |title=Xiomara Castro lanza candidatura en Honduras |first=Alberto |last=Arce |date=16 June 2013 |work=[[Nuevo Herald]] |access-date=6 November 2013 |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://archive.today/20131106201205/http://www.elnuevoherald.com/2013/06/16/1501624/xiomara-castro-lanza-candidatura.html|archive-date=6 November 2013 }} (Spanish)</ref> She expressed opposition to [[neoliberalism]] and the militarization of society, and she campaigned for a constituent assembly to write a new constitution.<ref name=lanza/><br />
<br />
Leading up to the election, she was first in the polls among all eight candidates during the months of March through October.<ref name=lanza/><ref name=bigstory/><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.elfaro.net/es/201310/internacionales/13718/|title=A un mes de las elecciones, la izquierdista Xiomara Castro encabeza las encuestas|website=El Faro|first=Noé|last= Leiva|date=24 October 2013|access-date=10 November 2013}} (Spanish)</ref> However, in the final poll before the election, she fell to second place, behind the President of the [[National Congress of Honduras|National Congress]], [[Juan Orlando Hernández]] of the [[National Party of Honduras]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.laprensa.hn/inicio/404156-96/a-un-mes-de-las-elecciones-joh-aventaja-por-cinco-punto-a|title=A un mes de las elecciones, JOH aventaja por cinco punto a Xiomara Castro|date=1 November 2013|work=La Prensa|access-date=10 November 2013}} (Spanish)</ref><ref name=bloomberg>{{cite web|url=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-31/debut-honduran-bonds-rally-as-polls-show-tighter-election.html|title=Debut Honduran Bonds Rally as Polls Show Tighter Election|first= Eric|last= Sabo |author2= Isabella Cota|date=31 October 2013|work=[[Bloomberg News]]|access-date=10 November 2013}}</ref> Castro and Hernández were widely seen as the two leading candidates going into the election.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://transatlantic-magazine.com/election-update-chile-honduras-and-venezuela/|title=Election Update . . Chile, Honduras, and Venezuela|first=Ero|last= Meyer|work=TransAtlantic Magazine|date=30 October 2013|access-date=10 November 2013}}</ref><ref name=bloomberg/> She came in second behind Hernández with 896,498 votes (28.78%) to Hernández's 1,149,302 (36.89%).<ref>{{Cite web |url=http://siede.tse.hn/app_dev.php/divulgacionmonitoreo/reporte-presidente |title=TSE official results |access-date=19 December 2017 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131217132154/http://siede.tse.hn/app_dev.php/divulgacionmonitoreo/reporte-presidente |archive-date=17 December 2013 |url-status=dead }}</ref> Even though she didn't win the presidency, she was widely seen as provoking a rupture in Honduras's bipartite system, as the support for her Libre party eclipsed that of the [[Liberal Party of Honduras|Liberal Party]], with Libre winning the second most seats in Congress.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.nacion.com/el-mundo/politica/candidata-opositora-xiomara-castro-denuncia-robo-de-su-triunfo-en-honduras/NWZGJQTMUFCXZJ7KZPRG4QMAQM/story/|title=Candidata opositora Xiomara Castro denuncia 'robo' de su triunfo en Honduras|date=28 November 2013|work=La Nación|language=es}}</ref><br />
<br />
====2017====<br />
[[File:Xiomara Castro in 2013.jpg|thumb|right|150px|Castro in 2013]]<br />
For the [[2017 Honduran general election|2017 presidential election]], Castro again sought to be Libre's nominee.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.elheraldo.hn/eleccioneshonduras2017/partidolibre/1050492-508/xiomara-castro-una-pol%C3%ADtica-decidida-a-cambiar-a-honduras|title=Xiomara Castro, una política decidida a cambiar a Honduras|date=7 March 2017|work=El Heraldo|access-date=19 December 2017|language=es}}</ref> She easily won the primary,<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.elheraldo.hn/eleccioneshonduras2017/partidolibre/1052239-508/xiomara-castro-gana-las-primarias-de-libre-y-apunta-a-la-alianza|title=Xiomara Castro gana las primaris de Libre y apunta a la alianza|work=El Heraldo|date=12 March 2017|access-date=19 December 2017|language=es}}</ref> but when Libre formed an alliance with the [[Innovation and Unity Party]], she agreed to step aside and let Salvador Nasralla lead the alliance's presidential ticket.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.radiohrn.hn/l/noticias/salvador-nasralla-encabeza-la-alianza-opositora|title=Salvador Nasralla encabeza la alianza opositora|first=Karen N.|last= Reyes|date=21 May 2017|access-date=19 December 2017|publisher=HRN|language=es|archive-date=22 December 2017|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20171222051550/http://www.radiohrn.hn/l/noticias/salvador-nasralla-encabeza-la-alianza-opositora|url-status=dead}}</ref><br />
<br />
The Alliance won the election in the pre-election polls, and led in the preliminary results. However, a general blackout interrupted the publication of the count for 36 hours; when it was restarted, the trend was reversed and President Juan Orlando Hernández was re-elected, leading to accusations of fraud. The ensuing demonstrations were suppressed by the government, leaving 23 people dead, hundreds injured and more than 1,350 detained.<ref>{{Cite web |last= |date=2021-11-28 |title=Elecciones en Honduras: Quién es Xiomara Castro, la mujer que terminó con el primer "golpe blando" de América latina |url=https://www.pagina12.com.ar/385740-elecciones-en-honduras-quien-es-xiomara-castro-la-mujer-que- |access-date= |website=Página12 |language=es}}</ref><br />
<br />
====2021====<br />
Castro was chosen as the 2021 presidential candidate for Libre and represented her political party in the [[2021 Honduran general election]].<ref>{{Cite news|last=Lopez|first=Oscar|date=28 November 2021|title=What's at Stake in the Honduran Presidential Election?|language=en-US|work=[[The New York Times]]|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/28/world/americas/honduras-elections.html|access-date=28 November 2021|issn=0362-4331}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|date=24 November 2021|first=Jeff|last= Ernst|title='She's the only option': Hondurans hope Xiomara Castro can lead the nation in a new direction|url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/24/honduras-presidential-election-xiomara-castro-nasry-asfura|access-date=28 November 2021|website=The Guardian|language=en}}</ref> Salvador Nasralla, a presidential candidate for the [[Savior Party of Honduras|Savior Party]], later dropped out and became Castro's running mate.<ref>{{cite web |title=Last Minute Alliance Shifts Honduras Election Scene |url=https://havanatimes.org/features/last-minute-alliance-shifts-honduras-election-scene/ |agency=El Faro|website=Havana Times |access-date=1 December 2021 |date=18 October 2021}}</ref> Polls showed a tight race between Castro and her right-wing opponent [[Nasry Asfura]], of the incumbent [[National Party of Honduras|National Party]], a two-term mayor plagued by allegations of corruption.<ref>{{Cite news|last=Palencia|first=Gustavo|date=26 November 2021|title=Honduran ruling party hopeful Asfura faces uphill climb|language=en|work=Reuters|url=https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/honduran-ruling-party-hopeful-asfura-faces-uphill-climb-2021-11-26/|access-date=28 November 2021}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|last=García|first=Jacobo|date=28 November 2021|title=Los modelos antagónicos de Xiomara Castro y Asfura se enfrentan en las urnas de Honduras|url=https://elpais.com/internacional/2021-11-28/los-modelos-antagonicos-de-xiomara-castro-y-asfura-se-enfrentan-en-las-urnas-de-honduras.html|access-date=28 November 2021|website=El País|language=es}}</ref> During her presidential campaign, she suggested the diplomatic recognition of the [[Foreign relations of China|People's Republic of China]] in Beijing over the [[Government of the Republic of China|Republic of China]] on [[Free area of the Republic of China|Taiwan]] (see [[One-China policy]]), the establishment of an [[International Commission against Impunity in Guatemala|anti-corruption commission]] backed by the United Nations similar to the one active in [[Guatemala]] and an update to the Honduran Constitution.<ref>{{Cite web|last=O’Boyle|first=Brendan|date=14 October 2021|title=Could Honduras Shift Left? A Look at Xiomara Castro|url=https://www.americasquarterly.org/article/could-honduras-shift-left-a-look-at-xiomara-castro/|url-status=live|access-date=2 December 2021|website=Americas Quarterly|language=en-US}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|date=1 December 2021|title=Honduras president-elect's China pledge puts Taiwan and US on edge|url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/honduras-xiomara-castro-taiwan-china-diplomacy|access-date=2 December 2021|website=The Guardian|language=en}}</ref> Castro has proposed a constituent assembly to rewrite the [[Constitution of Honduras]].<ref>{{Cite news|last=Olson|first=Jared|date=6 December 2021|title=Honduras Elects a Socialist—but Will She Be Allowed to Govern?|work=[[The Nation]]|url=https://www.thenation.com/article/world/castro-honduras-election/|access-date=7 December 2021}}</ref> She has also suggested easing the [[Abortion in Honduras|country's complete prohibition of abortion]], under limited circumstances, and allow the use and distribution of [[emergency contraception]].<ref name=":0">{{Cite web|date=29 November 2021|first=Jeff |last=Ernst |title=Xiomara Castro poised to become first female president of Honduras|url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/xiomara-castro-declares-victory-in-honduras-presidential-election|access-date=29 November 2021|website=[[The Guardian]]|language=en}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=8 Dec 2021 |title=First woman president in Honduras faces tough fight on abortion |url=https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/first-woman-president-honduras-faces-tough-fight-abortion-rcna8043 |access-date=2022-03-08 |website=NBC News |language=en}}</ref> <br />
<br />
Following the release of the preliminary results of the election, Castro declared victory, and was described by international media as the apparent victor of the election, pending full results.<ref name=":0" /><ref name=":1">{{Cite web|title=Honduras set for first female president as Castro holds wide lead |url=https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/29/honduras-set-for-first-female-president-castro-holds-wide-lead|access-date=29 November 2021|publisher=Al Jazeera |language=en}}</ref> On 30 November, Asfura's party conceded defeat.<ref>{{cite web |title=Honduras' ruling party concedes presidential election to leftist |url=https://www.reuters.com/article/us-honduras-election/honduras-ruling-party-concedes-presidential-election-to-leftist-idUSKBN2IF0DV |website=Reuters |access-date=1 December 2021 |date=30 November 2021}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |url=https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/honduras-elected-first-female-president-xiomara-castro-rcna7218 |title=Honduras elected its first female president, Xiomara Castro |date=1 December 2021 |access-date=2 December 2021 |publisher=NBC News}}</ref> He then met with Castro and congratulated her. Castro became Honduras' first female president on 27 January 2022.<ref>{{cite web |title=Opposition candidate Xiomara Castro elected Honduras' first female president |url=https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2021/11/30/Honduras-Xiomara-Castro-elected-Honduras-first-female-president/7251638323525/ |publisher=UPI |access-date=1 December 2021 |date=30 November 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
===2022 congressional leadership dispute===<br />
<br />
Before the 2021 election, Castro had promised Salvador Nasralla that his Savior party would hold the leadership of the national congress should they win the election. This promise was one of the conditions that persuaded Nasralla to end his presidential campaign and join Castro’s. However, on 21 January 2022, 20 deputies from Libre refused to follow suit. They voted for Libre deputy Jorge Cálix to be the congressional president. The rest of the Libre deputies and allied parties voted for Luis Redondo of the Savior party. A fight then broke out on the floor of Congress, and Castro refused to recognise Cálix's election. She subsequently denounced the 20 deputies (two of whom later retracted their support for Cálix) as "traitors" and expelled 18 from Libre. The following evening Castro held a vigil with Libre supporters outside congress; she stated that the purpose of the event was "...to prevent the kidnapping of the National Congress and to reject the bipartisanship led by the dictator Juan Orlando Hernández with the direct complicity of a few traitorous deputies, elected by the people under our banner".<ref>{{cite news |title=Libre Party of Honduran President-elect expels defector deputies |url=https://www.radiohc.cu/en/noticias/internacionales/283679-libre-party-of-honduran-president-elect-expels-defector-deputies |access-date=27 January 2022 |work=Radio Havana Cuba |date=22 January 2022}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=Honduran Congress begins term mired in factional fighting |url=https://www.laprensalatina.com/honduran-congress-begins-term-mired-in-factional-fighting/ |access-date=27 January 2022 |work=La Prensa Latina Media |date=25 January 2022}}</ref> The dispute ended when Calíx and the expelled Libre deputies agreed to support Redondo. Castro subsequently had their party membership restored.<ref>{{cite news |title=Honduras political dispute resolved, paving way for president's anti-corruption agenda |url=https://news.yahoo.com/honduras-political-dispute-resolved-paving-010307092.html |access-date=9 February 2022 |agency=Reuters |date=8 February 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Presidency (2022–present) ==<br />
[[File:01.28 副總統率團出席宏都拉斯共和國總統卡蕬楚就職典禮 - 51847230958.jpg|thumb|right|Castro in her inauguration, January 2022]]<br />
Castro was inaugurated as president on 27 January 2022.<ref>{{Cite news|date=2022-01-27|title=Xiomara Castro: Honduras' first female president sworn in|language=en-GB|work=BBC News|url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-60155634|access-date=2022-01-31}}</ref> She was sworn in at the Tegucigalpa National Soccer Stadium,<ref>{{Cite web |date=30 January 2022 |title=XIOMARA CASTRO INAUGURATED AS HONDURAS' FIRST FEMALE PRESIDENT |url=https://latindispatch.com/2022/01/30/xiomara-castro-inaugurated-as-honduras-first-female-president/ |url-status=live |website=latindispatch.com}}</ref> with thousands of individuals present. Among the attendees were [[King of Spain]] [[Felipe VI of Spain|Felipe VI]], [[Vice President of Taiwan]] [[Lai Ching-te]], [[U.S. Vice President]] [[Kamala Harris]], [[Vice president of Argentina|Vice President of Argentina]] [[Cristina Fernández de Kirchner]], [[Vice President of Cuba]] [[Salvador Valdés Mesa]] and [[President of Costa Rica]] [[Carlos Alvarado Quesada]].<ref>{{cite news |title=Xiomara Castro toma posesión como nueva presidenta de Honduras|url=https://www.lne.es/internacional/2022/01/27/xiomara-castro-toma-posesion-nueva-62031978.html|access-date=28 January 2022 |work=La Nueva España|date=27 January 2022}}</ref> <br />
<br />
Castro is the first female President of Honduras and the first to not be a member of the National or Liberal parties since the restoration of democracy in 1982. During her inaugural address, Castro said, "the economic catastrophe that I'm inheriting is unparalleled in the history of our country." She also promised to combat corruption and inequality which she said was 'rampant' during the rule of the previous National government.<ref>{{cite news |title=Honduras swears in Xiomara Castro as first female president |url=https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/27/honduras-swears-in-xiomara-castro-as-first-female-president |access-date=28 January 2022 |work=Al Jazeera |date=27 January 2022}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=Honduras inaugurates first female president, Harris vows closer U.S. ties |url=https://news.yahoo.com/ |access-date=28 January 2022 |agency=Reuters |date=28 January 2022}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=Xiomara Castro: from first lady to Honduras's first woman president |url=https://news.yahoo.com/xiomara-castro-first-lady-hondurass-204034488.html |access-date=28 January 2022 |work=AFP |date=28 January 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
Xiomara Castro inherited a deeply corrupt state apparatus, leading her to choose to extradite her predecessor Juan Orlando Hernández to the United States for his links to drug trafficking, rather than hand him over to the Honduran justice system. Her government asked for UN help in setting up an international commission to fight corruption.<ref name=":2">{{Cite web |last=Goodfriend |first=Hilary |title=A new phase of struggle in Honduras |url=https://africasacountry.com/2022/07/a-new-phase-of-struggle-in-honduras |access-date= |website=africasacountry.com |language=en-US}}</ref><br />
<br />
She is confronted with the strong vulnerability of Honduras to US pressure to keep Honduras within regional [[free trade]] regimes and the presence of the US military on its territory. In addition, the Supreme Court, whose members were appointed by previous governments, is obstructing some of her reform plans, such as the amnesty of those convicted for political reasons after the 2009 coup.<ref name=":2" /><br />
<br />
===Economic policy===<br />
In her inaugural speech, Castro vowed to re-found a [[democratic socialist]] state, stating she had a duty to restore an economic system based upon transparency, efficiency of production, social justice in the distribution of wealth and in national income, and that her vision of her world puts the human being before the rules of the market.<ref name=celag>{{cite news |title=Toma de posesión de Xiomara Castro |url=https://www.celag.org/toma-de-posesion-de-xiomara-castro/|date=27 January 2022|access-date=27 January 2022|via=CELAG|language=es}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=Xiomara Castro asume la presidencia y propone refundar un Honduras socialista y democrático |url=https://ifmnoticias.com/xiomara-castro-asume-la-presidencia-y-propone-refundar-un-honduras-socialista-y-democratico/|date=28 January 2022|access-date=28 January 2022|via=IFM Noticias|language=es}}</ref><br />
<br />
In February 2022, she halted the eviction of indigenous families in dispute with a businessman over the ownership of a large piece of land south of the capital.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2022-02-10 |title=Honduras president stops eviction of indigenous community |url=https://www.rfi.fr/en/honduras-president-stops-eviction-of-indigenous-community |access-date= |website=RFI |language=en}}</ref> <br />
<br />
She banned open-pit mining in March 2022 due to the extensive damage to the environment. The government also promised to intervene "immediately" to conserve areas of "high environmental value" for the benefit of the population.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220301-honduras-bans-open-pit-mining|title = Honduras bans open-pit mining|work=France24|date = 1 March 2022|access-date=7 May 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
In May 2022, Castro signed a measure passed by Congress to abolish Honduras' [[Zone for Employment and Economic Development (Honduras)|special economic zones]], which the previous National government implemented.<ref>{{cite news |last1=González |first1=Marlon |title=Honduran economic zones in 'limbo' after government repeal |url=https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-04-30/honduran-economic-zones-in-limbo-after-government-repeal |access-date=7 May 2022 |work=Los Angeles Times |date=30 April 2022 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20220505200701/https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-04-30/honduran-economic-zones-in-limbo-after-government-repeal |archive-date=5 May 2022|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
<br />
====Energy====<br />
In a bid to combat poverty, Castro announced during her inauguration that the poorest families in Honduras; those that consume under 150kWh per month of electricity, will no longer pay electricity bills, and that the additional cost of this policy will be paid for by the biggest consumers assuming an extra charge on their bills.<ref>{{cite news|title=Honduras: Xiomara Castro juró como presidenta y anunció gratuidad de la luz para familias pobres|url=https://www.rfi.fr/es/am%C3%A9ricas/20220128-honduras-xiomara-castro-jur%C3%B3-como-presidenta-y-anunci%C3%B3-gratuidad-de-la-luz-para-familias-pobres|access-date=28 January 2022|via=[[Radio France Internationale]]|language=es}}</ref> In addition, Castro also announced that her government would send a decree to the [[National Congress of Honduras]] to achieve a fuel subsidy, and vowed no more concessions in the exploitation of rivers, hydrographic basins and national parks.<ref>{{cite news|title=Va con todas sus fuerzas: las promesas de Xiomara Castro tras convertirse en la primera Presidenta de Honduras|url=https://www.diez.hn/fotogalerias/xiomara-castro-promesas-presidenta-de-honduras-estadio-nacional-tegucigalpa-mel-zelaya-EY5274170#image-9|access-date=27 January 2022|via=[[Diez (Honduras)]]|language=es}}</ref><br />
<br />
====Fiscal policy====<br />
In her inaugural address, Castro announced to the nation that the largest base of the budget she will present to parliament is dedicated to salaries and wages.<ref>{{cite tweet|user=radioamericahn|number=1487165270842085382|title=#AméricaNoticias #Honduras “La mayor base del presupuesto se designa a sueldos y salarios”: Xiomara Castro, presidenta de Honduras. #RadioAmérica |date=27 January 2022|access-date=27 January 2022}}</ref> In-addition, Castro stated that she had ordered her Minister of Finance and the Central Bank to take action to reduce interest rates for production.<ref name=celag/><br />
<br />
==== Security policy ====<br />
On 25 November 2022, a [[state of emergency]] was declared to deal with crime. Honduras, along with [[Guatemala]] and [[El Salvador]], belongs to the "triangle of death" in Central America, a region plagued by violence, poverty and corruption.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Honduras declares national emergency over gang extortion – DW – 11/26/2022 |url=https://www.dw.com/en/honduras-declares-national-emergency-over-gang-extortion/a-63895434 |access-date= |website=dw.com |language=en}}</ref><br />
<br />
===Foreign policy===<br />
<br />
====Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic====<br />
In February of 2022, Deputy Foreign Minister Gerardo Torres Zelaya held a meeting with Saharawi President [[Brahim Ghali]], which concluded with an announcement that diplomatic relations between the peoples and governments of Honduras and the SADR had been restored and would be deepened.<ref>{{cite news |title=Honduras restablece relaciones con la República Saharaui. Declaración oficial del alto representante de Honduras luego de reunirse con el Presidente Saharaui.|trans-title=Honduras reestablishes relations with the Saharawi Republic. Official declaration of the high representative of Honduras after meeting with the Saharawi President.|url=https://werkenrojo.cl/honduras-restablece-relaciones-con-la-republica-saharaui-declaracion-oficial-del-alto-representante-de-honduras-luego-de-reunirse-con-el-presidente-saharaui/ |access-date=13 February 2022 |work=Werken Rojo|date=13 February 2022|language=es}}</ref><br />
<br />
====Taiwan and People's Republic of China====<br />
[[File:01.27 「副總統率團出席宏都拉斯共和國總統卡蕬楚就職典禮」向卡蕬楚總統當選人致意並呈遞特使國書 - 51845921976.jpg|thumb|right|Castro and the Taiwanese vice-president [[Lai Ching-te]] in 2022]]<br />
Castro has reassured that she has no plans of changing recognition from the [[Republic of China (Taiwan)]] to the [[People's Republic of China]], and vowed to vice president [[Lai Ching-te]] to strengthen the relationship with Taiwan. Furthermore, a spokesperson for Castro said that she has "no immediate intention to change or shift the [[One-China policy]]."<ref>{{cite news |title=Xiomara Castro asume como la primera presidenta de Honduras, con foco en lazos con Taiwán |trans-title=Xiomara Castro assumes as the first president of Honduras, with a focus on ties with Taiwan|url=https://www.lanacion.com.ar/agencias/xiomara-castro-asume-como-la-primera-presidenta-de-honduras-con-foco-en-lazos-con-taiwan-nid27012022/ |access-date=28 January 2022 |work=[[La Nación]]| via= [[Reuters]] |agency=[[Thomson Reuters Foundation]] |date=27 January 2022|language=es}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |last1=AFP |title=Castro está dispuesta a fortalecer los lazos de Honduras con Taiwán | trans-title=Castro is willing to strengthen Honduran ties with Taiwan|url=https://www.france24.com/es/minuto-a-minuto/20220128-castro-est%C3%A1-dispuesta-a-fortalecer-los-lazos-de-honduras-con-taiw%C3%A1n |access-date=28 January 2022 |work=[[France24]] |date=28 January 2022|language=es}}</ref> However, on 14 March 2023, Castro instructed her foreign minister to move to cut ties with Taiwan in order to establish [[China–Honduras relations|formal relations with the People's Republic of China]] as the sole Chinese state.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Kwan |first1=Rhoda |title=Honduras to switch ties from Taiwan to China, says president |url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/15/honduras-to-switch-ties-from-taiwan-to-china-says-president |access-date=15 March 2023 |work=The Guardian |date=15 March 2023}}</ref><br />
<br />
Retired Taiwanese KMT opposition member, Tsai Cheng-yuan (Alex), posted on social media that this move was a result of Taiwan refusing to shelter Castro during the 2009 coup.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Taiwan helped Honduran first family in 2009 coup: Ex-ambassador - Focus Taiwan |url=https://focustaiwan.tw/politics/202303240010 |access-date=2023-03-29 |website=Focus Taiwan - CNA English News |language=en-US}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2023-03-25 |title=Taiwan helped Honduran first family in 2009 coup - Taipei Times |url=https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2023/03/25/2003796711 |access-date=2023-03-29 |website=www.taipeitimes.com}}</ref> Castro was the first lady at the time, and the Taiwanese embassy only offered her pregnant daughter political protection. Castro only found refuge at the Brazilian embassy. Lai Chien-chung, the Taiwanese ambassador to Honduras during that time, admitted the refusal stating that it was to spread the risk and disputed the opposition's narrative of indifference. She said that her office reached out to Castro and sheltered her husband and two daughters. Tsai claims that Taipei staff evicted the family and called in the military police to arrest them establishing a long term enmity between the left wing Libre party and Taiwan. The family finally settled down living in the Brazilian embassy.<ref>{{Cite news |last=Maisonnave |first=Fabiano |date=2009-10-25 |title=Manuel Zelaya undergoes strange siege inside Brazilian embassy |language=en-GB |work=The Guardian |url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/oct/25/honduras-manuel-zelaya-embassy-siege |access-date=2023-03-29 |issn=0261-3077}}</ref> <br />
<br />
Other critics cite US support of the 2009 rightwing coup with America justifying their actions on the grounds that Manuel Zelaya was attempting to hold a referendum to change the constitution to allow a two-term limit rather than the existing single-term limit.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Significance of return of the Left in the Honduras elections |url=https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2021/12/02/significance-of-return-of-the-left-in-the-honduras-elections.html |access-date=2023-03-30 |website=The Week |language=en}}</ref> In 2013, the US then was silent when the rightwing president changed the constitution allowing him a second term in 2017. Following her election, she cited US interventionism and pressure especially in regards to Taiwan in Central America as motive to open diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China.<ref>{{Cite web |last=MacDonald |first=Scott B. |date=2021-12-18 |title=China’s Inroads in Latin America and the Caribbean Demand a New Strategy |url=https://nationalinterest.org/feature/china%E2%80%99s-inroads-latin-america-and-caribbean-demand-new-strategy-197954 |access-date=2023-03-30 |website=The National Interest |language=en}}</ref><br />
<br />
====Venezuela====<br />
Shortly following Castro's inauguration, an event attended by representatives of the [[Nicolás Maduro]] government,<ref>{{cite news |title=Foreign Minister heads Venezuelan delegation in Xiomara Castro's investiture|url=https://en.ultimasnoticias.com.ve/news/politics/Foreign-Minister-heads-Venezuelan-delegation-in-investiture-of-Xiomara-Castro/|access-date=27 January 2022 |via=[[Últimas Noticias]]|language=en}}</ref> the Venezuelan embassy in Honduras's capital of Tegucigalpa was vacated by representatives of [[Juan Guaidó]],<ref>{{cite news |title=Venezuela restores relations with Honduras, reopens embassy|url=https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/venezuela-restores-relations-with-honduras-reopens-embassy|access-date=29 January 2022 |via=[[Al Mayadeen]]|language=en}}</ref> who had been recognised as the President of Venezuela by outgoing President [[Juan Orlando Hernández]] since the [[Venezuelan presidential crisis]].<ref>{{cite web |title=OAS Member States Issue Joint Statement on Venezuela |url=https://usoas.usmission.gov/oas-member-states-issue-joint-statement-on-venezuela/|website=US Mission to the [[Organization of American States]]|date=24 January 2019|publisher=[[United States State Department]] |access-date=14 August 2019|quote=The delegations of Argentina, Bahamas, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Ecuador, the United States, Honduras, Guatemala, Haiti, Panama, Paraguay, Peru and the Dominican Republic reaffirm the right to democracy enjoyed by the peoples of the Americas ... In this context, we recognize and express our full support to the President of the National Assembly, Juan Guaidó, who has assumed the role of President in charge of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, in accordance with the constitutional norms and the illegitimacy of the Nicolás Maduro regime.}}</ref> As a result, the embassy was recovered by the Venezuelan delegation sent by the Maduro government.<ref>{{cite news |title=Venezuela restores relations with Honduras, reopens embassy|url=https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/venezuela-restores-relations-with-honduras-reopens-embassy|access-date=29 January 2022 |via=[[Al Mayadeen]]|language=en}}</ref> Former President and [[First Ladies and Gentlemen of Honduras|First Gentleman]] [[Manuel Zelaya]] responded to the news by sending a tweet welcoming Maduro, Latin American unity and the [[Bolivarian Revolution]].<ref>{{cite tweet|user=manuelzr|number=1487165270842085382|title=Bienvenida la Unidad Latinoamericana y la Revolución bolivariana. @NicolasMaduro |date=January 28, 2022|access-date=January 28, 2022}}</ref> Soon after, the Foreign Minister of Venezuela, Félix Plasencia and newly appointed Foreign Minister of Honduras Enrique Reina announced the restoration of diplomatic relations between the two nations for the first time since 2009,<ref>{{cite tweet|user=EnriqueReinaHN|number=1487481798124843014|title=Recibimos las copias de estilo de la Embajadora @MargaudGpsuv en compañía del Canciller @PlasenciaFelix para el restablecimiento de relaciones diplomáticas con la República Bolivariana de Venezuela|date=January 29, 2022|access-date=January 29, 2022}}</ref><ref>{{cite tweet|user= CancilleriaVE|number=1487110231389839361|title=#EnVideo 🎥 Desde Honduras el canciller de Venezuela, Félix Plasencia, anunció el restablecimiento de las relaciones diplomáticas entre ambas naciones y la recuperación de la sede diplomática. |date=January 28, 2022|access-date=January 28, 2022}}</ref> when they were severed shortly after the [[2009 Honduran coup d'état|coup]].<ref>{{cite news |title=De facto rulers move to expel Venezuelan diplomats|url=https://www.france24.com/en/20090721-de-facto-rulers-move-expel-venezuelan-diplomats-|access-date=21 July 2009 |via=[[France 24]]|language=en}}</ref> The restoration of diplomatic relations was followed by Honduran accreditation of the Venezuelan ambassador Margaud Godoy by Foreign Minister Reina,<ref>{{cite news |title=Gobierno de Venezuela acredita formalmente a su embajadora en Honduras|url=http://www.radioamerica.hn/gobierno-de-venezuela-acredita-formalmente-su-embajadora-en-honduras/|access-date=29 January 2022 |via=Radio America Honduras|language=es}}</ref> who said that if the United States had any uncertainty about Honduras' position, reestablishment of relations with Venezuela "for Honduras is a matter of sovereign foreign policy".<ref>{{cite news |title=Gobierno de Xiomara Castro descarta «por el momento» establecer relaciones con China Continental|url=http://www.radioamerica.hn/gobierno-de-xiomara-castro-descarta-por-el-momento-establecer-relaciones-con-china-continental/|access-date=29 January 2022 |via=Radio America Honduras|language=es}}</ref><br />
<br />
== See also ==<br />
* [[List of presidents of Honduras]]<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{Reflist}}<br />
<br />
== External links==<br />
* {{commonscat inline}}<br />
* {{Wikiquote inline}}<br />
* [https://www.cidob.org/biografias_lideres_politicos/america_central_y_caribe/honduras/xiomara_castro_de_zelaya Biography by CIDOB]<br />
<br />
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{{s-ttl|title=[[President of Honduras]]|years=2022–present}}<br />
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{{Honduran Presidents}}<br />
{{Heads of state of republics}}<br />
{{Heads of State in Central America}}<br />
{{Authority control}}<br />
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{{DEFAULTSORT:Castro, Xiomara}}<br />
[[Category:1959 births]]<br />
[[Category:Living people]]<br />
[[Category:20th-century Honduran women]]<br />
[[Category:21st-century Honduran women politicians]]<br />
[[Category:21st-century Honduran politicians]]<br />
[[Category:Candidates for President of Honduras]]<br />
[[Category:Female heads of government]]<br />
[[Category:Female heads of state]]<br />
[[Category:First ladies and gentlemen of Honduras]]<br />
[[Category:Honduran socialists]]<br />
[[Category:Liberty and Refoundation politicians]]<br />
[[Category:People from Santa Bárbara Department, Honduras]]<br />
[[Category:Honduran Roman Catholics]]<br />
[[Category:Presidents of Honduras]]<br />
[[Category:Women presidents]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=University_of_Pennsylvania_School_of_Dental_Medicine&diff=1109244149University of Pennsylvania School of Dental Medicine2022-09-08T19:18:46Z<p>Hmm...: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{more citations needed|date=November 2011}}<br />
<br />
{{Infobox university<br />
| name = University of Pennsylvania<br />School of Dental Medicine<br />
| native_name = <br />
| native_name_lang = <br />
| image = Schattner Center.jpg<br />
| image_upright = 1.3<br />
| image_alt = <br />
| caption = The school's main entrance at the Robert Schattner Center<br />
| latin_name = <br />
| other_name = <!--or, other_names--><br />
| former_name = Dental Department, University of Pennsylvania<br />
| motto = ''Leges sine moribus vanae''<br />
| motto_lang = <br />
| mottoeng = Laws without morals are in vain<br />
| top_free_label = <br />
| top_free = <br />
| type = [[Private university|Private]]<br />
| established = {{start date|1878}} <br />
(first established in 1852 as Philadelphia College of Dental Surgery)<ref>[[Smith, Thomas Kilby]], ''The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania'', p. 2234 (1917)</ref><ref>Warren, George W., ''Pennsylvania College of Dental Surgery'']?, ''in'' ''History of Dental Surgery, Vol. 1'' (Charles R.E. Koch, ed.) (1909)</ref><ref>Griffin, William L.J. ''History of the Pennsylvania College of Dental Surgery'', in ''Fourth International Dental Conference'' (1905)</ref> <br />
| closed = <!-- {{end date|YYYY}} --><br />
| founder = Dr. Charles J. Essig<br />
| parent = [[University of Pennsylvania]]<br />
| affiliation = <br />
| religious_affiliation = <br />
| academic_affiliation = [[University of Pennsylvania Health System]]<br />
| endowment = <br />
| budget = <br />
| officer_in_charge = <br />
| chairman = <br />
| chairperson = <br />
| chancellor = <br />
| president = [[Amy Gutmann]]<br />
| vice-president = <br />
| superintendent = <br />
| provost = <br />
| vice_chancellor = <br />
| rector = <br />
| principal = <br />
| dean = <br />
| director = <br />
| head_label = Dean<br />
| head = Mark S Wolff, DDS, PhD<br />
| academic_staff = 42<br />
| administrative_staff = 277<br />
| students = 690<br />
| undergrad = <br />
| postgrad = <br />
| doctoral = <br />
| other = <br />
| address = 240 South 40th Street<br />
| city = [[Philadelphia]]<br />
| state = [[Pennsylvania|PA]]<br />
| province = <br />
| country = USA<br />
| postcode = 19104<br />
| coordinates = {{Coord|39.952704|-75.203259|display=title,inline}}<br />
| campus = [[Urban area|Urban]]<br />
| language = <br />
| free_label = <br />
| free = <br />
| free_label2 = <br />
| free2 = <br />
| colors = <br />
| colours = <br />
| nickname = <br />
| mascot = <br />
| athletics = <br />
| affiliations = <br />
| sports_free_label = <br />
| sports_free =<br />
| sports_free_label2 = <br />
| sports_free2 = <br />
| website = {{URL|www.dental.upenn.edu}}<br />
| logo = Penn Dental Medicine.svg<br />
| logo_size = 250px<br />
| logo_alt = Logo for the University of Pennsylvania School of Dental Medicine<br />
| footnotes = <br />
}}<br />
<br />
The '''University of Pennsylvania School of Dental Medicine''' (often referred to as '''Penn Dental Medicine''' or simply '''Penn Dental''') is the [[dental school]] of the [[University of Pennsylvania]] (Penn), an [[Ivy League]] university located in [[Philadelphia]]. It is one of twelve graduate schools at Penn and one of several [[List of dental schools in the United States#Pennsylvania|dental schools in Pennsylvania]]. <br />
<br />
==History==<br />
[[File:Philadelphia General Hospital, Oral Surgery Clinic.jpg|thumb|left|300px|Dental students observing in the Oral Surgery Clinic at the former Philadelphia General Hospital, 1910]]<br />
Penn Dental Medicine's earliest instance was the '''Philadelphia College of Dental Surgery''', which was founded in 1852. The school was renamed the '''[[Pennsylvania College of Dental Surgery]]''' in 1878. That same year, Dr. Charles J. Essig founded the Dental Department of the University of Pennsylvania, serving as the first Dean until 1883. Later, in 1909, the Pennsylvania College of Dental Surgery was absorbed into the Penn.<br />
<br />
The school's first facilities at Penn's West Philadelphia campus were housed in Medical Hall, later renamed Logan Hall and now [[Claudia Cohen]] Hall. This building was later home to the [[University of Pennsylvania Wharton School|Wharton School]], and currently houses several departments of 0the [[University of Pennsylvania School of Arts and Sciences|School of Arts and Sciences]]. In 1879, Penn Dental Medicine moved to Dental Hall, its first own building on Penn's West Philadelphia campus.<br />
<br />
In 1897, a dentist and native of Philadelphia by the name of [[Thomas W. Evans]] left his estate to create and maintain a dental school that would be "not inferior to any already established."<ref name="Gazette">{{citation | journal = [[Pennsylvania Gazette (newsletter)|The Pennsylvania Gazette]] | date = November–December 1999 | volume=98 | issue=2 | last = Hughes | first = Samuel | title=Crowns and Confidences | url = http://www.upenn.edu/gazette/1199/hughes.html | publication-place = [[Philadelphia, Pennsylvania]] |publisher=University of Pennsylvania}}</ref> Evans' generosity made possible the construction of the Evans Building (officially called the Thomas W. Evans Museum and Dental Institute) which opened in 1915, the best-equipped dental building in the nation at that time. {{citation needed|date=February 2017}}<br />
<br />
==Facilities==<br />
[[File:PennDentalSchool.jpg|thumb|300px|Penn Dental's Thomas W. Evans Institute]]<br />
Penn Dental has three main buildings, all of which are connected to each other. The '''Robert Schattner Center''', dedicated in 2002, serves as the main entrance to the Dental campus. It has clinical facilities on three levels dedicated to oral surgery to oral and maxillofacial surgery, an emergency clinic, and a faculty practice. The center bears the name of visionary benefactor and Penn Dental alumnus Robert Schattner (D’48), whose gift played a leadership role in successfully funding the building project.<br />
<br />
The '''Leon Levy Center for Oral Health Research''', dedicated in 1969, is the school's hub of research activities, made possible by the generosity of Dr. Leon Levy (D'1915). Levy spent most of his life in the communications field (including helping form the [[Columbia Broadcasting System]]). The center plays a pivotal role in Penn Dental, providing a home for basic science faculty and the facilities needed to support research programs. Penn remains among the few dental schools in the country with its own basic science faculty and a leader in oral health sciences research.<br />
<br />
The '''Thomas W. Evans Museum and Dental Institute''', originally dedicated in 1915, is named for one of Penn Dental's earliest benefactors, [[Thomas W. Evans]]. Evans built a dental career on the other side of the Atlantic, becoming the dental surgeon and confidant of [[Napoleon III]]. The collegiate gothic, Tutor-style building was considered the most advanced dental teaching facility in the nation when completed in 1915 and helped establish new standards for teaching clinical dentistry in the United States{{citation needed|date=February 2017}}. Today, the Evans Building remains the site of most of the school’s classroom instruction and clinical training.<br />
<br />
In the atrium of the Schattner Center sits the carriage that Evans and Napoleon III's wife, [[Eugénie de Montijo]], used to escape Prussia's invasion into France.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.34st.com/article/2018/01/missing-carriage-penn-dental-french-empress-school-penn-landau |title=How Penn Dental Acquired an Empress' 19th–Century Carriage |website=[[34th Street Magazine]] |date=January 23, 2018 |access-date=February 10, 2018}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Research==<br />
The school’s research enterprise is multidisciplinary, spanning both the basic and clinical sciences, concerned with the structures and functions of tissues and fluids and microbial flora in the oral cavity. Collectively, Penn Dental Medicine investigators contribute to the emerging science and practices shaping dental care. Investigations range from such areas as oral microbiology and virology, inflammation and immunity, tooth development, and the use of analgesics and sedatives, to the cellular biology of connective tissues and bone, the applications for state-of-the-art dental materials, and the causes and effects of periodontal disease. Interdisciplinary research is a hallmark of the University of Pennsylvania, and Penn Dental Medicine investigators collaborate extensively with faculty throughout the Penn campus.<br />
<br />
==Notable alumni==<br />
* [[Allan G. Brodie]]<br />
* [[Doc Bushong]], DDS, University of Pennsylvania School of Dental Medicine, Class of 1882, was one of the first to matriculate in 1878 in the brand-new Department of Dentistry, and was first [[University of Pennsylvania]] graduate from any school at Penn to play in [[Major League Baseball|Major League]] baseball<ref name=penn>[http://www.upenn.edu/gazette/0706/pro02.html University of Pennsylvania Alumni Profiles]</ref> and since he played professional baseball during his time at Penn Dental he could not play for Penn<ref name=sabr>{{sabrbio|5d4b5fe8|Brian McKenna|November 21, 2013}}</ref><ref name=penn /><br />
* [[Ashley Hebert]]<br />
* [[Doc Holliday]] (as [[Pennsylvania College of Dental Surgery]])<br />
* [[Robert H. Ivy]]<br />
* [[Willoughby D. Miller]]<br />
* [[Jacob A. Salzmann]]<br />
* [[Garfield Weede]] (November 26, 1880 – November 21, 1971), DDS, Class of 1906, played football for the [[University of Pennsylvania]] as an [[End (American football)|end]] and [[placekicker]]<ref>[https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1905/10/05/120278929.pdf New York Times] "PENNA., 16; GETTYSBURG, 6." October 5, 1905</ref> for a Penn team that was undefeated in 1904 (with a record of 12–0) and has since retroactively been declared "national champions"<ref>[http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/coaching/alltime_coach_game_by_game.php?coachid=2510&year=1904 College Football Data Warehouse] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20120427200753/http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/coaching/alltime_coach_game_by_game.php?coachid=2510&year=1904 |date=2012-04-27 }} 1904 Penn Football Results</ref> and also played and coached and /or acted as [[athletic director]] for [[basketball]], [[track and field]] and, importantly, was one of the first college coaches to "break the color line" and allow [[racial integration]] among his players<ref>[http://media.www.psucollegio.com/media/storage/paper437/news/2010/02/25/Sports/he.Believed.In.Complete.Equality-3879847-page2.shtml Pittsburg State University Collegian]{{Dead link|date=December 2019 |bot=InternetArchiveBot |fix-attempted=yes }} "He believed in complete equality" by Monica Hart, February 25, 2010</ref><br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{Reflist}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
* [http://www.dental.upenn.edu/ University of Pennsylvania School of Dental Medicine]<br />
* [http://www.dental.upenn.edu/departments_faculty/academic_departments/endodontics Department of Endodontics]<br />
* [http://hdl.library.upenn.edu/1017/d/ead/upenn_rbml_PUSpMsColl1008 Stomatological Society of Evans Dental Institute records] Kislak Center for Special Collections, Rare Books and Manuscripts, University of Pennsylvania.<br />
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{{Penn}}<br />
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{{DEFAULTSORT:Pennsylvania Dental Medicine, University of}}<br />
[[Category:Dental schools in Pennsylvania]]<br />
[[Category:Educational institutions established in 1878]]<br />
[[Category:University of Pennsylvania schools|Dental Medicine]]<br />
[[Category:1878 establishments in Pennsylvania]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kremenchuk_shopping_mall_attack&diff=1095488440Kremenchuk shopping mall attack2022-06-28T17:14:08Z<p>Hmm...: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Short description|Russian missile attack in Ukraine}}<br />
{{Current|date=June 2022}}<br />
{{Use dmy dates|date=June 2022}}<br />
{{Infobox civilian attack<br />
| title = 2022 Kremenchuk missile strike<br />
| partof = the [[2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine]]<br />
| image = Shopping center in Kremenchuk after Russian shelling, 2022-06-27 (1) frame 0246.jpg<br />
| caption = Amstor mall in Kremenchuk after Russian shelling<br />
| map = {{location map|Ukraine}}<br />
| location = [[Kremenchuk]], [[Ukraine]]<br />
| target = [[Amstor]] [[shopping mall]] in Kremenchuk<br />
| date = 27 June 2022<br />
| time = <br />
| timezone = [[Eastern European Summer Time|UTC+3]]<br />
| type = [[Missile strike]]<br />
| fatalities = 20<ref>[https://www.bbc.com/ukrainian/live/news-61792610?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62baddbab893776ef334230e%26%D0%A3%20%D0%9A%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%87%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%83%20%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%83%D0%BB%D0%B8%20%D1%89%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%88%D0%B5%2020%20%D0%BB%D1%8E%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B9%20-%20%D0%9E%D0%9F%262022-06-28T10%3A53%3A47.478Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:4c8de387-44a3-4e84-888d-bd33c320cb64&pinned_post_asset_id=62baddbab893776ef334230e&pinned_post_type=share У Кременчуку загинули щонайменше 20 людей - ОП]</ref><ref name="bbc" /><br />
| injuries = 56<ref name="Gdn20220627" /><br />
| perpetrators = {{armed forces|Russia}} <br />
| coordinates = {{Coord|49|4|12|N|33|25|30|E|region:UA-53_type:event|display=inline,title}}<br />
| motive = <br />
}}<br />
{{Campaignbox 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine}}<br />
[[File:Shopping center in Kremenchuk after Russian shelling, 2022-06-27 (1).webm|thumbtime=0:10|thumb|Fire after the strike]]<br />
[[File:Shopping center in Kremenchuk after Russian shelling, 2022-06-28 (01).jpg|thumb|Ruins of the building]]<br />
On 27 June 2022, the [[Russian Armed Forces]] [[missile strike|fired missiles]] at an [[Amstor]] [[shopping mall]] in the [[Ukraine|Ukrainian]] city of [[Kremenchuk]], [[Poltava Oblast]]. The attack killed at least twenty people and injured at least 56.<ref name="bbc">{{cite news |url=https://www.bbc.com/russian/news-61957087 |title=Россия нанесла удар по Кременчугу. Пострадал торговый центр, в котором находилось около тысячи людей |trans-title=Russia attacked Kremenchug. A shopping mall with about 1,000 people was damaged |language=ru |work=www.bbc.com}}</ref> A three-day mourning was declared in the city.<ref>[https://news.yahoo.com/most-shopping-centre-rubble-kremenchuk-072827176.html Most of the shopping centre rubble in Kremenchuk has been cleared, mourning declared in the city]</ref> The Russian [[Ministry of Defence (Russia)|Ministry of Defence]] admitted its forces carried out the strike but claimed that "the detonation of ammunition for western weapons caused a fire in a nearby non-fuctioning shopping centre."<ref>https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61960122?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62bacbc29db6d5693fa574f1%26What%20does%20Russia%20say%20about%20shopping%20centre%3F%262022-06-28T09%3A50%3A15%2B00%3A00&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:8d5f72ea-dd8e-404d-bab8-cdb808ac48c4&pinned_post_asset_id=62bacbc29db6d5693fa574f1&pinned_post_type=share</ref><br />
<br />
== Background ==<br />
Since the beginning of the full-scale Russian invasion in February 2022, the shelling of the Amstor shopping center has become the fifth attack on the city. The shelling on June 27 caused the largest number of casualties. Prior to that, attacks took place on April 2 and 24, May 12 and June 18.<ref>{{cite news |url=https://www.ukrinform.ua/rubric-regions/3470020-cerez-obstril-kremencuckoi-tec-blizko-180-tisac-ludej-mozut-zalisitis-bez-tepla-j-vodi.html |title=Через обстріл Кременчуцької ТЕЦ близько 180 тисяч людей можуть залишитись без тепла й води |trans-title=Due to the shelling of the Kremenchug CHP, about 180,000 people may be left without heat and water |work=www.ukrinform.ua}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=росія використовує в Україні надзвукові ракети типу Х-22, бо її авіація зазнає втрат - Залужний |trans-title=Russia uses X-22 supersonic missiles in Ukraine because its aircraft suffer losses - Zaluzhny |url=https://www.ukrinform.ua/rubric-ato/3482105-rosia-vikoristovue-v-ukraini-nadzvukovi-raketi-tipu-h22-bo-ii-aviacia-zaznae-vtrat-zaluznij.html |language=uk |agency=Укрінформ |date=13 May 2022 }}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=На Полтавщині знешкодили пів тонни залишків російської ракети |trans-title=Neutralized half a ton of remnants of a Russian missile in Poltava region |url=https://suspilne.media/239417-na-poltavsini-zneskodili-piv-tonni-zaliskiv-rosijskoi-raketi/ |language=uk |agency=Суспільне |date=14 May 2022 }}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=https://nv.ua/ukr/ukraine/events/udar-rosiji-po-kremenchuku-raketi-vluchili-u-tec-i-npz-ye-zhertvi-novini-ukrajini-50236595.html |title=Атака РФ на Кременчук на Великдень: ракети влучили у ТЕЦ і НПЗ, загинула одна людина, семеро зазнали поранень&nbsp;— голова ОВА |trans-title=Russian attack on Kremenchuk on Easter(trans?): rockets hit CHP and refinery, one person was killed, seven were injured & nbsp; - head of OVA |work=nv.ua}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=https://poltava.to/news/65839/ |title=У Кременчуці загасили пожежу на ТЕЦ&nbsp;— ліквідація тривала більше доби |trans-title=In Kremenchug, a fire was extinguished at a thermal power plant & nbsp; - the liquidation lasted more than a day |work=poltava.to}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/news-kremenchuk-raketnyi-udar/31903851.html |title=Вісім ракет вдарили по Кременчуку, постраждалих немає – голова ОВА |trans-title=Eight missiles hit Kremenchuk, no one was injured - the head of OVA |work=www.radiosvoboda.org}}</ref><br />
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Prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Kremenchuk was an industrial city of about 217,000 inhabitants and the location of the biggest oil refinery in Ukraine (10 km from the mall).<ref>{{cite web |last=Meitav |first=Roman |date=June 27, 2022 |title=Russian missile hits Kremenchuk shopping mall, killing at least 11 |url=https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-710527 |access-date=2022-06-27 |website=The Jerusalem Post {{!}} JPost.com |language=en-US}}</ref> The mall that was struck, measured about {{convert|1|ha|km2}} and is located in the city center.<ref name=":0" /><br />
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== Attack ==<br />
According to Ukrainian President [[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]], there were more than 1,000 people inside the mall when the strike occurred.<ref name="Reuters_Kremenchuk_27Jun2022">{{cite news |url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-missiles-hit-crowded-shopping-mall-central-ukraine-zelenskiy-2022-06-27 |title=Russian missile strike on Ukrainian mall kills at least 2, wounds 20 - Kyiv |work=[[Reuters]] |date=27 June 2022}}</ref> The BBC published interviews with people who were working or shopping in the mall at the time.<ref>{{Cite news |date=2022-06-28 |title=Kremenchuk strike: 'I didn't think they would hit a mall - it's a safe place' |language=en-GB |work=BBC News |url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61967376 |access-date=2022-06-28}}</ref>The area of the fire was more than ten thousand square meters, up to 20 vehicles were involved in extinguishing the fire.<ref name="bbc"/> Zelenskyy blamed the [[Russian Armed Forces]] for the attack.<ref>{{cite news|url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61941287|title=Busy shopping centre hit by Russian strike - Zelensky|website=BBC News|date=27 June 2022}}</ref><br />
According to the Russian Ministry of defence, the mall was non-functional.<ref>https://mobile.twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1541719633660633088</ref><br />
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According to the [[Armed Forces of Ukraine]], the destruction of civilians was carried out by [[Kh-22]] anti-ship missiles launched from Russian [[Tupolev Tu-22M|Tu-22M3]] strategic bombers that took off from the Shaikovka airfield (in the [[Kaluga Oblast|Kaluga region]]), and the missiles were launched over the territory of the [[Kursk Oblast|Kursk region]].<ref name="bbc"/> The second missile struck the Kredmash road machinery plant to the north of the mall.<ref>{{cite web |last1=Manning |first1=Joshua |title=The Russian missile strike on Kremenchuk,Ukraine, on the afternoon of 27th June saw one missile hit a shopping centre, the other a road machinery plant |url=https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/06/28/watch-road-machinery-plant-hit-by-russian-missile-strike-on-kremenchuk-ukraine/amp/ |website=www.euroweeklynews.com |publisher=Euroweeklynews |access-date=28 June 2022}}</ref> The Kredmash plant had been involved in the repair of armored personnel carriers (BTR-70s) in 2014.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Бійці АТО отримали першу партію снайперських гвинтівок "Форт-301" |url=https://molbuk.ua/podii-na-pivdennomu-shodi/80432-biyci-ato-otrymaly-pershu-partiyu-snayperskykh-gvyntivok-fort-301.html |access-date=2022-06-28 |website=Новини Чернівці: Інформаційний портал «Молодий буковинець»}}</ref> <br />
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Russia's defence ministry later officially admitted responsibility for the attack, though the mall was said not to have been the intended target.<ref name="Seddon2020628">{{cite news|last=Seddon|first=Max|url=https://www.ft.com/content/71914e5d-2304-4afe-8198-6c03ca0c1556|title=Russia claims responsibility for Kremenchuk mall strike|newspaper=Financial Times|location=London|date=28 June 2022|access-date=28 June 2022}}</ref><br />
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== Casualties ==<br />
[[Dmytro Lunin]], [[Governor of Poltava Oblast]], said 20 people were dead and 56 people were injured.<ref name="bbc" /><ref name="Gdn20220627">{{cite web |last1=Tondo |first1=Lorenzo |last2=Sauer |first2=Pjotr |title=Thirteen dead as Russian missile hits shopping centre in Ukraine |url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/27/russian-missile-hits-shopping-centre-ukraine-kremenchuk |website=The Guardian|location=London|date=27 June 2022|access-date=27 June 2022}}</ref><br />
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== Reactions ==<br />
The leaders of the [[Group of Seven|G7]] nations described the missile strike as an "abominable attack. We stand united with Ukraine in mourning the innocent victims", they said in a joint statement. "Indiscriminate attacks on innocent civilians constitute a [[war crime]]."<ref>{{cite news|last=Hughes|first=David|url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-kremenchuk-shopping-centre-war-crime-b2110814.html|title=Ukraine: Putin's attack on Kremenchuk shopping centre a 'war crime', world leaders say|website=The Independent|date=28 June 2022|access-date=28 June 2022}}</ref><br />
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US secretary of state [[Antony Blinken]] called the attack an "atrocity" and said, "The world is horrified by Russia's missile strike today, which hit a crowded Ukrainian shopping mall".<ref>{{cite news |last1=Olearchyk |first1=Roman |last2=Brower |first2=Derek |title=Russian missile strike on Ukraine shopping mall draws outcry |url=https://www.ft.com/content/ae925212-c363-439e-8b37-99ebd58cb960 |newspaper=Financial Times |date=27 June 2022 |publisher=The Financial Times Ltd |access-date=27 June 2022}}</ref> British Prime Minister [[Boris Johnson]] condemned the "cruelty and barbarism" of the attack and conveyed condolences to the civilians affected, also reaffirming support for Ukraine.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Hughes |first1=David |title=Boris Johnson condemns Putin's 'barbarism' after shopping centre missile strike |url=https://uk.news.yahoo.com/boris-johnson-condemns-putin-barbarism-170154406.html |access-date=27 June 2022 |work=[[Yahoo! News]] |date=27 June 2022}}</ref><br />
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Ukraine's Foreign Minister, [[Dmytro Kuleba]] tweeted that the attack was a disgrace to humanity and that Russia must face consequences in the form of more heavy arms to Ukraine and more sanctions against Russia.<ref name=":0">{{cite news |last=Picheta |first=Rob |date=June 27, 2022 |title=Russian airstrike hits busy shopping mall in central Ukraine |url=https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/27/europe/kremenchuk-shopping-mall-airstrike-ukraine-intl/index.html |access-date=2022-06-27 |website=CNN}}</ref><br />
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Pro-Russian [[Telegram (software)|Telegram]] channels have spread multiple conflicting theories about the missile strike, including the claim that the missile was aimed at a car factory near the mall, that the mall was being used as a military equipment warehouse, or as a base of the [[Territorial Defense Forces (Ukraine)|Territorial Defense Forces]], and that the missile strike is a Ukrainian provocation involving the use of "canned bodies".<ref>{{Cite news|title=Российские военные ударили ракетами по торговому центру в Кременчуге |trans-title=Russian military fired rockets at a shopping center in Kremenchuk |url=https://www.moscowtimes.eu/2022/06/27/rossiiskie-voennie-udarili-po-torgovomu-tsentru-v-hode-raketnogo-obstrela-kremenchuga-a21707 |date=27 June 2022 |work=[[The Moscow Times]]|language=ru-RU}}</ref><br />
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In the official Russian admission of responsibility, defence ministry spokesman [[Igor Konashenkov]] said on the following day: "The detonation of the munitions for western weaponry in storage led to a fire in a non-functioning shopping centre next to the factory."<ref name="Seddon2020628" /><br />
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== See also ==<br />
* [[Kramatorsk railway station attack]]<br />
* [[Kyiv shopping centre bombing]]<br />
* [[Timeline of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine]]<br />
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== References ==<br />
{{Reflist}}<br />
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==External links==<br />
{{Commons category-inline}}<br />
<br />
{{2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine}}<br />
{{Portal bar|Modern history|Russia|Ukraine|War}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:June 2022 events in Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:Attacks on buildings and structures in 2022]]<br />
[[Category:Attacks on buildings and structures in Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:Attacks on shopping malls]]<br />
[[Category:Mass murder in 2022]]<br />
[[Category:2020s building bombings]]<br />
[[Category:21st-century mass murder in Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:War crimes during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:Kremenchuk|2022 missile strike]]<br />
[[Category:History of Poltava Oblast]]<br />
[[Category:Airstrikes during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:Russian war crimes in Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:June 2022 crimes in Europe]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kremenchuk_shopping_mall_attack&diff=1095486703Kremenchuk shopping mall attack2022-06-28T17:05:44Z<p>Hmm...: /* Attack */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Short description|Russian missile attack in Ukraine}}<br />
{{Current|date=June 2022}}<br />
{{Use dmy dates|date=June 2022}}<br />
{{Infobox civilian attack<br />
| title = 2022 Kremenchuk missile strike<br />
| partof = the [[2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine]]<br />
| image = Shopping center in Kremenchuk after Russian shelling, 2022-06-27 (1) frame 0246.jpg<br />
| caption = Amstor mall in Kremenchuk after Russian shelling<br />
| map = {{location map|Ukraine}}<br />
| location = [[Kremenchuk]], [[Ukraine]]<br />
| target = [[Amstor]] [[shopping mall]] in Kremenchuk<br />
| date = 27 June 2022<br />
| time = <br />
| timezone = [[Eastern European Summer Time|UTC+3]]<br />
| type = [[Missile strike]]<br />
| fatalities = 20<ref>[https://www.bbc.com/ukrainian/live/news-61792610?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62baddbab893776ef334230e%26%D0%A3%20%D0%9A%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%87%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%83%20%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%83%D0%BB%D0%B8%20%D1%89%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%88%D0%B5%2020%20%D0%BB%D1%8E%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B9%20-%20%D0%9E%D0%9F%262022-06-28T10%3A53%3A47.478Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:4c8de387-44a3-4e84-888d-bd33c320cb64&pinned_post_asset_id=62baddbab893776ef334230e&pinned_post_type=share У Кременчуку загинули щонайменше 20 людей - ОП]</ref><ref name="bbc" /><br />
| injuries = 56<ref name="Gdn20220627" /><br />
| perpetrators = {{armed forces|Russia}} <br />
| coordinates = {{Coord|49|4|12|N|33|25|30|E|region:UA-53_type:event|display=inline,title}}<br />
| motive = <br />
}}<br />
{{Campaignbox 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine}}<br />
[[File:Shopping center in Kremenchuk after Russian shelling, 2022-06-27 (1).webm|thumbtime=0:10|thumb|Fire after the strike]]<br />
[[File:Shopping center in Kremenchuk after Russian shelling, 2022-06-28 (01).jpg|thumb|Ruins of the building]]<br />
On 27 June 2022, the [[Russian Armed Forces]] [[missile strike|fired missiles]] at an [[Amstor]] [[shopping mall]] in the [[Ukraine|Ukrainian]] city of [[Kremenchuk]], [[Poltava Oblast]]. The attack killed at least twenty people and injured at least 56.<ref name="bbc">{{cite news |url=https://www.bbc.com/russian/news-61957087 |title=Россия нанесла удар по Кременчугу. Пострадал торговый центр, в котором находилось около тысячи людей |trans-title=Russia attacked Kremenchug. A shopping mall with about 1,000 people was damaged |language=ru |work=www.bbc.com}}</ref> A three-day mourning was declared in the city.<ref>[https://news.yahoo.com/most-shopping-centre-rubble-kremenchuk-072827176.html Most of the shopping centre rubble in Kremenchuk has been cleared, mourning declared in the city]</ref> The Russian [[Ministry of Defence (Russia)|Ministry of Defence]] admitted its forces carried out the strike but claimed that "the detonation of ammunition for western weapons caused a fire in a nearby non-fuctioning shopping centre".<ref>https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61960122?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62bacbc29db6d5693fa574f1%26What%20does%20Russia%20say%20about%20shopping%20centre%3F%262022-06-28T09%3A50%3A15%2B00%3A00&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:8d5f72ea-dd8e-404d-bab8-cdb808ac48c4&pinned_post_asset_id=62bacbc29db6d5693fa574f1&pinned_post_type=share</ref><br />
<br />
== Background ==<br />
Since the beginning of the full-scale Russian invasion in February 2022, the shelling of the Amstor shopping center has become the fifth attack on the city. The shelling on June 27 caused the largest number of casualties. Prior to that, attacks took place on April 2 and 24, May 12 and June 18.<ref>{{cite news |url=https://www.ukrinform.ua/rubric-regions/3470020-cerez-obstril-kremencuckoi-tec-blizko-180-tisac-ludej-mozut-zalisitis-bez-tepla-j-vodi.html |title=Через обстріл Кременчуцької ТЕЦ близько 180 тисяч людей можуть залишитись без тепла й води |trans-title=Due to the shelling of the Kremenchug CHP, about 180,000 people may be left without heat and water |work=www.ukrinform.ua}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=росія використовує в Україні надзвукові ракети типу Х-22, бо її авіація зазнає втрат - Залужний |trans-title=Russia uses X-22 supersonic missiles in Ukraine because its aircraft suffer losses - Zaluzhny |url=https://www.ukrinform.ua/rubric-ato/3482105-rosia-vikoristovue-v-ukraini-nadzvukovi-raketi-tipu-h22-bo-ii-aviacia-zaznae-vtrat-zaluznij.html |language=uk |agency=Укрінформ |date=13 May 2022 }}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=На Полтавщині знешкодили пів тонни залишків російської ракети |trans-title=Neutralized half a ton of remnants of a Russian missile in Poltava region |url=https://suspilne.media/239417-na-poltavsini-zneskodili-piv-tonni-zaliskiv-rosijskoi-raketi/ |language=uk |agency=Суспільне |date=14 May 2022 }}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=https://nv.ua/ukr/ukraine/events/udar-rosiji-po-kremenchuku-raketi-vluchili-u-tec-i-npz-ye-zhertvi-novini-ukrajini-50236595.html |title=Атака РФ на Кременчук на Великдень: ракети влучили у ТЕЦ і НПЗ, загинула одна людина, семеро зазнали поранень&nbsp;— голова ОВА |trans-title=Russian attack on Kremenchuk on Easter(trans?): rockets hit CHP and refinery, one person was killed, seven were injured & nbsp; - head of OVA |work=nv.ua}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=https://poltava.to/news/65839/ |title=У Кременчуці загасили пожежу на ТЕЦ&nbsp;— ліквідація тривала більше доби |trans-title=In Kremenchug, a fire was extinguished at a thermal power plant & nbsp; - the liquidation lasted more than a day |work=poltava.to}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/news-kremenchuk-raketnyi-udar/31903851.html |title=Вісім ракет вдарили по Кременчуку, постраждалих немає – голова ОВА |trans-title=Eight missiles hit Kremenchuk, no one was injured - the head of OVA |work=www.radiosvoboda.org}}</ref><br />
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Prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Kremenchuk was an industrial city of about 217,000 inhabitants and the location of the biggest oil refinery in Ukraine (10 km from the mall).<ref>{{cite web |last=Meitav |first=Roman |date=June 27, 2022 |title=Russian missile hits Kremenchuk shopping mall, killing at least 11 |url=https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-710527 |access-date=2022-06-27 |website=The Jerusalem Post {{!}} JPost.com |language=en-US}}</ref> The mall that was struck, measured about {{convert|1|ha|km2}} and is located in the city center.<ref name=":0" /><br />
<br />
== Attack ==<br />
According to Ukrainian President [[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]], there were more than 1,000 people inside the mall when the strike occurred.<ref name="Reuters_Kremenchuk_27Jun2022">{{cite news |url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-missiles-hit-crowded-shopping-mall-central-ukraine-zelenskiy-2022-06-27 |title=Russian missile strike on Ukrainian mall kills at least 2, wounds 20 - Kyiv |work=[[Reuters]] |date=27 June 2022}}</ref> The BBC published interviews with people who were working or shopping in the mall at the time.<ref>{{Cite news |date=2022-06-28 |title=Kremenchuk strike: 'I didn't think they would hit a mall - it's a safe place' |language=en-GB |work=BBC News |url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61967376 |access-date=2022-06-28}}</ref>The area of the fire was more than ten thousand square meters, up to 20 vehicles were involved in extinguishing the fire.<ref name="bbc"/> Zelenskyy blamed the [[Russian Armed Forces]] for the attack.<ref>{{cite news|url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61941287|title=Busy shopping centre hit by Russian strike - Zelensky|website=BBC News|date=27 June 2022}}</ref><br />
According to the Russian Ministry of defence, the mall was non-functional.<ref>https://mobile.twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1541719633660633088</ref><br />
<br />
According to the [[Armed Forces of Ukraine]], the destruction of civilians was carried out by [[Kh-22]] anti-ship missiles launched from Russian [[Tupolev Tu-22M|Tu-22M3]] strategic bombers that took off from the Shaikovka airfield (in the [[Kaluga Oblast|Kaluga region]]), and the missiles were launched over the territory of the [[Kursk Oblast|Kursk region]].<ref name="bbc"/> The second missile struck the Kredmash road machinery plant to the north of the mall.<ref>{{cite web |last1=Manning |first1=Joshua |title=The Russian missile strike on Kremenchuk,Ukraine, on the afternoon of 27th June saw one missile hit a shopping centre, the other a road machinery plant |url=https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/06/28/watch-road-machinery-plant-hit-by-russian-missile-strike-on-kremenchuk-ukraine/amp/ |website=www.euroweeklynews.com |publisher=Euroweeklynews |access-date=28 June 2022}}</ref> The Kredmash plant had been involved in the repair of armored personnel carriers (BTR-70s) in 2014.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Бійці АТО отримали першу партію снайперських гвинтівок "Форт-301" |url=https://molbuk.ua/podii-na-pivdennomu-shodi/80432-biyci-ato-otrymaly-pershu-partiyu-snayperskykh-gvyntivok-fort-301.html |access-date=2022-06-28 |website=Новини Чернівці: Інформаційний портал «Молодий буковинець»}}</ref> <br />
<br />
Russia's defence ministry later officially admitted responsibility for the attack, though the mall was said not to have been the intended target.<ref name="Seddon2020628">{{cite news|last=Seddon|first=Max|url=https://www.ft.com/content/71914e5d-2304-4afe-8198-6c03ca0c1556|title=Russia claims responsibility for Kremenchuk mall strike|newspaper=Financial Times|location=London|date=28 June 2022|access-date=28 June 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Casualties ==<br />
[[Dmytro Lunin]], [[Governor of Poltava Oblast]], said 20 people were dead and 56 people were injured.<ref name="bbc" /><ref name="Gdn20220627">{{cite web |last1=Tondo |first1=Lorenzo |last2=Sauer |first2=Pjotr |title=Thirteen dead as Russian missile hits shopping centre in Ukraine |url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/27/russian-missile-hits-shopping-centre-ukraine-kremenchuk |website=The Guardian|location=London|date=27 June 2022|access-date=27 June 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Reactions ==<br />
The leaders of the [[Group of Seven|G7]] nations described the missile strike as an "abominable attack. We stand united with Ukraine in mourning the innocent victims", they said in a joint statement. "Indiscriminate attacks on innocent civilians constitute a [[war crime]]."<ref>{{cite news|last=Hughes|first=David|url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-kremenchuk-shopping-centre-war-crime-b2110814.html|title=Ukraine: Putin's attack on Kremenchuk shopping centre a 'war crime', world leaders say|website=The Independent|date=28 June 2022|access-date=28 June 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
US secretary of state [[Antony Blinken]] called the attack an "atrocity" and said, "The world is horrified by Russia's missile strike today, which hit a crowded Ukrainian shopping mall".<ref>{{cite news |last1=Olearchyk |first1=Roman |last2=Brower |first2=Derek |title=Russian missile strike on Ukraine shopping mall draws outcry |url=https://www.ft.com/content/ae925212-c363-439e-8b37-99ebd58cb960 |newspaper=Financial Times |date=27 June 2022 |publisher=The Financial Times Ltd |access-date=27 June 2022}}</ref> British Prime Minister [[Boris Johnson]] condemned the "cruelty and barbarism" of the attack and conveyed condolences to the civilians affected, also reaffirming support for Ukraine.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Hughes |first1=David |title=Boris Johnson condemns Putin's 'barbarism' after shopping centre missile strike |url=https://uk.news.yahoo.com/boris-johnson-condemns-putin-barbarism-170154406.html |access-date=27 June 2022 |work=[[Yahoo! News]] |date=27 June 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
Ukraine's Foreign Minister, [[Dmytro Kuleba]] tweeted that the attack was a disgrace to humanity and that Russia must face consequences in the form of more heavy arms to Ukraine and more sanctions against Russia.<ref name=":0">{{cite news |last=Picheta |first=Rob |date=June 27, 2022 |title=Russian airstrike hits busy shopping mall in central Ukraine |url=https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/27/europe/kremenchuk-shopping-mall-airstrike-ukraine-intl/index.html |access-date=2022-06-27 |website=CNN}}</ref><br />
<br />
Pro-Russian [[Telegram (software)|Telegram]] channels have spread multiple conflicting theories about the missile strike, including the claim that the missile was aimed at a car factory near the mall, that the mall was being used as a military equipment warehouse, or as a base of the [[Territorial Defense Forces (Ukraine)|Territorial Defense Forces]], and that the missile strike is a Ukrainian provocation involving the use of "canned bodies".<ref>{{Cite news|title=Российские военные ударили ракетами по торговому центру в Кременчуге |trans-title=Russian military fired rockets at a shopping center in Kremenchuk |url=https://www.moscowtimes.eu/2022/06/27/rossiiskie-voennie-udarili-po-torgovomu-tsentru-v-hode-raketnogo-obstrela-kremenchuga-a21707 |date=27 June 2022 |work=[[The Moscow Times]]|language=ru-RU}}</ref><br />
<br />
In the official Russian admission of responsibility, defence ministry spokesman [[Igor Konashenkov]] said on the following day: "The detonation of the munitions for western weaponry in storage led to a fire in a non-functioning shopping centre next to the factory."<ref name="Seddon2020628" /><br />
<br />
== See also ==<br />
* [[Kramatorsk railway station attack]]<br />
* [[Kyiv shopping centre bombing]]<br />
* [[Timeline of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine]]<br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
{{Reflist}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
{{Commons category-inline}}<br />
<br />
{{2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine}}<br />
{{Portal bar|Modern history|Russia|Ukraine|War}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:June 2022 events in Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:Attacks on buildings and structures in 2022]]<br />
[[Category:Attacks on buildings and structures in Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:Attacks on shopping malls]]<br />
[[Category:Mass murder in 2022]]<br />
[[Category:2020s building bombings]]<br />
[[Category:21st-century mass murder in Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:War crimes during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:Kremenchuk|2022 missile strike]]<br />
[[Category:History of Poltava Oblast]]<br />
[[Category:Airstrikes during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:Russian war crimes in Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:June 2022 crimes in Europe]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kremenchuk_shopping_mall_attack&diff=1095484419Kremenchuk shopping mall attack2022-06-28T16:54:10Z<p>Hmm...: /* Reactions */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Short description|Russian missile attack in Ukraine}}<br />
{{Current|date=June 2022}}<br />
{{Use dmy dates|date=June 2022}}<br />
{{Infobox civilian attack<br />
| title = 2022 Kremenchuk missile strike<br />
| partof = the [[2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine]]<br />
| image = Shopping center in Kremenchuk after Russian shelling, 2022-06-27 (1) frame 0246.jpg<br />
| caption = Amstor mall in Kremenchuk after Russian shelling<br />
| map = {{location map|Ukraine}}<br />
| location = [[Kremenchuk]], [[Ukraine]]<br />
| target = [[Amstor]] [[shopping mall]] in Kremenchuk<br />
| date = 27 June 2022<br />
| time = <br />
| timezone = [[Eastern European Summer Time|UTC+3]]<br />
| type = [[Missile strike]]<br />
| fatalities = 20<ref>[https://www.bbc.com/ukrainian/live/news-61792610?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62baddbab893776ef334230e%26%D0%A3%20%D0%9A%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%87%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%83%20%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%83%D0%BB%D0%B8%20%D1%89%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%88%D0%B5%2020%20%D0%BB%D1%8E%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B9%20-%20%D0%9E%D0%9F%262022-06-28T10%3A53%3A47.478Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:4c8de387-44a3-4e84-888d-bd33c320cb64&pinned_post_asset_id=62baddbab893776ef334230e&pinned_post_type=share У Кременчуку загинули щонайменше 20 людей - ОП]</ref><ref name="bbc" /><br />
| injuries = 56<ref name="Gdn20220627" /><br />
| perpetrators = {{armed forces|Russia}} <br />
| coordinates = {{Coord|49|4|12|N|33|25|30|E|region:UA-53_type:event|display=inline,title}}<br />
| motive = <br />
}}<br />
{{Campaignbox 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine}}<br />
[[File:Shopping center in Kremenchuk after Russian shelling, 2022-06-27 (1).webm|thumbtime=0:10|thumb|Fire after the strike]]<br />
[[File:Shopping center in Kremenchuk after Russian shelling, 2022-06-28 (01).jpg|thumb|Ruins of the building]]<br />
On 27 June 2022, the [[Russian Armed Forces]] [[missile strike|fired missiles]] at an [[Amstor]] [[shopping mall]] in the [[Ukraine|Ukrainian]] city of [[Kremenchuk]], [[Poltava Oblast]]. The attack killed at least twenty people and injured at least 56.<ref name="bbc">{{cite news |url=https://www.bbc.com/russian/news-61957087 |title=Россия нанесла удар по Кременчугу. Пострадал торговый центр, в котором находилось около тысячи людей |trans-title=Russia attacked Kremenchug. A shopping mall with about 1,000 people was damaged |language=ru |work=www.bbc.com}}</ref> A three-day mourning was declared in the city.<ref>[https://news.yahoo.com/most-shopping-centre-rubble-kremenchuk-072827176.html Most of the shopping centre rubble in Kremenchuk has been cleared, mourning declared in the city]</ref> The Russian [[Ministry of Defence (Russia)|Ministry of Defence]] admitted its forces carried out the strike but claimed that "the detonation of ammunition for western weapons caused a fire in a nearby non-fuctioning shopping centre".<ref>https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61960122?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62bacbc29db6d5693fa574f1%26What%20does%20Russia%20say%20about%20shopping%20centre%3F%262022-06-28T09%3A50%3A15%2B00%3A00&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:8d5f72ea-dd8e-404d-bab8-cdb808ac48c4&pinned_post_asset_id=62bacbc29db6d5693fa574f1&pinned_post_type=share</ref><br />
<br />
== Background ==<br />
Since the beginning of the full-scale Russian invasion in February 2022, the shelling of the Amstor shopping center has become the fifth attack on the city. The shelling on June 27 caused the largest number of casualties. Prior to that, attacks took place on April 2 and 24, May 12 and June 18.<ref>{{cite news |url=https://www.ukrinform.ua/rubric-regions/3470020-cerez-obstril-kremencuckoi-tec-blizko-180-tisac-ludej-mozut-zalisitis-bez-tepla-j-vodi.html |title=Через обстріл Кременчуцької ТЕЦ близько 180 тисяч людей можуть залишитись без тепла й води |trans-title=Due to the shelling of the Kremenchug CHP, about 180,000 people may be left without heat and water |work=www.ukrinform.ua}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=росія використовує в Україні надзвукові ракети типу Х-22, бо її авіація зазнає втрат - Залужний |trans-title=Russia uses X-22 supersonic missiles in Ukraine because its aircraft suffer losses - Zaluzhny |url=https://www.ukrinform.ua/rubric-ato/3482105-rosia-vikoristovue-v-ukraini-nadzvukovi-raketi-tipu-h22-bo-ii-aviacia-zaznae-vtrat-zaluznij.html |language=uk |agency=Укрінформ |date=13 May 2022 }}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=На Полтавщині знешкодили пів тонни залишків російської ракети |trans-title=Neutralized half a ton of remnants of a Russian missile in Poltava region |url=https://suspilne.media/239417-na-poltavsini-zneskodili-piv-tonni-zaliskiv-rosijskoi-raketi/ |language=uk |agency=Суспільне |date=14 May 2022 }}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=https://nv.ua/ukr/ukraine/events/udar-rosiji-po-kremenchuku-raketi-vluchili-u-tec-i-npz-ye-zhertvi-novini-ukrajini-50236595.html |title=Атака РФ на Кременчук на Великдень: ракети влучили у ТЕЦ і НПЗ, загинула одна людина, семеро зазнали поранень&nbsp;— голова ОВА |trans-title=Russian attack on Kremenchuk on Easter(trans?): rockets hit CHP and refinery, one person was killed, seven were injured & nbsp; - head of OVA |work=nv.ua}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=https://poltava.to/news/65839/ |title=У Кременчуці загасили пожежу на ТЕЦ&nbsp;— ліквідація тривала більше доби |trans-title=In Kremenchug, a fire was extinguished at a thermal power plant & nbsp; - the liquidation lasted more than a day |work=poltava.to}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/news-kremenchuk-raketnyi-udar/31903851.html |title=Вісім ракет вдарили по Кременчуку, постраждалих немає – голова ОВА |trans-title=Eight missiles hit Kremenchuk, no one was injured - the head of OVA |work=www.radiosvoboda.org}}</ref><br />
<br />
Prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Kremenchuk was an industrial city of about 217,000 inhabitants and the location of the biggest oil refinery in Ukraine (10 km from the mall).<ref>{{cite web |last=Meitav |first=Roman |date=June 27, 2022 |title=Russian missile hits Kremenchuk shopping mall, killing at least 11 |url=https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-710527 |access-date=2022-06-27 |website=The Jerusalem Post {{!}} JPost.com |language=en-US}}</ref> The mall that was struck, measured about {{convert|1|ha|km2}} and is located in the city center.<ref name=":0" /><br />
<br />
== Attack ==<br />
According to Ukrainian President [[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]], there were more than 1,000 people inside the mall when the strike occurred.<ref name="Reuters_Kremenchuk_27Jun2022">{{cite news |url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-missiles-hit-crowded-shopping-mall-central-ukraine-zelenskiy-2022-06-27 |title=Russian missile strike on Ukrainian mall kills at least 2, wounds 20 - Kyiv |work=[[Reuters]] |date=27 June 2022}}</ref> The BBC published interviews with people who were working or shopping in the mall at the time.<ref>{{Cite news |date=2022-06-28 |title=Kremenchuk strike: 'I didn't think they would hit a mall - it's a safe place' |language=en-GB |work=BBC News |url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61967376 |access-date=2022-06-28}}</ref>The area of the fire was more than ten thousand square meters, up to 20 vehicles were involved in extinguishing the fire.<ref name="bbc"/> Zelenskyy blamed the [[Russian Armed Forces]] for the attack.<ref>{{cite news|url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61941287|title=Busy shopping centre hit by Russian strike - Zelensky|website=BBC News|date=27 June 2022}}</ref><br />
According to the Russian Ministry of defence, the mall was non-functional.<ref>https://mobile.twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1541719633660633088</ref><br />
<br />
According to the [[Armed Forces of Ukraine]], the destruction of civilians was carried out by [[Kh-22]] anti-ship missiles launched from Russian [[Tupolev Tu-22M|Tu-22M3]] strategic bombers that took off from the Shaikovka airfield (in the [[Kaluga Oblast|Kaluga region]]), and the missiles were launched over the territory of the [[Kursk Oblast|Kursk region]].<ref name="bbc"/> The second missile struck the Kredmash road machinery plant to the north of the mall.<ref>{{cite web |last1=Manning |first1=Joshua |title=The Russian missile strike on Kremenchuk,Ukraine, on the afternoon of 27th June saw one missile hit a shopping centre, the other a road machinery plant |url=https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/06/28/watch-road-machinery-plant-hit-by-russian-missile-strike-on-kremenchuk-ukraine/amp/ |website=www.euroweeklynews.com |publisher=Euroweeklynews |access-date=28 June 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
Russia's defence ministry later officially admitted responsibility for the attack, though the mall was said not to have been the intended target.<ref name="Seddon2020628">{{cite news|last=Seddon|first=Max|url=https://www.ft.com/content/71914e5d-2304-4afe-8198-6c03ca0c1556|title=Russia claims responsibility for Kremenchuk mall strike|newspaper=Financial Times|location=London|date=28 June 2022|access-date=28 June 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Casualties ==<br />
[[Dmytro Lunin]], [[Governor of Poltava Oblast]], said 20 people were dead and 56 people were injured.<ref name="bbc" /><ref name="Gdn20220627">{{cite web |last1=Tondo |first1=Lorenzo |last2=Sauer |first2=Pjotr |title=Thirteen dead as Russian missile hits shopping centre in Ukraine |url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/27/russian-missile-hits-shopping-centre-ukraine-kremenchuk |website=The Guardian|location=London|date=27 June 2022|access-date=27 June 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Reactions ==<br />
The leaders of the [[Group of Seven|G7]] nations described the missile strike as an "abominable attack. We stand united with Ukraine in mourning the innocent victims", they said in a joint statement. "Indiscriminate attacks on innocent civilians constitute a [[war crime]]."<ref>{{cite news|last=Hughes|first=David|url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-kremenchuk-shopping-centre-war-crime-b2110814.html|title=Ukraine: Putin's attack on Kremenchuk shopping centre a 'war crime', world leaders say|website=The Independent|date=28 June 2022|access-date=28 June 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
US secretary of state [[Antony Blinken]] called the attack an "atrocity" and said, "The world is horrified by Russia's missile strike today, which hit a crowded Ukrainian shopping mall".<ref>{{cite news |last1=Olearchyk |first1=Roman |last2=Brower |first2=Derek |title=Russian missile strike on Ukraine shopping mall draws outcry |url=https://www.ft.com/content/ae925212-c363-439e-8b37-99ebd58cb960 |newspaper=Financial Times |date=27 June 2022 |publisher=The Financial Times Ltd |access-date=27 June 2022}}</ref> British Prime Minister [[Boris Johnson]] condemned the "cruelty and barbarism" of the attack and conveyed condolences to the civilians affected, also reaffirming support for Ukraine.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Hughes |first1=David |title=Boris Johnson condemns Putin's 'barbarism' after shopping centre missile strike |url=https://uk.news.yahoo.com/boris-johnson-condemns-putin-barbarism-170154406.html |access-date=27 June 2022 |work=[[Yahoo! News]] |date=27 June 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
Ukraine's Foreign Minister, [[Dmytro Kuleba]] tweeted that the attack was a disgrace to humanity and that Russia must face consequences in the form of more heavy arms to Ukraine and more sanctions against Russia.<ref name=":0">{{cite news |last=Picheta |first=Rob |date=June 27, 2022 |title=Russian airstrike hits busy shopping mall in central Ukraine |url=https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/27/europe/kremenchuk-shopping-mall-airstrike-ukraine-intl/index.html |access-date=2022-06-27 |website=CNN}}</ref><br />
<br />
Pro-Russian [[Telegram (software)|Telegram]] channels have spread multiple conflicting theories about the missile strike, including the claim that the missile was aimed at a car factory near the mall, that the mall was being used as a military equipment warehouse, or as a base of the [[Territorial Defense Forces (Ukraine)|Territorial Defense Forces]], and that the missile strike is a Ukrainian provocation involving the use of "canned bodies".<ref>{{Cite news|title=Российские военные ударили ракетами по торговому центру в Кременчуге |trans-title=Russian military fired rockets at a shopping center in Kremenchuk |url=https://www.moscowtimes.eu/2022/06/27/rossiiskie-voennie-udarili-po-torgovomu-tsentru-v-hode-raketnogo-obstrela-kremenchuga-a21707 |date=27 June 2022 |work=[[The Moscow Times]]|language=ru-RU}}</ref><br />
In the official Russian admission of responsibility, defence ministry spokesman [[Igor Konashenkov]] said on the following day: "The detonation of the munitions for western weaponry in storage led to a fire in a non-functioning shopping centre next to the factory."<ref name="Seddon2020628" /><br />
<br />
In the official Russian admission of responsibility, defense ministry spokesman [[Igor Konashenkov]] said on the following day: "The detonation of the munitions for western weaponry in storage led to a fire in a non-functioning shopping centre next to the factory."<ref name="Seddon2020628" /><br />
<br />
== See also ==<br />
* [[Kramatorsk railway station attack]]<br />
* [[Kyiv shopping centre bombing]]<br />
* [[Timeline of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine]]<br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
{{Reflist}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
{{Commons category-inline}}<br />
<br />
{{2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine}}<br />
{{Portal bar|Modern history|Russia|Ukraine|War}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:June 2022 events in Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:Attacks on buildings and structures in 2022]]<br />
[[Category:Attacks on buildings and structures in Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:Attacks on shopping malls]]<br />
[[Category:Mass murder in 2022]]<br />
[[Category:2020s building bombings]]<br />
[[Category:21st-century mass murder in Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:War crimes during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:Kremenchuk|2022 missile strike]]<br />
[[Category:History of Poltava Oblast]]<br />
[[Category:Airstrikes during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:Russian war crimes in Ukraine]]<br />
[[Category:June 2022 crimes in Europe]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryanair_Flight_4978&diff=1068425123Ryanair Flight 49782022-01-28T10:19:00Z<p>Hmm...: /* Incident */ edits in progress from ICAO report</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Short description|2021 aviation incident over Belarus}}<br />
{{Use dmy dates|date=June 2021}}<br />
{{Infobox aircraft occurrence<br />
| name = Ryanair Flight 4978<br />
| image = File:Ryanair B738 SP-RSM.png<br />
| width =<br />
| alt = <br />
| caption = SP-RSM, the aircraft involved, in January 2021<br />
| occurrence_type = Incident<br />
| date = {{start date|2021|05|23|df=y}}<br />
| summary = [[Forced landing]] and arrest of two passengers<br />
| site = [[Minsk National Airport]]<br />
| aircraft_type = [[Boeing 737 Next Generation|Boeing 737-8AS]]<br />
| aircraft_name = <br />
| operator = [[Buzz (Ryanair)|Buzz]] on behalf of [[Ryanair]]<br />
| IATA = FR4978<br />
| ICAO = RYR1TZ<br />
| callsign = RYANAIR 1 TANGO ZULU<br />
| tail_number = SP-RSM<br />
| origin = [[Athens International Airport]]<br />
| destination = [[Vilnius Airport]]<br />
| occupants = 132<br />
| passengers = 126<br />
| crew = 6<br />
| fatalities = 0<br />
| injuries = 0<br />
| missing = <br />
| survivors = 132<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''Ryanair Flight 4978''' was a regularly-scheduled international passenger flight from [[Athens International Airport]], [[Greece]], to [[Vilnius Airport]], [[Lithuania]], operated by the Polish subsidiary [[Buzz (Ryanair)|Buzz]]. On 23 May 2021, while in [[Belarus]]ian [[airspace]], it was diverted by the [[Belarusian government]] to [[Minsk National Airport]] where two of its passengers, opposition activist and journalist [[Roman Protasevich]] and his girlfriend Sofia Sapega, were arrested by authorities. The aircraft was allowed to depart after seven hours, reaching Vilnius eight and a half hours behind schedule.<br />
<br />
The act was condemned by the [[European Union]] (EU), [[NATO]], the United Kingdom, and the United States, among others, and by some civil aviation authorities, while Russian officials backed Belarus. The EU and the [[European Union Aviation Safety Agency]] issued directives halting European airlines from flying over Belarusian airspace.<br />
<br />
==Aircraft==<br />
The aircraft involved was a four-year-old [[Boeing 737 Next Generation#737-800|Boeing 737-800]], registered in [[Poland]], [[aircraft registration|registration]] SP-RSM.<ref name="FlightGlobal143868">{{Cite web|last=Kaminski-Morrow|first=David|title=Political leaders outraged as Belarus 'forces' Ryanair 737 diversion to Minsk|url=https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/political-leaders-outraged-as-belarus-forces-ryanair-737-diversion-to-minsk/143868.article|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523170341/https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/political-leaders-outraged-as-belarus-forces-ryanair-737-diversion-to-minsk/143868.article|archive-date=23 May 2021|publisher=Flight Global|accessdate=23 May 2021}}</ref> The aircraft entered service with Ryanair in May 2017, registered EI-FZX in [[Ireland]], and in November 2019 was transferred to Ryanair Sun (now [[Buzz (Ryanair)|Buzz]]) as SP-RSM on the Polish aircraft registry.<ref name="Jetphotos">{{cite web|title=SP-RSM Boeing 737-8AS - 44791, operated by Ryanair Sun|url=https://www.jetphotos.com/info/737-44791|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524054225/https://www.jetphotos.com/info/737-44791|archive-date=24 May 2021|publisher=Jetphotos|accessdate=24 May 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Incident==<br />
{{Update section|date=January 2022|reason=ICAO Fact-Finding Investigation report differs from these older accounts of incident}}<br />
<mapframe width=300 height=350 zoom=4 latitude=47.4 longitude=26.5 text="Approximate route of the flight, showing its diversion toward Minsk"><br />
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</mapframe><br />
<br />
On 23 May 2021, [[Ryanair]] Flight 4978 (Athens–Vilnius),<ref>{{cite news |title=Vilnius Airport flight timetable |url=https://www.vilnius-airport.lt/en/before-the-flight/flights-information/flights-schedule?direction=arrival&destination=ath |access-date=28 May 2021 |work=www.vilnius-airport.lt |language=en |archive-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195415/https://www.vilnius-airport.lt/en/before-the-flight/flights-information/flights-schedule?direction=arrival&destination=ath |url-status=live }}</ref> operated by the Polish subsidiary Buzz,<ref>{{Cite news |date=26 May 2021 |title=Minsk incident: Association Cockpit offers help to Buzz pilots |language=en |work=Aviation Direct |url=https://aviation.direct/en/minsk-incident-union-cockpit-offers-help-to-buzz-pilots |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195417/https://aviation.direct/en/minsk-incident-union-cockpit-offers-help-to-buzz-pilots |url-status=live }}</ref> a Boeing 737-800 carrying 6 crew members and 126 passengers,<ref name=Herald/> was diverted to Minsk National Airport after ground authorities reported a bomb on board, whilst the aircraft was {{convert|45|nmi|km mi}} south of Vilnius and {{convert|90|nmi|km mi}} west of [[Minsk]], but still in Belarusian airspace.<ref name=dw/><ref name=Herald/><ref name=ABC77859336/> <br />
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The ICAO report detailed an email that was received by in the generic mailbox [email protected] containing the following text at at 09:25:16 (12:25:16 local):<br />
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"We, Hamas soldiers, demand that Israel cease fire in the Gaza Strip. We demand that the European Union abandon its support for Israel in this war. We know that the participants of Delphi Economic Forum are returning home on May 23 via flight FR4978. A bomb was planted onto this aircraft. If you don’t meet our demands the bomb will explode on May 23 over Vilnius. Allahu Akbar."<br />
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This email was sent to a total of six recipients in separate emails to the airports of Minsk, Lithuania, Athens, Sofia, Bucharest and Kiev with the first five sent while FR4978 was flying over Ukrainian airspace immediately prior to entering Belarussian airspace. At Minsk, an automated alert triggered by pre-established keywords notified in real time the head of the systems admin of the Cybersecurity Unit responsible working for SearchInform via in-house software working remote. Two days prior to the flight, The Delphi Economic Forum took place in Athens from May 10th to 15th, 2021, and is reported that the flight contained at least one participant. At 12:27, the Deputy General Director for Security, Discipline and Personnel was notified via telephone who then contacted Minsk Air Traffic Control Center at 12:28. The Minsk Area Control Center Duty Supervisor cross references the flight with the call sign and flight plan and contacts the flight crew at 9:28:58.<br />
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According to the airline, its pilots were notified by Belarusian authorities of "a potential security threat on board" and were instructed to land the aircraft in Minsk.<ref name="nyt_23052021">{{cite news|last1=Troianovski|first1=Anton|last2=Nechepurenko|first2=Ivan|date=23 May 2021|title=Belarus Forces Down Plane to Seize Dissident; Europe Sees 'State Hijacking'|newspaper=The New York Times|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/23/world/europe/ryanair-belarus.html|url-status=live|access-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523235352/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/23/world/europe/ryanair-belarus.html|archive-date=23 May 2021}}</ref><ref name="bbc_24052021">{{cite news|date=24 May 2021|title=Ryanair plane: Western powers voice outrage at plane 'hijacking'|work=[[BBC News]]|url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57224452|url-status=live|access-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524032205/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57224452|archive-date=24 May 2021}}</ref> The aircraft had entered Belarusian airspace at 12:30, and the "bomb threat" was passed on by Belarusian [[air traffic control]] (ATC) immediately afterwards. At 12:33, air traffic control mentioned an e-mail from terrorists sent to the Minsk airport.<ref name=":0">{{Cite web|date=26 May 2021|title=Lukashenko's Crazy-Stupid Hamas Headfake|url=https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/lukashenkos-crazy-stupid-hamas-headfake/|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526210224/https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/lukashenkos-crazy-stupid-hamas-headfake/|archive-date=26 May 2021|access-date=26 May 2021|website=Newlines Magazine|language=en}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|others=In collaboration with [[The Daily Beast]] and [[Der Spiegel]]|title=Швейцарский ХАМАС. Нестыковки в "террористической" версии белорусских властей|trans-title=Swiss Hamas. Inconsistencies in the "terrorist" version of the Belarusian authorities|url=https://dossier.center/bel-hamas/|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526210225/https://dossier.center/bel-hamas/|archive-date=26 May 2021|access-date=26 May 2021|website=dossier.center|language=ru}}</ref> <br />
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According to air traffic transcripts, Minsk informed the flight crew that a bomb threat via email was received and that it detailed a bomb that would be activated over Vilnius was present on board. The flight crew attempted to contact Ryanair Operational Control Center (OCC) and Vilnus without success with the OCC in Dublin only being alerted at 9:48 following an alert on Flightradar24. The Duty Supervisor recommended diversion to Minsk, and following being provided a threat assessment of code red upon request by the flight crew by Minsk, the flight crew holds the plane and then declared MAYDAY at 9:47:12 and diverted to Minsk MSQ airport.<br />
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According to Ryanair CEO [[Michael O'Leary (businessman)|Michael O'Leary]], the pilots were told by Belarusian ATC that there was a bomb on board which would be detonated if the aircraft entered Lithuanian airspace, hence the need to divert to Minsk. O'Leary said that the pilots tried to seek advice from Ryanair but were lied to by Belarusian ATC, who told them company representatives were not answering the phone.<ref name="BBC57480835">{{cite news |url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57480835 |title=Belarus plane: Ryanair boss says pilot had no choice but to land in Minsk |work=BBC News |date=15 June 2021 |accessdate=15 June 2021 }}</ref> <br />
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The ICAO report detailed Minsk air traffic control contacting Vilnius air traffic control on behalf of the pilots for a Ryanair representative and was given the frequency for Litcargus, the ground handling service. When Minsk requested a specific contact for the airlines as this "issue does not concern engineering matters," Vilnius stated that they did not have such a frequency and that the pilots "should know themselves, how to make the contact." The pilots were provided the ground staff frequency and the pilots stated that they already had the frequency and that ground staff was not answer "we got that down, not answering."{{cn|date=January 2022}} According to the published guidelines in the Operational Flight Plan for Ryanair, the means to communicate with the Ryanair OCC was 131.750 corresponding to Litcargus, who can relay messages between aircraft in either direction. The standard operating procedure regarding emergencies is for the OCC to determine security risk.<br />
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According to his press service, Belarusian president Alexander Lukashenko personally ordered that the flight be re-directed to Minsk with a [[Belarusian Air Force]] [[MiG-29]] fighter escort.<ref name=dw/><ref name=PeopleOnliner230521>{{cite web |url=https://people.onliner.by/2021/05/23/na-bortu-samoleta-avarijno-posazhennogo-v-minske-byl-roman-protasevich |title=На борту самолета, экстренно посаженного в Минске, был Роман Протасевич |date=23 May 2021 |trans-title=Roman Protasevich was on board the plane urgently landed in Minsk |language=ru |publisher=People Onliner |accessdate=23 May 2021 |archive-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523123826/https://people.onliner.by/2021/05/23/na-bortu-samoleta-avarijno-posazhennogo-v-minske-byl-roman-protasevich |url-status=live }}</ref><ref name="Spring96-103499">{{cite web |date=23 May 2021 |title=У аэрапорце "Мінск" затрыманы блогера Раман Пратасевіч |trans-title=Blogger Raman Protasevich detained at Minsk airport |url=http://spring96.org/be/news/103499 |url-status=live |publisher=Spring 96 |language=be |accessdate=23 May 2021 |archive-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523123035/http://spring96.org/be/news/103499}}</ref> However the ICAO fact-finding task force later determined the MiG-29 was just tasked for communications back-up and to protect Minsk, and did not escort or intercept FR4978.<ref name=icao-202201/> The Belarusian government news agency [[BelTA]] said that the pilots had asked to land in Minsk.<ref name=Belta442580>{{cite web |url=https://www.belta.by/president/view/komandu-prinjat-v-minske-zaminirovannyj-samolet-ryanair-dal-lichno-lukashenko-442580-2021/?/2874 |title=Команду принять в Минске "заминированный" самолет Ryanair дал лично Лукашенко |date=23 May 2021 |trans-title=Lukashenka personally gave the command to receive the "mined" Ryanair plane in Minsk |language=be |publisher=BelTA |accessdate=23 May 2021 |archive-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523143807/https://www.belta.by/president/view/komandu-prinjat-v-minske-zaminirovannyj-samolet-ryanair-dal-lichno-lukashenko-442580-2021/?%2F2874 |url-status=live }}</ref><ref name=Kommersant4825832>{{cite web |url=https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4825832 |title=Основатель Nexta Протасевич задержан в аэропорту Минска |date=23 May 2021 |trans-title=Nexta founder Protasevich detained at Minsk airport |language=ru |publisher=Kommersant |accessdate=23 May 2021 |archive-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523120850/https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4825832 |url-status=live }}</ref> Both Ryanair and Belarusian law enforcement said that no bombs were found on board.<ref name=nyt_23052021/><ref name=bbc_24052021/><br />
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The flight course of FR4978 over Belarus on 23 May 2021 became unusual even before making the U-turn. Based on [[Flightradar24]] raw data, it was noted that the aircraft did not start to descend over Belarus, even though this is usually done in preparation for landing in Vilnius.<ref>{{Cite news |date=23 May 2021 |title=Экс-главреда телеграм-канала NEXTA Романа Протасевича задержали в Беларуси. Его рейс Афины — Вильнюс экстренно сел в Минске в сопровождении истребителя. Европа грозит Лукашенко расследованием и санкциями. Главное |language=ru |trans-title=Former editor-in-chief of the telegram channel NEXTA Roman Protasevich was detained in Belarus. His flight Athens–Vilnius urgently landed in Minsk, accompanied by a fighter. Europe threatens Lukashenka with investigation and sanctions |work=[[Novaya Gazeta]] |publication-place=Moscow |url=https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2021/05/23/soosnovatelia-telegram-kanala-nexta-protasevicha-zaderzhali-v-belarusi |url-status=live |access-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523153348/https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2021/05/23/soosnovatelia-telegram-kanala-nexta-protasevicha-zaderzhali-v-belarusi |archive-date=23 May 2021}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Kropman |first=Vitaly |date=23 May 2021 |title=В Ryanair заявили об указании Беларуси посадить самолет с Протасевичем в Минске |language=ru |trans-title=Ryanair issues instructions to Belarus to land plane with Protasevich in Minsk |work=[[Deutsche Welle]] |url=https://www.dw.com/ru/ryanair-zajavil-o-trebovanie-belarusi-posadit-samolet-v-minske/a-57637295 |url-status=live |access-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523204954/https://www.dw.com/ru/ryanair-zajavil-o-trebovanie-belarusi-posadit-samolet-v-minske/a-57637295 |archive-date=23 May 2021}}</ref><br />
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== Passengers ==<br />
[[File:Роман_Протасевич.jpg|thumb|[[Roman Protasevich]], the journalist and activist, was arrested after the forced landing in Minsk.]]<br />
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Upon landing in Minsk, the Belarusian opposition activist [[Roman Protasevich]] was removed from the aircraft and arrested on the grounds that he was listed on a Belarusian wanted list.<ref name="dw">{{cite web|title=Belarus opposition says government forced Ryanair plane to land to arrest journalist|date=23 May 2021|website=Deutsche Welle|access-date=23 May 2021|url=https://www.dw.com/en/belarus-opposition-says-government-forced-ryanair-plane-to-land-to-arrest-journalist/a-57635240|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523122730/https://www.dw.com/en/belarus-opposition-says-government-forced-ryanair-plane-to-land-to-arrest-journalist/a-57635240|url-status=live}}</ref><ref name="NN273349">{{cite web |url=https://nn.by/?c=ar&i=273349 |title=У аэрапорце Мінска, рэзка змяніўшы курс, прызямліўся самалёт Афіны—Вільня — на борце быў Раман Пратасевіч |trans-title=Athens-Vilnius plane landed at Minsk airport, abruptly changing course, Raman Protasevich on board |language=be |publisher=nn.by |accessdate=23 May 2021 |archive-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523121530/https://nn.by/?c=ar&i=273349 |url-status=live }}</ref> His girlfriend, Sofia Sapega, a Russian citizen, was also removed and detained without explanation.<ref name="RFE31270390">{{cite web|title=Belarus Faces Western Outrage Over Airliner 'Hijacking' To Detain Journalist|url=https://www.rferl.org/a/belarus-western-outrage-airliner-hijacking/31270390.html|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524083018/https://www.rferl.org/a/belarus-western-outrage-airliner-hijacking/31270390.html|archive-date=24 May 2021|publisher=Radio Free Europe|accessdate=24 May 2021}}</ref> The [[European Humanities University]] in Vilnius confirmed she was detained and demanded her release.<ref>{{cite web|last=Sytas|first=Andrius|date=24 May 2021|editor-last=Perry|editor-first=Michael|title=Vilnius university says its student travelling with Protasevich also detained, demands release|url=https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/vilnius-university-says-its-student-travelling-with-protasevich-also-detained-2021-05-24/|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524180816/https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/vilnius-university-says-its-student-travelling-with-protasevich-also-detained-2021-05-24/|archive-date=24 May 2021|access-date=24 May 2021|website=[[Reuters]]}}</ref> Sapega, facing three criminal charges "each of which carry sentences of between 3 and 15 years in prison", remained in custody for two months after her appeal was rejected.<ref>{{Cite news |title=Belarus reportedly deems Russian student Sofia Sapega a suspect in third criminal case |language=en |work=meduza |url=https://meduza.io/en/news/2021/05/27/belarus-reportedly-deems-russian-student-sofia-sapega-a-suspect-in-third-criminal-case |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=27 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210527155850/https://meduza.io/en/news/2021/05/27/belarus-reportedly-deems-russian-student-sofia-sapega-a-suspect-in-third-criminal-case |url-status=live }}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |url=https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/31/belarus-to-try-russian-citizen-detained-on-diverted-flight-a74054 |title=Belarus to Try Russian Citizen Detained on Diverted Flight |date=31 May 2021 |access-date=1 June 2021 |archive-date=1 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210601152219/https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/31/belarus-to-try-russian-citizen-detained-on-diverted-flight-a74054 |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
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Belarusian opposition leader [[Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya]] called for an investigation of the incident by the [[International Civil Aviation Organization]] (ICAO).<ref name="RFE31269351">{{cite web |url=https://www.rferl.org/a/belarus-raman-pratacevich-ryanair-false-bomb-threat/31269351.html |title=Belarusian Journalist Arrested After His Flight Diverted To Minsk After False Bomb Threat |publisher=Radio Free Europe |accessdate=23 May 2021 |archive-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523125749/https://www.rferl.org/a/belarus-raman-pratacevich-ryanair-false-bomb-threat/31269351.html |url-status=live }}</ref> Belarus had placed Protasevich on a list of "individuals involved in terrorist activity" the previous year for his role in [[2020–2021 Belarusian protests|anti-government protests]]. Tsikhanouskaya stated that Protasevich "faces the [[Capital punishment in Belarus|death penalty]]" in Belarus.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.dw.com/en/belarus-diverts-plane-to-arrest-journalist-says-opposition/a-57635240|title=Belarus diverts plane to arrest journalist, says opposition|website=Deutsche Welle|date=23 May 2021|access-date=23 May 2021|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523172128/https://www.dw.com/en/belarus-diverts-plane-to-arrest-journalist-says-opposition/a-57635240|url-status=live}}</ref> According to some passengers, Protasevich asked the cabin crew for [[Right of asylum|refuge]], but was refused because of Ryanair legal agreements.<ref name="POLITICO">{{cite news |author1=Nektaria Stamouli |author2=David M. Herszenhorn |title=Aboard the 'hijacked' plane to Minsk |url=https://www.politico.eu/article/on-board-a-hijacked-plane-to-minsk/ |access-date=25 May 2021 |work=POLITICO |date=24 May 2021 |archive-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195418/https://www.politico.eu/article/on-board-a-hijacked-plane-to-minsk/ |url-status=live }}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.newsweek.com/ryanair-passenger-instagrams-forced-belarus-landing-journalists-arrest-1594202|title=Ryanair passenger documents forced Belarus landing on Instagram|date=24 May 2021|website=Newsweek|access-date=25 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524170159/https://www.newsweek.com/ryanair-passenger-instagrams-forced-belarus-landing-journalists-arrest-1594202|url-status=live}}</ref> As he left the aircraft, Protasevich independently told another passenger that "the death penalty awaits me here".<ref>{{cite news |title=Belarus Ryanair flight diverted: Passengers describe panic on board |url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57180275 |access-date=24 May 2021 |work=BBC News |date=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524120009/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57180275 |url-status=live }}</ref> Another source said that Protasevich faced 15 years' imprisonment for his support of "terrorist groups" in Belarus.<ref name="RFE31270390"/><br />
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According to sources close to Tsikhanouskaya, Protasevich noticed that he was under surveillance at the Athens airport. In his messages, he said that a man next to him at the line and the checkpoint tried to take photos of his travel documents.<ref>{{Cite web |date=23 May 2021 |title=Θρίλερ με πτήση από Αθήνα: Η Λευκορωσία ανάγκασε αεροσκάφος να προσγειωθεί για να συλλάβει ακτιβιστή |trans-title=Thriller in flight from Athens: Belarus forces plane to land to arrest activist |url=https://www.efsyn.gr/kosmos/eyropi/295176_thriler-me-ptisi-apo-athina-i-leykorosia-anagkase-aeroskafos-na-prosgeiothei |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523223941/https://www.efsyn.gr/kosmos/eyropi/295176_thriler-me-ptisi-apo-athina-i-leykorosia-anagkase-aeroskafos-na-prosgeiothei |archive-date=23 May 2021 |access-date=24 May 2021 |website=Efimerida Ton Syntakton |language=el}}</ref> Additionally, Tadeusz Giczan, a member of the [[Nexta]] Telegram channel, which was previously edited by Protasevich, said that officers of the [[State Security Committee of the Republic of Belarus|KGB]] had been on the flight and had "[[Air rage|initiated a fight]] with the Ryanair crew", insisting that there was [[improvised explosive device|a bomb]] on board the aircraft.<ref name="afp_23052021">{{cite web|url=https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/23/eu-outrage-as-belarus-diverts-flight-arrests-opposition-activist-a73985|title=EU Outrage as Belarus Diverts Flight, Arrests Opposition Activist|website=The Moscow Times|date=23 May 2021|agency=AFP|access-date=23 May 2021|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523204156/https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/23/eu-outrage-as-belarus-diverts-flight-arrests-opposition-activist-a73985|url-status=live}}</ref><ref name="ABC77859336">{{cite news|first=Patrick|last=Reevell|title=Ryanair flight forced to land in Belarus with top activist on board|date=24 May 2021|website=ABCNews.go.com|url=https://abcnews.go.com/International/ryanair-flight-forced-land-belarus-top-activist-onboard/story?id=77859336|accessdate=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524032204/https://abcnews.go.com/International/ryanair-flight-forced-land-belarus-top-activist-onboard/story?id=77859336|url-status=live}}</ref> Lina Beišinė, spokeswoman for the Lithuanian Airports state enterprise, told [[Agence France-Presse|AFP]] that Minsk National Airport had said the flight was diverted "due to a conflict between a member of the crew and the passengers".<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.thejournal.ie/belarus-activist-detained-ryanair-plane-5445791-May2021/|title=Diverted Ryanair flight leaves Belarus for Lithuania after exiled activist detained|website=TheJournal.ie|access-date=27 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524130811/https://www.thejournal.ie/belarus-activist-detained-ryanair-plane-5445791-May2021/|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
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In addition to Roman Protasevich and Sofia Sapega, three passengers disembarked in Minsk, including two Belarusians and one Greek citizen.<ref name="greek">{{cite news |last1=Chrysoloras |first1=Nikos |title=Greek Scientist Stayed in Minsk After Forced Ryanair Landing |url=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-25/forced-landing-in-minsk-was-handy-says-passenger-who-stayed |work=Bloomberg |date=25 May 2021 |access-date=27 May 2021 |archive-date=27 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210527072625/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-25/forced-landing-in-minsk-was-handy-says-passenger-who-stayed |url-status=live }}</ref> Following speculation that the passengers were members of the [[State Security Committee of the Republic of Belarus|Belarusian KGB]], Belarusian state television aired a video of three people saying that they had chosen to stay in Minsk; one was a Greek man, who said he was travelling to Minsk anyway and would have otherwise taken a connecting flight from Vilnius to Minsk.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Troianovski |first1=Anton |title=Belarus Is Isolated as Other Countries Move to Ban Flights |url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/24/world/europe/belarus-flight-ban.html |work=The New York Times |date=24 May 2021 |access-date=25 May 2021 |archive-date=25 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210525043330/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/24/world/europe/belarus-flight-ban.html |url-status=live }}</ref> A Greek government official stated that an investigation had not indicated a connection between the Greek national and the incident.<ref name="greek" /> The other two passengers also said that they wanted to disembark in Minsk.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57239521|title=Belarus plane: What we know and what we don't|date=27 May 2021|work=BBC News|access-date=28 May 2021|archive-date=26 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526084205/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57239521|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
<br />
The aircraft was allowed to depart after 7&nbsp;hours on the ground in Minsk,<ref name="POLITICO" /> reaching Vilnius 8.5&nbsp;hours late.<ref name="Herald">{{cite web |url=http://avherald.com/h?article=4e7d7208&opt=0 |title=Incident: Ryanair Sun B738 near Minsk on May 23rd 2021, Greece calls diversion states hijack |first=Simon |last=Hradecky |publisher=The Aviation Herald |date=23 May 2021 |accessdate=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524000848/http://avherald.com/h?article=4e7d7208&opt=0 |url-status=live }}</ref> Passengers noted having to wait 2.5&nbsp;hours without water, toilet breaks or phone calls, while 50 to 60 Belarusian security officers at Minsk airport carried out a search that included checking the belly of the aircraft for bombs.<ref>{{cite web |title=How Belarus Snatched a Dissident Off a Ryanair Plane From Greece |url=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-24/how-belarus-snatched-a-dissident-off-a-ryanair-plane-from-greece |last1=Seputyte |first1=Milda |last2=Dendrinou |first2=Viktoria |date=23 May 2021 |access-date=24 May 2021 |via=bloomberg.com |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524010604/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-24/how-belarus-snatched-a-dissident-off-a-ryanair-plane-from-greece |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
<br />
==Aftermath==<br />
===Belarusian government===<br />
Following the incident, the Belarusian Ministry of Transport announced that it had set up a commission to investigate the forced landing, stating that it would notify the [[ICAO]] and [[IATA]] about the investigation's progress and publish a report shortly thereafter.<ref>{{Cite news |date=24 May 2021 |title=Belarus says it has set up commission to probe Ryanair incident |work=Reuters |url=https://www.reuters.com/article/belarus-politics-investigation-commissio-idUSR4N2N9015|access-date=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524134840/https://www.reuters.com/article/belarus-politics-investigation-commissio-idUSR4N2N9015|url-status=live}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|title=Belarus To Notify ICAO, IATA Of Readiness To Investigate Ryanair Incident - Minsk|url=https://www.urdupoint.com/en/world/belarus-to-notify-icao-iata-of-readiness-to-1258206.html|access-date=24 May 2021|website=UrduPoint|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524134842/https://www.urdupoint.com/en/world/belarus-to-notify-icao-iata-of-readiness-to-1258206.html|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
<br />
On 24 May 2021, the director of the Department of Aviation of the Ministry of Transport of Belarus, Artyom Sikorsky, read out an e-mail letter, which they said was sent to Minsk airport on 23&nbsp;May. This message, signed by "[[Hamas]] soldiers", included demands to [[Israel]] to "cease fire in the [[Gaza strip]]" and for the European Union to end its support of Israel. If the demands were not met, the Ryanair aircraft would be blown up over Vilnius, according to the e-mail.<ref name="onliner.pressconf2405">{{Cite web |last1=Спевак |first1=Дарья |last2=Прокопьева |first2=Ольга |last3=Ошуркевич |first3=Татьяна |date=24 May 2021 |title=Минтранс: сообщение о минировании самолета RyanAir пришло от ХАМАС |trans-title=Ministry of Transport: the message about the mining of the Ryanair plane came on behalf of Hamas |url=https://people.onliner.by/2021/05/24/departament-po-aviacii-zachital-soobshhenie-ob-ugroze-vzryva-samoleta-ryanair |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524143527/https://people.onliner.by/2021/05/24/departament-po-aviacii-zachital-soobshhenie-ob-ugroze-vzryva-samoleta-ryanair |archive-date=24 May 2021 |access-date=24 May 2021 |website=Onliner}}</ref> [[Chancellor of Germany]] [[Angela Merkel]] called the Belarusian explanation "completely implausible".<ref>{{cite web|title=Angela Merkel says Belarus' story 'completely implausible'|website=Deutsche Welle|date=24 May 2021|url=https://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkel-says-belarus-story-completely-implausible/a-57639025|access-date=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524173703/https://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkel-says-belarus-story-completely-implausible/a-57639025|url-status=live}}</ref> Hamas denied that it was in any way connected to the incident,<ref>{{cite news |title=Belarus points to Hamas bomb threat in plane diversion, Hamas rejects claim |url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/belarus-points-hamas-bomb-threat-plane-diversion-hamas-rejects-claim-2021-05-24/ |work=Reuters |date=24 May 2021 |access-date=25 May 2021 |archive-date=26 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526020344/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/belarus-points-hamas-bomb-threat-plane-diversion-hamas-rejects-claim-2021-05-24/ |url-status=live }}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=Hamas rejects Belarus claim over plane bomb threat |url=https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/24/hamas-rejects-belarus-claim-over-plane-bomb-threat |access-date=25 May 2021 |work=www.aljazeera.com |agency=Reuters |publisher=[[Al Jazeera]] |date=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524225138/https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/24/hamas-rejects-belarus-claim-over-plane-bomb-threat |url-status=live }}</ref> criticising the Belarusian government for "archaic thinking" in a world that "no longer accepts such methods".<ref>{{Cite web |last=Салов |first=Дмитрий |title=ХАМАС осудил заявления Минска о том, что движение угрожало взорвать самолёт |trans-title=Hamas condemned Minsk's statements that the movement threatened to blow up the plane |url=https://anna-news.info/hamas-osudil-zayavleniya-minska-o-tom-chto-dvizhenie-ugrozhalo-vzorvat-samolyot/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210527125211/https://anna-news.info/hamas-osudil-zayavleniya-minska-o-tom-chto-dvizhenie-ugrozhalo-vzorvat-samolyot/ |archive-date=27 May 2021 |access-date=27 May 2021 |website=anna-news.info |language=ru-RU}}</ref> Journalists discovered that the e-mail published by Belarusian authorities had been received at 12:57, 24&nbsp;minutes after Belarusian air traffic control notified the Ryanair flight of the bomb threat.<ref>{{Cite news|title=Purported bomb threat Belarus cited in plane interception was sent after flight diverted, e-mail provider says|language=en-US|work=Washington Post|url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/belarus-lukashenko-plane-email/2021/05/27/895b59d6-be5d-11eb-922a-c40c9774bc48_story.html|url-status=live|access-date=27 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210527192440/https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/belarus-lukashenko-plane-email/2021/05/27/895b59d6-be5d-11eb-922a-c40c9774bc48_story.html|archive-date=27 May 2021|issn=0190-8286}}</ref><br />
<br />
On 25 May 2021, the Belarusian Department of Aviation published its transcription of radio communications between Belarusian air traffic control and the FR4978 pilots.<ref name=transcript>{{cite web |url=http://caa.gov.by/ru/news-ru/view/1-203/ |title=RyanAir Emergency Landing Incident (including transcript of radio exchange) |website=Belarusian Department of Aviation |access-date=5 August 2021}}</ref> According to the transcript, the Belarusian flight operator originally told the pilots that they "have information from special services" about the bomb on board, later claiming that the "airport security {{sic|stuff|expected=staff}} informed they received e-mail". When the pilot asked whether it was Vilnius airport that received the e-mail, or Athens, the flight operator said that the bombing alert was received by "several airports". When the pilot asked whose recommendation it had been to land in Minsk, he was informed by the flight operator that it was "our recommendations". The transcript indicated that the pilot initially decided to circle at his present position, then later decided to divert to Minsk airport on the recommendation.<ref name=reuters-20210525>{{cite news |url=https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/they-say-code-is-red-transcript-controller-telling-plane-land-minsk-2021-05-25/ |title='They say code is red': transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk |author=Gabrielle Tétrault-farberAndrew Osborn |publisher=Reuters |date=25 May 2021 |access-date=11 June 2021}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Минтранс Беларуси опубликовал фрагмент переговоров пилота рейса Ryanair с диспетчерами |trans-title=The Ministry of Transport of Belarus publishes a fragment of the negotiations between the Ryanair flight pilot and the dispatchers |url=https://meduza.io/news/2021/05/25/mintrans-belarusi-opublikoval-fragment-peregovorov-pilota-reysa-ryanair-s-dispetcherami |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526122808/https://meduza.io/news/2021/05/25/mintrans-belarusi-opublikoval-fragment-peregovorov-pilota-reysa-ryanair-s-dispetcherami |archive-date=26 May 2021 |access-date=25 May 2021 |website=Meduza |language=ru}}</ref> As of 25&nbsp;May 2021, this transcript could not be confirmed by independent parties.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Khurshudyan |first1=Isabelle |last2=Birnbaum |first2=Michael |last3=Ilyushina |first3=Mary |title=Airlines shun Belarusian airspace, deepening Lukashenko's isolation over bomb hoax to arrest critic |url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/25/belarus-roman-airlines-updates-europe/ |access-date=26 May 2021 |work=Washington Post |date=25 May 2021 |archive-date=26 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526122754/https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/25/belarus-roman-airlines-updates-europe/ |url-status=live }}</ref> According to the [[Wall Street Journal]], Ryanair [[Chief executive officer|CEO]] [[Michael O'Leary (businessman)|Michael O'Leary]] rejected the version of events made by Belarusian government officials and called the situation a "premeditated hijacking".<ref name=wsj1>{{Cite news|url=https://www.wsj.com/articles/ryanair-ceo-calls-belarus-flight-diversion-a-premeditated-hijacking-11622142195|title=WSJ News Exclusive &#124; Ryanair CEO Calls Belarus Flight Diversion a 'Premeditated Hijacking'|first=Benjamin Katz and Daniel|last=Michaels|date=27 May 2021|work=The Wall Street Journal|access-date=28 May 2021|archive-date=28 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210528100011/https://www.wsj.com/articles/ryanair-ceo-calls-belarus-flight-diversion-a-premeditated-hijacking-11622142195|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
<br />
On 26 May 2021, Lukashenko made his first remarks about the incident in a speech to the Belarusian parliament. He said that he acted "legally" and claimed that "ill-wishers from outside the country and from inside the country changed their methods of attack on the state", referring to it as "[[Hybrid warfare|hybrid war]]". He also accused Protasevich of planning a "bloody rebellion", without giving details.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/defiant-belarus-leader-accuses-west-waging-hybrid-war-2021-05-26/|title=Belarus leader says detained journalist was plotting 'bloody rebellion'|website=Reuters|date=26 May 2021|access-date=26 May 2021|archive-date=26 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526201835/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/defiant-belarus-leader-accuses-west-waging-hybrid-war-2021-05-26/|url-status=live}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/26/lukashenko-defends-legal-plane-diversion-to-belarus-kremlin-backs-him-a74013|title=Lukashenko Defends 'Legal' Plane Diversion to Belarus, Kremlin Backs Him|website=The Moscow Times|date=26 May 2021|access-date=26 May 2021|archive-date=26 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526201835/https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/26/lukashenko-defends-legal-plane-diversion-to-belarus-kremlin-backs-him-a74013|url-status=live}}</ref> Lukashenko added that the bomb threat had come from Switzerland; however, the Swiss government said it had no knowledge of any bomb threat on the flight.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.reuters.com/article/belarus-politics-swiss/swiss-govt-says-unaware-of-any-bomb-threat-that-forced-jet-to-land-in-belarus-idUSZ8N2K802A|title=Swiss gov't says unaware of any bomb threat that forced jet to land in Belarus|website=Reuters|date=26 May 2021|access-date=26 May 2021|archive-date=26 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526205719/https://www.reuters.com/article/belarus-politics-swiss/swiss-govt-says-unaware-of-any-bomb-threat-that-forced-jet-to-land-in-belarus-idUSZ8N2K802A|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
<br />
===EU economic sanctions===<br />
The Lithuanian [[Šimonytė Cabinet|cabinet]] banned all flights to and from Lithuania flying through Belarusian airspace, effective 00:00 [[Greenwich Mean Time|GMT]], 25&nbsp;May (03:00 [[Eastern European Summer Time|EEST]]).<ref>{{cite news|date=24 May 2021|title=Lithuania bars airport access to carriers flying over Belarus|url=https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1416413/lithuania-bars-airport-access-to-carriers-flying-over-belarus|publisher=[[Lithuanian National Radio and Television|LRT]]|accessdate=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524122803/https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1416413/lithuania-bars-airport-access-to-carriers-flying-over-belarus|url-status=live}}</ref> British transport secretary [[Grant Shapps]] instructed the [[Civil Aviation Authority (United Kingdom)|Civil Aviation Authority]] to request that British airlines avoid Belarusian airspace. [[Belavia]] had been flying into [[Gatwick Airport]] prior to the incident.<ref name=ITV240521>{{cite news|url=https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-24/uk-condemns-belarus-for-flight-ruse-that-led-to-journalists-arrest-and-threatens-further-sanctions|title=UK tells airlines to avoid Belarusian airspace after flight diversion led to journalist's arrest|date=24 May 2021|publisher=ITV News|accessdate=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524092459/https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-24/uk-condemns-belarus-for-flight-ruse-that-led-to-journalists-arrest-and-threatens-further-sanctions|url-status=live}}</ref> Ukrainian president [[Volodymyr Zelensky]] instructed the government to halt air traffic with Belarus.<ref>{{cite news|url=https://www.unian.info/politics/zelensky-orders-halt-to-air-traffic-with-belarusv-11431084.html|title=Zelensky orders halt to air traffic with Belarus|publisher=Unian|date=24 May 2021|access-date=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524160232/https://www.unian.info/politics/zelensky-orders-halt-to-air-traffic-with-belarusv-11431084.html|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
<br />
The EU held a meeting of leaders on 24 May 2021 in [[Brussels]], Belgium. Before the meeting, Lithuanian President [[Gitanas Nausėda]] called for the EU to impose fresh economic sanctions on Belarus. Calls were made by eight countries for flights over and to Belarus to be banned. Another suggestion was that ground traffic be banned from entering the EU from Belarus.<ref name="BBC57224452">{{cite news|title=Western powers voice outrage as Belarus accused of hijacking plane|publisher=BBC News|url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57224452|accessdate=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524030856/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57224452|url-status=live}}</ref><ref name="Reuters240521"/> At the meeting, it was agreed upon to prohibit EU-based airlines from flying through Belarusian airspace, [[List of air carriers banned in the European Union|ban Belarusian carriers from flying into EU airspace]], and to implement a fresh round of sanctions.<ref>{{cite news|access-date=25 May 2021|title=EU leaders agree on Belarus sanctions after plane diversion|url=https://apnews.com/article/belarus-plane-pratasevich-lukashenko-a9d32d02caea49c880ed1b7a5872e5f7|date=24 May 2021|publisher=AP NEWS|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524202013/https://apnews.com/article/belarus-plane-pratasevich-lukashenko-a9d32d02caea49c880ed1b7a5872e5f7|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
<br />
On 26 May 2021, the European Union and the [[EU Aviation Safety Agency]] issued directives formally halting European airlines from flying over Belarusian airspace.<ref name="Buckley"/> The U.S. and the EU announced plans to impose punitive sanctions targeting key members of Lukashenko's government.<ref name="sanctions">{{cite news|date=29 May 2021|title=US to work with EU on targeted sanctions for Belarus|publisher=France 24|url=https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210529-us-to-work-with-eu-on-targeted-sanctions-for-belarus|access-date=2 June 2021|archive-date=31 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210531094220/https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210529-us-to-work-with-eu-on-targeted-sanctions-for-belarus|url-status=live}}</ref> In early June, Germany briefly stopped issuing flight permits to airlines from Russia for flights to Germany, after two [[Lufthansa]] flights were not issued permits to fly into Russia.<ref>{{cite news|url=https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/02/germany-russia-flights-resume-after-tit-for-tat-cancellations-a74089|newspaper=The Moscow Times|title=Germany-Russia Flights Resume After Tit-for-Tat Cancellations|date=2 June 2021|access-date=3 June 2021|archive-date=2 June 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195419/https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/02/germany-blocks-incoming-russian-flights-in-tit-for-tat-action-a74089|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
<br />
On 4 June 2021, the European Union banned Belarus airlines from its airspace along with other economic sanctions.<ref>{{cite news|title=The EU Bans Belarus Airlines And Reroutes Flights Around Its Airspace|url=https://www.npr.org/2021/06/04/1003173750/eu-bans-belarus-airlines-and-reroutes-flights-around-its-airspace|access-date=4 June 2021|publisher=NPR}}</ref><ref>{{cite news|date=4 June 2021|title=EU bans Belarus airlines as opposition urges G7 sanctions|url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-ban-belarus-overflights-midnight-diplomats-say-2021-06-04/|access-date=4 June 2021|publisher=Reuters}}</ref> On 9&nbsp;June 2021, the United States government announced it would implement new sanctions on Belarus.<ref>{{cite news|last=Hansler|first=Jennifer|date=9 June 2021|title=US Ambassador to Belarus says new sanctions are coming 'soon'|publisher=CNN|url=https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/09/politics/us-ambassador-belarus-sanctions/index.html|url-status=live|access-date=10 June 2021}}</ref> The United States, European Union, United Kingdom and Canada issued a joint statement on 21&nbsp;June 2021 announcing further sanctions against members and supporters of the Belarusian government, as well as Belarusian [[State-owned enterprise|state-owned companies]]. These included individual travel bans, asset freezes and other sanctions.<ref>{{cite news|title=West hits Belarus with new sanctions over Ryanair 'piracy'|url=https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/west-hits-belarus-with-new-sanctions-over-ryanair-piracy/ar-AALhaqr|url-status=dead|publisher=Reuters {{smaller|(via MSN)}}|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210624203433/https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/west-hits-belarus-with-new-sanctions-over-ryanair-piracy/ar-AALhaqr|archive-date=24 June 2021}}</ref> Further measures taken were EU [[Dual-use technology|dual-use]] goods and technology export bans to Belarus, as well as trade bans on petroleum products, [[potassium chloride]] for the Belarusian [[potash]] industry, and goods used for the production of tobacco products.<ref>{{cite web |title=EU imposes sanctions on Belarusian economy |url=https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021/06/24/eu-imposes-sanctions-on-belarusian-economy/ |publisher=Council of the EU |access-date=18 November 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
Following the EU sanctions, Belarus was accused by Lithuania of instigating the [[2021 Lithuanian migrant crisis]].<ref name="nytimes-lit-migration-crisis">{{cite news|title=In Lithuania, Migrants Find Themselves Caught in a Geopolitical Battle|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/19/world/europe/lithuania-belarus-migrants-european-union.html|first=Valerie|last=Hopkins|date=19 July 2021|accessdate=2 August 2021|newspaper=The New York Times}}</ref><br />
<br />
In early November 2021, a head of Department of Aviation of Belarus Ministry of Transport and Communications Artem Sikorsky stated that the EU sanctions cost the country about $10 million in lost opportunities every month. Sikorsky called on Russia and other [[Eurasian Economic Union|Eurasian Union]] members to respond collectively on aviation extremism from Western countries and to accelerate the creation of a unified aviation administration of all Eurasian countries. During the same press conference he recalled the intention to challenge the EU sanctions in international courts.<ref>{{Cite web|title=Минтранс Белоруссии ответит западным партнёрам на «авиационный экстремизм»|url=https://regnum.ru/news/polit/3415135.html|access-date=2021-11-11|website=ИА REGNUM|language=ru}}</ref><br />
<br />
===International Civil Aviation Organization===<br />
On 27 May 2021, the ICAO Council expressed strong concern about the apparent forced diversion and requested the ICAO Secretariat to undertake a fact-finding investigation under Article&nbsp;55 of the [[Chicago Convention]] for a future session of the council.<ref name=ainonline-20210528>{{cite news |url=https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2021-05-28/icao-council-agrees-investigation-belarus-incident |title=ICAO Council Agrees to Investigation Into Belarus Incident |last=Alcock |first=Charles |website=Aviation International News |date=28 May 2021 |access-date=9 June 2021}}</ref><ref name=internationalairportreview-20210602>{{cite news |url=https://www.internationalairportreview.com/news/159820/icao-investigation-ryanair-flight-fr4978/ |title=ICAO Council to launch an investigation into the apparent forced diversion of Ryanair Flight FR4978 |website=International Airport Review |publisher=Russell Publishing |date=2 June 2021 |access-date=9 June 2021}}</ref><ref name=icao-20210616>{{cite web |url=https://www.icao.int/Newsroom/Pages/Update-on-factfinding-investigation-into-Ryanair-flight-FR4978.aspx |title=Update on fact-finding investigation into Ryanair flight FR4978 |website=International Civil Aviation Organization |date=16 June 2021 |access-date=5 August 2021}}</ref> In November 2021, ICAO announced that the investigation report had been delayed until January 2022, due to the "volume of data submitted and additional state clarifications still being required".<ref name=afp-20211109>{{cite news |url=https://news.yahoo.com/un-delays-report-belarus-flight-143327262.html |title=UN delays report on Belarus flight rerouting to arrest journalist |publisher=Yahoo |agency=AFP |date=9 November 2021 |access-date=11 November 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
On 17 January 2022, ICAO published the fact-finding report for discussion at an ICAO Council meeting on 31 January.<ref name=icao-20220117>{{cite web |url=https://www.icao.int/Newsroom/Pages/ICAO-releases-factfinding-report-on-Ryanair-FR4978.aspx |title=ICAO releases fact-finding report on Ryanair FR4978 |website=ICAO |date=17 January 2022 |access-date=27 January 2022}}</ref><ref name=icao-202201>{{cite web |url=https://www.politico.eu/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/19/ICAO-Fact-Finding-Investigation-Report_FR497849.pdf |title=Event involving Ryanair Flight FR4978 in Belarus airspace on 23 May 2021 |website=ICAO |date=January 2022 |access-date=27 January 2022}}</ref> The report concluding that the bomb threat was "deliberately false", but could not "attribute the commission of this act of unlawful interference to any individual or State".<ref>{{cite web|title=UN agency report: Bomb threat on Ryanair flight diverted to Belarus ‘deliberately false’|url=https://www.politico.eu/article/un-agency-report-bomb-threat-ryanair-flight-diverted-belarus-deliberately-false/|date=19 January 2022|access-date=19 January 2022|publisher=Politico Europe|first=Mari|last=Eccles}}</ref><br />
<br />
===Russian government===<br />
As Russian aviation authorities did not approve some new routes avoiding Belarus, Air France and Austrian Airlines had to cancel flights from Paris to Moscow on 26&nbsp;May and from Vienna to Moscow on 27&nbsp;May, while several other European carriers, including KLM and a British Airways cargo flight, were allowed to land in Russia using new routes.<ref>{{Cite web|url= https://www.ft.com/content/5c4d07ca-8d15-4a92-9b71-72c83738cdcc|title= Two airlines cancel Moscow flights as EU discusses Belarus sanctions|work= Financial Times|date= 28 May 2021|access-date= 28 May 2021|archive-date= 28 May 2021|archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20210528015745/https://www.ft.com/content/5c4d07ca-8d15-4a92-9b71-72c83738cdcc|url-status= live}}</ref> On 28&nbsp;May 2021, Kremlin spokesman [[Dmitry Peskov]] asserted that "the problems were purely technical in nature, and that the issue should not become an additional irritant in Russia's relations with the European Union".<ref>{{Cite news |date=28 May 2021 |title=Moscow tells airlines to expect delays on Europe-Russia flights |language=en |work=Reuters |url=https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russian-aviation-authority-tells-airlines-expect-delays-europe-russia-flights-2021-05-28/ |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=1 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210601175512/https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russian-aviation-authority-tells-airlines-expect-delays-europe-russia-flights-2021-05-28/ |url-status=live }}</ref> On 1&nbsp;June, Lufthansa was forced to cancel flights to Moscow because authorisations were not received on time, prompting the German government to retaliate by denying Russian airlines access to its airspace.<ref>{{cite news |title=In tit-for-tat move, Germany blocks Russian airlines |url=https://www.seattletimes.com/business/in-tit-for-tat-move-germany-blocks-russian-airlines/ |work=The Seattle Times |agency=Associated Press |date=2 June 2021 |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195432/https://www.seattletimes.com/business/in-tit-for-tat-move-germany-blocks-russian-airlines/ |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
<br />
===Legal investigation===<br />
On 23 May 2021, the Lithuanian [[public prosecutor's office]] opened a pre-trial investigation under the Criminal Code articles of "Hijacking an Aircraft" and "Treatment of Persons Prohibited under International Law".<ref>{{Cite web |last1=Damulytė |first1=Jūratė |last2=Stankevičius |first2=Augustas |last3=Meilutis |first3=Margiris |date=23 May 2021 |title=Generalinė prokuratūra pradėjo ikiteisminį tyrimą dėl orlaivio užgrobimo |trans-title=The Prosecutor General's Office has launched a pre-trial investigation into the hijacking of the aircraft |url=https://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/generaline-prokuratura-pradejo-ikiteismini-tyrima-del-orlaivio-uzgrobimo.d?id=87268825 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524051633/https://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/generaline-prokuratura-pradejo-ikiteismini-tyrima-del-orlaivio-uzgrobimo.d?id=87268825 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |website=[[Delfi (web portal)|Delfi]] |language=lt |accessdate=27 May 2021}}</ref> Because the aircraft is registered in Poland and is subject to Polish law, on 24&nbsp;May 2021, the [[Public Prosecutor General (Poland)|Prosecutor General of Poland]] ordered the opening of an investigation into the case.<ref>{{Cite web |date=24 May 2021 |title=Prokuratura Krajowa potwierdza: Ziobro nakazał wszcząć śledztwo ws. samolotu Ryanair |trans-title=The National Prosecutor's Office confirms: Ziobro ordered an investigation into the Ryanair plane |url=https://www.wprost.pl/kraj/10449975/bialorus-przechwycenie-samolotu-ryanair-bedzie-sledztwo-prokuratury.html |access-date=26 May 2021 |website=Wprost |language=pl |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524140452/https://www.wprost.pl/kraj/10449975/bialorus-przechwycenie-samolotu-ryanair-bedzie-sledztwo-prokuratury.html |url-status=live }}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=24 May 2021 |title=Polski Prokurator Generalny polecił wszcząć śledztwo ws. lądowania samolotu Ryanair w Mińsku |trans-title=The Polish Prosecutor General ordered an investigation into the landing of the Ryanair plane in Minsk |url=https://www.bankier.pl/wiadomosc/Polski-Prokurator-Generalny-polecil-wszczac-sledztwo-ws-ladowania-samolotu-Ryanair-w-Minsku-8118796.html |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526122742/https://www.bankier.pl/wiadomosc/Polski-Prokurator-Generalny-polecil-wszczac-sledztwo-ws-ladowania-samolotu-Ryanair-w-Minsku-8118796.html |archive-date=26 May 2021 |access-date=25 May 2021 |website=Bankier.pl |language=pl}}</ref> On 14&nbsp;June, Protasevich appeared at a press conference, in which Chief of the Belarus Air Force Igor Golub claimed that there was "no interception, no forced diversion from the state border or forced landing of the Ryanair plane". A [[BBC]] journalist present at the conference stated that Protasevich was clearly there under duress.<ref name=BBC57480835/> Since there were four Americans on board the plane, the [[FBI]] investigated the incident, and on 20 January 2022, the [[United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York]] charged four Belarusian officials with conspiracy to commit aircraft piracy. The officials charged have not been arrested.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Weiser |first1=Benjamin |title=U.S. Charges 4 Belarus Officials With Piracy in Forced Landing of Jet |url=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/20/nyregion/ryanair-belarus.html |access-date=21 January 2022 |work=The New York Times |date=20 January 2022}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Reactions==<br />
<br />
The act was denounced by the United States, United Kingdom, European Union, NATO, and some civil aviation authorities as an act of [[air piracy]] and [[state terrorism]]; a violation of [[international law]], including the [[Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation]]; and an infringement of basic [[human rights]] by an [[authoritarian]] regime.<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-belarus-grounding-of-ryanair-flight-broke-international-law/ar-AAKkkTv|title=Why Belarus Grounding of Ryanair Flight Broke International Law|website=www.msn.com|access-date=30 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524145120/https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-belarus-grounding-of-ryanair-flight-broke-international-law/ar-AAKkkTv|url-status=live}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |date=26 May 2021 |title=Belarus And The Diversion Of Ryanair Flight 4978 |language=en |work=Radio Free Europe |url=https://www.rferl.org/a/diversion-flight-belarus/31274157.html |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=1 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210601073959/https://www.rferl.org/a/diversion-flight-belarus/31274157.html |url-status=live }}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/roman-protasevich-the-young-dissident-who-belarus-diverted-a-ryanair-flight-to-arrest/ar-AAKkHJD|title=Roman Protasevich: The young dissident who Belarus diverted a Ryanair flight to arrest|website=www.msn.com|access-date=30 May 2021|archive-date=25 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210525021536/http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/roman-protasevich-the-young-dissident-who-belarus-diverted-a-ryanair-flight-to-arrest/ar-AAKkHJD|url-status=live}}</ref><ref name="Buckley">{{Cite news |last=Buckley |first=Julia |date=31 May 2021 |title=How Belarus 'hijacking' has redrawn Europe's air map |language=en |work=CNN |url=https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/belarus-flight-ban-aviation-europe/index.html |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=31 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210531002307/https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/belarus-flight-ban-aviation-europe/index.html |url-status=live }}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Suliman |first=Adela |date=4 May 2021 |title=Belarus faces international fury after using fighter jet to land airliner, seize journalist |language=en |work=NBC News |url=https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/belarus-facing-global-fury-after-plane-carrying-opposition-journalist-forced-n1268294 |url-status=live |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210601100021/https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/belarus-facing-global-fury-after-plane-carrying-opposition-journalist-forced-n1268294 |archive-date=1 June 2021}}</ref><ref>{{Cite magazine |last=Applebaum |first=Anne |date=24 May 2021 |title=Other Regimes Will Hijack Planes Too |url=https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/05/belarus-lukashenko-hijack-plane-precedent-dictators/618971/ |url-status=live |magazine=The Atlantic |language=en |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210531182112/https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/05/belarus-lukashenko-hijack-plane-precedent-dictators/618971/ |archive-date=31 May 2021 |access-date=2 June 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
===National===<br />
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* {{flagicon|Australia}} Australia's [[Minister of Foreign Affairs (Australia)|Foreign Affairs Minister]] [[Marise Payne]] condemned the "forced military interception" of a civilian aircraft and called for the "immediate release" of the arrested Belarusian opposition figure.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.9news.com.au/world/belarus-activist-arrested-after-fighter-jet-intercepts-his-ryanair-flight/72200f04-3b1d-4b4e-97a5-0b61493a6409|title=Australia calls for political activist's release after plane intercepted in Belarus|date=24 May 2021|accessdate=24 May 2021|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523182227/https://www.9news.com.au/world/belarus-activist-arrested-after-fighter-jet-intercepts-his-ryanair-flight/72200f04-3b1d-4b4e-97a5-0b61493a6409|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Belgium}} Belgium's Prime Minister [[Alexander De Croo]] advocated for sanctions, "including banning Belavia from landing at EU airports", and stated that "Roman Protasevich must be immediately released".<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/eu-affairs/170687/belavia-roman-protassevitch-de-croo-calls-to-ban-belarus-airline-from-landing-in-the-eu/|title=De Croo calls to ban Belarus airline from landing in the EU|date=24 May 2021|accessdate=25 May 2021|publisher=[[The Brussels Times]]|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524073642/https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/eu-affairs/170687/belavia-roman-protassevitch-de-croo-calls-to-ban-belarus-airline-from-landing-in-the-eu/|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Canada}} Canada's [[Minister of Foreign Affairs (Canada)|Foreign Affairs Minister]] [[Marc Garneau]] said that the incident was "a serious interference in civil aviation and a clear attack on media freedom".<ref name="AP23May21">{{cite web|url= https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/belarus-arrests-critic-divert-flight-raman-pratasevich-1.6038279|title= Belarus diverts prominent critic's flight, arrests him upon landing|access-date= 15 May 2021|author= The Associated Press|author-link= The Associated Press|work= [[CBC News]]|date= 23 May 2021|archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20210524002230/https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/belarus-arrests-critic-divert-flight-raman-pratasevich-1.6038279|archive-date= 24 May 2021|url-status= live}}</ref> Canadian [[Prime Minister of Canada|Prime Minister]] [[Justin Trudeau]] stated: "the behaviour of the Belarus regime is outrageous, illegal and completely unacceptable... we also condemn this kind of dangerous interference in civil aviation. Canada has existing sanctions in place against Belarus and will be examining further options."<ref name="TR25May2021">{{cite web|url= https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/belarus-roman-protasevich-reaction-1.6039120|title= Belarus will face 'consequences' after flight diverted, journalist pulled from plane|access-date= 15 May 2021|author= Thomson Reuters|author-link= Thomson Reuters|work= CBC News|date= 25 May 2021|archive-url= https://archive.today/20210525183007/https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/belarus-roman-protasevich-reaction-1.6039120?cmp=rss|archive-date= 25 May 2021|url-status= live}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|China}} [[Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs]] spokesman [[Zhao Lijian]] said on 25&nbsp;May 2021: "The facts about the relevant incident [are] not yet clear. Before getting to the bottom of facts and truth, relevant sides should exercise restraint and avoid an escalation of the situation."<ref>{{Cite web|url= https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/t1878445.shtml|title= Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Zhao Lijian's Regular Press Conference on May 25, 2021|date= 25 May 2021|work= Ministry of Foreign Affairs of China|access-date= 26 May 2021|archive-date= 26 May 2021|archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20210526122810/https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/t1878445.shtml|url-status= live}}</ref> On 27&nbsp;May, [[Austrian Airlines]] cancelled a cargo flight from Vienna to Nanjing, because Chinese authorities did not approve the new route avoiding Belarus. A freighter scheduled to go from Nanjing to Vienna on 28&nbsp;May was also cancelled due to the same reason.<ref>{{Cite web |date=28 May 2021 |title=Keine Genehmigung für AUA-Flug nach Moskau |trans-title=No authorization for AUA flight to Moscow |url=https://wien.orf.at/stories/3105757/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210527155755/https://wien.orf.at/stories/3105757/ |archive-date=27 May 2021 |access-date=28 May 2021 |website=ORF.at |language=de}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Greece}} Greek Prime Minister [[Kyriakos Mitsotakis]], from whose country the Ryanair flight originated, described the forced landing of the aircraft as a "shocking act" and said that political pressure on Belarus must be stepped up.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1161644/mitsotakis-ryanair-forced-landing-a-shocking-act/|title=Mitsotakis: Ryanair forced landing a 'shocking act'|website=Kathimerini|date=23 May 2021|access-date=24 May 2021|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523222127/https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1161644/mitsotakis-ryanair-forced-landing-a-shocking-act/|url-status=live}}</ref> Greek Foreign Minister [[Nikos Dendias]] described the event as a "state-sponsored abduction".<ref name=Herald/><br />
* {{flagicon|Hungary}} Hungarian Minister of Foreign Affairs [[Péter Szijjártó]] said that forcing a commercial airliner to land “without any reason whatsoever” was “unacceptable, especially since the airliner in question was travelling between two European Union countries”.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Vaski |first1=Tamás |title=Hungary Supports Belarus' Ban from EU Airspace Over Ryanair Hijacking |url=https://hungarytoday.hu/hungary-belarus-ban-european-union/ |access-date=26 May 2021 |work=Hungary Today |date=25 May 2021 |archive-date=25 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210525160541/https://hungarytoday.hu/hungary-belarus-ban-european-union/ |url-status=live}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Ireland}} Irish [[Taoiseach]] [[Micheál Martin]] described the incident as "a state-sponsored coercive act" and "piracy in the skies".<ref>{{cite news |last1=Clarke |first1=Vivienne |last2=Leahy |first2=Pat |title=Taoiseach says forced landing of Ryanair flight in Belarus is 'piracy in the skies' |url=https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/taoiseach-says-forced-landing-of-ryanair-flight-in-belarus-is-piracy-in-the-skies-1.4573345 |access-date=24 May 2021 |work=The Irish Times |date=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524110959/https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/taoiseach-says-forced-landing-of-ryanair-flight-in-belarus-is-piracy-in-the-skies-1.4573345 |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Italy}} Italian foreign minister [[Luigi Di Maio]] said that the move was "unacceptable" and "a state hijacking". He said that he expected the [[High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy|EU's foreign policy chief]] [[Josep Borrell]] to discuss the matter with NATO Secretary General [[Jens Stoltenberg]]: "It is clear that this is not only a European question but a question of the alliance of values that we share with many of our allies, including overseas."<ref>{{cite web |title=Italy summons Belarus diplomat over 'state hijacking' of Ryanair plane |date=24 May 2021 |url=https://www.thelocal.it/20210524/italys-foreign-minister-condemns-belarus-state-hijacking-of-ryanair-plane/?amp |access-date=25 May 2021 |archive-date=26 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526122805/https://www.thelocal.it/20210524/italys-foreign-minister-condemns-belarus-state-hijacking-of-ryanair-plane/?amp |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Latvia}} Latvian Foreign Minister [[Edgars Rinkēvičs]] described the incident as "contrary to international law" and said that the reaction should be "strong and effective".<ref name=BBC57219860/> On 24&nbsp;May, Latvia expelled Belarus's diplomats in retaliation for Belarus expelling Latvia's staff ([[2021 IIHF World Championship#Belarus flag controversy|IIHF Belarus flag controversy]]).<ref name=BBC57233134>{{cite web |url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-57233134 |title=Belarus flight stop is an international scandal - EU |publisher=BBC News Online |accessdate=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524153613/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-57233134 |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Lithuania}} Lithuanian President [[Gitanas Nausėda]] accused Belarusian authorities of carrying out an "abhorrent action".<ref name=BBC57219860>{{cite news|date=23 May 2021|title=Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', says opposition|url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57219860|work=BBC News|access-date=23 May 2021|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523174629/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57219860|url-status=live}}</ref> He also said: "I call on NATO and [[EU]] allies to immediately react to the threat posed to international civil aviation by the Belarus regime. The international community must take immediate steps that this does not repeat".<ref>{{cite web|date=23 May 2021|title=Belarus forces Ryanair plane bound for Vilnius to land, infuriating Lithuania|url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/belarus-forces-vilnius-bound-ryanair-plane-land-detain-blogger-2021-05-23/|website=Reuters|access-date=23 May 2021|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523175216/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/belarus-forces-vilnius-bound-ryanair-plane-land-detain-blogger-2021-05-23/|url-status=live}}</ref> Lithuanian Prime Minister [[Ingrida Šimonytė]] informed the public that the pre-trial investigation had been started for [[Forced disappearance in Belarus|forced disappearance]] and hijacking of the aircraft.<ref>{{Cite web |date=23 May 2021 |title=Oro uoste Minske nutupdyto lėktuvo keleivius sutikusi Šimonytė: tai negali likti be atsako |trans-title=Šimonytė, who met the passengers of the plane landed at the airport in Minsk: it cannot go unanswered |url=https://www.lrt.lt/mediateka/irasas/2000153701/oro-uoste-minske-nutupdyto-lektuvo-keleivius-sutikusi-simonyte-tai-negali-likti-be-atsako |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523215737/https://www.lrt.lt/mediateka/irasas/2000153701/oro-uoste-minske-nutupdyto-lektuvo-keleivius-sutikusi-simonyte-tai-negali-likti-be-atsako |archive-date=23 May 2021 |access-date=23 May 2021 |website=LRT |language=lt}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Netherlands}} Dutch caretaker Prime Minister [[Mark Rutte]] condemned the "unacceptable and unprecedented" attack.<ref name=Dutchnews240521>{{cite web |url=https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/05/dutch-pm-joins-condemnation-of-ryanair-hijack-klm-continues-flights/ |title=Dutch PM joins condemnation of Ryanair 'hijack', KLM continues flights |date=24 May 2021 |publisher=Dutch News |accessdate=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524084616/https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/05/dutch-pm-joins-condemnation-of-ryanair-hijack-klm-continues-flights/ |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|New Zealand}} The New Zealand Foreign Minister [[Nanaia Mahuta]] said that the incident and the detention of Protasevich "raise[d] serious issues of international law" and called for a "full investigation". The [[New Zealand Cabinet]] also agreed to impose a travel ban on specific individuals associated with the Lukashenko regime and suspended high-level bilateral political and military contact with Belarus.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Miller |first1=Geoffrey |title=Opinion: New Zealand Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta is ruffling feathers as her words are closely watched internationally |url=https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/opinion-new-zealand-foreign-affairs-minister-nanaia-mahuta-is-ruffling-feathers-as-her-words-are-closely-watched-internationally.html |access-date=30 May 2021 |work=[[Newshub]] |date=29 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210530114718/https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/opinion-new-zealand-foreign-affairs-minister-nanaia-mahuta-is-ruffling-feathers-as-her-words-are-closely-watched-internationally.html |archive-date=30 May 2021|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Norway}} The Norwegian foreign minister protested the Belarusian authorities forcing the airplane to land.<ref>{{Cite news |date=26 May 2021 |title=Søreide kritiserer Hviterussland |language=nb-NO |trans-title=Søreide criticizes Belarus |work=NRK |url=https://www.nrk.no/nyheter/soreide-kritiserer-hviterussland-1.15510276 |access-date=26 May 2021 |archive-date=26 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526145005/https://www.nrk.no/nyheter/soreide-kritiserer-hviterussland-1.15510276 |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Poland}} Polish Prime Minister [[Mateusz Morawiecki]] called the incident "an unprecedented act of state terrorism that cannot go unpunished".<ref name=BBC57219860/><br />
* {{flagicon|Portugal}} Portuguese Prime Minister [[António Costa]] accused Lukashenko of "crossing all red lines" with the decision to "hijack a civilian plane flying between two European capitals, two [[NATO]] capitals, with the exclusive objective of detaining a journalist and his partner". At the time of the incident, Portugal held the rotating [[presidency of the Council of the European Union]].<ref>{{Cite web |date=26 May 2021 |title=António Costa acusa regime de Lukashenko de ter ultrapassado todas as linhas vermelhas |trans-title=António Costa accuses Lukashenko's regime of having crossed all red lines |url=https://www.rtp.pt/noticias/mundo/antonio-costa-acusa-regime-de-lukashenko-de-ter-ultrapassado-todas-as-linhas-vermelhas_n1323062 |url-status=live |access-date=23 June 2021 |website=rtp.pt |language=pt}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Russia}} Russian Foreign Minister [[Sergei Lavrov]] said that the way Belarus handled the incident was "an absolutely reasonable approach". State Duma deputy [[Leonid Kalashnikov]], who chairs the Duma's committee on post-Soviet affairs, said that Belarus had the right to choose "those methods that it considers feasible and necessary" to combat threats to its national security.<ref>{{Cite web |url= https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/24/russia-defends-belarus-over-plane-diversion-a73988 |title= Russia Defends Belarus Over Plane Diversion |date= 24 May 2021 |work= Moscow Times |access-date= 27 May 2021 |archive-date= 27 May 2021 |archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20210527021536/https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/24/russia-defends-belarus-over-plane-diversion-a73988 |url-status= live }}</ref> Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman [[Maria Zakharova]] compared the incident to the [[Evo Morales grounding incident|grounding]] of the presidential airplane of [[Bolivian President]] [[Evo Morales]] in Austria in July 2013 as European countries rescinded permission in midflight to refuel or to use their airspace. Washington had falsely suspected that American [[intelligence outsourcing|intelligence contractor]] [[Edward Snowden]], whom the U.S. government wished to arrest, was on board the presidential airplane.<ref>{{Cite news |last=McPartland |first=Ben |date=3 July 2013 |title=Snowden affair: France apologises to Bolivia |work=The Local |url=https://www.thelocal.fr/20130703/snowden-affair-bolivia-furious-with-france/ |url-status=live |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526131038/https://www.thelocal.fr/20130703/snowden-affair-bolivia-furious-with-france/ |archive-date=26 May 2021}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |date=5 July 2013 |title=Spain 'told Edward Snowden was on Bolivia president's plane' |language=en-GB |work=BBC News |url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-23201767 |url-status=live |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://www.webcitation.org/6O7fAs1dm?url=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-23201767 |archive-date=16 March 2014}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Psaki |first=Jen |date=3 July 2013 |title=Daily Press Briefing |url=https://2009-2017.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2013/07/211535.htm#SNOWDEN |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210531045642/https://2009-2017.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2013/07/211535.htm#SNOWDEN |archive-date=31 May 2021 |access-date=2 June 2021 |website=U.S. Department of State}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=West weighs action after Belarus diverts plane, arrests reporter |url=https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/24/rift-between-belarus-and-west-grows-after-plane-hijacking |work=Al-Jazeera |date=24 May 2021 |access-date=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524171512/https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/24/rift-between-belarus-and-west-grows-after-plane-hijacking |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Sweden}} Swedish Prime Minister [[Stefan Löfven]] said in a press conference that "the actions taken by Belarus is completely unacceptable and will be met with further sanctions". In the same speech he also called for an "immediate release of journalist Roman Protasevich and his girlfriend Sofia Sapega".<ref>{{Cite news |last=Solander |first=Ivan |date=25 May 2021 |title=Löfven: Oacceptabelt agerande av Belarus |language=sv |trans-title=Löfven: Unacceptable action by Belarus |url=https://www.dn.se/varlden/lofven-oacceptabelt-agerande-av-belarus/ |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=26 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526122751/https://www.dn.se/varlden/lofven-oacceptabelt-agerande-av-belarus/ |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Ukraine}} Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky instructed the government to suspend direct flights between Ukraine and Belarus and close off Belarusian airspace for the transit of Ukrainian aircraft. Prime Minister [[Denys Shmyhal]] convened an extraordinary cabinet meeting for 25&nbsp;May.<ref>{{Cite news |date=24 May 2021 |title=Зеленський доручив зупинити авіасполучення між Україною та Білоруссю |language=uk |trans-title=Zelensky instructed to suspend flights between Ukraine and Belarus |work=Європейська правда |url=https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/news/2021/05/24/7123560/ |url-status=live |access-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524165034/https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/news/2021/05/24/7123560/ |archive-date=24 May 2021}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|UK}} United Kingdom Foreign Secretary [[Dominic Raab]] said that the incident was a "shocking assault on civil aviation".<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57232988|publisher=BBC|title=UK airlines told to avoid Belarusian airspace after journalist arrest|access-date=24 May 2021|date=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524152021/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57232988|url-status=live}}</ref> Chairman of the British [[Foreign Affairs Select Committee|Foreign Affairs Committee]] [[Tom Tugendhat]] said: "If it's not an [[act of war]], it's certainly a warlike act".<ref name="Reuters240521">{{cite news |url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fury-over-state-piracy-west-weighs-action-against-belarus-2021-05-24/ |title=Fury over "state piracy" as West weighs action against Belarus |work=Reuters |accessdate=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524095457/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fury-over-state-piracy-west-weighs-action-against-belarus-2021-05-24/ |url-status=dead}}</ref> <br />
* {{flagicon|US}} United States [[President of the United States|President]] [[Joe Biden]] characterized the forced diversion as a "direct affront to international norms". He called the incident and the subsequent video with Protasevich "shameful assaults on both political dissent and the freedom of the press" and called for his release.<ref>{{cite press release |url=https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/05/24/statement-by-president-joe-biden-on-diversion-of-ryanair-flight-and-arrest-of-journalist-in-belarus/ |title=Statement by President Joe Biden on Diversion of Ryanair Flight and Arrest of Journalist in Belarus |publisher=[[White House]] |date=24 May 2021 |accessdate=25 May 2021 |archive-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195419/https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/05/24/statement-by-president-joe-biden-on-diversion-of-ryanair-flight-and-arrest-of-journalist-in-belarus/ |url-status=live }}</ref> [[United States Secretary of State|Secretary of State]] [[Antony Blinken]] condemned the grounding of the flight as a "brazen and shocking act" and demanded an international investigation.<ref name="reuters.com"/> There were American citizens on board the flight.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Ateba |first=Simon |title=Biden admin condemns diversion of Ryanair flight to Belarus to arrest journalist Raman Pratasevich, says the lives of American citizens were endangered |url=https://todaynewsafrica.com/biden-admin-condemns-diversion-of-ryanair-flight-to-belarus-to-arrest-journalist-raman-pratasevich-says-the-lives-of-american-citizens-were-endangered/ |access-date=24 May 2021 |website=Today News Africa |archive-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523233544/https://todaynewsafrica.com/biden-admin-condemns-diversion-of-ryanair-flight-to-belarus-to-arrest-journalist-raman-pratasevich-says-the-lives-of-american-citizens-were-endangered/ |url-status=live}}</ref> [[United States Secretary of Transportation|Transportation Secretary]] [[Pete Buttigieg]] announced that the [[Presidency of Joe Biden|Biden administration]] and the [[Federal Aviation Administration]] were assessing whether it was safe for American-flagged airlines to continue to operate in Belarusian airspace.<ref name="Ziady">{{cite web |url=https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/24/business/airlines-belarus-air-space/index.html |title=Airlines are avoiding Belarus after 'state-sponsored hijacking' of Ryanair flight |publisher=CNN.com |first=Hannah |last=Ziady |accessdate=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524164102/https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/24/business/airlines-belarus-air-space/index.html |url-status=live }}</ref> The FAA issued a [[Notice to Airmen]] on 28&nbsp;May 2021, formally advising U.S. passenger airliners to use "extreme caution" when flying over Belarus.<ref>{{Cite news |last1=Mohammed |first1=Arshad |last2=Shepardson |first2=David |date=28 May 2021 |title=U.S. urges 'extreme caution' to airlines flying passengers over Belarus |work=Reuters |url=https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/faa-tells-us-passenger-carriers-use-extreme-caution-flying-over-belarus-2021-05-28/ |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=1 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210601202712/https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/faa-tells-us-passenger-carriers-use-extreme-caution-flying-over-belarus-2021-05-28/ |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
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===Multinational organisations ===<br />
[[European Commission]] president [[Ursula von der Leyen]] described the incident as "utterly unacceptable", stating that "any violation of international air transport rules must bear consequences".<ref name="FlightGlobal143868" /><br />
<br />
The International Civil Aviation Organization voiced its deep concern over "the apparent forced landing" of the flight. An ICAO tweet claimed that the forced landing could be in breach of the Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation.<ref>{{cite web|access-date=24 May 2021|title=Ryanair 'hijack' to Minsk could have serious consequences for Belarus|url=https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/ryanair-diversion-hijack-minsk-belarus-b1852406.html|date=23 May 2021|website=[[The Independent]]|author-first=Simon|author-last=Calder|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523223339/https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/ryanair-diversion-hijack-minsk-belarus-b1852406.html|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
<br />
NATO [[Secretary General of NATO|Secretary-General]] [[Jens Stoltenberg]] tweeted that the grounding of the flight constitutes a "serious and dangerous incident which requires international investigation".<ref name="reuters.com">{{cite web |last1=Sytas |first1=Andrius |last2=Ostroukh |first2=Andrey |title=Belarus forces airliner to land and arrests opponent, sparking U.S. and European outrage |url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/belarus-forces-vilnius-bound-ryanair-plane-land-detain-blogger-2021-05-23/ |website=Reuters |date=23 May 2021 |access-date=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524000905/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/belarus-forces-vilnius-bound-ryanair-plane-land-detain-blogger-2021-05-23/ |url-status=live }}</ref> Reuters reported that [[Turkey]] "insisted that any mention of support for more Western sanctions on Belarus, and calls for the release of political prisoners there, would be left out" of the text published on the NATO website.<ref>{{cite news |title=Turkey pushed NATO allies into softening outrage over Belarus plane, diplomats say |url=https://www.reuters.com/world/exclusive-turkey-pushed-nato-allies-into-softening-outrage-over-belarus-plane-2021-05-27/ |work=Reuters |date=28 May 2021 |access-date=29 May 2021 |archive-date=29 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210529171721/https://www.reuters.com/world/exclusive-turkey-pushed-nato-allies-into-softening-outrage-over-belarus-plane-2021-05-27/ |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
<br />
[[United Nations]] [[Secretary-General of the United Nations|Secretary-General]] [[António Guterres]] stated that he was "deeply concerned" over the apparent forced landing and subsequent detention of Roman Protasevich and asked for a full investigation into the incident.<ref>{{cite news |title=Guterres deeply concerned over 'forced landing' and arrest of Belarus opposition journalist, as condemnation grows |url=https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/05/1092642 |access-date=4 June 2021 |work=UN News |publisher=United Nations |date=24 May 2021 |language=en |archive-date=30 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210530122813/https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/05/1092642 |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
<br />
===Legal experts===<br />
British professor of international law Marco Roscini stated that Article&nbsp;1 of the [[Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation|Chicago Convention]] provides that a state has "complete and exclusive sovereignty over the airspace above its territory", so an airplane in a state's airspace can be intercepted and ordered to land, provided the interception process in Annex&nbsp;2 Appendix&nbsp;2 is followed and it complies with the safety requirements of Article&nbsp;3bis. However, in this case the diversion airport was more distant than the destination airport, so could potentially endanger safety, which would be contrary to Article&nbsp;3bis. He noted that if a fake bomb threat had been made, a crime would have been committed under Article&nbsp;1 of the [[Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Civil Aviation]] and Belarus should "facilitate the continuation of the journey of the passengers and crew".<ref name=f24-20210524>{{cite news |url=https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210524-how-belarus-s-aviation-piracy-broke-international-law |title=How Belarus's 'aviation piracy' broke international law |last=Wheeldon |first=Tom |publisher=France 24 |date=24 May 2021 |access-date=9 June 2021}}</ref><br />
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Ukrainian [[aviation law]]yer Andriy Huk suggested that the interception by the military aircraft and redirection of the airliner to a more distant airport could have jeopardized the safety of the passengers and crew. He also noted that Annex&nbsp;2 Appendix&nbsp;2 of the Chicago Convention considers interception of civilian aircraft by the military as a very last resort, but the Belarusian military jet took off immediately.<ref>{{Cite web |date=23 May 2021 |title=Самолет Ryanair над Беларусью развернули - его сопроводил в Минск истребитель |trans-title=Ryanair plane was deployed over Belarus - it was escorted to Minsk by a fighter |url=https://www.avianews.com/incidents/2021/05/23/ryanair_plane_diverted_to_minsk/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523160047/https://www.avianews.com/incidents/2021/05/23/ryanair_plane_diverted_to_minsk/ |archive-date=23 May 2021 |access-date=23 May 2021}}</ref><br />
Associate professor at the Russian [[Higher School of Economics]] Gleb Bogush stated that the staging of a bomb threat and the interception of the aircraft by the Belarusian authorities could have jeopardized the passengers and crew and that both the Chicago Convention and [[Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Civil Aviation|1971 Montreal Convention]] should be used in the legal assessment of the case. He also called the situation "a very dangerous precedent".<ref>{{Cite web |title=В Белоруссии задержан экс-главред Nexta. Самолет, в котором он летел, совершил экстренную посадку в Минске |lang=ru |trans-title=Former Nexta editor-in-chief detained in Belarus. The plane in which he was flying made an emergency landing in Minsk. |url=https://www.bfm.ru/news/472690 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523183637/https://www.bfm.ru/news/472690 |archive-date=23 May 2021 |access-date=23 May 2021 |website=BFM.ru}}</ref><br />
<br />
Using the same two treaties as a basis, aviation lawyers with the international firm [[DLA Piper]] questioned the legality of the events and raised two possible ways that aircraft safety may have been jeopardized. The first is the burden of additional work required by the crew to land safely at an unfamiliar airport, which was further complicated by warnings of an on-board bomb and the presence of a military escort. The second is passengers reacting to news of a diversion, in particular, passengers who were aware of security personnel on the flight and the possibility of arrest as a result of the diversion. They noted that a key factor in assessing the case would be determining the true reason the flight was intercepted and diverted. The same experts also clarify that the aircraft, crew, and passengers were in an area of Belarusian sovereignty and subject to the country's laws while flying above it according to Article&nbsp;1 of the Chicago Convention.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.aerosociety.com/news/the-interception-of-ryanair-flight-fr4978-legal-or-not-carriers-have-been-put-on-notice/ |title=The interception of Ryanair Flight FR4978 – legal or not, carriers have been put on notice |publisher=[[Royal Aeronautical Society]] |first1=Tony |last1=Payne |first2=Eric |last2=Oehy |access-date=5 June 2021 |date=4 June 2021}}</ref><br />
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===Airlines===<br />
Ryanair [[chief executive officer|CEO]] Michael O'Leary stated that the event was a "state-sponsored hijacking" and that Ryanair believes that "there were some [Belarusian] KGB agents offloaded at the airport as well".<ref name="RFE31270390" /><ref name="BBC57224452" /> [[Cyprus]]-registered [[Avia Solutions Group]] announced that their airlines will no longer use Belarusian airspace.<ref name="Ziady"/> On 24&nbsp;May, Hungarian airline [[Wizz Air]] rerouted a flight from [[Kyiv]], Ukraine, to [[Tallinn]], Estonia, to avoid Belarusian airspace.<ref name="Marketwatch11621855330">{{cite web |url=https://www.marketwatch.com/story/airlines-reroute-flights-to-avoid-belarus-after-forced-landing-11621855330?mod=home-page |title=Airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus after forced landing |publisher=The Wall Street Journal |work=Market Watch |first=Benjamin |last=Katz |accessdate=24 May 2021 |archive-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195420/https://www.marketwatch.com/story/airlines-reroute-flights-to-avoid-belarus-after-forced-landing-11621855330?mod=home-page |url-status=live }}</ref> Latvian airline [[AirBaltic]] announced on 24&nbsp;May that it would no longer fly in Belarusian airspace until the situation became clearer.<ref name=Reuters240521/><ref name=Marketwatch11621855330/> Dutch airline [[KLM]] stated that it was temporarily halting flights to Belarus.<ref name=Reuters240521/> [[Scandinavian Airlines]] (SAS) announced that in line with instructions from the [[Swedish Transport Agency]], the twice-weekly flight between [[Oslo, Norway|Oslo]] and Kyiv would be rerouted to avoid Belarusian airspace.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/24/europe/belarus-ryanair-flight-raman-pratasevich-hijacking-intl/index.html |title=Belarus accused of 'state-sponsored piracy' as fury mounts over diversion of Ryanair flight. |publisher=CNN.com |first=Sheena |last=McKensie |accessdate=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524145225/https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/24/europe/belarus-ryanair-flight-raman-pratasevich-hijacking-intl/index.html |url-status=live }}</ref> Lufthansa announced that it would suspend operations in Belarusian airspace until further notice.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Lufthansa fliegt vorerst nicht mehr über Belarus |trans-title=Lufthansa no longer flies via Belarus for the time being |url=https://www.zdf.de/uri/004e1ca2-c51f-4bfe-95c7-45f4bb218884 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195423/https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/belarus-luftraum-lufthansa-100.html |archive-date=2 June 2021 |access-date=24 May 2021 |website=www.zdf.de |language=de}}</ref> [[Singapore Airlines]] (SIA) also began rerouting flights bound for Europe to avoid Belarusian airspace from 25&nbsp;May, citing safety concerns.<ref>{{cite news |author1=Kurt Ganapathy |title=Singapore Airlines reroutes flights to avoid Belarus airspace after forced landing of Ryanair plane |url=https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-airlines-belarus-airspace-flights-roman-protasevich-14881388 |access-date=25 May 2021 |work=[[CNA (TV network)|CNA]] |date=25 May 2021 |archive-date=25 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210525084952/https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-airlines-belarus-airspace-flights-roman-protasevich-14881388 |url-status=live }}</ref> On 15&nbsp;June, O'Leary appeared before a British parliamentary committee to answer questions about the incident. He called the event a "premeditated breach of global aviation rules".<ref name=BBC57480835/><br />
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===Other===<br />
[[File:Торунь. Акцыя салідарнасці з Беларуссю (2021-05-24) 2.jpg|thumb|Protest in support of Protasevich in [[Toruń]], Poland, 25&nbsp;May 2021]]<br />
[[Bucharest]]'s [[Sector 1 (Bucharest)|Sector 1]] mayor [[Clotilde Armand]], following calls from historian [[Andrei Oișteanu]], began preparations to rename the street where the Belarusian embassy is located in Romania to Roman Protasevich Street, citing that the consequence of this gesture of support for the detained journalist would imply that "all correspondence to and from the embassy would bear the dissident journalist's name and all Belarusian diplomats would have 'Roman Protasevich' printed on their business cards".<ref>{{Cite web |last=Buciu |first=Laura |title=O stradă din Sectorul 1 ar putea lua numele jurnalistului disident Roman Protasevichi. Anunțul dat de Clotilde Armand |trans-title=A street in Sector 1 could be named after dissident journalist Roman Protasevichi. The announcement given by Clotilde Armand |url=https://www.mediafax.ro/social/o-strada-din-sectorul-1-ar-putea-lua-numele-jurnalistului-disident-roman-protasevichi-anuntul-dat-de-clotilde-armand-20102054 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526185114/https://www.mediafax.ro/social/o-strada-din-sectorul-1-ar-putea-lua-numele-jurnalistului-disident-roman-protasevichi-anuntul-dat-de-clotilde-armand-20102054 |archive-date=26 May 2021 |access-date=27 May 2021 |website=Mediafax.ro |language=ro}}</ref> The initiative led to the drafting of a letter from eight members of the European Parliament suggesting that all EU member states follow suit in renaming their respective streets hosting Belarusian diplomatic missions around the bloc in support of Protasevich in order to send "a strong message to [the] Belarus regime".<ref>{{Cite web|date=26 May 2021|title=Alin Mituta on Twitter|url=https://twitter.com/alinmituta/status/1397609765467951104|url-status=live|access-date=27 May 2021|website=Twitter|language=en|archive-date=26 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526174520/https://twitter.com/AlinMituta/status/1397609765467951104}}</ref> <br />
<br />
The [[International Federation of Air Line Pilots' Associations]] and the [[European Cockpit Association]] issued a joint statement calling the event "an unprecedented act of unlawful interference" and "state-sponsored hijacking". They called for an independent inquiry into the event.<ref name=Herald/><br />
<br />
On 28 May 2021, the [[European Broadcasting Union]] (EBU) announced that it would be suspending the membership of Belarusian broadcaster [[National State Television and Radio Company of the Republic of Belarus]] (BTRC), citing that they were "particularly alarmed by the broadcast of interviews apparently obtained under duress". BTRC was given two weeks to respond before the suspension came into effect. As a result, this prevents BTRC, and therefore, Belarus, from participating in or broadcasting events such as the [[Eurovision Song Contest]] and other events sanctioned by the EBU.<ref>{{Cite web|title=EBU Executive Board agrees to suspension of Belarus Member BTRC|url=https://www.ebu.ch/news/2021/05/ebu-executive-board-agrees-to-suspension-of-belarus-member-btrc|access-date=29 May 2021|website=EBU|date=28 May 2021|language=en|archive-date=28 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210528160953/https://www.ebu.ch/news/2021/05/ebu-executive-board-agrees-to-suspension-of-belarus-member-btrc|url-status=live}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|title=Belarus: EBU Executive Board agrees to suspend Belarusian state broadcaster BTRC|url=https://wiwibloggs.com/2021/05/28/belarus-ebu-executive-board-agrees-to-suspend-belarusian-state-broadcaster-btrc/265548/|access-date=29 May 2021|website=wiwibloggs|date=28 May 2021|language=en|archive-date=28 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210528134436/https://wiwibloggs.com/2021/05/28/belarus-ebu-executive-board-agrees-to-suspend-belarusian-state-broadcaster-btrc/265548/|url-status=live}}</ref> Belarus had already been disqualified from the [[2021 Eurovision Song Contest]], as its chosen song and the suggested replacement broke rules on political statements in songs selected for the competition.<ref name=Eurovision>{{Cite web|date=26 March 2021|title=EBU statement on Belarusian participation|url=https://eurovision.tv/story/ebu-statement-on-belarusian-entry-2021|access-date=1 June 2021|publisher=European Broadcasting Union (EBU)|archive-date=1 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210501015119/https://eurovision.tv/story/ebu-statement-on-belarusian-entry-2021|url-status=live}}</ref> BTRC was then expelled from the EBU on 1&nbsp;July 2021.<ref>{{cite web |last1=Adams |first1=Oliver |title=Belarus: EBU expels BTRC from union – Belarus no longer eligible to compete in Eurovision |url=https://wiwibloggs.com/2021/06/30/belarus-ebu-expels-belarus-broadcaster-btrc-not-eligible-for-eurovision/265914/ |publisher=Wiwibloggs |access-date=1 July 2021 |date=30 June 2020}}</ref><br />
<br />
In December 2021, air controller Oleg Galegov who was present in the tower during the interception defected to Poland. In his statement he confirmed that KGB officers were present in the tower during the operation and took control in the crucial moment of communicating the bomb threat to the pilot.<ref>{{Cite news|last=Higgins|first=Andrew|last2=Dapkus|first2=Tomas|date=2021-12-08|title=Defector Helps Build Case Against Belarus Over Ryanair Flight It Forced Down|language=en-US|work=The New York Times|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/world/europe/belarus-poland-ryanair-plane-dissident.html|access-date=2021-12-15|issn=0362-4331}}</ref><br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[Arrest of Abdolmalek Rigi]]<br />
*[[Evo Morales grounding incident]], a flight forced to land in Austria while falsely suspected of transporting [[Edward Snowden]]<br />
*[[Extraordinary rendition]]<br />
*[[2021 Belarus-European Union border crisis]]<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*{{Wikinews-inline|Austrian Airlines cancels Moscow-bound flight after Russia refuses a reroute outside Belarusian airspace}}<br />
*{{Wikinews-inline|Canada, EU, UK, US impose sanctions on Belarus over Ryanair hijacking}}<br />
<br />
{{Ryanair}}<br />
{{Aviation accidents and incidents in 2021}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:2020–2021 Belarusian protests]]<br />
[[Category:2021 in Belarus]]<br />
[[Category:2021 in Greece]]<br />
[[Category:2021 in Lithuania]]<br />
[[Category:2021 in international relations]]<br />
[[Category:2020s in Minsk]]<br />
[[Category:Accidents and incidents involving the Boeing 737 Next Generation]]<br />
[[Category:Aircraft hijackings in Europe]]<br />
[[Category:Alexander Lukashenko]]<br />
[[Category:Aviation accidents and incidents in 2021]]<br />
[[Category:Aviation accidents and incidents in Belarus]]<br />
[[Category:Belarus–European Union relations]]<br />
[[Category:Belarus–Greece relations]]<br />
[[Category:Belarus–Lithuania relations]]<br />
[[Category:Belarus–Russia relations]]<br />
[[Category:Russia–European Union relations]]<br />
[[Category:International incidents]]<br />
[[Category:May 2021 events in Europe]]<br />
[[Category:Ryanair|4978]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryanair_Flight_4978&diff=1068424703Ryanair Flight 49782022-01-28T10:14:29Z<p>Hmm...: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Short description|2021 aviation incident over Belarus}}<br />
{{Use dmy dates|date=June 2021}}<br />
{{Infobox aircraft occurrence<br />
| name = Ryanair Flight 4978<br />
| image = File:Ryanair B738 SP-RSM.png<br />
| width =<br />
| alt = <br />
| caption = SP-RSM, the aircraft involved, in January 2021<br />
| occurrence_type = Incident<br />
| date = {{start date|2021|05|23|df=y}}<br />
| summary = [[Forced landing]] and arrest of two passengers<br />
| site = [[Minsk National Airport]]<br />
| aircraft_type = [[Boeing 737 Next Generation|Boeing 737-8AS]]<br />
| aircraft_name = <br />
| operator = [[Buzz (Ryanair)|Buzz]] on behalf of [[Ryanair]]<br />
| IATA = FR4978<br />
| ICAO = RYR1TZ<br />
| callsign = RYANAIR 1 TANGO ZULU<br />
| tail_number = SP-RSM<br />
| origin = [[Athens International Airport]]<br />
| destination = [[Vilnius Airport]]<br />
| occupants = 132<br />
| passengers = 126<br />
| crew = 6<br />
| fatalities = 0<br />
| injuries = 0<br />
| missing = <br />
| survivors = 132<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''Ryanair Flight 4978''' was a regularly-scheduled international passenger flight from [[Athens International Airport]], [[Greece]], to [[Vilnius Airport]], [[Lithuania]], operated by the Polish subsidiary [[Buzz (Ryanair)|Buzz]]. On 23 May 2021, while in [[Belarus]]ian [[airspace]], it was diverted by the [[Belarusian government]] to [[Minsk National Airport]] where two of its passengers, opposition activist and journalist [[Roman Protasevich]] and his girlfriend Sofia Sapega, were arrested by authorities. The aircraft was allowed to depart after seven hours, reaching Vilnius eight and a half hours behind schedule.<br />
<br />
The act was condemned by the [[European Union]] (EU), [[NATO]], the United Kingdom, and the United States, among others, and by some civil aviation authorities, while Russian officials backed Belarus. The EU and the [[European Union Aviation Safety Agency]] issued directives halting European airlines from flying over Belarusian airspace.<br />
<br />
==Aircraft==<br />
The aircraft involved was a four-year-old [[Boeing 737 Next Generation#737-800|Boeing 737-800]], registered in [[Poland]], [[aircraft registration|registration]] SP-RSM.<ref name="FlightGlobal143868">{{Cite web|last=Kaminski-Morrow|first=David|title=Political leaders outraged as Belarus 'forces' Ryanair 737 diversion to Minsk|url=https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/political-leaders-outraged-as-belarus-forces-ryanair-737-diversion-to-minsk/143868.article|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523170341/https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/political-leaders-outraged-as-belarus-forces-ryanair-737-diversion-to-minsk/143868.article|archive-date=23 May 2021|publisher=Flight Global|accessdate=23 May 2021}}</ref> The aircraft entered service with Ryanair in May 2017, registered EI-FZX in [[Ireland]], and in November 2019 was transferred to Ryanair Sun (now [[Buzz (Ryanair)|Buzz]]) as SP-RSM on the Polish aircraft registry.<ref name="Jetphotos">{{cite web|title=SP-RSM Boeing 737-8AS - 44791, operated by Ryanair Sun|url=https://www.jetphotos.com/info/737-44791|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524054225/https://www.jetphotos.com/info/737-44791|archive-date=24 May 2021|publisher=Jetphotos|accessdate=24 May 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Incident==<br />
{{Update section|date=January 2022|reason=ICAO Fact-Finding Investigation report differs from these older accounts of incident}}<br />
<mapframe width=300 height=350 zoom=4 latitude=47.4 longitude=26.5 text="Approximate route of the flight, showing its diversion toward Minsk"><br />
{<br />
"type": "ExternalData",<br />
"service": "page",<br />
"title": "Flight FR4978 2021-05-23.map"<br />
}<br />
</mapframe><br />
<br />
On 23 May 2021, [[Ryanair]] Flight 4978 (Athens–Vilnius),<ref>{{cite news |title=Vilnius Airport flight timetable |url=https://www.vilnius-airport.lt/en/before-the-flight/flights-information/flights-schedule?direction=arrival&destination=ath |access-date=28 May 2021 |work=www.vilnius-airport.lt |language=en |archive-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195415/https://www.vilnius-airport.lt/en/before-the-flight/flights-information/flights-schedule?direction=arrival&destination=ath |url-status=live }}</ref> operated by the Polish subsidiary Buzz,<ref>{{Cite news |date=26 May 2021 |title=Minsk incident: Association Cockpit offers help to Buzz pilots |language=en |work=Aviation Direct |url=https://aviation.direct/en/minsk-incident-union-cockpit-offers-help-to-buzz-pilots |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195417/https://aviation.direct/en/minsk-incident-union-cockpit-offers-help-to-buzz-pilots |url-status=live }}</ref> a Boeing 737-800 carrying 6 crew members and 126 passengers,<ref name=Herald/> was diverted to Minsk National Airport after ground authorities reported a bomb on board, whilst the aircraft was {{convert|45|nmi|km mi}} south of Vilnius and {{convert|90|nmi|km mi}} west of [[Minsk]], but still in Belarusian airspace.<ref name=dw/><ref name=Herald/><ref name=ABC77859336/> <br />
<br />
The ICAO report detailed an email that was received by in the generic mailbox [email protected] containing the following text at at 09:25:16 (12:25:16 local):<br />
<br />
"We, Hamas soldiers, demand that Israel cease fire in the Gaza Strip. We demand that the European Union abandon its support for Israel in this war. We know that the participants of Delphi Economic Forum are returning home on May 23 via flight FR4978. A bomb was planted onto this aircraft. If you don’t meet our demands the bomb will explode on May 23 over Vilnius. Allahu Akbar."<br />
<br />
This email was sent to a total of six recipients in separate emails to the airports of Minsk, Lithuania, Athens, Sofia, Bucharest and Kiev with the first five sent while FR4978 was flying over Ukrainian airspace immediately prior to entering Belarussian airspace. At Minsk, an automated alert triggered by pre-established keywords notified in real time the head of the systems admin of the Cybersecurity Unit responsible working for SearchInform via in-house software working remote. Two days prior to the flight, The Delphi Economic Forum took place in Athens from May 10th to 15th, 2021, and is reported that the flight contained at least one participant. At 12:27, the Deputy General Director for Security, Discipline and Personnel was notified via telephone who then contacted Minsk Air Traffic Control Center at 12:28. The Minsk Area Control Center Duty Supervisor cross references the flight with the call sign and flight plan and contacts the flight crew at 9:28:58.<br />
<br />
According to the airline, its pilots were notified by Belarusian authorities of "a potential security threat on board" and were instructed to land the aircraft in Minsk.<ref name="nyt_23052021">{{cite news|last1=Troianovski|first1=Anton|last2=Nechepurenko|first2=Ivan|date=23 May 2021|title=Belarus Forces Down Plane to Seize Dissident; Europe Sees 'State Hijacking'|newspaper=The New York Times|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/23/world/europe/ryanair-belarus.html|url-status=live|access-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523235352/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/23/world/europe/ryanair-belarus.html|archive-date=23 May 2021}}</ref><ref name="bbc_24052021">{{cite news|date=24 May 2021|title=Ryanair plane: Western powers voice outrage at plane 'hijacking'|work=[[BBC News]]|url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57224452|url-status=live|access-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524032205/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57224452|archive-date=24 May 2021}}</ref> The aircraft had entered Belarusian airspace at 12:30, and the "bomb threat" was passed on by Belarusian [[air traffic control]] (ATC) immediately afterwards. At 12:33, air traffic control mentioned an e-mail from terrorists sent to the Minsk airport.<ref name=":0">{{Cite web|date=26 May 2021|title=Lukashenko's Crazy-Stupid Hamas Headfake|url=https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/lukashenkos-crazy-stupid-hamas-headfake/|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526210224/https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/lukashenkos-crazy-stupid-hamas-headfake/|archive-date=26 May 2021|access-date=26 May 2021|website=Newlines Magazine|language=en}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|others=In collaboration with [[The Daily Beast]] and [[Der Spiegel]]|title=Швейцарский ХАМАС. Нестыковки в "террористической" версии белорусских властей|trans-title=Swiss Hamas. Inconsistencies in the "terrorist" version of the Belarusian authorities|url=https://dossier.center/bel-hamas/|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526210225/https://dossier.center/bel-hamas/|archive-date=26 May 2021|access-date=26 May 2021|website=dossier.center|language=ru}}</ref> <br />
<br />
According to air traffic transcripts, Minsk informed the flight crew that a bomb threat via email was received and that it detailed a bomb that would be activated over Vilnius was present on board. The flight crew attempted to contact Ryanair Operational Control Center (OCC) and Vilnus without success with the OCC in Dublin only being alerted at 9:48 following an alert on Flightradar24. The Duty Supervisor recommended diversion to Minsk, and following being provided a threat assessment of code red upon request by the flight crew by Minsk, the flight crew holds the plane and then declared MAYDAY at 9:47:12 and diverted to Minsk MSQ airport.<br />
<br />
According to Ryanair CEO [[Michael O'Leary (businessman)|Michael O'Leary]], the pilots were told by Belarusian ATC that there was a bomb on board which would be detonated if the aircraft entered Lithuanian airspace, hence the need to divert to Minsk. O'Leary said that the pilots tried to seek advice from Ryanair but were lied to by Belarusian ATC, who told them company representatives were not answering the phone.<ref name="BBC57480835">{{cite news |url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57480835 |title=Belarus plane: Ryanair boss says pilot had no choice but to land in Minsk |work=BBC News |date=15 June 2021 |accessdate=15 June 2021 }}</ref> <br />
<br />
The ICAO report detailed Minsk air traffic control contacting Vilnius air traffic control on behalf of the pilots for a Ryanair representative and was given the frequency for Litcargus, the ground handling service. When Minsk requested a specific contact for the airlines as this "issue does not concern engineering matters," Vilnius stated that they did not have such a frequency and that the pilots "should know themselves, how to make the contact." The pilots were provided the ground staff frequency and the pilots stated that they already had the frequency and that ground staff was not answer "we got that down, not answering."{{cn|date=January 2022}}<br />
<br />
According to his press service, Belarusian president Alexander Lukashenko personally ordered that the flight be re-directed to Minsk with a [[Belarusian Air Force]] [[MiG-29]] fighter escort.<ref name=dw/><ref name=PeopleOnliner230521>{{cite web |url=https://people.onliner.by/2021/05/23/na-bortu-samoleta-avarijno-posazhennogo-v-minske-byl-roman-protasevich |title=На борту самолета, экстренно посаженного в Минске, был Роман Протасевич |date=23 May 2021 |trans-title=Roman Protasevich was on board the plane urgently landed in Minsk |language=ru |publisher=People Onliner |accessdate=23 May 2021 |archive-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523123826/https://people.onliner.by/2021/05/23/na-bortu-samoleta-avarijno-posazhennogo-v-minske-byl-roman-protasevich |url-status=live }}</ref><ref name="Spring96-103499">{{cite web |date=23 May 2021 |title=У аэрапорце "Мінск" затрыманы блогера Раман Пратасевіч |trans-title=Blogger Raman Protasevich detained at Minsk airport |url=http://spring96.org/be/news/103499 |url-status=live |publisher=Spring 96 |language=be |accessdate=23 May 2021 |archive-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523123035/http://spring96.org/be/news/103499}}</ref> However the ICAO fact-finding task force later determined the MiG-29 was just tasked for communications back-up and to protect Minsk, and did not escort or intercept FR4978.<ref name=icao-202201/> The Belarusian government news agency [[BelTA]] said that the pilots had asked to land in Minsk.<ref name=Belta442580>{{cite web |url=https://www.belta.by/president/view/komandu-prinjat-v-minske-zaminirovannyj-samolet-ryanair-dal-lichno-lukashenko-442580-2021/?/2874 |title=Команду принять в Минске "заминированный" самолет Ryanair дал лично Лукашенко |date=23 May 2021 |trans-title=Lukashenka personally gave the command to receive the "mined" Ryanair plane in Minsk |language=be |publisher=BelTA |accessdate=23 May 2021 |archive-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523143807/https://www.belta.by/president/view/komandu-prinjat-v-minske-zaminirovannyj-samolet-ryanair-dal-lichno-lukashenko-442580-2021/?%2F2874 |url-status=live }}</ref><ref name=Kommersant4825832>{{cite web |url=https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4825832 |title=Основатель Nexta Протасевич задержан в аэропорту Минска |date=23 May 2021 |trans-title=Nexta founder Protasevich detained at Minsk airport |language=ru |publisher=Kommersant |accessdate=23 May 2021 |archive-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523120850/https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4825832 |url-status=live }}</ref> Both Ryanair and Belarusian law enforcement said that no bombs were found on board.<ref name=nyt_23052021/><ref name=bbc_24052021/><br />
<br />
The flight course of FR4978 over Belarus on 23 May 2021 became unusual even before making the U-turn. Based on [[Flightradar24]] raw data, it was noted that the aircraft did not start to descend over Belarus, even though this is usually done in preparation for landing in Vilnius.<ref>{{Cite news |date=23 May 2021 |title=Экс-главреда телеграм-канала NEXTA Романа Протасевича задержали в Беларуси. Его рейс Афины — Вильнюс экстренно сел в Минске в сопровождении истребителя. Европа грозит Лукашенко расследованием и санкциями. Главное |language=ru |trans-title=Former editor-in-chief of the telegram channel NEXTA Roman Protasevich was detained in Belarus. His flight Athens–Vilnius urgently landed in Minsk, accompanied by a fighter. Europe threatens Lukashenka with investigation and sanctions |work=[[Novaya Gazeta]] |publication-place=Moscow |url=https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2021/05/23/soosnovatelia-telegram-kanala-nexta-protasevicha-zaderzhali-v-belarusi |url-status=live |access-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523153348/https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2021/05/23/soosnovatelia-telegram-kanala-nexta-protasevicha-zaderzhali-v-belarusi |archive-date=23 May 2021}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Kropman |first=Vitaly |date=23 May 2021 |title=В Ryanair заявили об указании Беларуси посадить самолет с Протасевичем в Минске |language=ru |trans-title=Ryanair issues instructions to Belarus to land plane with Protasevich in Minsk |work=[[Deutsche Welle]] |url=https://www.dw.com/ru/ryanair-zajavil-o-trebovanie-belarusi-posadit-samolet-v-minske/a-57637295 |url-status=live |access-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523204954/https://www.dw.com/ru/ryanair-zajavil-o-trebovanie-belarusi-posadit-samolet-v-minske/a-57637295 |archive-date=23 May 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
== Passengers ==<br />
[[File:Роман_Протасевич.jpg|thumb|[[Roman Protasevich]], the journalist and activist, was arrested after the forced landing in Minsk.]]<br />
<br />
Upon landing in Minsk, the Belarusian opposition activist [[Roman Protasevich]] was removed from the aircraft and arrested on the grounds that he was listed on a Belarusian wanted list.<ref name="dw">{{cite web|title=Belarus opposition says government forced Ryanair plane to land to arrest journalist|date=23 May 2021|website=Deutsche Welle|access-date=23 May 2021|url=https://www.dw.com/en/belarus-opposition-says-government-forced-ryanair-plane-to-land-to-arrest-journalist/a-57635240|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523122730/https://www.dw.com/en/belarus-opposition-says-government-forced-ryanair-plane-to-land-to-arrest-journalist/a-57635240|url-status=live}}</ref><ref name="NN273349">{{cite web |url=https://nn.by/?c=ar&i=273349 |title=У аэрапорце Мінска, рэзка змяніўшы курс, прызямліўся самалёт Афіны—Вільня — на борце быў Раман Пратасевіч |trans-title=Athens-Vilnius plane landed at Minsk airport, abruptly changing course, Raman Protasevich on board |language=be |publisher=nn.by |accessdate=23 May 2021 |archive-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523121530/https://nn.by/?c=ar&i=273349 |url-status=live }}</ref> His girlfriend, Sofia Sapega, a Russian citizen, was also removed and detained without explanation.<ref name="RFE31270390">{{cite web|title=Belarus Faces Western Outrage Over Airliner 'Hijacking' To Detain Journalist|url=https://www.rferl.org/a/belarus-western-outrage-airliner-hijacking/31270390.html|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524083018/https://www.rferl.org/a/belarus-western-outrage-airliner-hijacking/31270390.html|archive-date=24 May 2021|publisher=Radio Free Europe|accessdate=24 May 2021}}</ref> The [[European Humanities University]] in Vilnius confirmed she was detained and demanded her release.<ref>{{cite web|last=Sytas|first=Andrius|date=24 May 2021|editor-last=Perry|editor-first=Michael|title=Vilnius university says its student travelling with Protasevich also detained, demands release|url=https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/vilnius-university-says-its-student-travelling-with-protasevich-also-detained-2021-05-24/|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524180816/https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/vilnius-university-says-its-student-travelling-with-protasevich-also-detained-2021-05-24/|archive-date=24 May 2021|access-date=24 May 2021|website=[[Reuters]]}}</ref> Sapega, facing three criminal charges "each of which carry sentences of between 3 and 15 years in prison", remained in custody for two months after her appeal was rejected.<ref>{{Cite news |title=Belarus reportedly deems Russian student Sofia Sapega a suspect in third criminal case |language=en |work=meduza |url=https://meduza.io/en/news/2021/05/27/belarus-reportedly-deems-russian-student-sofia-sapega-a-suspect-in-third-criminal-case |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=27 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210527155850/https://meduza.io/en/news/2021/05/27/belarus-reportedly-deems-russian-student-sofia-sapega-a-suspect-in-third-criminal-case |url-status=live }}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |url=https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/31/belarus-to-try-russian-citizen-detained-on-diverted-flight-a74054 |title=Belarus to Try Russian Citizen Detained on Diverted Flight |date=31 May 2021 |access-date=1 June 2021 |archive-date=1 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210601152219/https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/31/belarus-to-try-russian-citizen-detained-on-diverted-flight-a74054 |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
<br />
Belarusian opposition leader [[Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya]] called for an investigation of the incident by the [[International Civil Aviation Organization]] (ICAO).<ref name="RFE31269351">{{cite web |url=https://www.rferl.org/a/belarus-raman-pratacevich-ryanair-false-bomb-threat/31269351.html |title=Belarusian Journalist Arrested After His Flight Diverted To Minsk After False Bomb Threat |publisher=Radio Free Europe |accessdate=23 May 2021 |archive-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523125749/https://www.rferl.org/a/belarus-raman-pratacevich-ryanair-false-bomb-threat/31269351.html |url-status=live }}</ref> Belarus had placed Protasevich on a list of "individuals involved in terrorist activity" the previous year for his role in [[2020–2021 Belarusian protests|anti-government protests]]. Tsikhanouskaya stated that Protasevich "faces the [[Capital punishment in Belarus|death penalty]]" in Belarus.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.dw.com/en/belarus-diverts-plane-to-arrest-journalist-says-opposition/a-57635240|title=Belarus diverts plane to arrest journalist, says opposition|website=Deutsche Welle|date=23 May 2021|access-date=23 May 2021|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523172128/https://www.dw.com/en/belarus-diverts-plane-to-arrest-journalist-says-opposition/a-57635240|url-status=live}}</ref> According to some passengers, Protasevich asked the cabin crew for [[Right of asylum|refuge]], but was refused because of Ryanair legal agreements.<ref name="POLITICO">{{cite news |author1=Nektaria Stamouli |author2=David M. Herszenhorn |title=Aboard the 'hijacked' plane to Minsk |url=https://www.politico.eu/article/on-board-a-hijacked-plane-to-minsk/ |access-date=25 May 2021 |work=POLITICO |date=24 May 2021 |archive-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195418/https://www.politico.eu/article/on-board-a-hijacked-plane-to-minsk/ |url-status=live }}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.newsweek.com/ryanair-passenger-instagrams-forced-belarus-landing-journalists-arrest-1594202|title=Ryanair passenger documents forced Belarus landing on Instagram|date=24 May 2021|website=Newsweek|access-date=25 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524170159/https://www.newsweek.com/ryanair-passenger-instagrams-forced-belarus-landing-journalists-arrest-1594202|url-status=live}}</ref> As he left the aircraft, Protasevich independently told another passenger that "the death penalty awaits me here".<ref>{{cite news |title=Belarus Ryanair flight diverted: Passengers describe panic on board |url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57180275 |access-date=24 May 2021 |work=BBC News |date=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524120009/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57180275 |url-status=live }}</ref> Another source said that Protasevich faced 15 years' imprisonment for his support of "terrorist groups" in Belarus.<ref name="RFE31270390"/><br />
<br />
According to sources close to Tsikhanouskaya, Protasevich noticed that he was under surveillance at the Athens airport. In his messages, he said that a man next to him at the line and the checkpoint tried to take photos of his travel documents.<ref>{{Cite web |date=23 May 2021 |title=Θρίλερ με πτήση από Αθήνα: Η Λευκορωσία ανάγκασε αεροσκάφος να προσγειωθεί για να συλλάβει ακτιβιστή |trans-title=Thriller in flight from Athens: Belarus forces plane to land to arrest activist |url=https://www.efsyn.gr/kosmos/eyropi/295176_thriler-me-ptisi-apo-athina-i-leykorosia-anagkase-aeroskafos-na-prosgeiothei |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523223941/https://www.efsyn.gr/kosmos/eyropi/295176_thriler-me-ptisi-apo-athina-i-leykorosia-anagkase-aeroskafos-na-prosgeiothei |archive-date=23 May 2021 |access-date=24 May 2021 |website=Efimerida Ton Syntakton |language=el}}</ref> Additionally, Tadeusz Giczan, a member of the [[Nexta]] Telegram channel, which was previously edited by Protasevich, said that officers of the [[State Security Committee of the Republic of Belarus|KGB]] had been on the flight and had "[[Air rage|initiated a fight]] with the Ryanair crew", insisting that there was [[improvised explosive device|a bomb]] on board the aircraft.<ref name="afp_23052021">{{cite web|url=https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/23/eu-outrage-as-belarus-diverts-flight-arrests-opposition-activist-a73985|title=EU Outrage as Belarus Diverts Flight, Arrests Opposition Activist|website=The Moscow Times|date=23 May 2021|agency=AFP|access-date=23 May 2021|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523204156/https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/23/eu-outrage-as-belarus-diverts-flight-arrests-opposition-activist-a73985|url-status=live}}</ref><ref name="ABC77859336">{{cite news|first=Patrick|last=Reevell|title=Ryanair flight forced to land in Belarus with top activist on board|date=24 May 2021|website=ABCNews.go.com|url=https://abcnews.go.com/International/ryanair-flight-forced-land-belarus-top-activist-onboard/story?id=77859336|accessdate=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524032204/https://abcnews.go.com/International/ryanair-flight-forced-land-belarus-top-activist-onboard/story?id=77859336|url-status=live}}</ref> Lina Beišinė, spokeswoman for the Lithuanian Airports state enterprise, told [[Agence France-Presse|AFP]] that Minsk National Airport had said the flight was diverted "due to a conflict between a member of the crew and the passengers".<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.thejournal.ie/belarus-activist-detained-ryanair-plane-5445791-May2021/|title=Diverted Ryanair flight leaves Belarus for Lithuania after exiled activist detained|website=TheJournal.ie|access-date=27 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524130811/https://www.thejournal.ie/belarus-activist-detained-ryanair-plane-5445791-May2021/|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
<br />
In addition to Roman Protasevich and Sofia Sapega, three passengers disembarked in Minsk, including two Belarusians and one Greek citizen.<ref name="greek">{{cite news |last1=Chrysoloras |first1=Nikos |title=Greek Scientist Stayed in Minsk After Forced Ryanair Landing |url=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-25/forced-landing-in-minsk-was-handy-says-passenger-who-stayed |work=Bloomberg |date=25 May 2021 |access-date=27 May 2021 |archive-date=27 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210527072625/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-25/forced-landing-in-minsk-was-handy-says-passenger-who-stayed |url-status=live }}</ref> Following speculation that the passengers were members of the [[State Security Committee of the Republic of Belarus|Belarusian KGB]], Belarusian state television aired a video of three people saying that they had chosen to stay in Minsk; one was a Greek man, who said he was travelling to Minsk anyway and would have otherwise taken a connecting flight from Vilnius to Minsk.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Troianovski |first1=Anton |title=Belarus Is Isolated as Other Countries Move to Ban Flights |url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/24/world/europe/belarus-flight-ban.html |work=The New York Times |date=24 May 2021 |access-date=25 May 2021 |archive-date=25 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210525043330/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/24/world/europe/belarus-flight-ban.html |url-status=live }}</ref> A Greek government official stated that an investigation had not indicated a connection between the Greek national and the incident.<ref name="greek" /> The other two passengers also said that they wanted to disembark in Minsk.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57239521|title=Belarus plane: What we know and what we don't|date=27 May 2021|work=BBC News|access-date=28 May 2021|archive-date=26 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526084205/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57239521|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
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The aircraft was allowed to depart after 7&nbsp;hours on the ground in Minsk,<ref name="POLITICO" /> reaching Vilnius 8.5&nbsp;hours late.<ref name="Herald">{{cite web |url=http://avherald.com/h?article=4e7d7208&opt=0 |title=Incident: Ryanair Sun B738 near Minsk on May 23rd 2021, Greece calls diversion states hijack |first=Simon |last=Hradecky |publisher=The Aviation Herald |date=23 May 2021 |accessdate=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524000848/http://avherald.com/h?article=4e7d7208&opt=0 |url-status=live }}</ref> Passengers noted having to wait 2.5&nbsp;hours without water, toilet breaks or phone calls, while 50 to 60 Belarusian security officers at Minsk airport carried out a search that included checking the belly of the aircraft for bombs.<ref>{{cite web |title=How Belarus Snatched a Dissident Off a Ryanair Plane From Greece |url=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-24/how-belarus-snatched-a-dissident-off-a-ryanair-plane-from-greece |last1=Seputyte |first1=Milda |last2=Dendrinou |first2=Viktoria |date=23 May 2021 |access-date=24 May 2021 |via=bloomberg.com |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524010604/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-24/how-belarus-snatched-a-dissident-off-a-ryanair-plane-from-greece |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
<br />
==Aftermath==<br />
===Belarusian government===<br />
Following the incident, the Belarusian Ministry of Transport announced that it had set up a commission to investigate the forced landing, stating that it would notify the [[ICAO]] and [[IATA]] about the investigation's progress and publish a report shortly thereafter.<ref>{{Cite news |date=24 May 2021 |title=Belarus says it has set up commission to probe Ryanair incident |work=Reuters |url=https://www.reuters.com/article/belarus-politics-investigation-commissio-idUSR4N2N9015|access-date=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524134840/https://www.reuters.com/article/belarus-politics-investigation-commissio-idUSR4N2N9015|url-status=live}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|title=Belarus To Notify ICAO, IATA Of Readiness To Investigate Ryanair Incident - Minsk|url=https://www.urdupoint.com/en/world/belarus-to-notify-icao-iata-of-readiness-to-1258206.html|access-date=24 May 2021|website=UrduPoint|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524134842/https://www.urdupoint.com/en/world/belarus-to-notify-icao-iata-of-readiness-to-1258206.html|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
<br />
On 24 May 2021, the director of the Department of Aviation of the Ministry of Transport of Belarus, Artyom Sikorsky, read out an e-mail letter, which they said was sent to Minsk airport on 23&nbsp;May. This message, signed by "[[Hamas]] soldiers", included demands to [[Israel]] to "cease fire in the [[Gaza strip]]" and for the European Union to end its support of Israel. If the demands were not met, the Ryanair aircraft would be blown up over Vilnius, according to the e-mail.<ref name="onliner.pressconf2405">{{Cite web |last1=Спевак |first1=Дарья |last2=Прокопьева |first2=Ольга |last3=Ошуркевич |first3=Татьяна |date=24 May 2021 |title=Минтранс: сообщение о минировании самолета RyanAir пришло от ХАМАС |trans-title=Ministry of Transport: the message about the mining of the Ryanair plane came on behalf of Hamas |url=https://people.onliner.by/2021/05/24/departament-po-aviacii-zachital-soobshhenie-ob-ugroze-vzryva-samoleta-ryanair |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524143527/https://people.onliner.by/2021/05/24/departament-po-aviacii-zachital-soobshhenie-ob-ugroze-vzryva-samoleta-ryanair |archive-date=24 May 2021 |access-date=24 May 2021 |website=Onliner}}</ref> [[Chancellor of Germany]] [[Angela Merkel]] called the Belarusian explanation "completely implausible".<ref>{{cite web|title=Angela Merkel says Belarus' story 'completely implausible'|website=Deutsche Welle|date=24 May 2021|url=https://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkel-says-belarus-story-completely-implausible/a-57639025|access-date=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524173703/https://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkel-says-belarus-story-completely-implausible/a-57639025|url-status=live}}</ref> Hamas denied that it was in any way connected to the incident,<ref>{{cite news |title=Belarus points to Hamas bomb threat in plane diversion, Hamas rejects claim |url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/belarus-points-hamas-bomb-threat-plane-diversion-hamas-rejects-claim-2021-05-24/ |work=Reuters |date=24 May 2021 |access-date=25 May 2021 |archive-date=26 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526020344/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/belarus-points-hamas-bomb-threat-plane-diversion-hamas-rejects-claim-2021-05-24/ |url-status=live }}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=Hamas rejects Belarus claim over plane bomb threat |url=https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/24/hamas-rejects-belarus-claim-over-plane-bomb-threat |access-date=25 May 2021 |work=www.aljazeera.com |agency=Reuters |publisher=[[Al Jazeera]] |date=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524225138/https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/24/hamas-rejects-belarus-claim-over-plane-bomb-threat |url-status=live }}</ref> criticising the Belarusian government for "archaic thinking" in a world that "no longer accepts such methods".<ref>{{Cite web |last=Салов |first=Дмитрий |title=ХАМАС осудил заявления Минска о том, что движение угрожало взорвать самолёт |trans-title=Hamas condemned Minsk's statements that the movement threatened to blow up the plane |url=https://anna-news.info/hamas-osudil-zayavleniya-minska-o-tom-chto-dvizhenie-ugrozhalo-vzorvat-samolyot/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210527125211/https://anna-news.info/hamas-osudil-zayavleniya-minska-o-tom-chto-dvizhenie-ugrozhalo-vzorvat-samolyot/ |archive-date=27 May 2021 |access-date=27 May 2021 |website=anna-news.info |language=ru-RU}}</ref> Journalists discovered that the e-mail published by Belarusian authorities had been received at 12:57, 24&nbsp;minutes after Belarusian air traffic control notified the Ryanair flight of the bomb threat.<ref>{{Cite news|title=Purported bomb threat Belarus cited in plane interception was sent after flight diverted, e-mail provider says|language=en-US|work=Washington Post|url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/belarus-lukashenko-plane-email/2021/05/27/895b59d6-be5d-11eb-922a-c40c9774bc48_story.html|url-status=live|access-date=27 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210527192440/https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/belarus-lukashenko-plane-email/2021/05/27/895b59d6-be5d-11eb-922a-c40c9774bc48_story.html|archive-date=27 May 2021|issn=0190-8286}}</ref><br />
<br />
On 25 May 2021, the Belarusian Department of Aviation published its transcription of radio communications between Belarusian air traffic control and the FR4978 pilots.<ref name=transcript>{{cite web |url=http://caa.gov.by/ru/news-ru/view/1-203/ |title=RyanAir Emergency Landing Incident (including transcript of radio exchange) |website=Belarusian Department of Aviation |access-date=5 August 2021}}</ref> According to the transcript, the Belarusian flight operator originally told the pilots that they "have information from special services" about the bomb on board, later claiming that the "airport security {{sic|stuff|expected=staff}} informed they received e-mail". When the pilot asked whether it was Vilnius airport that received the e-mail, or Athens, the flight operator said that the bombing alert was received by "several airports". When the pilot asked whose recommendation it had been to land in Minsk, he was informed by the flight operator that it was "our recommendations". The transcript indicated that the pilot initially decided to circle at his present position, then later decided to divert to Minsk airport on the recommendation.<ref name=reuters-20210525>{{cite news |url=https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/they-say-code-is-red-transcript-controller-telling-plane-land-minsk-2021-05-25/ |title='They say code is red': transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk |author=Gabrielle Tétrault-farberAndrew Osborn |publisher=Reuters |date=25 May 2021 |access-date=11 June 2021}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Минтранс Беларуси опубликовал фрагмент переговоров пилота рейса Ryanair с диспетчерами |trans-title=The Ministry of Transport of Belarus publishes a fragment of the negotiations between the Ryanair flight pilot and the dispatchers |url=https://meduza.io/news/2021/05/25/mintrans-belarusi-opublikoval-fragment-peregovorov-pilota-reysa-ryanair-s-dispetcherami |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526122808/https://meduza.io/news/2021/05/25/mintrans-belarusi-opublikoval-fragment-peregovorov-pilota-reysa-ryanair-s-dispetcherami |archive-date=26 May 2021 |access-date=25 May 2021 |website=Meduza |language=ru}}</ref> As of 25&nbsp;May 2021, this transcript could not be confirmed by independent parties.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Khurshudyan |first1=Isabelle |last2=Birnbaum |first2=Michael |last3=Ilyushina |first3=Mary |title=Airlines shun Belarusian airspace, deepening Lukashenko's isolation over bomb hoax to arrest critic |url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/25/belarus-roman-airlines-updates-europe/ |access-date=26 May 2021 |work=Washington Post |date=25 May 2021 |archive-date=26 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526122754/https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/25/belarus-roman-airlines-updates-europe/ |url-status=live }}</ref> According to the [[Wall Street Journal]], Ryanair [[Chief executive officer|CEO]] [[Michael O'Leary (businessman)|Michael O'Leary]] rejected the version of events made by Belarusian government officials and called the situation a "premeditated hijacking".<ref name=wsj1>{{Cite news|url=https://www.wsj.com/articles/ryanair-ceo-calls-belarus-flight-diversion-a-premeditated-hijacking-11622142195|title=WSJ News Exclusive &#124; Ryanair CEO Calls Belarus Flight Diversion a 'Premeditated Hijacking'|first=Benjamin Katz and Daniel|last=Michaels|date=27 May 2021|work=The Wall Street Journal|access-date=28 May 2021|archive-date=28 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210528100011/https://www.wsj.com/articles/ryanair-ceo-calls-belarus-flight-diversion-a-premeditated-hijacking-11622142195|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
<br />
On 26 May 2021, Lukashenko made his first remarks about the incident in a speech to the Belarusian parliament. He said that he acted "legally" and claimed that "ill-wishers from outside the country and from inside the country changed their methods of attack on the state", referring to it as "[[Hybrid warfare|hybrid war]]". He also accused Protasevich of planning a "bloody rebellion", without giving details.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/defiant-belarus-leader-accuses-west-waging-hybrid-war-2021-05-26/|title=Belarus leader says detained journalist was plotting 'bloody rebellion'|website=Reuters|date=26 May 2021|access-date=26 May 2021|archive-date=26 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526201835/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/defiant-belarus-leader-accuses-west-waging-hybrid-war-2021-05-26/|url-status=live}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/26/lukashenko-defends-legal-plane-diversion-to-belarus-kremlin-backs-him-a74013|title=Lukashenko Defends 'Legal' Plane Diversion to Belarus, Kremlin Backs Him|website=The Moscow Times|date=26 May 2021|access-date=26 May 2021|archive-date=26 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526201835/https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/26/lukashenko-defends-legal-plane-diversion-to-belarus-kremlin-backs-him-a74013|url-status=live}}</ref> Lukashenko added that the bomb threat had come from Switzerland; however, the Swiss government said it had no knowledge of any bomb threat on the flight.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.reuters.com/article/belarus-politics-swiss/swiss-govt-says-unaware-of-any-bomb-threat-that-forced-jet-to-land-in-belarus-idUSZ8N2K802A|title=Swiss gov't says unaware of any bomb threat that forced jet to land in Belarus|website=Reuters|date=26 May 2021|access-date=26 May 2021|archive-date=26 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526205719/https://www.reuters.com/article/belarus-politics-swiss/swiss-govt-says-unaware-of-any-bomb-threat-that-forced-jet-to-land-in-belarus-idUSZ8N2K802A|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
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===EU economic sanctions===<br />
The Lithuanian [[Šimonytė Cabinet|cabinet]] banned all flights to and from Lithuania flying through Belarusian airspace, effective 00:00 [[Greenwich Mean Time|GMT]], 25&nbsp;May (03:00 [[Eastern European Summer Time|EEST]]).<ref>{{cite news|date=24 May 2021|title=Lithuania bars airport access to carriers flying over Belarus|url=https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1416413/lithuania-bars-airport-access-to-carriers-flying-over-belarus|publisher=[[Lithuanian National Radio and Television|LRT]]|accessdate=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524122803/https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1416413/lithuania-bars-airport-access-to-carriers-flying-over-belarus|url-status=live}}</ref> British transport secretary [[Grant Shapps]] instructed the [[Civil Aviation Authority (United Kingdom)|Civil Aviation Authority]] to request that British airlines avoid Belarusian airspace. [[Belavia]] had been flying into [[Gatwick Airport]] prior to the incident.<ref name=ITV240521>{{cite news|url=https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-24/uk-condemns-belarus-for-flight-ruse-that-led-to-journalists-arrest-and-threatens-further-sanctions|title=UK tells airlines to avoid Belarusian airspace after flight diversion led to journalist's arrest|date=24 May 2021|publisher=ITV News|accessdate=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524092459/https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-24/uk-condemns-belarus-for-flight-ruse-that-led-to-journalists-arrest-and-threatens-further-sanctions|url-status=live}}</ref> Ukrainian president [[Volodymyr Zelensky]] instructed the government to halt air traffic with Belarus.<ref>{{cite news|url=https://www.unian.info/politics/zelensky-orders-halt-to-air-traffic-with-belarusv-11431084.html|title=Zelensky orders halt to air traffic with Belarus|publisher=Unian|date=24 May 2021|access-date=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524160232/https://www.unian.info/politics/zelensky-orders-halt-to-air-traffic-with-belarusv-11431084.html|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
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The EU held a meeting of leaders on 24 May 2021 in [[Brussels]], Belgium. Before the meeting, Lithuanian President [[Gitanas Nausėda]] called for the EU to impose fresh economic sanctions on Belarus. Calls were made by eight countries for flights over and to Belarus to be banned. Another suggestion was that ground traffic be banned from entering the EU from Belarus.<ref name="BBC57224452">{{cite news|title=Western powers voice outrage as Belarus accused of hijacking plane|publisher=BBC News|url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57224452|accessdate=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524030856/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57224452|url-status=live}}</ref><ref name="Reuters240521"/> At the meeting, it was agreed upon to prohibit EU-based airlines from flying through Belarusian airspace, [[List of air carriers banned in the European Union|ban Belarusian carriers from flying into EU airspace]], and to implement a fresh round of sanctions.<ref>{{cite news|access-date=25 May 2021|title=EU leaders agree on Belarus sanctions after plane diversion|url=https://apnews.com/article/belarus-plane-pratasevich-lukashenko-a9d32d02caea49c880ed1b7a5872e5f7|date=24 May 2021|publisher=AP NEWS|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524202013/https://apnews.com/article/belarus-plane-pratasevich-lukashenko-a9d32d02caea49c880ed1b7a5872e5f7|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
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On 26 May 2021, the European Union and the [[EU Aviation Safety Agency]] issued directives formally halting European airlines from flying over Belarusian airspace.<ref name="Buckley"/> The U.S. and the EU announced plans to impose punitive sanctions targeting key members of Lukashenko's government.<ref name="sanctions">{{cite news|date=29 May 2021|title=US to work with EU on targeted sanctions for Belarus|publisher=France 24|url=https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210529-us-to-work-with-eu-on-targeted-sanctions-for-belarus|access-date=2 June 2021|archive-date=31 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210531094220/https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210529-us-to-work-with-eu-on-targeted-sanctions-for-belarus|url-status=live}}</ref> In early June, Germany briefly stopped issuing flight permits to airlines from Russia for flights to Germany, after two [[Lufthansa]] flights were not issued permits to fly into Russia.<ref>{{cite news|url=https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/02/germany-russia-flights-resume-after-tit-for-tat-cancellations-a74089|newspaper=The Moscow Times|title=Germany-Russia Flights Resume After Tit-for-Tat Cancellations|date=2 June 2021|access-date=3 June 2021|archive-date=2 June 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195419/https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/02/germany-blocks-incoming-russian-flights-in-tit-for-tat-action-a74089|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
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On 4 June 2021, the European Union banned Belarus airlines from its airspace along with other economic sanctions.<ref>{{cite news|title=The EU Bans Belarus Airlines And Reroutes Flights Around Its Airspace|url=https://www.npr.org/2021/06/04/1003173750/eu-bans-belarus-airlines-and-reroutes-flights-around-its-airspace|access-date=4 June 2021|publisher=NPR}}</ref><ref>{{cite news|date=4 June 2021|title=EU bans Belarus airlines as opposition urges G7 sanctions|url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-ban-belarus-overflights-midnight-diplomats-say-2021-06-04/|access-date=4 June 2021|publisher=Reuters}}</ref> On 9&nbsp;June 2021, the United States government announced it would implement new sanctions on Belarus.<ref>{{cite news|last=Hansler|first=Jennifer|date=9 June 2021|title=US Ambassador to Belarus says new sanctions are coming 'soon'|publisher=CNN|url=https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/09/politics/us-ambassador-belarus-sanctions/index.html|url-status=live|access-date=10 June 2021}}</ref> The United States, European Union, United Kingdom and Canada issued a joint statement on 21&nbsp;June 2021 announcing further sanctions against members and supporters of the Belarusian government, as well as Belarusian [[State-owned enterprise|state-owned companies]]. These included individual travel bans, asset freezes and other sanctions.<ref>{{cite news|title=West hits Belarus with new sanctions over Ryanair 'piracy'|url=https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/west-hits-belarus-with-new-sanctions-over-ryanair-piracy/ar-AALhaqr|url-status=dead|publisher=Reuters {{smaller|(via MSN)}}|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210624203433/https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/west-hits-belarus-with-new-sanctions-over-ryanair-piracy/ar-AALhaqr|archive-date=24 June 2021}}</ref> Further measures taken were EU [[Dual-use technology|dual-use]] goods and technology export bans to Belarus, as well as trade bans on petroleum products, [[potassium chloride]] for the Belarusian [[potash]] industry, and goods used for the production of tobacco products.<ref>{{cite web |title=EU imposes sanctions on Belarusian economy |url=https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021/06/24/eu-imposes-sanctions-on-belarusian-economy/ |publisher=Council of the EU |access-date=18 November 2021}}</ref><br />
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Following the EU sanctions, Belarus was accused by Lithuania of instigating the [[2021 Lithuanian migrant crisis]].<ref name="nytimes-lit-migration-crisis">{{cite news|title=In Lithuania, Migrants Find Themselves Caught in a Geopolitical Battle|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/19/world/europe/lithuania-belarus-migrants-european-union.html|first=Valerie|last=Hopkins|date=19 July 2021|accessdate=2 August 2021|newspaper=The New York Times}}</ref><br />
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In early November 2021, a head of Department of Aviation of Belarus Ministry of Transport and Communications Artem Sikorsky stated that the EU sanctions cost the country about $10 million in lost opportunities every month. Sikorsky called on Russia and other [[Eurasian Economic Union|Eurasian Union]] members to respond collectively on aviation extremism from Western countries and to accelerate the creation of a unified aviation administration of all Eurasian countries. During the same press conference he recalled the intention to challenge the EU sanctions in international courts.<ref>{{Cite web|title=Минтранс Белоруссии ответит западным партнёрам на «авиационный экстремизм»|url=https://regnum.ru/news/polit/3415135.html|access-date=2021-11-11|website=ИА REGNUM|language=ru}}</ref><br />
<br />
===International Civil Aviation Organization===<br />
On 27 May 2021, the ICAO Council expressed strong concern about the apparent forced diversion and requested the ICAO Secretariat to undertake a fact-finding investigation under Article&nbsp;55 of the [[Chicago Convention]] for a future session of the council.<ref name=ainonline-20210528>{{cite news |url=https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2021-05-28/icao-council-agrees-investigation-belarus-incident |title=ICAO Council Agrees to Investigation Into Belarus Incident |last=Alcock |first=Charles |website=Aviation International News |date=28 May 2021 |access-date=9 June 2021}}</ref><ref name=internationalairportreview-20210602>{{cite news |url=https://www.internationalairportreview.com/news/159820/icao-investigation-ryanair-flight-fr4978/ |title=ICAO Council to launch an investigation into the apparent forced diversion of Ryanair Flight FR4978 |website=International Airport Review |publisher=Russell Publishing |date=2 June 2021 |access-date=9 June 2021}}</ref><ref name=icao-20210616>{{cite web |url=https://www.icao.int/Newsroom/Pages/Update-on-factfinding-investigation-into-Ryanair-flight-FR4978.aspx |title=Update on fact-finding investigation into Ryanair flight FR4978 |website=International Civil Aviation Organization |date=16 June 2021 |access-date=5 August 2021}}</ref> In November 2021, ICAO announced that the investigation report had been delayed until January 2022, due to the "volume of data submitted and additional state clarifications still being required".<ref name=afp-20211109>{{cite news |url=https://news.yahoo.com/un-delays-report-belarus-flight-143327262.html |title=UN delays report on Belarus flight rerouting to arrest journalist |publisher=Yahoo |agency=AFP |date=9 November 2021 |access-date=11 November 2021}}</ref><br />
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On 17 January 2022, ICAO published the fact-finding report for discussion at an ICAO Council meeting on 31 January.<ref name=icao-20220117>{{cite web |url=https://www.icao.int/Newsroom/Pages/ICAO-releases-factfinding-report-on-Ryanair-FR4978.aspx |title=ICAO releases fact-finding report on Ryanair FR4978 |website=ICAO |date=17 January 2022 |access-date=27 January 2022}}</ref><ref name=icao-202201>{{cite web |url=https://www.politico.eu/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/19/ICAO-Fact-Finding-Investigation-Report_FR497849.pdf |title=Event involving Ryanair Flight FR4978 in Belarus airspace on 23 May 2021 |website=ICAO |date=January 2022 |access-date=27 January 2022}}</ref> The report concluding that the bomb threat was "deliberately false", but could not "attribute the commission of this act of unlawful interference to any individual or State".<ref>{{cite web|title=UN agency report: Bomb threat on Ryanair flight diverted to Belarus ‘deliberately false’|url=https://www.politico.eu/article/un-agency-report-bomb-threat-ryanair-flight-diverted-belarus-deliberately-false/|date=19 January 2022|access-date=19 January 2022|publisher=Politico Europe|first=Mari|last=Eccles}}</ref><br />
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===Russian government===<br />
As Russian aviation authorities did not approve some new routes avoiding Belarus, Air France and Austrian Airlines had to cancel flights from Paris to Moscow on 26&nbsp;May and from Vienna to Moscow on 27&nbsp;May, while several other European carriers, including KLM and a British Airways cargo flight, were allowed to land in Russia using new routes.<ref>{{Cite web|url= https://www.ft.com/content/5c4d07ca-8d15-4a92-9b71-72c83738cdcc|title= Two airlines cancel Moscow flights as EU discusses Belarus sanctions|work= Financial Times|date= 28 May 2021|access-date= 28 May 2021|archive-date= 28 May 2021|archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20210528015745/https://www.ft.com/content/5c4d07ca-8d15-4a92-9b71-72c83738cdcc|url-status= live}}</ref> On 28&nbsp;May 2021, Kremlin spokesman [[Dmitry Peskov]] asserted that "the problems were purely technical in nature, and that the issue should not become an additional irritant in Russia's relations with the European Union".<ref>{{Cite news |date=28 May 2021 |title=Moscow tells airlines to expect delays on Europe-Russia flights |language=en |work=Reuters |url=https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russian-aviation-authority-tells-airlines-expect-delays-europe-russia-flights-2021-05-28/ |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=1 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210601175512/https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russian-aviation-authority-tells-airlines-expect-delays-europe-russia-flights-2021-05-28/ |url-status=live }}</ref> On 1&nbsp;June, Lufthansa was forced to cancel flights to Moscow because authorisations were not received on time, prompting the German government to retaliate by denying Russian airlines access to its airspace.<ref>{{cite news |title=In tit-for-tat move, Germany blocks Russian airlines |url=https://www.seattletimes.com/business/in-tit-for-tat-move-germany-blocks-russian-airlines/ |work=The Seattle Times |agency=Associated Press |date=2 June 2021 |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195432/https://www.seattletimes.com/business/in-tit-for-tat-move-germany-blocks-russian-airlines/ |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
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===Legal investigation===<br />
On 23 May 2021, the Lithuanian [[public prosecutor's office]] opened a pre-trial investigation under the Criminal Code articles of "Hijacking an Aircraft" and "Treatment of Persons Prohibited under International Law".<ref>{{Cite web |last1=Damulytė |first1=Jūratė |last2=Stankevičius |first2=Augustas |last3=Meilutis |first3=Margiris |date=23 May 2021 |title=Generalinė prokuratūra pradėjo ikiteisminį tyrimą dėl orlaivio užgrobimo |trans-title=The Prosecutor General's Office has launched a pre-trial investigation into the hijacking of the aircraft |url=https://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/generaline-prokuratura-pradejo-ikiteismini-tyrima-del-orlaivio-uzgrobimo.d?id=87268825 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524051633/https://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/generaline-prokuratura-pradejo-ikiteismini-tyrima-del-orlaivio-uzgrobimo.d?id=87268825 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |website=[[Delfi (web portal)|Delfi]] |language=lt |accessdate=27 May 2021}}</ref> Because the aircraft is registered in Poland and is subject to Polish law, on 24&nbsp;May 2021, the [[Public Prosecutor General (Poland)|Prosecutor General of Poland]] ordered the opening of an investigation into the case.<ref>{{Cite web |date=24 May 2021 |title=Prokuratura Krajowa potwierdza: Ziobro nakazał wszcząć śledztwo ws. samolotu Ryanair |trans-title=The National Prosecutor's Office confirms: Ziobro ordered an investigation into the Ryanair plane |url=https://www.wprost.pl/kraj/10449975/bialorus-przechwycenie-samolotu-ryanair-bedzie-sledztwo-prokuratury.html |access-date=26 May 2021 |website=Wprost |language=pl |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524140452/https://www.wprost.pl/kraj/10449975/bialorus-przechwycenie-samolotu-ryanair-bedzie-sledztwo-prokuratury.html |url-status=live }}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=24 May 2021 |title=Polski Prokurator Generalny polecił wszcząć śledztwo ws. lądowania samolotu Ryanair w Mińsku |trans-title=The Polish Prosecutor General ordered an investigation into the landing of the Ryanair plane in Minsk |url=https://www.bankier.pl/wiadomosc/Polski-Prokurator-Generalny-polecil-wszczac-sledztwo-ws-ladowania-samolotu-Ryanair-w-Minsku-8118796.html |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526122742/https://www.bankier.pl/wiadomosc/Polski-Prokurator-Generalny-polecil-wszczac-sledztwo-ws-ladowania-samolotu-Ryanair-w-Minsku-8118796.html |archive-date=26 May 2021 |access-date=25 May 2021 |website=Bankier.pl |language=pl}}</ref> On 14&nbsp;June, Protasevich appeared at a press conference, in which Chief of the Belarus Air Force Igor Golub claimed that there was "no interception, no forced diversion from the state border or forced landing of the Ryanair plane". A [[BBC]] journalist present at the conference stated that Protasevich was clearly there under duress.<ref name=BBC57480835/> Since there were four Americans on board the plane, the [[FBI]] investigated the incident, and on 20 January 2022, the [[United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York]] charged four Belarusian officials with conspiracy to commit aircraft piracy. The officials charged have not been arrested.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Weiser |first1=Benjamin |title=U.S. Charges 4 Belarus Officials With Piracy in Forced Landing of Jet |url=https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/20/nyregion/ryanair-belarus.html |access-date=21 January 2022 |work=The New York Times |date=20 January 2022}}</ref><br />
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==Reactions==<br />
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The act was denounced by the United States, United Kingdom, European Union, NATO, and some civil aviation authorities as an act of [[air piracy]] and [[state terrorism]]; a violation of [[international law]], including the [[Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation]]; and an infringement of basic [[human rights]] by an [[authoritarian]] regime.<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-belarus-grounding-of-ryanair-flight-broke-international-law/ar-AAKkkTv|title=Why Belarus Grounding of Ryanair Flight Broke International Law|website=www.msn.com|access-date=30 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524145120/https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-belarus-grounding-of-ryanair-flight-broke-international-law/ar-AAKkkTv|url-status=live}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |date=26 May 2021 |title=Belarus And The Diversion Of Ryanair Flight 4978 |language=en |work=Radio Free Europe |url=https://www.rferl.org/a/diversion-flight-belarus/31274157.html |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=1 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210601073959/https://www.rferl.org/a/diversion-flight-belarus/31274157.html |url-status=live }}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/roman-protasevich-the-young-dissident-who-belarus-diverted-a-ryanair-flight-to-arrest/ar-AAKkHJD|title=Roman Protasevich: The young dissident who Belarus diverted a Ryanair flight to arrest|website=www.msn.com|access-date=30 May 2021|archive-date=25 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210525021536/http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/roman-protasevich-the-young-dissident-who-belarus-diverted-a-ryanair-flight-to-arrest/ar-AAKkHJD|url-status=live}}</ref><ref name="Buckley">{{Cite news |last=Buckley |first=Julia |date=31 May 2021 |title=How Belarus 'hijacking' has redrawn Europe's air map |language=en |work=CNN |url=https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/belarus-flight-ban-aviation-europe/index.html |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=31 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210531002307/https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/belarus-flight-ban-aviation-europe/index.html |url-status=live }}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Suliman |first=Adela |date=4 May 2021 |title=Belarus faces international fury after using fighter jet to land airliner, seize journalist |language=en |work=NBC News |url=https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/belarus-facing-global-fury-after-plane-carrying-opposition-journalist-forced-n1268294 |url-status=live |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210601100021/https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/belarus-facing-global-fury-after-plane-carrying-opposition-journalist-forced-n1268294 |archive-date=1 June 2021}}</ref><ref>{{Cite magazine |last=Applebaum |first=Anne |date=24 May 2021 |title=Other Regimes Will Hijack Planes Too |url=https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/05/belarus-lukashenko-hijack-plane-precedent-dictators/618971/ |url-status=live |magazine=The Atlantic |language=en |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210531182112/https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/05/belarus-lukashenko-hijack-plane-precedent-dictators/618971/ |archive-date=31 May 2021 |access-date=2 June 2021}}</ref><br />
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===National===<br />
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* {{flagicon|Australia}} Australia's [[Minister of Foreign Affairs (Australia)|Foreign Affairs Minister]] [[Marise Payne]] condemned the "forced military interception" of a civilian aircraft and called for the "immediate release" of the arrested Belarusian opposition figure.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.9news.com.au/world/belarus-activist-arrested-after-fighter-jet-intercepts-his-ryanair-flight/72200f04-3b1d-4b4e-97a5-0b61493a6409|title=Australia calls for political activist's release after plane intercepted in Belarus|date=24 May 2021|accessdate=24 May 2021|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523182227/https://www.9news.com.au/world/belarus-activist-arrested-after-fighter-jet-intercepts-his-ryanair-flight/72200f04-3b1d-4b4e-97a5-0b61493a6409|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Belgium}} Belgium's Prime Minister [[Alexander De Croo]] advocated for sanctions, "including banning Belavia from landing at EU airports", and stated that "Roman Protasevich must be immediately released".<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/eu-affairs/170687/belavia-roman-protassevitch-de-croo-calls-to-ban-belarus-airline-from-landing-in-the-eu/|title=De Croo calls to ban Belarus airline from landing in the EU|date=24 May 2021|accessdate=25 May 2021|publisher=[[The Brussels Times]]|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524073642/https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/eu-affairs/170687/belavia-roman-protassevitch-de-croo-calls-to-ban-belarus-airline-from-landing-in-the-eu/|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Canada}} Canada's [[Minister of Foreign Affairs (Canada)|Foreign Affairs Minister]] [[Marc Garneau]] said that the incident was "a serious interference in civil aviation and a clear attack on media freedom".<ref name="AP23May21">{{cite web|url= https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/belarus-arrests-critic-divert-flight-raman-pratasevich-1.6038279|title= Belarus diverts prominent critic's flight, arrests him upon landing|access-date= 15 May 2021|author= The Associated Press|author-link= The Associated Press|work= [[CBC News]]|date= 23 May 2021|archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20210524002230/https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/belarus-arrests-critic-divert-flight-raman-pratasevich-1.6038279|archive-date= 24 May 2021|url-status= live}}</ref> Canadian [[Prime Minister of Canada|Prime Minister]] [[Justin Trudeau]] stated: "the behaviour of the Belarus regime is outrageous, illegal and completely unacceptable... we also condemn this kind of dangerous interference in civil aviation. Canada has existing sanctions in place against Belarus and will be examining further options."<ref name="TR25May2021">{{cite web|url= https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/belarus-roman-protasevich-reaction-1.6039120|title= Belarus will face 'consequences' after flight diverted, journalist pulled from plane|access-date= 15 May 2021|author= Thomson Reuters|author-link= Thomson Reuters|work= CBC News|date= 25 May 2021|archive-url= https://archive.today/20210525183007/https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/belarus-roman-protasevich-reaction-1.6039120?cmp=rss|archive-date= 25 May 2021|url-status= live}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|China}} [[Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs]] spokesman [[Zhao Lijian]] said on 25&nbsp;May 2021: "The facts about the relevant incident [are] not yet clear. Before getting to the bottom of facts and truth, relevant sides should exercise restraint and avoid an escalation of the situation."<ref>{{Cite web|url= https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/t1878445.shtml|title= Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Zhao Lijian's Regular Press Conference on May 25, 2021|date= 25 May 2021|work= Ministry of Foreign Affairs of China|access-date= 26 May 2021|archive-date= 26 May 2021|archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20210526122810/https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/t1878445.shtml|url-status= live}}</ref> On 27&nbsp;May, [[Austrian Airlines]] cancelled a cargo flight from Vienna to Nanjing, because Chinese authorities did not approve the new route avoiding Belarus. A freighter scheduled to go from Nanjing to Vienna on 28&nbsp;May was also cancelled due to the same reason.<ref>{{Cite web |date=28 May 2021 |title=Keine Genehmigung für AUA-Flug nach Moskau |trans-title=No authorization for AUA flight to Moscow |url=https://wien.orf.at/stories/3105757/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210527155755/https://wien.orf.at/stories/3105757/ |archive-date=27 May 2021 |access-date=28 May 2021 |website=ORF.at |language=de}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Greece}} Greek Prime Minister [[Kyriakos Mitsotakis]], from whose country the Ryanair flight originated, described the forced landing of the aircraft as a "shocking act" and said that political pressure on Belarus must be stepped up.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1161644/mitsotakis-ryanair-forced-landing-a-shocking-act/|title=Mitsotakis: Ryanair forced landing a 'shocking act'|website=Kathimerini|date=23 May 2021|access-date=24 May 2021|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523222127/https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1161644/mitsotakis-ryanair-forced-landing-a-shocking-act/|url-status=live}}</ref> Greek Foreign Minister [[Nikos Dendias]] described the event as a "state-sponsored abduction".<ref name=Herald/><br />
* {{flagicon|Hungary}} Hungarian Minister of Foreign Affairs [[Péter Szijjártó]] said that forcing a commercial airliner to land “without any reason whatsoever” was “unacceptable, especially since the airliner in question was travelling between two European Union countries”.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Vaski |first1=Tamás |title=Hungary Supports Belarus' Ban from EU Airspace Over Ryanair Hijacking |url=https://hungarytoday.hu/hungary-belarus-ban-european-union/ |access-date=26 May 2021 |work=Hungary Today |date=25 May 2021 |archive-date=25 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210525160541/https://hungarytoday.hu/hungary-belarus-ban-european-union/ |url-status=live}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Ireland}} Irish [[Taoiseach]] [[Micheál Martin]] described the incident as "a state-sponsored coercive act" and "piracy in the skies".<ref>{{cite news |last1=Clarke |first1=Vivienne |last2=Leahy |first2=Pat |title=Taoiseach says forced landing of Ryanair flight in Belarus is 'piracy in the skies' |url=https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/taoiseach-says-forced-landing-of-ryanair-flight-in-belarus-is-piracy-in-the-skies-1.4573345 |access-date=24 May 2021 |work=The Irish Times |date=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524110959/https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/taoiseach-says-forced-landing-of-ryanair-flight-in-belarus-is-piracy-in-the-skies-1.4573345 |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Italy}} Italian foreign minister [[Luigi Di Maio]] said that the move was "unacceptable" and "a state hijacking". He said that he expected the [[High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy|EU's foreign policy chief]] [[Josep Borrell]] to discuss the matter with NATO Secretary General [[Jens Stoltenberg]]: "It is clear that this is not only a European question but a question of the alliance of values that we share with many of our allies, including overseas."<ref>{{cite web |title=Italy summons Belarus diplomat over 'state hijacking' of Ryanair plane |date=24 May 2021 |url=https://www.thelocal.it/20210524/italys-foreign-minister-condemns-belarus-state-hijacking-of-ryanair-plane/?amp |access-date=25 May 2021 |archive-date=26 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526122805/https://www.thelocal.it/20210524/italys-foreign-minister-condemns-belarus-state-hijacking-of-ryanair-plane/?amp |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Latvia}} Latvian Foreign Minister [[Edgars Rinkēvičs]] described the incident as "contrary to international law" and said that the reaction should be "strong and effective".<ref name=BBC57219860/> On 24&nbsp;May, Latvia expelled Belarus's diplomats in retaliation for Belarus expelling Latvia's staff ([[2021 IIHF World Championship#Belarus flag controversy|IIHF Belarus flag controversy]]).<ref name=BBC57233134>{{cite web |url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-57233134 |title=Belarus flight stop is an international scandal - EU |publisher=BBC News Online |accessdate=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524153613/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-57233134 |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Lithuania}} Lithuanian President [[Gitanas Nausėda]] accused Belarusian authorities of carrying out an "abhorrent action".<ref name=BBC57219860>{{cite news|date=23 May 2021|title=Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', says opposition|url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57219860|work=BBC News|access-date=23 May 2021|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523174629/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57219860|url-status=live}}</ref> He also said: "I call on NATO and [[EU]] allies to immediately react to the threat posed to international civil aviation by the Belarus regime. The international community must take immediate steps that this does not repeat".<ref>{{cite web|date=23 May 2021|title=Belarus forces Ryanair plane bound for Vilnius to land, infuriating Lithuania|url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/belarus-forces-vilnius-bound-ryanair-plane-land-detain-blogger-2021-05-23/|website=Reuters|access-date=23 May 2021|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523175216/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/belarus-forces-vilnius-bound-ryanair-plane-land-detain-blogger-2021-05-23/|url-status=live}}</ref> Lithuanian Prime Minister [[Ingrida Šimonytė]] informed the public that the pre-trial investigation had been started for [[Forced disappearance in Belarus|forced disappearance]] and hijacking of the aircraft.<ref>{{Cite web |date=23 May 2021 |title=Oro uoste Minske nutupdyto lėktuvo keleivius sutikusi Šimonytė: tai negali likti be atsako |trans-title=Šimonytė, who met the passengers of the plane landed at the airport in Minsk: it cannot go unanswered |url=https://www.lrt.lt/mediateka/irasas/2000153701/oro-uoste-minske-nutupdyto-lektuvo-keleivius-sutikusi-simonyte-tai-negali-likti-be-atsako |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523215737/https://www.lrt.lt/mediateka/irasas/2000153701/oro-uoste-minske-nutupdyto-lektuvo-keleivius-sutikusi-simonyte-tai-negali-likti-be-atsako |archive-date=23 May 2021 |access-date=23 May 2021 |website=LRT |language=lt}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Netherlands}} Dutch caretaker Prime Minister [[Mark Rutte]] condemned the "unacceptable and unprecedented" attack.<ref name=Dutchnews240521>{{cite web |url=https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/05/dutch-pm-joins-condemnation-of-ryanair-hijack-klm-continues-flights/ |title=Dutch PM joins condemnation of Ryanair 'hijack', KLM continues flights |date=24 May 2021 |publisher=Dutch News |accessdate=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524084616/https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/05/dutch-pm-joins-condemnation-of-ryanair-hijack-klm-continues-flights/ |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|New Zealand}} The New Zealand Foreign Minister [[Nanaia Mahuta]] said that the incident and the detention of Protasevich "raise[d] serious issues of international law" and called for a "full investigation". The [[New Zealand Cabinet]] also agreed to impose a travel ban on specific individuals associated with the Lukashenko regime and suspended high-level bilateral political and military contact with Belarus.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Miller |first1=Geoffrey |title=Opinion: New Zealand Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta is ruffling feathers as her words are closely watched internationally |url=https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/opinion-new-zealand-foreign-affairs-minister-nanaia-mahuta-is-ruffling-feathers-as-her-words-are-closely-watched-internationally.html |access-date=30 May 2021 |work=[[Newshub]] |date=29 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210530114718/https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/opinion-new-zealand-foreign-affairs-minister-nanaia-mahuta-is-ruffling-feathers-as-her-words-are-closely-watched-internationally.html |archive-date=30 May 2021|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Norway}} The Norwegian foreign minister protested the Belarusian authorities forcing the airplane to land.<ref>{{Cite news |date=26 May 2021 |title=Søreide kritiserer Hviterussland |language=nb-NO |trans-title=Søreide criticizes Belarus |work=NRK |url=https://www.nrk.no/nyheter/soreide-kritiserer-hviterussland-1.15510276 |access-date=26 May 2021 |archive-date=26 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526145005/https://www.nrk.no/nyheter/soreide-kritiserer-hviterussland-1.15510276 |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Poland}} Polish Prime Minister [[Mateusz Morawiecki]] called the incident "an unprecedented act of state terrorism that cannot go unpunished".<ref name=BBC57219860/><br />
* {{flagicon|Portugal}} Portuguese Prime Minister [[António Costa]] accused Lukashenko of "crossing all red lines" with the decision to "hijack a civilian plane flying between two European capitals, two [[NATO]] capitals, with the exclusive objective of detaining a journalist and his partner". At the time of the incident, Portugal held the rotating [[presidency of the Council of the European Union]].<ref>{{Cite web |date=26 May 2021 |title=António Costa acusa regime de Lukashenko de ter ultrapassado todas as linhas vermelhas |trans-title=António Costa accuses Lukashenko's regime of having crossed all red lines |url=https://www.rtp.pt/noticias/mundo/antonio-costa-acusa-regime-de-lukashenko-de-ter-ultrapassado-todas-as-linhas-vermelhas_n1323062 |url-status=live |access-date=23 June 2021 |website=rtp.pt |language=pt}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Russia}} Russian Foreign Minister [[Sergei Lavrov]] said that the way Belarus handled the incident was "an absolutely reasonable approach". State Duma deputy [[Leonid Kalashnikov]], who chairs the Duma's committee on post-Soviet affairs, said that Belarus had the right to choose "those methods that it considers feasible and necessary" to combat threats to its national security.<ref>{{Cite web |url= https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/24/russia-defends-belarus-over-plane-diversion-a73988 |title= Russia Defends Belarus Over Plane Diversion |date= 24 May 2021 |work= Moscow Times |access-date= 27 May 2021 |archive-date= 27 May 2021 |archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20210527021536/https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/24/russia-defends-belarus-over-plane-diversion-a73988 |url-status= live }}</ref> Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman [[Maria Zakharova]] compared the incident to the [[Evo Morales grounding incident|grounding]] of the presidential airplane of [[Bolivian President]] [[Evo Morales]] in Austria in July 2013 as European countries rescinded permission in midflight to refuel or to use their airspace. Washington had falsely suspected that American [[intelligence outsourcing|intelligence contractor]] [[Edward Snowden]], whom the U.S. government wished to arrest, was on board the presidential airplane.<ref>{{Cite news |last=McPartland |first=Ben |date=3 July 2013 |title=Snowden affair: France apologises to Bolivia |work=The Local |url=https://www.thelocal.fr/20130703/snowden-affair-bolivia-furious-with-france/ |url-status=live |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526131038/https://www.thelocal.fr/20130703/snowden-affair-bolivia-furious-with-france/ |archive-date=26 May 2021}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |date=5 July 2013 |title=Spain 'told Edward Snowden was on Bolivia president's plane' |language=en-GB |work=BBC News |url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-23201767 |url-status=live |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://www.webcitation.org/6O7fAs1dm?url=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-23201767 |archive-date=16 March 2014}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Psaki |first=Jen |date=3 July 2013 |title=Daily Press Briefing |url=https://2009-2017.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2013/07/211535.htm#SNOWDEN |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210531045642/https://2009-2017.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2013/07/211535.htm#SNOWDEN |archive-date=31 May 2021 |access-date=2 June 2021 |website=U.S. Department of State}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |title=West weighs action after Belarus diverts plane, arrests reporter |url=https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/24/rift-between-belarus-and-west-grows-after-plane-hijacking |work=Al-Jazeera |date=24 May 2021 |access-date=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524171512/https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/24/rift-between-belarus-and-west-grows-after-plane-hijacking |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Sweden}} Swedish Prime Minister [[Stefan Löfven]] said in a press conference that "the actions taken by Belarus is completely unacceptable and will be met with further sanctions". In the same speech he also called for an "immediate release of journalist Roman Protasevich and his girlfriend Sofia Sapega".<ref>{{Cite news |last=Solander |first=Ivan |date=25 May 2021 |title=Löfven: Oacceptabelt agerande av Belarus |language=sv |trans-title=Löfven: Unacceptable action by Belarus |url=https://www.dn.se/varlden/lofven-oacceptabelt-agerande-av-belarus/ |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=26 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526122751/https://www.dn.se/varlden/lofven-oacceptabelt-agerande-av-belarus/ |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|Ukraine}} Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky instructed the government to suspend direct flights between Ukraine and Belarus and close off Belarusian airspace for the transit of Ukrainian aircraft. Prime Minister [[Denys Shmyhal]] convened an extraordinary cabinet meeting for 25&nbsp;May.<ref>{{Cite news |date=24 May 2021 |title=Зеленський доручив зупинити авіасполучення між Україною та Білоруссю |language=uk |trans-title=Zelensky instructed to suspend flights between Ukraine and Belarus |work=Європейська правда |url=https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/news/2021/05/24/7123560/ |url-status=live |access-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524165034/https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/news/2021/05/24/7123560/ |archive-date=24 May 2021}}</ref><br />
* {{flagicon|UK}} United Kingdom Foreign Secretary [[Dominic Raab]] said that the incident was a "shocking assault on civil aviation".<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57232988|publisher=BBC|title=UK airlines told to avoid Belarusian airspace after journalist arrest|access-date=24 May 2021|date=24 May 2021|archive-date=24 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524152021/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57232988|url-status=live}}</ref> Chairman of the British [[Foreign Affairs Select Committee|Foreign Affairs Committee]] [[Tom Tugendhat]] said: "If it's not an [[act of war]], it's certainly a warlike act".<ref name="Reuters240521">{{cite news |url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fury-over-state-piracy-west-weighs-action-against-belarus-2021-05-24/ |title=Fury over "state piracy" as West weighs action against Belarus |work=Reuters |accessdate=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524095457/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fury-over-state-piracy-west-weighs-action-against-belarus-2021-05-24/ |url-status=dead}}</ref> <br />
* {{flagicon|US}} United States [[President of the United States|President]] [[Joe Biden]] characterized the forced diversion as a "direct affront to international norms". He called the incident and the subsequent video with Protasevich "shameful assaults on both political dissent and the freedom of the press" and called for his release.<ref>{{cite press release |url=https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/05/24/statement-by-president-joe-biden-on-diversion-of-ryanair-flight-and-arrest-of-journalist-in-belarus/ |title=Statement by President Joe Biden on Diversion of Ryanair Flight and Arrest of Journalist in Belarus |publisher=[[White House]] |date=24 May 2021 |accessdate=25 May 2021 |archive-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195419/https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/05/24/statement-by-president-joe-biden-on-diversion-of-ryanair-flight-and-arrest-of-journalist-in-belarus/ |url-status=live }}</ref> [[United States Secretary of State|Secretary of State]] [[Antony Blinken]] condemned the grounding of the flight as a "brazen and shocking act" and demanded an international investigation.<ref name="reuters.com"/> There were American citizens on board the flight.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Ateba |first=Simon |title=Biden admin condemns diversion of Ryanair flight to Belarus to arrest journalist Raman Pratasevich, says the lives of American citizens were endangered |url=https://todaynewsafrica.com/biden-admin-condemns-diversion-of-ryanair-flight-to-belarus-to-arrest-journalist-raman-pratasevich-says-the-lives-of-american-citizens-were-endangered/ |access-date=24 May 2021 |website=Today News Africa |archive-date=23 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523233544/https://todaynewsafrica.com/biden-admin-condemns-diversion-of-ryanair-flight-to-belarus-to-arrest-journalist-raman-pratasevich-says-the-lives-of-american-citizens-were-endangered/ |url-status=live}}</ref> [[United States Secretary of Transportation|Transportation Secretary]] [[Pete Buttigieg]] announced that the [[Presidency of Joe Biden|Biden administration]] and the [[Federal Aviation Administration]] were assessing whether it was safe for American-flagged airlines to continue to operate in Belarusian airspace.<ref name="Ziady">{{cite web |url=https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/24/business/airlines-belarus-air-space/index.html |title=Airlines are avoiding Belarus after 'state-sponsored hijacking' of Ryanair flight |publisher=CNN.com |first=Hannah |last=Ziady |accessdate=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524164102/https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/24/business/airlines-belarus-air-space/index.html |url-status=live }}</ref> The FAA issued a [[Notice to Airmen]] on 28&nbsp;May 2021, formally advising U.S. passenger airliners to use "extreme caution" when flying over Belarus.<ref>{{Cite news |last1=Mohammed |first1=Arshad |last2=Shepardson |first2=David |date=28 May 2021 |title=U.S. urges 'extreme caution' to airlines flying passengers over Belarus |work=Reuters |url=https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/faa-tells-us-passenger-carriers-use-extreme-caution-flying-over-belarus-2021-05-28/ |access-date=2 June 2021 |archive-date=1 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210601202712/https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/faa-tells-us-passenger-carriers-use-extreme-caution-flying-over-belarus-2021-05-28/ |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
<br />
===Multinational organisations ===<br />
[[European Commission]] president [[Ursula von der Leyen]] described the incident as "utterly unacceptable", stating that "any violation of international air transport rules must bear consequences".<ref name="FlightGlobal143868" /><br />
<br />
The International Civil Aviation Organization voiced its deep concern over "the apparent forced landing" of the flight. An ICAO tweet claimed that the forced landing could be in breach of the Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation.<ref>{{cite web|access-date=24 May 2021|title=Ryanair 'hijack' to Minsk could have serious consequences for Belarus|url=https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/ryanair-diversion-hijack-minsk-belarus-b1852406.html|date=23 May 2021|website=[[The Independent]]|author-first=Simon|author-last=Calder|archive-date=23 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523223339/https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/ryanair-diversion-hijack-minsk-belarus-b1852406.html|url-status=live}}</ref><br />
<br />
NATO [[Secretary General of NATO|Secretary-General]] [[Jens Stoltenberg]] tweeted that the grounding of the flight constitutes a "serious and dangerous incident which requires international investigation".<ref name="reuters.com">{{cite web |last1=Sytas |first1=Andrius |last2=Ostroukh |first2=Andrey |title=Belarus forces airliner to land and arrests opponent, sparking U.S. and European outrage |url=https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/belarus-forces-vilnius-bound-ryanair-plane-land-detain-blogger-2021-05-23/ |website=Reuters |date=23 May 2021 |access-date=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524000905/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/belarus-forces-vilnius-bound-ryanair-plane-land-detain-blogger-2021-05-23/ |url-status=live }}</ref> Reuters reported that [[Turkey]] "insisted that any mention of support for more Western sanctions on Belarus, and calls for the release of political prisoners there, would be left out" of the text published on the NATO website.<ref>{{cite news |title=Turkey pushed NATO allies into softening outrage over Belarus plane, diplomats say |url=https://www.reuters.com/world/exclusive-turkey-pushed-nato-allies-into-softening-outrage-over-belarus-plane-2021-05-27/ |work=Reuters |date=28 May 2021 |access-date=29 May 2021 |archive-date=29 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210529171721/https://www.reuters.com/world/exclusive-turkey-pushed-nato-allies-into-softening-outrage-over-belarus-plane-2021-05-27/ |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
<br />
[[United Nations]] [[Secretary-General of the United Nations|Secretary-General]] [[António Guterres]] stated that he was "deeply concerned" over the apparent forced landing and subsequent detention of Roman Protasevich and asked for a full investigation into the incident.<ref>{{cite news |title=Guterres deeply concerned over 'forced landing' and arrest of Belarus opposition journalist, as condemnation grows |url=https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/05/1092642 |access-date=4 June 2021 |work=UN News |publisher=United Nations |date=24 May 2021 |language=en |archive-date=30 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210530122813/https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/05/1092642 |url-status=live }}</ref><br />
<br />
===Legal experts===<br />
British professor of international law Marco Roscini stated that Article&nbsp;1 of the [[Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation|Chicago Convention]] provides that a state has "complete and exclusive sovereignty over the airspace above its territory", so an airplane in a state's airspace can be intercepted and ordered to land, provided the interception process in Annex&nbsp;2 Appendix&nbsp;2 is followed and it complies with the safety requirements of Article&nbsp;3bis. However, in this case the diversion airport was more distant than the destination airport, so could potentially endanger safety, which would be contrary to Article&nbsp;3bis. He noted that if a fake bomb threat had been made, a crime would have been committed under Article&nbsp;1 of the [[Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Civil Aviation]] and Belarus should "facilitate the continuation of the journey of the passengers and crew".<ref name=f24-20210524>{{cite news |url=https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210524-how-belarus-s-aviation-piracy-broke-international-law |title=How Belarus's 'aviation piracy' broke international law |last=Wheeldon |first=Tom |publisher=France 24 |date=24 May 2021 |access-date=9 June 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
Ukrainian [[aviation law]]yer Andriy Huk suggested that the interception by the military aircraft and redirection of the airliner to a more distant airport could have jeopardized the safety of the passengers and crew. He also noted that Annex&nbsp;2 Appendix&nbsp;2 of the Chicago Convention considers interception of civilian aircraft by the military as a very last resort, but the Belarusian military jet took off immediately.<ref>{{Cite web |date=23 May 2021 |title=Самолет Ryanair над Беларусью развернули - его сопроводил в Минск истребитель |trans-title=Ryanair plane was deployed over Belarus - it was escorted to Minsk by a fighter |url=https://www.avianews.com/incidents/2021/05/23/ryanair_plane_diverted_to_minsk/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523160047/https://www.avianews.com/incidents/2021/05/23/ryanair_plane_diverted_to_minsk/ |archive-date=23 May 2021 |access-date=23 May 2021}}</ref><br />
Associate professor at the Russian [[Higher School of Economics]] Gleb Bogush stated that the staging of a bomb threat and the interception of the aircraft by the Belarusian authorities could have jeopardized the passengers and crew and that both the Chicago Convention and [[Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Civil Aviation|1971 Montreal Convention]] should be used in the legal assessment of the case. He also called the situation "a very dangerous precedent".<ref>{{Cite web |title=В Белоруссии задержан экс-главред Nexta. Самолет, в котором он летел, совершил экстренную посадку в Минске |lang=ru |trans-title=Former Nexta editor-in-chief detained in Belarus. The plane in which he was flying made an emergency landing in Minsk. |url=https://www.bfm.ru/news/472690 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210523183637/https://www.bfm.ru/news/472690 |archive-date=23 May 2021 |access-date=23 May 2021 |website=BFM.ru}}</ref><br />
<br />
Using the same two treaties as a basis, aviation lawyers with the international firm [[DLA Piper]] questioned the legality of the events and raised two possible ways that aircraft safety may have been jeopardized. The first is the burden of additional work required by the crew to land safely at an unfamiliar airport, which was further complicated by warnings of an on-board bomb and the presence of a military escort. The second is passengers reacting to news of a diversion, in particular, passengers who were aware of security personnel on the flight and the possibility of arrest as a result of the diversion. They noted that a key factor in assessing the case would be determining the true reason the flight was intercepted and diverted. The same experts also clarify that the aircraft, crew, and passengers were in an area of Belarusian sovereignty and subject to the country's laws while flying above it according to Article&nbsp;1 of the Chicago Convention.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.aerosociety.com/news/the-interception-of-ryanair-flight-fr4978-legal-or-not-carriers-have-been-put-on-notice/ |title=The interception of Ryanair Flight FR4978 – legal or not, carriers have been put on notice |publisher=[[Royal Aeronautical Society]] |first1=Tony |last1=Payne |first2=Eric |last2=Oehy |access-date=5 June 2021 |date=4 June 2021}}</ref><br />
<br />
===Airlines===<br />
Ryanair [[chief executive officer|CEO]] Michael O'Leary stated that the event was a "state-sponsored hijacking" and that Ryanair believes that "there were some [Belarusian] KGB agents offloaded at the airport as well".<ref name="RFE31270390" /><ref name="BBC57224452" /> [[Cyprus]]-registered [[Avia Solutions Group]] announced that their airlines will no longer use Belarusian airspace.<ref name="Ziady"/> On 24&nbsp;May, Hungarian airline [[Wizz Air]] rerouted a flight from [[Kyiv]], Ukraine, to [[Tallinn]], Estonia, to avoid Belarusian airspace.<ref name="Marketwatch11621855330">{{cite web |url=https://www.marketwatch.com/story/airlines-reroute-flights-to-avoid-belarus-after-forced-landing-11621855330?mod=home-page |title=Airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus after forced landing |publisher=The Wall Street Journal |work=Market Watch |first=Benjamin |last=Katz |accessdate=24 May 2021 |archive-date=2 June 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195420/https://www.marketwatch.com/story/airlines-reroute-flights-to-avoid-belarus-after-forced-landing-11621855330?mod=home-page |url-status=live }}</ref> Latvian airline [[AirBaltic]] announced on 24&nbsp;May that it would no longer fly in Belarusian airspace until the situation became clearer.<ref name=Reuters240521/><ref name=Marketwatch11621855330/> Dutch airline [[KLM]] stated that it was temporarily halting flights to Belarus.<ref name=Reuters240521/> [[Scandinavian Airlines]] (SAS) announced that in line with instructions from the [[Swedish Transport Agency]], the twice-weekly flight between [[Oslo, Norway|Oslo]] and Kyiv would be rerouted to avoid Belarusian airspace.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/24/europe/belarus-ryanair-flight-raman-pratasevich-hijacking-intl/index.html |title=Belarus accused of 'state-sponsored piracy' as fury mounts over diversion of Ryanair flight. |publisher=CNN.com |first=Sheena |last=McKensie |accessdate=24 May 2021 |archive-date=24 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524145225/https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/24/europe/belarus-ryanair-flight-raman-pratasevich-hijacking-intl/index.html |url-status=live }}</ref> Lufthansa announced that it would suspend operations in Belarusian airspace until further notice.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Lufthansa fliegt vorerst nicht mehr über Belarus |trans-title=Lufthansa no longer flies via Belarus for the time being |url=https://www.zdf.de/uri/004e1ca2-c51f-4bfe-95c7-45f4bb218884 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210602195423/https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/belarus-luftraum-lufthansa-100.html |archive-date=2 June 2021 |access-date=24 May 2021 |website=www.zdf.de |language=de}}</ref> [[Singapore Airlines]] (SIA) also began rerouting flights bound for Europe to avoid Belarusian airspace from 25&nbsp;May, citing safety concerns.<ref>{{cite news |author1=Kurt Ganapathy |title=Singapore Airlines reroutes flights to avoid Belarus airspace after forced landing of Ryanair plane |url=https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-airlines-belarus-airspace-flights-roman-protasevich-14881388 |access-date=25 May 2021 |work=[[CNA (TV network)|CNA]] |date=25 May 2021 |archive-date=25 May 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210525084952/https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-airlines-belarus-airspace-flights-roman-protasevich-14881388 |url-status=live }}</ref> On 15&nbsp;June, O'Leary appeared before a British parliamentary committee to answer questions about the incident. He called the event a "premeditated breach of global aviation rules".<ref name=BBC57480835/><br />
<br />
===Other===<br />
[[File:Торунь. Акцыя салідарнасці з Беларуссю (2021-05-24) 2.jpg|thumb|Protest in support of Protasevich in [[Toruń]], Poland, 25&nbsp;May 2021]]<br />
[[Bucharest]]'s [[Sector 1 (Bucharest)|Sector 1]] mayor [[Clotilde Armand]], following calls from historian [[Andrei Oișteanu]], began preparations to rename the street where the Belarusian embassy is located in Romania to Roman Protasevich Street, citing that the consequence of this gesture of support for the detained journalist would imply that "all correspondence to and from the embassy would bear the dissident journalist's name and all Belarusian diplomats would have 'Roman Protasevich' printed on their business cards".<ref>{{Cite web |last=Buciu |first=Laura |title=O stradă din Sectorul 1 ar putea lua numele jurnalistului disident Roman Protasevichi. Anunțul dat de Clotilde Armand |trans-title=A street in Sector 1 could be named after dissident journalist Roman Protasevichi. The announcement given by Clotilde Armand |url=https://www.mediafax.ro/social/o-strada-din-sectorul-1-ar-putea-lua-numele-jurnalistului-disident-roman-protasevichi-anuntul-dat-de-clotilde-armand-20102054 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526185114/https://www.mediafax.ro/social/o-strada-din-sectorul-1-ar-putea-lua-numele-jurnalistului-disident-roman-protasevichi-anuntul-dat-de-clotilde-armand-20102054 |archive-date=26 May 2021 |access-date=27 May 2021 |website=Mediafax.ro |language=ro}}</ref> The initiative led to the drafting of a letter from eight members of the European Parliament suggesting that all EU member states follow suit in renaming their respective streets hosting Belarusian diplomatic missions around the bloc in support of Protasevich in order to send "a strong message to [the] Belarus regime".<ref>{{Cite web|date=26 May 2021|title=Alin Mituta on Twitter|url=https://twitter.com/alinmituta/status/1397609765467951104|url-status=live|access-date=27 May 2021|website=Twitter|language=en|archive-date=26 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210526174520/https://twitter.com/AlinMituta/status/1397609765467951104}}</ref> <br />
<br />
The [[International Federation of Air Line Pilots' Associations]] and the [[European Cockpit Association]] issued a joint statement calling the event "an unprecedented act of unlawful interference" and "state-sponsored hijacking". They called for an independent inquiry into the event.<ref name=Herald/><br />
<br />
On 28 May 2021, the [[European Broadcasting Union]] (EBU) announced that it would be suspending the membership of Belarusian broadcaster [[National State Television and Radio Company of the Republic of Belarus]] (BTRC), citing that they were "particularly alarmed by the broadcast of interviews apparently obtained under duress". BTRC was given two weeks to respond before the suspension came into effect. As a result, this prevents BTRC, and therefore, Belarus, from participating in or broadcasting events such as the [[Eurovision Song Contest]] and other events sanctioned by the EBU.<ref>{{Cite web|title=EBU Executive Board agrees to suspension of Belarus Member BTRC|url=https://www.ebu.ch/news/2021/05/ebu-executive-board-agrees-to-suspension-of-belarus-member-btrc|access-date=29 May 2021|website=EBU|date=28 May 2021|language=en|archive-date=28 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210528160953/https://www.ebu.ch/news/2021/05/ebu-executive-board-agrees-to-suspension-of-belarus-member-btrc|url-status=live}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|title=Belarus: EBU Executive Board agrees to suspend Belarusian state broadcaster BTRC|url=https://wiwibloggs.com/2021/05/28/belarus-ebu-executive-board-agrees-to-suspend-belarusian-state-broadcaster-btrc/265548/|access-date=29 May 2021|website=wiwibloggs|date=28 May 2021|language=en|archive-date=28 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210528134436/https://wiwibloggs.com/2021/05/28/belarus-ebu-executive-board-agrees-to-suspend-belarusian-state-broadcaster-btrc/265548/|url-status=live}}</ref> Belarus had already been disqualified from the [[2021 Eurovision Song Contest]], as its chosen song and the suggested replacement broke rules on political statements in songs selected for the competition.<ref name=Eurovision>{{Cite web|date=26 March 2021|title=EBU statement on Belarusian participation|url=https://eurovision.tv/story/ebu-statement-on-belarusian-entry-2021|access-date=1 June 2021|publisher=European Broadcasting Union (EBU)|archive-date=1 May 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210501015119/https://eurovision.tv/story/ebu-statement-on-belarusian-entry-2021|url-status=live}}</ref> BTRC was then expelled from the EBU on 1&nbsp;July 2021.<ref>{{cite web |last1=Adams |first1=Oliver |title=Belarus: EBU expels BTRC from union – Belarus no longer eligible to compete in Eurovision |url=https://wiwibloggs.com/2021/06/30/belarus-ebu-expels-belarus-broadcaster-btrc-not-eligible-for-eurovision/265914/ |publisher=Wiwibloggs |access-date=1 July 2021 |date=30 June 2020}}</ref><br />
<br />
In December 2021, air controller Oleg Galegov who was present in the tower during the interception defected to Poland. In his statement he confirmed that KGB officers were present in the tower during the operation and took control in the crucial moment of communicating the bomb threat to the pilot.<ref>{{Cite news|last=Higgins|first=Andrew|last2=Dapkus|first2=Tomas|date=2021-12-08|title=Defector Helps Build Case Against Belarus Over Ryanair Flight It Forced Down|language=en-US|work=The New York Times|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/world/europe/belarus-poland-ryanair-plane-dissident.html|access-date=2021-12-15|issn=0362-4331}}</ref><br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*[[Arrest of Abdolmalek Rigi]]<br />
*[[Evo Morales grounding incident]], a flight forced to land in Austria while falsely suspected of transporting [[Edward Snowden]]<br />
*[[Extraordinary rendition]]<br />
*[[2021 Belarus-European Union border crisis]]<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*{{Wikinews-inline|Austrian Airlines cancels Moscow-bound flight after Russia refuses a reroute outside Belarusian airspace}}<br />
*{{Wikinews-inline|Canada, EU, UK, US impose sanctions on Belarus over Ryanair hijacking}}<br />
<br />
{{Ryanair}}<br />
{{Aviation accidents and incidents in 2021}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:2020–2021 Belarusian protests]]<br />
[[Category:2021 in Belarus]]<br />
[[Category:2021 in Greece]]<br />
[[Category:2021 in Lithuania]]<br />
[[Category:2021 in international relations]]<br />
[[Category:2020s in Minsk]]<br />
[[Category:Accidents and incidents involving the Boeing 737 Next Generation]]<br />
[[Category:Aircraft hijackings in Europe]]<br />
[[Category:Alexander Lukashenko]]<br />
[[Category:Aviation accidents and incidents in 2021]]<br />
[[Category:Aviation accidents and incidents in Belarus]]<br />
[[Category:Belarus–European Union relations]]<br />
[[Category:Belarus–Greece relations]]<br />
[[Category:Belarus–Lithuania relations]]<br />
[[Category:Belarus–Russia relations]]<br />
[[Category:Russia–European Union relations]]<br />
[[Category:International incidents]]<br />
[[Category:May 2021 events in Europe]]<br />
[[Category:Ryanair|4978]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rlevse&diff=372838408User talk:Rlevse2010-07-11T02:58:43Z<p>Hmm...: /* User stats, editors and outing prevention */</p>
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== Re: Hmm ==<br />
<br />
I stand by my comments, as I believe that they are an accurate representation of the facts. In the future I will be restricting my edits to non-controversial and non-DYK issues, as for this and a number of other reasons, I have lost faith in the DYK process. Kind regards, [[User:Quasihuman|Quasihuman]] ([[User talk:Quasihuman|talk]]) 22:22, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Disagreements happen all the time on wiki. It's inherent in the process and I've had my own DYK run ins, but I still enjoy it. Here, you're basically saying "if DYK/wiki doesn't agree with my views, they're hosed and I'm not participating". That's your choice but you're setting yourself up for failure within the wiki model. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:24, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Your definition of failure may be different to mine; mostly, I'm happy with researching and editing articles, I have no real desire to "succeed" in any way other than contributing to an article in a way that makes me happy. My attempt at reviewing DYK nominations was an attempt to learn more about what makes an article good, and to develop skill at critique which could be applied to my own work both on and off wiki. Thanks, [[User:Quasihuman|Quasihuman]] ([[User talk:Quasihuman|talk]]) 22:36, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Thanks ==<br />
<br />
I just wanted to say thanks for all the good work you are doing on DYK. I can see it's very hard and time consuming, and want you to know it's appreciated. [[User:Crum375|Crum375]] ([[User talk:Crum375|talk]]) 22:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Why thank you, that's very kind and much appreciated. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:51, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Seconded, particularly for sorting out the leftovers at the bottom of the pile that no-one else seems to want to touch! [[User:Bencherlite|Bencherlite]][[User talk:Bencherlite|<i><sup>Talk</sup></i>]] 18:44, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Why thanks again, and yes, we can use more help in the leftovers. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:28, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK miss ==<br />
<br />
I just saw that I overlooked my DYK notification and that you [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Did_you_know&diff=369818012&oldid=369817942 deleted] the nom. The hook was actually properly cited by the closest subsequent reference, which cited several consecutive sentences. I didn't really develop the article, but the hook was O.K.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|C]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|BIO]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:FOUR]]) </small> 06:53, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:But there is still the busted ref, number 1, that is used twice. It renders a "server not found" error and I don't think it should be in DYK in that state. If someone can fix that I will put it into a queue. NRHP probably rearranged their web site or there's a typo in the URL.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 10:13, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I gave it a look-see. The record isn't digitized yet in the NRHP/NPS system and the old NRIS system seems to be down either for the moment or good, not sure which. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 10:35, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:::I tried again and FOUND the [http://gis.hpa.state.il.us/hargis/Reports/Reports.aspx?RefNumVariable=223381&FormType=Short link], from the Illinois Historic Preservation Agency. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 10:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::::I have added the newly found link to the [[Illinois Institute of Technology Academic Campus]] page. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 10:51, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::::::Hmm, that's giving me an "HTTP status 404 error". Would you mind making it a ref but leave out the URL? <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 11:55, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Sure, gimme one second. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 11:57, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::::::::[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Illinois_Institute_of_Technology_Academic_Campus&diff=369899165&oldid=369892198 Done]. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 11:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:Sorry for the misunderstandig, but it's ref one Tony and I are talking about, not ref 3. I've reset the version. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 14:27, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I've marked that as a dead link and put the hook in a prep queue.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 18:39, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Oooops! I just picked the ref that was listed as #1 on the page. My mistake, but at least you know where to find a link when you need one. :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 00:18, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
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==Revision deletion==<br />
For this [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Matthew_McConaughey&action=historysubmit&diff=369961135&oldid=369961009 DIFF]----[[User:Morenooso|moreno oso]] ([[User talk:Morenooso#top|talk]]) 19:37, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:either the diff is wrong or it was already done. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==request by user:congressionalstaff==<br />
Good day Rlevse may I respectfully request your kind assistance as an active editor of the Wikipedia article [[List of United States Naval Academy alumni (legislators)]] and as the one who worked to have it promoted to featured list on Wikipedia. I would like to include the picture of a noted alumni who had set a record not only during his stay at the US Naval Academy in Annapolis but also made historical impact as a politician and public servant in the Philippines, Congressman [[Roilo Golez]]. While at the academy he excelled in academics as a consistent Superintendent's List midshipman, in sports becoming a four-year undefeated academy boxing champion in his weight division setting a record in then more than 100 years of academy boxing, and in leadership having held the position of Company Commander which is a rare distinction for foreign midshipmen. In the Philippines, he had a long and productive career as a public servant having been elected in landslide victories in 1992, 1995, 1998, 2004, 2007, and 2010, serving as Representative of the City of Paranaque in the 9th, 10th, 11th, 13th and 14th Congress of the Philippines and will be serving in the incoming 15th Congress of the Philippines on his unprecedented sixth term in office as a congressman. He is also the President of the U.S. Naval Academy Alumni Association, Philippine Chapter and is a Life Member of the U.S. Naval Academy Alumni Association. He had also served as the President of the Boy Scouts of the Philippines, Governor of the Philippine National Red Cross, and President of the Amateur Boxing Association of the Philippines. I had tried to include his picture but was instructed by MBK004 to start a discussion on it first. Thank you very much in advance for your time and invaluable inputs. {{unsigned|Congressionalstaff}}<br />
:He certainly deserves an article but I'm not sure about a photo on the list. He's mentioned in the narrative above the list but most others aren't.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:20, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Sir Rlevse thank you very much for your prompt response. May I ask what would be the standard or basis required or observed by the Wikipedia community in placing the photo of a US Naval Academy alumni beside the list, in addition, for an alumni not so included to have his picture also placed beside the list. It would help a lot of people researching on the subject matter to have the picture of the mentioned alumnus right there on the article itself, it is a short list after all and the picture will just be small for which the space beside the table is ample enough to accomodate. At the very least, it could accomodate one more, please. [[User:Congressionalstaff|Congressionalstaff]] ([[User talk:Congressionalstaff|talk]]) 03:01, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::No need for calling me sir ;-) One thing is that there are already pics there and people really don't like for the row of pics to run below the list of names so. One would have to be swapped out. I suggest you start a chat on the list's talk page, post on MBK's page to see what he says, and see what other people say. Leave the talk open at least a week and we'll see how it's going.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 03:43, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Ok thanks I really appreciate your comments and will do as advised, btw I just checked the article's page again [[List of United States Naval Academy alumni (legislators)]] and the list of names now run quite below the row of pics on the side admitting perhaps the placement of two more pics without running below the list of names. I hope this request for one more pic may be given due course by the Wikipedia admins, sysop such as you and the rest of the Wikipedia community. Thanks so much, I'm learning to appreciate the quality and amount of collaborative work that goes into every article on Wikipedia. No wonder it is of the status it is today as a widely used and most visited reference website. [[User:Congressionalstaff|Congressionalstaff]] ([[User talk:Congressionalstaff|talk]]) 05:16, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Another Keegscee Sock==<br />
The socks keep breaking through, [[User:Xobni lluf]] is the newest. Kinda sad the user just doesn't seem to be smart enough to get they aren't welcome. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 04:05, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:Fastily blocked them, but the rangeblocks don't seem to be holding them back. They must be using other proxies. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 04:31, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::New one: [[User:Starbrighttonight]]. He claims he doesn't cause any drama, I actually cause the drama reporting him. Stupid sock is stupid. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 05:04, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:::Yes, multiple providers. Did what I could on these too.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 10:18, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Excellent, thank you :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 19:35, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
== Today's Wikipedian ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rlevse, that is extremely kind of you, and very much appreciated. Beyond that, I'd like to thank you for undertaking the TW effort in general, which I am sure helps spread good will around the project. I just hope that between the tireless work you do at DYK, the TW, and other wiki-things, you get a chance to take time off. Thanks again, [[User:Crum375|Crum375]] ([[User talk:Crum375|talk]]) 00:24, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks and ;-) <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:52, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ursula Buckel ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for approving her (and others) so promptly! I'm used to waiting for days and weeks until someone looks ... and didn't want to nominate too late. I was planning to expand both the singer and the cantata, promised. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 20:13, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:No problem.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 20:38, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Archiving my talk page ==<br />
<br />
Just wait a few days — I archive at the end of every third month, so it will be archived by the end of the week. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 15:39, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I've proposed a new hook for St. Joseph's Church. Thanks for the note; I proposed the original hook because I couldn't think of anything better, but I think my new proposal is better. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 15:52, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for persisting and putting up with me on this; the final result is much better because of your help. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 05:00, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::No problem. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 09:51, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Clint Eastwood==<br />
The article was split from the main article with the intention of condensing it like I did with the 1960s and 1970s. Unfortunately somebody nominated it for DYK....[[User:Dr. Blofeld| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">'''''Dr. Blofeld'''''</font>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Dr. Blofeld| <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat</font></font color> ]]</sup> 15:41, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well Gato disapproved it. So now the main needs compressed to a summary or the fork needs deleted. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:49, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RE: Happy Merovingian's Day! ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I really appreciate the recognition, thanks very much.<br><br />
Best regards and happy editing! --[[User:Merovingian|Merovingian]] ([[User talk:Merovingian|T]], [[Special:Contributions/Merovingian|C]], [[Special:Log/Merovingian|L]]) 01:39, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Update balance== <br />
<br />
I notice you seem to have prepared a few updates recently with more than four bio hooks. An update should never have more than four bios, unless it's absolutely unavoidable (ie, nothing but bio hooks left). Given that there are plenty of verified hooks at Suggestions ATM, it's not as if there aren't plenty of other hooks to choose from. <br />
<br />
And BTW, don't forget to choose a funny/quirky hook for the last slot - I've just noticed a few so-so ones lately, although I don't know whose updates they were. [[User:Gatoclass|Gatoclass]] ([[User talk:Gatoclass|talk]]) 05:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Recognitions ==<br />
<br />
I put those guys up there because Ed did go ahead and barnstar them. If you want to change to your sig that's cool.--[[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris (クリス • フィッチュ)]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 19:13, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Ed put them there with his sig, then you changed them to your sig. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 21:43, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== My Appreciation ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rlevse,<br />
<br />
Thank you so much for the barnstar! I found it very encouraging. Your "Wikipedian of the day" initiative is a great way of telling other editors that their years of contributions are appreciated. Kudos for promoting cooperation throughout the project.<br />
<br />
Happy editing,<br />
<br />
[[User:Neelix|Neelix]] ([[User talk:Neelix|talk]]) 02:34, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 09:51, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== ''The Wikipedia Signpost'': 28 June 2010 ==<br />
<br />
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"><br />
{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/{{#switch: 1<br />
| 1 = 2010-06-28<br />
| 2 = Volume 6, Issue 26<br />
| 3 = 2010-06-21<br />
| 4 = 2010-07-05<br />
}}}}<br />
</div><br />
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">'''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single|Single-page]] &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] &middot; [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) 21:59, 29 June 2010 (UTC)</div><br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0054 --><br />
<br />
== [[Wikipedia:Featured article review/Bhumibol Adulyadej/archive1]] ==<br />
<br />
I have nominated [[Bhumibol Adulyadej]] for a featured article review. [[User:Savidan|Savidan]] 21:20, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Long overdue. I gave up trying to save it long ago.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== WikiCup 2010 June newsletter ==<br />
<br />
[[File:Trophy.png|right]]<br />
We're half way through 2010, and the end of the WikiCup is in sight! Round 3 is over, and we're down to our final 16. Our pool winners were {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Ian Rose}} (A), {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Sturmvogel_66}} (B, and the round's overall leader), {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|ThinkBlue}} (C) {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Casliber}} and {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|TonyTheTiger}} (D, joint), but, with the scores reset, everything is to play for in our last pooled round. The pools will be up before midnight tonight, and have been selected randomly by J Milburn. This will be the toughest round yet, and so, as ever, anything you worry may not receive the necessary attention before the end of the round (such as outstanding GA or FA nominations) is welcome at [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews]], and please remember to continue offering reviews yourself where possible. As always, the judges are available to contact via email, IRC or their talk pages, and general discussion about the Cup is welcome on the [[WT:CUP|WikiCup talk page]].<br />
<br />
Though unaffiliated with the WikiCup, July sees the [[Wikipedia:The Great Wikipedia Dramaout/3rd|third Great Wikipedia Dramaout]]- a project with not dissimilar goals to the WikiCup. Everyone is welcome to take part and do their bit to contribute to the encyclopedia itself.<br />
<br />
If you're interested in the scores for the last round of the Cup, please take a look at [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/History/2010/Round 3]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/History/2010/Full/Round 3]]. Our thanks go to {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Stone}} for compiling these. As was predicted, Group C ended up the "Group of Death", with 670 points required for second place, and, therefore, automatic promotion. This round will probably be even tougher- again, the top two from each of the two groups will make it through, while the twelve remaining participants will compete for four wildcard places- good luck everyone! <small>If you wish to start receiving or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send]].</small> [[User:J Milburn|J Milburn]], [[User:Fox|Fox]] and [[User:The ed17|The ed17]]<br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0055 --><br />
<br />
== Me day ==<br />
<br />
Though I know not why (or even how) it came to pass that I was selected as a "Day" recipient, thank you.<br />
--[[User:Piledhigheranddeeper|Piledhigheranddeeper]] ([[User talk:Piledhigheranddeeper|talk]]) 01:12, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RFC closed ==<br />
<br />
Hi, in your ARBCOM hat - I was looking for some feedback on on the way forward as the RFC discussion has closed concerning what we are to do with the low results returned in the checkuser and oversight elections [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Checkuser_and_oversighter_selection#.22Immediate_steps.22_poll_by_FT2 "Immediate steps" poll by FT2] and is in need of assessment and the next step, whatever that is to be, regards.[[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 23:35, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well, there's not much of a consensus there for anything is there. Considering there is a dire need for more CUs and OSs, that is indeed a conundrum. We're discussing it.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:03, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your attention. [[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 01:11, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK prep 2 ==<br />
<br />
Hi, not sure if you've started trying to compile Prep2, but I just uploaded a set there. Sorry, I think I forgot to save the Inuse template since I don't see it in the history. <i>[[User:Grondemar|&ndash;]][[User talk:Grondemar|Grondemar]]</i> 16:21, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:No biggie, I'll put mine in extra. Tks for letting me know. I am pulling a set now. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 16:22, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== True/Slant ==<br />
<br />
Hello. I'm a bit concerned about [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Did_you_know&diff=prev&oldid=371360327#Articles_created.2Fexpanded_on_June_22 the True/Slant matter], and the way it was handled. First, for reasons articulated there by a number of editors, I don't think there was any legitimate BLP issue. It is not enough for one to claim there is such an issue; that must in fact be the case. What was argued -- that the hook had no BLP issue, and most of the article underlying the hook had no BLP issue, but one sentence in the article did have a BLP issue, because that sentence said a person held a sign with a spelling error, is not IMHO a legitimate BLP issue. The BLP argument was used by the same editor in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Arrest_of_Two_New_Jersey_Men_Bound_for_Somalia an AFD discussion]. He called it a "clear BLP violation". Not one editor agreed with him. The article was kept a "Keep". Here, it is even more attenuated -- as the phrase is not even in the hook (though I obviously feel were it in the hook, the answer would be the same). The hook was approved. Gato said no decision can be made, as conversation is ongoing. Then, with most of the editors disagreeing with Gato, you come in to the still-ongoing-discussion and close it as disapproved.<br />
<br />
If Gato was wrong that the editor could not approve the discussion, it should have been approved. If he was right, because the conversation was ongoing, then you also should not be able to close the discussion as a disapprove.<br />
<br />
IMHO. Respectfully. I would ask, for the foregoing reasons, that you restore the discussion.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 00:53, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:BLP standards for DYK, since they appear on the main page, are higher than for article space. I'm not about to put that on the main page with all the ongoing concerns. That is alone is enough to disapprove it, but in addition nor will I keep it there on hold for as long as a BLPN takes.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:59, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::"All the ongoing concerns" have been demonstrated to be just so many words IMHO, and in the opinion of most of the editors in that discussion. The editor who posed the same concerns at AfD was informed by lack of any agreement that his assertions of "clear BLP violation" were just words -- not the case. I see the same here; even worse, as the hook itself lacks any such claimed violation whatsoever. The standards applied at DYK (which you refer to) are reflected at the DYKs that I pointed to. They reflect that the higher standard you refer to allows for hooks describing people as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:DYKSTATS 10 most wanted fugitives] and as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:DYKSTATS be-headers] (with pictures to boot), and these hooks are among those we boast about as having the most hits. This clearly falls well within that standard. I don't think its even close. I'm concerned as well with the double standard -- the approver cannot close the discussion because it is ongoing, but the non-approver can? I'm struggling to appreciate how that can be. Thanks for your thoughts.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:07, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I'm not changing my mind. Recall the Arabian DYK issue. That's two BLP-related DYK noms with significant concerns you've been at the center at in as many weeks.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:13, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*Yes. With the same Gato -- whose edits are discussed there--at the center of it. And the other hook was one that was added to a queue, but then you deleted from a queue--so you were also at the center of it. <br />
<br />
I fail to see how I am being treated consistently, since you promote for DYK an article that says "Montoya '''had previously been investigated in July 2006 for sexual assault that involved vaginal penetration on Nevaeh, then 23 months old'''", and that's just fine. But when I have an article that mentions '''a spelling error''', its not. I'm slightly troubled that there may be a double standard. And that you've again not indicated why you can close a conversation in mid-discussion, but an approver cannot. I would like to appeal this matter -- what would you suggest is the appropriate manner? I would like it to be reviewed by people other than those who have given us and Gato awards -- third parties who are more arms'length -- as I think we can then get the fairest result. Many thanks.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:19, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::That was not the hook used in Neveah's article, you're putting the problematic bit right in the hook. Spelling has nothing to do with it. The Arabian thread is where I learned how much the DYK BLP standard is higher is. I explained why I closed this particular nom. If you want more review, go ahead, but again, I'm not changing my mind. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:26, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*No. Respectfully--you are absolutely wrong. You apparently closed the True/Slant discussion without reading the hooks. --[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:31, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Totally untrue. Let me elaborate on one thing I said above about ongoing BLPN, I'm not putting an article with a BLPN up as DYK hook, not even with that alt hook. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:31, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I feel we must be speaking different languages. You, above, said "That was not the hook used in Neveah's article, ''you're putting the problematic bit right in the hook''." Focusing on the ''True/Slant'' hook(s), for the moment, there was no BLP problem with the hook(s). One was only even claimed (without support at the AfD, and without consensus support at the DyK discussion) ''as to the underlying article''. But that's certainly not the standard applied at DyK, as is evident in not only your DYK where the underlying article speaks of alleged vaginal penetration of a 23-month-old, but in any number of others which (as yours) speak of things perhaps slightly more unspeakable than a spelling error. Nor have you stated what the standard is, or where it is written.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:42, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Move along. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:52, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*I'm not sure what that means. I had thought we had a misunderstanding, and sought to clarify. You seem to be indicating that you are not interested in responding to my request for clarification. I had thought that under wp:admin, it was the least I could expect, especially as you seemed to confuse whether the True/Slant hook(s) had a putative BLP violation. I gather you are not inclined to do so.<br />
<br />
Just so I'm clear, my concerns at this point are as follows. <br />
#I don't think there is a legitimate BLP concern, for the reasons stated by me and others, both in the two DYK threads and at the AfD. <br />
#I don't feel there is any "higher level DYK" concern in these two hooks, as evidenced by a) the level of DYK concern about underlying articles evidenced elsewhere, b) the level of DYK concern about hooks that were far more negative about living persons, c) the fact that nobody has indicated why a ''spelling error'' in an underlying article violates such higher standard, and d) the fact that nobody has articulated precisely what that higher standard is, and where it is reflected. <br />
#I'm concerned that Gato is applying a higher standard to my DYKs than is being applied to others. <br />
#I'm concerned that you are doing the same. <br />
#I'm concerned that after my first DYK was put in queue by the editor who pulled it out, you reverted him, and now after an approving editor is reverted ''on the basis that conversation is ongoing'', you disapprove the hook ''even though conversation is ongoing''. <br />
#You appear disinclined to respond to my efforts to learn where that standard is stated, what the standard is, and what I am missing in the comparison between the True/Slant hook and your hook -- which had a much more BLP-sensitive accusation in it.<br />
<br />
Obviously, these issues are more than DYK or BLP by themselves can handle, and I think it best not to separate them. I would like to proceed in a manner that is agreeable with you, if possible. To keep the discussion centralized, do you think that AN/I would be the best place to go? Or RFC? Not necessarily as the final level, but as the next level?--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:58, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I've explained myself, you're not listening we're going in circles. Move along. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:00, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*I'll move along, as you suggest. But just to be clear -- I've articulated above just where you have failed to explain yourself. IMHO, of course. I won't repeat the items, as they are delineated clearly enough above, and I don't wish to trouble you. I gather you have no view as to the best reviewing forum.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 02:11, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== User groups ==<br />
<br />
Hi. Could you recover Brandmeister's user rights for this alternate account of mine? CU may endorse IP match. [[User:Twilight Chill|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#2F4D92">'''Twilight'''</span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#6082B6">'''chill'''</span>]] [[User talk:Twilight Chill|''t'']] 19:17, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Done. CU confirmed.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:27, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::See [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard&oldid=369565717#Unique_CU_and_Rename_request this for the record] <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:36, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Prep Extra ==<br />
<br />
Sorry if I cut you off in editing that template. I forgot to finish it and came back to fill in the remaining spots not really knowing that you were already on it :)--[[user:White Shadows|<font style="color:#191970">'''White Shadows'''</font>]] <sup>[[user talk:White Shadows|<font style="color:#DC143C">'''There goes another day'''</font>]]</sup> 22:54, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's okay. No problem. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:55, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks ;)--[[user:White Shadows|<font style="color:#191970">'''White Shadows'''</font>]] <sup>[[user talk:White Shadows|<font style="color:#DC143C">'''There goes another day'''</font>]]</sup> 22:57, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== [[Daniel Lambert]] for [[WP:DYK|Did you know?]] ==<br />
<br />
You seem currently busy editing. I updated the phrasing of the article about [[Daniel Lambert]] to "[[corrections officer|prison warder]] ('[[gaol]] keeper')", to avoid ambiguity.<br />
<br />
This change should be done on the QUEUE for DYK, imho, but I don't know how. <br />
<br />
(I thought Lambert was a [[association football]] ([[soccer]]) [[Goalkeeper (association football)|goal-keeper]], which is exactly what Wikipedia suggests if you search for [[gaol keeper]]!) <br />
<br />
Thanks, [[User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz|Kiefer.Wolfowitz]] ([[User talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz|talk]]) 23:24, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:And I've undone it; please don't make daft edits like this. A gaol keeper has nothing in common with either a prison warder or a "corrections officer" (whatever that is) other than both working in custodies of some kind.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 23:28, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It seems clear this guy ran a prison. Use whatever term for that you guys like. FYI, "corrections officer" is a modern day US term for someone that keeps an eye on prison/jail inmates, which Lambert does seem to have done. I've fixed the queue hook so that gaol no longer goes to a redirect but directly to [[prison]].<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:44, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::A gaol keeper ''owned'' a gaol (not a prison, which in this period is a hard-labour institution rather than a town lock-up) and took a per-prisoner fee from the local town or sheriff. All an eighteenth-century gaol keeper has is common with a modern-day prison warder is that they both worked in a place where people are locked up.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 23:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Then I'd say gaol needs its own article or a section in [[prison]] <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:57, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::It's a problematic one; "gaol" today ''is'' the British-English word for "prison" (the labour-camps no longer exist), and that's the sense in which most people will be searching for it. We do have an (very unsatisfactorily-titled) article on the old-style gaols and bridewells at [[Village lock-up]], but that needs a huge cleanup; it can't be moved to "Lock-up" because "lock-up" itself ''also'' has a new meaning in the present-day English system (the cells in police stations where recently-arrested people are kept). <br />
<br />
:::::The problem is that the only people regularly working on 18th-19th century England are myself and Slim, and we both have a limited amount of time on our hands; plus, policing and prisons are one field where Wikipedia's coverage is massively skewed towards the US (that [[prison warden]] article doesn't even ''mention'' the rest of the world), so the "obvious" links often point to wildly misleading things on US posts or buildings with the same name but completely different functions.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 00:10, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Hmm, that is problematic.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:11, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::What's really ironic is that the US split from Britain before the 1839 restructuring of the British penal system, and thus preserved the gaol/prison distinction; [[Prison]] includes a long section on [[Prison#Jails in the United States|Jails in the United States]] which explains the difference perfectly, but obviously can't be used here because it's not in the US...&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 00:24, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== DYK : [[Recaredo Santos Tornero]] ==<br />
<br />
Hi. I recall having a DYK in the past but I don't remember the process. My DYK for [[Recaredo Santos Tornero]] has already been verified. How much does it takes to be taken to the queue? Thanks in advance! :-) [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] <sup>[[User talk:Diego Grez|let's talk]]</sup> 15:54, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I tend to focus the older noms as most people focus on the newer ones. I do so as those people have been waiting longer to see theirs on the main page. Yours was only posted and verified yesterday and there's still stuff waiting from late June. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 16:03, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Ah, OK then. :) --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] <sup>[[User talk:Diego Grez|let's talk]]</sup> 16:13, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK request ==<br />
<br />
The hook in the prep area for [[Copano, Texas]] also links [[Copano Bay]]. I recently rewrote the Copano Bay article, which now qualifies for DYK because it was over a 5x expansion discounting the copyright violation and unreferenced nonsense previously on the page. Could it be possible to bold the link to Copano Bay on the hook to create a double nomination hook?--[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] ([[User talk:William S. Saturn|talk]]) 08:05, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Based on prose size that's not even a 3x expansion (2078 to 5466). And I'm not seeing the copyright thing you mention, but I'm not totally awake yet ;-) Maybe ask Gatoclass or Materialscientist about this. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 10:04, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It was a complete rewrite, so it basically went from 0 to 5466.--[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] ([[User talk:William S. Saturn|talk]]) 16:46, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Now I see it. Done. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 20:16, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Thank you very much.--[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] ([[User talk:William S. Saturn|talk]]) 20:24, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== ''The Wikipedia Signpost'': 5 July 2010 ==<br />
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<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"><br />
{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/{{#switch: 1<br />
| 1 = 2010-07-05<br />
| 2 = Volume 6, Issue 27<br />
| 3 = 2010-06-28<br />
| 4 = 2010-07-12<br />
}}}}<br />
</div><br />
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">'''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single|Single-page]] &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] &middot; [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) 16:19, 6 July 2010 (UTC)</div><br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0056 --><br />
<br />
== Re: Happy Me Day ==<br />
<br />
Many thanks for this, Rlevse. I've been having a stressful time lately for reasons unconnected with Wikipedia, and your award really made me smile. I am awed to have been chosen. Regards, [[User:Espresso Addict|Espresso Addict]] <small>([[User talk:Espresso Addict|talk]])</small> 16:58, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks and you're welcome. Glad it helped in other ways too. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 17:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Email 7-8-10 ==<br />
<br />
Hello,<br />
<br />
I just corresponded with you via email. I would like to go ahead with your suggestion. Please email me if you have any questions.<br />
<br />
Thank you <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Piccol13|Piccol13]] ([[User talk:Piccol13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piccol13|contribs]]) 01:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
:For the record that was a random rename request. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:03, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
Yes, thank you <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:As8q34wipo|As8q34wipo]] ([[User talk:As8q34wipo|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/As8q34wipo|contribs]]) 01:04, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
:Done.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
not to be a pest but i still see there are a couple lines that read "undid revision by piccol 13" is this changeable? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Piccol13|Piccol13]] ([[User talk:Piccol13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piccol13|contribs]]) 01:06, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
::Nope.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
ok, thank you <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Piccol13|Piccol13]] ([[User talk:Piccol13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piccol13|contribs]]) 01:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
<br />
== User stats, editors and outing prevention ==<br />
<br />
Hello<br />
<br />
I have a few questions. Are there stat code I could put on my talk page that would be similar to yours? I also like your user page, and I suspect that it was not entirely written in Wikipedia's online edit page as it is so complex. Did you use an external editor? I've always had trouble finding a resource to learn Wikicode. Is there any external WYSIWYG editor for editing wiki with a GUI interface? I've read the Wiki page about external editors and it doesn't seem like there are any good alternatives to the online editor or Microsoft Word. My last question about outing. I've changed my user name a while ago after I was outed. I since changed my user name, but I've noticed that some of my edits in the talk/discussion pages still have my RL name. So I had broken rule 1, 5, and 7. Should I just make a new account? Can I transfer edits and still be a verified user or whatnot?<br />
<br />
Thanks [[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 01:57, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:For the stats, ask [[User:Rjanag]]. For the wikicode, ask [[User:Jack Merridew]]. I did not write my own user page code. Renaming only changes contribs and user pages. It won't change edit summaries, your name in talk page text, etc. You could make a new account as long as you cease using all prior accounts, including Hmm... . I can rename you but that will move Hmm... edits to the new name. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I already renamed, but my talk pages still use the old RL name. I guess I can just start a new account as I have <200 edits. I would just lose all my history of edits then. :( [[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 16:33, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I will be setting up a new account. Is there anything I should do at this point with this account? [[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 02:58, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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{{tb|StephenBuxton}}<br />
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== Re: DYK nomination of Roman Imperial Church ==<br />
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I responded on the nomination page. Thanks. --[[User:Mcorazao|Mcorazao]] ([[User talk:Mcorazao|talk]]) 03:30, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==DYK for [[Isabella Brant (drawing)]]==<br />
<br />
Thanks for the DYK alert on my talk page, much appreciated. I had a look at the stats hoping that it would have shot up on 9th July. However there are no stats after 7 July. I doubt it is the actual application itself as the data for all other wiki pages seem to be affected. It is a shame as I wanted to know what the traffic was like. Is the raw data retrievable or can it be reinstated? cheers! [[User:Noelypole|Noelypole]] ([[User talk:Noelypole|talk]]) 08:19, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Sometimes it takes a day or two for the stats to show up so keep checking. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 11:36, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Urgent DYK nomination ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rlevse, I draw your attention to [[Template talk:Did you know#11 July, FIFA World Cup 2010 Final|this 11 July 2010 nomination]], which I have hosted under the special occasion holding area. I believe both articles are appropriate for nomination, and I hope to have the hook published on the Main Page during 11 July, which also is the FIFA World Cup 2010 Final day. In fact, it would be excellent to place the hook in the right queue so that it comes out during the time period of the Final match which begins at UTC 20:30. I sincerely hope you find this request appropriate and relevant. Thanks! [[User:AngChenrui|AngChenrui]] ([[User talk:AngChenrui|talk]]) 13:57, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I'll take care of it. Keep an eye on the noms page in case there are issues. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 14:00, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Okay, the problem now is: we can slot the DYK into either of the two queues, but both have its pros and cons. Putting it in Queue 3 would mean the DYK receiving widespread viewing ''before'' the game starts. If its in Queue 4, the DYK will be published half an hour before the game starts, and carry on being on the Main Page during the game itself and finally being removed three and a half hours after the game has ended (the game would last around 2 hours). I've also pasted this onto the DYK template discussion page; don't like split discussions. Thanks :D [[User:AngChenrui|AngChenrui]] ([[User talk:AngChenrui|talk]]) 15:09, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Given how many will watch the game, let's make it 3. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:12, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Okay I'll agree. [[User:AngChenrui|AngChenrui]] ([[User talk:AngChenrui|talk]]) 15:16, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi again, just asking if the nomination will be moved to Queue 3 in time. Queue 3 is already occupied with a set of nominations different from the one we are proposing. Will you push the entire queue back one step back? Or shift our nomination(s) directly to the Main Page from the Prep area ? Thanks! [[User:AngChenrui|AngChenrui]] ([[User talk:AngChenrui|talk]]) 02:25, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Moved a couple queues. The notice was at [[WT:DYK]] for awhile and no one commented so I guess no one watching it objected, so I just made the moves. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Paul the Octopus image ==<br />
<br />
Hi, Rlevse. I have made a composite image from the two free images available on Commons. I added it to the article, but of course I am not sure, if other editors will like it. Yet, if it is to stay, maybe it should be changed for DYK too. Here's the image I made [[:File:Paul the Octopus 1.jpg]] Thank you.--[[User:Mbz1|Mbz1]] ([[User talk:Mbz1|talk]]) 15:46, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Ah, forget it. Somebody changed the image back :( although I still believe the one I have done is much more entertaining. Sorry I bothered you.--[[User:Mbz1|Mbz1]] ([[User talk:Mbz1|talk]]) 16:18, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==DYK for Historic Trails Award==<br />
{{tmbox<br />
|tyle = notice<br />
|small = <br />
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]<br />
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#July 10 2010|July 10, 2010]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Historic Trails Award]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201007/Historic_Trails_Award quick check] )</small> and add it to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].<br />
}} [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 18:02, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== link ==<br />
<br />
Hi, could you link me to the relevant policy or guideline thanks<br />
<br />
"If you want a policy change on inactive admins or such, propose a policy change" <br />
<br />
[[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 20:27, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I have been looking around but as yet been unable to find this policy, if you have a link I would appreciate that, thanks. Is it a [[Wikipedia:Policy]] ? [[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 21:20, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*So, its not policy, ok , so have you got some diffs that show it is long term practice that users with no edit history for lengthy periods like three years should be automatically resopped. [[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 21:58, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Choose any of many threads in the history at BN. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 21:59, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::So you say it is a regular occasion that inactive returnee accounts after three years are automatically re-sopped, is it common then that accounts return after three years and ask for administrative powers? [[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 22:08, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::That's correct admins who turned in their bit "not under a cloud" get it back, though the three year part is longer than we usually see. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:10, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AWill_Beback&action=historysubmit&diff=372496378&oldid=372488811 ''Progress'']? ==<br />
<br />
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I find it hard to wrap my brain around how anyone would characterize [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Will_Beback#Blanking this],[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Transcendental_Meditation#.22add_balancing_point_per_NPOV.22 this], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Littleolive_oil#Peremptory_removal_of_sourced_material this] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ATranscendental_Meditation&action=historysubmit&diff=372762923&oldid=372735825 this] as evidencing progress. More like the SOS, seriously crossing the lines drawn by the TM ArbCom decision. I rather expect that ArbCom will be entertaining yet another protracted and unpleasant proceeding on this walled garden within an obscenely short time. See you then. Cheers! [[User:Fladrif|Fladrif]] ([[User talk:Fladrif|talk]]) 20:53, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:No problem. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 21:19, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Optimists say the glass is half full; pessimists say the glass is half empty. Maybe the glass is just too big. [[User:Fladrif|Fladrif]] ([[User talk:Fladrif|talk]]) 21:43, 10 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rlevse&diff=372838345User talk:Rlevse2010-07-11T02:58:03Z<p>Hmm...: /* User stats, editors and outing prevention */</p>
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<p style="text-align: center;"><br />
[[File:Dog The Teddy Bear.jpg|350px]]<br />
“Dog” The Teddy Bear</p><br />
</div><br />
<br />
== Re: Hmm ==<br />
<br />
I stand by my comments, as I believe that they are an accurate representation of the facts. In the future I will be restricting my edits to non-controversial and non-DYK issues, as for this and a number of other reasons, I have lost faith in the DYK process. Kind regards, [[User:Quasihuman|Quasihuman]] ([[User talk:Quasihuman|talk]]) 22:22, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Disagreements happen all the time on wiki. It's inherent in the process and I've had my own DYK run ins, but I still enjoy it. Here, you're basically saying "if DYK/wiki doesn't agree with my views, they're hosed and I'm not participating". That's your choice but you're setting yourself up for failure within the wiki model. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:24, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Your definition of failure may be different to mine; mostly, I'm happy with researching and editing articles, I have no real desire to "succeed" in any way other than contributing to an article in a way that makes me happy. My attempt at reviewing DYK nominations was an attempt to learn more about what makes an article good, and to develop skill at critique which could be applied to my own work both on and off wiki. Thanks, [[User:Quasihuman|Quasihuman]] ([[User talk:Quasihuman|talk]]) 22:36, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Thanks ==<br />
<br />
I just wanted to say thanks for all the good work you are doing on DYK. I can see it's very hard and time consuming, and want you to know it's appreciated. [[User:Crum375|Crum375]] ([[User talk:Crum375|talk]]) 22:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Why thank you, that's very kind and much appreciated. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:51, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Seconded, particularly for sorting out the leftovers at the bottom of the pile that no-one else seems to want to touch! [[User:Bencherlite|Bencherlite]][[User talk:Bencherlite|<i><sup>Talk</sup></i>]] 18:44, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Why thanks again, and yes, we can use more help in the leftovers. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:28, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK miss ==<br />
<br />
I just saw that I overlooked my DYK notification and that you [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Did_you_know&diff=369818012&oldid=369817942 deleted] the nom. The hook was actually properly cited by the closest subsequent reference, which cited several consecutive sentences. I didn't really develop the article, but the hook was O.K.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|C]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|BIO]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:FOUR]]) </small> 06:53, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:But there is still the busted ref, number 1, that is used twice. It renders a "server not found" error and I don't think it should be in DYK in that state. If someone can fix that I will put it into a queue. NRHP probably rearranged their web site or there's a typo in the URL.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 10:13, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I gave it a look-see. The record isn't digitized yet in the NRHP/NPS system and the old NRIS system seems to be down either for the moment or good, not sure which. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 10:35, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:::I tried again and FOUND the [http://gis.hpa.state.il.us/hargis/Reports/Reports.aspx?RefNumVariable=223381&FormType=Short link], from the Illinois Historic Preservation Agency. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 10:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::::I have added the newly found link to the [[Illinois Institute of Technology Academic Campus]] page. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 10:51, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::::::Hmm, that's giving me an "HTTP status 404 error". Would you mind making it a ref but leave out the URL? <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 11:55, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Sure, gimme one second. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 11:57, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::::::::[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Illinois_Institute_of_Technology_Academic_Campus&diff=369899165&oldid=369892198 Done]. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 11:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:Sorry for the misunderstandig, but it's ref one Tony and I are talking about, not ref 3. I've reset the version. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 14:27, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I've marked that as a dead link and put the hook in a prep queue.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 18:39, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Oooops! I just picked the ref that was listed as #1 on the page. My mistake, but at least you know where to find a link when you need one. :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 00:18, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
==Revision deletion==<br />
For this [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Matthew_McConaughey&action=historysubmit&diff=369961135&oldid=369961009 DIFF]----[[User:Morenooso|moreno oso]] ([[User talk:Morenooso#top|talk]]) 19:37, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:either the diff is wrong or it was already done. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==request by user:congressionalstaff==<br />
Good day Rlevse may I respectfully request your kind assistance as an active editor of the Wikipedia article [[List of United States Naval Academy alumni (legislators)]] and as the one who worked to have it promoted to featured list on Wikipedia. I would like to include the picture of a noted alumni who had set a record not only during his stay at the US Naval Academy in Annapolis but also made historical impact as a politician and public servant in the Philippines, Congressman [[Roilo Golez]]. While at the academy he excelled in academics as a consistent Superintendent's List midshipman, in sports becoming a four-year undefeated academy boxing champion in his weight division setting a record in then more than 100 years of academy boxing, and in leadership having held the position of Company Commander which is a rare distinction for foreign midshipmen. In the Philippines, he had a long and productive career as a public servant having been elected in landslide victories in 1992, 1995, 1998, 2004, 2007, and 2010, serving as Representative of the City of Paranaque in the 9th, 10th, 11th, 13th and 14th Congress of the Philippines and will be serving in the incoming 15th Congress of the Philippines on his unprecedented sixth term in office as a congressman. He is also the President of the U.S. Naval Academy Alumni Association, Philippine Chapter and is a Life Member of the U.S. Naval Academy Alumni Association. He had also served as the President of the Boy Scouts of the Philippines, Governor of the Philippine National Red Cross, and President of the Amateur Boxing Association of the Philippines. I had tried to include his picture but was instructed by MBK004 to start a discussion on it first. Thank you very much in advance for your time and invaluable inputs. {{unsigned|Congressionalstaff}}<br />
:He certainly deserves an article but I'm not sure about a photo on the list. He's mentioned in the narrative above the list but most others aren't.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:20, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Sir Rlevse thank you very much for your prompt response. May I ask what would be the standard or basis required or observed by the Wikipedia community in placing the photo of a US Naval Academy alumni beside the list, in addition, for an alumni not so included to have his picture also placed beside the list. It would help a lot of people researching on the subject matter to have the picture of the mentioned alumnus right there on the article itself, it is a short list after all and the picture will just be small for which the space beside the table is ample enough to accomodate. At the very least, it could accomodate one more, please. [[User:Congressionalstaff|Congressionalstaff]] ([[User talk:Congressionalstaff|talk]]) 03:01, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::No need for calling me sir ;-) One thing is that there are already pics there and people really don't like for the row of pics to run below the list of names so. One would have to be swapped out. I suggest you start a chat on the list's talk page, post on MBK's page to see what he says, and see what other people say. Leave the talk open at least a week and we'll see how it's going.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 03:43, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Ok thanks I really appreciate your comments and will do as advised, btw I just checked the article's page again [[List of United States Naval Academy alumni (legislators)]] and the list of names now run quite below the row of pics on the side admitting perhaps the placement of two more pics without running below the list of names. I hope this request for one more pic may be given due course by the Wikipedia admins, sysop such as you and the rest of the Wikipedia community. Thanks so much, I'm learning to appreciate the quality and amount of collaborative work that goes into every article on Wikipedia. No wonder it is of the status it is today as a widely used and most visited reference website. [[User:Congressionalstaff|Congressionalstaff]] ([[User talk:Congressionalstaff|talk]]) 05:16, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Another Keegscee Sock==<br />
The socks keep breaking through, [[User:Xobni lluf]] is the newest. Kinda sad the user just doesn't seem to be smart enough to get they aren't welcome. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 04:05, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:Fastily blocked them, but the rangeblocks don't seem to be holding them back. They must be using other proxies. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 04:31, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::New one: [[User:Starbrighttonight]]. He claims he doesn't cause any drama, I actually cause the drama reporting him. Stupid sock is stupid. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 05:04, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:::Yes, multiple providers. Did what I could on these too.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 10:18, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Excellent, thank you :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 19:35, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
== Today's Wikipedian ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rlevse, that is extremely kind of you, and very much appreciated. Beyond that, I'd like to thank you for undertaking the TW effort in general, which I am sure helps spread good will around the project. I just hope that between the tireless work you do at DYK, the TW, and other wiki-things, you get a chance to take time off. Thanks again, [[User:Crum375|Crum375]] ([[User talk:Crum375|talk]]) 00:24, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks and ;-) <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:52, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ursula Buckel ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for approving her (and others) so promptly! I'm used to waiting for days and weeks until someone looks ... and didn't want to nominate too late. I was planning to expand both the singer and the cantata, promised. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 20:13, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:No problem.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 20:38, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Archiving my talk page ==<br />
<br />
Just wait a few days — I archive at the end of every third month, so it will be archived by the end of the week. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 15:39, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I've proposed a new hook for St. Joseph's Church. Thanks for the note; I proposed the original hook because I couldn't think of anything better, but I think my new proposal is better. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 15:52, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for persisting and putting up with me on this; the final result is much better because of your help. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 05:00, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::No problem. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 09:51, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Clint Eastwood==<br />
The article was split from the main article with the intention of condensing it like I did with the 1960s and 1970s. Unfortunately somebody nominated it for DYK....[[User:Dr. Blofeld| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">'''''Dr. Blofeld'''''</font>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Dr. Blofeld| <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat</font></font color> ]]</sup> 15:41, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well Gato disapproved it. So now the main needs compressed to a summary or the fork needs deleted. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:49, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RE: Happy Merovingian's Day! ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I really appreciate the recognition, thanks very much.<br><br />
Best regards and happy editing! --[[User:Merovingian|Merovingian]] ([[User talk:Merovingian|T]], [[Special:Contributions/Merovingian|C]], [[Special:Log/Merovingian|L]]) 01:39, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Update balance== <br />
<br />
I notice you seem to have prepared a few updates recently with more than four bio hooks. An update should never have more than four bios, unless it's absolutely unavoidable (ie, nothing but bio hooks left). Given that there are plenty of verified hooks at Suggestions ATM, it's not as if there aren't plenty of other hooks to choose from. <br />
<br />
And BTW, don't forget to choose a funny/quirky hook for the last slot - I've just noticed a few so-so ones lately, although I don't know whose updates they were. [[User:Gatoclass|Gatoclass]] ([[User talk:Gatoclass|talk]]) 05:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Recognitions ==<br />
<br />
I put those guys up there because Ed did go ahead and barnstar them. If you want to change to your sig that's cool.--[[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris (クリス • フィッチュ)]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 19:13, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Ed put them there with his sig, then you changed them to your sig. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 21:43, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== My Appreciation ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rlevse,<br />
<br />
Thank you so much for the barnstar! I found it very encouraging. Your "Wikipedian of the day" initiative is a great way of telling other editors that their years of contributions are appreciated. Kudos for promoting cooperation throughout the project.<br />
<br />
Happy editing,<br />
<br />
[[User:Neelix|Neelix]] ([[User talk:Neelix|talk]]) 02:34, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 09:51, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== ''The Wikipedia Signpost'': 28 June 2010 ==<br />
<br />
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"><br />
{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/{{#switch: 1<br />
| 1 = 2010-06-28<br />
| 2 = Volume 6, Issue 26<br />
| 3 = 2010-06-21<br />
| 4 = 2010-07-05<br />
}}}}<br />
</div><br />
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">'''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single|Single-page]] &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] &middot; [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) 21:59, 29 June 2010 (UTC)</div><br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0054 --><br />
<br />
== [[Wikipedia:Featured article review/Bhumibol Adulyadej/archive1]] ==<br />
<br />
I have nominated [[Bhumibol Adulyadej]] for a featured article review. [[User:Savidan|Savidan]] 21:20, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Long overdue. I gave up trying to save it long ago.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== WikiCup 2010 June newsletter ==<br />
<br />
[[File:Trophy.png|right]]<br />
We're half way through 2010, and the end of the WikiCup is in sight! Round 3 is over, and we're down to our final 16. Our pool winners were {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Ian Rose}} (A), {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Sturmvogel_66}} (B, and the round's overall leader), {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|ThinkBlue}} (C) {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Casliber}} and {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|TonyTheTiger}} (D, joint), but, with the scores reset, everything is to play for in our last pooled round. The pools will be up before midnight tonight, and have been selected randomly by J Milburn. This will be the toughest round yet, and so, as ever, anything you worry may not receive the necessary attention before the end of the round (such as outstanding GA or FA nominations) is welcome at [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews]], and please remember to continue offering reviews yourself where possible. As always, the judges are available to contact via email, IRC or their talk pages, and general discussion about the Cup is welcome on the [[WT:CUP|WikiCup talk page]].<br />
<br />
Though unaffiliated with the WikiCup, July sees the [[Wikipedia:The Great Wikipedia Dramaout/3rd|third Great Wikipedia Dramaout]]- a project with not dissimilar goals to the WikiCup. Everyone is welcome to take part and do their bit to contribute to the encyclopedia itself.<br />
<br />
If you're interested in the scores for the last round of the Cup, please take a look at [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/History/2010/Round 3]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/History/2010/Full/Round 3]]. Our thanks go to {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Stone}} for compiling these. As was predicted, Group C ended up the "Group of Death", with 670 points required for second place, and, therefore, automatic promotion. This round will probably be even tougher- again, the top two from each of the two groups will make it through, while the twelve remaining participants will compete for four wildcard places- good luck everyone! <small>If you wish to start receiving or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send]].</small> [[User:J Milburn|J Milburn]], [[User:Fox|Fox]] and [[User:The ed17|The ed17]]<br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0055 --><br />
<br />
== Me day ==<br />
<br />
Though I know not why (or even how) it came to pass that I was selected as a "Day" recipient, thank you.<br />
--[[User:Piledhigheranddeeper|Piledhigheranddeeper]] ([[User talk:Piledhigheranddeeper|talk]]) 01:12, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RFC closed ==<br />
<br />
Hi, in your ARBCOM hat - I was looking for some feedback on on the way forward as the RFC discussion has closed concerning what we are to do with the low results returned in the checkuser and oversight elections [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Checkuser_and_oversighter_selection#.22Immediate_steps.22_poll_by_FT2 "Immediate steps" poll by FT2] and is in need of assessment and the next step, whatever that is to be, regards.[[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 23:35, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well, there's not much of a consensus there for anything is there. Considering there is a dire need for more CUs and OSs, that is indeed a conundrum. We're discussing it.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:03, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your attention. [[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 01:11, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK prep 2 ==<br />
<br />
Hi, not sure if you've started trying to compile Prep2, but I just uploaded a set there. Sorry, I think I forgot to save the Inuse template since I don't see it in the history. <i>[[User:Grondemar|&ndash;]][[User talk:Grondemar|Grondemar]]</i> 16:21, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:No biggie, I'll put mine in extra. Tks for letting me know. I am pulling a set now. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 16:22, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== True/Slant ==<br />
<br />
Hello. I'm a bit concerned about [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Did_you_know&diff=prev&oldid=371360327#Articles_created.2Fexpanded_on_June_22 the True/Slant matter], and the way it was handled. First, for reasons articulated there by a number of editors, I don't think there was any legitimate BLP issue. It is not enough for one to claim there is such an issue; that must in fact be the case. What was argued -- that the hook had no BLP issue, and most of the article underlying the hook had no BLP issue, but one sentence in the article did have a BLP issue, because that sentence said a person held a sign with a spelling error, is not IMHO a legitimate BLP issue. The BLP argument was used by the same editor in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Arrest_of_Two_New_Jersey_Men_Bound_for_Somalia an AFD discussion]. He called it a "clear BLP violation". Not one editor agreed with him. The article was kept a "Keep". Here, it is even more attenuated -- as the phrase is not even in the hook (though I obviously feel were it in the hook, the answer would be the same). The hook was approved. Gato said no decision can be made, as conversation is ongoing. Then, with most of the editors disagreeing with Gato, you come in to the still-ongoing-discussion and close it as disapproved.<br />
<br />
If Gato was wrong that the editor could not approve the discussion, it should have been approved. If he was right, because the conversation was ongoing, then you also should not be able to close the discussion as a disapprove.<br />
<br />
IMHO. Respectfully. I would ask, for the foregoing reasons, that you restore the discussion.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 00:53, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:BLP standards for DYK, since they appear on the main page, are higher than for article space. I'm not about to put that on the main page with all the ongoing concerns. That is alone is enough to disapprove it, but in addition nor will I keep it there on hold for as long as a BLPN takes.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:59, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::"All the ongoing concerns" have been demonstrated to be just so many words IMHO, and in the opinion of most of the editors in that discussion. The editor who posed the same concerns at AfD was informed by lack of any agreement that his assertions of "clear BLP violation" were just words -- not the case. I see the same here; even worse, as the hook itself lacks any such claimed violation whatsoever. The standards applied at DYK (which you refer to) are reflected at the DYKs that I pointed to. They reflect that the higher standard you refer to allows for hooks describing people as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:DYKSTATS 10 most wanted fugitives] and as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:DYKSTATS be-headers] (with pictures to boot), and these hooks are among those we boast about as having the most hits. This clearly falls well within that standard. I don't think its even close. I'm concerned as well with the double standard -- the approver cannot close the discussion because it is ongoing, but the non-approver can? I'm struggling to appreciate how that can be. Thanks for your thoughts.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:07, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I'm not changing my mind. Recall the Arabian DYK issue. That's two BLP-related DYK noms with significant concerns you've been at the center at in as many weeks.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:13, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*Yes. With the same Gato -- whose edits are discussed there--at the center of it. And the other hook was one that was added to a queue, but then you deleted from a queue--so you were also at the center of it. <br />
<br />
I fail to see how I am being treated consistently, since you promote for DYK an article that says "Montoya '''had previously been investigated in July 2006 for sexual assault that involved vaginal penetration on Nevaeh, then 23 months old'''", and that's just fine. But when I have an article that mentions '''a spelling error''', its not. I'm slightly troubled that there may be a double standard. And that you've again not indicated why you can close a conversation in mid-discussion, but an approver cannot. I would like to appeal this matter -- what would you suggest is the appropriate manner? I would like it to be reviewed by people other than those who have given us and Gato awards -- third parties who are more arms'length -- as I think we can then get the fairest result. Many thanks.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:19, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::That was not the hook used in Neveah's article, you're putting the problematic bit right in the hook. Spelling has nothing to do with it. The Arabian thread is where I learned how much the DYK BLP standard is higher is. I explained why I closed this particular nom. If you want more review, go ahead, but again, I'm not changing my mind. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:26, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*No. Respectfully--you are absolutely wrong. You apparently closed the True/Slant discussion without reading the hooks. --[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:31, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Totally untrue. Let me elaborate on one thing I said above about ongoing BLPN, I'm not putting an article with a BLPN up as DYK hook, not even with that alt hook. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:31, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I feel we must be speaking different languages. You, above, said "That was not the hook used in Neveah's article, ''you're putting the problematic bit right in the hook''." Focusing on the ''True/Slant'' hook(s), for the moment, there was no BLP problem with the hook(s). One was only even claimed (without support at the AfD, and without consensus support at the DyK discussion) ''as to the underlying article''. But that's certainly not the standard applied at DyK, as is evident in not only your DYK where the underlying article speaks of alleged vaginal penetration of a 23-month-old, but in any number of others which (as yours) speak of things perhaps slightly more unspeakable than a spelling error. Nor have you stated what the standard is, or where it is written.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:42, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Move along. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:52, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*I'm not sure what that means. I had thought we had a misunderstanding, and sought to clarify. You seem to be indicating that you are not interested in responding to my request for clarification. I had thought that under wp:admin, it was the least I could expect, especially as you seemed to confuse whether the True/Slant hook(s) had a putative BLP violation. I gather you are not inclined to do so.<br />
<br />
Just so I'm clear, my concerns at this point are as follows. <br />
#I don't think there is a legitimate BLP concern, for the reasons stated by me and others, both in the two DYK threads and at the AfD. <br />
#I don't feel there is any "higher level DYK" concern in these two hooks, as evidenced by a) the level of DYK concern about underlying articles evidenced elsewhere, b) the level of DYK concern about hooks that were far more negative about living persons, c) the fact that nobody has indicated why a ''spelling error'' in an underlying article violates such higher standard, and d) the fact that nobody has articulated precisely what that higher standard is, and where it is reflected. <br />
#I'm concerned that Gato is applying a higher standard to my DYKs than is being applied to others. <br />
#I'm concerned that you are doing the same. <br />
#I'm concerned that after my first DYK was put in queue by the editor who pulled it out, you reverted him, and now after an approving editor is reverted ''on the basis that conversation is ongoing'', you disapprove the hook ''even though conversation is ongoing''. <br />
#You appear disinclined to respond to my efforts to learn where that standard is stated, what the standard is, and what I am missing in the comparison between the True/Slant hook and your hook -- which had a much more BLP-sensitive accusation in it.<br />
<br />
Obviously, these issues are more than DYK or BLP by themselves can handle, and I think it best not to separate them. I would like to proceed in a manner that is agreeable with you, if possible. To keep the discussion centralized, do you think that AN/I would be the best place to go? Or RFC? Not necessarily as the final level, but as the next level?--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:58, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I've explained myself, you're not listening we're going in circles. Move along. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:00, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*I'll move along, as you suggest. But just to be clear -- I've articulated above just where you have failed to explain yourself. IMHO, of course. I won't repeat the items, as they are delineated clearly enough above, and I don't wish to trouble you. I gather you have no view as to the best reviewing forum.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 02:11, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== User groups ==<br />
<br />
Hi. Could you recover Brandmeister's user rights for this alternate account of mine? CU may endorse IP match. [[User:Twilight Chill|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#2F4D92">'''Twilight'''</span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#6082B6">'''chill'''</span>]] [[User talk:Twilight Chill|''t'']] 19:17, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Done. CU confirmed.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:27, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::See [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard&oldid=369565717#Unique_CU_and_Rename_request this for the record] <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:36, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Prep Extra ==<br />
<br />
Sorry if I cut you off in editing that template. I forgot to finish it and came back to fill in the remaining spots not really knowing that you were already on it :)--[[user:White Shadows|<font style="color:#191970">'''White Shadows'''</font>]] <sup>[[user talk:White Shadows|<font style="color:#DC143C">'''There goes another day'''</font>]]</sup> 22:54, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's okay. No problem. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:55, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks ;)--[[user:White Shadows|<font style="color:#191970">'''White Shadows'''</font>]] <sup>[[user talk:White Shadows|<font style="color:#DC143C">'''There goes another day'''</font>]]</sup> 22:57, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[Daniel Lambert]] for [[WP:DYK|Did you know?]] ==<br />
<br />
You seem currently busy editing. I updated the phrasing of the article about [[Daniel Lambert]] to "[[corrections officer|prison warder]] ('[[gaol]] keeper')", to avoid ambiguity.<br />
<br />
This change should be done on the QUEUE for DYK, imho, but I don't know how. <br />
<br />
(I thought Lambert was a [[association football]] ([[soccer]]) [[Goalkeeper (association football)|goal-keeper]], which is exactly what Wikipedia suggests if you search for [[gaol keeper]]!) <br />
<br />
Thanks, [[User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz|Kiefer.Wolfowitz]] ([[User talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz|talk]]) 23:24, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:And I've undone it; please don't make daft edits like this. A gaol keeper has nothing in common with either a prison warder or a "corrections officer" (whatever that is) other than both working in custodies of some kind.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 23:28, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It seems clear this guy ran a prison. Use whatever term for that you guys like. FYI, "corrections officer" is a modern day US term for someone that keeps an eye on prison/jail inmates, which Lambert does seem to have done. I've fixed the queue hook so that gaol no longer goes to a redirect but directly to [[prison]].<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:44, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::A gaol keeper ''owned'' a gaol (not a prison, which in this period is a hard-labour institution rather than a town lock-up) and took a per-prisoner fee from the local town or sheriff. All an eighteenth-century gaol keeper has is common with a modern-day prison warder is that they both worked in a place where people are locked up.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 23:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Then I'd say gaol needs its own article or a section in [[prison]] <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:57, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::It's a problematic one; "gaol" today ''is'' the British-English word for "prison" (the labour-camps no longer exist), and that's the sense in which most people will be searching for it. We do have an (very unsatisfactorily-titled) article on the old-style gaols and bridewells at [[Village lock-up]], but that needs a huge cleanup; it can't be moved to "Lock-up" because "lock-up" itself ''also'' has a new meaning in the present-day English system (the cells in police stations where recently-arrested people are kept). <br />
<br />
:::::The problem is that the only people regularly working on 18th-19th century England are myself and Slim, and we both have a limited amount of time on our hands; plus, policing and prisons are one field where Wikipedia's coverage is massively skewed towards the US (that [[prison warden]] article doesn't even ''mention'' the rest of the world), so the "obvious" links often point to wildly misleading things on US posts or buildings with the same name but completely different functions.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 00:10, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Hmm, that is problematic.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:11, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::What's really ironic is that the US split from Britain before the 1839 restructuring of the British penal system, and thus preserved the gaol/prison distinction; [[Prison]] includes a long section on [[Prison#Jails in the United States|Jails in the United States]] which explains the difference perfectly, but obviously can't be used here because it's not in the US...&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 00:24, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK : [[Recaredo Santos Tornero]] ==<br />
<br />
Hi. I recall having a DYK in the past but I don't remember the process. My DYK for [[Recaredo Santos Tornero]] has already been verified. How much does it takes to be taken to the queue? Thanks in advance! :-) [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] <sup>[[User talk:Diego Grez|let's talk]]</sup> 15:54, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I tend to focus the older noms as most people focus on the newer ones. I do so as those people have been waiting longer to see theirs on the main page. Yours was only posted and verified yesterday and there's still stuff waiting from late June. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 16:03, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Ah, OK then. :) --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] <sup>[[User talk:Diego Grez|let's talk]]</sup> 16:13, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK request ==<br />
<br />
The hook in the prep area for [[Copano, Texas]] also links [[Copano Bay]]. I recently rewrote the Copano Bay article, which now qualifies for DYK because it was over a 5x expansion discounting the copyright violation and unreferenced nonsense previously on the page. Could it be possible to bold the link to Copano Bay on the hook to create a double nomination hook?--[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] ([[User talk:William S. Saturn|talk]]) 08:05, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Based on prose size that's not even a 3x expansion (2078 to 5466). And I'm not seeing the copyright thing you mention, but I'm not totally awake yet ;-) Maybe ask Gatoclass or Materialscientist about this. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 10:04, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It was a complete rewrite, so it basically went from 0 to 5466.--[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] ([[User talk:William S. Saturn|talk]]) 16:46, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Now I see it. Done. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 20:16, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Thank you very much.--[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] ([[User talk:William S. Saturn|talk]]) 20:24, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== ''The Wikipedia Signpost'': 5 July 2010 ==<br />
<br />
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"><br />
{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/{{#switch: 1<br />
| 1 = 2010-07-05<br />
| 2 = Volume 6, Issue 27<br />
| 3 = 2010-06-28<br />
| 4 = 2010-07-12<br />
}}}}<br />
</div><br />
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">'''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single|Single-page]] &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] &middot; [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) 16:19, 6 July 2010 (UTC)</div><br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0056 --><br />
<br />
== Re: Happy Me Day ==<br />
<br />
Many thanks for this, Rlevse. I've been having a stressful time lately for reasons unconnected with Wikipedia, and your award really made me smile. I am awed to have been chosen. Regards, [[User:Espresso Addict|Espresso Addict]] <small>([[User talk:Espresso Addict|talk]])</small> 16:58, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks and you're welcome. Glad it helped in other ways too. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 17:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Email 7-8-10 ==<br />
<br />
Hello,<br />
<br />
I just corresponded with you via email. I would like to go ahead with your suggestion. Please email me if you have any questions.<br />
<br />
Thank you <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Piccol13|Piccol13]] ([[User talk:Piccol13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piccol13|contribs]]) 01:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
:For the record that was a random rename request. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:03, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
Yes, thank you <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:As8q34wipo|As8q34wipo]] ([[User talk:As8q34wipo|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/As8q34wipo|contribs]]) 01:04, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
:Done.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
not to be a pest but i still see there are a couple lines that read "undid revision by piccol 13" is this changeable? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Piccol13|Piccol13]] ([[User talk:Piccol13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piccol13|contribs]]) 01:06, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
::Nope.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
ok, thank you <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Piccol13|Piccol13]] ([[User talk:Piccol13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piccol13|contribs]]) 01:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
<br />
== User stats, editors and outing prevention ==<br />
<br />
Hello<br />
<br />
I have a few questions. Are there stat code I could put on my talk page that would be similar to yours? I also like your user page, and I suspect that it was not entirely written in Wikipedia's online edit page as it is so complex. Did you use an external editor? I've always had trouble finding a resource to learn Wikicode. Is there any external WYSIWYG editor for editing wiki with a GUI interface? I've read the Wiki page about external editors and it doesn't seem like there are any good alternatives to the online editor or Microsoft Word. My last question about outing. I've changed my user name a while ago after I was outed. I since changed my user name, but I've noticed that some of my edits in the talk/discussion pages still have my RL name. So I had broken rule 1, 5, and 7. Should I just make a new account? Can I transfer edits and still be a verified user or whatnot?<br />
<br />
Thanks [[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 01:57, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:For the stats, ask [[User:Rjanag]]. For the wikicode, ask [[User:Jack Merridew]]. I did not write my own user page code. Renaming only changes contribs and user pages. It won't change edit summaries, your name in talk page text, etc. You could make a new account as long as you cease using all prior accounts, including Hmm... . I can rename you but that will move Hmm... edits to the new name. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I already renamed, but my talk pages still use the old RL name. I guess I can just start a new account as I have <200 edits. I would just lose all my history of edits then. :( [[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 16:33, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
{{tb|StephenBuxton}}<br />
<br />
:::I will be setting up a new account. Is there anything I should do at this point with this account? [[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 02:58, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Re: DYK nomination of Roman Imperial Church ==<br />
<br />
I responded on the nomination page. Thanks. --[[User:Mcorazao|Mcorazao]] ([[User talk:Mcorazao|talk]]) 03:30, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==DYK for [[Isabella Brant (drawing)]]==<br />
<br />
Thanks for the DYK alert on my talk page, much appreciated. I had a look at the stats hoping that it would have shot up on 9th July. However there are no stats after 7 July. I doubt it is the actual application itself as the data for all other wiki pages seem to be affected. It is a shame as I wanted to know what the traffic was like. Is the raw data retrievable or can it be reinstated? cheers! [[User:Noelypole|Noelypole]] ([[User talk:Noelypole|talk]]) 08:19, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Sometimes it takes a day or two for the stats to show up so keep checking. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 11:36, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Urgent DYK nomination ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rlevse, I draw your attention to [[Template talk:Did you know#11 July, FIFA World Cup 2010 Final|this 11 July 2010 nomination]], which I have hosted under the special occasion holding area. I believe both articles are appropriate for nomination, and I hope to have the hook published on the Main Page during 11 July, which also is the FIFA World Cup 2010 Final day. In fact, it would be excellent to place the hook in the right queue so that it comes out during the time period of the Final match which begins at UTC 20:30. I sincerely hope you find this request appropriate and relevant. Thanks! [[User:AngChenrui|AngChenrui]] ([[User talk:AngChenrui|talk]]) 13:57, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I'll take care of it. Keep an eye on the noms page in case there are issues. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 14:00, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Okay, the problem now is: we can slot the DYK into either of the two queues, but both have its pros and cons. Putting it in Queue 3 would mean the DYK receiving widespread viewing ''before'' the game starts. If its in Queue 4, the DYK will be published half an hour before the game starts, and carry on being on the Main Page during the game itself and finally being removed three and a half hours after the game has ended (the game would last around 2 hours). I've also pasted this onto the DYK template discussion page; don't like split discussions. Thanks :D [[User:AngChenrui|AngChenrui]] ([[User talk:AngChenrui|talk]]) 15:09, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Given how many will watch the game, let's make it 3. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:12, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Okay I'll agree. [[User:AngChenrui|AngChenrui]] ([[User talk:AngChenrui|talk]]) 15:16, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hi again, just asking if the nomination will be moved to Queue 3 in time. Queue 3 is already occupied with a set of nominations different from the one we are proposing. Will you push the entire queue back one step back? Or shift our nomination(s) directly to the Main Page from the Prep area ? Thanks! [[User:AngChenrui|AngChenrui]] ([[User talk:AngChenrui|talk]]) 02:25, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Moved a couple queues. The notice was at [[WT:DYK]] for awhile and no one commented so I guess no one watching it objected, so I just made the moves. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Paul the Octopus image ==<br />
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Hi, Rlevse. I have made a composite image from the two free images available on Commons. I added it to the article, but of course I am not sure, if other editors will like it. Yet, if it is to stay, maybe it should be changed for DYK too. Here's the image I made [[:File:Paul the Octopus 1.jpg]] Thank you.--[[User:Mbz1|Mbz1]] ([[User talk:Mbz1|talk]]) 15:46, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Ah, forget it. Somebody changed the image back :( although I still believe the one I have done is much more entertaining. Sorry I bothered you.--[[User:Mbz1|Mbz1]] ([[User talk:Mbz1|talk]]) 16:18, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==DYK for Historic Trails Award==<br />
{{tmbox<br />
|tyle = notice<br />
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|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#July 10 2010|July 10, 2010]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Historic Trails Award]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201007/Historic_Trails_Award quick check] )</small> and add it to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].<br />
}} [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 18:02, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== link ==<br />
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Hi, could you link me to the relevant policy or guideline thanks<br />
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"If you want a policy change on inactive admins or such, propose a policy change" <br />
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[[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 20:27, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I have been looking around but as yet been unable to find this policy, if you have a link I would appreciate that, thanks. Is it a [[Wikipedia:Policy]] ? [[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 21:20, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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*So, its not policy, ok , so have you got some diffs that show it is long term practice that users with no edit history for lengthy periods like three years should be automatically resopped. [[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 21:58, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Choose any of many threads in the history at BN. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 21:59, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::So you say it is a regular occasion that inactive returnee accounts after three years are automatically re-sopped, is it common then that accounts return after three years and ask for administrative powers? [[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 22:08, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::That's correct admins who turned in their bit "not under a cloud" get it back, though the three year part is longer than we usually see. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:10, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AWill_Beback&action=historysubmit&diff=372496378&oldid=372488811 ''Progress'']? ==<br />
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I find it hard to wrap my brain around how anyone would characterize [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Will_Beback#Blanking this],[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Transcendental_Meditation#.22add_balancing_point_per_NPOV.22 this], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Littleolive_oil#Peremptory_removal_of_sourced_material this] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ATranscendental_Meditation&action=historysubmit&diff=372762923&oldid=372735825 this] as evidencing progress. More like the SOS, seriously crossing the lines drawn by the TM ArbCom decision. I rather expect that ArbCom will be entertaining yet another protracted and unpleasant proceeding on this walled garden within an obscenely short time. See you then. Cheers! [[User:Fladrif|Fladrif]] ([[User talk:Fladrif|talk]]) 20:53, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:No problem. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 21:19, 10 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Optimists say the glass is half full; pessimists say the glass is half empty. Maybe the glass is just too big. [[User:Fladrif|Fladrif]] ([[User talk:Fladrif|talk]]) 21:43, 10 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hmm...&diff=372650113User talk:Hmm...2010-07-09T22:00:32Z<p>Hmm...: </p>
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==Duplicate images uploaded==<br />
Thanks for uploading [[:Image:Dmlogo.jpg]]. A machine-controlled [[WP:BOT|robot account]] noticed that you also uploaded the same image under the name [[:Image:DMlogo.JPG]]. The copy called Image:DMlogo.JPG has been marked for [[WP:CSD|speedy deletion]] since it is redundant. If this sounds okay to you, there is no need for you to take any action. <br />
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This is an automated message- you have not upset or annoyed anyone, and you do not need to respond. In the future, you may save yourself some confusion if you supply a meaningful file name and refer to 'my contributions' to remind yourself exactly which name you chose (file names are [[case sensitive]], including the extension) so that you won't lose track of your uploads. For tips on good file naming, see [[Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#Image_titles_and_file_names|Wikipedia's image use policy]]. If you have any questions about this notice, or feel that the deletion is inappropriate, please contact [[User:Staecker]], who operates the robot account. [[User:Staeckerbot|Staeckerbot]] ([[User talk:Staeckerbot|talk]]) 07:59, 30 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
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==Image copyright problem with Image:Dmlogo.jpg==<br />
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[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|32px|left|Image Copyright problem]]<br />
Thank you for uploading [[:Image:Dmlogo.jpg]]. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes [[Wikipedia:Copyrights|copyright]] very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the '''license''' and the '''source''' of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a '''[[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags|copyright tag]]''' to the [[Help:Image page|image description page]].<br />
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If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|media copyright questions page]]. Thanks again for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. [[User:STBotI|STBotI]] ([[User talk:STBotI|talk]]) 08:22, 30 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
==Problems with upload of Image:Queen Lane Campus.JPG==<br />
Thanks for uploading '''[[:Image:Queen Lane Campus.JPG]]'''. You don't seem to have said where the image came from, who created it, or what the copyright status is. We require this information to verify that the image is legally usable on Wikipedia, and because most image licenses require giving credit to the image's creator.<br />
<br />
To add this information, click on [[:Image:Queen Lane Campus.JPG|this link]], then click "Edit this page" and add the information to the image's description. If you need help, post your question on [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions]].<br />
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For more information on using images, see the following pages:<br />
* [[Wikipedia:Image use policy]]<br />
* [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags]]<br />
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Thank you for your cooperation. --[[User:ImageTaggingBot|ImageTaggingBot]] ([[User talk:ImageTaggingBot|talk]]) 05:06, 28 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I love it when you sweet talk me. [[User:Theleike|Theleike]] ([[User talk:Theleike#top|talk]]) 20:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Image tagging for Image:First Female Medical College of Pennsylvania Building.JPG==<br />
Thanks for uploading '''[[:Image:First Female Medical College of Pennsylvania Building.JPG]]'''. You don't seem to have said where the image came from or who created it. We require this information to verify that the image is legally usable on Wikipedia, and because most image licenses require giving credit to the image's creator.<br />
<br />
To add this information, click on [[:Image:First Female Medical College of Pennsylvania Building.JPG|this link]], then click "Edit this page" and add the information to the image's description. If you need help, post your question on [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions]].<br />
<br />
For more information on using images, see the following pages:<br />
* [[Wikipedia:Image use policy]]<br />
* [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags]]<br />
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Thank you for your cooperation. --[[User:ImageTaggingBot|ImageTaggingBot]] ([[User talk:ImageTaggingBot|talk]]) 08:05, 28 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Archiving revert ==<br />
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Is there a particular topic or thread that you wish restored at [[Talk:Falun Gong]]? Even archived, the talk page is still over 100k in size. We should endeavour to keep the page trimmed and current for the sake of other editors. --[[User:Vassyana|Vassyana]] ([[User talk:Vassyana|talk]]) 03:08, 17 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I see that bot archiving has been set up, so I've self-reverted to the bot edit. --[[User:Vassyana|Vassyana]] ([[User talk:Vassyana|talk]]) 03:13, 17 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Thank you for the unexpected laughter ==<br />
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Quoting you on the Falun Gong page: "I fear that when the actual article becomes editable again, this title will encourage partisan edits but of course, that is what the ban hammer is for." ...which made me stifle a belly laugh that would have woken the wife. I hope for the best and prepare for the worst. [[User:PerEdman|<span style="color:#ff0000"> / PerEdman</span>]] 21:38, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==File copyright problem with File:SafiloGp.png==<br />
[[File:Copyright-problem.svg|64px|left]]<br />
Thank you for uploading [[:File:SafiloGp.png]]. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes [[Wikipedia:Copyrights|copyright]] very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the '''license''' and the '''source''' of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a '''[[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags|copyright tag]]''' to the [[Help:Image page|image description page]].<br />
<br />
If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=upload&user=Hmm... this link].<br />
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If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|media copyright questions page]]. Thanks again for your cooperation.<!-- Template:Di-no license-notice --> <span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''[[User:Fastily|<big>F</big><small>ASTILY<sub>sock</sub></small>]]'''</span> <sup><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS"><small>[[User talk:Fastily|(T<small>ALK</small>)]]</small></span></sup> 06:55, 14 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== tofu ==<br />
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I'm not an admin, but I suggest you read [[Wikipedia:How to move pages]]. I don't have a problem with moving the page, but how you moved it. [[User:Deadkid dk|_dk]] ([[User talk:Deadkid dk|talk]]) 06:01, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Your recent edits==<br />
[[Image:Information.svg|25px]] Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to [[Wikipedia:Talk page|talk pages]] and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion{{#if:|, such as on [[{{{1}}}]]}}, you should [[Wikipedia:Signatures|sign your posts]] by typing four [[tilde]]s ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button [[Image:Signature_icon.png]] located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. {{#if:|{{{2}}}|Thank you.}} <!-- Template:uw-tilde --> --[[User:SineBot|SineBot]] ([[User talk:SineBot|talk]]) 07:24, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Fermented bean curd ==<br />
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I moved [[Temp Fermented bean curd]] to [[Fermented bean curd]]. Is that what you intended? [[User:SchuminWeb|SchuminWeb]] ([[User talk:SchuminWeb|Talk]]) 04:22, 23 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Talkback ==<br />
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{{talkback|SchuminWeb|ts=02:15, 24 November 2009 (UTC)}}<br />
[[User:SchuminWeb|SchuminWeb]] ([[User talk:SchuminWeb|Talk]]) 02:15, 24 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Replaceable fair use File:Red fermented bean curd.jpg ==<br />
[[File:Ambox warning.svg|32px|left]]<br />
Thanks for uploading '''[[:File:Red fermented bean curd.jpg]]'''. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of [[Wikipedia:Non-free content|fair use]], but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our [[Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria|first non-free content criterion]] in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:<br />
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# Go to [[:File:Red fermented bean curd.jpg|the media description page]] and edit it to add {{tlx|di-replaceable fair use disputed}}, '''without deleting the original replaceable fair use template'''.<br />
# On [[File talk:Red fermented bean curd.jpg|the image discussion page]], write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.<br />
<br />
Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, [[Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission|requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license]], or by taking a picture of it yourself.<br />
<br />
If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on <span class="plainlinks">[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Hmm...&namespace=6 this link]</span>. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our [[Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria|non-free content policy]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you. <!-- Template:di-replaceable fair use-notice --> — [[User:Explicit|<font color="B22222">'''ξ'''</font>]][[User talk:Explicit|<font color="000000"><sup>xplicit</sup></font>]] 21:01, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==File source problem with File:First Female Medical College of Pennsylvania Building.JPG==<br />
[[File:Copyright-problem.svg|64px|left]]<br />
Thank you for uploading '''[[:File:First Female Medical College of Pennsylvania Building.JPG]]'''. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the [[copyright]] status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.<br />
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If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created [{{fullurl:Special:Log|type=upload&user=Hmm...}} in your upload log]. '''Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged''' per Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|criteria for speedy deletion]], [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#F4|F4]]. If the image is [[Wikipedia:Copyrights|copyrighted]] and [[Wikipedia:Non-free content|non-free]], '''the image will be deleted 48 hours after 17:22, 10 June 2010 (UTC)''' per [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] criterion [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#F7|F7]]. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-no source-notice --> [[User:Sfan00 IMG|Sfan00 IMG]] ([[User talk:Sfan00 IMG|talk]]) 17:22, 10 June 2010 (UTC)</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jack_Merridew&diff=372605136User talk:Jack Merridew2010-07-09T16:35:46Z<p>Hmm...: /* Coding Resource */ new section</p>
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<div>{{User talk:Jack Merridew/Notice}}<br />
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== Coding help! ==<br />
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Hey Jack. I was wondering if you could help me with something. How simple would it be to make {{tlx|Multiple image}} allow up to seven images, instead of the five it currently permits? ''÷[[user:seresin|seresin]]'' 06:21, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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: Looks quite straightforward; want me to just do it? Anyone gonna get bent? Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 06:24, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:: That would be great; thanks. If anyone gets bent I can just move it to a special template. <small>And, with respect, has "anyone getting bent" ever really been a big consideration? ;-) </small> ''÷[[user:seresin|seresin]]'' 06:26, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::: {{done}} Give it a whirl. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 06:28, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::: Thanks, but if you see [[User:Seresin/Sandbox|here]], there are some extraneous texts in the rendering. A similar thing happened when I tried to do it. Also, it seems that broke all the transclusions. If you're still feeling helpful and want to work on it, would you mind using a subpage, so we don't break the whole wiki? tx. ''÷[[user:seresin|seresin]]'' 06:32, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::: I must have missed some detail; will look further and run a test somewhere. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 06:38, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::: Ya, initial expression needs attention, too ;) [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 06:40, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::: See: [[Template:Multiple image/test]] and new examples in you sandbox. I believe it's now properly extended to seven. There's an issue with both old and new; see the latter examples where it's vertical and the widths are individually specified; the container's with is set to width1 + 12 even if the others are wider. A huge, nasty expression could find the max-width, but I'm not going to try that. I'll ping [[User:Thumperward|Chris]] for input, though, so... we'll see. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 07:40, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::: It works for what I needed it to, so I'm happy. You win a hundred internets Mr Merridew. Thanks very much. ''÷[[user:seresin|seresin]]'' 07:47, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::: You're welcome. Paste it over if you're happy with it (mebbe you did, will look); revert my last on the /doc, too, to get the 7 and example back. I'll be sure and bank those, right away. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 07:50, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::: and I see where you're using it, too ;) [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 07:54, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I think, actually, what I'll do is just make it a separate template that I'll use instead of merging it back to the main template. As you said there's something hairy about clipping in it, and if that can't be fixed I don't want to break all the templates out there. It works for the specific use I had in mind, so it's all good. So you don't really need to do much else to it, because I don't anticipate anyone using it. Thanks again. ''÷[[user:seresin|seresin]]'' 08:23, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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: The clipping issue is in the original, too; it's a limitation of the design and may be intentional. The fellow who wrote it is years-gone, so we have to muddle along. See what Chris says; I'm thinking it should go back into the current template. I've also not looked at any of the usages ;) Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 08:26, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:: Actually, the clipping is just caused by the template simply using width1 if it's specified. I've updated the sandbox to do a proper comparison, which seems to work fine. If you now want to increase the number of possible images then it should work.<br />
:: You might want to also note that if you're going to add new images then you need to update the width code as well as adding new conditionals. The vertical one is relatively easy (I wrote it in five minutes) but the horizontal one is ghastly. [[user:thumperward|Chris Cunningham (not at work)]] - [[user talk:thumperward|talk]] 08:48, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::: Thanks. I didn't see that sandbox; I made my own at [[Template:Multiple image/test]]. I'll noodle through what you've done tomorrow and probably merge-in what I was doing. I see that it's taking width1 and was hoping for an easy way around it. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 08:52, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::: It's done; I've expanded the template to cope with seven images, and think I can expand it to cope with more without too much effort (so long as I can keep a grasp of the conditionals in my head). Seresin, can you check if the sandbox code works okay for you now? [[user:thumperward|Chris Cunningham (not at work)]] - [[user talk:thumperward|talk]] 09:03, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::: Just caught me; looks good at first peek. Thank you.<br />
::::: seresin, thanks to you too, for bringing this here; I should be doing more of this. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 09:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::: [[Template:Multiple image/sandbox|Very nice work]] ;) This should become the live version; better in multiple ways. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 22:10, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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{{od}} This is finally live and working with 10 images. Woohoo. :) [[user:thumperward|Chris Cunningham (not at work)]] - [[user talk:thumperward|talk]] 12:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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: ;) [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 19:16, 14 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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*So we have a problem. With the live templates, the spacing on the side is being cut off. It worked before, but no longer. I don't know far back I would need to get the code so that it would work. So if/until that gets fixed, I've restored the /test subpage and am using that one, because it doesn't have the clipping problem. Thanks for both your help on this, btw. ''÷[[user:seresin|seresin]]'' 19:36, 15 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
*: Sorry 'bout that. Off to review the sandbox and test cases... Hope the vacation was nice. Too ''short'', obviously. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 00:06, 16 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Apologies ==<br />
<br />
Regarding that last sock report you wished help with. I did originally look at the case, but I didn't know enough about the situation/case to make an educated guess, and I didn't wish to shoot in the dark. I'm sorry that I haven't gotten back to you sooner about the matter; life has been rather busy on my end. I've been spending less and less time on wikipedia. Again, sorry for not contacting you sooner about this.— '''[[User:Daedalus969|<font color="Green">Dæ</font>]][[User talk:Daedalus969|<font color="Blue">dαlus</font>]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Daedalus969|<font color="Green">Contribs</font>]]</sup>''' 07:52, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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: That was Gabi/Sami, right? I archived that and have not looked much at them. They quack loudly and she'll get dinged one of these times; simply does not get the wiki. [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 07:56, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:: It was a bunch of IP socks if I recall... can't remember though, been distracted with 3d and mirc scripts. I can't remember the name of any suspected master. And again, I am sorry for not getting back sooner.— '''[[User:Daedalus969|<font color="Green">Dæ</font>]][[User talk:Daedalus969|<font color="Blue">dαlus</font>]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Daedalus969|<font color="Green">Contribs</font>]]</sup>''' 08:00, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::: I'd have to look; the one I was thinking is [[User talk:Jack Merridew/Archive 5#Sami50421/Gabi Hernandez]]. [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 08:08, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== DYK for Musca vetustissima ==<br />
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|small = <br />
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]<br />
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#June 7 2010|June 7, 2010]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Musca vetustissima]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201006/Musca_vetustissima quick check] )</small> and add it to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].<br />
}} <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 18:02, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Musca vetustissima ==<br />
<br />
It's weird that you were the first one to notice the article on the Spanish Wikipedia. It took me a long time to translate the article using a trick that I taught myself for Google Translate. [[User:Joe Chill|Joe Chill]] ([[User talk:Joe Chill|talk]]) 04:05, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: I saw the bot tag the article here with an es-iwlink, and clicked over and fussed a bit. I sussed out their orphan template to help our amigo's notice it. Nice work, Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 04:11, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[Scarlett Johansson]] ==<br />
<br />
I noticed you de-tabled the theater section, which makes sense because it was just one line, but if it isn't going to be tabled, should it be removed because it's already mentioned (and sourced) earlier in the article? Or do you think it bears repeating the information? <small><span>[[User:Chickenmonkey|<span style="background-color:#FF8833; color:black;">&nbsp;'''Chicken'''</span>]][[User talk:Chickenmonkey|<span style="background-color:black; color:#FF8833;">'''monkey'''&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 05:28, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: No, I'd not seen that it was mentioned elsewhere; I was not intending that it be a dupe. Feel free to merge/cut it, as you noticed it. I'll look and see, and if you don't choose to act, I may. Thanks, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 05:35, 8 June 2010 (UTC) I just cut it ;) [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 05:39, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Yeah, I wasn't sure if it might be a good idea to still include it in its own section, but I don't think that would be a good idea since it's just the one role. If it were more, it might be worth duplicating it -- as with films. <small><span>[[User:Chickenmonkey|<span style="background-color:#FF8833; color:black;">&nbsp;'''Chicken'''</span>]][[User talk:Chickenmonkey|<span style="background-color:black; color:#FF8833;">'''monkey'''&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 06:13, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lines ==<br />
Howdy. How do you get thin lines to appear between each parameter? see [[Parthenon]]? Can you add lines to the infobox building?[[User:Dr. Blofeld| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">'''''Dr. Blofeld'''''</font>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Dr. Blofeld| <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat</font></font color> ]]</sup> 15:23, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Hi. I missed this earlier, today. I've quick-peeked and didn't see an easy option. I'll look again after I deal with something else. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 20:36, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Take a deep breath ==<br />
<br />
Come on, how does pasting in that "template" at [[Talk:Scarlett Johansson]] help anything? And why does it really matter to you whether the table is blue or green or grey or sortable or not? Please take a step back from this, you seem to just be involved in this dispute for the drama. [[User:Fences and windows|<span style="background-color:white; color:red;">Fences</span>]]<span style="background-color:white; color:grey;">&amp;</span>[[User talk:Fences and windows|<span style="background-color:white; color:black;">Windows</span>]] 17:49, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: I'm fine, really. I'm not in this for "drama". I've been trying to address a huge coding mess in however many thousands of article for more than three months now. Problem is, ''they'' revert just about everything. In February or so, I was reverted on a bunch of articles with reference to WP:ACTOR's "authority" and some characterization of it as a 'governing' body. This is a ridiculous assertion of ownership. I've done a huge amount of clean up on hundreds of actor articles, all of it appropriate and clueful. I'm quite good at markup and styling. As I've explained many times, this is not about "blue vs grey", it's about poor coding practices and a few who claim a false consensus re their articles. The template is humour and was pointed out to me by someone last month; it's in my archive 5. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 18:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Alright good, then we can all take care to keep this drama-free. Markup and styling matter, sure, but take it slow and keep the humour to a minimum. Humour often doesn't translate well on the web and Wikipedians can be a humourless bunch when stuck in the middle of an edit war. Misplaced humour can just come across as snarkiness. If a group of editors are trying to assert a "local consensus" against style guidelines and consensus established elsewhere then the overall consensus will usually win through, especially if wider involvement is encouraged via WikiProjects or an RfC (rather than it appearing on people's radar via AN/I!). And if the wider consensus doesn't prevail (as it didn't when there was an attempt to add infoboxes to biogs of classical musicians), what's the worst that happens? A few slightly non-standard filmography tables stay around, which I'm sure you can live with. [[User:Fences and windows|<span style="background-color:white; color:red;">Fences</span>]]<span style="background-color:white; color:grey;">&amp;</span>[[User talk:Fences and windows|<span style="background-color:white; color:black;">Windows</span>]] 19:10, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: You do see that this is all over ANI and VPP the last few days? And that there was a huge RFC, already? And the whole mess last year, that I wasn't involved in, that damned this colour approach? There's talk on VPP and Moonriddengirl's talk about an RfC on colour usage at a site-wide level, and I'm willing to pursue that, too. The other party, however, is ignoring that and is in all-out wiki-war mode. The other option I'm considering, besides an RFC/U, is asking Ryan if this would be something MedCom would take on. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 19:34, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::You know, I don't think an RfC/U or mediation would help in the slightest. If you honestly think that would help resolve this dispute then you're naive: that would be escalation. At heart it's a simple dispute and the best way to resolve it is by involving more editors, not by you continuing to make this personal. Whatever the process and outcome of the new RfC, please avoid provoking Wildhartlivie. Just disengage from them. Try to avoid commenting on them, don't revert them, don't post speculations about sockpuppetry (and bringing up a history of sockpuppetry is more than a little ironic, no?). At the moment I'm less concerned about what colours, markup and sorting wikitables have and more concerned about you two taking chunks out of each other. [[User:Fences and windows|<span style="background-color:white; color:red;">Fences</span>]]<span style="background-color:white; color:grey;">&amp;</span>[[User talk:Fences and windows|<span style="background-color:white; color:black;">Windows</span>]] 12:55, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: This should be a simple dispute and I certainly want more editors involved. It's not proving simple, though, and I've been [[User:Jack Merridew/History|specifically instructed]] by the AC ''to follow Wikipedia policy and guidelines, and follow dispute resolution processes to resolve editing conflicts'' (& DR includes RfC/U and mediation). I intend to abide by that. Ya, there's an element of escalation, but it could help, too. And I'm not being naive or disingenuous here. Other routes can and should be pursued, such as a broad-focused RfC about colour and the skittlepedia effect. I have a lot of good ideas in these area that are wasted on the wrong audience.<br />
::::: I only mentioned WHL's socking because she referred to mine; just above my comment on your page. She also seems to think I'm saying that her ACTOR-friends are her socks; nope, just those 3. See the [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Wildhartlivie/Archive#Report date January 20 2010, 00:22 (UTC)|SPI]], and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Wildhartlivie/Archive&diff=prev&oldid=338940995 this]. Her friends just take [[meatball:DefendEachOther|DefendEachOther]] [[Operation Market Garden|a revert too far]].<br />
::::: WHL's saying a lot of [[User:Wildhartlivie/Stuff|stuff]] about me editing her articles, said somewhere else that she watches 500 articles. I laughed, because I'm watching almost 8,000 pages, including a thousand actor and filmmaker bios I got off [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers/Popular pages]]. She edits a lot of these, too. See [[WP:WATCHLIST]], which says ''you can keep track of and react to what's happening to pages you have created or are otherwise interested in''. My joining WP:ACTOR amounts to a statement of interest in these articles. They're a mess and need work. I don't see this as personal; I clean-up code all over these projects, and I intend to fix this area, too. She wants her articles left to her and co., and that's a major ownership problem that many have issue with.<br />
::::: I ''agree'' with most of what you've said above, and to WHL on your talk page. See the AC motion's second clause concerning advisers; I'll continue to listen to advice you offer. Terima kasih.<br />
::::: Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 23:51, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::: ps; while I've got your attention, could you unprotect [[User:Senang Hati]] and [[User talk:Senang Hati]]? They're me and I'll explain, but it should be some new thread.<br />
::::::OK, as long as you're approaching this calmly then I can't ask for anything more. Can you drop me a note about those accounts on my talk page? I'm happy to do it once I know why I'm unprotecting (I vaguely remember that this was one of your old usernames, and I see there was an issue of impersonation). [[User:Fences and windows|<span style="background-color:white; color:red;">Fences</span>]]<span style="background-color:white; color:grey;">&amp;</span>[[User talk:Fences and windows|<span style="background-color:white; color:black;">Windows</span>]] 00:35, 10 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I've moved that userpage and talk to semi-protected to allow you to add the notices. [[User:Fences and windows|<span style="background-color:white; color:red;">Fences</span>]]<span style="background-color:white; color:grey;">&amp;</span>[[User talk:Fences and windows|<span style="background-color:white; color:black;">Windows</span>]] 12:21, 10 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Thanks. I'll do something; I'm kinda busy. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 17:46, 10 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The Gore Effect AfD ==<br />
<br />
You previously commented on [[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Marknutley/The Gore Effect]]. A new version of the article has been created in article space at [[The Gore Effect]] and has been nominated for deletion. If you have any views on this, please feel free to comment at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Gore Effect]]. -- [[User:ChrisO|ChrisO]] ([[User talk:ChrisO|talk]]) 08:18, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TfD ==<br />
<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2010_June_9&diff=366927525&oldid=366919695] I'm certainly glad to see you agree with that deletion nomination. [[User:Wildhartlivie|Wildhartlivie]] ([[User talk:Wildhartlivie|talk]]) 10:34, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
{{tb|Moonriddengirl|Taking action}}<br />
<br />
== Email ==<br />
<br />
Check yours. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Teal" face="Tahoma">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</font>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Navy" face= "Times New Roman">Penny for your thoughts? </font>]] 20:25, 10 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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: I am, I am... ;) [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 20:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Um... ==<br />
<br />
You might find this a bizarre request, but here goes. Could you take a look at my [[User:Wildhartlivie|user page]] and see if you can fix the two run on templates in the [[User:Wildhartlivie#Awards|awards section]] and see if you could get it to behave so they aren't any wider than the others? I've tried piddling with it and can't get them to behave. Thanks. [[User:Wildhartlivie|Wildhartlivie]] ([[User talk:Wildhartlivie|talk]]) 11:39, 11 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: This ''is'' a bizarre request. For a lot of reasons; I'm amazed. We have had a few disputes, and I see quite a few of the issues we've not seen eye-to-eye on in your request. It strains credulity. Now, I know about AGF, but let me list some of the parallels:<br />
<br />
: I believe you're referring to the two "Special Barnstars" from [[User:Crohnie]], a friend of yours I've also been in dispute with, and [[User:Jameszerukjr]]. These awards were also 'seconded' by others, including Crohnie. These? They're not ''templates'', they're ''tables'' that have been subst'd from templates.<br />
<br />
:* Barnstar awards are implemented with tables<br />
:*: We've been having a dispute that involves tables heavily<br />
:*:* including the concern that editors have trouble with table syntax<br />
:*:* You're dismissive of this issue, hold that more experienced editors will fix things up; me, in this case<br />
:* The barnstar awards use rowspans to make the images span multiple rows of adjacent text<br />
:*: I've been critical of overuse of rowspan because many editors have trouble with their proper use<br />
:*:* The fix to the mess on your user page is to correct the improper use of rowspans<br />
:*:* You're dismissive of this issue, hold that it's a non-issue that n00bz will soon get over<br />
:* The barnstar awards are praise for:<br />
:*: ''kindness, friendship and help''<br />
:*: ''being helpful, supportive, patient (even in the face of rudeness), and for making Wikipedia a better place to be.''<br />
:*: ''your constant civility even when times get super rough.''<br />
:*:* These users are entitled to have such sentiments, but, as you're well aware, ''I don't hold such views re you''<br />
:*:*: I hold views ''opposed'' to those views; you're belligerent, ''rude'' and ''not'' making this a better place to be<br />
:*:*: You're asking me to tidy-up awards I assuredly do not support<br />
:*:* You were just warned for personal attacks and probably should have been blocked, too<br />
:*:*: You've been exceedingly uncivil to me, have been attacking me and seeking my head<br />
:*:*:* no one much bought it<br />
<br />
: The first of these was [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AWildhartlivie&action=historysubmit&diff=279628802&oldid=279626511 awarded] improperly; with bad markup (which I've expressed concerns about;). Oddly, it has two timestamps, and significantly, it does not include the closing <nowiki>|}</nowiki> for the table, so that when others posted just below it, their posts were included in the last cell of the table; [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AWildhartlivie&action=historysubmit&diff=279753753&oldid=279743134 second], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AWildhartlivie&action=historysubmit&diff=279971872&oldid=279955291 fix-attempt], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AWildhartlivie&action=historysubmit&diff=279743134&oldid=279628802 Pinkadelica's post gets entangled with the corrupt table], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AWildhartlivie&action=historysubmit&diff=279973431&oldid=279971872 another fix-attempt], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AWildhartlivie&action=historysubmit&diff=279992726&oldid=279992358 ditto from Crohnie], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AWildhartlivie&action=historysubmit&diff=280408056&oldid=279991932 you paste the mess onto your user page], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Wildhartlivie&diff=prev&oldid=346419905 another second gets improperly added].<br />
: Do you see the bizarre parallels? How this illustrates a lot of what I've been saying? You, and a lot of other editors, know very little about markup and other technical matters. This is not an attack; I know very little about brain surgery, I am ''incompetent'' to speak in that area. You should not be so dismissive of outsiders who know more about things than you do.<br />
:: {{done}} [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AWildhartlivie&action=historysubmit&diff=367480617&oldid=367410045 teh fix]<br />
: I've [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AWildhartlivie&action=historysubmit&diff=367480805&oldid=367480617 reverted it], too, as there's another possible fix; cut the extra rows on the right-side so that the number of rows over there matches the number of rows spanned on the left.<br />
:: {{done}} [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AWildhartlivie&action=historysubmit&diff=367481738&oldid=367480805 another fix]<br />
: [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 20:18, 11 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Thank you. Take into consideration that a lot of that was done over 15 months ago, I have gained more skill with working with tables in the meanwhile, and what you may or may not have gathered from what's been said about my vision disability problems is that it causes problems with tracking. Looking at it for too long makes it meld into mush and I can't track from one line to the next cohesively. It's sort of like the problems that befall toddlers who end up with later reading difficulty because they never learned to crawl before they learn to walk. Crawling helps develop skills in visual tracking. That's why my dickering with it wasn't helpful, I couldn't see across one side to the other, I keep skipping lines. That's why the US government says I'm disabled, finally. A lot of times I run it through Dragon NaturallySpeaking software to listen to what I've typed. It doesn't work on table coding. *shrug* Then add in that as you've said, you are good at this and experienced and you've cleaned up userpages for many editors you don't particularly get along with, so I looked at it, and thought that maybe you could see it much easier than I can. Anyone requires practice to gain competence and unless someone explains where the problem is, as you did above, it ends up being missed. But why did you revert the first fix as [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AWildhartlivie&action=historysubmit&diff=367480805&oldid=367480617 ''vandalism'']? Surely piddling with something as a request isn't vandalism.<br />
<br />
::As for the Frances Farmer thing, see it as you want. I tried very hard to be good and the crap flying just got thicker and everything I said was twisted and parroted back. The icing was the psychological issues comment and the copy and paste job on what was clearly a personal attack back to my page. I didn't seek anyone to deal with it, Sarek did it on his own, he doesn't countenance psych comments well. Note that the warning was for the edit summary of asking if we were 5 years old, not for trying to clarify anything or for his assertions, either. It felt so 5 year old to me by then. *shrug* You see it your way, I see it mine (and thinking, "Well, you can't see" isn't it). As I've asked before about the coding, I can see what was wrong when you fixed it and pointed out the problem, finding it through my eyes wasn't so easy. People learn by vicarious experience&nbsp;— seeing is learning. That isn't incompetence, it's being able to see it. I think the odd two time stamp thing came somehow from Jameszerukjr pasting over his intial post somehow. I was surprised that he knew how to even approach doing it, he hasn't edited much here at all. You don't have to see things the way the people who left the "awards" do. Their interpersonal experiences with me vs. you with them or me with you isn't the same experience. I lost it way back when I felt like you were telling me I was too stupid to understand an explanation about the coding. In any case, thanks for fixing what I couldn't see and the willingness to do it, even if it made you laugh. [[User:Wildhartlivie|Wildhartlivie]] ([[User talk:Wildhartlivie|talk]]) 01:04, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::: I ''reverted'' it as vandalism because doing so is ''funny''&nbsp;— an allusion to other criticisms. You're welcome. [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 01:35, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::And I grinned when I saw it, I thought it was ironic. [[User:Wildhartlivie|Wildhartlivie]] ([[User talk:Wildhartlivie|talk]]) 03:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::I stumbled upon this exchange, and being partly aware of the past issues between you two, and I feel compelled to say that, this thread is worthy of high praise on both of you. Even though there are some expressions that may needed to have been aired, the end result was both parties getting some satisfaction out the exchange. May I send this exchange to the United Nations negotiating commanders as a possible example as to how to solve the Middle East crisis!? LOL! I applaud you both (until next time of course). [[User:Victor9876|Victor9876]] ([[User talk:Victor9876|talk]]) 00:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Collapsible sections ==<br />
<br />
The section above was an interesting read; the diagnosis and conclusion were spot on. This is precisely why I keep your talk page on my watchlist. Now that I have finished praising you, I thought I would ask a quick question. Do you know if it possible to create a collapsible section where the show/hide links float correctly next to an infobox? For example, if you look [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Plastikspork&oldid=367517569 here], you will see that the show/hide links are floating under the box on the right. The template that is creating the collapsible section is not substantially different from {{tl|collapsible list}}. It is interesting that the edit section links float perfectly. I ended up using a hack to reduce the width in the current incarnation. I'm sure allowing such functionality is not a high priority given that such things are not desired in article space. In any event, if you have any thoughts let me know. Any and all responses are acceptable, as I welcome all constructive criticism. Best regards, [[User:Plastikspork|Plastikspork]] [[User talk:Plastikspork|<sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ</sub><sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)</sup>]] 00:44, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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: Thanks. And I considered not saying much.<br />
: I'm seeing the show/hide links over infoboxes and you want them to only go so far right as to be almost up to the left of the boxes. The links are positioned with absolute positioning, 3px from the right; 'the right' is the 'containing block' (css term) and to fix this you need to have a containing block that amounts to the area of the page other than the infoboxes's area (i.e. an element with <tt>position: relative;</tt>). This will entail a revisit of the page's layout scheme. I did about that on a prior version of my user page, which I've just restored. The layout mechanism is in the main page, and it then pulls in subpages and on the left one I added the example.jpg floating to the right. You can skip the transclusion aspect or adapt it to what you're doing with subpages. The key to the layout technique is the the use of a negative margin that agrees with the width of the right column. The usual reference for this technique is:<br />
:* http://www.alistapart.com/articles/negativemargins/<br />
: Hope that helps. Feel free to revert my user page back when you're done looking. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 01:26, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Yes, that does help. Margin-right appears to be the key. Do I need the px for the units? Thanks! [[User:Plastikspork|Plastikspork]] [[User talk:Plastikspork|<sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ</sub><sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)</sup>]] 02:00, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: I'm watching and tempted to tweak. CSS wants units (px, em, others; zero's an exception; 0 is zero;), but mixed units can be a problem for layout. Just using margin-right may work well enough, but just dropping one wrapper div with <tt>margin-right: -260px;</tt> around your content ought to do it. The usual approach for a solid layout is the wrappers and inner and outer divs as I was using. The inner ones get the padding and this is key to solid cross-browser compatibility. All relevant to the above discussion, too, as it's a layout approach that is all about avoiding the use of tables for layout, which has been on most professional shit lists for about 6 years. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 02:10, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: Yes, that is much better. This all started after someone dropped a note on my talk page about how bad it looked in IE. I agree that tables shouldn't be used for layout, but I still find myself going back to old habits from back in the early 1990s. Thanks for the help and feel free to modify it more if you feel the urge. [[User:Plastikspork|Plastikspork]] [[User talk:Plastikspork|<sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ</sub><sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)</sup>]] 02:37, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: I have little sympathy for IE users; theirs are self-inflicted problems. I've also stopped supporting IE6 and IE7. The hasty tweak I added has some extra margin and padding going on that you may want changed. Most of it is for the context I was using it in, which included an outer level around everything and some borders and background colours. Absent that, some can be zero'd out. You see how the show/hide links are 3px in from where the edit links are? That's the positioning in there by default. I'll take a further look at your page. It'll be a bit as I'll be busy for the next week. Travelling, too. The code I added can probably have a level pared out of it and I believe infobox can have things simplified, too. fyi, my first browser was [[Mosaic (web browser)|Mosaic]]. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 03:10, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* [[User:Wildhartlivie|Wildhartlivie]] uses [[Mozilla Foxfire]]. (trying to buy some respect?) [[User:Wildhartlivie|Wildhartlivie]] ([[User talk:Wildhartlivie|talk]]) 03:23, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
*: ''[[Foxfire]]?'' Never heard of it. [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 18:25, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
*:: It is the Russian version&nbsp;– "In Soviet Russia, the web browses YOU!". [[User:Plastikspork|Plastikspork]] [[User talk:Plastikspork|<sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ</sub><sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)</sup>]] 18:49, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== year-cells as row-headers ==<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width: 24em; float: right; margin-left: 1em;"<br />
|+ row/col spans<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="2" | Remember that this is only a preview; your changes have not yet been saved!<br />
| rowspan="2" | Remember that this is only a preview; your changes have not yet been saved!<br />
|-<br />
| rowspan="2" | Remember that this is only a preview; your changes have not yet been saved!<br />
| Remember that this is only a preview; your changes have not yet been saved!<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="2" | Remember that this is only a preview; your changes have not yet been saved!<br />
|}<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width: 24em; clear: right; float: right; margin-left: 1em;"<br />
|+ row/col spans<br />
|-<br />
| rowspan="2" | Remember that this is only a preview; your changes have not yet been saved!<br />
| colspan="2" | Remember that this is only a preview; your changes have not yet been saved!<br />
|-<br />
| Remember that this is only a preview; your changes have not yet been saved!<br />
| rowspan="2" | Remember that this is only a preview; your changes have not yet been saved!<br />
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[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cate_Blanchett&curid=160126&diff=367557798&oldid=366547588 I like the way this looks]. Better than that bloody "year in film" linked up method. I spend too much time removing those links. That's a very simple change to implement. [[User:Wildhartlivie|Wildhartlivie]] ([[User talk:Wildhartlivie|talk]]) 06:56, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::; this-is-a-test<br />
:: fix table to go the other way 'round<br />
::: time's up ;)<br />
<div style="color: rgba( 128, 128, 128, 0.20 );"><br />
:The two of you working together kind of chokes me up - really. I'm sure there will be "spats", but... oh, man! Coolness... :> [[User:Doc9871|Doc9871]] ([[User talk:Doc9871|talk]]) 07:08, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
</div><br />
: You're missing the point. It is not about appearance.<br />
<br />
:* [[Separation of presentation and content]].<br />
:* [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Semantic_markup&redirect=no Semantic markup]<br />which redirects to a now-missing section; find that in history, too<br />
<br />
: You need to understand this distinction.<br />
: [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 07:34, 12 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: p.s. I liked the way she looked in [[Plenty (play)]]<br />
<br />
== Rowspan ==<br />
<br />
re [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Scarlett_Johansson&curid=20913246&diff=367734988&oldid=367734877 this] edit. I am a programmer myself, so I get the whole "keep logic separate" idea; however, it is a guideline and not something universally taught. You mentioned that "rowspan" was deprecated. According to whom and what WP policy? [[User:Nymf|Nymf]] <sub>[[User_talk:Nymf|hideliho!]]</sub> 10:29, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:By the way, if you're bored, the horrendously coded [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gossip_Girl_%28TV_series%29&action=edit&section=14 awards tables] is something you could improve. ;) [[User:Nymf|Nymf]] <sub>[[User_talk:Nymf|hideliho!]]</sub> 11:17, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: If you're thinking I meant site-wide, no. I was referring to in the context of sortable tables. There's a lot of talk about rowspan on my talk page; at least four threads, there's also a thread on [[User talk:Fences and windows]] (where I mentioned on old edit of yours) and discussion on [[WT:ACTOR]]. See [[WP:TABLES##Formatting]], end of second paragraph; ''merged cells'' refers to row/col spans. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 20:26, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== A mentor needed ==<br />
<br />
Hello sir, I am above 60, Have been reading a lot on Wikipedia, later tried to write, [[Adil Khan]] was my first try, later I wrote about [[Oslo City Culture Award]], [[Oslo City artist award]] and last article was about [[Kjersti Alveberg]](which is not complete yet). Can you please be my mentor and reply me whenever I need help. Since I am new, I don't know how to make tables, I copied a table from [[Whitney Houston]]'s page, studied that and changed that to fit my requirements, later I found another table from [[Shahid Afridi]]'s page, I decided to use the last one for adil khan's wikipedia English article and decided to use the [[Whitney Houston]] table for adil khans Norwegian profile. Lately I discovered that the [[Shahid Afridi]]'s table I used for Adil Khan has been deleted: My question is that if there are certain tabels which are reserved for certain person and others are not allowed to use those, is there any possibility if I can use the table which is on [[Whitney Houston]]'s page because that has remained on Adil Khan's page for some time and was not removed until I changed that. If it is not allowed to use table from [[Shahid Afridi]]'s page, can you pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease allow me to use that table from [[Whitney Houston]] page because the tabel which is now on adil khan's is completely lifeless.<br />
2: There is a tag attached to my article about [[Kjersti Alveberg]], so far I had added just one Reference, I have to add a lot more References later, if I add more reference, would i be allowed to remove that " citation needed" tag. My second question is if i can give links to "Youtube" as reference, since there is a good deal of material related to [[Kjersti Alveberg]]on Youtube.<br />
My last question: when I am done with an article, can I ask you for help to correct the article if there is any grammatical error. The reason for this is that English is not my mother language and it is very common for me to make such errors<br />
regards [[User:Jogibaba|Jogibaba]] ([[User talk:Jogibaba|talk]]) 16:32, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Well, I'll offer advice, as asked. First advice it to follow the format I've shown you several times in those articles, including the citation format. What you're calling 'life' in tables is gratuitous markup that conveys little or no real meaning to readers. Most table are just fine using <tt>class="wikitable"</tt>. The examples you're looking at are ''poor'' examples and ''they'' need work, not copying of their formatting to yet more articles. If you add a bunch of good references to the article I tagged, sure, remove the tag. I or someone else will look and re-tag if warranted. Please do not use [[YouTube]]; see [[WP:YOUTUBE]] for why.<br />
: You are way too focused on [[Adil Khan]] and I strongly recommend that you shift your focus to the broader encyclopaedia. Adil Khan is likely [[WP:NOTE|not notable]] and may well end up deleted or redirected. I expressed a [[WP:COI|conflict of interest]] concern about you and this article before. Best to move on, methinks. You referred to the other one as ''your article'' and it's not; they're Wikipedia's articles. See [[WP:OWN|ownership of articles]]. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 21:46, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hi Jack! I have to object to your characterization of Khan as non-notable. He has won notable awards, and there's loads of coverage in RSs. I honestly can't see how the outcome of a prospective AfD would result in anything but a snow keep. Regards, <code>[[User:Decltype|decltype]]</code> <small>([[User talk:Decltype|talk]])</small> 06:55, 17 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Last I looked there were some sources in the article in Norwegian, so I've little idea about their quality, and I've not gone looking for any. There's another winner of the Norwegian dance fever that was redirected. Thanks for the input; Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 04:30, 18 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Hello sir, as far it goes for adil khan, he is more than a winner of dance fever, there are 2 other winners after him, one for danse fever and another for "so you think you can dance, scandinavia", but they are completely forgotten, nobody even remembers their name. While Adil Khan is in the media, tv, newspaper, female magazines. He is just 27 and a star in Norway, he is doing theatre and films, as far i have come to know, the leading publishing house of norway is coming with adil Khan's biography. another rumor is that he is having some contacts with Indian filmmakers. Adil have the potential of being a next big thing.<br />
:: But the reason I am writing is that I have added around 15 referances for [[Kjersti Alveberg]], are these enough or I should look for more.[[User:Jogibaba|Jogibaba]] ([[User talk:Jogibaba|talk]]) 15:59, 19 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Hi, I wanted to write a message, but I managed to remove the the reply by [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] to [[User:Decltype|decltype]], this i have pasted back to avoid causing problem to myself or anybody else. My apology.[[User:Jogibaba|Jogibaba]] ([[User talk:Jogibaba|talk]]) 19:41, 20 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: I've sorted the mess on this page, and I've got the references on [[Kjersti Alveberg]] to be using our citation templates. Please keep this use of templates and try and fill in the fields with English. It would help of you fond sources that are in English, as few here speak Norwegian. You might also seek the input of an editor here who also speaks both languages well. [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 01:22, 22 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Thanks a lot for sorting the mess at [[Kjersti Alveberg]]'s page. I would love to give references to the english language site, but unfortunately there isn't any such thing available to me. Everything is published in Norwegian, and as far I know, there isn't even one single newspaper or magazine which is published in English Language. But if I manage to get any source in English, I would refer to that, as I have done in the case of one referance in Kjersti's articel. Since I am new here and all of my knowledge is based on copying others by clicking "edit" and seeing how others have done something. Therefore I don't know how to use "citation template" in referances. Are you, please, kind enough to guide me in this matter. Thanks in advance.[[User:Jogibaba|Jogibaba]] ([[User talk:Jogibaba|talk]]) 12:26, 22 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: You're welcome. How about you update the titles using Google translate? See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kjersti_Alveberg&action=historysubmit&diff=369791397&oldid=369790158 one I did]. I see that you've been chatting with decltype and that he speaks Norwegian, so you may have better luck with the nuts and bolts issues, there. I don't speak Norwegian. I do like the work of [[Hans Petter Moland]], especially [[Kjærlighetens kjøtere]]. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 19:50, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::: Hi jack, I have sorted few references with google translater ( the way you tolf me to do ), now I discovered a new method, can you please check the first reference in [[Adil Khan]]'s page. ^ Asle Hansen (2006-03-20). "Adil was dancing king". when I click to this link, it shows the article translated in English, please can you click on that and let me know if it does the same for you. If it is so, then I can use the same method for all the references in every article I have written so far and also to those which I am going to write in future. Another question, if it is allowed to translate article from Norwegian wikipedia and paste it on the English section. I am asking this question because I saw [[Gullruten]] in English section which is really an orphan article. Somebody wrote few lines and forgot to add more information or update that. The recipient of the award are from 2007 while this award is given every year.[[User:Jogibaba|Jogibaba]] ([[User talk:Jogibaba|talk]]) 17:59, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I have done all the references in Adil's page, these are working for me, hope I would get a feedback from you. If this method is accepted, then I would do the same with other articles.[[User:Jogibaba|Jogibaba]] ([[User talk:Jogibaba|talk]]) 23:12, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::: These seem steps in the right direction. I'm wondering if there's a proper way to include both the link to the original as well as a link to Google's translation tool in the cite template. Getting the titles translated helps, too. Translating from other language wikipedias is perfectly acceptable. You should include a link to the source page on [[no:]] or [[nn:]] in the edit summary; a note on the talk page about it would be goodness, too. There may be a template or other mechanism that's deemed standard for this, but I've no specifics in mind; just makes sense to me. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 20:08, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Hi jack, there is one very easy way to find out the original version of the google translated reference, you might have noticed that if you have clicked on a google translated reference, you will find two URL, one is at the very top, in the upper browser, that is for the translated version, but you can also see another URL in the lower browser(Google translate..URL..translate), one can copy this URL from the lower browser and paste in the upper one and ENTER, this would lead to the original article/reference:. If just one sentence needs to be checked, just moved the mouse and bring the arrow close to the sentence which is needed to be seen in the original language, there would appear a window with the original sentence, asking if you can offer a better translation. I think this could be accepted as a reasonable soloution. But I must admit that the translation from google is sometime very funny. The title which was supposed to be translated like " The nominees for Hedda Awards 2008/2009 " is translated "The nominees for Hedda Prices 2008/2009". The reason is that norwegian word "pris" means " Price, prize and award", so google chose the first word, another title which should have been " Adil received Røykfriprisen (cigarette free award) on a busy tobacco free day" was translated like "Adil received Røykfriprisen on tobacco busy day" . But still it is better than not to have any translation because one can easily understand what is the article all about. Regards[[User:Jogibaba|Jogibaba]] ([[User talk:Jogibaba|talk]]) 18:22, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== NBSP ==<br />
<br />
Why require spaces? I don't get the use of NBSP; seems pointless. Is it really just that people hate to go with the flow and let the line breaks happen when they happen? If you could point me to the relevant guideline I'd appreciate it.<br />
<br />
Also since Wikipedia forces page names to use capital letters and the page for [[Template:Anchors]] and [[Template:Reflist]] appear using that capitalisation it makes sense to me to just use that capitalisation. It is one extra keystroke and it looks tidier to me. I don't expect anyone else to do but I wonder why you changed it to lowercase. Again you seem to know what you're doing so I'm wondering if there is some trick I'm missing or yet another guideline somewhere.<br />
<br />
At the end of citations I put a line break before the closing ''ref'' tag. This doesn't usually make any difference but I got in the habit of it since it makes things a little clearer if two (or more) references are right beside other in the page source, and they don't blend together into quite so much of a great big block of parameters.<br />
<br />
I'm trying to show [[WP:AGF|good faith]] and restore my "lost" edits in small pieces to help make it clearer which were a matter of personal style and which were perfectly good edits that should not have been removed. The poor quality of the built in diff tool is making it difficult and tediously slow to see what details were "lost". Since the other editor showed enough good faith to comment I'm now willing to put in a bit more work of my own to figure out what work was hidden in his edits. – [[User:Horkana|Horkana]] ([[User talk:Horkana|talk]]) 20:35, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: The non-breaking spaces are about proper line-wrap; it's recommended in the [[WP:MOS]] somewhere and was done with one of the standard clean-up scripts. The idea is to keep the dashes with the content that precedes them and allow the content after a dash to wrap to the next line, as needed. The case of the initial letter of templates (and articles) does not matter and that, too, was done by a tool. I believe that, too, is about readability.<br />
<br />
: You should, of course, restore appropriate edits that may have been lost; I didn't review those in any detail. The MediaWiki diff tool gets confused by complex edits; most all such tools get lost in the face of radical differences. MediaWiki's certainly could be better, though. I do often make complex edits as a sequence of smaller edits, but not everyone does, and I don't always. It's more work, but it does give better clarity as to what was done. It's not an unreasonable thing to ask for in areas of dispute, but people will often take the path that is the least work for ''them'' and leave it to ''other editors'' to muck through what they did. See how I just formatted the refs in [[Jessica Biel]]; it's a good format to adopt.<br />
: fyi, wildhartlivie is a she, not a he, and I've seen her get offended when other editors do not realize it. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 20:53, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Thanks. Again I feel like I'm missing a trick by not using all these fancy tools. I suppose I should chase it upstream but I'll just get on with editing. My revert was based on taking the path of least work too, it seems like the standard approach to disputed edits. Still forced to do more work and justify ever small edit but your reformatting of the links at least takes some of the pain out of it.<br />
:: I noticed WildHartLivie referred to me as she, she is welcome to do so if she likes. I try to refer not to use too many pronouns and just refer to "[[On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog|editors]]", I will try to be delicate in my use of pronouns. If she is annoyed by others unknowingly using the wrong pronoun makes it seem all the more strange to me that she wants to use the word actor and not actress.<br />
:: Thanks for your time, I've spent far too much of my time on this for now and must get on with other things but I'll probably continue to try and improve the Jessica Biel article if you care to check back on it and make suggestions. – [[User:Horkana|Horkana]] ([[User talk:Horkana|talk]]) 21:17, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Reverting ''is'' a standard approach concerning editing disputes. But it's not supposed to be. In the case of a large edit where an aspect is under dispute while other aspects are not, it is often best to simple edit to address the specific area of dispute, but there is a trade-off involved when a pretty large chuck of an edit is problematic. One may also revert and then restore part of the revert edits. And sometimes it is appropriate to full-revert; judegement is required on Wikipedia and those with ''good'' judgment do better. Happy editing, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 21:23, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Deleting older file uploads ==<br />
<br />
Hey Jack, I need to delete some files due to forgetting to redact some info. I re-uploaded the files with the redactions, but I can't find where to delete the originals. Can you help? They are here:<br />
<br />
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Power_of_Attorney.pdf<br />
<br />
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TWCC_Award.pdf<br />
<br />
...at the bottom of the pages are the old files of June 12th that need to be deleted. Thanks in advance! [[User:Victor9876|Victor9876]] ([[User talk:Victor9876|talk]]) 22:41, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: seems to have moved along. Happy editing, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 19:38, 14 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Jessica Biel ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for fixing the odd pagemove to [[User:Horkana/Jessica Biel]], but please remember to provide attribution for copy/paste moves somehow as indicated at [[WP:COPYWITHIN]]. Cheers! [[User:VernoWhitney|VernoWhitney]] ([[User talk:VernoWhitney|talk]]) 22:42, 13 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Hi. I was in a bit of a hurry ;) I had had and edit conflict with the ''move'' and was intent on getting that [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jessica_Biel&action=historysubmit&diff=367824038&oldid=367823982 saved]. I've left an oldid in and edit summary there. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 19:37, 14 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Thanks! [[User:VernoWhitney|VernoWhitney]] ([[User talk:VernoWhitney|talk]]) 20:23, 14 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: No problem; thanks for the reminder; nb: it's not csd'd after a note to Horkana. redink, soon enough. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 04:40, 15 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Infobox Jericho episode ==<br />
It comes complete with a [[morse code]] section. [[User:Plastikspork|Plastikspork]] [[User talk:Plastikspork|<sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ</sub><sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)</sup>]] 01:36, 15 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== FYI ==<br />
<br />
[[Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests#Jack Merridew]]. ''÷[[user:seresin|seresin]]'' 18:23, 17 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Thanks. I'm traveling at the moment. It's amusing. And a tad surreal. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 04:26, 18 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Speedy deletion of [[Template:Multiple image/test]] ==<br />
A tag has been placed on [[Template:Multiple image/test]] requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under [[WP:CSD#T3|section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion]], because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.<br />
<br />
If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<tt>&lt;noinclude>&#123;{transclusionless}}&lt;/noinclude></tt>).<br />
<br />
Thanks. <!-- Template:Db-csd-notice-custom --> [[user:thumperward|Chris Cunningham (not at work)]] - [[user talk:thumperward|talk]] 09:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Filmography table ==<br />
<br />
Hello Jack, I'm going to update any filmography tables that I notice that are still using the previously used header format. I realize the color question still hasn't been resolved, but the format discussion has, and I agree with you on that. So, I don't think it should fall upon one editor to do all the updating, and I'm happy to change any that I find. Can you please have a look at [[Jane Alexander]] as one example, and let me know if I've done that correctly. Thanks [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 14:09, 18 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Also, I know it's been mentioned in discussions, but I'm not sure what the end result was for tables that combine film/television with two header sections within a single table. Example [[Sasha Alexander]]. Have you been doing anything with those? [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 14:15, 18 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Hi. I have no issue with what you did to Jane Alexander, as far is it goes; I took it further and hope you'll follow suit. The edits I just made begin with key other fixes that are uncontroversial, such as proper quotes on the rowspans and a fix re an omitted cell. The others are not essential but are all good form. There's more, but I've little time at the moment.<br />
: The bugged together tables such as on Sasha Alexander are semantic gibberish due to the weird headers; both due to the tv section headers being in the middle of the table and the colspanning rows for film/tv. I've been meaning to have a chat with [[User:HJ Mitchell]] about this; [[Lindsay Lohan]] and [[Miley Cyrus]], specifically. How about you start a neutral chat with him and I'll chip-in circa Monday? I have touched a few of these, but not much or many. I am, of course, against the embedded markup in those. I've tidied that-up, too. All ignoring the blue elephant in the room... Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 06:57, 19 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
: p.s. Please stop converting "–" to <nowiki>"&amp;ndash;"</nowiki>—they are the same character and this site uses [[UTF-8]] encoding, not [[ASCII]] or [[ISO-8859-1]], so we should use the real character. About the only [[character entity]] that is appropriate is the <nowiki>&amp;nbsp;</nowiki>. (nb: clarified postscript)<br />
<br />
:: I also have no issue with the subsequent edits you made to Jane Alexander, with the exception of the removal of "U.S" from the infobox. I don't think the MoS specifically covers using or not using the country in the infobox, but it is used on (as far as I have noticed) the majority of U.S. actor infoboxes, and it's also the only place in the infobox that denotes country of origin/nationality. In the article body I would never say "Los Angeles, California, U.S." but in the infobox I would. Regarding the bugged-together film/tv table, I was mainly thinking about the headers rather than the bugging-together of them, and you've answered my main question on that point. I'm not sure what to say to [[User:HJ Mitchell]] as I'm not sure you and I are talking about the same thing here, but if you start a discussion with him at some point, I'd be glad to discuss.<br />
<br />
::As for the ndashes, fair enough. That's something I didn't know, so thanks for pointing it out. [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 13:58, 19 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: "U.S." is gratuitous in the context of "[[Boston]], Massachusetts", as would be "Earth" and such. I chose to not continue an insipid bit over the use of <tt><nowiki>United&amp;nbsp;States</nowiki></tt> vs <tt><nowiki>{{nowrap|United States}}</nowiki></tt> (on [[Natalie Wood]]); the character entity is the more appropriate of the two as it is succinct and presents less snot in the wikitext than a template invocation entails, and outright omission is fine unless doing so results in a real ambiguity. Mebbe the county Georgia and the US State share a place name... I don't believe there's been much discussion about the bugged-together film/tv tables, but believe that [[User:HJ Mitchell]] may be a proponent of that format. I'll ping him next week, when I have more time. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 23:15, 19 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: I'm not trying to engage you in conversation while you're busy, but I'll reply while this is fresh in my mind. I don't see "U.S." as gratuitous. I see it more as comprehensiveness and consistency and it is very widely used, although the widely used argument should be countered by [[WP:OSE|other crap exists]] when it's wrong. The same logic should dictate that people should know "Paris", "Berlin", "Shanghai" and "Oslo", and that the city name alone should suffice, because those names are well known, virtually unique and linking to the city article page removes all possible ambiguity, but we still include "France", "Germany", "China" and "Norway". Similarly, we don't usually use only "Sydney, New South Wales", or "Melbourne, Victoria", even though the inclusion of "Australia" is stating the bleeding obvious to an Australian. Bearing in mind that this is English language Wikipedia, a lot of users are not in the U.S., and for a lot of people geographical knowledge extends barely beyond the world that they've actually experienced. About a week ago someone was telling me something about [[Mexico]], and long story short, it was about [[Albuquerque, New Mexico|Albuquerque]], and you and I both know that's not in Mexico. I tried to tactfully explain the difference between Mexico and New Mexico and got a blank look. Not that I'm in favour of dumbing down our content to accommodate my geographically unaware colleague, but instead of tailoring the infobox to the level of knowledge of "many" users we should be tailoring it to "as many as possible" users, even at the risk of redundancy. As I said before, in the article body I would absolutely not use the full thing. When I was about 10 I would say I lived in Brisbane, Australia, Southern Hemisphere, Earth which is pretty ludicrous. The infobox as a short summary should be a "stand-alone" entity in providing basic information. The lede section would say "Famous person (born Los Angeles, California, January 1, 1920) is an American actor" without restating the "U.S." even though it would still give the same information if it said "is an actor." Anyway, you're busy, so let's leave this for another time. I'll keep a lookout on [[User:HJ Mitchell]]'s talk page. I thought the bugged-together tables had been mentioned somewhere along the line, but I wasn't sure if it had been discussed further. [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 00:02, 20 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: I'm not taking a hard stand on the country bit, although I do believe we should avoid catering to the lowest common denominator. I looked at a fistful of random bios, not just actors, and the country is often there. As said, avoiding a pissing match with you-know-who was in my mind. If I wasn't clear, <tt><nowiki>United&amp;nbsp;States</nowiki></tt> vs <tt><nowiki>{{nowrap|United States}}</nowiki></tt> produce the exact same effect and avoiding breaking the two words is not really necessary; and "U.S." avoids that issue. Feel free to stick "U.S." back; on Wood, too.<br />
::::: I'd not realized you were in [[Brisbane]], [[Queensland]], [[Oz]], [[Down Under]]; you know [[User:John Vandenberg|John]]? You should; he knows all about me ;) I know lots of [[wikt:mate|mates]] and [[wikt:sheila|sheilas]]. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 01:09, 20 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::: I've often argued against catering to the lowest common denominator, and I didn't see it in this issue until you mentioned it. I don't think it's a deal breaker though. I see it more as bringing everything to an equal playing field. I've noticed there are some types of bios that don't use the country in the infobox. Politicians for one example. A number of the "instruction" page for several infoboxes advocate the use of country, and some don't, and I guess it springs partly from there. I usually change "United States" to "U.S." to avoid the wrap issue. I don't know John, but as he's a Brisbanite, I'm sure he's a [[wikt:bonzer|bonzer]] [[wikt:bloke|bloke]]. [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 09:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::: If you end up pinging [[User:HJ Mitchell]], [[Jennifer Aniston]] might be a good example to refer to. [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 08:37, 21 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::: I take a site-wide approach, and most editors here don't; they only care about some areas of interest. Generally speaking, this is less than ideal as it results in too much local thinking and produces fault lines within the project. It also results in massively unbalanced coverage of topics when swarms of the like-minded band together.<br />
::::::: Consider this: an editor sees a geo-reference that does not give the country and they don't understand it; a) they keep going and don't learn, b) they go look and learn where, for example, [[Maralinga]] is, and may then learn about the shite that occurred there. If it was fully qualified, many will simply focus on the appended country name and move on. Methinks we've few actors or filmmakers from there; prolly a few films ''about'' there...<br />
::::::: Ever ask yourself why you're on this project? One of the things that drew me here and keeps me here is that I learn things everyday. Sure, a lot of it's crap, but I now know what [[SORAS]] is. I also learn things worth knowing. The wiki is founded with a level-playing field concept in mind, but we go too far enabling all the anybodys. We may assume good faith, but we all know that some are not acting in good faith, and some are outright malicious. Then there's the half that's of below average intelligence; most will have something useful to offer, but I really don't expect a lot from them. And too many are here because wiki model affords them a <del>[[Hyde Park Corner|platform]]</del><sup>maaf</sup>[[Speakers' Corner|platform]] they're not going to get in the real world.<br />
::::::: John's really from out back of Bourke and spent lots of time in Melbourne.<br />
::::::: [[Jennifer Aniston]] is a mess; I do need other examples as the others are all muddied-up, now. I especially loved the complete list of ''awards and nominations'' on the page along with the presumably ''[[List of awards and nominations received by Jennifer Aniston|more complete one]]'' on its own page; note that it has a ''different'' riot of colour going on. Presumably the work of the other half.<br />
::::::: I'll ping HJ tomorrow and will get back to MRG's RfC, too. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 04:15, 22 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::: Interesting points and something for me to think about. I fit into the "most editors" who don't take a site-wide approach, at least in editing. I look at a lot of stuff and I soak up a lot of information but I edit mainly in my areas of interest. I knew about [[Maralinga]] and now I also know about [[SORAS]], and if I filter out about 5 years worth of crap, I think I've learnt quite a bit here. The other side of what keeps me here is the belief that occasionally I may contribute something that someone else can appreciate. I agree with your comments about editors and motivations, but it's not likely to change. Just have to take the good where it exists.<br />
<br />
:::::::: If I find any other glaring examples, I'll keep note of them rather than fix them. To be honest, I stared at the [[Jennifer Aniston]] page for a few minutes before I decided that I wasn't up to the task. I was also rather intrigued by the complete list of "awards and nominations" and it's not quite identical twin sister. I don't like the format of that table even aside from the splash of colour, and it was that more than anything else that made me step cautiously away from the article. For something completely different, I noticed that "Their divorce was seen, and is still noted to be, the most shocking celebrity divorce in history." I'm not sure how something like that is measured and whether they're talking about recorded history or since the dawn of time, but my big question is why there isn't an award for "most shocking celebrity divorce ''in history''" so that it can be included in the table? Not as a nomination either, but a very clear "won". Do we really live in a world where large numbers of people are "shocked" by the failure of Jennifer Aniston's marriage? Maybe we do. What a thought. [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 07:58, 22 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::: Liked teh edit summary, although I don't think she's a particularly good actress; just popular. And I've a lot of relevant experience making such calls.<br />
::::::::: Sure, we take what good anyone offers; we also discard the ungood, both edits and editors. I saw a lame comment recently to the effect that some seek to remove the good faith contributions of others, which I view as a bad faith stance. We quite appropriately remove good faith efforts all the time as a well-intentioned edit may still be a bad edit. Making such determinations is a core task that the editors with seriouz clue undertake.<br />
::::::::: I can fix that duplicate page easily; redirect it. I looked at the history and it's light; interesting, too, to review what the main IP's gotten up to on other stuff. I could not care less about about her divorce. A huge part of the problem with wp's coverage of actors is all the fans seeking some sort of vicarious participation in the personal lives of celebrities. Beyond the lists of works, the sections on who they fuck are the primary focus of most of these bios. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 20:13, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Beelzebub ==<br />
<br />
Hi, Jack, you are quite the interesting individual, and tech savvy. I'm very technologically challenged (not to be confused with being stupid) and cannot figure out how WP email works. Well, I could probably make it work if I could find it! I can get [https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l this far]. Would you care to instruct me? (Unhidden agenda—I'd enjoy discussing LotF with you.) Regards, —[[User:Yopienso|Yopienso]] ([[User talk:Yopienso|talk]]) 22:50, 19 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: I don't subscribe to such lists; I've spent too long living with email as a firehose and have little interest in reading most of what I expect would be in there. Try filling out the form. Ya, I'm familiar with [[LotF]] and I saw that you said you knew it. Teh article could use some work. [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 23:21, 19 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I'd hoped to be able to email you about some tie-in to MMORPG and a recent survey. Oh, well. —[[User:Yopienso|Yopienso]] ([[User talk:Yopienso|talk]]) 01:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Oh. You're looking for [[Special:EmailUser/Jack Merridew|this]], although I see little reason to engage in off-wiki dialogue with you about this. [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 20:18, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: Ah, it's not an in-house email service, but just using our regular email. Think I'll pass. But thank you very much.<br />
<br />
:::: You're the puzzle—a serious contributor who mocks the WP system and culture. Anyway, what I wanted to discuss was that if I understand you—a precarious assumption—you see WP as a game with the object of gaining power while pretending to disdain it. The contest includes deft matching of wits combined with loutish bullying. But you've chosen to float like a butterfly and sting like a bee…and still market saleable honey instead of knocking opponents out cold, unless they're slow-witted and boring. Yes? (I'd hate to see you master of Zaroff's hounds.)<br />
<br />
:::: Although not designed as such, WP is, among other things, a social experiment, whether Jimbo accepts that fact or not. I've long thought it was similar to the boys on that island—a microcosm where human nature takes its inevitable course as the pecking order is established and justice lurches blindly. Does altruism exist? or does the altruist smugly reap his righteous reward of knowing he behaved altruistically?<br />
<br />
:::: My motive in honestly trying to improve Wikipedia is to learn more from grappling more closely with issues than I would if I merely read about them. I also enjoy the mental challenges and the iron-sharpening-iron pleasure of working with other editors. (Yeah, and occasional unseating one in fair jousting.)<br />
<br />
:::: Thanks for your wit, time, and space. If you'd rather not have me occupying them, please advise.<br />
<br />
:::: Now look what you've helped me figure out, though I've not a notion of how to get it combined with the time stamp or the four tildes.<br />
<br />
:::: <span style="font-family:'arial bold',serif;border:1px Solid Blue;">[[User:Yopienso|<span style="color:#002BFE;background:#FFFF11;">Yo</span>]] [[User talk:Yopienso|<span style="background:#002BFE;color:#FFFF11;">pienso</span>]]</span> —[[User:Yopienso|Yopienso]] ([[User talk:Yopienso|talk]]) 07:27, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
If you want that as your sig, paste:<br />
; <tt><nowiki><span style="font-family:'arial bold',serif;border:1px Solid Blue;">[[User:Yopienso|<span style="color:#002BFE;background:#FFFF11;">Yo</span>]] [[User talk:Yopienso|<span style="background:#002BFE;color:#FFFF11;">pienso</span>]]</span></nowiki></tt><br />
<br />
into the sig field in your prefs and check the box under it.<br />
<br />
I'm really unsure just what to make of most of the rest of your post, though. Your assumptions are just that; ''assumptions'' that seem, oddly, to be assumptions of bad faith and personal attacks that also seem to be made in good faith. You seem fascinated by my history and choice of user name and my role in these projects, and motivated by a desire for some sort of philosophical discussion of it. I've gotten this before, from a few trolls. Are you one? Mebbe [[User:samneric]]? You've been here a long time yet seem to have only made a fistful of edits. I usually make quite a few more edits a month than you've made in over 4 years. [[User:Erik9]] was fascinated by the [[User:Jack Merridew/Blood and Roses|Blood and Roses]] quote and you've referenced [[MMORPG]], which it links to. When I first [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ADavenbelle&diff=24961088&oldid=24871310 posted] that quote, in 2005, [[Blood and Roses]] was a redlink, which seemed fitting, given the colour of blood and the colour of most roses, but now there's a film there (about vampires). I later changed to link to MMORPG as a commentary on what I see others doing on this project. This, I think, is the key thing you're seeking to understand about me. The whole Blood and Roses piece is a way of making a commentary on inappropriate approaches I see unimpressive people taking to this project. My mother once told me that I often speak in what she called an ''obscure voice.'' You're doing this, too. It amounts to seeing if people are paying attention and if they are able to suss-out an implication. A method of gauging people, if you will. The same is the case with my choice of [[Jack Merridew]] as a user name. It does not really mean that I see myself as Jack, rather that ''I see Jack in others''. Others have seen this project as a cyberspace version of [[Lord of the Flies]]; see [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121815517776622597.html?mod=psp Wikipedians Leave Cyberspace, Meet in Egypt] by [[James Gleick]], although I said it first ); Gleick's a sharp guy; I've read a few of his books. You might also care to read [[Cyberchiefs: Autonomy and Authority in Online Tribes]], which someone really should start an article on (glances at bookshelf and wonders where that first edition has gotten to…). And if you like [[The Beast]] theme, read [[Grendel (novel)|Grendel]], too.<br />
<br />
Thank for the allusion to [[s:The Most Dangerous Game|Rainsford]]. I've not read that in a very long time, but I will when I have a moment. Before you follow that link, you should unify your account by visiting your prefs or going directly to [[Special:MergeAccount]]. I'm an admin on [[s:]] and you might like it there. It's not a toxic project; that's only a disturbing aspect of ''this'' place. If I ever ask for a rename, I might use a name derived for that story. You should look at some of the names I used for my socking. A few of the names were just throw-aways, but most of the names were specifically chosen for reasons I'll not offer at the moment ;) a way of gauging you, as it were.<br />
<br />
Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 00:08, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi, Jack, sorry to take so long to get back to you. <br />
:By way of review, we first met [[Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/The_Gore_Effect|here]], after the 4th convenience break, and then again [[User_talk:Diannaa#Jack_Merridew|here]].<br /><br />
<br />
:Me, a troll?? :D Definitely not. This time I'm trying to use my serious voice, not the obscure one, so you don't have to guess at my meanings, though you're good at it; also trying to be kind and to adequately express my appreciation for your kindness in the help you so freely offer me and other editors. But I also need to frankly point out that imo your user and talk pages are "trollish" (if I understand the word--had to look up ''troll'') in that they seem to be deliberately provocative. Flaunting your former status (and yes, it's <u>former</u>), displaying rude language and unpleasant images, and appearing to blatantly flout WP rules in an attempt to "gauge" people does invite queries, doesn't it? [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jack_Merridew&action=edit&section=23 This page] you provided a link to helped explain the mystery, but I wouldn't have found it on my own.<br /><br />
<br />
:I don't understand this: "...assumptions of bad faith and personal attacks that also seem to be made in good faith." I initially agf with you, but when I looked at your user page, [[Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/The_Gore_Effect|remarked]] "it looks like I either took a sock puppet's bait or we have one way-too-cute editor here." But since you explained it all on Diannaa's [[User_talk:Diannaa#Jack_Merridew|talk page]] I've agf.<br /><br />
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:Personal attacks? No, I had no intention of attacking or offending. A few lines above may seem like attacks, but please agf and realize I'm merely putting my perceptions of your WP persona, which may differ from the real you, into words.<br /><br />
<br />
:The reason I have fewer edits than you is that you make more edits than I do! I'm not prolific, consulting WP more than editing it. Originally, I was curious about the content this new project, and then curious about how it worked. I was an IP user for quite a while, and even created an article on the [[Caqueta River]] just to show students how unacceptable WP was as a source since even I could whip out an article for it. (It's since been merged into the [[Japura River]].) Unfortunately, they were impressed I had an article online and the lesson was lost. I do a great deal of online learning, not only at WP by any means. Then, I enjoy a trivia site that often posts refs to WP. (The more academic ones there used to balk at using WP.) I like to correct simple errors I run across, and only last summer when I was laid up with a broken toe did I begin to learn about the WP culture, going to mediation to learn the ropes. It was an illuminating but disappointing revelation, as I had come to believe WP was more serious and reliable. I'm presently poking around [[Citizendium]], as their approach appeals more to me. They are still in the beginning stages, though, and it's only reasonable to expect they will devolve into another island full of warring boys unless Sanger is a strong and ruthless dictator.<br /><br />
<br />
:All to say, I'm not a "player" here, though I've enjoyed dabbling. Maybe you could tell me about the "Cabal." I know there's a page explaining it doesn't exist, or if it does, it's only in my mind. Sure seems to exist! Articles do seem to have owners, or at least fierce watchdogs. Is the "Cabal Approved" sign intended to be entirely tongue-in-cheek? As in, anyone who displays it is asserting it's a figment of the imaginations of the whiners and ne'er-do-wells?<br /><br />
<br />
:Both here and at the trivia site I gravitate toward the brighter sparks of intelligence; your dazzling expertise as a programming wizard, along with your intriguing ''obscure voice'' and reformed rake posture attract me. (Although the "reformed" bit wasn't readily apparent.)<br /><br />
<br />
:Thanks for the tips on the sig and on merging accounts if I go to Wikiquotes, a new puzzle. I have an account at the Spanish language WP but rarely use it. I'm guessing all those would be one?<br /><br />
<br />
:I hope I've explained myself to your satisfaction. The only time I was intentionally rude on WP was in this one passage in a [[Talk:Richard_Sternberg#liar.3F|long discussion]] with an irate and unreasonable editor. (It's been collapsed.) <br />
::''That kind of "butchering" I call dissecting and mounting. So, bottom line, you are calling Sternberg a liar, right? Just like Northfox said, "An avid editor repeatedly called Sternberg a liar in a recent discussion section." The description is now both "recent" and "repeated" in every sense of the words. You could have saved yourself the trouble of denying it, and me all that time in the lab dissecting.''<br /><br />
:I did think he deserved it.<br /><br />
<br />
I spied ''Oryx and Crake'' at the library the other day and will check it out when I return what I'm presently reading, a collection of Ibsen's plays. I've never actually read ''The Handmaid's Tale'' but have a notion of the plot and theme, a much darker take on gender roles than Ibsen's "A Doll's House." Best, --[[User:Yopienso|Yopienso]] ([[User talk:Yopienso|talk]]) 07:37, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== [[User:Jorge Stolfi/Templates that I sorely miss]] ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I see that you have edited the markup in the above page.<br />
<br />
I do not mind your edits, but I am afraid you wasted your time. Perhaps you haven't realized that it is not a Wikipedia article, but merely a parody of editorial templates, that I wrote in the (vain?) hope of persuading our compulsive article taggers and template creators to amend their ways. That is why I carefully avoided to use templates in that page, and made a point of using only the most basic markup. All the best, --[[User:Jorge Stolfi|Jorge Stolfi]] ([[User talk:Jorge Stolfi|talk]]) 04:13, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Hi, Jorge. Someone pointed me at those mebbe a month ago and I found them quite funny. And being there, I twiddled a few bits; it's a wiki. I even pasted one of them somewhere. Anyway, I'm glad you're not fussed over my edits. Pleased to meet you, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 06:43, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: The thing is, it's actually much ''easier'' to create this sort of parody using the {{tl|ambox}} template to do the hard work. Then your parodies are guaranteed to be consistent and up to date. ;) [[user:thumperward|Chris Cunningham (not at work)]] - [[user talk:thumperward|talk]] 12:22, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Canvassing ==<br />
<br />
Your recent canvassing, re: [[Jack Lord#Filmography]], was '''not''' inappropriate. For some reason, I felt the need existed to tell you that. <small><span>[[User:Chickenmonkey|<span style="background-color:#FF8833; color:black;">&nbsp;'''Chicken'''</span>]] [[User talk:Chickenmonkey|<span style="background-color:black; color:#FF8833;">'''monkey'''&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 00:30, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Thanks. I knew that, but it's good to hear; it wasn't inappropriate and it wasn't canvassing, either. Don't believe everything you read on teh interwebs, the barriers to entry are really low. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 16:55, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Hi, Jack! What's all this, then? [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Houston_McCoy&diff=prev&oldid=370072146|""Jimbo wants it deleted" is no argument for keeping it, and a bit insulting to those who happen to agree with me, most of whom I haven't spoken to about this entry at all."] ''This'' is "Jimbo just commented on her, characterizing her comments as 'insulting'"? Really? You don't want to let go here, do you? You're being a bit "daft" here, methinks. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jack_Merridew&diff=367568694&oldid=367566881 "White"] my comment out again if you will&nbsp;– but you really should "check" yourself. This isn't a freaking "pig hunt", you know. I'm getting a bit irritated with all this, now. You and Chowbok need to get off her case for good: he's gotten the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Crohnie&diff=367159059&oldid=367157872 message] (not). [[WP:MEAT]]? It takes two to tango. Move along, now... [[User:Doc9871|Doc9871]] ([[User talk:Doc9871|talk]]) 12:47, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I don't understand. Jimbo did make a critical comment that can only have been in response to Wildhartlivie's comment because he paraphrased her, and it was Jimbo who used the word "insulting". Did it need brought up and mentioned again at [[User:Fences and windows]]? I don't think so, and I wish it had been left out, but it's not inaccurate in my opinion. Please consider this: a lot of sniping and bad feeling have been swirling around for a long time. Try to forget for one minute who is at fault in each aspect of each disagreement and look at the broader picture. ''Everyone'' needs to tone down their language and start talking to each other like human beings who deserve basic courtesy. ''Everyone'' should think about their behaviour and the tone of their comments and wonder how they would feel if they were on the receiving end of them. ''Everyone'' should understand that even if they don't intend for their actions or words to offend or hurt somebody, that may still be the result, and that the result is their responsibility. ''Everyone'' should consider whether they are helping to move towards a resolution, or whether they are part of the problem that keeps this festering. I include myself in this. It's disappointing that this is how a bunch of people behave each time they get together, and it's disappointing to consider how much we fail to achieve in terms of quality editing because of the time and energy that gets diverted to these side discussions. So, Jack to answer your question, I am willing to act as a mediator subject to Wildhartlivie's agreement. I have no idea how effective I may be, and I may end up being totally useless. You must understand that someone who is familiar with a situation and has an opinion about it, is not always impartial as a mediator. If we proceed in this direction, I will try to be, and that's all I can promise. If you consider that reasonable, please let me know. In the meantime, let's wait until Wildhartlivie has given her opinion, before this is discussed any deeper. [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 13:57, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: I've said before that I like Jack, and I still do. I don't like certain things he does&nbsp;– same goes for me and any other editor (including WHL). There seems to be a real "vendetta" here that won't go away: I'm pointing no fingers. The situation needs to change&nbsp;– that is certain. Rossrs, you've got your work cut out for you... [[User:Doc9871|Doc9871]] ([[User talk:Doc9871|talk]]) 14:08, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: The situation does need to change, no question but I do not have my work cut out for me. That implies that it's all upon me, and it's not. As I said above...''everyone''. Not just Rossrs. Cheers Doc. [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 14:39, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: You're the mediator&nbsp;– I'm the "bad cop". It will all pan out in the end... [[User:Doc9871|Doc9871]] ([[User talk:Doc9871|talk]]) 14:56, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::: Ah... well... I see. Good cop/bad cop. Now I get it. You should have told me this ''before''. [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 15:01, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::: True. ''You're'' the good cop. Jack knows what I am. I'm itching for the reply... [[User:Doc9871|Doc9871]] ([[User talk:Doc9871|talk]]) 15:13, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Good points, although some will seek to infer insult absent that intent and I'll not take responsibility for that. ''I'm'' disappointed at how little progress has be made at cleaning up all the poor coding in the articles [[WP:ACTOR]] is supposed to be improving. For me, that's where this began: <code>*bad* code</code>. You see some of this and I appreciate that you're taking aboard some of what I'm advocating. You commented at F&W's page about having to repeatedly revisiting pages as "prevailing attitudes change"—this is key to why I'm seeking to remove most hard-coded styling from articles. Ever plow snow? Certainly not in Brisbane. You have to angle the blade to dump the accumulated load or you'll quickly be unable to make forward progress. Hard-coded markup is like that; it cements things in place and is a huge maintenance impediment, although it's not the ''only'' impediment. It is short-sighted when done simply without understanding the long-term aspects and is disruptive when done deliberately.<br />
::: I see you've pinged WHL about this but don't see any direct reply; her last @ F&W did seem to dismiss the idea. I'm still game; I see your familiarity with all of this as more useful to resolution than the bits we disagree on might inhibit resolution. You've said you'll try and I consider you reasonable. Either way, I find our dialogue useful and we should continue it. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 17:27, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: Well, yes, I agree if someone takes offence at something unreasonably that's not your responsibility, but everyone's definition of "reasonably" is slightly different and needs to be considered, is what I was getting at. Wildhartlivie has not yet replied. I've never ploughed snow anywhere but I get your point. Snow in Brisbane .... that would be something to see. [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 23:38, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: I'll wait and see if she comments about this anywhere I'll notice. I do get your point re "reasonable" and I think we both see what is and is not reasonable, as will others. I'm focused on the discussions at [[User talk:Moonriddengirl/RfC]] for the moment. Absent a [[nuclear winter]], you're more likely to see a 10 metre rise in sea level in Brisbane than snowfall. It a metaphor I used quite some time ago in the context of software development and maintaining a grip on a huge code base. Large software packages consist of million of lines of code and [[complexity management|management of complexity]] becomes a major concern because it takes huge amounts of time to effect changes when things are not structured wisely. I take it you're not someone with a software background; to those with a serious such background this is really old news. Also; consider the nature of teh wiki: it's a database of revisions of pages; millions of pages and billions of revisions. Software people have been using such systems for decades. We call them [[revision control]] systems. In that sense, I've been editing articles with revision histories for a few decades more that the wiki's been around, except that the articles were in assorted programming languages. This is what the folks who developed MediaWiki used as a model.<br />
::::: Are you doing the endash fixes by hand? There are scripts about to do this shite in one click. Start with [[WP:AUTOED]]. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 00:09, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::: I was thinking tsunami should be my greatest risk, but I hadn't considered a nuclear winter. You're right, I do not have a software background, and I think it's safe to say I don't have a software future either. I don't have a legal background either, and I sometimes feel that I need some kind of degree to wade through the levels of policies and guidelines. You said earlier about learning every day, and that's another type of learning for me. I'll have a look at [[WP:AUTOED]]. I have been doing them by hand from an old list. It's tedious shite but I find that by looking at each article manually I spot a lot of other stuff – spelling, grammar, overlinking, shocking divorces etc, and I try to fix everything I notice in one visit. [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 09:51, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::: I take it back. I tried the script for correcting dashes, and I like it. I can still check manually for any other craziness, but I like this. Thank you for letting me know about it. [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 14:22, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::: Glad the dashes part works for you; there are more such tools you'll like. I should go freshen the ones I'm using. I'll point you at more useful bits, too. I'm thinking the list you mention is how you select things; there are tools and cats to help with that, too. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 14:44, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{{unindent}} Hi, Jack. I'm not talking about [[Jack Lord#Filmography]], but about [[User talk:DGG#Colour is inappropriate to convey information|this]]. I think it's probably best that you not notify others of the existence of the RfC. There were canvassing concerns with the last RfC, and I plan to make sure this one (once we launch it) is properly advertised in all the right locations. Even if you only notify neutral parties, your motives are likely to be suspect...and the opinion of those you notify may well be tainted by a perception that you've cherry-picked them. (Too, in this particular case, your header — "Colour is inappropriate to convey information" — may well seem non-neutral.) I think it's best to let the community derived processes of central announcement work here. I will publicize this at the relevant policy pages, guideline pages, at [[WP:CENTRAL]] and [[WP:VPP]]. Promise. Once it's ready, I'll make sure that word gets out. --[[User:Moonriddengirl|Moonriddengirl]] <sup>[[User talk:Moonriddengirl|(talk)]]</sup> 13:08, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: I'll defer to your view on this, and see you're getting ready to launch rather sooner than I was expecting; I've added a further request re the background and my core concern. And, of course, once it's up, I'll post a statement. Any claim of canvasing here is pretty off, methinks, as DGG has been a strong critic of me, and I took quite a risk notifying him. That he didn't bring prior issues to this reflects very well on him. As you say, it's also about perceptions. I had not considered the section header's neutrality; it was just a paste and my intent was that he find the specific spot on the page where I discussed his prior comment. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 14:44, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Thanks. I realize that your section header was link specific. :) I think getting this up and running ASAP should be a priority. As we know, RfCs can run a bit long, and resolving this issue would be a big help, I think, with the conflict between you and Wildhartlivie. It may not resolve everything, but it may simplify that resolution if we get this out of the way. --[[User:Moonriddengirl|Moonriddengirl]] <sup>[[User talk:Moonriddengirl|(talk)]]</sup> 15:07, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: I think we're good. See my latest comments on the subpage. I was only suggesting that *today* might be too soon, as I'm busy and WHL has not commented on the last bits. Until tomorrow would seem sufficient pause. Nominally this sort of thing should run on the order of 30 days, so I think we're talking 'July'. And I do hope it will sort the overall dispute, as there are a lot of things that need fixing. *My* POV is that my intent to clean-up this mess has been thwarted for four months and that the thwarting has been occurring since last June. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 15:54, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mediation and Claudette Colbert ==<br />
Hi, I think the excessive talk on [[User:Fences and windows|Fences and Windows]]'s page may shortly test his patience. In regards to the suggestion to act as informal mediator, well I'm still willing. Perhaps the best venue would be a neutral place. I was thinking I could set up a sandbox page in my talk space and that could be a place you and WHL could talk without others necessarily having input. Although Crohnie has offered to help and I told her that as far as I'm concerned she's welcome. It occurs to me now that I should have checked with you and WHL first. I don't actually know what each of you expects in this process and what points specifically you want to deal with. I guess that would be the first thing to establish, and then take it from there. I haven't heard from Wildhartlivie so I don't know how she feels about it right now. I suspect she's feeling wounded by the discussion about Claudette Colbert etc. Her role in that was very minor you know. I made a reversion and started the talk page discussion, but it still ended up being all about her. I understand there are editors who have issues with her, but talking about just the Colbert situation, that escalated from a very minor and routine edit that she made. She did nothing wrong in that edit. You said you could understand me feeling stung. That's probably as good a word as any. Only a few days ago, Chowbok did the same thing at [[Talk:Dawn Wells]] by immediately introducing his personal grievance in a discussion that had, until he entered it, been all about the article content. It was also me that was contributing to that discussion, and WHL had not even commented. So twice in less than a week is twice too many. I showed him the courtesy of explaining myself at the Colbert talk page and I'm willing to defend my editorial choices, but how am I to defend myself against someone who isn't interested in discussing the topic but reserves the right to accuse me of being part of a cabal?<br />
<br />
As for Claudette. Yes her alleged sexuality has been discussed before and has been archived. In 2007 several editors (one really, I think it was a bunch of socks) took exception to anything in the article that portrayed her as anything less than a saint, and even changed the text to refer to her as "Mrs Pressman" rather than "Colbert". When it was removed (perhaps by me, I can't remember) he launched into a tirade saying we were trying to suggest she was bisexual by avoiding the use of her married name. He could barely speak English and turned out to be in Japan, and told me I couldn't possibly understand Colbert because I'm Australian. Ended up leaving bizarre comments on my talk page such as [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rossrs&diff=prev&oldid=105269686] & [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rossrs&diff=prev&oldid=105610362] &[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rossrs&diff=prev&oldid=109067718] & [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rossrs&diff=prev&oldid=105677217] He called me a "Vivien Leigh fun" twice, but I think he meant "fan". Although that doesn't make any more sense than "fun". Back then I was concerned about keeping gossipy sex-life details out of articles as I consider them irrelevant to the person's notability, but I've accepted that's a lost cause, and now I only insist on reliable sourcing. This anon or one of its socks still comes along from time to time, and considering I've been watching it for all of that time to keep the crap out, and that dealing with that anon was pretty much a nightmare, Chowbok's cabal comment is so far out of line it's not even funny. The problem is that everyone in this series of disagreements is a good editor at heart. Chowbok's been around for a long time, and a lot of his edits are constructive and useful, but he can't seem to help himself when it comes to Wildhartlivie or anyone he thinks is in league with her. If everyone just calmed down the actual content issues are not huge. It seems to me that everyone just wants to be right and with all the past history it only takes a small thing and someone reacts, whether it's you, me, Chowbok, WHL or any of the others who take part. There's always a reaction and before we know it, it's escalated again.<br />
<br />
I opted in to X!s Edit Counter, out of curiosity. It's interesting to see a breakdown of edits by type and by month, but I don't see a lot of value in it listing the most frequently edited page from the various page categories. In terms of the visibility you mentioned, I don't see how showing the top few articles, is helpful. Am I missing something? [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 15:31, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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You're the mediator; start this up. It's not about Colbert. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 10:23, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
: Terse due to other things; you know the issues; start a framework of some sort and I'll work with you on teh details. I saw Wells; assume I miss little ;) The stuff re transparency is not for you; it's about being open and honest with the community. That counter is now opt-in per de:privacy laws, which are robust and ethical (toolserver is in Deuchland). Good faith editors accept transparency in teh wiki-context. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 11:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:: I'm not entirely sure I want to mediate after the comments that appeared on my talk page today, but that may be because I'm tired and angry. Tomorrow I may be back to myself. I noticed you mentioned my name in an edit summary about the Jack Lord filmography, but I don't quite understand. Again, that may be because I'm exhausted, but if I'm missing something obvious, could you please clue me in. thanks [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 14:49, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: Checks: [your early morning]. Please don't bail on this, now. I knew the name but not the userbox. That edit summary indicated that I see the whole approach she's taking there (brute force assertion of her will, while the whole mess is disputed and the new RfC imminent) as something we could address via mediation. If you don't agree to mediate, I'll go the next DR step. You're her friend and a mediator is typically a neutral party (none have appeared, but I could ask). I'm willing to accept you because you're a reasonable person and you know much of the back story, which will help at lot. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 21:04, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== My eyes ... ==<br />
<br />
How [[Template:Strictly_Come_Dancing_professional_dancers|this]] is considered appropriate astounds me. The entire [[WP:SYNTH]] in articles in this series is also disturbing, with average call out scores, ... [[User:Plastikspork|Plastikspork]] ([[User talk:Plastikspork|talk]]) 19:00, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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: ''The goggles... they do *nothing* ;) [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 10:23, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I gets [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Skal_vi_danse%3F&oldid=371124831 much worse]. [[User:Plastikspork|Plastikspork]] [[User talk:Plastikspork|<sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ</sub><sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)</sup>]] 05:41, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::: Fucking-worthless goggles ;) You do see the thread immediately below , right? Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 05:46, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: Some people [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=next&oldid=372294105 still don't get it], and now he [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=historysubmit&diff=372451442&oldid=372427664 wants to be an admin]. [[User:Plastikspork|Plastikspork]] [[User talk:Plastikspork|<sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ</sub><sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)</sup>]] 19:58, 8 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Launched ==<br />
The RfC we've been discussing on color and consensus is launched and located at [[Wikipedia talk:Consensus/RfC]]. I am in the process of publicizing. --[[User:Moonriddengirl|Moonriddengirl]] <sup>[[User talk:Moonriddengirl|(talk)]]</sup> 15:35, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== My signature ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for informing me of the extra span-element in my signature (I don't like using the abbreviation "sig" because... I don't know why, but it just doesn't sound, or look, right to me). I'm very much a novice at any sort of code, though, I do like to think I'm capable of intuitive use (perhaps that's an unwarranted thought, ''but a thought nonetheless'' ;)) I know you're just ribbing me about the colors, but, for clarity sake, the suggested contrast ratio is at least 5:1 and I'm currently at 8.8:1. The one problem I thought may arise is size, but I haven't had any concerns brought up yet. Is there another concern you have with my signature? (or did you really have any to begin with?) <span style="font-size:smaller;border:1px solid Black;">[[User:Chickenmonkey|<b style="background:#F83;color:Black;">&nbsp;Chicken</b>]][[User talk:Chickenmonkey|<b style="background-color:black; color:#FF8833;">monkey&nbsp;</b>]]</span> 00:51, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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: I don't like colourful or boxy signatures, but they're allowed. For now ;) And your signature is valid code, although that span, that I see you've removed, was just clutter that gunks up the database and amounts to more goop people have to read around in the edit box. (pro-tip: go to preferences and hit the editing tab; change ''Editbox dimensions: Rows'' to something more than the default (25, I think), say 50; as large as will fit on your screen. Also check: ''Widen the edit box to fill the entire screen''.) Beyond not liking flashy signatures, I've seen countless signature implementations that ''are'' invalid and some screw-up subsequent posts. They are a vector for poor code getting into the system. You signature is using the html small-element and the effects of that tag vary by browser. There are a lot of signatures (what a pain to type that whole long word so many times;) that use <code><nowiki><big> or <font></nowiki></code> to increase the size and that's against policy, as it's attention-seeking. Sometimes, I give it to them. My concerns here are real, but my comments to you are just in fun. You should consider the impression you make on others with it; you will be taken less seriously by some based solely on your signature; all the more if they disagree with something you're saying. It's kind of like ignoring people emailing from AOL accounts.<br />
<br />
: I've fiddled with your above sig<sup>oops</sup> to tighten things up; you should adopt this. I added a bit of border, too. As I said, I breathe this stuff. It took about a minute. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Jack_Merridew&action=edit here] for more of the sort of code I stick into the wiki. Scroll down slowly and revisit the page; it's dynamic. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 01:27, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Interesting, I'll look into the "preferences -> editing" suggestions. I'm not all that concerned with the impression my sig<sup>once</sup> makes on others. If someone chooses to take me less seriously due to that, well, I'm not too sure they were prepared to take me very seriously in the first place. Although, I haven't seen an email from an AOL account in about seven parsecs. I've implemented your suggestions for my signature, but I've removed the border. Was there a reason for the border? <span style="font-size:smaller;">[[User:Chickenmonkey|<b style="background:#F83;color:Black;">&nbsp;Chicken</b>]][[User talk:Chickenmonkey|<b style="background-color:black; color:#F83;">monkey&nbsp;</b>]]</span> 02:50, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::: The border was just a suggestion. I was lazy and didn't do an orange one around 'monkey'. It prolly would not have gotten under the 255-char limit, anyway. If someone doesn't take you seriously per your signature while you're talking sense, they're likely hopeless. Of more concern are those with ludicrous signature who are also talking nonsense. Those who listen to sensible talk posted over whatever signature rulz teh wiki. That's the message some are missing; I callz them [[littlun]]s. Your take on signatures may serve you well to sort'em from teh [[bigun]]s. I'll marinate on that. Oh, I didn't show up on your talk page today because it was 'occupied' and it would have defeated the intent of leaving the other stall. I knew this, too, but forgot while composing that reply. The editing→prefs suggestion is mostly useful on higher resolution displays. For most seriouz editing, I use an external editor. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 03:21, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::Well, everyone knowz uh rulz teh wiki. It might as well be [[Ten Commandments|written in Basic]]. <span style="font-size:smaller;">[[User:Chickenmonkey|<b style="background:#F83;color:Black;">&nbsp;Chicken</b>]][[User talk:Chickenmonkey|<b style="background-color:black; color:#F83;">monkey&nbsp;</b>]]</span> 07:17, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::: ''Terima kasih'' ;) 2 badz teh [[Little Mikey|luttun]] donz getz it. [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 07:24, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Thanks ==<br />
<div style="border-width: 1px 2px 2px 1px; border-style: solid; border-color: #976684; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); -moz-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); -webkit-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); border-radius: 1em; -moz-border-radius: 1em; -webkit-border-radius: 1em; width: 16em; margin: 0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.5em 0.75em; background-color: #f9f9f9; background: -moz-radial-gradient(bottom right 90deg, farthest-side, #fff4fa, #f9f9f9); font-family: Perpetua, Palatino, Bookman, 'New Century Schoolbook', 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; font-size: 110%; text-align: center; clear: right; float: right;"><br />
<p><br />
<em style="font-size: larger; font-weight: bold;line-height: 2em;">Support Jack</em><br />defending teh wiki since 2004 <span style="text-decoration: blink;">;)</span><br />
<p><br />
</div><br />
Thanks for directing me to [[WP:DENY]]. I appreciate any and all input. By the way, have you ever run for adminship? <span style="font-family:'arial bold',serif;border:1px solid Black;">[[User:N419BH|<span style= "color:Black;background:#FFD700;">N419</span>]][[User talk:N419BH|<span style="background:Black;color:#FFD700;">BH</span>]]</span> 02:31, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: I'm an admin on another project, but I've never run for adminship here on teh toxic wiki. I've a [[User:Jack Merridew/History|history]], too. I've only been here for five and a half years. Your sig needs help; I'll get back to you on that. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 02:36, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Yeah, I've been watching your talk page since you showed up at [[2010 Polish Air Force TU-154 crash]]. I read all about the history. I agree, there's a good bit of toxicity, but you just might make it. Hey, you made it back from an indef... And any help on the signature would be appreciated. There's got to be a better way to do the same 6 letter signature with 1/2 the code. <span style="font-family:'arial bold',serif;border:1px solid Black;">[[User:N419BH|<span style= "color:Black;background:#FFD700;">N419</span>]][[User talk:N419BH|<span style="background:Black;color:#FFD700;">BH</span>]]</span> 02:39, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::: See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jack_Merridew&curid=10600591&diff=371310727&oldid=371310667 this]; I refactored the 02:39 sig. It's a bit shorter and much better code. You should take it. Should be much more consistent across platforms. And it doesn't use the deprecated font-element from teh 90s.<br />
::: There's talk, but I have sorted a lot of problems, as necessary, and some are forever in battleground-mode. Sincerely, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 03:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::Wow, that's nifty. The only things I've ever coded were that and a radical-simplifying program on my [[TI-83]]. And for the record, I'd support you in a RfA. <span style="font-family:'arial bold',serif;border:1px solid Black;">[[User:N419BH|<span style= "color:Black;background:#FFD700;">N419</span>]][[User talk:N419BH|<span style="background:Black;color:#FFD700;">BH</span>]]</span> 03:07, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::: Much appreciated. I think the first thing I ever programmed was an HP calculator. [[Reverse Polish notation]], rulz, too. Then I upgraded and sold the old one to an impressed physics teacher. You should paste:<br />
; <tt><nowiki><span style="font-family:'arial bold',serif;border:1px solid Black;">[[User:N419BH|<span style= "color:Black;background:#FFD700;">N419</span>]][[User talk:N419BH|<span style="background:Black;color:#FFD700;">BH</span>]]</span></nowiki><tt><br />
::::: Into your prefs.<br />
::::: <span style="white-space: nowrap; background-color: #e8dae7; background: -moz-radial-gradient(bottom right 90deg, farthest-side, #976684, #e8dae7); border: 1px solid #976684; border-radius: 0.5em; -moz-border-radius: 0.5em; -webkit-border-radius: 0.5em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); -moz-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); -webkit-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); display: inline-block; margin: 0.5em 0; padding: 0.5em 0.8em 0.5em; font-variant: small-caps;" title="“Bollocks to the rules!”">—<span style="letter-spacing: 0.15em;">Sincerely, <span style="border-bottom: 1px solid Red;">''[[Street-legal vehicle|Street-Legal]]''</span> [[Wikipedia:Sock puppetry|<span style="text-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em rgba(0,0,0,0.5);">Sockpuppet</span>]] <span style="margin-right: 0.4em; padding: 3px 4px 2px; background-color: #fff4fa; border: 1px dotted Red; border-radius: 0.25em; -moz-border-radius: 0.25em; -webkit-border-radius: 0.25em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.25em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); -moz-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.25em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); -webkit-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.25em rgba(0,0,0,0.75);">[[User:Jack Merridew|<span style="text-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em rgba(0,0,0,0.5);">Jack Merridew</span>]]{{Click<br />
| image = Puppeter template.svg<br />
| size = 18px<br />
| link = User:Jack Merridew/History|this user is a sock puppet<br />
| title = this user is a sock puppet<br />
}}</span></span> <span style="text-transform: lowercase; font-size: smaller;">03:52, 2 July 2010 (UTC)</span></span><br />
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{{Done}} Thanks! <span style="font-family:'arial bold',serif;border:1px solid Black;">[[User:N419BH|<span style= "color:Black;background:#FFD700;">N419</span>]][[User talk:N419BH|<span style="background:Black;color:#FFD700;">BH</span>]]</span> 04:02, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Enjoy. I've not looked at the crash article or the reactions obsessiveness; last I recall I cut the flag-cruft. I'm fussing with the page on [[Reverse Polish notation|RPN]]. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 04:08, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Oh, you've missed a massive amount of drama. Deletion review on the international response article (overturned to no consensus), request for comment on the quotes table, almost no one commented, end result was determined to be delete (3-2...kinda), was fully protected because someone who didn't comment in the RfC didn't like that the massive table was deleted. Hasn't shown up in my watchlist in a couple days now. <span style="font-family:'arial bold',serif;border:1px solid Black;">[[User:N419BH|<span style= "color:Black;background:#FFD700;">N419</span>]][[User talk:N419BH|<span style="background:Black;color:#FFD700;">BH</span>]]</span> 04:18, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Ah, but I've had much moar [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Wildhartlivie&oldid=371142252 drama] than that would seem to amount to. You really don't want to get in it. Look up a few sections, though, and find the new RfC that I've had a lot to do with. I have to pull together a statement for it, but there are drafts at: [[User talk:Moonriddengirl/RfC#colour]]. I'll go visit Poland, and have a look. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 04:28, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: I formatted the remaining table as a single sentence ;) Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 04:50, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Email ==<br />
<br />
You're right. I don't remember disabling it but clearly I did. Oh well, it wasn't intentional, and I've enabled it now. Cheers. [[User:Rossrs|Rossrs]] ([[User talk:Rossrs|talk]]) 09:36, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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: Thanks, I'll ping ya; later, though, gotta go ;) Cheer, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 11:51, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Quick comment ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I just want to thank you for deleting the trolling on my talk page that I missed. Thank you, --[[User:Crohnie|<span style="color:Indigo">'''Crohnie'''</span><span style="color:deeppink">'''Gal'''</span>]][[User talk:Crohnie|<span style="color:deepskyblue"><sup>Talk</sup></span>]] 11:36, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: You're welcome. [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 11:42, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Could you collapse this for me? ==<br />
<br />
{{collapsetop|we're done here}}<br />
I hate to bother you for this but if you will, would you make my userboxes on my [[User:MikeAllen|page]] collapsible so it's not shown without clicking 'show'? I can't figure out what <code>class=</code> to use. I've been wanting to add more, but don't want it to flood the page, plus most people could care less to see them. Thanks. [[user:mikeAllen]] 01:54, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: {{done}}&nbsp;— [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 06:27, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Thanks for the collapse. I thought that was the same code I was using.. odd. Also what does this mean, "kick layout, too. you own me ten filmographies, fixed my way ;)" What have I done now? [[user:mikeAllen]] 07:07, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::: I re-ordered stuff to not waste vertical space. [[Quid pro quo]]; go clean-up some filmographies; there are tens of thousands that are fucked-up. Do that, and I'll fix your sig, too ;) Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 07:29, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::: I do when I find them. I've been using the template code you created (a la [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roseanne_Barr&diff=367713318&oldid=367712828 Roseanne]). What's wrong with my sig? I want it rounded not square. I don't care if it fucks with the IE users. They should upgrade to a modern browser. :P I think I tried to add the <code>webkit-border-radius</code> but it wouldn't allow all the code. It seems to be rounded in Google Chrome. So whatevah. [[user:mikeAllen]] 08:22, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Bzzt. You know I consider that template to be only an interim step and the colour unwarranted ;)<br />
: Anyway, you [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roseanne_Barr&action=historysubmit&diff=371514387&oldid=371451351 missed stuff] that's unrelated to that issue. Please review that stuff and attempt to follow it as guidance on future edits. This stuff is not Earth shaking, but it's all proper.<br />
: Your sig is obviously garish and attention-seeking; draw people's eyes to your post, rather than normal those over sigs. This is subtly manipulative because people's minds are hard-coded to be attracted to the unusual (as it might be a threat). At the technical level, you're using the font-element, which is deprecated. When MediaWiki shifts to [[HTML5]], font-elements may-well not be supported. I certainly hope they don't support such shite—it's so 90s. Do you understand that I could work on [[MediaWiki]] itself as a developer? I'm familiar with [[PHP]], which is the language it is written in? My core skills are in other areas, but it would not be difficult for me to move in that direction. Look at your address bar during things like editing, or viewing history or diffs; it includes "index.php". That's just a large complex php script. For pages when you don't see it, it's just due to [[URL rewriting]].<br />
: IE is a piece of shite; I mostly don't bother supporting it in any specific manner, these days. If it gets something right, OK; if it gets proper code wrong, too-fucking-bad. Users experiencing such problems have only themselves to blame. We seem to agree here; all of the modern browsers are better. [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 08:57, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Well I thought by using that template, any changes to the color or code could be easily integrated? Makes sense. Like I said before, whatever is chosen is chosen. Life goes on. Whatever. It wouldn't bother me if you help develop Wikipedia from a technical standpoint. Why would it? My signature is mainly just seeking attention from me. It's so much easier to view a page to see if I left a comment in the past or not. SO MUCH easier. I don't see how that's bothering anyone else. A lot of admins have the boxy sigs. If rules change and we must discard them—so be it. Nothing of value will be lost. When and if I figure out what font element is deprecated, I'll un-deprecate it<sup>word?</sup>. Until then I guess I'm stuck with raunchy code. Thanks for letting me know. :)<br />
:: P.S. Is it <code>font-family:</code>? :P [[user:mikeAllen]] 20:10, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::: The template was intended as a tactical replacement for the extant bad code; it is an improvement, in the sense that using it in lieu of the crap that's been so extensively pasted about is a change from invalid code to valid code. It also serves as a reliable means of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Filmography_table_begin finding usages]; i.e. finding filmographies. Compare that with [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Filmography_table_end usage of the 'end' template]; ''they don't agree,'' which is due to folks not using the templates correctly; it's something you could fix: find pages using 'begin' but not 'end' and 'balance' the usages. I've done it a few times; it's now unbalanced, again. The template rather assumes, and thus forces, some things. It precludes the usages of proper captions, for example; captions are done with <nowiki>|+</nowiki> and there's no mechanism in the template to allow that. Captions are a semantically appropriate element for most any data table; their omission is a common deficiency on this project. Sure, suites of templates can be made ever more complex; that's called '''''work'''''. It is conceivable that a considerably more robust suite of templates could be developed that would be able to accommodate the sorts of structuring employed on [[Mary Pickford filmography]], but it's work (that's complex) and that in the end is simply unwarranted. A key goal in all professional software development is the management of complexity. Shite is complex enough as it is without layering-on moar that is gratuitous. These are the core themes in all this and the problem boils down to the fact that most editors on this project don't understand a lot of things. "whatevah" attitudes. No one who does not respect others who are talking sense goes very far around here; they remain [[littlun]]s. Oh, I only pointed out that I could work on MediaWiki to illustrate that I do know a lot about code. MediaWiki is a seriously complex bit of code and the database is complex, and truly enormous. I hear the pay sucks, too.<br />
::: I was referring to the HTML <tt>"<nowiki><font></nowiki>"</tt> element, not the CSS <tt>"font-family"</tt> property, which should have its value "quoted" in cases where the typeface name includes a space; in the case of inline CSS, such as in your sig, you should use single-quotes. The font-element has been deprecated by the [[World Wide Web Consortium]] and for you to reverse that would amount to a miracle (and we already have a [[Saint Michael]]). Do you understand what is meant by something such as an html element being depreciated? It means that there is a consensus of experts across the whole internet that something is inappropriate. It does not mean that something is not supported, but it is a step towards that. Tags like font and center will, eventually, move from deprecated to unsupported. There is also a very strong consensus in professional circles, including the [[W3C]], that ''hard-coded markup is inappropriate''. I'm not making this up, it's internet-wide consensus.<br />
::: Since you say that the purpose of your flashy sig is to enable *you* to find it on pages, would you be open to a technique that caused it the be emphasized only when you are viewing pages, but left it appearing as a standard-form sig when others viewed those some pages? I can walk you through this, and you might genuinely prefer it. [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 21:05, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::: Considering I'm here to build the ''content'' of the encyclopedia, not the ''framework'', I am refraining from participating in any debates concerning coding. Obviously I'm not well trained in all of that, so my opinion is mostly from an aesthetic perspective, which renders my comments on improving the hard markup coding that have allegedly been spewed on Wikipedia for years now, invalid and void. It's nothing against you or anyone else, but I feel if I don't know what I'm talking about, I shouldn't help make those decisions.<br />
:::: Plus the drama that unfolds with it (just about any RfC). [[Ugh]] I did not sign up for this in August 2009. I feel it just a waste of time, but I guess it depends on what your agenda is. Some editors -- that's all they do is participate in the dispute venues (ANI, etc). I guess someone has to be there to get things done. It's just not for me. I don't even like reporting other editors. :P I also don't like to continually quarrel with other editors, I rather get along or just simply agree to disagree and move on. Wikipedia is a HUGE place, there's no need to stay in one place. There's places I haven't even discovered yet here. LOL. With that said, I will take your recommendations (on the table template and codes) into consideration to next time I work on a filmog :)<br />
:::: I seen that at [[Wikipedia:Signatures#Appearance and color|WP:Signature]] after I left you the message. Personally, if I'm not getting a lot of complaints I don't see the point. If more people tell me my signature is distracting or over the top I will change my Vector skin to only show the graphic sig in my viewpoint. I do appreciate you letting me know my code is not up to common web standards and courtesy. In the future before I spit out codes (I usually just [[copypasta]]) I'll do more research on what the correct code is to use in 2010. :-D [[user:mikeAllen]] 23:10, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: No one should speak authoritatively on subjects they're not an authority on. That doesn't mean don't participate in such discussions if one's a mind to, but it serves everyone well if everyone honestly seeks to understand their skill set, understand their weak areas, listens to those speaking sensibly about the unfamiliar, and focuses on their core competencies. And see the play [[Equus (play)|Equus]] sometime for a take on this (it's not the core theme, but a lesson Alan is given early in the story). Glad to see you get most of this.<br />
::::: There's a new essay you might like: [[WP:ANISUCKS]]. New today. I'm an old hand at AN/I:<br />
:::::* [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive3#Vandalism]]<br />I'm a sock of Davenbelle ;)<br />
::::: I participated in the AC case that banned [[User:Ollieplatt]], who was also a sock:<br />
:::::* [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Libertas/Evidence#Evidence presented by Davenbelle]]<br />
::::: Look at the timestamps; 5½ years ago. [[User:Libertas]] (who also proved to be a sock, but I'm not sayin' whos, but they're blocked, too).<br />
::::: The sig idea I was referring to was to add a class to your sig and then add code to your user stylesheet that would target that class. Eventually this will become the norm, and then policy. Oh, that huge amounts of inappropriate hard-coded markup out there is not ''alleged'', it's demonstrably rampant, and I don't favour using ''today's'' standards, I support those still coming down the pike. It's about building the future. [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 00:12, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::: I don't see how that will become policy "eventually". Are there really that many problems with signatures? There's nothing wrong with having a personal preference, but you can't please everyone. Someone with an outdated HTML code in their signature is not going to damage the foundation at Wikipedia on any levels. That's silly and paranoid. Imma gonna keep my hard up signature, thank you. :-D [[user:mikeAllen]] 03:42, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::: I do. Yes, there are. No, there's not, and no, you can't. Yes, they can, but we'll cope. No, it's not. Of course, you are ;)<br />
::::::: Mike, I've been here coming up on six years and you've been here less than one; who would know? The [[littlun]], or the [[bigun]]?<br />
::::::: 06:38, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
{{collapsebottom}}<br />
<br />
== FYI ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I just want to let you know I responded to you at my talk page. Have a good night, --[[User:Crohnie|<span style="color:Indigo">'''Crohnie'''</span><span style="color:deeppink">'''Gal'''</span>]][[User talk:Crohnie|<span style="color:deepskyblue"><sup>Talk</sup></span>]] 21:56, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[Thathaal]] ==<br />
<br />
Dear sir, I have spent quite some time collecting information about [[Thathaal]]s,. I did not find any information other than wikipedia article pasted on certain sites. I also belong to the same clan and very much occupied to know about my origin. Here is my opinion about the article.<br />
<br />
This article is nothing but a crap, there are certain people who are busy "creating history" rather than reflecting history. The real purpose of this article is shown by the this sentence (paragraph " modern history, last sentence)" However, now, at present there is no difference between other Rajput Jat tribes and the '''great''' Thathaals.<br />
<br />
People behind this article are too much occupied to establish "Thathaal" as [[Jatt]] clan,rather than [[Rajput]]. the truth is that [[caste]] is a herditary thing, one can not change it, you are born in one caste, and you can't change that "fact". The article had started as Thothaal which was correct, but later the title of the article has been changed. second thing about Thothal is that they are not Jat but rajput, this was correctly mentioned by some earlier editor in the "View history". <br />
<br />
The article start with the claim that "They are said to be descendants of legendary Raja Karan Singh of the Mahabharata[2]." The truth is that Karan Singh ([[Karna]]) is never mentioned as Karan Singh in the Whole book [[Mahabharata]]. He is just mentioned karna and not having any surname, like all other charachters in the book. The word [[Singh]]( means "lion") was introduced by [[Rajput]] after about one thousand after the [[Mahabharata]] was written.<br />
<br />
Second claim: Thathaals claim their kinship with a Suryavanshi ''Rajput'' Raja Karan Singh through his son '''Raja Thathoo''', In Mahabharata we learn that Karna had nine sons (One does not need to read whole Mahabharata, this could be checked in wiki article about Karna], but none of his son had name "Thathoo".<br />
<br />
"Some of the persons from Thathaal tribe converted to Islam during period of '''Mehmood of Ghazna'''[4]".<br />
there is no proof for this. In fact this could be checked in any Indian history book, that Mehmood never stayed in India, he just invaded and plundered India several times and left back to [[Ghazni]], Afghanistan.<br />
<br />
The village "Mohmud Chak " is not the right name, the real name is "Mehmad Chak" and nothing to do with "Essa Khan Mohmand". There are many people from " Mehmad chak" living in Norway.<br />
In fact, none of the "reference" could be checked to find that if the reference support the claim. there are only six "working" which could be checked ( five of those are sorted by me and those are about villages and one about adil khan)<br />
<br />
'''THE TRUTH ABOUT THATHAAL''':<br />
The true word is "Thothal" and not "Thathaal", this I learend when in 2000 I wanted to sell some property in my home country, I went to the court to sign documents, I found that my caste was written "Thothal" and not "Thathal", I asked them to "correct" it, but I was told, "you people may like to call yourself whatever you like but in the official papers you are registered as Thothal", second thing I learned that we are [[Rajputs]] and not [[Jatt]]s. When I come back to Norway, I contacted the oldest man from " Thothal( Thathal)" clan. I was told "there was a king of [[Kashmir]] ( the kingdom of [[karna]] is not Kashmir but Anga (present day [[Bhagalpur]] ), whose name was Karan singh, the real time of Karan Singh is unknown. Karan singh had a son whose name was " Thotho" add NOT "Thathoo" as mentioned in the article. The descendants of Thotho were called Ththo-Al. Al means "descendant". Thotho-al means " the descendant of Thotho. With the passage of time the word Thotho-al became Thothal."<br />
<br />
Many people called themselve Thathal because they either don´t know the real word or they just speak carelessly. The word which is registerd in the official documents like at muncipal committees is Thothal and NOT Thathal. As far it goes for the villages, I did not find village with the name thathaal, but I found a village with the name" Thothal". I have problem accepting the later history of Thothals, because there is no source which could be checked. I am fairly well informed when it comes to my background , but i never learned these stories which are mentioned in the article. There is a book which have been mentioned as a source which is " A Glossary of the Tribe and casts of the Punjab and North-West Frontier Provinces by E.D. Maclagan and H.A. Rose", Here is the link to the book, http://openlibrary.org/books/OL14009905M/glossary_of_the_tribes_and_castes_of_the_Punjab_and_North-West_frontier_province.# . One can read this book online, I did not find anything about those claims which are in the article.<br />
Sorry, for writing so much. In fact I want to edit the article and delete almost 95% of the article because the claims are not justfied, but I havn't done anything because i don't want to get in trouble or get accusation for vendalism. Regards[[User:Jogibaba|Jogibaba]] ([[User talk:Jogibaba|talk]]) 21:30, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: You're losing me ;) I think you should take this up with someone at [[WP:PAKISTAN]] or a nearby [[WP:WIKIPROJECT]]. Discuss your concern, a tad more succinctly, on the article talk page (as, I see you are;) before you cut 95% of it. Best wises, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 07:37, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== User:Jack Merridew ==<br />
<br />
Dear User,<br />
you have added <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki> template for your [[:ml:User:Jack Merridew|user pages in ml wikipedia]]. Did you really indend to delete those pages? If yes, please add the <nowiki>{{SD|Reason}}</nowiki> template in those user pages.--[[User:Rameshng|Rameshng]] ([[User talk:Rameshng|talk]]) 18:53, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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: That was ages ago; I've undone those edits. Sorry for the fuss. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 19:18, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks so much! Cheers--[[User:Rameshng|Rameshng]] ([[User talk:Rameshng|talk]]) 14:14, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Thanks ==<br />
<br />
For [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gabi_Hernandez&action=historysubmit&diff=372031090&oldid=372024889 that]. <span style="font-family:'arial bold',serif;border:1px solid Black;">[[User:N419BH|<span style= "color:Black;background:#FFD700;">N419</span>]][[User talk:N419BH|<span style="background:Black;color:#FFD700;">BH</span>]]</span> 14:12, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: You're welcome; it's my job. Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 14:20, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== [[Ryan Seacrest]] ==<br />
<br />
HI Jack! ( I have been dying to say that! ) Thank you for jumping in on the Seacrest article. The homophobes really wear me down so any support is much appreciated!<br />
Nice to finally meetcha ! Namaste...[[User:DocOfSoc|DocOfSoc]] ([[User talk:DocOfSoc|talk]]) 12:55, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Terimia kasih. fyi, I have spent a lot of my life where people use ''[[namaste]]'' on a daily basis. And until today, I had little idea who Ryan Seacrest is. He's on my watchlist because a while ago, I chose to watch a huge number of such ''[[television personalities]]'', which I've just created a redirect for; to [[celebrity]], or just [[celeb]] for the 'vicariously kewl'. I've little personal interest in such people. Many, however, are quite obsessed with them all, compelled to stay glued to their [[babblebox]]es by the psychological fishhooks the damned things dangle into credulous minds. Your user page give a [[sociology]] rationale for your user name, so you would get this, no?<br />
: The article popped-up high on my watchlist; your last edit. I looked; it's core to the notion of watchlisting pages. I saw that the article had untidy reference formatting, so copied the title, clicked a bookmark to [[WP:REFLINKS]], pasted the title and clicked an option, and said 'go'. The tool did the rest. You drew my attention back, so I've done another edit to further [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryan_Seacrest&action=historysubmit&diff=372267008&oldid=372222580 tidy-up] bits of mess that most editors here leave in their wake. I note with some amusement that he's been [[stalked]]. Do my actions make me a stalker of him, too? Do they make me your stalker? I don't think so. I think that those that obsessively follow and defend such articles articles are a tad nearer that state of mind then I am. I personally don't give a rat's-ass about Ryan Seacrest. As a Wikipedia editor, I ''am'' concerned that his article (any article) contains reasonably accurate and balanced coverage and is free from unethical [[WP:BLP]] violations. And all our articles should be properly formatted so that articles across the project have some consistency. I see it as raising the bar just a hair with every edit.<br />
: You completely lost me with your homophobe comment, so I looked back in the article's history and found that some twerp on an [[Special:Contributions/98.198.96.244|IP]] that geolocates to [[Missouri City]], [[Texas]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryan_Seacrest&action=historysubmit&diff=372138140&oldid=372062584 vandalized the article] with such slurs. As you must know, the root of a lot of homophobia is latent homosexual urges in the person combined with a lot of denial. The act of disparaging others in this way amounts to an effort to expel the feelings by projecting them onto another.<br />
: Sincerely, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 20:42, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== a [[WP:TROUT]] moment ==<br />
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<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">[[Image:Peace.gif|100px|left]]<br />
appologies from a overzealous editor [[User:Weaponbb7|Weaponbb7]] ([[User talk:Weaponbb7|talk]]) 23:47, 7 July 2010 (UTC) has given you a [[columbidae|dove]]! Doves promote [[Wikipedia:WikiLove|WikiLove]] and hopefully this one has made your day happier. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a dove, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past (this fits perfectly) or a good friend. Cheers! <br /> <br />
----<br />
<small>Spread the peace of doves by adding {{tls|Peace dove}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message!</small><br />
{{clear}}<br />
</div><!-- Template:Peace Dove 2--><br />
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: I'll spare you teh fish ;) [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 23:49, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== [[User:Gold Hat]] ==<br />
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nb: I created [[User:Gold Hat]] to reserve a kewl user name for future use; I can't edit with it. [[User:Jack Merridew/History|Yet]]. ;) [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 20:59, 8 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Userpage images ==<br />
<br />
Any chance of sticking a wikilink in the captions for these in future? Saves me digging through source. Cheers. [[user:thumperward|Chris Cunningham (not at work)]] - [[user talk:thumperward|talk]] 23:15, 8 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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: My user page images? The ones that require attribution have links; on other, like my own/PD, I re-use that text-field for something else. It is due for a do-over; you'll have noticed it's not implemented with ease of editing in mind. The one that's up now has a link. Thinking I'm missing ya... Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 23:19, 8 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:: I was referring to the previous one, but cheers. :) [[user:thumperward|Chris Cunningham (not at work)]] - [[user talk:thumperward|talk]] 08:58, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::: I just previewed them all; all but the [[:file:Tower Grove Park Scene 1.jpg|park]] and the [[:file:Street dog-Gianyar Bali-2009.jpeg|dog]] have links to the images (and there's another [[:file:Tower Grove Park Scene 2.jpg|park image]]). I should be able to add those without messing up the look of things. This is all due for some new stuff, anyway. I was thinking of doing a take on this for my commons page, using all the new Pic-of-the-Year finalists. The biggest hassle in fiddling with this, is the colouring of the links in the quotes, and I've less to say in this regard to the Commons community and might go with a simplified approach.<br />
::: re: my opaque messaging system; I use [[WP:POPUPS]] and it gives the /history just by hovering; many would get only an ordinary link-balloon. With better access, I could put a nifty set of classes into service to enable fancier balloons for all.<br />
::: Cheers, [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 09:45, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 65 ==<br />
<br />
That's how many edits WHL has made since her "retirement"...&mdash;[[User:Chowbok|<span style="background:black; color:white; font-weight: bold;">Chowbok</span>]] [[User talk:Chowbok|<span style="color:black;">☠</span>]] 06:09, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hey Jack, you've been a good bud when I needed one. So consider this an FYI [[Talk:Monty_Roberts#Merge_discussion|of something you might be interested in seeing]]. [[User:Montanabw|<font color="006600">Montanabw</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Montanabw|(talk)]]</sup> 07:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC) (And [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Monty_Roberts&oldid=370676747 Permanent link here])<br />
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:: Thanks to you both; Mbw, that's ''quite'' useful ;) [[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 07:37, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Coding Resource ==<br />
<br />
Is there any updates on an WYSIWYG environment for editing wiki with a GUI interface? I've read the Wiki page about external editors and it doesn't seem like there are any good alternatives to the online editor or Microsoft Word. I've always had trouble finding a resource to learn Wikicode. Where would be a good resource to begin? [[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 16:35, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rlevse&diff=372604842User talk:Rlevse2010-07-09T16:33:55Z<p>Hmm...: /* User stats, editors and outing prevention */</p>
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== Re: Hmm ==<br />
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I stand by my comments, as I believe that they are an accurate representation of the facts. In the future I will be restricting my edits to non-controversial and non-DYK issues, as for this and a number of other reasons, I have lost faith in the DYK process. Kind regards, [[User:Quasihuman|Quasihuman]] ([[User talk:Quasihuman|talk]]) 22:22, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Disagreements happen all the time on wiki. It's inherent in the process and I've had my own DYK run ins, but I still enjoy it. Here, you're basically saying "if DYK/wiki doesn't agree with my views, they're hosed and I'm not participating". That's your choice but you're setting yourself up for failure within the wiki model. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:24, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Your definition of failure may be different to mine; mostly, I'm happy with researching and editing articles, I have no real desire to "succeed" in any way other than contributing to an article in a way that makes me happy. My attempt at reviewing DYK nominations was an attempt to learn more about what makes an article good, and to develop skill at critique which could be applied to my own work both on and off wiki. Thanks, [[User:Quasihuman|Quasihuman]] ([[User talk:Quasihuman|talk]]) 22:36, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Thanks ==<br />
<br />
I just wanted to say thanks for all the good work you are doing on DYK. I can see it's very hard and time consuming, and want you to know it's appreciated. [[User:Crum375|Crum375]] ([[User talk:Crum375|talk]]) 22:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Why thank you, that's very kind and much appreciated. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:51, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Seconded, particularly for sorting out the leftovers at the bottom of the pile that no-one else seems to want to touch! [[User:Bencherlite|Bencherlite]][[User talk:Bencherlite|<i><sup>Talk</sup></i>]] 18:44, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Why thanks again, and yes, we can use more help in the leftovers. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:28, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK miss ==<br />
<br />
I just saw that I overlooked my DYK notification and that you [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Did_you_know&diff=369818012&oldid=369817942 deleted] the nom. The hook was actually properly cited by the closest subsequent reference, which cited several consecutive sentences. I didn't really develop the article, but the hook was O.K.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|C]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|BIO]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:FOUR]]) </small> 06:53, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:But there is still the busted ref, number 1, that is used twice. It renders a "server not found" error and I don't think it should be in DYK in that state. If someone can fix that I will put it into a queue. NRHP probably rearranged their web site or there's a typo in the URL.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 10:13, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I gave it a look-see. The record isn't digitized yet in the NRHP/NPS system and the old NRIS system seems to be down either for the moment or good, not sure which. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 10:35, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:::I tried again and FOUND the [http://gis.hpa.state.il.us/hargis/Reports/Reports.aspx?RefNumVariable=223381&FormType=Short link], from the Illinois Historic Preservation Agency. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 10:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::::I have added the newly found link to the [[Illinois Institute of Technology Academic Campus]] page. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 10:51, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::::::Hmm, that's giving me an "HTTP status 404 error". Would you mind making it a ref but leave out the URL? <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 11:55, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Sure, gimme one second. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 11:57, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::::::::[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Illinois_Institute_of_Technology_Academic_Campus&diff=369899165&oldid=369892198 Done]. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 11:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:Sorry for the misunderstandig, but it's ref one Tony and I are talking about, not ref 3. I've reset the version. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 14:27, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I've marked that as a dead link and put the hook in a prep queue.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 18:39, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Oooops! I just picked the ref that was listed as #1 on the page. My mistake, but at least you know where to find a link when you need one. :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 00:18, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
==Revision deletion==<br />
For this [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Matthew_McConaughey&action=historysubmit&diff=369961135&oldid=369961009 DIFF]----[[User:Morenooso|moreno oso]] ([[User talk:Morenooso#top|talk]]) 19:37, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:either the diff is wrong or it was already done. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==request by user:congressionalstaff==<br />
Good day Rlevse may I respectfully request your kind assistance as an active editor of the Wikipedia article [[List of United States Naval Academy alumni (legislators)]] and as the one who worked to have it promoted to featured list on Wikipedia. I would like to include the picture of a noted alumni who had set a record not only during his stay at the US Naval Academy in Annapolis but also made historical impact as a politician and public servant in the Philippines, Congressman [[Roilo Golez]]. While at the academy he excelled in academics as a consistent Superintendent's List midshipman, in sports becoming a four-year undefeated academy boxing champion in his weight division setting a record in then more than 100 years of academy boxing, and in leadership having held the position of Company Commander which is a rare distinction for foreign midshipmen. In the Philippines, he had a long and productive career as a public servant having been elected in landslide victories in 1992, 1995, 1998, 2004, 2007, and 2010, serving as Representative of the City of Paranaque in the 9th, 10th, 11th, 13th and 14th Congress of the Philippines and will be serving in the incoming 15th Congress of the Philippines on his unprecedented sixth term in office as a congressman. He is also the President of the U.S. Naval Academy Alumni Association, Philippine Chapter and is a Life Member of the U.S. Naval Academy Alumni Association. He had also served as the President of the Boy Scouts of the Philippines, Governor of the Philippine National Red Cross, and President of the Amateur Boxing Association of the Philippines. I had tried to include his picture but was instructed by MBK004 to start a discussion on it first. Thank you very much in advance for your time and invaluable inputs. {{unsigned|Congressionalstaff}}<br />
:He certainly deserves an article but I'm not sure about a photo on the list. He's mentioned in the narrative above the list but most others aren't.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:20, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Sir Rlevse thank you very much for your prompt response. May I ask what would be the standard or basis required or observed by the Wikipedia community in placing the photo of a US Naval Academy alumni beside the list, in addition, for an alumni not so included to have his picture also placed beside the list. It would help a lot of people researching on the subject matter to have the picture of the mentioned alumnus right there on the article itself, it is a short list after all and the picture will just be small for which the space beside the table is ample enough to accomodate. At the very least, it could accomodate one more, please. [[User:Congressionalstaff|Congressionalstaff]] ([[User talk:Congressionalstaff|talk]]) 03:01, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::No need for calling me sir ;-) One thing is that there are already pics there and people really don't like for the row of pics to run below the list of names so. One would have to be swapped out. I suggest you start a chat on the list's talk page, post on MBK's page to see what he says, and see what other people say. Leave the talk open at least a week and we'll see how it's going.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 03:43, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Ok thanks I really appreciate your comments and will do as advised, btw I just checked the article's page again [[List of United States Naval Academy alumni (legislators)]] and the list of names now run quite below the row of pics on the side admitting perhaps the placement of two more pics without running below the list of names. I hope this request for one more pic may be given due course by the Wikipedia admins, sysop such as you and the rest of the Wikipedia community. Thanks so much, I'm learning to appreciate the quality and amount of collaborative work that goes into every article on Wikipedia. No wonder it is of the status it is today as a widely used and most visited reference website. [[User:Congressionalstaff|Congressionalstaff]] ([[User talk:Congressionalstaff|talk]]) 05:16, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Another Keegscee Sock==<br />
The socks keep breaking through, [[User:Xobni lluf]] is the newest. Kinda sad the user just doesn't seem to be smart enough to get they aren't welcome. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 04:05, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:Fastily blocked them, but the rangeblocks don't seem to be holding them back. They must be using other proxies. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 04:31, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::New one: [[User:Starbrighttonight]]. He claims he doesn't cause any drama, I actually cause the drama reporting him. Stupid sock is stupid. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 05:04, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:::Yes, multiple providers. Did what I could on these too.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 10:18, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Excellent, thank you :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 19:35, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
== Today's Wikipedian ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rlevse, that is extremely kind of you, and very much appreciated. Beyond that, I'd like to thank you for undertaking the TW effort in general, which I am sure helps spread good will around the project. I just hope that between the tireless work you do at DYK, the TW, and other wiki-things, you get a chance to take time off. Thanks again, [[User:Crum375|Crum375]] ([[User talk:Crum375|talk]]) 00:24, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks and ;-) <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:52, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ursula Buckel ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for approving her (and others) so promptly! I'm used to waiting for days and weeks until someone looks ... and didn't want to nominate too late. I was planning to expand both the singer and the cantata, promised. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 20:13, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:No problem.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 20:38, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Archiving my talk page ==<br />
<br />
Just wait a few days — I archive at the end of every third month, so it will be archived by the end of the week. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 15:39, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I've proposed a new hook for St. Joseph's Church. Thanks for the note; I proposed the original hook because I couldn't think of anything better, but I think my new proposal is better. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 15:52, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for persisting and putting up with me on this; the final result is much better because of your help. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 05:00, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::No problem. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 09:51, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Clint Eastwood==<br />
The article was split from the main article with the intention of condensing it like I did with the 1960s and 1970s. Unfortunately somebody nominated it for DYK....[[User:Dr. Blofeld| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">'''''Dr. Blofeld'''''</font>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Dr. Blofeld| <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat</font></font color> ]]</sup> 15:41, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well Gato disapproved it. So now the main needs compressed to a summary or the fork needs deleted. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:49, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RE: Happy Merovingian's Day! ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I really appreciate the recognition, thanks very much.<br><br />
Best regards and happy editing! --[[User:Merovingian|Merovingian]] ([[User talk:Merovingian|T]], [[Special:Contributions/Merovingian|C]], [[Special:Log/Merovingian|L]]) 01:39, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Update balance== <br />
<br />
I notice you seem to have prepared a few updates recently with more than four bio hooks. An update should never have more than four bios, unless it's absolutely unavoidable (ie, nothing but bio hooks left). Given that there are plenty of verified hooks at Suggestions ATM, it's not as if there aren't plenty of other hooks to choose from. <br />
<br />
And BTW, don't forget to choose a funny/quirky hook for the last slot - I've just noticed a few so-so ones lately, although I don't know whose updates they were. [[User:Gatoclass|Gatoclass]] ([[User talk:Gatoclass|talk]]) 05:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Recognitions ==<br />
<br />
I put those guys up there because Ed did go ahead and barnstar them. If you want to change to your sig that's cool.--[[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris (クリス • フィッチュ)]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 19:13, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Ed put them there with his sig, then you changed them to your sig. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 21:43, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== My Appreciation ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rlevse,<br />
<br />
Thank you so much for the barnstar! I found it very encouraging. Your "Wikipedian of the day" initiative is a great way of telling other editors that their years of contributions are appreciated. Kudos for promoting cooperation throughout the project.<br />
<br />
Happy editing,<br />
<br />
[[User:Neelix|Neelix]] ([[User talk:Neelix|talk]]) 02:34, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 09:51, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== ''The Wikipedia Signpost'': 28 June 2010 ==<br />
<br />
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"><br />
{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/{{#switch: 1<br />
| 1 = 2010-06-28<br />
| 2 = Volume 6, Issue 26<br />
| 3 = 2010-06-21<br />
| 4 = 2010-07-05<br />
}}}}<br />
</div><br />
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">'''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single|Single-page]] &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] &middot; [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) 21:59, 29 June 2010 (UTC)</div><br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0054 --><br />
<br />
== [[Wikipedia:Featured article review/Bhumibol Adulyadej/archive1]] ==<br />
<br />
I have nominated [[Bhumibol Adulyadej]] for a featured article review. [[User:Savidan|Savidan]] 21:20, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Long overdue. I gave up trying to save it long ago.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== WikiCup 2010 June newsletter ==<br />
<br />
[[File:Trophy.png|right]]<br />
We're half way through 2010, and the end of the WikiCup is in sight! Round 3 is over, and we're down to our final 16. Our pool winners were {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Ian Rose}} (A), {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Sturmvogel_66}} (B, and the round's overall leader), {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|ThinkBlue}} (C) {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Casliber}} and {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|TonyTheTiger}} (D, joint), but, with the scores reset, everything is to play for in our last pooled round. The pools will be up before midnight tonight, and have been selected randomly by J Milburn. This will be the toughest round yet, and so, as ever, anything you worry may not receive the necessary attention before the end of the round (such as outstanding GA or FA nominations) is welcome at [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews]], and please remember to continue offering reviews yourself where possible. As always, the judges are available to contact via email, IRC or their talk pages, and general discussion about the Cup is welcome on the [[WT:CUP|WikiCup talk page]].<br />
<br />
Though unaffiliated with the WikiCup, July sees the [[Wikipedia:The Great Wikipedia Dramaout/3rd|third Great Wikipedia Dramaout]]- a project with not dissimilar goals to the WikiCup. Everyone is welcome to take part and do their bit to contribute to the encyclopedia itself.<br />
<br />
If you're interested in the scores for the last round of the Cup, please take a look at [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/History/2010/Round 3]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/History/2010/Full/Round 3]]. Our thanks go to {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Stone}} for compiling these. As was predicted, Group C ended up the "Group of Death", with 670 points required for second place, and, therefore, automatic promotion. This round will probably be even tougher- again, the top two from each of the two groups will make it through, while the twelve remaining participants will compete for four wildcard places- good luck everyone! <small>If you wish to start receiving or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send]].</small> [[User:J Milburn|J Milburn]], [[User:Fox|Fox]] and [[User:The ed17|The ed17]]<br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0055 --><br />
<br />
== Me day ==<br />
<br />
Though I know not why (or even how) it came to pass that I was selected as a "Day" recipient, thank you.<br />
--[[User:Piledhigheranddeeper|Piledhigheranddeeper]] ([[User talk:Piledhigheranddeeper|talk]]) 01:12, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RFC closed ==<br />
<br />
Hi, in your ARBCOM hat - I was looking for some feedback on on the way forward as the RFC discussion has closed concerning what we are to do with the low results returned in the checkuser and oversight elections [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Checkuser_and_oversighter_selection#.22Immediate_steps.22_poll_by_FT2 "Immediate steps" poll by FT2] and is in need of assessment and the next step, whatever that is to be, regards.[[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 23:35, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well, there's not much of a consensus there for anything is there. Considering there is a dire need for more CUs and OSs, that is indeed a conundrum. We're discussing it.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:03, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your attention. [[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 01:11, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK prep 2 ==<br />
<br />
Hi, not sure if you've started trying to compile Prep2, but I just uploaded a set there. Sorry, I think I forgot to save the Inuse template since I don't see it in the history. <i>[[User:Grondemar|&ndash;]][[User talk:Grondemar|Grondemar]]</i> 16:21, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:No biggie, I'll put mine in extra. Tks for letting me know. I am pulling a set now. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 16:22, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== True/Slant ==<br />
<br />
Hello. I'm a bit concerned about [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Did_you_know&diff=prev&oldid=371360327#Articles_created.2Fexpanded_on_June_22 the True/Slant matter], and the way it was handled. First, for reasons articulated there by a number of editors, I don't think there was any legitimate BLP issue. It is not enough for one to claim there is such an issue; that must in fact be the case. What was argued -- that the hook had no BLP issue, and most of the article underlying the hook had no BLP issue, but one sentence in the article did have a BLP issue, because that sentence said a person held a sign with a spelling error, is not IMHO a legitimate BLP issue. The BLP argument was used by the same editor in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Arrest_of_Two_New_Jersey_Men_Bound_for_Somalia an AFD discussion]. He called it a "clear BLP violation". Not one editor agreed with him. The article was kept a "Keep". Here, it is even more attenuated -- as the phrase is not even in the hook (though I obviously feel were it in the hook, the answer would be the same). The hook was approved. Gato said no decision can be made, as conversation is ongoing. Then, with most of the editors disagreeing with Gato, you come in to the still-ongoing-discussion and close it as disapproved.<br />
<br />
If Gato was wrong that the editor could not approve the discussion, it should have been approved. If he was right, because the conversation was ongoing, then you also should not be able to close the discussion as a disapprove.<br />
<br />
IMHO. Respectfully. I would ask, for the foregoing reasons, that you restore the discussion.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 00:53, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:BLP standards for DYK, since they appear on the main page, are higher than for article space. I'm not about to put that on the main page with all the ongoing concerns. That is alone is enough to disapprove it, but in addition nor will I keep it there on hold for as long as a BLPN takes.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:59, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::"All the ongoing concerns" have been demonstrated to be just so many words IMHO, and in the opinion of most of the editors in that discussion. The editor who posed the same concerns at AfD was informed by lack of any agreement that his assertions of "clear BLP violation" were just words -- not the case. I see the same here; even worse, as the hook itself lacks any such claimed violation whatsoever. The standards applied at DYK (which you refer to) are reflected at the DYKs that I pointed to. They reflect that the higher standard you refer to allows for hooks describing people as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:DYKSTATS 10 most wanted fugitives] and as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:DYKSTATS be-headers] (with pictures to boot), and these hooks are among those we boast about as having the most hits. This clearly falls well within that standard. I don't think its even close. I'm concerned as well with the double standard -- the approver cannot close the discussion because it is ongoing, but the non-approver can? I'm struggling to appreciate how that can be. Thanks for your thoughts.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:07, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I'm not changing my mind. Recall the Arabian DYK issue. That's two BLP-related DYK noms with significant concerns you've been at the center at in as many weeks.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:13, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*Yes. With the same Gato -- whose edits are discussed there--at the center of it. And the other hook was one that was added to a queue, but then you deleted from a queue--so you were also at the center of it. <br />
<br />
I fail to see how I am being treated consistently, since you promote for DYK an article that says "Montoya '''had previously been investigated in July 2006 for sexual assault that involved vaginal penetration on Nevaeh, then 23 months old'''", and that's just fine. But when I have an article that mentions '''a spelling error''', its not. I'm slightly troubled that there may be a double standard. And that you've again not indicated why you can close a conversation in mid-discussion, but an approver cannot. I would like to appeal this matter -- what would you suggest is the appropriate manner? I would like it to be reviewed by people other than those who have given us and Gato awards -- third parties who are more arms'length -- as I think we can then get the fairest result. Many thanks.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:19, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::That was not the hook used in Neveah's article, you're putting the problematic bit right in the hook. Spelling has nothing to do with it. The Arabian thread is where I learned how much the DYK BLP standard is higher is. I explained why I closed this particular nom. If you want more review, go ahead, but again, I'm not changing my mind. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:26, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*No. Respectfully--you are absolutely wrong. You apparently closed the True/Slant discussion without reading the hooks. --[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:31, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Totally untrue. Let me elaborate on one thing I said above about ongoing BLPN, I'm not putting an article with a BLPN up as DYK hook, not even with that alt hook. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:31, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I feel we must be speaking different languages. You, above, said "That was not the hook used in Neveah's article, ''you're putting the problematic bit right in the hook''." Focusing on the ''True/Slant'' hook(s), for the moment, there was no BLP problem with the hook(s). One was only even claimed (without support at the AfD, and without consensus support at the DyK discussion) ''as to the underlying article''. But that's certainly not the standard applied at DyK, as is evident in not only your DYK where the underlying article speaks of alleged vaginal penetration of a 23-month-old, but in any number of others which (as yours) speak of things perhaps slightly more unspeakable than a spelling error. Nor have you stated what the standard is, or where it is written.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:42, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Move along. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:52, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*I'm not sure what that means. I had thought we had a misunderstanding, and sought to clarify. You seem to be indicating that you are not interested in responding to my request for clarification. I had thought that under wp:admin, it was the least I could expect, especially as you seemed to confuse whether the True/Slant hook(s) had a putative BLP violation. I gather you are not inclined to do so.<br />
<br />
Just so I'm clear, my concerns at this point are as follows. <br />
#I don't think there is a legitimate BLP concern, for the reasons stated by me and others, both in the two DYK threads and at the AfD. <br />
#I don't feel there is any "higher level DYK" concern in these two hooks, as evidenced by a) the level of DYK concern about underlying articles evidenced elsewhere, b) the level of DYK concern about hooks that were far more negative about living persons, c) the fact that nobody has indicated why a ''spelling error'' in an underlying article violates such higher standard, and d) the fact that nobody has articulated precisely what that higher standard is, and where it is reflected. <br />
#I'm concerned that Gato is applying a higher standard to my DYKs than is being applied to others. <br />
#I'm concerned that you are doing the same. <br />
#I'm concerned that after my first DYK was put in queue by the editor who pulled it out, you reverted him, and now after an approving editor is reverted ''on the basis that conversation is ongoing'', you disapprove the hook ''even though conversation is ongoing''. <br />
#You appear disinclined to respond to my efforts to learn where that standard is stated, what the standard is, and what I am missing in the comparison between the True/Slant hook and your hook -- which had a much more BLP-sensitive accusation in it.<br />
<br />
Obviously, these issues are more than DYK or BLP by themselves can handle, and I think it best not to separate them. I would like to proceed in a manner that is agreeable with you, if possible. To keep the discussion centralized, do you think that AN/I would be the best place to go? Or RFC? Not necessarily as the final level, but as the next level?--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:58, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I've explained myself, you're not listening we're going in circles. Move along. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:00, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*I'll move along, as you suggest. But just to be clear -- I've articulated above just where you have failed to explain yourself. IMHO, of course. I won't repeat the items, as they are delineated clearly enough above, and I don't wish to trouble you. I gather you have no view as to the best reviewing forum.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 02:11, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== User groups ==<br />
<br />
Hi. Could you recover Brandmeister's user rights for this alternate account of mine? CU may endorse IP match. [[User:Twilight Chill|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#2F4D92">'''Twilight'''</span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#6082B6">'''chill'''</span>]] [[User talk:Twilight Chill|''t'']] 19:17, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Done. CU confirmed.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:27, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::See [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard&oldid=369565717#Unique_CU_and_Rename_request this for the record] <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:36, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Prep Extra ==<br />
<br />
Sorry if I cut you off in editing that template. I forgot to finish it and came back to fill in the remaining spots not really knowing that you were already on it :)--[[user:White Shadows|<font style="color:#191970">'''White Shadows'''</font>]] <sup>[[user talk:White Shadows|<font style="color:#DC143C">'''There goes another day'''</font>]]</sup> 22:54, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's okay. No problem. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:55, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks ;)--[[user:White Shadows|<font style="color:#191970">'''White Shadows'''</font>]] <sup>[[user talk:White Shadows|<font style="color:#DC143C">'''There goes another day'''</font>]]</sup> 22:57, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[Daniel Lambert]] for [[WP:DYK|Did you know?]] ==<br />
<br />
You seem currently busy editing. I updated the phrasing of the article about [[Daniel Lambert]] to "[[corrections officer|prison warder]] ('[[gaol]] keeper')", to avoid ambiguity.<br />
<br />
This change should be done on the QUEUE for DYK, imho, but I don't know how. <br />
<br />
(I thought Lambert was a [[association football]] ([[soccer]]) [[Goalkeeper (association football)|goal-keeper]], which is exactly what Wikipedia suggests if you search for [[gaol keeper]]!) <br />
<br />
Thanks, [[User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz|Kiefer.Wolfowitz]] ([[User talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz|talk]]) 23:24, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:And I've undone it; please don't make daft edits like this. A gaol keeper has nothing in common with either a prison warder or a "corrections officer" (whatever that is) other than both working in custodies of some kind.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 23:28, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It seems clear this guy ran a prison. Use whatever term for that you guys like. FYI, "corrections officer" is a modern day US term for someone that keeps an eye on prison/jail inmates, which Lambert does seem to have done. I've fixed the queue hook so that gaol no longer goes to a redirect but directly to [[prison]].<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:44, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::A gaol keeper ''owned'' a gaol (not a prison, which in this period is a hard-labour institution rather than a town lock-up) and took a per-prisoner fee from the local town or sheriff. All an eighteenth-century gaol keeper has is common with a modern-day prison warder is that they both worked in a place where people are locked up.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 23:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Then I'd say gaol needs its own article or a section in [[prison]] <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:57, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::It's a problematic one; "gaol" today ''is'' the British-English word for "prison" (the labour-camps no longer exist), and that's the sense in which most people will be searching for it. We do have an (very unsatisfactorily-titled) article on the old-style gaols and bridewells at [[Village lock-up]], but that needs a huge cleanup; it can't be moved to "Lock-up" because "lock-up" itself ''also'' has a new meaning in the present-day English system (the cells in police stations where recently-arrested people are kept). <br />
<br />
:::::The problem is that the only people regularly working on 18th-19th century England are myself and Slim, and we both have a limited amount of time on our hands; plus, policing and prisons are one field where Wikipedia's coverage is massively skewed towards the US (that [[prison warden]] article doesn't even ''mention'' the rest of the world), so the "obvious" links often point to wildly misleading things on US posts or buildings with the same name but completely different functions.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 00:10, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Hmm, that is problematic.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:11, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::What's really ironic is that the US split from Britain before the 1839 restructuring of the British penal system, and thus preserved the gaol/prison distinction; [[Prison]] includes a long section on [[Prison#Jails in the United States|Jails in the United States]] which explains the difference perfectly, but obviously can't be used here because it's not in the US...&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 00:24, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK : [[Recaredo Santos Tornero]] ==<br />
<br />
Hi. I recall having a DYK in the past but I don't remember the process. My DYK for [[Recaredo Santos Tornero]] has already been verified. How much does it takes to be taken to the queue? Thanks in advance! :-) [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] <sup>[[User talk:Diego Grez|let's talk]]</sup> 15:54, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I tend to focus the older noms as most people focus on the newer ones. I do so as those people have been waiting longer to see theirs on the main page. Yours was only posted and verified yesterday and there's still stuff waiting from late June. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 16:03, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Ah, OK then. :) --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] <sup>[[User talk:Diego Grez|let's talk]]</sup> 16:13, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK request ==<br />
<br />
The hook in the prep area for [[Copano, Texas]] also links [[Copano Bay]]. I recently rewrote the Copano Bay article, which now qualifies for DYK because it was over a 5x expansion discounting the copyright violation and unreferenced nonsense previously on the page. Could it be possible to bold the link to Copano Bay on the hook to create a double nomination hook?--[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] ([[User talk:William S. Saturn|talk]]) 08:05, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Based on prose size that's not even a 3x expansion (2078 to 5466). And I'm not seeing the copyright thing you mention, but I'm not totally awake yet ;-) Maybe ask Gatoclass or Materialscientist about this. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 10:04, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It was a complete rewrite, so it basically went from 0 to 5466.--[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] ([[User talk:William S. Saturn|talk]]) 16:46, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Now I see it. Done. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 20:16, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Thank you very much.--[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] ([[User talk:William S. Saturn|talk]]) 20:24, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== ''The Wikipedia Signpost'': 5 July 2010 ==<br />
<br />
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"><br />
{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/{{#switch: 1<br />
| 1 = 2010-07-05<br />
| 2 = Volume 6, Issue 27<br />
| 3 = 2010-06-28<br />
| 4 = 2010-07-12<br />
}}}}<br />
</div><br />
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">'''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single|Single-page]] &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] &middot; [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) 16:19, 6 July 2010 (UTC)</div><br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0056 --><br />
<br />
== Re: Happy Me Day ==<br />
<br />
Many thanks for this, Rlevse. I've been having a stressful time lately for reasons unconnected with Wikipedia, and your award really made me smile. I am awed to have been chosen. Regards, [[User:Espresso Addict|Espresso Addict]] <small>([[User talk:Espresso Addict|talk]])</small> 16:58, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks and you're welcome. Glad it helped in other ways too. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 17:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Email 7-8-10 ==<br />
<br />
Hello,<br />
<br />
I just corresponded with you via email. I would like to go ahead with your suggestion. Please email me if you have any questions.<br />
<br />
Thank you <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Piccol13|Piccol13]] ([[User talk:Piccol13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piccol13|contribs]]) 01:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
:For the record that was a random rename request. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:03, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
Yes, thank you <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:As8q34wipo|As8q34wipo]] ([[User talk:As8q34wipo|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/As8q34wipo|contribs]]) 01:04, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
:Done.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
not to be a pest but i still see there are a couple lines that read "undid revision by piccol 13" is this changeable? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Piccol13|Piccol13]] ([[User talk:Piccol13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piccol13|contribs]]) 01:06, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
::Nope.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
ok, thank you <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Piccol13|Piccol13]] ([[User talk:Piccol13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piccol13|contribs]]) 01:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
<br />
== User stats, editors and outing prevention ==<br />
<br />
Hello<br />
<br />
I have a few questions. Are there stat code I could put on my talk page that would be similar to yours? I also like your user page, and I suspect that it was not entirely written in Wikipedia's online edit page as it is so complex. Did you use an external editor? I've always had trouble finding a resource to learn Wikicode. Is there any external WYSIWYG editor for editing wiki with a GUI interface? I've read the Wiki page about external editors and it doesn't seem like there are any good alternatives to the online editor or Microsoft Word. My last question about outing. I've changed my user name a while ago after I was outed. I since changed my user name, but I've noticed that some of my edits in the talk/discussion pages still have my RL name. So I had broken rule 1, 5, and 7. Should I just make a new account? Can I transfer edits and still be a verified user or whatnot?<br />
<br />
Thanks [[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 01:57, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:For the stats, ask [[User:Rjanag]]. For the wikicode, ask [[User:Jack Merridew]]. I did not write my own user page code. Renaming only changes contribs and user pages. It won't change edit summaries, your name in talk page text, etc. You could make a new account as long as you cease using all prior accounts, including Hmm... . I can rename you but that will move Hmm... edits to the new name. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I already renamed, but my talk pages still use the old RL name. I guess I can just start a new account as I have <200 edits. I would just lose all my history of edits then. :( [[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 16:33, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
{{tb|StephenBuxton}}</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rlevse&diff=372604735User talk:Rlevse2010-07-09T16:33:19Z<p>Hmm...: /* User stats, editors and outing prevention */</p>
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<div>{{NOINDEX}} <br />
{{User:Rlevse/Prologue}}<br />
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[[/Archive 1| 15 Nov 2005 &ndash; 28 Feb 2006]] {{·}} [[/Archive 2| 01 Mar 2006 &ndash; 30 Jun 2006]] {{·}} [[/Archive 3| 01 Jul 2006 &ndash; 30 Sep 2006]] {{·}} [[/Archive 4| 01 Oct 2006 &ndash; 31 Dec 2006]] {{·}} [[/Archive 5| 01 Jan 2007 &ndash; 31 Mar 2007]] {{·}} [[/Archive 6| 01 Apr 2007 &ndash; 30 Jun 2007]] {{·}} [[/Archive 7| 01 Jul 2007 &ndash; 30 Sep 2007]] {{·}} [[/Archive 8| 01 Oct 2007 &ndash; 31 Dec 2007]] {{·}} [[/Archive 9| 01 Jan 2008 &ndash; 31 Mar 2008]] {{·}} [[/Archive 10| 01 Apr 2008 &ndash; 30 Jun 2008]] {{·}} [[/Archive 11| 01 Jul 2008 &ndash; 30 Sep 2008]] {{·}} [[/Archive 12| 01 Oct 2008 &ndash; 31 Dec 2008]] {{·}} [[/Archive 13| 01 Jan 2009 &ndash; 31 Mar 2009]] {{·}} [[/Archive 14| 01 Apr 2009 &ndash; 30 Jun 2009]] {{·}} [[/Archive 15| 01 Jul 2009 &ndash; 30 Sep 2009]] {{·}} [[/Archive 16| 01 Oct 2009 &ndash; 31 Dec 2009]] {{·}} [[/Archive 17| 01 Jan 2010 &ndash; 31 Mar 2010]] {{·}} [[/Archive 18| 01 Apr 2010 &ndash; 30 Jun 2010]] {{·}} }}<br />
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== Re: Hmm ==<br />
<br />
I stand by my comments, as I believe that they are an accurate representation of the facts. In the future I will be restricting my edits to non-controversial and non-DYK issues, as for this and a number of other reasons, I have lost faith in the DYK process. Kind regards, [[User:Quasihuman|Quasihuman]] ([[User talk:Quasihuman|talk]]) 22:22, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Disagreements happen all the time on wiki. It's inherent in the process and I've had my own DYK run ins, but I still enjoy it. Here, you're basically saying "if DYK/wiki doesn't agree with my views, they're hosed and I'm not participating". That's your choice but you're setting yourself up for failure within the wiki model. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:24, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Your definition of failure may be different to mine; mostly, I'm happy with researching and editing articles, I have no real desire to "succeed" in any way other than contributing to an article in a way that makes me happy. My attempt at reviewing DYK nominations was an attempt to learn more about what makes an article good, and to develop skill at critique which could be applied to my own work both on and off wiki. Thanks, [[User:Quasihuman|Quasihuman]] ([[User talk:Quasihuman|talk]]) 22:36, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Thanks ==<br />
<br />
I just wanted to say thanks for all the good work you are doing on DYK. I can see it's very hard and time consuming, and want you to know it's appreciated. [[User:Crum375|Crum375]] ([[User talk:Crum375|talk]]) 22:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Why thank you, that's very kind and much appreciated. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:51, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Seconded, particularly for sorting out the leftovers at the bottom of the pile that no-one else seems to want to touch! [[User:Bencherlite|Bencherlite]][[User talk:Bencherlite|<i><sup>Talk</sup></i>]] 18:44, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Why thanks again, and yes, we can use more help in the leftovers. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:28, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK miss ==<br />
<br />
I just saw that I overlooked my DYK notification and that you [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Did_you_know&diff=369818012&oldid=369817942 deleted] the nom. The hook was actually properly cited by the closest subsequent reference, which cited several consecutive sentences. I didn't really develop the article, but the hook was O.K.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|C]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|BIO]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:FOUR]]) </small> 06:53, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:But there is still the busted ref, number 1, that is used twice. It renders a "server not found" error and I don't think it should be in DYK in that state. If someone can fix that I will put it into a queue. NRHP probably rearranged their web site or there's a typo in the URL.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 10:13, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I gave it a look-see. The record isn't digitized yet in the NRHP/NPS system and the old NRIS system seems to be down either for the moment or good, not sure which. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 10:35, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:::I tried again and FOUND the [http://gis.hpa.state.il.us/hargis/Reports/Reports.aspx?RefNumVariable=223381&FormType=Short link], from the Illinois Historic Preservation Agency. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 10:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::::I have added the newly found link to the [[Illinois Institute of Technology Academic Campus]] page. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 10:51, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::::::Hmm, that's giving me an "HTTP status 404 error". Would you mind making it a ref but leave out the URL? <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 11:55, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Sure, gimme one second. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 11:57, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::::::::[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Illinois_Institute_of_Technology_Academic_Campus&diff=369899165&oldid=369892198 Done]. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 11:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:Sorry for the misunderstandig, but it's ref one Tony and I are talking about, not ref 3. I've reset the version. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 14:27, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I've marked that as a dead link and put the hook in a prep queue.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 18:39, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Oooops! I just picked the ref that was listed as #1 on the page. My mistake, but at least you know where to find a link when you need one. :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 00:18, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
==Revision deletion==<br />
For this [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Matthew_McConaughey&action=historysubmit&diff=369961135&oldid=369961009 DIFF]----[[User:Morenooso|moreno oso]] ([[User talk:Morenooso#top|talk]]) 19:37, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:either the diff is wrong or it was already done. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==request by user:congressionalstaff==<br />
Good day Rlevse may I respectfully request your kind assistance as an active editor of the Wikipedia article [[List of United States Naval Academy alumni (legislators)]] and as the one who worked to have it promoted to featured list on Wikipedia. I would like to include the picture of a noted alumni who had set a record not only during his stay at the US Naval Academy in Annapolis but also made historical impact as a politician and public servant in the Philippines, Congressman [[Roilo Golez]]. While at the academy he excelled in academics as a consistent Superintendent's List midshipman, in sports becoming a four-year undefeated academy boxing champion in his weight division setting a record in then more than 100 years of academy boxing, and in leadership having held the position of Company Commander which is a rare distinction for foreign midshipmen. In the Philippines, he had a long and productive career as a public servant having been elected in landslide victories in 1992, 1995, 1998, 2004, 2007, and 2010, serving as Representative of the City of Paranaque in the 9th, 10th, 11th, 13th and 14th Congress of the Philippines and will be serving in the incoming 15th Congress of the Philippines on his unprecedented sixth term in office as a congressman. He is also the President of the U.S. Naval Academy Alumni Association, Philippine Chapter and is a Life Member of the U.S. Naval Academy Alumni Association. He had also served as the President of the Boy Scouts of the Philippines, Governor of the Philippine National Red Cross, and President of the Amateur Boxing Association of the Philippines. I had tried to include his picture but was instructed by MBK004 to start a discussion on it first. Thank you very much in advance for your time and invaluable inputs. {{unsigned|Congressionalstaff}}<br />
:He certainly deserves an article but I'm not sure about a photo on the list. He's mentioned in the narrative above the list but most others aren't.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:20, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Sir Rlevse thank you very much for your prompt response. May I ask what would be the standard or basis required or observed by the Wikipedia community in placing the photo of a US Naval Academy alumni beside the list, in addition, for an alumni not so included to have his picture also placed beside the list. It would help a lot of people researching on the subject matter to have the picture of the mentioned alumnus right there on the article itself, it is a short list after all and the picture will just be small for which the space beside the table is ample enough to accomodate. At the very least, it could accomodate one more, please. [[User:Congressionalstaff|Congressionalstaff]] ([[User talk:Congressionalstaff|talk]]) 03:01, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::No need for calling me sir ;-) One thing is that there are already pics there and people really don't like for the row of pics to run below the list of names so. One would have to be swapped out. I suggest you start a chat on the list's talk page, post on MBK's page to see what he says, and see what other people say. Leave the talk open at least a week and we'll see how it's going.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 03:43, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Ok thanks I really appreciate your comments and will do as advised, btw I just checked the article's page again [[List of United States Naval Academy alumni (legislators)]] and the list of names now run quite below the row of pics on the side admitting perhaps the placement of two more pics without running below the list of names. I hope this request for one more pic may be given due course by the Wikipedia admins, sysop such as you and the rest of the Wikipedia community. Thanks so much, I'm learning to appreciate the quality and amount of collaborative work that goes into every article on Wikipedia. No wonder it is of the status it is today as a widely used and most visited reference website. [[User:Congressionalstaff|Congressionalstaff]] ([[User talk:Congressionalstaff|talk]]) 05:16, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Another Keegscee Sock==<br />
The socks keep breaking through, [[User:Xobni lluf]] is the newest. Kinda sad the user just doesn't seem to be smart enough to get they aren't welcome. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 04:05, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:Fastily blocked them, but the rangeblocks don't seem to be holding them back. They must be using other proxies. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 04:31, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::New one: [[User:Starbrighttonight]]. He claims he doesn't cause any drama, I actually cause the drama reporting him. Stupid sock is stupid. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 05:04, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:::Yes, multiple providers. Did what I could on these too.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 10:18, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Excellent, thank you :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 19:35, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
== Today's Wikipedian ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rlevse, that is extremely kind of you, and very much appreciated. Beyond that, I'd like to thank you for undertaking the TW effort in general, which I am sure helps spread good will around the project. I just hope that between the tireless work you do at DYK, the TW, and other wiki-things, you get a chance to take time off. Thanks again, [[User:Crum375|Crum375]] ([[User talk:Crum375|talk]]) 00:24, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks and ;-) <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:52, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ursula Buckel ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for approving her (and others) so promptly! I'm used to waiting for days and weeks until someone looks ... and didn't want to nominate too late. I was planning to expand both the singer and the cantata, promised. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 20:13, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:No problem.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 20:38, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Archiving my talk page ==<br />
<br />
Just wait a few days — I archive at the end of every third month, so it will be archived by the end of the week. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 15:39, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I've proposed a new hook for St. Joseph's Church. Thanks for the note; I proposed the original hook because I couldn't think of anything better, but I think my new proposal is better. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 15:52, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for persisting and putting up with me on this; the final result is much better because of your help. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 05:00, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::No problem. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 09:51, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Clint Eastwood==<br />
The article was split from the main article with the intention of condensing it like I did with the 1960s and 1970s. Unfortunately somebody nominated it for DYK....[[User:Dr. Blofeld| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">'''''Dr. Blofeld'''''</font>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Dr. Blofeld| <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat</font></font color> ]]</sup> 15:41, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well Gato disapproved it. So now the main needs compressed to a summary or the fork needs deleted. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:49, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RE: Happy Merovingian's Day! ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I really appreciate the recognition, thanks very much.<br><br />
Best regards and happy editing! --[[User:Merovingian|Merovingian]] ([[User talk:Merovingian|T]], [[Special:Contributions/Merovingian|C]], [[Special:Log/Merovingian|L]]) 01:39, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Update balance== <br />
<br />
I notice you seem to have prepared a few updates recently with more than four bio hooks. An update should never have more than four bios, unless it's absolutely unavoidable (ie, nothing but bio hooks left). Given that there are plenty of verified hooks at Suggestions ATM, it's not as if there aren't plenty of other hooks to choose from. <br />
<br />
And BTW, don't forget to choose a funny/quirky hook for the last slot - I've just noticed a few so-so ones lately, although I don't know whose updates they were. [[User:Gatoclass|Gatoclass]] ([[User talk:Gatoclass|talk]]) 05:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Recognitions ==<br />
<br />
I put those guys up there because Ed did go ahead and barnstar them. If you want to change to your sig that's cool.--[[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris (クリス • フィッチュ)]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 19:13, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Ed put them there with his sig, then you changed them to your sig. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 21:43, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== My Appreciation ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rlevse,<br />
<br />
Thank you so much for the barnstar! I found it very encouraging. Your "Wikipedian of the day" initiative is a great way of telling other editors that their years of contributions are appreciated. Kudos for promoting cooperation throughout the project.<br />
<br />
Happy editing,<br />
<br />
[[User:Neelix|Neelix]] ([[User talk:Neelix|talk]]) 02:34, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 09:51, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== ''The Wikipedia Signpost'': 28 June 2010 ==<br />
<br />
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"><br />
{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/{{#switch: 1<br />
| 1 = 2010-06-28<br />
| 2 = Volume 6, Issue 26<br />
| 3 = 2010-06-21<br />
| 4 = 2010-07-05<br />
}}}}<br />
</div><br />
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">'''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single|Single-page]] &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] &middot; [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) 21:59, 29 June 2010 (UTC)</div><br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0054 --><br />
<br />
== [[Wikipedia:Featured article review/Bhumibol Adulyadej/archive1]] ==<br />
<br />
I have nominated [[Bhumibol Adulyadej]] for a featured article review. [[User:Savidan|Savidan]] 21:20, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Long overdue. I gave up trying to save it long ago.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== WikiCup 2010 June newsletter ==<br />
<br />
[[File:Trophy.png|right]]<br />
We're half way through 2010, and the end of the WikiCup is in sight! Round 3 is over, and we're down to our final 16. Our pool winners were {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Ian Rose}} (A), {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Sturmvogel_66}} (B, and the round's overall leader), {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|ThinkBlue}} (C) {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Casliber}} and {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|TonyTheTiger}} (D, joint), but, with the scores reset, everything is to play for in our last pooled round. The pools will be up before midnight tonight, and have been selected randomly by J Milburn. This will be the toughest round yet, and so, as ever, anything you worry may not receive the necessary attention before the end of the round (such as outstanding GA or FA nominations) is welcome at [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews]], and please remember to continue offering reviews yourself where possible. As always, the judges are available to contact via email, IRC or their talk pages, and general discussion about the Cup is welcome on the [[WT:CUP|WikiCup talk page]].<br />
<br />
Though unaffiliated with the WikiCup, July sees the [[Wikipedia:The Great Wikipedia Dramaout/3rd|third Great Wikipedia Dramaout]]- a project with not dissimilar goals to the WikiCup. Everyone is welcome to take part and do their bit to contribute to the encyclopedia itself.<br />
<br />
If you're interested in the scores for the last round of the Cup, please take a look at [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/History/2010/Round 3]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/History/2010/Full/Round 3]]. Our thanks go to {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Stone}} for compiling these. As was predicted, Group C ended up the "Group of Death", with 670 points required for second place, and, therefore, automatic promotion. This round will probably be even tougher- again, the top two from each of the two groups will make it through, while the twelve remaining participants will compete for four wildcard places- good luck everyone! <small>If you wish to start receiving or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send]].</small> [[User:J Milburn|J Milburn]], [[User:Fox|Fox]] and [[User:The ed17|The ed17]]<br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0055 --><br />
<br />
== Me day ==<br />
<br />
Though I know not why (or even how) it came to pass that I was selected as a "Day" recipient, thank you.<br />
--[[User:Piledhigheranddeeper|Piledhigheranddeeper]] ([[User talk:Piledhigheranddeeper|talk]]) 01:12, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RFC closed ==<br />
<br />
Hi, in your ARBCOM hat - I was looking for some feedback on on the way forward as the RFC discussion has closed concerning what we are to do with the low results returned in the checkuser and oversight elections [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Checkuser_and_oversighter_selection#.22Immediate_steps.22_poll_by_FT2 "Immediate steps" poll by FT2] and is in need of assessment and the next step, whatever that is to be, regards.[[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 23:35, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well, there's not much of a consensus there for anything is there. Considering there is a dire need for more CUs and OSs, that is indeed a conundrum. We're discussing it.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:03, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your attention. [[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 01:11, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK prep 2 ==<br />
<br />
Hi, not sure if you've started trying to compile Prep2, but I just uploaded a set there. Sorry, I think I forgot to save the Inuse template since I don't see it in the history. <i>[[User:Grondemar|&ndash;]][[User talk:Grondemar|Grondemar]]</i> 16:21, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:No biggie, I'll put mine in extra. Tks for letting me know. I am pulling a set now. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 16:22, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== True/Slant ==<br />
<br />
Hello. I'm a bit concerned about [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Did_you_know&diff=prev&oldid=371360327#Articles_created.2Fexpanded_on_June_22 the True/Slant matter], and the way it was handled. First, for reasons articulated there by a number of editors, I don't think there was any legitimate BLP issue. It is not enough for one to claim there is such an issue; that must in fact be the case. What was argued -- that the hook had no BLP issue, and most of the article underlying the hook had no BLP issue, but one sentence in the article did have a BLP issue, because that sentence said a person held a sign with a spelling error, is not IMHO a legitimate BLP issue. The BLP argument was used by the same editor in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Arrest_of_Two_New_Jersey_Men_Bound_for_Somalia an AFD discussion]. He called it a "clear BLP violation". Not one editor agreed with him. The article was kept a "Keep". Here, it is even more attenuated -- as the phrase is not even in the hook (though I obviously feel were it in the hook, the answer would be the same). The hook was approved. Gato said no decision can be made, as conversation is ongoing. Then, with most of the editors disagreeing with Gato, you come in to the still-ongoing-discussion and close it as disapproved.<br />
<br />
If Gato was wrong that the editor could not approve the discussion, it should have been approved. If he was right, because the conversation was ongoing, then you also should not be able to close the discussion as a disapprove.<br />
<br />
IMHO. Respectfully. I would ask, for the foregoing reasons, that you restore the discussion.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 00:53, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:BLP standards for DYK, since they appear on the main page, are higher than for article space. I'm not about to put that on the main page with all the ongoing concerns. That is alone is enough to disapprove it, but in addition nor will I keep it there on hold for as long as a BLPN takes.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:59, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::"All the ongoing concerns" have been demonstrated to be just so many words IMHO, and in the opinion of most of the editors in that discussion. The editor who posed the same concerns at AfD was informed by lack of any agreement that his assertions of "clear BLP violation" were just words -- not the case. I see the same here; even worse, as the hook itself lacks any such claimed violation whatsoever. The standards applied at DYK (which you refer to) are reflected at the DYKs that I pointed to. They reflect that the higher standard you refer to allows for hooks describing people as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:DYKSTATS 10 most wanted fugitives] and as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:DYKSTATS be-headers] (with pictures to boot), and these hooks are among those we boast about as having the most hits. This clearly falls well within that standard. I don't think its even close. I'm concerned as well with the double standard -- the approver cannot close the discussion because it is ongoing, but the non-approver can? I'm struggling to appreciate how that can be. Thanks for your thoughts.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:07, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I'm not changing my mind. Recall the Arabian DYK issue. That's two BLP-related DYK noms with significant concerns you've been at the center at in as many weeks.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:13, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*Yes. With the same Gato -- whose edits are discussed there--at the center of it. And the other hook was one that was added to a queue, but then you deleted from a queue--so you were also at the center of it. <br />
<br />
I fail to see how I am being treated consistently, since you promote for DYK an article that says "Montoya '''had previously been investigated in July 2006 for sexual assault that involved vaginal penetration on Nevaeh, then 23 months old'''", and that's just fine. But when I have an article that mentions '''a spelling error''', its not. I'm slightly troubled that there may be a double standard. And that you've again not indicated why you can close a conversation in mid-discussion, but an approver cannot. I would like to appeal this matter -- what would you suggest is the appropriate manner? I would like it to be reviewed by people other than those who have given us and Gato awards -- third parties who are more arms'length -- as I think we can then get the fairest result. Many thanks.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:19, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::That was not the hook used in Neveah's article, you're putting the problematic bit right in the hook. Spelling has nothing to do with it. The Arabian thread is where I learned how much the DYK BLP standard is higher is. I explained why I closed this particular nom. If you want more review, go ahead, but again, I'm not changing my mind. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:26, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*No. Respectfully--you are absolutely wrong. You apparently closed the True/Slant discussion without reading the hooks. --[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:31, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Totally untrue. Let me elaborate on one thing I said above about ongoing BLPN, I'm not putting an article with a BLPN up as DYK hook, not even with that alt hook. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:31, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I feel we must be speaking different languages. You, above, said "That was not the hook used in Neveah's article, ''you're putting the problematic bit right in the hook''." Focusing on the ''True/Slant'' hook(s), for the moment, there was no BLP problem with the hook(s). One was only even claimed (without support at the AfD, and without consensus support at the DyK discussion) ''as to the underlying article''. But that's certainly not the standard applied at DyK, as is evident in not only your DYK where the underlying article speaks of alleged vaginal penetration of a 23-month-old, but in any number of others which (as yours) speak of things perhaps slightly more unspeakable than a spelling error. Nor have you stated what the standard is, or where it is written.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:42, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Move along. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:52, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*I'm not sure what that means. I had thought we had a misunderstanding, and sought to clarify. You seem to be indicating that you are not interested in responding to my request for clarification. I had thought that under wp:admin, it was the least I could expect, especially as you seemed to confuse whether the True/Slant hook(s) had a putative BLP violation. I gather you are not inclined to do so.<br />
<br />
Just so I'm clear, my concerns at this point are as follows. <br />
#I don't think there is a legitimate BLP concern, for the reasons stated by me and others, both in the two DYK threads and at the AfD. <br />
#I don't feel there is any "higher level DYK" concern in these two hooks, as evidenced by a) the level of DYK concern about underlying articles evidenced elsewhere, b) the level of DYK concern about hooks that were far more negative about living persons, c) the fact that nobody has indicated why a ''spelling error'' in an underlying article violates such higher standard, and d) the fact that nobody has articulated precisely what that higher standard is, and where it is reflected. <br />
#I'm concerned that Gato is applying a higher standard to my DYKs than is being applied to others. <br />
#I'm concerned that you are doing the same. <br />
#I'm concerned that after my first DYK was put in queue by the editor who pulled it out, you reverted him, and now after an approving editor is reverted ''on the basis that conversation is ongoing'', you disapprove the hook ''even though conversation is ongoing''. <br />
#You appear disinclined to respond to my efforts to learn where that standard is stated, what the standard is, and what I am missing in the comparison between the True/Slant hook and your hook -- which had a much more BLP-sensitive accusation in it.<br />
<br />
Obviously, these issues are more than DYK or BLP by themselves can handle, and I think it best not to separate them. I would like to proceed in a manner that is agreeable with you, if possible. To keep the discussion centralized, do you think that AN/I would be the best place to go? Or RFC? Not necessarily as the final level, but as the next level?--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:58, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I've explained myself, you're not listening we're going in circles. Move along. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:00, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*I'll move along, as you suggest. But just to be clear -- I've articulated above just where you have failed to explain yourself. IMHO, of course. I won't repeat the items, as they are delineated clearly enough above, and I don't wish to trouble you. I gather you have no view as to the best reviewing forum.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 02:11, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== User groups ==<br />
<br />
Hi. Could you recover Brandmeister's user rights for this alternate account of mine? CU may endorse IP match. [[User:Twilight Chill|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#2F4D92">'''Twilight'''</span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#6082B6">'''chill'''</span>]] [[User talk:Twilight Chill|''t'']] 19:17, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Done. CU confirmed.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:27, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::See [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard&oldid=369565717#Unique_CU_and_Rename_request this for the record] <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:36, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Prep Extra ==<br />
<br />
Sorry if I cut you off in editing that template. I forgot to finish it and came back to fill in the remaining spots not really knowing that you were already on it :)--[[user:White Shadows|<font style="color:#191970">'''White Shadows'''</font>]] <sup>[[user talk:White Shadows|<font style="color:#DC143C">'''There goes another day'''</font>]]</sup> 22:54, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's okay. No problem. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:55, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks ;)--[[user:White Shadows|<font style="color:#191970">'''White Shadows'''</font>]] <sup>[[user talk:White Shadows|<font style="color:#DC143C">'''There goes another day'''</font>]]</sup> 22:57, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[Daniel Lambert]] for [[WP:DYK|Did you know?]] ==<br />
<br />
You seem currently busy editing. I updated the phrasing of the article about [[Daniel Lambert]] to "[[corrections officer|prison warder]] ('[[gaol]] keeper')", to avoid ambiguity.<br />
<br />
This change should be done on the QUEUE for DYK, imho, but I don't know how. <br />
<br />
(I thought Lambert was a [[association football]] ([[soccer]]) [[Goalkeeper (association football)|goal-keeper]], which is exactly what Wikipedia suggests if you search for [[gaol keeper]]!) <br />
<br />
Thanks, [[User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz|Kiefer.Wolfowitz]] ([[User talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz|talk]]) 23:24, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:And I've undone it; please don't make daft edits like this. A gaol keeper has nothing in common with either a prison warder or a "corrections officer" (whatever that is) other than both working in custodies of some kind.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 23:28, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It seems clear this guy ran a prison. Use whatever term for that you guys like. FYI, "corrections officer" is a modern day US term for someone that keeps an eye on prison/jail inmates, which Lambert does seem to have done. I've fixed the queue hook so that gaol no longer goes to a redirect but directly to [[prison]].<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:44, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::A gaol keeper ''owned'' a gaol (not a prison, which in this period is a hard-labour institution rather than a town lock-up) and took a per-prisoner fee from the local town or sheriff. All an eighteenth-century gaol keeper has is common with a modern-day prison warder is that they both worked in a place where people are locked up.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 23:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Then I'd say gaol needs its own article or a section in [[prison]] <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:57, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::It's a problematic one; "gaol" today ''is'' the British-English word for "prison" (the labour-camps no longer exist), and that's the sense in which most people will be searching for it. We do have an (very unsatisfactorily-titled) article on the old-style gaols and bridewells at [[Village lock-up]], but that needs a huge cleanup; it can't be moved to "Lock-up" because "lock-up" itself ''also'' has a new meaning in the present-day English system (the cells in police stations where recently-arrested people are kept). <br />
<br />
:::::The problem is that the only people regularly working on 18th-19th century England are myself and Slim, and we both have a limited amount of time on our hands; plus, policing and prisons are one field where Wikipedia's coverage is massively skewed towards the US (that [[prison warden]] article doesn't even ''mention'' the rest of the world), so the "obvious" links often point to wildly misleading things on US posts or buildings with the same name but completely different functions.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 00:10, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Hmm, that is problematic.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:11, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::What's really ironic is that the US split from Britain before the 1839 restructuring of the British penal system, and thus preserved the gaol/prison distinction; [[Prison]] includes a long section on [[Prison#Jails in the United States|Jails in the United States]] which explains the difference perfectly, but obviously can't be used here because it's not in the US...&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 00:24, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK : [[Recaredo Santos Tornero]] ==<br />
<br />
Hi. I recall having a DYK in the past but I don't remember the process. My DYK for [[Recaredo Santos Tornero]] has already been verified. How much does it takes to be taken to the queue? Thanks in advance! :-) [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] <sup>[[User talk:Diego Grez|let's talk]]</sup> 15:54, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I tend to focus the older noms as most people focus on the newer ones. I do so as those people have been waiting longer to see theirs on the main page. Yours was only posted and verified yesterday and there's still stuff waiting from late June. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 16:03, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Ah, OK then. :) --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] <sup>[[User talk:Diego Grez|let's talk]]</sup> 16:13, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK request ==<br />
<br />
The hook in the prep area for [[Copano, Texas]] also links [[Copano Bay]]. I recently rewrote the Copano Bay article, which now qualifies for DYK because it was over a 5x expansion discounting the copyright violation and unreferenced nonsense previously on the page. Could it be possible to bold the link to Copano Bay on the hook to create a double nomination hook?--[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] ([[User talk:William S. Saturn|talk]]) 08:05, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Based on prose size that's not even a 3x expansion (2078 to 5466). And I'm not seeing the copyright thing you mention, but I'm not totally awake yet ;-) Maybe ask Gatoclass or Materialscientist about this. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 10:04, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It was a complete rewrite, so it basically went from 0 to 5466.--[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] ([[User talk:William S. Saturn|talk]]) 16:46, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Now I see it. Done. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 20:16, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Thank you very much.--[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] ([[User talk:William S. Saturn|talk]]) 20:24, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== ''The Wikipedia Signpost'': 5 July 2010 ==<br />
<br />
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"><br />
{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/{{#switch: 1<br />
| 1 = 2010-07-05<br />
| 2 = Volume 6, Issue 27<br />
| 3 = 2010-06-28<br />
| 4 = 2010-07-12<br />
}}}}<br />
</div><br />
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">'''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single|Single-page]] &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] &middot; [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) 16:19, 6 July 2010 (UTC)</div><br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0056 --><br />
<br />
== Re: Happy Me Day ==<br />
<br />
Many thanks for this, Rlevse. I've been having a stressful time lately for reasons unconnected with Wikipedia, and your award really made me smile. I am awed to have been chosen. Regards, [[User:Espresso Addict|Espresso Addict]] <small>([[User talk:Espresso Addict|talk]])</small> 16:58, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks and you're welcome. Glad it helped in other ways too. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 17:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Email 7-8-10 ==<br />
<br />
Hello,<br />
<br />
I just corresponded with you via email. I would like to go ahead with your suggestion. Please email me if you have any questions.<br />
<br />
Thank you <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Piccol13|Piccol13]] ([[User talk:Piccol13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piccol13|contribs]]) 01:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
:For the record that was a random rename request. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:03, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
Yes, thank you <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:As8q34wipo|As8q34wipo]] ([[User talk:As8q34wipo|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/As8q34wipo|contribs]]) 01:04, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
:Done.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
not to be a pest but i still see there are a couple lines that read "undid revision by piccol 13" is this changeable? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Piccol13|Piccol13]] ([[User talk:Piccol13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piccol13|contribs]]) 01:06, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
::Nope.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
ok, thank you <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Piccol13|Piccol13]] ([[User talk:Piccol13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piccol13|contribs]]) 01:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
<br />
== User stats, editors and outing prevention ==<br />
<br />
Hello<br />
<br />
I have a few questions. Are there stat code I could put on my talk page that would be similar to yours? I also like your user page, and I suspect that it was not entirely written in Wikipedia's online edit page as it is so complex. Did you use an external editor? I've always had trouble finding a resource to learn Wikicode. Is there any external WYSIWYG editor for editing wiki with a GUI interface? I've read the Wiki page about external editors and it doesn't seem like there are any good alternatives to the online editor or Microsoft Word. My last question about outing. I've changed my user name a while ago after I was outed. I since changed my user name, but I've noticed that some of my edits in the talk/discussion pages still have my RL name. So I had broken rule 1, 5, and 7. Should I just make a new account? Can I transfer edits and still be a verified user or whatnot?<br />
<br />
Thanks [[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 01:57, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:For the stats, ask [[User:Rjanag]]. For the wikicode, ask [[User:Jack Merridew]]. I did not write my own user page code. Renaming only changes contribs and user pages. It won't change edit summaries, your name in talk page text, etc. You could make a new account as long as you cease using all prior accounts, including Hmm... . I can rename you but that will move Hmm... edits to the new name. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I already renamed, but my talk pages still use the old RL name. I guess I can just start a new account as I have <200 edits. <br />
{{tb|StephenBuxton}}</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rjanag&diff=372602506User talk:Rjanag2010-07-09T16:19:02Z<p>Hmm...: /* Stats */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>{{User:Rjanag/Archivenav}}<br />
<center>Click <span class="plainlinks">[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rjanag&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Rjanag/Fun&preloadtitle=You+are+so+great here]</span> to leave me a message saying I'm great, or <span class="plainlinks">[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rjanag&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Rjanag/Nofun&preloadtitle=You+are+just+terrible here]</span> to leave me a message saying I'm terrible.<br/>'''Click <span class="plainlinks">[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rjanag&action=edit&section=new here]</span> to leave me any other kind of message.<br/>Please sign your message by typing <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> after it.'''</center><br />
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bgcolor=<br />
type=fulltext<br />
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== [[July 2009 Ürümqi riots]] ==<br />
<br />
Hey, that's great its at FAC, nice work! :) To be honest, I don't have opinion on the flag use - I added the reactions as they came in and flags made it easier as is the case with many other articles, so reading your comment I agree it makes it easier visually, rather than a load of text. But noting the other users concerns, it would make sense to either change them to the "link alt" thing. Bolding is fine but I think I prefer the first option, though I'm happy with either outcome. Sorry I'm not much use, I'm not really familiar with Wikipedia policies in this respect! [[User:Midway|Midway]] ([[User talk:Midway|talk]]) 23:50, 17 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*As only admins can do this, can you please set up an {{tl|editnotice}} and eject the stuff which is currently seen at the top of the article when in edit mode? Cheers. [[User:Ohconfucius|<span style="color:Black;font:bold 8pt kristen itc;text-shadow:cyan 0.3em 0.3em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Ohconfucius</span>]] [[User talk:Ohconfucius|<sup>¡digame!</sup>]] 04:43, 18 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
**Good idea, I'll get to it right away. <b class="Unicode">[[User:Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;<small><sup>[[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|contribs]]</sub></small> 05:13, 18 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
***fix "titlesof" to "titles of" :) [[User:Seb az86556|Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556]] <sup>[[User_talk:Seb_az86556|> haneʼ]]</sup> 05:24, 18 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Was it you who changed the italicisation of BBC News, etc? If so, was it at the prompting of any FAC comment? AFAIK, italics are usually reserved for traditional (ie paper) journals etc. [[User:Ohconfucius|<span style="color:Black;font:bold 8pt kristen itc;text-shadow:cyan 0.3em 0.3em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Ohconfucius</span>]] [[User talk:Ohconfucius|<sup>¡digame!</sup>]] 01:34, 22 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Not sure. I changed all instances of BBC News, etc., to {{para|work}} (from {{para|publisher}} or {{para|agency}}) because that seemed to be what [[Template:cite news]] suggested. Based on my reading of it, it sounded like {{para|agency}} is only supposed to be used for the agency that wrote and supplied the article (i.e., it's sort of a replacement for {{para|author}}) and generally only when that differs from the newspaper/website where we found it (for example, a ''China Daily'' article that says the source is Xinhua, or something on ABC news that says the source is AP). Anyway, long story short, the italicization is probably a result of that change. <br />
::Of course, I haven't been working with this template for a long time so perhaps that is not the consensus on how things should be used. But that's what the documentation makes it sound like, so if the consensus is different we should probably update the documentation. <b class="IPA">[[User:Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;<small><sup>[[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|contribs]]</sub></small> 01:57, 22 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Yes, '|work=' does italicise. I'll go and sort them out. [[User:Ohconfucius|<span style="color:Black;font:bold 8pt kristen itc;text-shadow:cyan 0.3em 0.3em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Ohconfucius</span>]] [[User talk:Ohconfucius|<sup>¡digame!</sup>]] 02:11, 22 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==July 2009 Ürümqi riots info for Chinese views==<br />
Sorry about not getting back to you sooner. I didn't do much wiki editing over the break, but I've been doing way too much eding for the Haiti earthquake articles over the last week. I put together some info that could be used on this temporary page [[User:David_Straub/urumqiriotsedit]]. I think the main problem with the Urumqi riots at the moment is that it includes almost no information concerning government claims that the riots were orchestrated by a terrorist separatist group in Xinjiang. I don't believe the claims of the government, but most Chinese do. I think that adding one section that explains the views of the government by using articles from mouthpiece sources such as the China Daily would both informative and at least alleviate some of the concerns of Chinese that their views be heard. But I won't worry that this is endorsing their views. I think it is just more likely to reveal how ridiculous their claims are. Review what I put together and let me know what you think/want to do with it. I'm a little busy right now, so if you want to add some of the text to the main article, feel free to do so.<br />
<br />
Actually, I down loaded an pirated copy of Colin Legerton's book, but I didn't read it yet. He's in CEUS. I took a class with him last year.<br />
<br />
Take care. [[User:David Straub|David Straub]] ([[User talk:David Straub|talk]]) 20:49, 18 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for putting this together. To be honest, right now it looks like most of that information is more appropriate in the [[East Turkestan Islamic Movement]] article, as most of it is about ETIM and the history of ETIM rather than its putative involvement in the riots, and many of the China Daily/Xinhua articles you found don't actually say much about the riots beyond what's already in the WP article:<br />
:*[http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-07/18/content_8445811.htm Xinjiang riot hits regional anti-terror nerve] just says that WUC might be affiliated with ETIM. (And that statement is sourced to Rohan Gunarata, about whom I remember Gardner Bovingdon had some titillating things to say ;) ). Other than the WUC-ETIM connection, it has little to say about the July riots.<br />
:*[http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-07/07/content_8389647.htm World Uyghur Congress behind Xinjiang violence: expert] Just says that WUC instigated the riot, which is already detailed in the WP article (mostly in the second paragraph of the "immediate causes" section). I recall there used to be more about this in the article (I think there was a whole paragraph on stuff like the "something big will happen" phone conversation, or whatever <small>(update: after some digging, it looks like I [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_riots&diff=311953908&oldid=311948936 removed] the "do something big" because the sentence it was in was plagiarized, and I never got around to re-adding it)</small>), and it was gradually trimmed down as time gave us better perspective on all of it. This particular China Daily piece would be a useful reference to add to the section, but I don't think it has a lot of actual new content that needs to be added.<br />
:*[http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2009-07/16/content_8434355.htm Urumqi riots part of plan to help Al-Qaida] Says that the riots were instigated by separatists and that WUC is affiliated with Al-Qaeda. The first point is already in the article; the second can be added.<br />
:*[http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009xinjiangriot/2009-07/15/content_8428724.htm Al-Qaeda threatens Chinese abroad]: covered in the International Reactions section<br />
:<b class="IPA">[[User:Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;<small><sup>[[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|contribs]]</sub></small> 21:07, 18 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Made some [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_riots&action=historysubmit&diff=338622641&oldid=338618939 additions], mostly of the terrorist connection stuff (since I think the rest of the stuff is either already covered, or more appropriate in the ETIM article which is now linked from this section). To be honest, for most of the summer I was pretty much ignoring the terrorism stuff because POV-pushers repeatedly trying to add the article to "Terrorism" and "Terrorist attacks" categories were leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Looking back now, it does look like you're correct to point out that some of that has gotten left out of the article, but at the same time I think there's only so much that can be said (essentially "the government says the riots were premeditated by terrorists and they're connected with international terrorist networks) and I don't think a whole section can be made out of it without repeating ourselves a lot. (Or becoming a mouthpiece for the crazy speculative stuff that was going on in forums in July, like "the rioters had sneakers on so they must have been PLANNING to riot"). <b class="IPA">[[User:Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;<small><sup>[[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|contribs]]</sub></small> 21:27, 18 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::The article looks much better. Good job. I think the material added does balance out the article. We don't have to respect the views of the Chinese government and most Chinese, but it is important that their views are at least represented.[[User:David Straub|David Straub]] ([[User talk:David Straub|talk]]) 02:37, 22 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Thanks. I agree that it looks better, and I appreciate your taking the effort to find that material (and to press me to get it cleaned up!). Best, <b class="IPA">[[User:Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;<small><sup>[[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|contribs]]</sub></small> 02:44, 22 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[July 2009 Ürümqi riots]] (Vmenkov)==<br />
<br />
Thanks for the invitation to comment on that article, but, after reading it, I don't think I can suggest any meaningful improvement or offer any meaningful criticism. <br />
<br />
Well, OK, there is this one sentence, with a reference to a paper by Dru Gladney: "China's minority policy treats Uyghurs as a 'national minority' rather than an indigenous group." I am sure Dr. Gladney's paper (which I did not look at) probably explains what is meant by these words - he is a major writer on these issues, after all. But to a casual reader this statement sounds rather cryptic. I think that to an average person an "indigenous group" simply ''is'' an "ethnic minority" that is officially recognized as having a long-term association with a certain geographic area, and is officially granted certain special rights on account of that association. One would think that the (official) status of the ''Weiwu'er minzu'' in PRC -- with the [[Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region|XUAR]] on the maps, a 维吾尔民族简史 publsihed, an official bilingualism of sorts, and the policy of appointing members of the "[[titular nationality]]" to the (possibly figurehead) leadership positions in the region -- makes them just as "officially indigenous" to the region as the [[Nisga'a]] are to the [[Nass River]] Valley or the [[Buryats]] to [[Buryatia]]. So if I were to write this, I would perhaps try to explain what Gladney's dichotomy means.<br />
<br />
Thinking of it, the preceding sentence "Uyghurs believe their ancestors were indigenous to the area, whereas government policy considers present-day Xinjiang to have belonged to China since the Han Dynasty", with its "whereas", implies a contradiction of the two point of views, even if it does not explicitly say that there is one. I certainly can imagine some kind of 维吾尔民族简史 talking about 我国维吾尔民族 happily living in the area in 100 BC (or wherever), in such-and-such commandery of the [[Western Han Dynasty]] empire... <br />
<br />
Please feel free to ignore these comments, or to move them to an appropriate talk page elsewhere.<br />
<br />
On an unrelated issue: could you insert proper Uyghur letters into [[Musa Sayrami]], [[Yaqub Beg]], [[Afaq Khoja]], and [[Muzat River]], sometimes when/if you have a chance? Official bilingualism or not, my Atlas of Xinjiang certainly does not have any 少数民族文字 in it! [[User:Vmenkov|Vmenkov]] ([[User talk:Vmenkov|talk]]) 12:05, 26 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:That's a good point, it is a very complex paper, and I've kind of taken the sentence out of context (I was trying to avoid giving Gladney too much weight by going into a ton of detail on it). I'll try to see if I can explain it better&mdash;it's always tough to strike a balance between brevity and clarify!<br />
:By the way, I've had a go at the Uyghur names. Some require a bit of guesswork, since Romanizations of Uyghur are not consistent throughout history (for example, the "a" in "Muzat River" could be either ئا or ئە, which in [[Uyghur Latin Yéziqi|ULY]] are written ''a'' and ''e'' respectively but have often just both been written ''a''). <s>The only one I couldn't figure out just yet is Musa Sayrami (it could just be that the macrons are confusing me, but also it's a pretty old name), so I might have to ask a friend for help with that one.</s> <b class="IPA">[[User:Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;<small><sup>[[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|contribs]]</sub></small> 17:28, 26 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Thanks a lot for Syrami and others! I was surprised to see that for [[Muzat River|Muza(r)t]] there are two spellings - with and without an ''r'' - in Uyghur as well; I thought it was an artefact of careless transcriptions. And there is even an interwiki, [[:ug:مۇزات دەرياسى]] - of course, to a perfectly empty page! [[User:Vmenkov|Vmenkov]] ([[User talk:Vmenkov|talk]]) 01:16, 27 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Hm, you are probably right then. I pretty much just guessed Uyghur names based on the Latin transcriptions and on the Chinese, which often (but not always) are derived from the Uyghur in a more or less systematic way. I hadn't even noticed the interwiki. But now that you've pointed that out, I corrected the Muzat transcription to match what's in the interwiki, which is more reliable. <b class="IPA">[[User:Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;<small><sup>[[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|contribs]]</sub></small> 01:58, 27 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Does [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_riots&diff=340623210&oldid=340622156 this] help clarify the Gladney quote? <b class="IPA">[[User:Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;<small><sup>[[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|contribs]]</sub></small> 00:03, 29 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Thanks; I guess it makes a bit more sense now: it implies to the reader that (according to Gladney, at least) recognizing an ethnic group as an "indigenous" one would require the transfer of land ownership /land control to a governing body specifically representing that ethnic group (and not just linguistic/cultural autonomy, availability of bilingual education, affirmative action, etc within the ethnic group's traditional territory). In other words, no [[Nisga'a Final Agreement|Nisga'a Treaty]], or even [[Gwaii Haanas National Park Reserve and Haida Heritage Site|Gwaii Haanas National Park]] for the Uyghurs. (One can wonder how common this kind of recognition is world-wide, outside of the US and Canadian Indian bands that have appropriate treaties with their respective federal governments. E.g. Basques are certainly "indigenous" to the Basque Country, and the region has a high degree of autonomy, with its government actively promoting the Basque language and culture. But I am pretty sure that any Spanish citizen residing in the region, regardless of ethnicity, has equal right to purchase land, or to vote for / be elected to local governments controlling the land use... But in any event, such a discussion would be a topic for the [[Indigenous peoples]] article, and not for the article in question). [[User:Vmenkov|Vmenkov]] ([[User talk:Vmenkov|talk]]) 02:42, 30 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== FAC-thought (Urumqi-riots)==<br />
<br />
I'm thinking... just in case the FAC goes through... We're gonna have to find a picture that's suitable for the front-page... I don't think any of the ones we have right now are good for that... (unless you want the damn map, but that'd be kinda cheesy...) [[User:Seb az86556|Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556]] <sup>[[User_talk:Seb_az86556|> haneʼ]]</sup> 03:41, 30 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Hm... I bet we could grab a screenshot from Ccyber's video? <b class="IPA">[[User:Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;<small><sup>[[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|contribs]]</sub></small> 04:18, 30 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Well... there is this: [[:File:WLMQ Cellphone screenshots 2v1.jpg]]. Or was that deemed too extreme or inappropriate for some reason? [[User:Seb az86556|Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556]] <sup>[[User_talk:Seb_az86556|> haneʼ]]</sup> 04:28, 30 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I don't think it's inappropriate; mainly we just removed it when the video became available, since the video is the better option. (I don't know if they've ever used video for the TFA image, though.) All in all, I think something from that video is the only thing in the article that would really work. For example, the picture of the APCs in September looks good and rioty, but it's not from the actual riots (and we wouldn't want to be accused of making the same sort of flubs that people made in July showing pictures of the wrong riots), plus I think there would be an anti-China POV issue with showing a picture of the crackdown and not showing a picture of the riots. The picture of Kadeer, of course, is a no go since she's just the scapegoat (I'm sure the PRC government would be overjoyed, though, if we put that picture on the front page with the riots article :P). And yeah, other than that all that's really left is the map, and as you say it would be a bit cheesy...plus I think Raul doesn't like using flags and maps.<br />
:::I think the screenshots already uploaded are a bit small, since it's really four crammed into one. But we could probably hold a brief discussion on what part of the video we want to take, and then have a tech-y person get a higher-resolution screenshot of that. (I don't think we need to worry about taking care of that, though, until the FAC is over :) ) <b class="IPA">[[User:Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;<small><sup>[[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|contribs]]</sub></small> 04:35, 30 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::True. Just putting this into one more brain before it escapes mine :P [[User:Seb az86556|Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556]] <sup>[[User_talk:Seb_az86556|> haneʼ]]</sup> 05:21, 30 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Pick a frame, and I'll get you a high-res image. Just give me the time in milliseconds. :) --<span style="border:1px solid yellow;padding:1px;">[[User:benlisquare|<font style="color:#FFFF00;background:red;">'''&nbsp;李博杰&nbsp;'''</font>]]</span> | <small>—[[User talk:benlisquare|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Benlisquare|contribs]] [[Special:EmailUser/User:Benlisquare|email]]</small> 05:23, 30 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Report on Laogai Enterprises ==<br />
Hi Rjanag, <br />
How can [http://laogai.org/sites/default/files/pdf/lrf_enterprise_ads_report.pdf this] be used for Wikipedia?<br />
Kind regards, <br />
[[User:Sarcelles|Sarcelles]] ([[User talk:Sarcelles|talk]]) 16:54, 28 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[East Asian languages#Syntax]] ==<br />
<br />
I have added a Vietnamese entry to match the other three examples given, but I have no idea on how to explain which variant characters are used, and how many have limited Unicode support. There are obviously characters that are more preferable to others, but most would be unable to have them displayed correctly. Do you have any idea on how I can get around this? My meddling can be found at [[User:Benlisquare/Sandbox2#Viet]] if you are interested. Cheers, --<span style="border:1px solid yellow;padding:1px;">[[User:benlisquare|<font style="color:#FFFF00;background:red;">'''&nbsp;李博杰&nbsp;'''</font>]]</span> | <small>—[[User talk:benlisquare|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Benlisquare|contribs]] [[Special:EmailUser/User:Benlisquare|email]]</small> 05:10, 11 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Urumqi riots ==<br />
<br />
It's infuriating, this linkrot. The lack of archiving by those archiving sites we use, also. If we kept copies of the articles on our hard disk, at least we can still refer to them although they will no longer be available publicly. [[User:Ohconfucius|<span style="color:Black;font:bold 8pt kristen itc;text-shadow:cyan 0.3em 0.3em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Ohconfucius</span>]] [[User talk:Ohconfucius|<sup>¡digame!</sup>]] 00:58, 18 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:That's what I've been thinking too. The "Missing Link" article I was able to find (half of) cached on Google, and saved it while I still could...that article in particular is cited a lot so I figured it would be good to keep. One of the other dead ones I couldn't find on Google. I've tried to archive some of the pages using webcite, but I'm not sure if they all worked (one worked when I tried it out, another sat around loading for hours and never did open); webcite would be better than just saving them to the hard drive, since then readers can get it too, but I'm not sure how reliable it is. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 01:26, 18 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I think webcite is good enough, if the coverage is there. Anyway, it's better than nothing, and I'm thankful its around. I've seen it used extensively in some articles, such as [[Question Time British National Party controversy]]. [[User:Ohconfucius|<span style="color:Black;font:bold 8pt kristen itc;text-shadow:cyan 0.3em 0.3em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Ohconfucius</span>]] [[User talk:Ohconfucius|<sup>¡digame!</sup>]] 04:02, 18 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pardon ==<br />
<br />
Regarding [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Language&diff=prev&oldid=359270753]: nerdiness deserves praise, not pardon! Actually that quote is what I thought of when I read his question, too. — [[User:Knowledge Seeker|Knowledge Seeker]] [[User talk:Knowledge Seeker|দ]] 17:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Law of Malta ==<br />
<br />
Fair enough. [[User:Zweifel|Zweifel]] ([[User talk:Zweifel|talk]]) 22:02, 2 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Was [[Abdul Haq (ETIM)]] the same as [[Abdul Haq (Uyghur camp leader)]]? ==<br />
<br />
You [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Iqinn&diff=prev&oldid=359557546 asked User Iqinn whether] [[Abdul Haq (ETIM)]] was the same as [[Abdul Haq (Uyghur camp leader)]]. <br />
<br />
[[Thomas Joscelyn]] has asserted that [[Abdul Haq (ETIM)]] was the same individual who lead the Uyghur camp, and that he was the manager of a Uyghur guest house.<br />
To the best of my knowledge, all claims that the two individuals are the same can be traced to Joscelyen.<br />
<br />
I've wondered whether we should regard Josceleyn as a [[WP:RS]].<br />
He is not, to the best of my knowledge, a professional commentator. <br />
He is not, to the best of my knowledge, an academic who has studied politics, or military matters, or intelligence, or the law.<br />
He is not, to the best of my knowledge, someone who was a respected columnist or journalist, prior to starting to blog on the GWOT.<br />
He is not, to the best of my knowledge, a former intelligence officer.<br />
<br />
It seems to me that he is just some guy who has taken the time to read the same documents I have. On a personal level I don't consider his conclusions any more reliable than I regard my own. Frankly, if I was a blogger I would blog in an intellectually honest manner. I'd never simply leave off from informing my readers of exculpatory information. Joscelyn does this all this time. His claim that the two Abdul Haq(s) are one individual being a case in point. While he informs his readers that some of Uyghurs reported their camp leader was named Abdul Haq he neglects to inform them that the Ugyhurs say he was killed during the American aerial bombardment, back in 2001.<br />
<br />
On the other hand, some legitimate journalists do cite him in their articles. And he has been invited to testify before at least one US Congressional committee.<br />
<br />
Abdul Haq is clearly a very common name. On a personal level I suspect that the several hundred, or several thousance, Uyghur exiles in the region probably included many individuals known as Abdul Haq.<br />
<br />
Intelligence analysts have described the ETIM as a well-organized and dangerous militant group.<br />
If [[Abdul Haq (Uyghur camp leader)]] was really the 2nd in command of the ETIM, then it is hard to understand how the ETIM could have been as dangerous as intelligence analysts feared.<br />
How dangerous could the group have been if the ETIM's 2nd in command, and those he was leading, were armed with just a single AK-47?<br />
<br />
So should [[Abdul Haq (ETIM)]] say he also lead the Uyghur camp in Nangarhar? IMO it should certainly not assert this as a fact. It should not assert this as a claim of US intelligence analysts. I have no objection to the [[Abdul Haq (ETIM)]] article stating that Thomas Joscelyn<br />
asserts he also lead the Nangarhar camp. <br />
<br />
If this assertion is included, attributed to Josceylen, should it note that he was reported KIA in 2009, while the Nangarhar camp leader was reported KIA in 2001?<br />
I dunno. [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 23:05, 2 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Robert Krentz ==<br />
<br />
I suggested some alternative hooks for the [[Template_talk:Did_you_know#Robert_Krentz | Robert Krentz DYK]] nomination. Would love it if you'd take another look. :-) <br />
Thanks! —[[User:Rnickel|Rnickel]] ([[User talk:Rnickel|talk]]) 18:16, 4 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Template:Vowels with audio ==<br />
Thanks for the fixes. I saw the error with the link to .ogg, and found you fixed that too. -[[User:Stevertigo|Stevertigo]] ([[User:Stevertigo/Log|w]] | [[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/Stevertigo|e]]) 04:01, 6 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== IPA article ==<br />
I agree with the first revert, as I did not pay attention to what code came through subclusion. I filed a bug recently, https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23388 regarding hatnote issues.<br />
<br />
I agree with the second revert, though I will point out that the section does need expanding. Please see also [http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2010-April/106290.html recent discussion on wikien about IPA], in particular, comments negative toward IPA and, by default, in support of that [[Wikipedia:Pronunciation respelling key]]. <br />
PS: The issue with phonology vs. pronunciation is one of excess information, which is why I think there is resistance to IPA per se.<br />
-[[User:Stevertigo|Stevertigo]] ([[User:Stevertigo/Log|w]] | [[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/Stevertigo|e]]) 04:34, 6 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The Arena (MMA) Page Most Definitely Not Spam ==<br />
<br />
Rjanag,<br />
<br />
Please explain in detail why you think this page is spam. You recently deleted it saying it was blatant advertising. You are incorrect in this assumption. The page accurately describes a noteworthy gym in one of the fastest growing sports in the world. If this page is spam, then every other page describing all the other noteworthy mixed martial arts facilities described in Wikipedia should be described as spam as well and also deleted. <br />
<br />
If you have suggestions for improvement, then kindly provide them on a page that is completely factual. Otherwise, please do not try to re-delete the page or I will think you have some personal bias against the gym specifically. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mmasource|Mmasource]] ([[User talk:Mmasource|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mmasource|contribs]]) 08:56, 6 May 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
:Please actually read the links that have been given to you. The reason I nominated the page was because you provided no '''[[WP:RS|third-party sources]]''' to explain why the gym meets Wikipedia's '''[[WP:N|notability requirements]]'''. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 14:51, 6 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Dark_Knight_%28film%29&action=historysubmit&diff=360530189&oldid=360469077 Last edit] of [[The Dark Knight (film)]] ==<br />
<br />
Why did you undo my edit of [[The Dark Knight (film)]]? Your edit made the page say, "The Dark Knight is a 2008 '''superhero''' directed and co-written by Christopher Nolan." I changed it to say that it is a "2008 '''superhero film''' directed and co-written by Christopher Nolan." The movie is a "superhero film," not a "superhero.".[[User:-5-|-5-]] ([[User talk:-5-|talk]]) 18:24, 6 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Apologies, it looks like I misread the diff. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 20:22, 6 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== I Have Provided 3rd Party Sources that Meet Notability Requirements ==<br />
<br />
Rjanag,<br />
<br />
Not sure if you actually read through the updates I recently included in the page you just reverted, but there are 2 additional citations from Sherdog, the largest MMA news site in the world, and an actual newspaper article that came out last night regarding one of the fighters/trainers at The Arena. Additionally, I have included links from both Sherdog.com and Mixedmartialarts.com that list The Arena as an official team site, which is hard to do unless you are one. So kindly stop getting into an edit war and claiming there aren't 3rd party verification when there are right on the page.<br />
<br />
Additionally, since you are the one who deleted The Arena MMA page in the first place, please read the following I wrote to another Wikipedia user who got involved in this whole deletion situation. I think if you actually take the time you read my response, as well as visit all the links I have provided in this repsonse, you will realize you are in error in attempting to delete this page. Thanks.<br />
<br />
Benlisquare,<br />
<br />
I apologize in advance if I am not following all protocols with your Talk page, but I am relatively new to Wikipedia and am not completely familiar with certain things like how to best communicate on the Talk pages and the different users who contribute to them. Since you clearly are an expert in this area, please help me correct whatever issues I need to do in the future.<br />
<br />
As far as your concerns/comments, as well as those of others, I am a bit surprised. I created the page on The Arena because I am an avid follower of MMA and The Arena is one of the fastest growing MMA teams in the country and deserves inclusion in Wikipedia on these merits. Particularly given the fact that many of the MMA teams listed in Wikipedia are no longer as notable as The Arena is because the sport is so dynamic and much of the information regarding these teams and their fighters is non-current. Also, my interest in The Arena and its fighters qualifies me as a supporter of the gym/team, not as a conflict of interest.<br />
<br />
As far as how I set up the page and what I included, I attempted to follow the format used for the other MMA team pages included in Wikipedia so The Arena MMA page would best fit in. So, if The Arena MMA page is promotional, then I imagine the other MMA team pages should be included in that category as well.<br />
<br />
As far as verification of The Arena and its athletes...<br />
<br />
1. The team is young and most newspapers do not cover much of MMA. In fact, I honestly do not think newspapers qualify as a reliable source for MMA info as much is reformatted from other sources. However, having said that, you can find recent mention of The Arena and its team members like Olympic Silver Medalist Stephen Abas at the following locations.<br />
<br />
http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/04/07/1887820/ex-dog-abas-sets-mma-dates-at.html<br />
<br />
http://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/article/20100506/SPORTS/5060314/Olympic-silver-medalist-Stephen-Abas-successful-in-mixed-martial-arts-debut<br />
<br />
Additionally, I have included several other online mentions of The Arena from sites that are more relevant to MMA such as:<br />
<br />
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=228200<br />
<br />
http://www.mmamania.com/2010/4/2/1402864/2004-olympic-silver-medalist<br />
<br />
http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Olympic-Silver-Medalist-Abas-Signs-with-Tachi-Palace-Fights-23624<br />
<br />
http://www.doseofmma.com/3700/rani-yahya-constrictor-bjj-hl/<br />
<br />
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/12-Questions-for-Cris-Cyborg-Santos-22251<br />
<br />
2. There are also numerous videos available online of various fighters representing The Arena during their fights, notably Diego Sanchez (who has The Arena logo on his shorts, shirt, and banner) during his most recent fight against BJ Penn on 12/12/2009, as well as Cris "Cyborg" Santos during her last Strikeforce title defense against Marloes Coenen on 1/30/2010. These fights can be found online. Additionally, the UFC Countdown Video Segment for Diego Sanchez that was aired nationally on Spike TV prior to the fight was conducted at The Arena and clearly showed The Arena in the segment. <br />
<br />
3. There are also other videos available on The Arena's website itself, as well as YouTube, from third parties such as Bad Boy Brands that show fighters such as Demian Maia (UFC) and Diego Sanchez (UFC) training at The Arena. These videos can be found here at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHEXvWGfnYA&NR=1 and: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy1VNA7YLWQ and: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx3IXyqXiLI<br />
<br />
Additionally, there are videos actually produced by The Arena that clearly show Fabricio Camoes (UFC), Rodrigo Nogueira (UFC), Rani Yahya (WEC), Royler Gracie (4x BJJ world champ), Joe Duarte (Bellator), etc. training at The Arena. These videos are located at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xrUSGWN0BA and: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_lI8tccuxw <br />
<br />
4. Finally, both mixedmartialarts.com (the official resource for all MMA fighter records) and sherdog.com (the largest, most recognized, and one of the oldest MMA sites in existence) has The Arena listed as an offical team. You can find the links here at: <br />
<br />
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=home.link and:<br />
<br />
http://www.sherdog.com/links<br />
<br />
These two sites are tightly controlled and will not allow links to team sites that are not official and recognizable.<br />
<br />
Given all this evidence that you can judge for yourself if you take the time to visit all the sites I have provided, particularly the online video locations (seeing is believing), I cannot understand how anyone could not regard The Arena MMA page as legitimate, as well as the actual gym itself. <br />
<br />
I don't know how much the Wikipedia members who commented on the legitimacy of The Arena MMA page actually know about the sport of MMA, but there is absolutely no way these types of MMA athletes would be involved with The Arena if it was not 100% legitimate and deserving of recognition. Even independent Yelp reviewers mention this fact (see here at: http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-arena-mma-san-diego<br />
<br />
Please let me know how to best improve the page if it actually needs to be improved given all the documentation I have just provided. Additionally, please share this information with the other Wikipedia members who made comments on the Talk Page as I am unsure how to communicate with everyone simulataneously. <br />
<br />
Thank You,<br />
<br />
mmasource<br />
<br />
[[User:Mmasource|Mmasource]] ([[User talk:Mmasource|talk]]) 07:35, 7 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[The Arena (MMA)]] ==<br />
<br />
Would someone be able to reply to [[User talk:Benlisquare#The Arena (MMA) Page]], and/or maybe propogate it so that everyone is aware of his post? I'll be rather knot-tied tonight, and won't have the time to respond. Regards, --<span style="border:1px solid yellow;padding:1px;">[[User:benlisquare|<font style="color:#FFFF00;background:red;">'''&nbsp;李博杰&nbsp;'''</font>]]</span> | <small>—[[User talk:benlisquare|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Benlisquare|contribs]] [[Special:EmailUser/User:Benlisquare|email]]</small> 07:53, 7 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Just realised it was on your tp as well. --<span style="border:1px solid yellow;padding:1px;">[[User:benlisquare|<font style="color:#FFFF00;background:red;">'''&nbsp;李博杰&nbsp;'''</font>]]</span> | <small>—[[User talk:benlisquare|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Benlisquare|contribs]] [[Special:EmailUser/User:Benlisquare|email]]</small> 07:54, 7 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
==Translational request==<br />
{{talkback|俠刀行|Globalization template for Battle of Frenchman's Creek}}<br />
**请帮忙，他写的内容我仅有某种程度的理解(大约懂一半)，而且我可能无法用英文回答他。你可以解释他说的话吗？还有他在条目的讨论页上的内容，也请解释给我听。--[[User:俠刀行|俠刀行]] ([[User talk:俠刀行|talk]]) 12:29, 7 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
***烦！英语维基到底没几个懂中文，这样很难沟通。终于体会到什么叫英语帝国主义了，反正以后的日子都需要靠你帮忙。 <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:俠刀行|俠刀行]] ([[User talk:俠刀行|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/俠刀行|contribs]]) 00:57, 9 May 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
===New request===<br />
告诉用户[[User:Miranda1989]]，叫他不要轻举妄动，不要擅自移除模板。我因为一时没空，无法有时间仔细查阅内容。还有，请告诉我哪里可以找到管理员(目前常上线的)，为了避免突然状况，不排除告状并封禁此人。 --[[User:俠刀行|俠刀行]] ([[User talk:俠刀行|talk]]) 09:58, 11 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:<del>Hi Rjanag - I can read the text above, so no need to provide a translation. I ask for your assistance not as a translator, but as an experienced administrator.<br />
:An individual - [[User:俠刀行|俠刀行]] - who by his own admission speaks very little English, has placed a globalization template on the article [[Battle of Frenchman's Creek]]. This was a minor battle between American forces and British forces during the [[War of 1812]] and took place on what is now the Canadian shore of the Niagara River. This event involved locally stationed British forces and American forces from the opposite side of the river - there was no global significance and therefore I see no reason for the existence of the globalization template. I've detailed reasons for removing the template on the article's talk page, and invited comments. No comments were received save for one from 俠刀行 himself demanding that it be kept, but not offering any reason. One can not globalize an issue which had no global scope.<br />
:In response to the lack of objection, I removed the template only to see 俠刀行 restore it with a demand that it not be removed again, and with the threat above (which I will view as if it were placed on my own talk page). <br />
:So, I ask you, as a wise and experienced administrator - how should I respond to a persistent user with whom I can barely communicate, who seems intent on placing a template for a reason which he does not wish to share? I will bow to your advice and offer my thanks. [[User:Miranda1989|Miranda1989]] ([[User talk:Miranda1989|talk]]) 23:03, 13 May 2010 (UTC)</del><br />
<br />
*您应该告诉这位用户（Miranda1989），他事先未经过协商就擅自移除国际化模板，这是不礼貌的。尤其是在完全没告知我的情况下，仅仅在那战役的对话页上写出长篇文字，也没考虑到我是否理解。连最基本的告知都没做，非常不好。共识是达成解决问题最基本的要求，在没有协商前也未告知他人，这样做显然有欠妥当。尤其我发现到，他对我的回应似乎置之不理，那到底谁才是"固执的使用者呢"(a persistent user)？--[[User:俠刀行|俠刀行]] ([[User talk:俠刀行|talk]]) 05:09, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* Hi Rjanag, just to throw my pennies into the ring, too... I've arrived here by way of [[Battle of Frenchman's Creek]] and [[WP:3O]]. I offered a 3O at Frenchman's Creek, which basically said "wait for Rjanag to reply". Sorry to pass the buck, but I can't see a way for this to resolved without understanding why 俠刀行 feels the tag is appropriate. Cheers, [[User:TFOWR|<b style="color:#000">TFOWR</b>]]<sup>[[User talk:TFOWR|<span style="color:#f00">propaganda</span>]]</sup> 03:17, 16 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[User:Epeefleche/Nicholas Beale]] ==<br />
<br />
[[User:Epeefleche/Nicholas Beale]], which you userfied, has been nominated for deletion at [[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Epeefleche/Nicholas Beale]]. [[User:Cunard|Cunard]] ([[User talk:Cunard|talk]]) 00:46, 9 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Maintenance Templates ==<br />
<br />
Rjanag,<br />
<br />
Just following up on this maintenance template issue. I have listed numerous 3rd party sources that should take of any issues you had with notability, verification, etc. However, now that I'm learning about Wikipedai protocol more, I'm trying to follow it as closely as possible. Is it OK to take the template down now that there have been numerous verifiable references added to the article? [[User:Mmasource|Mmasource]] ([[User talk:Mmasource|talk]]) 19:59, 10 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:No, it's not. The whole purpose of the AfD debate is to determine notability, and the very fact that there is a debate going on is enough to show that this page's notability is under dispute. You are in no position to unilaterally rule that the page is "notable" when you know that numerous editors disagree. Wait for a [[WP:consensus|consensus]] to form before taking any action on the cleanup template. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 22:55, 10 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Maintenance Template Follow-Up ==<br />
<br />
I guess I'm still a little unclear then. On my tp, you said "Please do not remove maintenance templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to The Arena (MMA), without resolving the problem that the template refers to, or giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary." I thought I clearly resolved that problem by adding numerous 3rd party verifications subsequent to WP admins viewing the article and recommending deletion bc there wasn't enough 3rd party verifications. Now there are more than a few. In fact, in reviewing the other Mixed Martial Arts team pages, I noticed I have provided more 3rd party verification sources than almost any other MMA page. Are you saying that these 3rd party verifications are not sufficient, particularly compared to the other pages in the same category. many of which use the same 3rd party verification sources i.e. sherdog.com to establish notability? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mmasource|Mmasource]] ([[User talk:Mmasource|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mmasource|contribs]]) 00:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
<br />
== Articles on Chinese mayors/deputies ? ==<br />
Hi Rjanag,<br />
<br />
would it make sense to write articles on mayors and deputies rather than labor camps? <br />
Kind regards, <br />
[[User:Sarcelles|Sarcelles]] ([[User talk:Sarcelles|talk]]) 12:03, 11 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I meant, which would be better concerning human rights. By deputies I meant members of parliament. [[User:Sarcelles|Sarcelles]] ([[User talk:Sarcelles|talk]]) 18:20, 11 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Talkback ==<br />
<br />
{{talkback|Tim1357|ts=01:28, 13 May 2010 (UTC)}}<br />
I [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tim1357&diff=361796198&oldid=361762641 responded] [[User:Tim1357|<font color="Blue" face="Arial" >Tim]]</font><font color="Red" face="Optima" >[[Special:Contributions/Tim1357|1357]]</font> <sup><font face="Times new roman" size = 2 >[[User talk:Tim1357|talk]]</font></sup> 01:28, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikipedia malamanteau controversy ==<br />
<br />
Hello, you recently speedily deleted a page I created called [[Wikipedia_malamanteau_controversy]], with the complaints, "Article about an eligible subject, which does not indicate the importance or significance of the subject (CSD A7). no independednt sources cited", however, both complaints are unmerited.<br />
<br />
First, I clearly indicated the significance of the topic, with stats directly related to its significance:<br />
<br />
"The page for Malamanteau received over 70,000 views[3] and 400[4] talk page edits within 24 hours of the creation of the page."<br />
<br />
The wording of the above sentence is a bit ham handed, sure, but that alone doesn't merit deleting the page, forget speedy deletion.<br />
<br />
Second, I also provided ''multiple'' independent sources. The Reddit page, the Askvile page, and the grok.se page are all independent from the parties involved.<br />
<br />
Thanks,<br />
[[User:The8thbit|8bit]] ([[User talk:The8thbit|talk]]) 18:44, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I linked to [[WP:Reliable sources]]. Two of those sources are forums, not reliable sources. The other is part of Wikimedia's toolserver. And per [[WP:BIG]], indiscriminate numbers (of views or edits) do not constitute notability. Wikipedia edit wars and disputes are not notable unless they become the subject of substantial coverage in [[WP:reliable sources|reliable sources]]. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 18:47, 13 May 2010 (UTC)\<br />
:::How does that meet criteria for speedy deletion? [[User:The8thbit|8bit]] ([[User talk:The8thbit|talk]]) 18:54, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I said my piece. If you disagree you can re-create the article and let it go through [[WP:AFD]], although I can assure you that it will meet an overwhelming consensus to delete (based on the reasons I just gave). If you want to waste your time with that, though, I am not going to stop you. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 18:57, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Kay. Commencing time wasting. [[User:The8thbit|8bit]] ([[User talk:The8thbit|talk]]) 18:59, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== You are just <s>terrible</s>; not really ==<br />
<br />
You are just needing to see replies on my talkpage! (couldn't resist the link) <s>{{trout}}</s> [[user talk:mono|<font color=" gold">m</font><font color=" orange">o</font><font color=" red">ɳ</font><font color=" purple">o</font>]] 00:40, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==后续事件==<br />
你还有留意到我之前的[[User talk:Rjanag#New request|翻译要求]]吗？最近又有人留言给你了(加上我也有)，要不要解决上面的争论？误会好像越来越多。 --[[User:俠刀行|俠刀行]] ([[User talk:俠刀行|talk]]) 08:23, 17 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[User:俠刀行|俠刀行]] ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rjanag<br />
<br />
As mentioned [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ARjanag&action=historysubmit&diff=362371791&oldid=362188149 above], I looked into a [[WP:3O]] request that had arisen from the use of a tag and the concerns over the use of that tag: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AThird_opinion&action=historysubmit&diff=362369449&oldid=362367829 discussion here].<br />
<br />
One of the editors has [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ATFOWR&action=historysubmit&diff=362580771&oldid=362474484 posted on my talk page].<br />
<br />
Are you able to communicate with this user? It seems clear to me that they can not understand the comment I left at the article's talk page, nor here on your talk page.<br />
<br />
Many thanks! [[User:TFOWR|<b style="color:#000">TFOWR</b>]]<sup>[[User talk:TFOWR|<span style="color:#f00">propaganda</span>]]</sup> 10:45, 17 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Proxy & Sockpuppet ==<br />
<br />
真是欲加之罪何患无辞。<br />
<br />
我使用的IP地址是我工作的里昂一家教学医院的IP地址，另外G.G.使用的是国内一家大学的IP地址。这些IP流量大，日夜不休很是很正常的，但是不是代理Proxy。<br />
<br />
GG确实是我认识的人，所以他投票的时候自己把选票划掉。应该说我们没有做过分的事情。<br />
<br />
另外牵涉到一位用户是我的一个同事，我帮助她建了她第一个条目。她不会英语，也不会来英语版，也不参与的我的条目。我们当时不知道系统自动建立了个英语版帐号。因为我的帐号比较老，英语版、法语版、汉语版都是一次一次建立的。所以我给她建立的条目加了个英语版链接。结果她的英语帐号也被封了。她根本不会来英语版，但是不知道什么时候会为了英语版的这件事情，法语版的帐号被当作马甲被封。<br />
<br />
我已经和几位管理员联系过了。有什么好说的呢？<br />
<br />
Ryulong曾经扬言可以把我的帐号封掉，没想到是这种方式。尤其讨厌的是还无缘无故牵涉别人。我自己倒也算了，只是对其他受害者感到非常不好意思。<br />
<br />
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AZHU_Yeyi&action=historysubmit&diff=352396677&oldid=352304918<br />
<br />
此外，关于上海话拼音的事情。那套输入法其实2004年就被Linux操作系统采用了。其实这套拼音的条目也是上海话的Phonology，对读者还是有意义的。什么也不用说了，管理员说不行就是不行。<br />
<br />
上海话和维语不同，不受法律保护。拼音市场的混乱对教学推广都造成困难，促使灭亡。这就是2007那次被删除的原因。你也看到了那套一点线外资料都没有的Long-short一直好好。实际确实是有人故意整这套方案。<br />
<br />
最后没有什么好说的。我只能做自己力所能及的事情。<br />
<br />
--[[Special:Contributions/83.145.72.66|83.145.72.66]] ([[User talk:83.145.72.66|talk]]) 13:09, 17 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[[User:ZHU Yeyi|ZHU Yeyi]], 你已经被封锁了。这不管我的事。 <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 01:45, 30 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hi Man ==<br />
Hi, I want to create a language.Would you help me?Be a language similar to Esperanto, but it will appeal to the East..I've started creating a few words.You can look at my English Dilyaratan page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dilyaratan --[[User:Dilyaratan|Dilyaratan]] ([[User talk:Dilyaratan|talk]]) 18:10, 20 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Sorry, but this is [[WP:NOT|not really what Wikipedia is for]]. You are welcome to work on conlangs elsewhere, but if you don't intend to work on improving Wikipedia (by editing articles, etc.) then you should not really continue using your account here. As for your request, I don't have any particular expertise in conlangs so I can't help. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 18:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Re: ==<br />
<br />
I've got university examinations in mid-June worth 70-80% of my subject marks for my four subjects... I'll be curbing my visits to Wikipedia soon. I've got all the time in the world after that. --<span style="border:1px solid yellow;padding:1px;">[[User:benlisquare|<font style="color:#FFFF00;background:red;">'''&nbsp;李博杰&nbsp;'''</font>]]</span> | <small>—[[User talk:benlisquare|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Benlisquare|contribs]] [[Special:EmailUser/User:Benlisquare|email]]</small> 10:44, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Ah, no worries. Take your time! 祝你好运 ;) <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 13:24, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Skype==<br />
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=]] You might note that at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to [[:Fort Lee High School]], also introduced some extraneous text around some numerical characters. This may be due to a combination of your browser and [[Skype]] trying to identify and highlight telephone numbers. Thank you.<!-- Template:Uw-skype -->--[[User:Rumping|Rumping]] ([[User talk:Rumping|talk]]) 23:27, 21 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Kindly asking for your help ==<br />
<br />
Today I discovered that someone moved Qing Dynasty personality Dorgon to [[Chengzong Emperor]], and does not offer any reasons for doing so. Said user did this completely out of the blue, therefore by procedural rules alone I think it's safe to move it back... however, since I don't have administrative powers, I had to come here and ask for you to kindly do this for me. I hope it's not too much trouble. :) [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 23:29, 24 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== re:[[Dorgon]] ==<br />
<br />
Then user colipon should have directed to me, he never leaved a message on my talk page or on the articles talk he just sneaked behind the table and asked for backup,so im at best just returning the favour of his rudness. One last, i only reverted one so i think you're exagerating it calling it edit warring, hope you'll gave him the same warning.--[[User:Andres rojas22|Andres rojas22]] ([[User talk:Andres rojas22|talk]]) 01:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:You have clearly taken sides, have the decency of refraining your presence from this discussion.--[[User:Andres rojas22|Andres rojas22]] ([[User talk:Andres rojas22|talk]]) 01:27, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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your biased--[[User:Andres rojas22|Andres rojas22]] ([[User talk:Andres rojas22|talk]]) 01:33, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Maybe i would have, if you hadent decided to become his strongarm--[[User:Andres rojas22|Andres rojas22]] ([[User talk:Andres rojas22|talk]]) 01:44, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Guess you couldnt leave you're boy alone--[[User:Andres rojas22|Andres rojas22]] ([[User talk:Andres rojas22|talk]]) 03:21, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Go ahead ban me, ill just think how will you explain banning a guy only cus he irritated you, some administrator you are--[[User:Andres rojas22|Andres rojas22]] ([[User talk:Andres rojas22|talk]]) 04:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:By the way, this Andres user came back, without trying to engage in discussion, and just reverted everything again, as soon as the page came off of protection. Procedurally, I believe this to be in contravention of [[WP:3RR]], so I've come to you to seek advice on what measures should be taken. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 01:18, 30 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Good call. I won't block him myself (I don't think I would be breaking any rules in doing so, but it would just give him more to complain about), but I've [[WP:AN3#User:Andres rojas22 reported by User:Rjanag (Result: )|reported him]]. Some people just don't get how this place works... <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 01:29, 30 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Hey. I was thinking of closing your [[WP:AN3#User:Andres rojas22 reported by User:Rjanag (Result: )|3RR report]], but request that you edit the complaint so it does not refer to editor maturity or use the word 'whine.' Thanks, [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 02:32, 30 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Ok, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring&diff=364956360&oldid=364952316 edited]. But if you look at this user's comments in this section, his level of maturity is quite clear. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 02:38, 30 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Thanks. Though your article revert was done as part of your admin role, and this seems OK, it is tricky that you may be in an editorial dispute with Andres on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shinbutsu_shūgō&diff=prev&oldid=364949583 another article]. This leaves me uncertain how to close the 3RR, and I may leave it for someone else. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 02:57, 30 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I don't see how that's a relevant "editorial dispute". That is an article I have never looked at before, don't care about, and don't intend to look at again. I noticed it while I was reviewing Andres' contribs just before reporting him, and undid what looked like a bad edit. Either way, even if it did mean I was in some sort of other editorial dispute with him (which I'm not&mdash;all I have spoken to Andres about so far is his behavior, never the actual content of his edits), I don't see how that precludes you from closing an AN3 report that seems pretty obvious. Are you saying you don't think Andres is blatantly edit warring? <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 03:01, 30 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I have closed the 3RR with a warning to Andres. My own preference is to avoid doing any reverts myself when handling an edit war. If somebody makes an outrageous change, there is probably someone else standing by to undo it. (Vandalism, BLP or socking would be the obvious exceptions where I would personally do the revert). [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 03:23, 30 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Xinjiang townships==<br />
A while back I began developing the townships of Xinjiang like [[Anningqu]] and it was I who requested the map of Xinijiang for pin. I wondered if you had access to sources or a list of townships. I wanted to work towards building up a coverage of Xinijang. My friend [[User:John Hill]] has done a lot of work on historical Xinjiang and the Silk Road but much modern content of townships is actually missing. Interesting region. I just hate it when people bring politics/predujices to the wikipedia place and which motivates/drives them. I seem to have encountered a misunderstanding with your friend Seb. He accused me of inserting PRC POV into the Tibet Museum article which I had not even noticed and it was genuinely innocent. This has upset me. As a result it has left me suspicious of his own political viewpoints and his reasons for developing the Urumqi riots article as he seems very politically minded and anti-PRC. It has made me question his reasons for spending so long on the article. I do hope I am wrong and that you both genuinely have no hidden issues. The article is very good and seems to be neutral thanks to the large scale collaboration on it but what I said about the coverage in western media being less I think is worthy of mentioning.[[User:Dr. Blofeld| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">'''''Dr. Blofeld'''''</font>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Dr. Blofeld| <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat</font></font color> ]]</sup> 18:26, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Glad to hear that the article was not written by an Uyghur sympathizer. . But I couldn't agree more with your notion that "it would have been polite of you to notify the editors ". I'd appreciate the same from time to time... Lets not forget that I voted "support" for the Urumqi article. But what I saw happen over the Tibetan Museum which strongly implied to me a resentment of the Chinese and their propaganda by Seb, you can forgive me for suddenly being suspicious of him. The first work I saw that he did heavily was the Urumqi riots article. And I did say during the FAC how surprising it was that the article was developed so much when the Urumqi article itself is a lot poorer. Then that got me wondering why there was so much passion there in writing the article, as if it was done to identify the grievances facing the Ughyurs thats all.Everybody has a certain reason or motivation for writing an article. I just know that many people bring real world biases with them to wikipedia and implant it all over, I am very pleased to hear that neither you, Seb or the group that wrote the article do not bring their issues with them to wikipedia and try to make it neutral. Thanks for clearing that up.[[User:Dr. Blofeld| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">'''''Dr. Blofeld'''''</font>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Dr. Blofeld| <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat</font></font color> ]]</sup> 19:42, 25 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Not a dictionary==<br />
Please check out [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lady]]. Thanks.[[User:Kitfoxxe|Kitfoxxe]] ([[User talk:Kitfoxxe|talk]]) 02:24, 30 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merging [[Word (language)]] ==<br />
<br />
In the [[Talk:Word#Merge|suggested merge]] of [[Word (language)]] to [[Word]] you wrote, "Any content that is worth preserving can be brought over here, but there's no need for a full-on merge." Isn't that a definition of [[Help:Merging|merging]]? <g> <br />
<br />
I do agree that there is no need to merge everything at [[Word (language)]], and upon closer inspection (probably something I should have undertaken before supporting the proposal; bad on me) there is only one suggestion there that is supported by reliable sources. That is the description of semantic primitives, cited to work by Goddard and what I think is a textbook by Wierzbicka. I'm not sure if this should merged to [[Word]], but think either it could be merged or else there could be a pointer to [[Semantic primes]] either in the text or as a See also.<br />
<br />
Given the lack of well-sourced information, I would have no problem with a redirect without merge. I'll suggest as much at [[Talk:Word]]. [[User:Cnilep|Cnilep]] ([[User talk:Cnilep|talk]]) 20:38, 30 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Yeah, I only agree with merging insofar as expanding the existing [[Word]] article with any information that might benefit it (something that we would be doing anyway if we wanted to improve the article), I don't feel any obligation to "preserve" what's at the other article unless it is useful to the current article. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 20:43, 30 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
==[[:File:ZhouYouguang.jpg]]==<br />
Hi, the OTRS permission is pending since July 2009. Was the permission sent? If not, the image needs to be deleted. Regards [[User:Hekerui|Hekerui]] ([[User talk:Hekerui|talk]]) 20:12, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Sorry, I thought I had deleted this a while back but must have been confused. I got permission for this photo, but the e-mail the guy sent me ended up not being specific enough about the license it was released under, and I never did manage to get in touch with him again. Oh well. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 20:34, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::That's a pity :( [[User:Hekerui|Hekerui]] ([[User talk:Hekerui|talk]]) 22:23, 31 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Napoelonic Triple Crown ==<br />
<br />
[[File:Napoleonictriplecrown.jpg|left|thumb|250px|Your majesty, it gives me great pleasure to bestow these '''[[Wikipedia:Triple Crown|Imperial Napoleonic Triple Crown]]''' upon Rjanag for your contributions to chinese, psychological and other articles in the areas of [[WP:DYK]], [[WP:GA]], and [[WP:FC]]. Well done on such a diverse array! [[User:Casliber|Casliber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 00:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)]]<br />
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Thanks! <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 16:43, 1 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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{{-}}<br />
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==[[Latma TV]]==<br />
Please read the article again. I have added material.[[User:Broad Wall|Broad Wall]] ([[User talk:Broad Wall|talk]]) 17:03, 4 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Village Pump ==<br />
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Just FYI, the edit of mine which you deleted because it was added after the discussion was closed -- that's not the way it happened. I was writing the comment while the discussion was being closed, so when I saved it, it saved it to the already closed thread. I left it because the thread was '''''open''''' when I began composing the comment. Thanks. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 23:58, 5 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Before removing the comment I specifically checked to see if that were the case, and it didn't seem to be so, which is why I went ahead and removed it. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29&diff=366247286&oldid=366246623 Your post] was made 10 minutes after Resolute [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29&diff=366246073&oldid=366246032 closed] the thread; did you really spend that long on one edit? <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 00:07, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Ten minutes, huh? That seems slow even for me. I can't recall if I was interrupted in the middle of writing it, but I probably was - I was doing laundry and other household chores this afternoon, that could explain it. But, in any case, from my interior perspective, that's the way it went down. I was very surprised after I saved it that the thread was closed, and also that I hadn't edit-conflicted with the closing, but I assumed (because I didn't look at the timestamps) that they had occured in a bang-bang fashion. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 00:16, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== 114.133.* ==<br />
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Hey --- that guy is changing IPs every few minutes now, it's turning into a whack-a-mole. I started an ANI thread, if it might help; see [[Wikipedia:Administrator's noticeboard/Incidents#Dynamic IP and talk pages of schools in China]]. [[User:CaliforniaAliBaba|cab]] ([[User talk:CaliforniaAliBaba|talk]]) 04:38, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==您好==<br />
[[User:Ccyber5]]由于中国大陆的网络封锁，无法在英文维基百科完全正常地编辑，他委托我向您询问一下，他可不可以申请IP封禁例外（IP block exemption）权限。另外，他有一些问题想向您请教，不知道如何与你在网上联系？--[[User:KeepOpera|KeepOpera]] ([[User talk:KeepOpera|talk]]) 05:34, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==LatmaTV==<br />
Hey, Rjanag, please don't take this the wrong way, but I strongly recommend that you withdraw your attempt to delete [[LatmaTV]], as at this point, it is obvious that your request has no chance of passing.--[[User:Reenem|<font color="green"/>RM]] <small>([[User talk:Reenem|<font color="red"/>Be my friend]])</small> 15:29, 9 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
==Hi, would you be so kind as to give us support!==<br />
Hello, I hope you are doing fine and I sincerely apologize for this intrusion. I have just read your profile and you seem a very learned person and interested in (small) languages and cultures so maybe I am not bothering you and you will help us... I'm a member of an association "Amical de la Viquipèdia" which is trying to get some recognition as a Catalan Chapter but this has not been approved up to this moment because it does not belong to one state. We would appreciate your support, visible if you stick this on your first page: [[Template:Wikimedia CAT|Wikimedia CAT]]. Thanks again, wishing you a great summer, take care! [[User:Capsot|Capsot]] ([[User talk:Capsot|talk]]) 10:20, 10 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== WikiProject Theoretical Linguistics ==<br />
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Hello, I am trying to bring [[WP:WikiProject Theoretical Linguistics]] back to semi-active status. Toward that end, I have moved all members who have not posted to the project page in the past six months to a section, "Inactive members." If you wish to be active in the project, I hope you will move your name back to the section, "Members." You may also remove your name if you are no longer interested in the project.<br />
<br />
I know you've been especially active on WikiProject Languages. I would value your opinion on whether it is worthwhile to revive WPTL, or maybe combine it into WP Linguistics. Thanks, and happy editing, [[User:Cnilep|Cnilep]] ([[User talk:Cnilep|talk]]) 17:57, 19 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Two moves ==<br />
<br />
请帮我移动这两个文章：<br />
* [[Han River (Hanjiang)]] ——> [[Han River (Guangdong)：This title is mis-leading, because there is another 'Hanjiang' (but 汉江), in the central portion of the country. <br />
* [[Hami Prefecture]] ——> [[Kumul Prefecture]]: 这是一个维吾尔的地方。。。按着 中文的 MOS，名称应该用为 "Kumul"。<br />
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多谢！ ---[[User:Mathpianist93|华钢琴49]] ([[User talk:Mathpianist93|TALK]]) 03:57, 20 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Urumqi ==<br />
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Hello. The Urumqi article is due to undergo major development in [[User:Nvvchar/Sandbox 2]]. You are welcome to contribute to this sandbox and help get Urumqi up to a decent standard. Congrats on the FA on the main page BTW.[[User:Dr. Blofeld| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">'''''Dr. Blofeld'''''</font>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Dr. Blofeld| <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat</font></font color> ]]</sup> 12:46, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Stats ==<br />
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I was refereed to you by Rlevse. I was wondering how to put stats on my talk page like admins showing number of edits that auto updates. Thanks. <br />
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[[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 16:19, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rlevse&diff=372502508User talk:Rlevse2010-07-09T01:57:27Z<p>Hmm...: /* User stats, editors and outing prevention */ new section</p>
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== Re: Hmm ==<br />
<br />
I stand by my comments, as I believe that they are an accurate representation of the facts. In the future I will be restricting my edits to non-controversial and non-DYK issues, as for this and a number of other reasons, I have lost faith in the DYK process. Kind regards, [[User:Quasihuman|Quasihuman]] ([[User talk:Quasihuman|talk]]) 22:22, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Disagreements happen all the time on wiki. It's inherent in the process and I've had my own DYK run ins, but I still enjoy it. Here, you're basically saying "if DYK/wiki doesn't agree with my views, they're hosed and I'm not participating". That's your choice but you're setting yourself up for failure within the wiki model. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:24, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Your definition of failure may be different to mine; mostly, I'm happy with researching and editing articles, I have no real desire to "succeed" in any way other than contributing to an article in a way that makes me happy. My attempt at reviewing DYK nominations was an attempt to learn more about what makes an article good, and to develop skill at critique which could be applied to my own work both on and off wiki. Thanks, [[User:Quasihuman|Quasihuman]] ([[User talk:Quasihuman|talk]]) 22:36, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Thanks ==<br />
<br />
I just wanted to say thanks for all the good work you are doing on DYK. I can see it's very hard and time consuming, and want you to know it's appreciated. [[User:Crum375|Crum375]] ([[User talk:Crum375|talk]]) 22:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Why thank you, that's very kind and much appreciated. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:51, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Seconded, particularly for sorting out the leftovers at the bottom of the pile that no-one else seems to want to touch! [[User:Bencherlite|Bencherlite]][[User talk:Bencherlite|<i><sup>Talk</sup></i>]] 18:44, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Why thanks again, and yes, we can use more help in the leftovers. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:28, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK miss ==<br />
<br />
I just saw that I overlooked my DYK notification and that you [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Did_you_know&diff=369818012&oldid=369817942 deleted] the nom. The hook was actually properly cited by the closest subsequent reference, which cited several consecutive sentences. I didn't really develop the article, but the hook was O.K.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|C]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|BIO]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:FOUR]]) </small> 06:53, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:But there is still the busted ref, number 1, that is used twice. It renders a "server not found" error and I don't think it should be in DYK in that state. If someone can fix that I will put it into a queue. NRHP probably rearranged their web site or there's a typo in the URL.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 10:13, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I gave it a look-see. The record isn't digitized yet in the NRHP/NPS system and the old NRIS system seems to be down either for the moment or good, not sure which. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 10:35, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:::I tried again and FOUND the [http://gis.hpa.state.il.us/hargis/Reports/Reports.aspx?RefNumVariable=223381&FormType=Short link], from the Illinois Historic Preservation Agency. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 10:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::::I have added the newly found link to the [[Illinois Institute of Technology Academic Campus]] page. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 10:51, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::::::Hmm, that's giving me an "HTTP status 404 error". Would you mind making it a ref but leave out the URL? <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 11:55, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Sure, gimme one second. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 11:57, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::::::::[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Illinois_Institute_of_Technology_Academic_Campus&diff=369899165&oldid=369892198 Done]. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 11:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:Sorry for the misunderstandig, but it's ref one Tony and I are talking about, not ref 3. I've reset the version. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 14:27, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I've marked that as a dead link and put the hook in a prep queue.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 18:39, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Oooops! I just picked the ref that was listed as #1 on the page. My mistake, but at least you know where to find a link when you need one. :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 00:18, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
==Revision deletion==<br />
For this [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Matthew_McConaughey&action=historysubmit&diff=369961135&oldid=369961009 DIFF]----[[User:Morenooso|moreno oso]] ([[User talk:Morenooso#top|talk]]) 19:37, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:either the diff is wrong or it was already done. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==request by user:congressionalstaff==<br />
Good day Rlevse may I respectfully request your kind assistance as an active editor of the Wikipedia article [[List of United States Naval Academy alumni (legislators)]] and as the one who worked to have it promoted to featured list on Wikipedia. I would like to include the picture of a noted alumni who had set a record not only during his stay at the US Naval Academy in Annapolis but also made historical impact as a politician and public servant in the Philippines, Congressman [[Roilo Golez]]. While at the academy he excelled in academics as a consistent Superintendent's List midshipman, in sports becoming a four-year undefeated academy boxing champion in his weight division setting a record in then more than 100 years of academy boxing, and in leadership having held the position of Company Commander which is a rare distinction for foreign midshipmen. In the Philippines, he had a long and productive career as a public servant having been elected in landslide victories in 1992, 1995, 1998, 2004, 2007, and 2010, serving as Representative of the City of Paranaque in the 9th, 10th, 11th, 13th and 14th Congress of the Philippines and will be serving in the incoming 15th Congress of the Philippines on his unprecedented sixth term in office as a congressman. He is also the President of the U.S. Naval Academy Alumni Association, Philippine Chapter and is a Life Member of the U.S. Naval Academy Alumni Association. He had also served as the President of the Boy Scouts of the Philippines, Governor of the Philippine National Red Cross, and President of the Amateur Boxing Association of the Philippines. I had tried to include his picture but was instructed by MBK004 to start a discussion on it first. Thank you very much in advance for your time and invaluable inputs. {{unsigned|Congressionalstaff}}<br />
:He certainly deserves an article but I'm not sure about a photo on the list. He's mentioned in the narrative above the list but most others aren't.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:20, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Sir Rlevse thank you very much for your prompt response. May I ask what would be the standard or basis required or observed by the Wikipedia community in placing the photo of a US Naval Academy alumni beside the list, in addition, for an alumni not so included to have his picture also placed beside the list. It would help a lot of people researching on the subject matter to have the picture of the mentioned alumnus right there on the article itself, it is a short list after all and the picture will just be small for which the space beside the table is ample enough to accomodate. At the very least, it could accomodate one more, please. [[User:Congressionalstaff|Congressionalstaff]] ([[User talk:Congressionalstaff|talk]]) 03:01, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::No need for calling me sir ;-) One thing is that there are already pics there and people really don't like for the row of pics to run below the list of names so. One would have to be swapped out. I suggest you start a chat on the list's talk page, post on MBK's page to see what he says, and see what other people say. Leave the talk open at least a week and we'll see how it's going.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 03:43, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Ok thanks I really appreciate your comments and will do as advised, btw I just checked the article's page again [[List of United States Naval Academy alumni (legislators)]] and the list of names now run quite below the row of pics on the side admitting perhaps the placement of two more pics without running below the list of names. I hope this request for one more pic may be given due course by the Wikipedia admins, sysop such as you and the rest of the Wikipedia community. Thanks so much, I'm learning to appreciate the quality and amount of collaborative work that goes into every article on Wikipedia. No wonder it is of the status it is today as a widely used and most visited reference website. [[User:Congressionalstaff|Congressionalstaff]] ([[User talk:Congressionalstaff|talk]]) 05:16, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Another Keegscee Sock==<br />
The socks keep breaking through, [[User:Xobni lluf]] is the newest. Kinda sad the user just doesn't seem to be smart enough to get they aren't welcome. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 04:05, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:Fastily blocked them, but the rangeblocks don't seem to be holding them back. They must be using other proxies. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 04:31, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
::New one: [[User:Starbrighttonight]]. He claims he doesn't cause any drama, I actually cause the drama reporting him. Stupid sock is stupid. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 05:04, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
:::Yes, multiple providers. Did what I could on these too.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 10:18, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Excellent, thank you :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;White;">Talk</span>]] • 19:35, 25 June 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
== Today's Wikipedian ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rlevse, that is extremely kind of you, and very much appreciated. Beyond that, I'd like to thank you for undertaking the TW effort in general, which I am sure helps spread good will around the project. I just hope that between the tireless work you do at DYK, the TW, and other wiki-things, you get a chance to take time off. Thanks again, [[User:Crum375|Crum375]] ([[User talk:Crum375|talk]]) 00:24, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks and ;-) <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:52, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ursula Buckel ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for approving her (and others) so promptly! I'm used to waiting for days and weeks until someone looks ... and didn't want to nominate too late. I was planning to expand both the singer and the cantata, promised. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 20:13, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:No problem.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 20:38, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Archiving my talk page ==<br />
<br />
Just wait a few days — I archive at the end of every third month, so it will be archived by the end of the week. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 15:39, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I've proposed a new hook for St. Joseph's Church. Thanks for the note; I proposed the original hook because I couldn't think of anything better, but I think my new proposal is better. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 15:52, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for persisting and putting up with me on this; the final result is much better because of your help. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 05:00, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::No problem. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 09:51, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Clint Eastwood==<br />
The article was split from the main article with the intention of condensing it like I did with the 1960s and 1970s. Unfortunately somebody nominated it for DYK....[[User:Dr. Blofeld| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">'''''Dr. Blofeld'''''</font>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Dr. Blofeld| <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat</font></font color> ]]</sup> 15:41, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well Gato disapproved it. So now the main needs compressed to a summary or the fork needs deleted. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:49, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RE: Happy Merovingian's Day! ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I really appreciate the recognition, thanks very much.<br><br />
Best regards and happy editing! --[[User:Merovingian|Merovingian]] ([[User talk:Merovingian|T]], [[Special:Contributions/Merovingian|C]], [[Special:Log/Merovingian|L]]) 01:39, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Update balance== <br />
<br />
I notice you seem to have prepared a few updates recently with more than four bio hooks. An update should never have more than four bios, unless it's absolutely unavoidable (ie, nothing but bio hooks left). Given that there are plenty of verified hooks at Suggestions ATM, it's not as if there aren't plenty of other hooks to choose from. <br />
<br />
And BTW, don't forget to choose a funny/quirky hook for the last slot - I've just noticed a few so-so ones lately, although I don't know whose updates they were. [[User:Gatoclass|Gatoclass]] ([[User talk:Gatoclass|talk]]) 05:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Recognitions ==<br />
<br />
I put those guys up there because Ed did go ahead and barnstar them. If you want to change to your sig that's cool.--[[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris (クリス • フィッチュ)]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 19:13, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Ed put them there with his sig, then you changed them to your sig. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 21:43, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== My Appreciation ==<br />
<br />
Hi Rlevse,<br />
<br />
Thank you so much for the barnstar! I found it very encouraging. Your "Wikipedian of the day" initiative is a great way of telling other editors that their years of contributions are appreciated. Kudos for promoting cooperation throughout the project.<br />
<br />
Happy editing,<br />
<br />
[[User:Neelix|Neelix]] ([[User talk:Neelix|talk]]) 02:34, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 09:51, 29 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== ''The Wikipedia Signpost'': 28 June 2010 ==<br />
<br />
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"><br />
{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/{{#switch: 1<br />
| 1 = 2010-06-28<br />
| 2 = Volume 6, Issue 26<br />
| 3 = 2010-06-21<br />
| 4 = 2010-07-05<br />
}}}}<br />
</div><br />
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">'''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single|Single-page]] &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] &middot; [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) 21:59, 29 June 2010 (UTC)</div><br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0054 --><br />
<br />
== [[Wikipedia:Featured article review/Bhumibol Adulyadej/archive1]] ==<br />
<br />
I have nominated [[Bhumibol Adulyadej]] for a featured article review. [[User:Savidan|Savidan]] 21:20, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Long overdue. I gave up trying to save it long ago.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== WikiCup 2010 June newsletter ==<br />
<br />
[[File:Trophy.png|right]]<br />
We're half way through 2010, and the end of the WikiCup is in sight! Round 3 is over, and we're down to our final 16. Our pool winners were {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Ian Rose}} (A), {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Sturmvogel_66}} (B, and the round's overall leader), {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|ThinkBlue}} (C) {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Casliber}} and {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|TonyTheTiger}} (D, joint), but, with the scores reset, everything is to play for in our last pooled round. The pools will be up before midnight tonight, and have been selected randomly by J Milburn. This will be the toughest round yet, and so, as ever, anything you worry may not receive the necessary attention before the end of the round (such as outstanding GA or FA nominations) is welcome at [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews]], and please remember to continue offering reviews yourself where possible. As always, the judges are available to contact via email, IRC or their talk pages, and general discussion about the Cup is welcome on the [[WT:CUP|WikiCup talk page]].<br />
<br />
Though unaffiliated with the WikiCup, July sees the [[Wikipedia:The Great Wikipedia Dramaout/3rd|third Great Wikipedia Dramaout]]- a project with not dissimilar goals to the WikiCup. Everyone is welcome to take part and do their bit to contribute to the encyclopedia itself.<br />
<br />
If you're interested in the scores for the last round of the Cup, please take a look at [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/History/2010/Round 3]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/History/2010/Full/Round 3]]. Our thanks go to {{Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant|Stone}} for compiling these. As was predicted, Group C ended up the "Group of Death", with 670 points required for second place, and, therefore, automatic promotion. This round will probably be even tougher- again, the top two from each of the two groups will make it through, while the twelve remaining participants will compete for four wildcard places- good luck everyone! <small>If you wish to start receiving or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from [[Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send]].</small> [[User:J Milburn|J Milburn]], [[User:Fox|Fox]] and [[User:The ed17|The ed17]]<br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0055 --><br />
<br />
== Me day ==<br />
<br />
Though I know not why (or even how) it came to pass that I was selected as a "Day" recipient, thank you.<br />
--[[User:Piledhigheranddeeper|Piledhigheranddeeper]] ([[User talk:Piledhigheranddeeper|talk]]) 01:12, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RFC closed ==<br />
<br />
Hi, in your ARBCOM hat - I was looking for some feedback on on the way forward as the RFC discussion has closed concerning what we are to do with the low results returned in the checkuser and oversight elections [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Checkuser_and_oversighter_selection#.22Immediate_steps.22_poll_by_FT2 "Immediate steps" poll by FT2] and is in need of assessment and the next step, whatever that is to be, regards.[[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 23:35, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well, there's not much of a consensus there for anything is there. Considering there is a dire need for more CUs and OSs, that is indeed a conundrum. We're discussing it.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:03, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your attention. [[User:Off2riorob|Off2riorob]] ([[User talk:Off2riorob|talk]]) 01:11, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DYK prep 2 ==<br />
<br />
Hi, not sure if you've started trying to compile Prep2, but I just uploaded a set there. Sorry, I think I forgot to save the Inuse template since I don't see it in the history. <i>[[User:Grondemar|&ndash;]][[User talk:Grondemar|Grondemar]]</i> 16:21, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:No biggie, I'll put mine in extra. Tks for letting me know. I am pulling a set now. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 16:22, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== True/Slant ==<br />
<br />
Hello. I'm a bit concerned about [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Did_you_know&diff=prev&oldid=371360327#Articles_created.2Fexpanded_on_June_22 the True/Slant matter], and the way it was handled. First, for reasons articulated there by a number of editors, I don't think there was any legitimate BLP issue. It is not enough for one to claim there is such an issue; that must in fact be the case. What was argued -- that the hook had no BLP issue, and most of the article underlying the hook had no BLP issue, but one sentence in the article did have a BLP issue, because that sentence said a person held a sign with a spelling error, is not IMHO a legitimate BLP issue. The BLP argument was used by the same editor in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Arrest_of_Two_New_Jersey_Men_Bound_for_Somalia an AFD discussion]. He called it a "clear BLP violation". Not one editor agreed with him. The article was kept a "Keep". Here, it is even more attenuated -- as the phrase is not even in the hook (though I obviously feel were it in the hook, the answer would be the same). The hook was approved. Gato said no decision can be made, as conversation is ongoing. Then, with most of the editors disagreeing with Gato, you come in to the still-ongoing-discussion and close it as disapproved.<br />
<br />
If Gato was wrong that the editor could not approve the discussion, it should have been approved. If he was right, because the conversation was ongoing, then you also should not be able to close the discussion as a disapprove.<br />
<br />
IMHO. Respectfully. I would ask, for the foregoing reasons, that you restore the discussion.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 00:53, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:BLP standards for DYK, since they appear on the main page, are higher than for article space. I'm not about to put that on the main page with all the ongoing concerns. That is alone is enough to disapprove it, but in addition nor will I keep it there on hold for as long as a BLPN takes.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:59, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::"All the ongoing concerns" have been demonstrated to be just so many words IMHO, and in the opinion of most of the editors in that discussion. The editor who posed the same concerns at AfD was informed by lack of any agreement that his assertions of "clear BLP violation" were just words -- not the case. I see the same here; even worse, as the hook itself lacks any such claimed violation whatsoever. The standards applied at DYK (which you refer to) are reflected at the DYKs that I pointed to. They reflect that the higher standard you refer to allows for hooks describing people as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:DYKSTATS 10 most wanted fugitives] and as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:DYKSTATS be-headers] (with pictures to boot), and these hooks are among those we boast about as having the most hits. This clearly falls well within that standard. I don't think its even close. I'm concerned as well with the double standard -- the approver cannot close the discussion because it is ongoing, but the non-approver can? I'm struggling to appreciate how that can be. Thanks for your thoughts.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:07, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I'm not changing my mind. Recall the Arabian DYK issue. That's two BLP-related DYK noms with significant concerns you've been at the center at in as many weeks.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:13, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*Yes. With the same Gato -- whose edits are discussed there--at the center of it. And the other hook was one that was added to a queue, but then you deleted from a queue--so you were also at the center of it. <br />
<br />
I fail to see how I am being treated consistently, since you promote for DYK an article that says "Montoya '''had previously been investigated in July 2006 for sexual assault that involved vaginal penetration on Nevaeh, then 23 months old'''", and that's just fine. But when I have an article that mentions '''a spelling error''', its not. I'm slightly troubled that there may be a double standard. And that you've again not indicated why you can close a conversation in mid-discussion, but an approver cannot. I would like to appeal this matter -- what would you suggest is the appropriate manner? I would like it to be reviewed by people other than those who have given us and Gato awards -- third parties who are more arms'length -- as I think we can then get the fairest result. Many thanks.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:19, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::That was not the hook used in Neveah's article, you're putting the problematic bit right in the hook. Spelling has nothing to do with it. The Arabian thread is where I learned how much the DYK BLP standard is higher is. I explained why I closed this particular nom. If you want more review, go ahead, but again, I'm not changing my mind. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:26, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*No. Respectfully--you are absolutely wrong. You apparently closed the True/Slant discussion without reading the hooks. --[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:31, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Totally untrue. Let me elaborate on one thing I said above about ongoing BLPN, I'm not putting an article with a BLPN up as DYK hook, not even with that alt hook. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:31, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I feel we must be speaking different languages. You, above, said "That was not the hook used in Neveah's article, ''you're putting the problematic bit right in the hook''." Focusing on the ''True/Slant'' hook(s), for the moment, there was no BLP problem with the hook(s). One was only even claimed (without support at the AfD, and without consensus support at the DyK discussion) ''as to the underlying article''. But that's certainly not the standard applied at DyK, as is evident in not only your DYK where the underlying article speaks of alleged vaginal penetration of a 23-month-old, but in any number of others which (as yours) speak of things perhaps slightly more unspeakable than a spelling error. Nor have you stated what the standard is, or where it is written.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:42, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Move along. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:52, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*I'm not sure what that means. I had thought we had a misunderstanding, and sought to clarify. You seem to be indicating that you are not interested in responding to my request for clarification. I had thought that under wp:admin, it was the least I could expect, especially as you seemed to confuse whether the True/Slant hook(s) had a putative BLP violation. I gather you are not inclined to do so.<br />
<br />
Just so I'm clear, my concerns at this point are as follows. <br />
#I don't think there is a legitimate BLP concern, for the reasons stated by me and others, both in the two DYK threads and at the AfD. <br />
#I don't feel there is any "higher level DYK" concern in these two hooks, as evidenced by a) the level of DYK concern about underlying articles evidenced elsewhere, b) the level of DYK concern about hooks that were far more negative about living persons, c) the fact that nobody has indicated why a ''spelling error'' in an underlying article violates such higher standard, and d) the fact that nobody has articulated precisely what that higher standard is, and where it is reflected. <br />
#I'm concerned that Gato is applying a higher standard to my DYKs than is being applied to others. <br />
#I'm concerned that you are doing the same. <br />
#I'm concerned that after my first DYK was put in queue by the editor who pulled it out, you reverted him, and now after an approving editor is reverted ''on the basis that conversation is ongoing'', you disapprove the hook ''even though conversation is ongoing''. <br />
#You appear disinclined to respond to my efforts to learn where that standard is stated, what the standard is, and what I am missing in the comparison between the True/Slant hook and your hook -- which had a much more BLP-sensitive accusation in it.<br />
<br />
Obviously, these issues are more than DYK or BLP by themselves can handle, and I think it best not to separate them. I would like to proceed in a manner that is agreeable with you, if possible. To keep the discussion centralized, do you think that AN/I would be the best place to go? Or RFC? Not necessarily as the final level, but as the next level?--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 01:58, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I've explained myself, you're not listening we're going in circles. Move along. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 02:00, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*I'll move along, as you suggest. But just to be clear -- I've articulated above just where you have failed to explain yourself. IMHO, of course. I won't repeat the items, as they are delineated clearly enough above, and I don't wish to trouble you. I gather you have no view as to the best reviewing forum.--[[User:Epeefleche|Epeefleche]] ([[User talk:Epeefleche|talk]]) 02:11, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== User groups ==<br />
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Hi. Could you recover Brandmeister's user rights for this alternate account of mine? CU may endorse IP match. [[User:Twilight Chill|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#2F4D92">'''Twilight'''</span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#6082B6">'''chill'''</span>]] [[User talk:Twilight Chill|''t'']] 19:17, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Done. CU confirmed.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:27, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::See [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard&oldid=369565717#Unique_CU_and_Rename_request this for the record] <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 19:36, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Prep Extra ==<br />
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Sorry if I cut you off in editing that template. I forgot to finish it and came back to fill in the remaining spots not really knowing that you were already on it :)--[[user:White Shadows|<font style="color:#191970">'''White Shadows'''</font>]] <sup>[[user talk:White Shadows|<font style="color:#DC143C">'''There goes another day'''</font>]]</sup> 22:54, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's okay. No problem. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:55, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks ;)--[[user:White Shadows|<font style="color:#191970">'''White Shadows'''</font>]] <sup>[[user talk:White Shadows|<font style="color:#DC143C">'''There goes another day'''</font>]]</sup> 22:57, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== [[Daniel Lambert]] for [[WP:DYK|Did you know?]] ==<br />
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You seem currently busy editing. I updated the phrasing of the article about [[Daniel Lambert]] to "[[corrections officer|prison warder]] ('[[gaol]] keeper')", to avoid ambiguity.<br />
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This change should be done on the QUEUE for DYK, imho, but I don't know how. <br />
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(I thought Lambert was a [[association football]] ([[soccer]]) [[Goalkeeper (association football)|goal-keeper]], which is exactly what Wikipedia suggests if you search for [[gaol keeper]]!) <br />
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Thanks, [[User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz|Kiefer.Wolfowitz]] ([[User talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz|talk]]) 23:24, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:And I've undone it; please don't make daft edits like this. A gaol keeper has nothing in common with either a prison warder or a "corrections officer" (whatever that is) other than both working in custodies of some kind.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 23:28, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It seems clear this guy ran a prison. Use whatever term for that you guys like. FYI, "corrections officer" is a modern day US term for someone that keeps an eye on prison/jail inmates, which Lambert does seem to have done. I've fixed the queue hook so that gaol no longer goes to a redirect but directly to [[prison]].<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:44, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::A gaol keeper ''owned'' a gaol (not a prison, which in this period is a hard-labour institution rather than a town lock-up) and took a per-prisoner fee from the local town or sheriff. All an eighteenth-century gaol keeper has is common with a modern-day prison warder is that they both worked in a place where people are locked up.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 23:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Then I'd say gaol needs its own article or a section in [[prison]] <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:57, 3 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::It's a problematic one; "gaol" today ''is'' the British-English word for "prison" (the labour-camps no longer exist), and that's the sense in which most people will be searching for it. We do have an (very unsatisfactorily-titled) article on the old-style gaols and bridewells at [[Village lock-up]], but that needs a huge cleanup; it can't be moved to "Lock-up" because "lock-up" itself ''also'' has a new meaning in the present-day English system (the cells in police stations where recently-arrested people are kept). <br />
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:::::The problem is that the only people regularly working on 18th-19th century England are myself and Slim, and we both have a limited amount of time on our hands; plus, policing and prisons are one field where Wikipedia's coverage is massively skewed towards the US (that [[prison warden]] article doesn't even ''mention'' the rest of the world), so the "obvious" links often point to wildly misleading things on US posts or buildings with the same name but completely different functions.&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 00:10, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Hmm, that is problematic.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:11, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::What's really ironic is that the US split from Britain before the 1839 restructuring of the British penal system, and thus preserved the gaol/prison distinction; [[Prison]] includes a long section on [[Prison#Jails in the United States|Jails in the United States]] which explains the difference perfectly, but obviously can't be used here because it's not in the US...&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font> 00:24, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== DYK : [[Recaredo Santos Tornero]] ==<br />
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Hi. I recall having a DYK in the past but I don't remember the process. My DYK for [[Recaredo Santos Tornero]] has already been verified. How much does it takes to be taken to the queue? Thanks in advance! :-) [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] <sup>[[User talk:Diego Grez|let's talk]]</sup> 15:54, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I tend to focus the older noms as most people focus on the newer ones. I do so as those people have been waiting longer to see theirs on the main page. Yours was only posted and verified yesterday and there's still stuff waiting from late June. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 16:03, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Ah, OK then. :) --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] <sup>[[User talk:Diego Grez|let's talk]]</sup> 16:13, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== DYK request ==<br />
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The hook in the prep area for [[Copano, Texas]] also links [[Copano Bay]]. I recently rewrote the Copano Bay article, which now qualifies for DYK because it was over a 5x expansion discounting the copyright violation and unreferenced nonsense previously on the page. Could it be possible to bold the link to Copano Bay on the hook to create a double nomination hook?--[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] ([[User talk:William S. Saturn|talk]]) 08:05, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Based on prose size that's not even a 3x expansion (2078 to 5466). And I'm not seeing the copyright thing you mention, but I'm not totally awake yet ;-) Maybe ask Gatoclass or Materialscientist about this. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 10:04, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It was a complete rewrite, so it basically went from 0 to 5466.--[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] ([[User talk:William S. Saturn|talk]]) 16:46, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Now I see it. Done. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 20:16, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Thank you very much.--[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] ([[User talk:William S. Saturn|talk]]) 20:24, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== ''The Wikipedia Signpost'': 5 July 2010 ==<br />
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<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"><br />
{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/{{#switch: 1<br />
| 1 = 2010-07-05<br />
| 2 = Volume 6, Issue 27<br />
| 3 = 2010-06-28<br />
| 4 = 2010-07-12<br />
}}}}<br />
</div><br />
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">'''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single|Single-page]] &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] &middot; [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) 16:19, 6 July 2010 (UTC)</div><br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0056 --><br />
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== Re: Happy Me Day ==<br />
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Many thanks for this, Rlevse. I've been having a stressful time lately for reasons unconnected with Wikipedia, and your award really made me smile. I am awed to have been chosen. Regards, [[User:Espresso Addict|Espresso Addict]] <small>([[User talk:Espresso Addict|talk]])</small> 16:58, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks and you're welcome. Glad it helped in other ways too. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 17:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Email 7-8-10 ==<br />
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Hello,<br />
<br />
I just corresponded with you via email. I would like to go ahead with your suggestion. Please email me if you have any questions.<br />
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Thank you <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Piccol13|Piccol13]] ([[User talk:Piccol13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piccol13|contribs]]) 01:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
:For the record that was a random rename request. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:03, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
Yes, thank you <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:As8q34wipo|As8q34wipo]] ([[User talk:As8q34wipo|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/As8q34wipo|contribs]]) 01:04, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
:Done.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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not to be a pest but i still see there are a couple lines that read "undid revision by piccol 13" is this changeable? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Piccol13|Piccol13]] ([[User talk:Piccol13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piccol13|contribs]]) 01:06, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
::Nope.<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 01:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
ok, thank you <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Piccol13|Piccol13]] ([[User talk:Piccol13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piccol13|contribs]]) 01:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
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== User stats, editors and outing prevention ==<br />
<br />
Hello<br />
<br />
I have a few questions. Are there stat code I could put on my talk page that would be similar to yours? I also like your user page, and I suspect that it was not entirely written in Wikipedia's online edit page as it is so complex. Did you use an external editor? I've always had trouble finding a resource to learn Wikicode. Is there any external WYSIWYG editor for editing wiki with a GUI interface? I've read the Wiki page about external editors and it doesn't seem like there are any good alternatives to the online editor or Microsoft Word. My last question about outing. I've changed my user name a while ago after I was outed. I since changed my user name, but I've noticed that some of my edits in the talk/discussion pages still have my RL name. So I had broken rule 1, 5, and 7. Should I just make a new account? Can I transfer edits and still be a verified user or whatnot?<br />
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Thanks [[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 01:57, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hmm...&diff=372418100User talk:Hmm...2010-07-08T16:39:42Z<p>Hmm...: </p>
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<div>Talkie talk<br />
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{{User:MiszaBot/config<br />
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|archive = User talk:MBisanz/Archive %(counter)d<br />
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{{AutoArchivingNotice|small=yes|age=14|target=./Archive 1|dounreplied=yes|index=./Archive index|bot=MiszaBot III}}<br />
{{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn|target=User talk:Hmm.../Archive index|mask=User talk:Hmm.../Archive <#>|indexhere=nein|template=User:Hmm.../indextemplate}}<br />
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==Duplicate images uploaded==<br />
Thanks for uploading [[:Image:Dmlogo.jpg]]. A machine-controlled [[WP:BOT|robot account]] noticed that you also uploaded the same image under the name [[:Image:DMlogo.JPG]]. The copy called Image:DMlogo.JPG has been marked for [[WP:CSD|speedy deletion]] since it is redundant. If this sounds okay to you, there is no need for you to take any action. <br />
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This is an automated message- you have not upset or annoyed anyone, and you do not need to respond. In the future, you may save yourself some confusion if you supply a meaningful file name and refer to 'my contributions' to remind yourself exactly which name you chose (file names are [[case sensitive]], including the extension) so that you won't lose track of your uploads. For tips on good file naming, see [[Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#Image_titles_and_file_names|Wikipedia's image use policy]]. If you have any questions about this notice, or feel that the deletion is inappropriate, please contact [[User:Staecker]], who operates the robot account. [[User:Staeckerbot|Staeckerbot]] ([[User talk:Staeckerbot|talk]]) 07:59, 30 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
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==Image copyright problem with Image:Dmlogo.jpg==<br />
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[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|32px|left|Image Copyright problem]]<br />
Thank you for uploading [[:Image:Dmlogo.jpg]]. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes [[Wikipedia:Copyrights|copyright]] very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the '''license''' and the '''source''' of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a '''[[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags|copyright tag]]''' to the [[Help:Image page|image description page]].<br />
<br />
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|media copyright questions page]]. Thanks again for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. [[User:STBotI|STBotI]] ([[User talk:STBotI|talk]]) 08:22, 30 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
==Problems with upload of Image:Queen Lane Campus.JPG==<br />
Thanks for uploading '''[[:Image:Queen Lane Campus.JPG]]'''. You don't seem to have said where the image came from, who created it, or what the copyright status is. We require this information to verify that the image is legally usable on Wikipedia, and because most image licenses require giving credit to the image's creator.<br />
<br />
To add this information, click on [[:Image:Queen Lane Campus.JPG|this link]], then click "Edit this page" and add the information to the image's description. If you need help, post your question on [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions]].<br />
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For more information on using images, see the following pages:<br />
* [[Wikipedia:Image use policy]]<br />
* [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags]]<br />
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Thank you for your cooperation. --[[User:ImageTaggingBot|ImageTaggingBot]] ([[User talk:ImageTaggingBot|talk]]) 05:06, 28 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I love it when you sweet talk me. [[User:Theleike|Theleike]] ([[User talk:Theleike#top|talk]]) 20:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Image tagging for Image:First Female Medical College of Pennsylvania Building.JPG==<br />
Thanks for uploading '''[[:Image:First Female Medical College of Pennsylvania Building.JPG]]'''. You don't seem to have said where the image came from or who created it. We require this information to verify that the image is legally usable on Wikipedia, and because most image licenses require giving credit to the image's creator.<br />
<br />
To add this information, click on [[:Image:First Female Medical College of Pennsylvania Building.JPG|this link]], then click "Edit this page" and add the information to the image's description. If you need help, post your question on [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions]].<br />
<br />
For more information on using images, see the following pages:<br />
* [[Wikipedia:Image use policy]]<br />
* [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags]]<br />
<br />
Thank you for your cooperation. --[[User:ImageTaggingBot|ImageTaggingBot]] ([[User talk:ImageTaggingBot|talk]]) 08:05, 28 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Archiving revert ==<br />
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Is there a particular topic or thread that you wish restored at [[Talk:Falun Gong]]? Even archived, the talk page is still over 100k in size. We should endeavour to keep the page trimmed and current for the sake of other editors. --[[User:Vassyana|Vassyana]] ([[User talk:Vassyana|talk]]) 03:08, 17 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I see that bot archiving has been set up, so I've self-reverted to the bot edit. --[[User:Vassyana|Vassyana]] ([[User talk:Vassyana|talk]]) 03:13, 17 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Thank you for the unexpected laughter ==<br />
<br />
Quoting you on the Falun Gong page: "I fear that when the actual article becomes editable again, this title will encourage partisan edits but of course, that is what the ban hammer is for." ...which made me stifle a belly laugh that would have woken the wife. I hope for the best and prepare for the worst. [[User:PerEdman|<span style="color:#ff0000"> / PerEdman</span>]] 21:38, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==File copyright problem with File:SafiloGp.png==<br />
[[File:Copyright-problem.svg|64px|left]]<br />
Thank you for uploading [[:File:SafiloGp.png]]. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes [[Wikipedia:Copyrights|copyright]] very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the '''license''' and the '''source''' of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a '''[[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags|copyright tag]]''' to the [[Help:Image page|image description page]].<br />
<br />
If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=upload&user=Hmm... this link].<br />
<br />
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|media copyright questions page]]. Thanks again for your cooperation.<!-- Template:Di-no license-notice --> <span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''[[User:Fastily|<big>F</big><small>ASTILY<sub>sock</sub></small>]]'''</span> <sup><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS"><small>[[User talk:Fastily|(T<small>ALK</small>)]]</small></span></sup> 06:55, 14 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== tofu ==<br />
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I'm not an admin, but I suggest you read [[Wikipedia:How to move pages]]. I don't have a problem with moving the page, but how you moved it. [[User:Deadkid dk|_dk]] ([[User talk:Deadkid dk|talk]]) 06:01, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Your recent edits==<br />
[[Image:Information.svg|25px]] Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to [[Wikipedia:Talk page|talk pages]] and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion{{#if:|, such as on [[{{{1}}}]]}}, you should [[Wikipedia:Signatures|sign your posts]] by typing four [[tilde]]s ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button [[Image:Signature_icon.png]] located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. {{#if:|{{{2}}}|Thank you.}} <!-- Template:uw-tilde --> --[[User:SineBot|SineBot]] ([[User talk:SineBot|talk]]) 07:24, 22 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Fermented bean curd ==<br />
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I moved [[Temp Fermented bean curd]] to [[Fermented bean curd]]. Is that what you intended? [[User:SchuminWeb|SchuminWeb]] ([[User talk:SchuminWeb|Talk]]) 04:22, 23 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Talkback ==<br />
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{{talkback|SchuminWeb|ts=02:15, 24 November 2009 (UTC)}}<br />
[[User:SchuminWeb|SchuminWeb]] ([[User talk:SchuminWeb|Talk]]) 02:15, 24 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Replaceable fair use File:Red fermented bean curd.jpg ==<br />
[[File:Ambox warning.svg|32px|left]]<br />
Thanks for uploading '''[[:File:Red fermented bean curd.jpg]]'''. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of [[Wikipedia:Non-free content|fair use]], but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our [[Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria|first non-free content criterion]] in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:<br />
<br />
# Go to [[:File:Red fermented bean curd.jpg|the media description page]] and edit it to add {{tlx|di-replaceable fair use disputed}}, '''without deleting the original replaceable fair use template'''.<br />
# On [[File talk:Red fermented bean curd.jpg|the image discussion page]], write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.<br />
<br />
Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, [[Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission|requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license]], or by taking a picture of it yourself.<br />
<br />
If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on <span class="plainlinks">[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Hmm...&namespace=6 this link]</span>. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our [[Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria|non-free content policy]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you. <!-- Template:di-replaceable fair use-notice --> — [[User:Explicit|<font color="B22222">'''ξ'''</font>]][[User talk:Explicit|<font color="000000"><sup>xplicit</sup></font>]] 21:01, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==File source problem with File:First Female Medical College of Pennsylvania Building.JPG==<br />
[[File:Copyright-problem.svg|64px|left]]<br />
Thank you for uploading '''[[:File:First Female Medical College of Pennsylvania Building.JPG]]'''. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the [[copyright]] status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.<br />
<br />
If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created [{{fullurl:Special:Log|type=upload&user=Hmm...}} in your upload log]. '''Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged''' per Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|criteria for speedy deletion]], [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#F4|F4]]. If the image is [[Wikipedia:Copyrights|copyrighted]] and [[Wikipedia:Non-free content|non-free]], '''the image will be deleted 48 hours after 17:22, 10 June 2010 (UTC)''' per [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] criterion [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#F7|F7]]. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-no source-notice --> [[User:Sfan00 IMG|Sfan00 IMG]] ([[User talk:Sfan00 IMG|talk]]) 17:22, 10 June 2010 (UTC)</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:MBisanz&diff=372416846User talk:MBisanz2010-07-08T16:31:00Z<p>Hmm...: /* Username question */ new section</p>
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<div>{{wikibreak<br />
| [Name]<br />
| type = wikibreak<br />
| message = MBisanz is at law school and will be editing very sporadically for the time being.<br />
| align = center<br />
| image = GULC campus.jpg<br />
| imagesize = <br />
}}<br />
Hi, This is just my talk page, feel free to leave any advice on my edits or ask for help on anything. If you feel I've abused my administrative or BAG powers, please see [[User:MBisanz/Recall]] for further instructions to request their removal. <br />
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== [[WP:GLAM/SI]] invite ==<br />
<br />
{{SI-invite}}<br />
<br />
== This logo file ==<br />
<br />
Can you see anything in this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Canada_Day_London_Logo.jpg logo file] It is used in wiki's article on [[Canada Day]]--my country's independence day but the screen appears blank. Do you see the same blank screen? If this is the case, I wonder what should be done with it. Any ideas? Regards, --[[User:Leoboudv|Leoboudv]] ([[User talk:Leoboudv|talk]]) 22:16, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I see a maple leaf logo, try pressing F5 to reload it. '''[[User:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFFF00;background-color: #0000FF;'>MBisanz</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFA500;'>talk</span>]]</sup> 22:20, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
*I'll try that. Thank you. --[[User:Leoboudv|Leoboudv]] ([[User talk:Leoboudv|talk]]) 06:00, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== A request ==<br />
<br />
Hi. Can you see [[User talk:Huntster#A request|this]]? I was told you are a "mentor" of Betacommand. Thanks.--[[User:Teles|<font face= "Times New Roman" color="#3D2B1F">T<small>ele</small>S</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:Teles|<font face= "Times New Roman" color="#EC2300">talk</font>]] / [[:pt:Usuário Discussão:Teles|pt-wiki talk]])</sup> 02:35, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Please, read [[Talk:Glass Catfish#Interwikis and the binomial name|this page]] too. Thanks.--[[User:Teles|<font face= "Times New Roman" color="#3D2B1F">T<small>ele</small>S</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:Teles|<font face= "Times New Roman" color="#EC2300">talk</font>]] / [[:pt:Usuário Discussão:Teles|pt-wiki talk]])</sup> 02:57, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Given his probation expires this week, I am going to defer the issue to Huntster for regular administrative review since he seems to know more about the particular issue. '''[[User:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFFF00;background-color: #0000FF;'>MBisanz</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFA500;'>talk</span>]]</sup> 20:55, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|Articles for deletion]] nomination of [[:Let the Angels Whisper Your Name]] ==<br />
<br />
<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|42px]]</div>I have nominated [[Let the Angels Whisper Your Name]], an article that you created, for [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deletion]]. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Let the Angels Whisper Your Name&#32; (2nd nomination)]]. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.{{-}}Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. <!-- Template:AFDWarning --> —[[User:Koavf|Justin (koavf)]]❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯ 17:44, 2 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I think it is from an AFD close, noted. '''[[User:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFFF00;background-color: #0000FF;'>MBisanz</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFA500;'>talk</span>]]</sup> 21:06, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== OTRS matter ==<br />
<br />
Hi. :) I had sent you an e-mail on the 1st, but in case it went awry wanted to follow up here since I have not heard from you. There is a question regarding an OTRS matter on my talk page from a contributor who wants to know whether the permission granted for a photograph was provided by the photographer, who is in most cases of course the copyright owner, as opposed to the subject. The question is [[User_talk:Moonriddengirl#OTRS_.2F_Copyright_question|here]]. Since you handled the [[Ticket:2010060310052355]], I wanted to invite your input. --[[User:Moonriddengirl|Moonriddengirl]] <sup>[[User talk:Moonriddengirl|(talk)]]</sup> 14:15, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Emailed you. '''[[User:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFFF00;background-color: #0000FF;'>MBisanz</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFA500;'>talk</span>]]</sup> 21:06, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== ''The Wikipedia Signpost'': 5 July 2010 ==<br />
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<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"><br />
{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/{{#switch: 1<br />
| 1 = 2010-07-05<br />
| 2 = Volume 6, Issue 27<br />
| 3 = 2010-06-28<br />
| 4 = 2010-07-12<br />
}}}}<br />
</div><br />
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">'''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single|Single-page]] &middot; [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] &middot; [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) 15:56, 6 July 2010 (UTC)</div><br />
<!-- EdwardsBot 0056 --><br />
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==DYK for The Pyramids (Indianapolis)==<br />
{{tmbox<br />
|tyle = notice<br />
|small = <br />
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]<br />
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#July 7 2010|July 7, 2010]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[The Pyramids (Indianapolis)]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201007/The_Pyramids_(Indianapolis) quick check] )</small> and add it to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].<br />
}} <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — [[User:Rlevse|<b style="color:#060;"><i>R</i>levse</b>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 12:02, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Username question ==<br />
<br />
I changed my username a while ago, but have recently found out that some talk pages still have my RL name instead of my current username. What can I do to ensure privacy? Can that somehow be changed to my new nick?<br />
<br />
Thanks <br />
<br />
[[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 16:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reddit&diff=372236933Reddit2010-07-07T16:38:58Z<p>Hmm...: /* External links */ Removed dead link, read WP:EL moved links to EL section</p>
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<div>{{pp-semi-vandalism|small=yes}}<br />
{{Lowercase}}<br />
{{Infobox Website<br />
| name = reddit<br />
| logo = [[Image:Reddit logo.svg|reddit logo]]<br />
| screenshot = {{hidden|Screenshot|[[Image:Reddit2008.png|200px|reddit front page on June 11, 2008]]}}<br />
| caption = reddit front page on June 11, 2008<br />
| url = [http://www.reddit.com/ www.reddit.com]<br />
| commercial = Yes<br />
| type = News aggregation site<br />
| registration = Free<br />
| owner = [[Condé Nast Publications]]<br />
| author = Steve Huffman and Alexis Ohanian<br />
| launch date = 2005<br />
| revenue = <br />
}}<br />
'''reddit''' (pronounced /ˈrɛdɪt/, i.e. "read it", as in "have you read it?") is a [[social news]] website, owned by [[Condé Nast Publications|Conde Nast Digital]], a subsidiary of [[Advance_Publications|Advance Magazine Publishers Inc]]. Users can browse and have the option to submit links to content on the Internet or submit "self" posts that contain original, user-submitted text. Other users may then vote the posted links "up" or "down" with the most successful links gaining prominence by reaching the front page. In addition, users can comment on the posted links and reply to other commentators consequently forming a vibrant community. Reddit is unique in that users may create their own topical sections for which to submit their links and to comment.<br />
<br />
== Overview ==<br />
[[File:Reddit Mr. Splashy Pants.png|thumb|left|[[Mister Splashy Pants]] logo used on November 27, 2007]]<br />
The site has discussion areas in which users may discuss the posted links and vote for or against others' comments. When there are enough votes against a given comment, it will not be displayed by default, although a reader can display it through a link or preference. Users who submit articles, which other users like and subsequently "vote up," are then more likely to be displayed.<br />
<br />
===(Sub)reddits===<br />
Reddit includes topical sections called "reddits" (colloquially called "subreddits"), which focus on specific topics, such as pics, funny, politics, worldnews, atheism, programming, travel, food, science or the all encompassing reddit. Similar to various sections in a newspaper, each section focuses on user-generated content that is relevant to each reddit. There are hundreds of reddits and users are encouraged to create their own.<ref>[http://reddit.com/reddits reddits<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref> Submissions that are voted up receive prominence by being displayed on the front page of the specific reddit. Those submissions receiving a high rate of votes are then displayed on the main front page of reddit.com. Users may also subscribe and unsubscribe to various reddit sections allowing them to choose which links from which reddit is displayed on their personal front page. <br />
<br />
Some prominent reddits are IAmA, where users in interesting situations and jobs can answer other users' questions; and AskReddit, where any user can ask a question, and answer questions posed by others.<br />
<br />
===Karma system===<br />
Reddit.com employs a [[Moderation system|moderation-based]] [[trust metric|"karma" reward system]] for users who make submissions and comment on stories. Users gains one point of link karma when another user votes up their submission and loses a point when a user votes down their submission. Individual comments may also be voted up or down by other users and result in a user's comment karma. Users stop losing karma after their submission reaches 0. This is not the case for comments. <br />
<br />
Karma points are also not gained from votes for direct submissions of Reddit-hosted posts to reddits (also known as "self" posts, usually indicated by "self.(name of reddit)" listed next to the name of the post)<ref>[http://www.reddit.com/comments/6p5ef/sorry_karmawhores_no_more_karma_for_selfposts/ ''Sorry, karma-whores. No more karma for self-posts'']</ref>; this was implemented by the administrators to counteract against "karma-whoring". <br />
<br />
According to the administrators, only one Reddit user has ever managed to redeem his karma accumulation; this was done by post-mailing the offices of Reddit with documentation of his most recent accumulation wrapped in [[styrofoam]], with the administrators replying with Reddit-branded gifts, or "[[Promotional merchandise|schwag]]".<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2009/06/weve-got-mail.html ''We've got mail!'']</ref><br />
<br />
===Messaging===<br />
The site also fosters discussion and a sense of community by notifying users of replies to with a "orangered" envelope. The site administrators are also active users replying directly to users, submitting their own submissions and commenting on stories. They also host video interviews with questions submitted by the community. The community have also have been known to socialize at local parks and bars around the world. <br />
<br />
===Logo===<br />
The Reddit logo changes for various holidays and often for no reason, paying homage to ''[[Star Wars]]'', classic video games, and [[geek]] culture in general. It often changes in response to major discussion subjects within the site or major news stories.<br />
<br />
== History ==<br />
<!-->[[Image:Steve Huffman.jpg|thumb|right|Steve Huffman]]<!--><br />
Reddit was founded by Steve Huffman and Alexis Ohanian in 2005, both 22-year-old graduates of the [[University of Virginia]].<ref>{{cite news | last = Adams | first = Richard | title = reddit.com | publisher = [[The Guardian]] | date = 2005-12-08 | url = http://technology.guardian.co.uk/innovations/story/0,,1660870,00.html | accessdate = 2006-12-23 }}</ref> It received its initial funding from [[Y Combinator]]. The team expanded to include Christopher Slowe and [[Aaron Swartz]] in 2005. Aaron Swartz joined in late January 2006 as part of the company's merger with Swartz's Infogami.<ref>{{cite web | url= http://infogami.com/blog/introduction|title= Introducing Infogami<br />
|last=Swartz | first=Aaron | authorlink=Aaron Swartz| publisher=Infogami | date=February 27, 2006 | accessdate= 2007-01-06}}</ref> The combined company was known as "not a bug." [[Condé Nast Publications]], owner of ''[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]]'', acquired "not a bug" on October 31, 2006.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://www.techcrunch.com/2006/10/31/breaking-news-conde-nastwired-acquires-reddit/ | title = Breaking news: Condé Nast/Wired Acquires reddit | publisher = [[TechCrunch]]|date=October 31, 2006|accessdate= 2007-01-06 | last=Arrington | first=Michael | authorlink=Michael Arrington}}</ref><br />
<br />
On June 18, 2008, Reddit became an [[open source]] project.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2008/06/reddit-goes-open-source.html Open source announcement on the Reddit blog]</ref> With the exception of the anti-spam/cheating portions, all of the code and libraries written for Reddit became freely available on another website dubbed "Fixxit."<ref>http://code.reddit.com/</ref><br />
<br />
Reddit was named by Ohanian while browsing the [[University of Virginia]]'s Alderman Library.<ref>[http://reddit.blogspot.com/2008/02/reddit-nostalgia-whence-came-name.html "reddit nostalgia: whence came the name?," on Alexis Ohanian's blog]</ref><br />
<br />
In January 2010, Reddit users raised over $134,000 for the victims of the [[2010 Haiti earthquake]].<ref>http://dri.convio.net/site/TR?pg=fund&fr_id=1030&pxfid=1511</ref><br />
<br />
== Technology ==<br />
Reddit was originally written in [[Common Lisp]] but was rewritten in [[Python (programming language)|Python]] in 2005.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2005/12/on-lisp.html "On lisp" blog post by Reddit founder "spez," detailing the reasons for switching to python from lisp]</ref> The reasons given for the switch were faster performance, wider access to [[Library (computing)|code libraries]], and greater development flexibility. The Python web framework that former reddit employee [[Aaron Swartz]] developed to run the site, ''web.py'', is now available as an open-source project.<ref>[http://webpy.org/ Official web.py site]</ref><br />
<br />
Reddit currently uses [[Pylons]] as its web framework.<ref>[http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/pylonscommunity/Sites+Using+Pylons Sites Using Pylons] - Pylons Community&nbsp;— PythonWeb</ref> The site was hosted on several [[Linux]] [[web server|servers]] running [[lighttpd]], HaProxy, and paster;<ref>[http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.reddit.com Netcraft report on reddit.com]</ref> however, as of November of 2009, Reddit has decommissioned their physical servers and migrated to [[Amazon Web Services]].<ref>http://blog.reddit.com/2009/11/moving-to-cloud.html Moving to the cloud on blog.reddit.com</ref><br />
In early 2009, Reddit started using [[jQuery]].<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2009/01/reddit-now-powered-by-jquery.html what's new on reddit: reddit now powered by jQuery] - Posted by Chris Slowe (keysersosa) (Friday, January 30, 2009) - blog.reddit</ref><br />
<br />
On February 18, 2009, Reddit released an [[iPhone]] Application for $1.99, which allows users to more easily navigate the site while using the iPhone. There were also several other reddit iPhone Applications made available, prior to the official application's release date. The first application was named "Satellite", which was released in November of 2008. It originally cost $4.99 but its price was later reduced to just $.99 after the release of the official Reddit application.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2009/01/i-read-it-on-ireddit-official-reddit.html Shortly after that was released, the guys at 3Cube Technologies released Satellite at <s>$4.99</s> now just $.99.] - Posted by alexis kn0thing at 16:43 on (February 14th, 2009)</ref> The second application, released in December of 2008 was called "Open Source Reddit", differing from Satellite by being free of charge. In June, 2010 the Reddit staff revamped the mobile site located at i.reddit.com. The new site features rewritten [[CSS]], a new color scheme, and a multitude of improvements.<ref>http://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/cd9ju/weve_revamped_reddits_mobile_site_let_us_know/</ref><br />
<br />
==Notable Community contributions==<br />
* Reddit user Alan Schaaf created the popular free image hosting site [[Imgur]]<br />
* Graphic artist Mike Mitchell created the "I'm with COCO" poster, which has subsequently been adopted by Conan O'Brian for his The Legally Prohibited From Being Funny On Television Tour.<br />
* The saving of various abused and stray animals (sometimes working in concert with other community websites)<br />
<br />
== See also ==<br />
* [[Diigo]]<br />
* [[Delicious (website)]]<br />
* [[Digg]]<br />
* [[Fark]]<br />
* [[Imgur]]<br />
* [[StumbleUpon]]<br />
* [[Slashdot]]<br />
* [[Social bookmarking]]<br />
* [[Web 2.0]]<br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
{{reflist}}<br />
<br />
== External links ==<br />
{{wikinews|Helen Thomas probes White House on torture; online community sends flowers}}<br />
*[http://reddit.com/ reddit]<br />
*[http://code.reddit.com/ Fixxit (reddit's code repository)]<br />
*[http://redditjobs.com/ reddit's job board]<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|-<br />
! subreddit search engines<br />
|-<br />
| [http://subredditfinder.com/ SubReddit Finder ]<br />
|-<br />
| [http://s272568090.onlinehome.us/reddit/karmanaut-redditmap.html Reddit User Karmanaut's bubble diagram]<br />
|-<br />
| [http://metareddit.com Metareddit]<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{{Advance Publications}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:News websites]]<br />
[[Category:Social bookmarking]]<br />
[[Category:Free software programmed in Python]]<br />
[[Category:News aggregators]]<br />
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[[ar:ريديت]]<br />
[[es:Reddit]]<br />
[[fr:Reddit]]<br />
[[it:Reddit]]<br />
[[ja:Reddit]]<br />
[[no:Reddit]]<br />
[[pl:Reddit]]<br />
[[pt:Reddit]]<br />
[[ru:Reddit]]<br />
[[simple:Reddit]]<br />
[[fi:Reddit]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Hmm...&diff=372235493User:Hmm...2010-07-07T16:29:35Z<p>Hmm...: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{busy}}<br />
<br />
<Insert famous and thoughtful quote><br />
<br />
<Insert witty joke or a pun of some sort><br />
<br />
<Insert statement seeking empathy and love from all><br />
<br />
<br />
<big>[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_administration| Wikipedia administration]]</big><br />
* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editor_assistance| Wikipedia:Editor assistance]]<br />
* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_user_conduct| Wikipedia user conduct]]<br />
: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Disruptive_editing| Disruptive editing]]<br />
:: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest| Conflict of interest]]<br />
: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_dispute_resolution| Wikipedia dispute resolution]]<br />
<br />
<big>[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_policies_and_guidelines| Wikipedia policies and guidelines]]</big><br />
* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_editing_guidelines| Wikipedia editing guidelines]]<br />
* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_content_guidelines| Wikipedia content guidelines]]<br />
: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories| Fringe theories]]<br />
* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_notability_guidelines| Wikipedia notability guidelines]]<br />
<br />
<big>[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_help| Wikipedia help]]</big></div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Hmm...&diff=372235460User:Hmm...2010-07-07T16:29:20Z<p>Hmm...: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{busy}}<br />
<br />
<Insert famous and thoughtful quote><br />
<br />
<Insert witty joke or a pun of some sort><br />
<br />
<Insert statement seeking empathy and love from all><br />
<br />
<br />
<big>[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_administration| Wikipedia administration]]</big><br />
* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editor_assistance| Wikipedia:Editor assistance]]<br />
* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_user_conduct| Wikipedia user conduct]]<br />
: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Disruptive_editing| :Disruptive editing]]<br />
:: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest| Conflict of interest]]<br />
: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_dispute_resolution| Wikipedia dispute resolution]]<br />
<br />
<big>[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_policies_and_guidelines| Wikipedia policies and guidelines]]</big><br />
* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_editing_guidelines| Wikipedia editing guidelines]]<br />
* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_content_guidelines| Wikipedia content guidelines]]<br />
: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories| Fringe theories]]<br />
* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_notability_guidelines| Wikipedia notability guidelines]]<br />
<br />
<big>[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_help| Wikipedia help]]</big></div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Hmm...&diff=372235025User:Hmm...2010-07-07T16:26:29Z<p>Hmm...: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{busy}}<br />
<br />
<Insert famous and thoughtful quote><br />
<br />
<Insert witty joke or a pun of some sort><br />
<br />
<Insert statement seeking empathy and love from all><br />
<br />
<br />
[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_administration| Wikipedia administration]]<br />
* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_user_conduct| Wikipedia user conduct]]<br />
: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Disruptive_editing| :Disruptive editing]]<br />
:: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest| Conflict of interest]]<br />
: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_dispute_resolution| Wikipedia dispute resolution]]<br />
<br />
[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_policies_and_guidelines| Wikipedia policies and guidelines]]<br />
* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_editing_guidelines| Wikipedia editing guidelines]]<br />
* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_content_guidelines| Wikipedia content guidelines]]<br />
: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories| Fringe theories]]<br />
* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_notability_guidelines| Wikipedia notability guidelines]]<br />
<br />
[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_help| Wikipedia help]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Takeru_Kobayashi&diff=372064076Takeru Kobayashi2010-07-06T17:41:41Z<p>Hmm...: /* Independence Day 2010 arrest */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{About|the Japanese competitive eater|other uses|Kobayashi}}<br />
<br />
{{Infobox person<br />
| name = Takeru Kobayashi<br />
| aka = Robbie<br />
| image = TakeruKobayashi.jpg<br />
| other_names = "The Tsunami"<br />
| birth_date = {{birth date and age|1978|03|15}}<br />
| birth_place = [[Nagano, Japan]] <br />
| height = {{height|ft=5|in=8}}<br />
| weight = {{convert|128|lb|kg|abbr=on}}-{{convert|192|lb|kg|abbr=on}}<br />
| website = [http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru-Kobayashi.com]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{nihongo|'''Takeru Kobayashi'''|小林尊|Kobayashi Takeru}} (born March 15, 1978) is a [[Japanese people|Japanese]] [[competitive eating|competitive eater]] and a member of the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]] (IFOCE). He held the [[world record]] for [[hot dog]] eating for nearly six years, and holds several other eating records, and is ranked third in the world for competitive eating according to the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]].<br />
==Competition and records==<br />
Born in [[Nagano, Nagano|Nagano]], [[Japan]], Kobayashi set his first record at his rookie appearance on July 4, 2001, when he ate 50 hot dogs in 12 minutes at the [[Nathan's]] [[Coney Island]] [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest|hot dog-eating contest]], doubling the previous record of 25. The record was so unexpected that when Kobayashi got to the later numbers, the organizers ran out of signs indicating how many dogs Kobayashi had eaten and had to resort to handwritten signs. Kobayashi would go on to break his own record three times in winning the contest six consecutive times (2001-2006).<br />
<br />
In 2004 and 2007, there was controversy over Kobayashi's performance when fellow competitors accused him of [[regurgitation (digestion)|regurgitating]] during the competition. Although regurgitation was not explicitly prohibited at the time, once food entered the mouth of a contestant it was not permitted to exit. However, judges did not find him guilty of any infractions and he was not penalized in either incident.<br />
<br />
On June 2, 2007, [[Joey Chestnut]] broke Kobayashi's record with 59.5 hot dogs and buns in a qualifying round for the annual Nathan's contest.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/04/hotdog.contest | title=Champ a top dog again with 49 weiners | work=CNN | author=Allan Chernoff; Adam Reiss; Shannon Troetel | date=4 July 2005 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | title=California man tops Kobayashi's hot dog record | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19004354/ | author=The Associated Press | work=MSNBC | date=2 June 2007|accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
In the 2006 Krystal Square Off, Kobayashi's mark of 97 [[hamburger]]s was 30 better than his winning total in 2005 and 28 better than the World Record he set in 2004. <br />
<br />
At a speed-eating contest in [[Hong Kong]] on August 13, 2005, Kobayashi consumed 83 vegetarian [[jiaozi]] dumplings in 8 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | title=Japan speed-eater in dumpling win | work=BBC News | date=14 August 2005 | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4149974.stm | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> The next day, he ate 100 [[baozi|roasted pork buns]] in 12 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | author=Monday Ng | title=Japan speed eater wolfs down 100 pork buns in 12 minutes | work=[[The Standard]] | date=15 August 2005 | url=http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Metro/GH15Ak02.html | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> Kobayashi also won the 2005 Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating, a three-hour [[IFOCE]] elimination tournament on [[ESPN]],<ref>{{cite news | title=Kobayashi Takes Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating | publisher=International Federation of Competitive Eating | date=31 July 2005 | url=http://www.ifoce.com/news.php?action=detail&sn=275 | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> as well as the [[Glutton Bowl]], a two-hour IFOCE eating special that aired on the [[Fox Network]] in 2002.<ref>{{cite web | author=Tama Miyake | title=Feature: Fast food | work=Metropolis Japan | url=http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/431/feature.asp | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | author=Amy Moon | title=Asian Pop: Superchomp Korean-born Sonya Thomas is the No. 1 ranked competitive eater in the USA. | work=[[San Francisco Chronicle]] | date=26 May 2005 | url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2005/05/26/eat.DTL | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> However, on Fox's 2003 show ''Man vs. Beast'', Kobayashi lost in an eating competition against a 1089-pound [[Kodiak bear]], when he ate 31 bunless hot dogs in 2 minutes and 36 seconds to the bear's 50.<ref>{{cite news | author=Larry Getlen| title=The Miracle That Is Kobayashi | url=http://www.blacktable.com/getlen050519.htm | work=The Black Table | date=19 May 2005| accessdate=23 February 2008}}</ref><br />
<br />
On August 5, 2006, Kobayashi set yet another world record at the [[Johnsonville Foods|Johnsonville]] World Bratwurst Eating Championship in [[Sheboygan, Wisconsin]], by downing 58 [[bratwurst]] sausages in 10 minutes, shattering the previous record of 35 set the previous year by [[Sonya Thomas]].<ref>{{cite news | author=The Associated Press | title=Kobayashi eats record 58 brats in Sheboygan | work=USA Today | date=5 August 2006 | url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2006-08-05-brat-record_x.htm | accessdate=1 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
On September 23, 2006, Takeru Kobayashi set the world record at the Phantom Food Festival in [[Boston, Massachusetts]], for eating 41 Summer Shack [[lobster]] rolls in 10 minutes, replacing the previous record of 22 rolls.<br />
<br />
Other world-eating records held by Kobayashi include 17.7 pounds of cow brains in 15 minutes and 20 pounds (9&nbsp;kg) of rice balls in 30 minutes.<br />
<br />
On June 25, 2007, Kobayashi announced on his blog that he seriously injured his jaw during training. He stated that he could only open his jaw about the width of a fingertip. Kobayashi's participation in the July 4, 2007, Nathan's contest continued as scheduled. He was able to eat a personal record 63 hot dogs, though his mark was bettered by Chestnut's 66.<ref>Agence France-Presse. "[http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21963756-5012895,00.html Jaw arthritis for hot-dog champ]." ''The Daily Telegraph''. June 25, 2007. Retrieved June 25, 2007.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2008, Kobayashi once again competed in the Nathan's contest. He and Chestnut reached a tie of 59 hot dogs and buns each, but he came in second to Chestnut in a 5-dog tiebreaker eatoff.<ref>[http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080706/FEAT0108/807060331 journalgazette.net, 3RF contest could be a wiener]</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi went on to defeat Chestnut, May 31, 2009, in a [[Pizza Hut]] [[P'zone|P'Zone]] competition at [[Sony Studios]] in [[Culver City]], [[California]]. The competition aired on [[Spike TV]] on June 21.<ref>Associated Press. "[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pizza_eating_contest]." ''The Associated Press'' . May 31, 2009. Retrieved June 2, 2009.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2009, he competed again in the Nathan's contest. While he reached 64.5 hot dogs and buns, Chestnut beat him by 3.5 with 68 hot dogs and buns.<ref>[http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272626801.shtml nationnaledger.com, Joey Chestnut Beats Takeru Kobayashi]</ref><br />
<br />
Also on July 2009, Kobayashi visited [[Puerto Rico]] in a special appearance for [[Taco Bell]]'s Why Pay More Challenge, eating 64 tacos in 15 minutes for a local charity.<br />
<ref>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJMm3ex9zg, http://www.blog.insula.tv/2009_07_01_archive.html] </ref><br />
<br />
==Training and techniques==<br />
Kobayashi expands his stomach for a competition by eating larger and larger amounts of food, and then exercises to ensure that fat will not impede expansion of his stomach during a competition.<ref>Talmadge, Eric. "[http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040625f2.htm Pigout champion Kobayashi limbers up for hot dog gold]." ''[[Japan Times]].'' June 25, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> <br />
<br />
Kobayashi's official web site gives his height as 173&nbsp;cm (5&nbsp;ft 8 in) and his weight as 75&nbsp;kg (165&nbsp;lb). However he's weighed as much as 87&nbsp;kg (191.8&nbsp;lb) according to a June 29, 2006 blog entry, and as little as 58&nbsp;kg (128&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition in 2008.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/07/03/2008-07-03_contenders_get_ready_for_nathans_hot_dog.html|title=Contenders get ready for Nathan's hot dog eating contest|date=3 July 2008|publisher=Associated Press|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref> As of July 4, 2009, Kobayashi weighed in at 60&nbsp;kg (132&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition on Coney Island.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2009/07/03/2009-07-03_man_bites_dog__with_one_winner.html|title=Arch rivals square off at Nathan's hot dog-eating weigh-in|date=3 July 2009|publisher=New York Daily News|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi is also known for his trademark body wiggle, referred to by some as the "Kobayashi Shake", to force food down his [[esophagus]] and settle more compactly in his stomach.<ref>Farley, David. "[http://www.timeout.com/newyork/DetailsAr.do?file=/eatout/433/433.eat.feat.html Curious Gorge]." ''[[Time Out (company)|Time Out]].'' January 15, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> He eats the hot dogs by splitting the [[frankfurter]] in half, swallowing both parts at once, and then dipping the buns in water, [[Sprite (soft drink)|Sprite]], or [[7-Up]] and stuffing it in his mouth. He calls this the Solomon method.<ref>Poon, William. "[http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC051262/William/hotdogeatingcontest.htm Nathan’s Famous Hotdog Eating Contest]." ''ThinkQuest.'' Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref><br />
<br />
==Records==<br />
===Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest===<br />
From 2001 to 2006, Kobayashi won [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest#Results|Nathan's Annual Hot Dog Eating Contest]] an unprecedented six times in a row. He held the record for hot dogs eaten in the competition from his first appearance until 2007, when current record holder [[Joey Chestnut]] claimed the first of four consecutive victories.<br />
<br />
====Annual results====<br />
[[File:Takeru Kobayashi Hot Dog Champ by David Shankbone.JPG|right|400px|thumb|Kobayashi's win record on Nathans Wall of Fame, 2007]]<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"<br />
|-<br />
! Year !! Place !! HDB's<br />(hot dogs & buns)<br />
|-<br />
|2001 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50*<br />
|-<br />
|2002 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2003 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 44.5<br />
|-<br />
|2004 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2005 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 49<br />
|-<br />
|2006 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.75*<br />
|-<br />
|2007 || 2nd || style="background:silver;" | 63<br />
|-<br />
|2008<sup>1</sup> || 2nd || style="background:silver;" | 59<br />
|-<br />
|2009 || 2nd || style="background:silver;" | 64.5<br />
|-<br />
|2010 || colspan="2" | DNC<br />(contract dispute) <br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<nowiki>*</nowiki> set new world record<br /><br />
Yellow = World record holder<br /><br />
<sup>1</sup> Contest time reduced from 12 to 10 minutes.<br />
<br />
===Glutton Bowl===<br />
Kobayashi ate 31 hot-dogs in the hot dog eating round, putting him into the finals. For the final round of the [[Glutton Bowl]], the contestants had to eat a bowl of brains. Kobayashi won with a finished plate of 55 brains.<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Hot Dog Champion (31 Hot Dogs)<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Main Event Champion (55 Brains)<br />
<br />
===Krystal Square Off===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Nathan's Wall of Fame by David Shankbone.JPG|right|400px|thumb|Nathan's Wall of Fame of contest winners, 2006.]]<br />
<br />
Kobayashi was also the reigning champion of the [[Krystal Square Off]] World Hamburger Eating Championship until 2007, when he could not compete due to a recent [[wisdom tooth]] extraction. The 2007 winner was [[Joey Chestnut]], who ate 103 hamburgers. <br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"<br />
|-<br />
! Year !! Place !! HDB's<br />(Hamburger)<br />
|-<br />
|2004 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 69<br />
|-<br />
|2005 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 67<br />
|-<br />
|2006 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 97<br />
|-<br />
|2008 || 3rd || style="background:Brown;" | 84<br />
|-<br />
|2009 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 93<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==Independence Day 2010 arrest==<br />
<br />
Kobayashi was arrested on July 4th, 2010, during the Nathan's International Hot Dog Eating Contest when he exited the police-barricaded spectator pen and entered the stage after the eating had ended. <br />
<br />
Having announced on June 28 that he would not complete due to a contract dispute, Kobayashi was observing the event among the crowd while wearing a "Free Kobi" shirt in protest. The contract would have barred him from competing in contests not sanctioned by [[Major League Eating]].<ref>[http://calorielab.com/news/2010/07/03/feds-grant-takeru-kobayashi-special-visa-for-extraordinary-ability/ Feds Grant Takeru Kobayashi Special Visa for “Extraordinary Ability”]</ref><br />
<br />
Although he was initially welcomed by co-host George Shea, security officers quickly ushered him offstage as he resisted vehemently, hanging on to the barricades and fences before being taken into custody. Though some witnesses reported that Kobayashi was attempting to congratulate the winner, [[Joey Chestnut]],<ref>{{cite news|url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/415463-chestnut-wins-for-4th-straight-year-kobayashi-arrested|title=Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest 2010: Joey Chestnut Wins for Fourth Year|date=4 July 2010|publisher= Bleacher Report|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> co-host and [[Major League Eating]] President Richard Shea, stated that "[Kobayashi] tried to jump on stage during the awards ceremony to disrupt it."<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/07/04/2010-07-04_joey_jaws_chestnut_wins_nathans_july_fourth_hot_dog_eating_contest.html|title=Joey 'Jaws' Chestnut wins Nathan's July Fourth Hot Dog Eating Contest|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NYDailyNews|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> With the crowd chanting “Let him eat! Let him eat!”, police handcuffed him. He was charged with resisting arrest, trespassing and obstructing governmental administration and spent the rest of the 4th of July in jail awaiting an appearance in Brooklyn Criminal Court.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/|title=Kobayashi arrested after Chestnut’s hot dog win|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NBC Sports|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi's interpreter and publicist, Maggie James said <br />
he had hoped the Coney Island crowd would recognize him and he could offer them an eating demonstration "for free". She said "There's a contract dispute, so they weren't giving him his freedom" <ref>http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi told reporters he had a sandwich and a glass of milk while being held.<br />
"I am very hungry," he said. "I wish there were hot dogs in jail." <ref>http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/news/story?id=5355723</ref><br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru Kobayashi official website]<br />
*[http://www.ifoce.com/eaters.php?action=detail&sn=22 Takeru Kobayashi] at the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]]<br />
*[http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/sioncampus/07/05/nathans.hotdog/index.html Sports Illustrated feature on 2006 contest]<br />
<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Kobayashi, Takeru}}<br />
[[Category:1978 births]]<br />
[[Category:Japanese competitive eaters]]<br />
[[Category:Living people]]<br />
[[Category:People from Nagano Prefecture]]<br />
[[Category:World record holders]]<br />
<br />
[[ca:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[es:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[eo:Kobayashi Takeru]]<br />
[[fr:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[ko:고바야시 다케루]]<br />
[[ja:小林尊]]<br />
[[pl:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[sv:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[zh:小林尊]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Takeru_Kobayashi&diff=372064004Takeru Kobayashi2010-07-06T17:41:12Z<p>Hmm...: /* Independence Day 2010 arrest */ clean up, heading is arrest so arrest first, removed some superfluous details are are irrelevant and unsubstantiated</p>
<hr />
<div>{{About|the Japanese competitive eater|other uses|Kobayashi}}<br />
<br />
{{Infobox person<br />
| name = Takeru Kobayashi<br />
| aka = Robbie<br />
| image = TakeruKobayashi.jpg<br />
| other_names = "The Tsunami"<br />
| birth_date = {{birth date and age|1978|03|15}}<br />
| birth_place = [[Nagano, Japan]] <br />
| height = {{height|ft=5|in=8}}<br />
| weight = {{convert|128|lb|kg|abbr=on}}-{{convert|192|lb|kg|abbr=on}}<br />
| website = [http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru-Kobayashi.com]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{nihongo|'''Takeru Kobayashi'''|小林尊|Kobayashi Takeru}} (born March 15, 1978) is a [[Japanese people|Japanese]] [[competitive eating|competitive eater]] and a member of the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]] (IFOCE). He held the [[world record]] for [[hot dog]] eating for nearly six years, and holds several other eating records, and is ranked third in the world for competitive eating according to the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]].<br />
==Competition and records==<br />
Born in [[Nagano, Nagano|Nagano]], [[Japan]], Kobayashi set his first record at his rookie appearance on July 4, 2001, when he ate 50 hot dogs in 12 minutes at the [[Nathan's]] [[Coney Island]] [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest|hot dog-eating contest]], doubling the previous record of 25. The record was so unexpected that when Kobayashi got to the later numbers, the organizers ran out of signs indicating how many dogs Kobayashi had eaten and had to resort to handwritten signs. Kobayashi would go on to break his own record three times in winning the contest six consecutive times (2001-2006).<br />
<br />
In 2004 and 2007, there was controversy over Kobayashi's performance when fellow competitors accused him of [[regurgitation (digestion)|regurgitating]] during the competition. Although regurgitation was not explicitly prohibited at the time, once food entered the mouth of a contestant it was not permitted to exit. However, judges did not find him guilty of any infractions and he was not penalized in either incident.<br />
<br />
On June 2, 2007, [[Joey Chestnut]] broke Kobayashi's record with 59.5 hot dogs and buns in a qualifying round for the annual Nathan's contest.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/04/hotdog.contest | title=Champ a top dog again with 49 weiners | work=CNN | author=Allan Chernoff; Adam Reiss; Shannon Troetel | date=4 July 2005 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | title=California man tops Kobayashi's hot dog record | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19004354/ | author=The Associated Press | work=MSNBC | date=2 June 2007|accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
In the 2006 Krystal Square Off, Kobayashi's mark of 97 [[hamburger]]s was 30 better than his winning total in 2005 and 28 better than the World Record he set in 2004. <br />
<br />
At a speed-eating contest in [[Hong Kong]] on August 13, 2005, Kobayashi consumed 83 vegetarian [[jiaozi]] dumplings in 8 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | title=Japan speed-eater in dumpling win | work=BBC News | date=14 August 2005 | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4149974.stm | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> The next day, he ate 100 [[baozi|roasted pork buns]] in 12 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | author=Monday Ng | title=Japan speed eater wolfs down 100 pork buns in 12 minutes | work=[[The Standard]] | date=15 August 2005 | url=http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Metro/GH15Ak02.html | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> Kobayashi also won the 2005 Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating, a three-hour [[IFOCE]] elimination tournament on [[ESPN]],<ref>{{cite news | title=Kobayashi Takes Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating | publisher=International Federation of Competitive Eating | date=31 July 2005 | url=http://www.ifoce.com/news.php?action=detail&sn=275 | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> as well as the [[Glutton Bowl]], a two-hour IFOCE eating special that aired on the [[Fox Network]] in 2002.<ref>{{cite web | author=Tama Miyake | title=Feature: Fast food | work=Metropolis Japan | url=http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/431/feature.asp | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | author=Amy Moon | title=Asian Pop: Superchomp Korean-born Sonya Thomas is the No. 1 ranked competitive eater in the USA. | work=[[San Francisco Chronicle]] | date=26 May 2005 | url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2005/05/26/eat.DTL | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> However, on Fox's 2003 show ''Man vs. Beast'', Kobayashi lost in an eating competition against a 1089-pound [[Kodiak bear]], when he ate 31 bunless hot dogs in 2 minutes and 36 seconds to the bear's 50.<ref>{{cite news | author=Larry Getlen| title=The Miracle That Is Kobayashi | url=http://www.blacktable.com/getlen050519.htm | work=The Black Table | date=19 May 2005| accessdate=23 February 2008}}</ref><br />
<br />
On August 5, 2006, Kobayashi set yet another world record at the [[Johnsonville Foods|Johnsonville]] World Bratwurst Eating Championship in [[Sheboygan, Wisconsin]], by downing 58 [[bratwurst]] sausages in 10 minutes, shattering the previous record of 35 set the previous year by [[Sonya Thomas]].<ref>{{cite news | author=The Associated Press | title=Kobayashi eats record 58 brats in Sheboygan | work=USA Today | date=5 August 2006 | url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2006-08-05-brat-record_x.htm | accessdate=1 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
On September 23, 2006, Takeru Kobayashi set the world record at the Phantom Food Festival in [[Boston, Massachusetts]], for eating 41 Summer Shack [[lobster]] rolls in 10 minutes, replacing the previous record of 22 rolls.<br />
<br />
Other world-eating records held by Kobayashi include 17.7 pounds of cow brains in 15 minutes and 20 pounds (9&nbsp;kg) of rice balls in 30 minutes.<br />
<br />
On June 25, 2007, Kobayashi announced on his blog that he seriously injured his jaw during training. He stated that he could only open his jaw about the width of a fingertip. Kobayashi's participation in the July 4, 2007, Nathan's contest continued as scheduled. He was able to eat a personal record 63 hot dogs, though his mark was bettered by Chestnut's 66.<ref>Agence France-Presse. "[http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21963756-5012895,00.html Jaw arthritis for hot-dog champ]." ''The Daily Telegraph''. June 25, 2007. Retrieved June 25, 2007.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2008, Kobayashi once again competed in the Nathan's contest. He and Chestnut reached a tie of 59 hot dogs and buns each, but he came in second to Chestnut in a 5-dog tiebreaker eatoff.<ref>[http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080706/FEAT0108/807060331 journalgazette.net, 3RF contest could be a wiener]</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi went on to defeat Chestnut, May 31, 2009, in a [[Pizza Hut]] [[P'zone|P'Zone]] competition at [[Sony Studios]] in [[Culver City]], [[California]]. The competition aired on [[Spike TV]] on June 21.<ref>Associated Press. "[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pizza_eating_contest]." ''The Associated Press'' . May 31, 2009. Retrieved June 2, 2009.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2009, he competed again in the Nathan's contest. While he reached 64.5 hot dogs and buns, Chestnut beat him by 3.5 with 68 hot dogs and buns.<ref>[http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272626801.shtml nationnaledger.com, Joey Chestnut Beats Takeru Kobayashi]</ref><br />
<br />
Also on July 2009, Kobayashi visited [[Puerto Rico]] in a special appearance for [[Taco Bell]]'s Why Pay More Challenge, eating 64 tacos in 15 minutes for a local charity.<br />
<ref>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJMm3ex9zg, http://www.blog.insula.tv/2009_07_01_archive.html] </ref><br />
<br />
==Training and techniques==<br />
Kobayashi expands his stomach for a competition by eating larger and larger amounts of food, and then exercises to ensure that fat will not impede expansion of his stomach during a competition.<ref>Talmadge, Eric. "[http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040625f2.htm Pigout champion Kobayashi limbers up for hot dog gold]." ''[[Japan Times]].'' June 25, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> <br />
<br />
Kobayashi's official web site gives his height as 173&nbsp;cm (5&nbsp;ft 8 in) and his weight as 75&nbsp;kg (165&nbsp;lb). However he's weighed as much as 87&nbsp;kg (191.8&nbsp;lb) according to a June 29, 2006 blog entry, and as little as 58&nbsp;kg (128&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition in 2008.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/07/03/2008-07-03_contenders_get_ready_for_nathans_hot_dog.html|title=Contenders get ready for Nathan's hot dog eating contest|date=3 July 2008|publisher=Associated Press|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref> As of July 4, 2009, Kobayashi weighed in at 60&nbsp;kg (132&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition on Coney Island.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2009/07/03/2009-07-03_man_bites_dog__with_one_winner.html|title=Arch rivals square off at Nathan's hot dog-eating weigh-in|date=3 July 2009|publisher=New York Daily News|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi is also known for his trademark body wiggle, referred to by some as the "Kobayashi Shake", to force food down his [[esophagus]] and settle more compactly in his stomach.<ref>Farley, David. "[http://www.timeout.com/newyork/DetailsAr.do?file=/eatout/433/433.eat.feat.html Curious Gorge]." ''[[Time Out (company)|Time Out]].'' January 15, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> He eats the hot dogs by splitting the [[frankfurter]] in half, swallowing both parts at once, and then dipping the buns in water, [[Sprite (soft drink)|Sprite]], or [[7-Up]] and stuffing it in his mouth. He calls this the Solomon method.<ref>Poon, William. "[http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC051262/William/hotdogeatingcontest.htm Nathan’s Famous Hotdog Eating Contest]." ''ThinkQuest.'' Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref><br />
<br />
==Records==<br />
===Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest===<br />
From 2001 to 2006, Kobayashi won [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest#Results|Nathan's Annual Hot Dog Eating Contest]] an unprecedented six times in a row. He held the record for hot dogs eaten in the competition from his first appearance until 2007, when current record holder [[Joey Chestnut]] claimed the first of four consecutive victories.<br />
<br />
====Annual results====<br />
[[File:Takeru Kobayashi Hot Dog Champ by David Shankbone.JPG|right|400px|thumb|Kobayashi's win record on Nathans Wall of Fame, 2007]]<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"<br />
|-<br />
! Year !! Place !! HDB's<br />(hot dogs & buns)<br />
|-<br />
|2001 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50*<br />
|-<br />
|2002 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2003 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 44.5<br />
|-<br />
|2004 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2005 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 49<br />
|-<br />
|2006 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.75*<br />
|-<br />
|2007 || 2nd || style="background:silver;" | 63<br />
|-<br />
|2008<sup>1</sup> || 2nd || style="background:silver;" | 59<br />
|-<br />
|2009 || 2nd || style="background:silver;" | 64.5<br />
|-<br />
|2010 || colspan="2" | DNC<br />(contract dispute) <br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<nowiki>*</nowiki> set new world record<br /><br />
Yellow = World record holder<br /><br />
<sup>1</sup> Contest time reduced from 12 to 10 minutes.<br />
<br />
===Glutton Bowl===<br />
Kobayashi ate 31 hot-dogs in the hot dog eating round, putting him into the finals. For the final round of the [[Glutton Bowl]], the contestants had to eat a bowl of brains. Kobayashi won with a finished plate of 55 brains.<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Hot Dog Champion (31 Hot Dogs)<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Main Event Champion (55 Brains)<br />
<br />
===Krystal Square Off===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Nathan's Wall of Fame by David Shankbone.JPG|right|400px|thumb|Nathan's Wall of Fame of contest winners, 2006.]]<br />
<br />
Kobayashi was also the reigning champion of the [[Krystal Square Off]] World Hamburger Eating Championship until 2007, when he could not compete due to a recent [[wisdom tooth]] extraction. The 2007 winner was [[Joey Chestnut]], who ate 103 hamburgers. <br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"<br />
|-<br />
! Year !! Place !! HDB's<br />(Hamburger)<br />
|-<br />
|2004 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 69<br />
|-<br />
|2005 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 67<br />
|-<br />
|2006 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 97<br />
|-<br />
|2008 || 3rd || style="background:Brown;" | 84<br />
|-<br />
|2009 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 93<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==Independence Day 2010 arrest==<br />
<br />
Kobayashi was arrested on July 4th, 2010, during the Nathan's International Hot Dog Eating Contest when he exited the police-barricaded spectator pen and entered the stage after the eating had ended. <br />
<br />
Having announced on June 28 that he would not complete due to a contract dispute, Kobayashi was observing the event among the crowd while wearing a "Free Kobi" shirt in protest. The contract would have barred him from competing in contests not sanctioned by [[Major League Eating]]<ref>[http://calorielab.com/news/2010/07/03/feds-grant-takeru-kobayashi-special-visa-for-extraordinary-ability/ Feds Grant Takeru Kobayashi Special Visa for “Extraordinary Ability”]</ref><br />
<br />
Although he was initially welcomed by co-host George Shea, security officers quickly ushered him offstage as he resisted vehemently, hanging on to the barricades and fences before being taken into custody. Though some witnesses reported that Kobayashi was attempting to congratulate the winner, [[Joey Chestnut]],<ref>{{cite news|url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/415463-chestnut-wins-for-4th-straight-year-kobayashi-arrested|title=Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest 2010: Joey Chestnut Wins for Fourth Year|date=4 July 2010|publisher= Bleacher Report|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> co-host and [[Major League Eating]] President Richard Shea, stated that "[Kobayashi] tried to jump on stage during the awards ceremony to disrupt it."<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/07/04/2010-07-04_joey_jaws_chestnut_wins_nathans_july_fourth_hot_dog_eating_contest.html|title=Joey 'Jaws' Chestnut wins Nathan's July Fourth Hot Dog Eating Contest|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NYDailyNews|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> With the crowd chanting “Let him eat! Let him eat!”, police handcuffed him. He was charged with resisting arrest, trespassing and obstructing governmental administration and spent the rest of the 4th of July in jail awaiting an appearance in Brooklyn Criminal Court.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/|title=Kobayashi arrested after Chestnut’s hot dog win|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NBC Sports|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi's interpreter and publicist, Maggie James said <br />
he had hoped the Coney Island crowd would recognize him and he could offer them an eating demonstration "for free". She said "There's a contract dispute, so they weren't giving him his freedom" <ref>http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi told reporters he had a sandwich and a glass of milk while being held.<br />
"I am very hungry," he said. "I wish there were hot dogs in jail." <ref>http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/news/story?id=5355723</ref><br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru Kobayashi official website]<br />
*[http://www.ifoce.com/eaters.php?action=detail&sn=22 Takeru Kobayashi] at the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]]<br />
*[http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/sioncampus/07/05/nathans.hotdog/index.html Sports Illustrated feature on 2006 contest]<br />
<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Kobayashi, Takeru}}<br />
[[Category:1978 births]]<br />
[[Category:Japanese competitive eaters]]<br />
[[Category:Living people]]<br />
[[Category:People from Nagano Prefecture]]<br />
[[Category:World record holders]]<br />
<br />
[[ca:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[es:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[eo:Kobayashi Takeru]]<br />
[[fr:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[ko:고바야시 다케루]]<br />
[[ja:小林尊]]<br />
[[pl:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[sv:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[zh:小林尊]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sogyal_Rinpoche&diff=372059175Talk:Sogyal Rinpoche2010-07-06T17:10:56Z<p>Hmm...: /* Controversies */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{WPBiography|living=yes|class=Start|priority=|listas=Rinpoche, Sogyal}}<br />
{{WikiProject Buddhism|class=Start}}<br />
{{WikiProject Tibetan Buddhism|class=start|importance=mid}}<br />
<br />
==Tutor==<br />
I am a bit confused. It says that he was tutored by Dzongsar Khyentse Choki Lodro, but then it refers to Jamyang Khyentse. I thought he was referred to as Jamyang Khyentse Chöki Lodro, and that his incarnation was Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche. Where have I gone wrong?--[[User:Goffperu|Goffperu]] 21:48, 2 June 2006 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==POV==<br />
"one of the most renowned teachers of our time" This statement is definitely not NPOV [[User:Davidreid|Davidreid]] 05:02, 9 July 2006 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Reports==<br />
Indeed. In Sogyal Rinpoche's case *some* reports are disturbing:<br />
http://www.well.com/conf/media/SF_Free_Press/nov11/guru.html <br />
Greg Walkerden 22 Sep 06<br />
<br />
==Civil suit==<br />
What is the name of the civil suit that this article says was filed? I can't find it on FindLaw. Thanks! <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:137.142.98.102|137.142.98.102]] ([[User talk:137.142.98.102|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/137.142.98.102|contribs]]) 17:59, 12 October 2006 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned2 --><br />
<br />
==Useful Article by Mick Brown==<br />
<br />
From what I've seen, this is the definitive article on SR and allegations of sexual harassment:<br />
<br />
Mick Brown, "The Precious One", ''Telegraph Magazine'', 2 February 1995, pp.20-29.<br />
<br />
Not available on the internet as far as I know. [[User:Johnfos|Johnfos]] 01:40, 27 February 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Removing links warning==<br />
<br />
This article only has one external link and the links warning comment is overkill. Not standard and not necessary... [[User:Johnfos|Johnfos]] ([[User talk:Johnfos|talk]]) 21:29, 4 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<!--===========================({{NoMoreLinks}})===============================--> <br />
<!--| DO NOT ADD MORE LINKS TO THIS ARTICLE. WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A COLLECTION OF |--> <br />
<!--| LINKS. If you think that your link might be useful, do not add it here, |--> <br />
<!--| but put it on this article's discussion page first or submit your link |--> <br />
<!--| to the appropriate category at the Open Directory Project (www.dmoz.org)|--> <br />
<!--| and link back to that category using the {{dmoz}} template. |--> <br />
<!--| |--> <br />
<!--| Links that have not been verified WILL BE DELETED. |--> <br />
<!--| See [[Wikipedia:External links]] and [[Wikipedia:Spam]] for details |--> <br />
<!--===========================({{NoMoreLinks}})===============================--> <br />
<br />
:Sorry, I disagree. This was put there after a lot of spammy links were removed, if I recall. It ''is'' a standard template, [[:Template:NoMoreLinks]]. People tend to put lists of dharma centers, projects, etc., etc., etc. on the articles of Lamas which are not appropriate. The only links present should be to sites which have more biographical information on the subject. [[User talk:GlassFET|GlassFET]] 22:24, 4 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::There haven't been lots of spammy links on this page for ages. You can't seriously think of adding a No more links template to a page that has only one external link? [[User:Johnfos|Johnfos]] ([[User talk:Johnfos|talk]]) 22:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::At the time it was added, there was a reason. There is no reason why it should not be kept. As far as I know, there are no other serious biographies of the subject online. Do you have a specific link to propose? [[User talk:GlassFET|GlassFET]] 22:33, 4 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::By the way, I don't know why you keep adding it to this talk page, it's in comments, it can't be seen. [[User talk:GlassFET|GlassFET]] 22:44, 4 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::After saying that there were no more useful links to include, you have now added three more pro-Rinpoche links, making a total of 4 pro links. Please be aware that this will most likely attract the attention of those who will seek to redress this imbalance. [[User:Johnfos|Johnfos]] ([[User talk:Johnfos|talk]]) 01:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Whatever you say.... the critical links are all contained in the references... [[User talk:GlassFET|GlassFET]] 18:29, 5 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
::::The external links section is not for "pro-and-con" (and it's certainly not required that every "positive" link in an article be balanced with a "negative" one - all that's necessary is that the available information be summarized in as neutral a way as possible). The criticisms are dealt with in the article and linked in the references. If people feel tempted to repeat all the reference links in the external links section, or add critical links without confirming their reliability, well, that's a good reason to have NoMoreLinks, isn't it? Please also keep in mind [[WP:BLP]]. - [[User:AdelaMae|AdelaMae]] <sup>([[User_talk:AdelaMae|t]] - [[Special:Contributions/AdelaMae|c]] - [[WP:WPN|wpn]])</sup> 23:28, 5 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Third opinion ===<br />
Having a hidden comment requesting that users exercise caution doesn't seem like a big deal. It simply reminds people of [[WP:EL]] and [[WP:SPAM]], and says that ''if'' "there are already plentiful links" to propose additions or replacements on the talk page. There are a lot of other issues to be resolved in this article. Debating such a minor issue as this only serves to distract from handling the larger disagreements and concerns. [[User:Vassyana|Vassyana]] ([[User talk:Vassyana|talk]]) 13:35, 7 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Criticism ==<br />
From my reading this article is in breach of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biographies_of_living_persons Biographies of living persons guidelines] on a number of counts. I thought it best to discuss here first before reporting it on the "Biographies of Living Persons Noticeboard" or just deleting the offending passages. In brief, the criticism section is in breach I believe for the following reasons:<br /><br />
'''*Relevance to notability'''<br />
*From the guidelines: :Criticism and praise of the subject should be represented if it is relevant to the subject's notability and can be sourced to reliable secondary sources". Sogyal Rinpoches notability is related to being a buddhist teacher, not sure that an allegation that never went to court is relevant or worthy of noting in an encyclopedia.<br />
'''*Reliable sources'''<br />
*The sources quoted in the criticism section breach the guidelines for biographies too. The primary source for the alleged filing of a court case is the "San Francisco Free Press" which was a blog instituted by some of the journalists who were on strike when the newspaper was closed down. So it does not comply with the guideline thatit be "subject to the newspaper's full editorial control". <br />
'''*Avoid repeating gossip'''<br />
*From the wikipedia biography guidelines:"Avoid repeating gossip. Ask yourself whether the source is reliable; whether the material is being presented as true; and whether, even if true, it is relevant to an encyclopedia article about the subject. When less-than-reliable publications print material they suspect is untrue, they often include weasel phrases and attributions to anonymous sources. Look out for these. If the original publication doesn't believe its own story, why should we?"<br />
*The Guardian and SF Free press cite anonymous sources<br />
'''*Neutral Point of View'''<br />
*There appears to be repeated attempts to highlight criticism from these poor sources including elevating these aspects to the introductory paragraph. To elevate these poorly sourced references to the introductory paragraph does not suggest a neutral point of view. The history of this page suggests a continued struggle between editors trying to maintain neutrality versus highlight criticism - it seems to me that the wikipedia guidelines for an encyclopedic approach to biographies would resolve this antagonism.<br />
*Interested in other views. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cranberryzap|Cranberryzap]] ([[User talk:Cranberryzap|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cranberryzap|contribs]]) 23:10, 19 December 2008 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
<br />
:Cranberryzap, I have just read over the lead multiple times and can't for the life of me find any "poorly sourced references" or criticism. The only source citations in the lead are for Rigpa's own website. Can you be more specific? As for your other concerns, the allegations against Rinpoche are certainly relevant to his status as a Buddhist teacher, since that status involves an expectation of ethical conduct. The allegations are not given undue weight; they are addressed in a brief Criticism section three quarters of the way down the page. I notice that there's a Telegraph Magazine article cited there that you may have missed. And surely, you can't be claiming that the Guardian doesn't count as a reliable source? - [[User:AdelaMae|AdelaMae]] <sup>([[User_talk:AdelaMae|t]] - [[Special:Contributions/AdelaMae|c]] - [[WP:WPN|wpn]])</sup> 10:23, 22 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thanks AdelaMae for responding. I was not suggesting the Guardian is not a reliable source as newspapers go.But the source must still be judged in terms of reliability as a reference for an encyclopedia and the reference to the newspaper article must be accurate. My discussion above was perhaps not concrete enough, so to be concrete: I propose that the following sentence and its references be deleted because when one follows the references there is no support for the sentence - " A susbtantial sum was paid to the plaintiff.[30][31][32]"[[User:Cranberryzap|Cranberryzap]] ([[User talk:Cranberryzap|talk]]) 10:40, 12 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />Since there has only been one response to the discussion I have raised above I tried to place this on the Biography of Living Persons Noticeboard but because it was semi-protected my post appears to have been lost.<br />
<<br />I believe we need to maintain the high standard of Wikipedia and note that Wikipedia has recently received good reviews for adherence to editorial policy compared to the Guardian [http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/web/2009/05/12/1241893953955.html Wikipedia passed - Journalism flunked ]. Given I have left this discussion thread open for 6 months, I now propose an edit.<br />
<br />'''I propose to change the entire criticism section to the following to ensure compliance with Wikipedia policy: '''<br />
<br />"In 1995 an online blog [31] alleged that a $10 million civil lawsuit was filed against Sogyal Rinpoche claiming "physical, mental and sexual abuse" by an anonymous plaintiff known as "Janice Doe". In December 1995, the issue was settled out of court through mediation.[30- suggest delete - broken link][31 - suggest delete this reference as it does not mention settlement]][32 - cant find this reference either]"<br />
<br />I will await further discussion, but otherwise will make the changes in approximately 6 weeks. Very happy if someone is able to get this posted to the "Biographies of Living Persons Noticeboard".--[[User:Cranberryzap|Cranberryzap]] ([[User talk:Cranberryzap|talk]]) 04:11, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Criticism is generally not placed in the lead, especially when it is simply unproven allegations settled out of court. The material is already in the article elsewhere. <br />
<br />
Ahem, unproven allegations? It may have been settled out of court but that does not in anyway diminish the seriousness of Sogyal Rinpoche's conduct. Clearly, the victim was too fragile to endure months of having to give public testimony. Note that she has never come out and bared her soul in the media, she has remained anonymous due to the gravity of the experience.[[Special:Contributions/203.214.4.25|203.214.4.25]] ([[User talk:203.214.4.25|talk]]) 04:49, 10 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
I don't particularly like the "timeline" format of the article and would not object to a separate "Criticism" section to call it out. That's how it is done in most [[WP:BLP|Biographies of living people]]. [[User talk:GlassFET|GlassFET]] 23:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I agree. I would like the timeline format changed to the usual wiki style. Putting the Criticism section in is a good first step. I like it where it now is. Also the Criticism section needs to be expanded to specifically mention that the lawsuit was a $10million one. This is an important detail that is missing.[[User:Sereness|Sereness]] ([[User talk:Sereness|talk]]) 04:32, 15 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Name ==<br />
*[http://www.nitartha.org/cgi-bin/find]<br />
:Wylie: Bsod-rgyal<br />
In the above dictionary Bsod is not to be found, but you can find some meaning for rgyal.<br />
<br />
I sometimes wondered about the name, whether there is a difference between Sogyal and Tsogyal or Tsogyel.<br />
:Austerlitz -- [[Special:Contributions/88.72.0.25|88.72.0.25]] ([[User talk:88.72.0.25|talk]]) 11:08, 10 August 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Austerlitz, The ''bsod'' is short for ''bsod-nams'', which will be in the dictionary above. Sogyal Rinpoche's name is ''bsod-nams rgyal-mtshan''. His predecessor, Tertön Sogyal, was called ''bsod-nams rgyal-po''. Neither has anything to do with Ye-shes mtsho-rgyal. --[[User:Orgyen108|Orgyen108]] ([[User talk:Orgyen108|talk]]) 13:02, 10 August 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
There are many statements confirming Sogyal Rinpoche as an incarnation of Terton Sogyal, and indicating how Jamyang Khyentse cared for him like his own son. See, for example, the section on Rinpoche in Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche's history of the Dzogchen lineage translated [http://www.lotsawahouse.org/sogyal_rinpoche_bio.html here] --[[User:Orgyen108|Orgyen108]] ([[User talk:Orgyen108|talk]]) 19:07, 12 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Teachings ==<br />
Shouldn't some of his teachings be mentioned? For example this one? [http://spiritofmaat.com/archive/sep2/rinpoche.htm Tonglen], [http://www.seattlebuddhistcenter.org/], [http://books.google.de/books?id=GiqLazCQkIAC&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=One+taste+in+Buddhism&source=bl&ots=vPtSss8t1n&sig=LoUoloEXrLDOiz1YAUjKseIBrdw&hl=de&ei=csn-SfLKKc-Z_Aah3ZW0BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5].<br />
:Austerlitz -- [[Special:Contributions/88.75.213.180|88.75.213.180]] ([[User talk:88.75.213.180|talk]]) 11:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
There also is a wikilink [[Tonglen]].<br />
:Austerlitz -- [[Special:Contributions/88.75.213.180|88.75.213.180]] ([[User talk:88.75.213.180|talk]]) 11:44, 4 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Criticism section continued==<br />
<br />
''I've moved some text from above which was getting lost up there:'' [[User:Johnfos|Johnfos]] ([[User talk:Johnfos|talk]]) 01:05, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Cranberryzap said:<br><br />
'''I propose to change the entire criticism section to the following to ensure compliance with Wikipedia policy:'''<br />
"In 1995 an online blog [31] alleged that a $10 million civil lawsuit was filed against Sogyal Rinpoche claiming "physical, mental and sexual abuse" by an anonymous plaintiff known as "Janice Doe". In December 1995, the issue was settled out of court through mediation.[30- suggest delete - broken link][31 - suggest delete this reference as it does not mention settlement]][32 - cant find this reference either]"<br />
<br />
I will await further discussion, but otherwise will make the changes in approximately 6 weeks. Very happy if someone is able to get this posted to the "Biographies of Living Persons Noticeboard".--Cranberryzap (talk) 04:11, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Reference 32 is the Mick Brown article in the Telegraph Magazine. A very reliable source by a well-known journalist and author. When you say you can't find this reference, what do you mean? I have a copy in front of me and it is readily available through libraries, etc. It is a long, thoughtful and detailed analysis of the situation and something you should read before suggesting major changes to the article or posting on the Biographies of Living Persons Noticeboard. [[User:Johnfos|Johnfos]] ([[User talk:Johnfos|talk]]) 01:05, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
To shorten the criticism section to the above is to hide the mutiple allegations in the public domain and thecontinuing scandal and is therefore disingenuous.'An online blog'??? Deceptive. Mick brown article pdf avilable on Dialogue ireland wordpress. Also M Finnigan's article in the guardian, the one from the san francisco free press and, most recently, the irish edition of the Sunday Times. are all worthy references. To hide these is interpretable as a politcal con trick[[Special:Contributions/94.192.139.167|94.192.139.167]] ([[User talk:94.192.139.167|talk]]) 09:13, 24 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Cranberryzap said:<br><br />
'''I propose to change the entire criticism section to the following to ensure compliance with Wikipedia policy:'''<br />
"In 1995 an online blog...<br />
This shows how you dont understand WP procedures. Blogs are not considered 3rd party reliable sources (3PS)The newspapers above on the other hand ARE considered 3PS. So please dont tinker-WP is not a place for Rigpa propaganda[[Special:Contributions/94.192.139.167|94.192.139.167]] ([[User talk:94.192.139.167|talk]]) 18:10, 24 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
==Criticism== <br />
<br />
on Sogyal Rinpoche<br />
<br />
I think the Criticism section is written in a gossip journalist style and refers to sources that are not necessary reliable, since the journalists lack clearly awareness on Buddhism. <br />
<br />
"Supporters have argued that lamas of the Nyingma school are not required to take vows of celibacy, and indeed Sogyal Rinpoche does not claim to be a celibate monk." As a student of Sogyal Rinpoche and alarmed of these 'news' I have personally asked around about it from close students who have been around for decades (since 70´s): they have not witnessed any of such claimed actions to have happened. No-one knows the true events that have taken place or reasons behind them. Sogyal Rinpoche doesn't ever comment on it and the legal issue was settled. The students publicly spoke about dealing with issues like this gossip in France summer 2009, because it shocks people fundamentally and unnecessarily. It is mainly speculation, but one should be always aware of cultural differences.<br />
<br />
This is also some piece of text that has been there for a long time as criticism of Tibetan Buddhist morals and shows that the purpose of this information is not to be 'neutral': "The central role model of the [[Nyingma]] school, its founder [[Padmasambhava]], had five principal tantric consorts who were also his students." I and any Tibetan Buddhist could tell you this: Padmasambhava didn't have relationships with them at the same time and there was no power abuse, since the women were adults and high ranking persons in society: Princess [[Mandarava]] and [[Yeshe Tsogyal]]. The main female disciple Yeshe Tsogyal became the main holder of Padmasambhava's teachings <ref>http://www.rangjung.com/books/dakini-teachings.htm</ref>.<br />
<br />
In the article, where 'Critisism' refers to, it says also: "The Dalai Lama has known about this for years and done nothing. There is a real code of secrecy and silence," said Barlow.<ref>http://www.well.com/conf/media/SF_Free_Press/nov11/guru.html</ref> This is not true. HH Dalai Lama has publicly spoken about the issue and given advice over 10 years ago in Dharamsala, where there were many Westerners and Tibetan lamas including Sogyal Rinpoche present. His Holiness nevertheless gives his support to Sogyal Rinpoche - for his constant efforts to preserve Tibetan tradition and to teach Western people. HH Dalai Lama said in 2008 that he would visit Lerab Ling again soon. Journalist Mick Brown accepts in his article comments from an informant, who is not very well aware about the state of affairs. Does Wikipedia accept gossip newspapers as a reliable source? Did people ever wonder who is publishing these articles tiredlessly in the web and why, when so many people are benefitting enourmously from Sogyal Rinpoches teachings? <br />
<br />
Finnigan <ref>http://www.flameout.org/flameout/gurus/sogyal_sexualhealing.html</ref> refers to Ngakpa Chogyam Rinpoche <ref>http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/The_Mother_Essence_Lineage,_by_Ngakpa_Chogyam_Rinpoche</ref> as a spokesperson in her article. This shows me and many Buddhists that she doesn't really know what she is doing. Ngakpa Chogyam Rinpoche and his group has nothing to do with any other Tibetan Buddhist groups. They are a separate group which doesn't practice Dharma in the traditional Tibetan way. They begin their practice in high level practices like [[Chöd]] without doing preliminaries [[Ngöndro]] first like one should according to the Tibetan tradition. Preliminaries usually take months or years to finish. It's easy to lure young people into some 'ghost hunting' without understanding the basics of the teachings. So 'Cool'?<br />
<br />
Wikipedia wants to hold on to the Criticism section in order to be 'good people' and warning new comers. I must say that I have been studying with Sogyal Rinpoche for 8-9 years now and should inform you all that it is impossible to have private conversations with Sogyal Rinpoche. People are asked to write their questions down on a paper or ask in public. He has thousands of students and really no time for 'private intimate chats'. I have NEVER seen him behaving in any other way than being a great tiredless spiritual teacher. I hope this information helps people calm down.<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{Reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
== Integration of criticism ==<br />
<br />
Since the criticism section is already written in proseline, I've moved the text into the 1990s section of the biography and deleted the criticism section. All text was retained. One one-sentence paragraph was concatenated with the previous paragraph. Since criticism sections attract vandalism and npov violations, they are discouraged in all articles, especially BLPs. --[[User:Gimme danger|Danger]] ([[User talk:Gimme danger|talk]]) 06:12, 20 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Sorry for my recent confusion with this. Yes, I think the criticism should be integrated with the main text, as it is now. [[User:Johnfos|Johnfos]] ([[User talk:Johnfos|talk]]) 21:27, 13 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Edits to contentious material, per [[WP:BLP]]==<br />
I have edited the article in an effort to keep it compliant with BLP. First, I have replaced a deadlink with an archived one. I have replaced some sourced material that is not viewable online with material that is. Some detail has been lost, but I could not find the article anywhere. If the article is located, please be careful in restoration of [[Wikipedia:Words to avoid]]: "pointed out" suggests a POV. From similar concerns, I have neutralized the word argued and clarified that this is not a statement of fact: "In 1995, a young English woman attended one of Sogyal Rinpoche's residential retreats and was led to believe she had been singled out for special attention, only to discover that she was being invited to join a harem." --[[User:Moonriddengirl|Moonriddengirl]] <sup>[[User talk:Moonriddengirl|(talk)]]</sup> 20:48, 22 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for helping with this. When you say that you "could not find the article anywhere" which article are you referring to? Do you mean that you could not find it online, or just could not find it period? [[User:Johnfos|Johnfos]] ([[User talk:Johnfos|talk]]) 21:04, 22 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I have restored one sourced paragraph which went missing. [[User:Johnfos|Johnfos]] ([[User talk:Johnfos|talk]]) 21:23, 25 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Controversies ==<br />
<br />
In 1994, a $10 million<ref name=Finnigan> Finnigan, Mary. "Sexual healing," ''[[The Guardian]]'', 10th January 1995, p. 19</ref> civil lawsuit was filed against Sogyal Rinpoche. It was alleged that over a period of many years, Rinpoche had used his position as a spiritual leader to induce some of his female students to have [[coitus]] with him. The complaint included counts of intentional infliction of emotional distress, breach of [[fiduciary duty]], as well as assault and battery. In December 1995, the issue was [[Settlement (litigation)|settled out of court]] through mediation.<ref>Simpkinson, Anne. [http://web.archive.org/web/20080625095554/http://www.advocateweb.org/HOPE/soulbetrayal.asp "Soul Betrayal"] Common Boundary, Inc. November/December 1996.</ref><ref name=Lattin>Lattin, Don. [http://www.well.com/conf/media/SF_Free_Press/nov11/guru.html "Best-selling Buddhist author accused of sexual abuse."] The San Francisco Free Press, 10 November 1994.</ref><ref name=Mick>[[Mick Brown (journalist)|Brown, Mick]]. "The Precious One", ''Telegraph Magazine'', 2 February 1995, pp.20-29.</ref> <br />
<br />
Subsequently, additional reports surfaced of students who "claimed that they had felt obliged to have a sexual relationship with their teacher."<ref>{{cite web | last = Oakley | first = Richard | title = Shock at lama Sogyal Rinpoche's past: President McAleese distances herself from spiritual leader accused of abuse | date = July 4, 2009 | work = [[The Times|The Sunday Times]] | accessdate = 2009-12-22}}</ref> In 1995, a young English woman said she had attended one of Sogyal Rinpoche's residential retreats and been led to believe she had been singled out for special attention, only to discover that she was being invited to join a harem. "At first I was flattered, and very open and trusting. He encouraged me to fall in love with him - but I realised he was toying with me. I noticed several other young, pretty women going in and out of his apartment; when I confronted him with this, he dropped me and ignored me for the rest of the time I was there."<ref name=Finnigan /> <br />
<blockquote> <br />
Sogyal Rinpoche's need for a partner is not in question... Rather the issue concerns the inappropriateness of sexual relationships with his students. In the West it is not considered ethical to engage in sex within the confines of a pastoral or teacher-student relationship where there are clear power imbalances.<ref name=Mick/> <br />
</blockquote> <br />
Supporters of Sogyal Rinpoche state that lamas of the [[Nyingma]] school are not required to take vows of [[celibacy]], and indeed Sogyal Rinpoche does not claim to be a celibate monk.<ref name=Lattin /> As a Tibetan lama however, Sogyal certainly holds tantric vows, vows which prohibit ordinary sexual activity with unqualified partners.<ref>http://medicinebuddhasangha.org/teachings/three_vows_2.html</ref><br />
:You are confusing voluntary sex with sexual harassment and abuse of power. Similarly, doctors are not to have relationships with patients, professors with students or lawyers with their clients.[[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 17:10, 6 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sogyal_Rinpoche&diff=372058379Sogyal Rinpoche2010-07-06T17:05:35Z<p>Hmm...: /* The 1990s and Controversies */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Infobox religious biography<br />
|background = #FFD068 | color = black<br />
|name = Sogyal Rinpoche<br />
|image = {{#if:Sogyal Rinpoche Prayer.jpg|[[Image:Sogyal Rinpoche Prayer.jpg|{{#ifeq:{{lc:}}|yes|{{min|300|{{#if:{{#ifexpr:180}}|300|180}}}}x200|{{min|220|{{#if:{{#ifexpr:180}}|300|180}}}}}}px|]]}}<br />
|caption = <br />
|birth name = <br />
|alias = <br />
|dharma name = <br />
|date of birth = 1947<br />
|place of birth = [[Kham]], [[Tibet]]<br />
|date of death = <br />
|place of death = <br />
|nationality = <br />
|religion = [[Tibetan Buddhism]]<br />
|school = [[Dzogchen]], [[Nyingma]]<br />
|lineage = <br />
|title = [[Rinpoche]]<br />
|location = <br />
|education = [[Trinity College, Cambridge]]<br />
|occupation = <br />
|teacher = [[Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö]]<br />
|reincarnation of = [[Tertön Sogyal]]<br />
|predecessor = <br />
|successor = <br />
|students = <br />
|spouse = <br />
|partner = <br />
|children = <br />
|website = www.rigpa.org<br />
}}{{Tibetan Buddhism}}<br />
'''Sogyal Rinpoche''' ({{bo-tw|t=བསོད་རྒྱལ་|w=Bsod-rgyal}}) (born 1947) is a [[Tibet]]an [[Dzogchen]] [[Lama]] of the [[Nyingma]] tradition. He has been teaching for over 30 years and continues to travel widely in [[Europe]], [[United States|America]], [[Australia]] and [[Asia]].<ref>[http://www.rigpa.org/Sogyal_Rinpoche.html Rigpa.org: Sogyal Rinpoche]</ref> He is also the founder and spiritual director of [[Rigpa]]—an international network of over 100 Buddhist centres and groups in 23 countries around the world—and the author of the best-selling book ''[[The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying]]'', which has been printed in 30 languages and 56 countries.<ref>[http://www.rigpa.org/Tibetan_Book_of_Living_and_Dying.html Rigpa.org: The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying]</ref> In addition, Rinpoche is a frequent speaker at major conferences in all areas of society, including medicine and healing, universities and educational institutions, interfaith dialogue, movements for [[peace]] and [[non-violence]], the world of business and leadership, and the field of serving the dying and [[hospice]] care.<br />
<br />
==Biography==<br />
====Early life====<br />
Born 1947 in the region of [[Kham]] by Mayum Tsering Wangmo <ref>[http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Mayum_Tsering_Wangmo Rigpawiki: Mayum Tsering Wangmo]</ref>, in Eastern Tibet, Sogyal Rinpoche was recognized as the incarnation of Lerab Lingpa [[Tertön Sogyal]], a teacher to the [[Thirteenth Dalai Lama]], by [[Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö]] of the [[Rime movement]]. Jamyang Khyentse supervised his training and raised him as a son. When conditions deteriorated in Kham, Khyentse Rinpoche and his young disciple left for Central Tibet and [[Lhasa]], where in 1955, for the first time, they met [[Tenzin Gyatso]], His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama. They then continued to [[India]] on pilgrimage, and finally settled in [[Gangtok]] at the invitation of the [[Chögyal]], the king of [[Sikkim]]. Rinpoche attended Catholic School in [[Kalimpong]], and then university in [[Delhi]] before coming to the west.<ref>Bachelor, Stephen. ''The Awakening of the West: The Encounter of Buddhism and Western Culture''. London: Aquarian Press/ Berkeley: Parallax Press, 1994. p.79</ref><br />
<br />
====1970s====<br />
In 1971, he was granted a place to study [[comparative religion]] at [[Trinity College, Cambridge]] as a visiting scholar.<ref>Bachelor, Stephen. ''The Awakening of the West: The Encounter of Buddhism and Western Culture''. London: Aquarian Press, Berkeley: Parallax Press, 1994. p.79</ref> He continued to study with many masters, of all schools of Tibetan Buddhism, especially His Holiness [[Dudjom Rinpoche]] and His Holiness [[Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche]]. [[Trulshik Rinpoche]] (born 1923) is one of his teachers, too.<br />
<br />
In 1973, he assisted in organizing His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s first ever visit to the West, in Rome—including a visit with [[Pope Paul VI]], [[Switzerland]] and the [[United Kingdom]]. The following year he began to teach in [[London]], creating his first [[Dharma centre]], called Orgyen Chöling, in north-west London in 1974.<br />
<br />
Rinpoche soon began teaching in [[Paris]] and often translated for His Holiness Dudjom Rinpoche, whom he also accompanied to the [[United States]] in 1976. In the summer of 1977, Rinpoche's London centre, known as Dzogchen Orgyen Chöling, found a home at Princess Road in [[Kilburn, London|Kilburn]]. Many great masters taught there: Dudjom Rinpoche, when he taught for a whole month in London in 1979, His Holiness [[Sakya Trizin]], [[Gyalwang Karmapa]], [[Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche]] and others.<br />
<br />
In 1979, Sogyal Rinpoche chose the name [[Rigpa]]—the innermost, essential nature of mind—for his work.<ref>'The History of Rigpa', ''The Rigpa Journal'', volume 2</ref><br />
<br />
====1980s====<br />
[[Image:Sogyal Rinpoche, Joan Halifax, Richard Gere.jpg|thumb|right|Left to right: Sogyal Rinpoche, [[Joan Halifax]] and [[Richard Gere]] ([[Switzerland]], 1985)]]<br />
By 1980, Rinpoche was teaching in the United States, [[Holland]] and [[Ireland]], as well as in [[France]] and the UK. Gradually, he opened centres in a number of major cities around the world. In many places, study and practice groups evolved and in each country Rigpa was established as a non-profit organization.<br />
<br />
At Sogyal Rinpoche's and Rigpa’s request, His Holiness the Dalai Lama granted the empowerment of [[Padmasambhava]] and his Eight Manifestations from the pure visions of the ‘Great Fifth’ Dalai Lama at the Pagode de Vincennes in Paris in 1982.<ref>His Holiness the Dalai Lama. 2004. ''Dzogchen: The Heart Essence of the Great Perfection. Snow Lion Publications.</ref><br />
<br />
In 1983, Rinpoche participated in the ‘New Dimensions in Death and Dying’ conference in [[California]]. This brought Rinpoche in touch with the work of Dr. [[Elisabeth Kübler-Ross]] and Professor [[Kenneth Ring]] in the fields of hospice care and near-death research. This inspired Rinpoche to explore further the role that the Tibetan teachings on death and helping the dying could play in transforming modern attitudes towards to death.<br />
<br />
In 1987, Rinpoche was invited to become spiritual director of the centre in Co. Cork in the west of Ireland that was to become Dzogchen Beara, Rigpa’s long-term retreat facility.<ref>[http://www.dzogchenbeara.org/index.php?pid=2 DzogchenBeara.org: About Us]</ref> The first closed one-year retreats, following a traditional Tibetan schedule of practice and study, began there in 1994.<br />
<br />
In 1989, Sogyal Rinpoche was asked to help organize His Holiness the Dalai Lama's visit to [[San Jose, California]]. Five and a half thousand people, from all traditions and from all over the United States and other countries, attended in what at that time was the largest gathering of practitioners and masters of Buddhadharma in America, and possibly in the West. To mark this occasion, Rinpoche wrote ''Dzogchen and Padmasambhava''.<ref>His Holiness the Dalai Lama. 2004. ''Dzogchen: The Heart Essence of the Great Perfection.'' Snow Lion Publications.</ref><br />
<br />
====The 1990s and Controversies====<br />
Every year, Rinpoche would return to [[India]] and [[Nepal]] in order to receive teachings from his masters and seek their advice and clarification. In time he began to teach the Tibetan community in exile in India and [[Sikkim]], especially the young people. Rigpa was established in Delhi in 1990 and Rigpa House opened in 1995.<br />
<br />
In August 1990, Sogyal Rinpoche and Rigpa hosted [[Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche]] on his final visit to the West, together with a large gathering of Tibetan Buddhist teachers at Prapoutel, a ski resort in the French Alps. The retreat was attended by 1500 people. Over ten days, he gave the most important empowerments and teachings for the complete practice of the Nyingma path and Dzogchen.<ref>[http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Prapoutel_1990 Rigpa Wiki: Prapoutel 1990]</ref><br />
<br />
In 1991, Sogyal Rinpoche founded the retreat centre of [[Lerab Ling]] near [[Montpellier]] in southern [[France]]. The first three-month retreat was held there in 1992.<ref>[http://www.lerabling.org/index.php?pid=2 LerabLing.org: About Lerab Ling]</ref><br />
<br />
In 1992,''[[The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying]]'' was published.<br />
<br />
In 1993, Christine Longaker established the Spiritual Care Program which is based on the teachings of Sogyal Rinpoche and demonstrates practical ways in which the compassion and wisdom of the Buddhist teachings can be of benefit to those facing illness or death and also to their families and medical caregivers.<ref>Longaker, Christine. 1998. ''Facing Death and Finding Hope: A Guide To The Emotional and Spiritual Care Of The Dying. Main Street Books.''</ref><ref>[http://www.rigpa.org/Spiritual_care.html Rigpa.org:Spiritual Care]</ref><br />
<br />
Sogyal Rinpoche appeared in the 1993 film ''[[Little Buddha]]'' by [[Bernardo Bertolucci]] in the role of Kenpo Tenzin.<ref>{{imdb name|0727749}}</ref><br />
<br />
In 1994, a $10 million<ref name=Finnigan> Finnigan, Mary. "Sexual healing," ''[[The Guardian]]'', 10th January 1995, p. 19</ref> civil lawsuit was filed against Sogyal Rinpoche. It was alleged that over a period of many years, Rinpoche had used his position as a spiritual leader to induce some of his female students to have sexual relations with him. The complaint included accusations of infliction of emotional distress, breach of [[fiduciary duty]], as well as assault and battery. In December 1995, the issue was [[Settlement (litigation)|settled out of court]] through mediation.<ref>Simpkinson, Anne. [http://web.archive.org/web/20080625095554/http://www.advocateweb.org/HOPE/soulbetrayal.asp "Soul Betrayal"] Common Boundary, Inc. November/December 1996.</ref><ref name=Lattin>Lattin, Don. [http://www.well.com/conf/media/SF_Free_Press/nov11/guru.html "Best-selling Buddhist author accused of sexual abuse."] The San Francisco Free Press, 10 November 1994.</ref><ref name=Mick>[[Mick Brown (journalist)|Brown, Mick]]. "The Precious One", ''Telegraph Magazine'', 2 February 1995, pp.20-29.</ref> <br />
<br />
Subsequently, additional reports surfaced of students who "claimed that they had felt obliged to have a sexual relationship with their teacher."<ref>{{cite web | last = Oakley | first = Richard | title = Shock at lama Sogyal Rinpoche's past: President McAleese distances herself from spiritual leader accused of abuse | date = July 4, 2009 | work = [[The Times|The Sunday Times]] | accessdate = 2009-12-22}}</ref> In 1995, a young English woman said she had attended one of Sogyal Rinpoche's residential retreats and been led to believe she had been singled out for special attention. "At first I was flattered, and very open and trusting. He encouraged me to fall in love with him - but I realised he was toying with me. I noticed several other young, pretty women going in and out of his apartment; when I confronted him with this, he dropped me and ignored me for the rest of the time I was there."<ref name=Finnigan /><br />
<br />
Supporters of Sogyal Rinpoche state that lamas of the [[Nyingma]] school are not required to take vows of [[celibacy]], and indeed Sogyal Rinpoche does not claim to be a celibate monk.<ref name=Lattin /><br />
<br />
In 1999, at Sogyal Rinpoche's request, Kyabjé [[Trulshik Rinpoche]], the heart son of Dudjom Rinpoche and [[Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche]], gave a series of empowerments at Lerab Ling, and taught in [[San Francisco]], [[New York]] and London. He also founded the basis for a monastic [[sangha]] within Rigpa by ordaining the first nuns. At the same time, Rigpa Australia acquired land for a new retreat centre at [[Blueys Beach]], on the east coast near Sydney. With some three thousand people already following courses worldwide, 1999 also marked the beginning of a complete, long-term review of the programme for study and practice within Rigpa. Rinpoche has said that his vision is to set in place an authentic, accessible Buddhist study foundation for modern people, based on classical Buddhist teachings and the advice of teachers of all schools, both the senior masters as well as some of the brilliant younger teachers so attuned to modern times.<br />
<br />
====After 2000====<br />
[[File:Sogyal Rinpoche LL AMR 2006.jpg|thumb|Rinpoche teaching in Lerab Ling, France, 2006]]<br />
In 2000, Sogyal Rinpoche hosted His Holiness the Dalai Lama at Lerab Ling, Rigpa's main retreat centre in France. His Holiness taught on "The Path to Enlightenment" and the event was attended by up to 10,000 students of Tibetan Buddhism from around the world.<ref>[http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Lerab_Gar_2000 Rigpa Wiki:Lerab Gar 2000]</ref> The teachings given by His Holiness the Dalai Lama have been published in a book entitled ''Mind in Comfort and Ease: The Vision of Enlightenment in the Great Perfection''.<ref>[http://wisdompubs.org/Pages/display.lasso?-KeyValue=32980&-Token.Action=&image=1 Wisdom Publications: Mind in Comfort and Ease]</ref>.<br />
<br />
In 2001, Sogyal Rinpoche began the Rigpa Shedra, or study college.<ref>[http://www.rigpashedra.org RigpaShedra.org: Welcome to the Rigpa Shedra]</ref> During October 2001, together with Father [[Laurence Freeman]] OSB of the [[World Community for Christian Meditation]], Rinpoche also led an interfaith conference at [[Dublin Castle]] in Ireland entitled "Finding Compassion in our Changing World". Three hundred people from Christian, Buddhist and other faiths attended the event.<ref>Roetting, Martin. [http://www.buddhist-christian-studies.org/dec01.txt 'Interfaith Seminar at Dublin Castle 6th-7th Oct 2001.'] NetworkInfo-Magazine of European Network of Buddhist Christian Studies.</ref><ref>[http://www.wccm.org/images/PDF/Newsletters/NL302LetterSm.pdf The World Community for Christian Meditation.] Christian Meditation Newsletter. International Edition, Vol. 30, No. 2, July 2006</ref><br />
<br />
In 2002, Rinpoche started the on-going Practical Wisdom leaders retreats and programme for top Australian CEO's and other leaders in the fields of the Arts and Education to enable them to explore the Buddhist teachings and integrate the principles of wisdom and compassion into their workplaces.<ref>Davies, Julie-Anne. [http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=269839 'The Buddha Business.'] ''The Bulletin'', 1 June 2007.</ref><br />
<br />
In 2003, 'The First Conference of Tibetan Buddhist Dharma Centers in the Americas' was held in [[upstate New York]]. Rinpoche led the first plenary session on "The Experience and Challenge of Teaching and Studying Buddhism in the Americas".<ref>[http://www.tibetoffice.org/en/index.php?url_channel_id=84&url_publish_channel_id=1332&url_subchannel_id=86&well_id=2 The Office of Tibet], New York City</ref> <br />
<br />
In 2004, Rinpoche served as a keynote speaker at 'The Parliament of the World's Religions', where over 8,000 religious leaders and lay people gathered in [[Barcelona]] in [[Spain]] to discuss the issues of religious violence, access to safe water, the fate of [[refugee]]s worldwide, and the [[debt relief|elimination]] of [[developing countries]]' debts.<ref>[http://www.cpwr.org/2004Parliament/dialogues.htm The Parliament of the World's Religions 2004]</ref><br />
<br />
In May 2005, Sogyal Rinpoche founded Rigpé Yeshé, at the first international family retreat and conference, 'Educating Children in the Dharma', to support families who wish to bring up their children in light of the teachings of the Buddha.<ref>[http://www.rigpeyeshe.org/background.htm RigpeYeshe.org: Background]</ref> "Rigpe Yeshe, sometimes mis-spelled Rigpa Yeshé, is an association of parents who are members of the Rigpa sangha, following the teachings of Buddha under the direction of Sogyal Rinpoche." One of the aims cited on the website reads like following: ''Bring the authentic and appropriate dharma to children, teenagers and families of the Rigpa Sangha, accomplishing Sogyal Rinpoche’s vision of bringing up children in the wisdom of rigpa;'' <ref>http://www.rigpeyeshe.org/background.htm</ref><br />
<br />
In 2006, a traditional three-storey temple at Lerab Ling was completed, including a seven-metre high statue of [[Buddha Shakyamuni]], and Rinpoche started Rigpa's first three-year retreat with over 400 hundred people taking part, and over 3000 students following a 'home retreat' programme in their own countries.<ref>[http://www.rigpa.org/Courses.html Rigpa.org: Courses and Retreats]</ref><br />
<br />
In 2007, ground was broken for the Spiritual Care Centre at Dzogchen Beara, designed as a place where people facing illness or death can come for periods of rest in a welcoming and healing atmosphere. Sogyal Rinpoche is the Spiritual Director. Dr. [[Balfour Mount]] is a patron.<ref>[http://www.spiritualcare.ie/index.php?pid=162 The Spiritual Care Centre at Dzogchen Beara, Who are we?]</ref><br />
<br />
On 12 September 2007, the [[President of Ireland]], [[Mary McAleese]], visited Dzogchen Beara, along with Sogyal Rinpoche, to give an address in support of the Spiritual Care Centre that is in process there. <ref>[http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2007/0913/1189076237990.html The Irish Times, 'President Visits Buddhist Hospice']</ref><br />
<br />
On 21 August 2008, His Holiness the Dalai Lama visited Lerab Ling, Lodève for the temple consecration ceremony, together with many Tibetan spiritual masters and guests from other fields, including Madame Sarkozy, the First Lady of France.<ref>http://www.dalailama.com/news.289.htm</ref><br />
<br />
==Publications==<br />
====Books====<br />
*Sogyal Rinpoche, ''The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying'', ISBN 0-06-250834-2<br />
*Sogyal Rinpoche, ''Dzogchen and Padmasambhava'', Rigpa Publications, 1990, ISBN 0-96-248840-2<br />
*Sogyal Rinpoche, ''Glimpse After Glimpse'', ISBN 0712662375, ISBN 978-0712662376<br />
*Sogyal Rinpoche, ''The Future of Buddhism'', Rider & Co, 2002, ISBN 0-71-261564-4<br />
<br />
====Articles and contributions====<br />
*''Himalaya: Personal Stories of Grandeur, Challenge and Hope'', National Geographic Books, 2006<br />
*Jonathon Cott, ''On the Sea of Memory: A Journey from Forgetting to Remembering'', Random House, 2005, ISBN 1-40-006058-3<br />
*Reginald A. Ray (ed.), ''The Pocket Tibetan Buddhist Reader'', Shambhala Publications, Boston, Mass. 2004, ISBN 1-57-062851-3<br />
*Kathryn Meeske (Author), Sandra Scales (Photographer), ''Sacred Voices of the Nyingma Masters'', Padma Publishing, California, 2004, ISBN 1-88-184735-7<br />
*Charles A. Tart, ''Living a Mindful Life, A Handbook for Living in the Present Moment'', Shambhala Publications, Boston, Mass. 1994, ISBN 978-1570620034<br />
<br />
====Forewords and introductions====<br />
*''Biography of Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche'' (forthcoming).<br />
*His Holiness the Dalai Lama, ''Mind in Comfort and Ease'', Wisdom Publications, 2007, ISBN 0-86-171493-8<br />
*Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche, ''Blazing Splendor: The Memoirs of Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche'', North Atlantic Books, 2005, ISBN 9-62-734156-8 <br />
*Don Farber, ''Portraits of Tibetan Buddhist Masters'', University of California Press 2005, ISBN 0-52-023973-3<br />
*Nyoshul Khenpo Jamyang Dorje (translated by [[Richard Barron]]), ''A Marvelous Garland of Rare Gems: Biographies of Masters of Awareness in the Dzogchen Lineage (A Spiritual History of the Teachings on Natural Great Perfection)'', Padma Publications, 2005, ISBN 1-88-184741-1<br />
*Tsoknyi Rinpoche, ''Fearless Simplicity: The Dzogchen Way of Living Freely in a Complex World'', Rangjung Yeshe Publications, Nepal, 2003, ISBN 9-62-734148-7<br />
*His Holiness the Dalai Lama, ''Dzogchen: The Heart Essence of the Great Perfection'', Snow Lion Publications, 2000, ISBN 1-55-939219-3<br />
*Khenpo Namdrol ''The Practice of Vajrakilaya'', Snow Lion Publications, 1999, ISBN 1-55-939103-0<br />
*Christine Longaker, ''Facing Death and Finding Hope: A Guide to the Emotional and Spiritual Care of the Dying'', Arrow Books, 1998, ISBN 0-09-917692-0<br />
*Mordicai Gerstein, ''The Mountains of Tibet'', Harper Trophy, 1989, ISBN 0-06-443211-4<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{Reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.rigpa.org/Sogyal_Rinpoche.html The Official Biography of Sogyal Rinpoche]<br />
*[http://www.lotsawahouse.org/sogyal.html Lotsawa House Biography of Sogyal Rinpoche]<br />
*[http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Sogyal_Rinpoche Sogyal Rinpoche - Rigpa Wiki]<br />
*[http://www.buddhanet.net/masters/sogyal.htm Buddhist Masters and Their Organisations: Sogyal Rinpoche]<br />
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[[sv:Sogyal Rinpoche]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:West_Bank&diff=372053523Talk:West Bank2010-07-06T16:35:39Z<p>Hmm...: /* Legality Confusion */</p>
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<br />
== British recognition and Geneva Convention ==<br />
<br />
Unlike the rest of the article, which is actually fairly balanced, the opening paragraph is dreadfully one-sided. This ought to be rectified by a senior editor. As for British recognition of Jordanian annexation as opposed to occupation, this was limited to de facto recognition, not extended to de jure recognition. The same was done with lands occupied by Israel and not designated as part of the Jewish state by the UN Partition Plan. If you want the original document, here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UKrecognizesIsraelJordan.pdf<br />
:: I suggest you read the document more carefully. UK gave ''de jure'' recognition except in the case of Jerusalem, for which it gave ''de facto'' recognition (both for Jordan and Israel). [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 07:38, 5 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
During my university studies on this issue, I have also run into references about Pakistani recognition of Jordanian annexation. I have however so far failed to find an official government document extending such recognition in either English or Arabic. Perhaps there is an internal Urdu document, but I do not know Urdu. Perhaps someone familiar with Pakistani government archival databases may add to this discussion.<br />
<br />
:: I added a citation on this. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 07:38, 5 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As for the comment concerning concerning the Fourth Geneva Convention, it may be of value to add that the issue at hand is contained in an additional protocol, to which Israel, among several other countries, including the US, is not signatory. The standing of this additional protocol is unclear at best. In addition, international law does not differentiate between Israeli military occupation and Jordanian military occupation. Suggesting a line of reasoning where any and all Israeli migration to the West Bank and construction would be categorically illegal, would at once make several groups of Palestinians into illegal settlers according to this convention. This would include 1) Palestinians who took up residence in the West Bank after the armistice talks of January 1949 who were not resident there prior to the fighting, 2) Any foreign national who took up residence since 1949 (Mostly Jordanian citizens, but also Egyptian and assorted others. 3) Arab Israelis who moved to the West Bank since 1967. The convention is also unclear as to differentiation between areas from which Jewish refugees were removed in 1948 by force at the hands of the Jordanian Legion (Kfar Etzion and the Jewish Quarter in East Jerusalem for example) and those with no Jewish population prior to 1948. These matters are definitely contentious, but that is exactly why readers of Wikipedia ought to be able to see all sides of it, reaching an informed decision. Any rational observer would see then, I think, that neither the Israeli, nor the Palestinian position is wholly and categorically defensible. [[Special:Contributions/132.229.189.116|132.229.189.116]] ([[User talk:132.229.189.116|talk]]) 15:31, 26 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: You are mistaken. The relevant text is Article 49 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, which was fully ratified by Israel on 25/07/1951 to take effect 06/01/1952. [http://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%2096/v96.pdf] [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 07:38, 5 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:You sound like someone who would be a useful contgributor.--[[User:Peter cohen|Peter cohen]] ([[User talk:Peter cohen|talk]]) 21:16, 26 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes I quite agree that the opening is heavily biased, but the rest of the article approaches neutrality. Also, the article does not appear to make any mention that some of the settlements are reconstructions of previous Jewish residences that were expelled by Jordan between 1948 and 1967. This would include [[Gush Etzion]] and [[Kiryat Arba]] near [[Hebron]]. How can it be illegal to rebuild what was there prior to 1948? [[User:Metallurgist|Metallurgist]] ([[User talk:Metallurgist|talk]]) 04:02, 5 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:And wouldn't an occupation require a country or part of a country to be occupied? As the Jordanian claim to the WB was never recognised by the UN nor the international community, AND the WB never was a country, what are Israel occupying? Jordan? They have waived their claim. A part of Britain? They recognised Jordan's claim, which was later waived. The Ottoman empire? Long gone. I think the first paragraph must be rewritten, but not by me. I'm biased. [[User:Letriste1977|Letriste1977]] ([[User talk:Letriste1977|talk]]) 21:52, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::No, see the ICJ opinion in the Wall case. Some relevant quotes:<blockquote>(p. 35) The territories situated between the Green Line (see paragraph 72 above) and the former eastern boundary of Palestine under the Mandate were occupied by Israel in 1967 during the armed conflict between Israel and Jordan. Under customary international law, these were therefore occupied territories in which Israel had the status of occupying Power. Subsequent events in these territories, as described in paragraphs 75 to 77 above, have done nothing to alter this situation. All these territories (including East Jerusalem) remain occupied territories and Israel has continued to have the status of occupying Power.</blockquote>They go on to reject the specific argument that because Jordan's sovereignty over the West Bank was not recognized that Israel is not the occupying power in pages 39-45. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 22:23, 10 March 2010 (UTC)</font></small><br />
<br />
== Second paragraph of History section ==<br />
<br />
This is getting more and more garbled and uses a reference which goes to a dead link:<br />
{{quote|Contrary to popular belief the West bank was not officialy annexed by Jordan.,<ref>[http://www.tau.ac.il/jcss/memoranda/memo55.pdf Beyond the Veil, Israel-Pakistan Relations] P. R. Kumuraswami.</ref> assumed to have recognized it also).}}<br />
So did Jordan annexe it or not and who recgnised it if they did?--[[User:Peter cohen|Peter cohen]] ([[User talk:Peter cohen|talk]]) 15:09, 1 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:The IPs edit is incorrect, Jordan did annex the territory but it was only recognized by the UK and by Pakistan. See [http://books.google.com/books?id=nyl9BoCABEsC&pg=PA78#v=onepage&q=&f=false]. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 16:39, 1 March 2010 (UTC)</font></small><br />
::Thanks for fixing this, Nableezy.--[[User:Peter cohen|Peter cohen]] ([[User talk:Peter cohen|talk]]) 11:42, 2 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: Actually it seems to be a myth that Pakistan recognised it. Adding cite... [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 06:03, 5 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
== Infobox ==<br />
<br />
We should add an infobox with details on the area, population etc. of the West Bank.[[User:Bless sins|Bless sins]] ([[User talk:Bless sins|talk]]) 13:40, 6 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== request for change ==<br />
<br />
how come the pic at the top of the article says palestinian authority governance and dosen't show the israeli settlements, and how come it makes it seem as if the palestinians control jerusalem. it also makes it seem that he palestinians control all of the west bak when truthfully they only control some areas. i think that this pic is misleading and bias and should be replaced.--[[User:Marbehtorah-marbehchaim|Marbehtorah-marbehchaim]] ([[User talk:Marbehtorah-marbehchaim|talk]]) 06:14, 30 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I'll try to get a better image. I remember seeing a CIA produced, 2008 interpreted map from SPOT 5 data over the whole West Bank a few weeks ago. Their data is very high quality and public domain. I'll put it in commons once I've found it and converted it from the jp2 format they use. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 06:25, 30 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Got it but jp2 -> jpg takes it over the commons 100mb limit at 122mb. Converting at 90% quality takes it to ~46mb and it looks fine to me so I'll upload it. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 06:38, 30 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
[[File:West Bank July 2008 CIA remote-sensing map.jpg|200px|thumb|The map is now available in commons.<br>Suggested caption, something like...<br>"[[CIA]], [[SPOT_(satellites)#SPOT_5|SPOT 5]] remote sensing imagery acquired July 2004, created/published July 2008. Map shows areas interpreted by the CIA as Israeli settlements, Israeli claimed settlement municipal areas, Israeli-military installation areas, Palestinian-populated areas and UNRWA refugee camps together with the West Bank barrier and the various 'Areas of control'<ref name="g7512w ct002357">{{cite web|url=http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.gmd/g7512w.ct002357|title=g7512w ct002357|date=2008-07|publisher=CIA|accessdate=30 April 2010}}</ref>"]]<br />
Image could be used in addition to the existing one or the one in Template:West_Bank could be replaced with this one.<br />
Note that I included a ref in the suggested caption.<br />
<small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 07:53, 30 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
i think this is a much better pic.--[[User:Marbehtorah-marbehchaim|Marbehtorah-marbehchaim]] ([[User talk:Marbehtorah-marbehchaim|talk]]) 19:41, 30 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hebrew name ==<br />
<br />
The Hebrew name in the introduction section was recently changed by {{User0|Lionessofgd}} from "הגדה המערבית" to "יהודה ושומרון" (''The West Bank'' and ''Judea and Samaria'', respectively). Both names refer to the same area, but have different political values. I asked an Israeli, and according to him (supported by the article [[Judea and Samaria]]) the latter is the commonly used term in Israel, especially among right-wing people, whereas Hebrew speaking Palestinians and left-wing people use the former.<br />
<br />
Which name is more appropriate to use in the introduction section? The name used by Hebrew speaking people (i.e. Israelis) isn't necessarily the proper Hebrew term. Given the controversial status of the area, I thought it might be a good idea to discuss this. ~ [[User:HannesP|HannesP]] ([[User talk:HannesP|talk]]) 22:07, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
: Some way of including both seems appropriate. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 04:33, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:They don't refer to the same area. The West Bank includes East Jerusalem. J&S doesn't.--[[User:Peter cohen|Peter cohen]] ([[User talk:Peter cohen|talk]]) 13:09, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I've changed it back for now. There is a question whether we need a Hebrew expression at all. The terminology clearer comes from the Arabic expression adopted by Transjordan. If the Israelis avoided referring to the whole West Bank as such, then why include a term they don't use?--[[User:Peter cohen|Peter cohen]] ([[User talk:Peter cohen|talk]]) 13:17, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Legality Confusion==<br />
<br />
Excuse my ignorance, but this paragraph makes no sense:<br />
<br />
The current status arises from the facts (see above reference) that Great Britain surrendered its mandate in 1948. Since the area has never in modern times been an independent state, there is no "legitimate" claimant to the area other than the present occupier, which currently happens to be Israel.<br />
<br />
So is this paragraph supposed to suggest that only an existence of a modern state would allow the Palestinians a claim? This seems to contradict the claims that many Israelis have towards Israel as a land that belonged to them since ancient times. Also, is this supposed to suggest that the state of Palestine was neither modern nor a state dominated by Palestinians? Also why is legitimate in quotations? This entire paragraph seems to imply that after the British left, they left behind a vacuum, which would have allowed any nation to stake a claim on it regardless of its past history.<br />
<br />
[[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 16:34, 6 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:West_Bank&diff=372053407Talk:West Bank2010-07-06T16:34:56Z<p>Hmm...: </p>
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<br />
== British recognition and Geneva Convention ==<br />
<br />
Unlike the rest of the article, which is actually fairly balanced, the opening paragraph is dreadfully one-sided. This ought to be rectified by a senior editor. As for British recognition of Jordanian annexation as opposed to occupation, this was limited to de facto recognition, not extended to de jure recognition. The same was done with lands occupied by Israel and not designated as part of the Jewish state by the UN Partition Plan. If you want the original document, here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UKrecognizesIsraelJordan.pdf<br />
:: I suggest you read the document more carefully. UK gave ''de jure'' recognition except in the case of Jerusalem, for which it gave ''de facto'' recognition (both for Jordan and Israel). [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 07:38, 5 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
During my university studies on this issue, I have also run into references about Pakistani recognition of Jordanian annexation. I have however so far failed to find an official government document extending such recognition in either English or Arabic. Perhaps there is an internal Urdu document, but I do not know Urdu. Perhaps someone familiar with Pakistani government archival databases may add to this discussion.<br />
<br />
:: I added a citation on this. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 07:38, 5 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As for the comment concerning concerning the Fourth Geneva Convention, it may be of value to add that the issue at hand is contained in an additional protocol, to which Israel, among several other countries, including the US, is not signatory. The standing of this additional protocol is unclear at best. In addition, international law does not differentiate between Israeli military occupation and Jordanian military occupation. Suggesting a line of reasoning where any and all Israeli migration to the West Bank and construction would be categorically illegal, would at once make several groups of Palestinians into illegal settlers according to this convention. This would include 1) Palestinians who took up residence in the West Bank after the armistice talks of January 1949 who were not resident there prior to the fighting, 2) Any foreign national who took up residence since 1949 (Mostly Jordanian citizens, but also Egyptian and assorted others. 3) Arab Israelis who moved to the West Bank since 1967. The convention is also unclear as to differentiation between areas from which Jewish refugees were removed in 1948 by force at the hands of the Jordanian Legion (Kfar Etzion and the Jewish Quarter in East Jerusalem for example) and those with no Jewish population prior to 1948. These matters are definitely contentious, but that is exactly why readers of Wikipedia ought to be able to see all sides of it, reaching an informed decision. Any rational observer would see then, I think, that neither the Israeli, nor the Palestinian position is wholly and categorically defensible. [[Special:Contributions/132.229.189.116|132.229.189.116]] ([[User talk:132.229.189.116|talk]]) 15:31, 26 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: You are mistaken. The relevant text is Article 49 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, which was fully ratified by Israel on 25/07/1951 to take effect 06/01/1952. [http://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%2096/v96.pdf] [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 07:38, 5 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:You sound like someone who would be a useful contgributor.--[[User:Peter cohen|Peter cohen]] ([[User talk:Peter cohen|talk]]) 21:16, 26 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes I quite agree that the opening is heavily biased, but the rest of the article approaches neutrality. Also, the article does not appear to make any mention that some of the settlements are reconstructions of previous Jewish residences that were expelled by Jordan between 1948 and 1967. This would include [[Gush Etzion]] and [[Kiryat Arba]] near [[Hebron]]. How can it be illegal to rebuild what was there prior to 1948? [[User:Metallurgist|Metallurgist]] ([[User talk:Metallurgist|talk]]) 04:02, 5 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:And wouldn't an occupation require a country or part of a country to be occupied? As the Jordanian claim to the WB was never recognised by the UN nor the international community, AND the WB never was a country, what are Israel occupying? Jordan? They have waived their claim. A part of Britain? They recognised Jordan's claim, which was later waived. The Ottoman empire? Long gone. I think the first paragraph must be rewritten, but not by me. I'm biased. [[User:Letriste1977|Letriste1977]] ([[User talk:Letriste1977|talk]]) 21:52, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::No, see the ICJ opinion in the Wall case. Some relevant quotes:<blockquote>(p. 35) The territories situated between the Green Line (see paragraph 72 above) and the former eastern boundary of Palestine under the Mandate were occupied by Israel in 1967 during the armed conflict between Israel and Jordan. Under customary international law, these were therefore occupied territories in which Israel had the status of occupying Power. Subsequent events in these territories, as described in paragraphs 75 to 77 above, have done nothing to alter this situation. All these territories (including East Jerusalem) remain occupied territories and Israel has continued to have the status of occupying Power.</blockquote>They go on to reject the specific argument that because Jordan's sovereignty over the West Bank was not recognized that Israel is not the occupying power in pages 39-45. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 22:23, 10 March 2010 (UTC)</font></small><br />
<br />
== Second paragraph of History section ==<br />
<br />
This is getting more and more garbled and uses a reference which goes to a dead link:<br />
{{quote|Contrary to popular belief the West bank was not officialy annexed by Jordan.,<ref>[http://www.tau.ac.il/jcss/memoranda/memo55.pdf Beyond the Veil, Israel-Pakistan Relations] P. R. Kumuraswami.</ref> assumed to have recognized it also).}}<br />
So did Jordan annexe it or not and who recgnised it if they did?--[[User:Peter cohen|Peter cohen]] ([[User talk:Peter cohen|talk]]) 15:09, 1 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:The IPs edit is incorrect, Jordan did annex the territory but it was only recognized by the UK and by Pakistan. See [http://books.google.com/books?id=nyl9BoCABEsC&pg=PA78#v=onepage&q=&f=false]. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 16:39, 1 March 2010 (UTC)</font></small><br />
::Thanks for fixing this, Nableezy.--[[User:Peter cohen|Peter cohen]] ([[User talk:Peter cohen|talk]]) 11:42, 2 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: Actually it seems to be a myth that Pakistan recognised it. Adding cite... [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 06:03, 5 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
== Infobox ==<br />
<br />
We should add an infobox with details on the area, population etc. of the West Bank.[[User:Bless sins|Bless sins]] ([[User talk:Bless sins|talk]]) 13:40, 6 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== request for change ==<br />
<br />
how come the pic at the top of the article says palestinian authority governance and dosen't show the israeli settlements, and how come it makes it seem as if the palestinians control jerusalem. it also makes it seem that he palestinians control all of the west bak when truthfully they only control some areas. i think that this pic is misleading and bias and should be replaced.--[[User:Marbehtorah-marbehchaim|Marbehtorah-marbehchaim]] ([[User talk:Marbehtorah-marbehchaim|talk]]) 06:14, 30 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I'll try to get a better image. I remember seeing a CIA produced, 2008 interpreted map from SPOT 5 data over the whole West Bank a few weeks ago. Their data is very high quality and public domain. I'll put it in commons once I've found it and converted it from the jp2 format they use. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 06:25, 30 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Got it but jp2 -> jpg takes it over the commons 100mb limit at 122mb. Converting at 90% quality takes it to ~46mb and it looks fine to me so I'll upload it. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 06:38, 30 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
[[File:West Bank July 2008 CIA remote-sensing map.jpg|200px|thumb|The map is now available in commons.<br>Suggested caption, something like...<br>"[[CIA]], [[SPOT_(satellites)#SPOT_5|SPOT 5]] remote sensing imagery acquired July 2004, created/published July 2008. Map shows areas interpreted by the CIA as Israeli settlements, Israeli claimed settlement municipal areas, Israeli-military installation areas, Palestinian-populated areas and UNRWA refugee camps together with the West Bank barrier and the various 'Areas of control'<ref name="g7512w ct002357">{{cite web|url=http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.gmd/g7512w.ct002357|title=g7512w ct002357|date=2008-07|publisher=CIA|accessdate=30 April 2010}}</ref>"]]<br />
Image could be used in addition to the existing one or the one in Template:West_Bank could be replaced with this one.<br />
Note that I included a ref in the suggested caption.<br />
<small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 07:53, 30 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
i think this is a much better pic.--[[User:Marbehtorah-marbehchaim|Marbehtorah-marbehchaim]] ([[User talk:Marbehtorah-marbehchaim|talk]]) 19:41, 30 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hebrew name ==<br />
<br />
The Hebrew name in the introduction section was recently changed by {{User0|Lionessofgd}} from "הגדה המערבית" to "יהודה ושומרון" (''The West Bank'' and ''Judea and Samaria'', respectively). Both names refer to the same area, but have different political values. I asked an Israeli, and according to him (supported by the article [[Judea and Samaria]]) the latter is the commonly used term in Israel, especially among right-wing people, whereas Hebrew speaking Palestinians and left-wing people use the former.<br />
<br />
Which name is more appropriate to use in the introduction section? The name used by Hebrew speaking people (i.e. Israelis) isn't necessarily the proper Hebrew term. Given the controversial status of the area, I thought it might be a good idea to discuss this. ~ [[User:HannesP|HannesP]] ([[User talk:HannesP|talk]]) 22:07, 4 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
: Some way of including both seems appropriate. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 04:33, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:They don't refer to the same area. The West Bank includes East Jerusalem. J&S doesn't.--[[User:Peter cohen|Peter cohen]] ([[User talk:Peter cohen|talk]]) 13:09, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I've changed it back for now. There is a question whether we need a Hebrew expression at all. The terminology clearer comes from the Arabic expression adopted by Transjordan. If the Israelis avoided referring to the whole West Bank as such, then why include a term they don't use?--[[User:Peter cohen|Peter cohen]] ([[User talk:Peter cohen|talk]]) 13:17, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Legality Confusion==<br />
<br />
Excuse my ignorance, but this paragraph makes no sense:<br />
<br />
The current status arises from the facts (see above reference) that Great Britain surrendered its mandate in 1948. Since the area has never in modern times been an independent state, there is no "legitimate" claimant to the area other than the present occupier, which currently happens to be Israel.<br />
<br />
So is this paragraph supposed to suggest that only an existence of a modern state would allow the Palestinians a claim? This seems to contradict the claims that many Israelis have towards Israel as a land that belonged to them since ancient times. Also, is this supposed to suggest that the state of Palestine was neither modern nor a state dominated by Palestinians? Also why is legitimate in quotations? This entire paragraph seems to imply that after the British left, they left behind a vacuum, which would have allowed any nation to state a claim on it regardless of its past history.<br />
<br />
[[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 16:34, 6 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Takeru_Kobayashi&diff=371840523Takeru Kobayashi2010-07-05T12:32:34Z<p>Hmm...: /* Independence Day 2010 arrest */ Brackets necessary as original quote states "He tried to jump on stage..."</p>
<hr />
<div>{{About|the Japanese competitive eater|other uses|Kobayashi}}<br />
<br />
{{Infobox person<br />
| name = Takeru Kobayashi<br />
| aka = Robbie<br />
| image = TakeruKobayashi.jpg<br />
| other_names = "The Tsunami"<br />
| birth_date = {{birth date and age|1978|03|15}}<br />
| birth_place = [[Nagano, Japan]] <br />
| height = {{height|ft=5|in=8}}<br />
| weight = {{convert|128|lb|kg|abbr=on}}-{{convert|192|lb|kg|abbr=on}}<br />
| website = [http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru-Kobayashi.com]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{nihongo|'''Takeru Kobayashi'''|小林尊|Kobayashi Takeru}} (born March 15, 1978) is a [[Japanese people|Japanese]] [[competitive eating|competitive eater]] and a member of the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]] (IFOCE). He held the [[world record]] for [[hot dog]] eating for nearly six years, and holds several other eating records, and is ranked third in the world for competitive eating according to the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]].<br />
==Competition and records==<br />
Born in [[Nagano, Nagano|Nagano]], [[Japan]], Kobayashi set his first record at his rookie appearance on July 4, 2001, when he ate 50 hot dogs in 12 minutes at the [[Nathan's]] [[Coney Island]] [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest|hot dog-eating contest]], doubling the previous record of 25. The record was so unexpected that when Kobayashi got to the later numbers, the organizers ran out of signs indicating how many dogs Kobayashi had eaten and had to resort to handwritten signs. Kobayashi would go on to break his own record three times in winning the contest six consecutive times (2001-2006).<br />
<br />
In 2004 and 2007, there was controversy over Kobayashi's performance when fellow competitors accused him of [[regurgitation (digestion)|regurgitating]] during the competition. Although regurgitation was not explicitly prohibited at the time, once food entered the mouth of a contestant it was not permitted to exit. However, judges did not find him guilty of any infractions and he was not penalized in either incident.<br />
<br />
On June 2, 2007, [[Joey Chestnut]] broke Kobayashi's record with 59.5 hot dogs and buns in a qualifying round for the annual Nathan's contest.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/04/hotdog.contest | title=Champ a top dog again with 49 weiners | work=CNN | author=Allan Chernoff; Adam Reiss; Shannon Troetel | date=4 July 2005 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | title=California man tops Kobayashi's hot dog record | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19004354/ | author=The Associated Press | work=MSNBC | date=2 June 2007|accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
In the 2006 Krystal Square Off, Kobayashi's mark of 97 [[hamburger]]s was 30 better than his winning total in 2005 and 28 better than the World Record he set in 2004. <br />
<br />
At a speed-eating contest in [[Hong Kong]] on August 13, 2005, Kobayashi consumed 83 vegetarian [[jiaozi]] dumplings in 8 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | title=Japan speed-eater in dumpling win | work=BBC News | date=14 August 2005 | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4149974.stm | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> The next day, he ate 100 [[baozi|roasted pork buns]] in 12 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | author=Monday Ng | title=Japan speed eater wolfs down 100 pork buns in 12 minutes | work=[[The Standard]] | date=15 August 2005 | url=http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Metro/GH15Ak02.html | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> Kobayashi also won the 2005 Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating, a three-hour [[IFOCE]] elimination tournament on [[ESPN]],<ref>{{cite news | title=Kobayashi Takes Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating | publisher=International Federation of Competitive Eating | date=31 July 2005 | url=http://www.ifoce.com/news.php?action=detail&sn=275 | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> as well as the [[Glutton Bowl]], a two-hour IFOCE eating special that aired on the [[Fox Network]] in 2002.<ref>{{cite web | author=Tama Miyake | title=Feature: Fast food | work=Metropolis Japan | url=http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/431/feature.asp | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | author=Amy Moon | title=Asian Pop: Superchomp Korean-born Sonya Thomas is the No. 1 ranked competitive eater in the USA. | work=[[San Francisco Chronicle]] | date=26 May 2005 | url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2005/05/26/eat.DTL | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> However, on Fox's 2003 show ''Man vs. Beast'', Kobayashi lost in an eating competition against a 1089-pound [[Kodiak bear]], when he ate 31 bunless hot dogs in 2 minutes and 36 seconds to the bear's 50.<ref>{{cite news | author=Larry Getlen| title=The Miracle That Is Kobayashi | url=http://www.blacktable.com/getlen050519.htm | work=The Black Table | date=19 May 2005| accessdate=23 February 2008}}</ref><br />
<br />
On August 5, 2006, Kobayashi set yet another world record at the [[Johnsonville Foods|Johnsonville]] World Bratwurst Eating Championship in [[Sheboygan, Wisconsin]], by downing 58 [[bratwurst]] sausages in 10 minutes, shattering the previous record of 35 set the previous year by [[Sonya Thomas]].<ref>{{cite news | author=The Associated Press | title=Kobayashi eats record 58 brats in Sheboygan | work=USA Today | date=5 August 2006 | url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2006-08-05-brat-record_x.htm | accessdate=1 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
On September 23, 2006, Takeru Kobayashi set the world record at the Phantom Food Festival in [[Boston, Massachusetts]], for eating 41 Summer Shack [[lobster]] rolls in 10 minutes, replacing the previous record of 22 rolls.<br />
<br />
Other world-eating records held by Kobayashi include 17.7 pounds of cow brains in 15 minutes and 20 pounds (9&nbsp;kg) of rice balls in 30 minutes.<br />
<br />
On June 25, 2007, Kobayashi announced on his blog that he seriously injured his jaw during training. He stated that he could only open his jaw about the width of a fingertip. Kobayashi's participation in the July 4, 2007, Nathan's contest continued as scheduled. He was able to eat a personal record 63 hot dogs, though his mark was bettered by Chestnut's 66.<ref>Agence France-Presse. "[http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21963756-5012895,00.html Jaw arthritis for hot-dog champ]." ''The Daily Telegraph''. June 25, 2007. Retrieved June 25, 2007.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2008, Kobayashi once again competed in the Nathan's contest. He and Chestnut reached a tie of 59 hot dogs and buns each, but he came in second to Chestnut in a 5-dog tiebreaker eatoff.<ref>[http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080706/FEAT0108/807060331 journalgazette.net, 3RF contest could be a wiener]</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi went on to defeat Chestnut, May 31, 2009, in a [[Pizza Hut]] [[P'zone|P'Zone]] competition at [[Sony Studios]] in [[Culver City]], [[California]]. The competition aired on [[Spike TV]] on June 21.<ref>Associated Press. "[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pizza_eating_contest]." ''The Associated Press'' . May 31, 2009. Retrieved June 2, 2009.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2009, he competed again in the Nathan's contest. While he reached 64.5 hot dogs and buns, Chestnut beat him by 3.5 with 68 hot dogs and buns.<ref>[http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272626801.shtml nationnaledger.com, Joey Chestnut Beats Takeru Kobayashi]</ref><br />
<br />
Also on July 2009, Kobayashi visited [[Puerto Rico]] in a special appearance for [[Taco Bell]]'s Why Pay More Challenge, eating 64 tacos in 15 minutes for a local charity.<br />
<ref> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJMm3ex9zg, http://www.blog.insula.tv/2009_07_01_archive.html] </ref><br />
<br />
On June 28, 2010, Kobayashi announced he would not compete in the Nathan's Fourth of July Hot Dog Eating Competition reportedly due to a labor impasse with [[Major League Eating]] over the ability to compete in contests not sanctioned by MLE. police.<ref>http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/</ref><ref>[http://calorielab.com/news/2010/07/03/feds-grant-takeru-kobayashi-special-visa-for-extraordinary-ability/ Feds Grant Takeru Kobayashi Special Visa for “Extraordinary Ability”]</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4th 2010, Kobayashi, was in attendance at the hot dog eating contest, watching from the crowd. Wearing a black T-shirt that said ``Free Kobi, Kobayashi mingled with the crowd, standing inside a police-barricaded pen just under the stage. After the competition ended, he slipped up the stage stairs, crashed the stage and wrestled with police before being taken into custody. “Let him eat! Let him eat!” the crowd chanted as police handcuffed him. Kobayashi's interpreter and publicist, Maggie James said <br />
he had hoped the Coney Island crowd would recognize him and he could offer them an eating demonstration ``for free". She said ``He's fighting for his freedom - - on Independence Day! <br />
Kobayashi spent the rest of the 4th of July in jail awaiting an appearance in Brooklyn Criminal Court on charges of resisting arrest, trespassing and obstructing governmental administration<br />
<br />
==Training and techniques==<br />
Kobayashi expands his stomach for a competition by eating larger and larger amounts of food, and then exercises to ensure that fat will not impede expansion of his stomach during a competition.<ref>Talmadge, Eric. "[http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040625f2.htm Pigout champion Kobayashi limbers up for hot dog gold]." ''[[Japan Times]].'' June 25, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> <br />
<br />
Kobayashi's official web site gives his height as 173&nbsp;cm (5&nbsp;ft 8 in) and his weight as 75&nbsp;kg (165&nbsp;lb). However he's weighed as much as 87&nbsp;kg (191.8&nbsp;lb) according to a June 29, 2006 blog entry, and as little as 58&nbsp;kg (128&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition in 2008.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/07/03/2008-07-03_contenders_get_ready_for_nathans_hot_dog.html|title=Contenders get ready for Nathan's hot dog eating contest|date=3 July 2008|publisher=Associated Press|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref> As of July 4, 2009, Kobayashi weighed in at 60&nbsp;kg (132&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition on Coney Island.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2009/07/03/2009-07-03_man_bites_dog__with_one_winner.html|title=Arch rivals square off at Nathan's hot dog-eating weigh-in|date=3 July 2009|publisher=New York Daily News|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi is also known for his trademark body wiggle, referred to by some as the "Kobayashi Shake", to force food down his [[esophagus]] and settle more compactly in his stomach.<ref>Farley, David. "[http://www.timeout.com/newyork/DetailsAr.do?file=/eatout/433/433.eat.feat.html Curious Gorge]." ''[[Time Out (company)|Time Out]].'' January 15, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> He eats the hot dogs by splitting the [[frankfurter]] in half, swallowing both parts at once, and then dipping the buns in water, [[Sprite (soft drink)|Sprite]], or [[7-Up]] and stuffing it in his mouth. He calls this the Solomon method.<ref>Poon, William. "[http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC051262/William/hotdogeatingcontest.htm Nathan’s Famous Hotdog Eating Contest]." ''ThinkQuest.'' Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref><br />
<br />
==Records==<br />
===Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest===<br />
From 2001 to 2006, Kobayashi won [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest#Results|Nathan's Annual Hot Dog Eating Contest]] an unprecedented six times in a row. He held the record for hot dogs eaten in the competition from his first appearance until 2007, when current record holder [[Joey Chestnut]] claimed the first of four consecutive victories.<br />
<br />
====Annual results====<br />
[[File:Takeru Kobayashi Hot Dog Champ by David Shankbone.JPG|right|320px|thumb|Kobayashi's win record on Nathans Wall of Fame, 2007]]<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"<br />
|-<br />
! Year !! Place !! HDB's<br />(hot dogs & buns)<br />
|-<br />
|2001 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50*<br />
|-<br />
|2002 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2003 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 44.5<br />
|-<br />
|2004 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2005 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 49<br />
|-<br />
|2006 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.75*<br />
|-<br />
|2007 || 2nd || style="background:silver;" | 63<br />
|-<br />
|2008<sup>1</sup> || 2nd || style="background:silver;" | 59<br />
|-<br />
|2009 || 2nd || style="background:silver;" | 64.5<br />
|-<br />
|2010 || colspan="2" | DNC<br />(contract dispute) <br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<nowiki>*</nowiki> set new world record<br /><br />
Yellow = World record holder<br /><br />
<sup>1</sup> Contest time reduced from 12 to 10 minutes.<br />
<br />
===Glutton Bowl===<br />
Kobayashi ate 31 hot-dogs in the hot dog eating round, putting him into the finals. For the final round of the [[Glutton Bowl]], the contestants had to eat a bowl of brains. Kobayashi won with a finished plate, of 55 brains.<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Hot Dog Champion (31 Hot Dogs)<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Main Event Champion (55 Brains)<br />
<br />
===Krystal Square Off===<br />
<br />
Kobayashi was also the reigning champion of the [[Krystal Square Off]] World Hamburger Eating Championship until 2007, when he could not compete due to a recent [[wisdom tooth]] extraction. The 2007 winner was [[Joey Chestnut]], who ate 103 hamburgers. <br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"<br />
|-<br />
! Year !! Place !! HDB's<br />(Hamburger)<br />
|-<br />
|2004 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 69<br />
|-<br />
|2005 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 67<br />
|-<br />
|2006 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 97<br />
|-<br />
|2008 || 3rd || style="background:Brown;" | 84<br />
|-<br />
|2009 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 93<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==Independence Day 2010 arrest==<br />
Kobayashi was arrested on July 4th, 2010, during the Nathan's International Hot Dog Eating Contest when he exited the police-barricaded spectator pen and entered the stage after the eating had ended. Although he was initially welcomed by co-host George Shea, security officers quickly ushered him offstage as he resisted vehemently, hanging on to the barricades and fences before being taken into custody. Though some witnesses report that Kobayashi was attempting to congratulate [[Joey Chestnut]]'s win,<ref>{{cite news|url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/415463-chestnut-wins-for-4th-straight-year-kobayashi-arrested|title=Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest 2010: Joey Chestnut Wins for Fourth Year|date=4 July 2010|publisher= Bleacher Report|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> co-host and [[Major League Eating]] President Richard Shea, however stated that "[Kobayashi] tried to jump on stage during the awards ceremony to disrupt it."<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/07/04/2010-07-04_joey_jaws_chestnut_wins_nathans_july_fourth_hot_dog_eating_contest.html|title=Joey 'Jaws' Chestnut wins Nathan's July Fourth Hot Dog Eating Contest|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NYDailyNews|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> He was charged with resisting arrest, trespassing and obstructing governmental administration.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/|title=Kobayashi arrested after Chestnut’s hot dog win|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NBC Sports|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> Kobayashi was not participating due to a contract dispute as he refused to sign a contract with Major League Eating that would have barred him from participating in events not sanctioned by the League.<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru Kobayashi official website]<br />
*[http://www.ifoce.com/eaters.php?action=detail&sn=22 Takeru Kobayashi] at the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]]<br />
*[http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/sioncampus/07/05/nathans.hotdog/index.html Sports Illustrated feature on 2006 contest]<br />
<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Kobayashi, Takeru}}<br />
[[Category:1978 births]]<br />
[[Category:Japanese competitive eaters]]<br />
[[Category:Living people]]<br />
[[Category:People from Nagano Prefecture]]<br />
[[Category:World record holders]]<br />
<br />
[[ca:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[es:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[eo:Kobayashi Takeru]]<br />
[[fr:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[ko:고바야시 다케루]]<br />
[[ja:小林尊]]<br />
[[pl:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[sv:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[zh:小林尊]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Takeru_Kobayashi&diff=371780688Takeru Kobayashi2010-07-05T00:07:59Z<p>Hmm...: /* Independence Day 2010 arrest */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{About|the Japanese competitive eater|other uses|Kobayashi}}<br />
<br />
{{Infobox person<br />
| name = Takeru Kobayashi<br />
| aka = Robbie<br />
| image = TakeruKobayashi.jpg<br />
| other_names = "The Tsunami"<br />
| birth_date = {{birth date and age|1978|03|15}}<br />
| birth_place = [[Nagano, Japan]] <br />
| height = {{height|ft=5|in=8}}<br />
| weight = {{convert|128|lb|kg|abbr=on}}-{{convert|192|lb|kg|abbr=on}}<br />
| website = [http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru-Kobayashi.com]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{nihongo|'''Takeru Kobayashi'''|小林尊|Kobayashi Takeru}} (born March 15, 1978) is a [[Japanese people|Japanese]] [[competitive eating|competitive eater]] and a member of the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]] (IFOCE). He held the [[world record]] for [[hot dog]] eating for nearly six years, and holds several other eating records, and is ranked third in the world for competitive eating according to the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]].<br />
==Competition and records==<br />
Born in [[Nagano, Nagano|Nagano]], [[Japan]], Kobayashi set his first record at his rookie appearance on July 4, 2001, when he ate 50 hot dogs in 12 minutes at the [[Nathan's]] [[Coney Island]] [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest|hot dog-eating contest]], doubling the previous record of 25. The record was so unexpected that when Kobayashi got to the later numbers, the organizers ran out of signs indicating how many dogs Kobayashi had eaten and had to resort to handwritten signs. Kobayashi would go on to break his own record three times in winning the contest six consecutive times (2001-2006).<br />
<br />
In 2004 and 2007, there was controversy over Kobayashi's performance when fellow competitors accused him of [[regurgitation (digestion)|regurgitating]] during the competition. Although regurgitation was not explicitly prohibited at the time, once food entered the mouth of a contestant it was not permitted to exit. However, judges did not find him guilty of any infractions and he was not penalized in either incident.<br />
<br />
On June 2, 2007, [[Joey Chestnut]] broke Kobayashi's record with 59.5 hot dogs and buns in a qualifying round for the annual Nathan's contest.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/04/hotdog.contest | title=Champ a top dog again with 49 weiners | work=CNN | author=Allan Chernoff; Adam Reiss; Shannon Troetel | date=4 July 2005 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | title=California man tops Kobayashi's hot dog record | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19004354/ | author=The Associated Press | work=MSNBC | date=2 June 2007|accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
In the 2006 Krystal Square Off, Kobayashi's mark of 97 [[hamburger]]s was 30 better than his winning total in 2005 and 28 better than the World Record he set in 2004. <br />
<br />
At a speed-eating contest in [[Hong Kong]] on August 13, 2005, Kobayashi consumed 83 vegetarian [[jiaozi]] dumplings in 8 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | title=Japan speed-eater in dumpling win | work=BBC News | date=14 August 2005 | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4149974.stm | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> The next day, he ate 100 [[baozi|roasted pork buns]] in 12 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | author=Monday Ng | title=Japan speed eater wolfs down 100 pork buns in 12 minutes | work=[[The Standard]] | date=15 August 2005 | url=http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Metro/GH15Ak02.html | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> Kobayashi also won the 2005 Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating, a three-hour [[IFOCE]] elimination tournament on [[ESPN]],<ref>{{cite news | title=Kobayashi Takes Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating | publisher=International Federation of Competitive Eating | date=31 July 2005 | url=http://www.ifoce.com/news.php?action=detail&sn=275 | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> as well as the [[Glutton Bowl]], a two-hour IFOCE eating special that aired on the [[Fox Network]] in 2002.<ref>{{cite web | author=Tama Miyake | title=Feature: Fast food | work=Metropolis Japan | url=http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/431/feature.asp | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | author=Amy Moon | title=Asian Pop: Superchomp Korean-born Sonya Thomas is the No. 1 ranked competitive eater in the USA. | work=[[San Francisco Chronicle]] | date=26 May 2005 | url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2005/05/26/eat.DTL | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> However, on Fox's 2003 show ''Man vs. Beast'', Kobayashi lost in an eating competition against a 1089-pound [[Kodiak bear]], when he ate 31 bunless hot dogs in 2 minutes and 36 seconds to the bear's 50.<ref>{{cite news | author=Larry Getlen| title=The Miracle That Is Kobayashi | url=http://www.blacktable.com/getlen050519.htm | work=The Black Table | date=19 May 2005| accessdate=23 February 2008}}</ref><br />
<br />
On August 5, 2006, Kobayashi set yet another world record at the [[Johnsonville Foods|Johnsonville]] World Bratwurst Eating Championship in [[Sheboygan, Wisconsin]], by downing 58 [[bratwurst]] sausages in 10 minutes, shattering the previous record of 35 set the previous year by [[Sonya Thomas]].<ref>{{cite news | author=The Associated Press | title=Kobayashi eats record 58 brats in Sheboygan | work=USA Today | date=5 August 2006 | url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2006-08-05-brat-record_x.htm | accessdate=1 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
On September 23, 2006, Takeru Kobayashi set the world record at the Phantom Food Festival in [[Boston, Massachusetts]], for eating 41 Summer Shack [[lobster]] rolls in 10 minutes, replacing the previous record of 22 rolls.<br />
<br />
Other world-eating records held by Kobayashi include 17.7 pounds of cow brains in 15 minutes and 20 pounds (9&nbsp;kg) of rice balls in 30 minutes.<br />
<br />
On June 25, 2007, Kobayashi announced on his blog that he seriously injured his jaw during training. He stated that he could only open his jaw about the width of a fingertip. Kobayashi's participation in the July 4, 2007, Nathan's contest continued as scheduled. He was able to eat a personal record 63 hot dogs, though his mark was bettered by Chestnut's 66.<ref>Agence France-Presse. "[http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21963756-5012895,00.html Jaw arthritis for hot-dog champ]." ''The Daily Telegraph''. June 25, 2007. Retrieved June 25, 2007.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2008, Kobayashi once again competed in the Nathan's contest. He and Chestnut reached a tie of 59 hot dogs and buns each, but he came in second to Chestnut in a 5-dog tiebreaker eatoff.<ref>[http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080706/FEAT0108/807060331 journalgazette.net, 3RF contest could be a wiener]</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi went on to defeat Chestnut, May 31, 2009, in a [[Pizza Hut]] [[P'zone|P'Zone]] competition at [[Sony Studios]] in [[Culver City]], [[California]]. The competition aired on [[Spike TV]] on June 21.<ref>Associated Press. "[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pizza_eating_contest]." ''The Associated Press'' . May 31, 2009. Retrieved June 2, 2009.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2009, he competed again in the Nathan's contest. While he reached 64.5 hot dogs and buns, Chestnut beat him by 3.5 with 68 hot dogs and buns.<ref>[http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272626801.shtml nationnaledger.com, Joey Chestnut Beats Takeru Kobayashi]</ref><br />
<br />
Also on July 2009, Kobayashi visited [[Puerto Rico]] in a special appearance for [[Taco Bell]]'s Why Pay More Challenge, eating 64 tacos in 15 minutes for a local charity.<br />
<ref> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJMm3ex9zg, http://www.blog.insula.tv/2009_07_01_archive.html] </ref><br />
<br />
On June 28, 2010, Kobayashi announced he would not compete in the Nathan's Fourth of July Hot Dog Eating Competition reportedly due to a labor impasse with [[Major League Eating]] over the ability to compete in contests not sanctioned by MLE. Kobayashi, however, was in attendance at the contest, watching from the crowd. After the competition had ended, he attempted to go onto the stage in protest and was taken into custody by police.<ref>http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/</ref><ref>[http://calorielab.com/news/2010/07/03/feds-grant-takeru-kobayashi-special-visa-for-extraordinary-ability/ Feds Grant Takeru Kobayashi Special Visa for “Extraordinary Ability”]</ref><br />
<br />
==Training and techniques==<br />
Kobayashi expands his stomach for a competition by eating larger and larger amounts of food, and then exercises to ensure that fat will not impede expansion of his stomach during a competition.<ref>Talmadge, Eric. "[http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040625f2.htm Pigout champion Kobayashi limbers up for hot dog gold]." ''[[Japan Times]].'' June 25, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> <br />
<br />
Kobayashi's official web site gives his height as 173&nbsp;cm (5&nbsp;ft 8 in) and his weight as 75&nbsp;kg (165&nbsp;lb). However he's weighed as much as 87&nbsp;kg (191.8&nbsp;lb) according to a June 29, 2006 blog entry, and as little as 58&nbsp;kg (128&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition in 2008.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/07/03/2008-07-03_contenders_get_ready_for_nathans_hot_dog.html|title=Contenders get ready for Nathan's hot dog eating contest|date=3 July 2008|publisher=Associated Press|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref> As of July 4, 2009, Kobayashi weighed in at 60&nbsp;kg (132&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition on Coney Island.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2009/07/03/2009-07-03_man_bites_dog__with_one_winner.html|title=Arch rivals square off at Nathan's hot dog-eating weigh-in|date=3 July 2009|publisher=New York Daily News|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi is also known for his trademark body wiggle, referred to by some as the "Kobayashi Shake", to force food down his [[esophagus]] and settle more compactly in his stomach.<ref>Farley, David. "[http://www.timeout.com/newyork/DetailsAr.do?file=/eatout/433/433.eat.feat.html Curious Gorge]." ''[[Time Out (company)|Time Out]].'' January 15, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> He eats the hot dogs by splitting the [[frankfurter]] in half, swallowing both parts at once, and then dipping the buns in water, [[Sprite (soft drink)|Sprite]], or [[7-Up]] and stuffing it in his mouth. He calls this the Solomon method.<ref>Poon, William. "[http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC051262/William/hotdogeatingcontest.htm Nathan’s Famous Hotdog Eating Contest]." ''ThinkQuest.'' Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref><br />
<br />
==Records==<br />
===Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest===<br />
From 2001 to 2006, Kobayashi won [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest#Results|Nathan's Annual Hot Dog Eating Contest]] an unprecedented six times in a row. He held the record for hot dogs eaten in the competition from his first appearance until 2007, when current record holder [[Joey Chestnut]] claimed the first of four consecutive victories.<br />
<br />
====Annual results====<br />
[[File:Takeru Kobayashi Hot Dog Champ by David Shankbone.JPG|right|320px|thumb|Kobayashi's win record on Nathans Wall of Fame, 2007]]<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"<br />
|-<br />
! Year !! Place !! HDB's<br />(hot dogs & buns)<br />
|-<br />
|2001 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50*<br />
|-<br />
|2002 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2003 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 44.5<br />
|-<br />
|2004 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2005 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 49<br />
|-<br />
|2006 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.75*<br />
|-<br />
|2007 || 2nd || 63<br />
|-<br />
|2008<sup>1</sup> || 2nd || 59<br />
|-<br />
|2009 || 2nd || 64.5<br />
|-<br />
|2010 || colspan="2" | DNC<br />(contract dispute) <br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<nowiki>*</nowiki> set new world record<br /><br />
Yellow = World record holder<br /><br />
<sup>1</sup> Contest time reduced from 12 to 10 minutes.<br />
<br />
===Glutton Bowl===<br />
Kobayashi ate 31 hot-dogs in the hot dog eating round, putting him into the finals. For the final round of the [[Glutton Bowl]], the contestants had to eat a bowl of brains. Kobayashi won with a finished plate, of 55 brains.<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Hot Dog Champion (31 Hot Dogs)<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Main Event Champion (55 Brains)<br />
<br />
===Krystal Square Off===<br />
Kobayashi was also the reigning champion of the [[Krystal Square Off]] World Hamburger Eating Championship until 2007, when he could not compete due to a recent [[wisdom tooth]] extraction. The 2007 winner was [[Joey Chestnut]], who ate 103 hamburgers. <br />
* 2009: First Place (93 hamburgers)<br />
* 2008: Third place (84 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://krystalsquareoff.com/blog/video-joey-chestnut-wins-world-world-hamburger-eating-championship-810.html | title=Video: Joey Chestnut Wins World Hamburger Eating Championship | work=Krystal Square Off Blog | date=30 September 2008 | accessdate=21 July 2009}}</ref><br />
* 2006: First place (97 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.tfponline.com/absolutenm/templates/breaking.aspx?articleid=6573 | title=Kobayashi Remains Krystal King | work=Chattanooga Times Free Press | author=Mike O'Neal| date=28 October 2006 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2005: First place (67 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=41 | title=2005 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2004: First place (69 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=4 | title=2004 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Independence Day 2010 arrest==<br />
Kobayashi was arrested on July 4th, 2010, during the Nathan's International Hot Dog Eating Contest when he exited the police-barricaded spectator pen and entered the stage after the eating had ended. Although he was initially welcomed by co-host George Shea, security officers quickly ushered him offstage as he resisted vehemently, hanging on to the barricades and fences before being taken into custody. Though some witnesses report that Kobayashi was attempting to congratulate [[Joey Chestnut]]'s win,<ref>{{cite news|url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/415463-chestnut-wins-for-4th-straight-year-kobayashi-arrested|title=Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest 2010: Joey Chestnut Wins for Fourth Year|date=4 July 2010|publisher= Bleacher Report|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> co-host and [[Major League Eating]] President Richard Shea, however stated that "[Kobayashi] tried to jump on stage during the awards ceremony to disrupt it."<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/07/04/2010-07-04_joey_jaws_chestnut_wins_nathans_july_fourth_hot_dog_eating_contest.html|title=Joey 'Jaws' Chestnut wins Nathan's July Fourth Hot Dog Eating Contest|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NYDailyNews|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> He was charged with resisting arrest, trespassing and obstructing governmental administration.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/|title=Kobayashi arrested after Chestnut’s hot dog win|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NBC Sports|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> Kobayashi was not participating due to a contract dispute as he refused to sign a contract with Major League Eating that would have barred him from participating in events not sanctioned by the League.<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru Kobayashi official website]<br />
*[http://www.ifoce.com/eaters.php?action=detail&sn=22 Takeru Kobayashi] at the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]]<br />
*[http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/sioncampus/07/05/nathans.hotdog/index.html Sports Illustrated feature on 2006 contest]<br />
<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Kobayashi, Takeru}}<br />
[[Category:1978 births]]<br />
[[Category:Japanese competitive eaters]]<br />
[[Category:Living people]]<br />
[[Category:People from Nagano Prefecture]]<br />
[[Category:World record holders]]<br />
<br />
[[ca:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[es:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[eo:Kobayashi Takeru]]<br />
[[fr:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[ko:고바야시 다케루]]<br />
[[ja:小林尊]]<br />
[[pl:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[sv:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[zh:小林尊]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Takeru_Kobayashi&diff=371762618Takeru Kobayashi2010-07-04T21:44:06Z<p>Hmm...: /* Independence Day 2010 Arrest */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{About|the Japanese competitive eater|other uses|Kobayashi}}<br />
<br />
{{Infobox person<br />
| name = Takeru Kobayashi<br />
| aka = Robbie<br />
| image = TakeruKobayashi.jpg<br />
| other_names = "The Tsunami"<br />
| birth_date = {{birth date and age|1978|03|15}}<br />
| birth_place = [[Nagano, Japan]] <br />
| height = {{height|ft=5|in=8}}<br />
| weight = {{convert|128|lb|kg|abbr=on}}-{{convert|192|lb|kg|abbr=on}}<br />
| website = [http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru-Kobayashi.com]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{nihongo|'''Takeru Kobayashi'''|小林尊|Kobayashi Takeru}} (born March 15, 1978) is a [[Japanese people|Japanese]] [[competitive eating|competitive eater]] and a member of the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]] (IFOCE). He held the [[world record]] for [[hot dog]] eating for nearly six years, and holds several other eating records, and is ranked second in the world for competitive eating according to the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]].<br />
==Competition and records==<br />
Born in [[Nagano, Nagano|Nagano]], [[Japan]], Kobayashi set his first record at his rookie appearance on July 4, 2001, when he ate 50 hot dogs in 12 minutes at the [[Nathan's]] [[Coney Island]] [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest|hot dog-eating contest]], doubling the previous record of 25. The record was so unexpected that when Kobayashi got to the later numbers, the organizers ran out of signs indicating how many dogs Kobayashi had eaten and had to resort to handwritten signs. Kobayashi would go on to break his own record three times in winning the contest six consecutive times (2001-2006).<br />
<br />
In 2004 and 2007, there was controversy over Kobayashi's performance when fellow competitors accused him of [[regurgitation (digestion)|regurgitating]] during the competition. Although regurgitation was not explicitly prohibited at the time, once food entered the mouth of a contestant it was not permitted to exit. However, judges did not find him guilty of any infractions and he was not penalized in either incident.<br />
<br />
On June 2, 2007, [[Joey Chestnut]] broke Kobayashi's record with 59.5 hot dogs and buns in a qualifying round for the annual Nathan's contest.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/04/hotdog.contest | title=Champ a top dog again with 49 weiners | work=CNN | author=Allan Chernoff; Adam Reiss; Shannon Troetel | date=4 July 2005 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | title=California man tops Kobayashi's hot dog record | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19004354/ | author=The Associated Press | work=MSNBC | date=2 June 2007|accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
In the 2006 Krystal Square Off, Kobayashi's mark of 97 [[hamburger]]s was 30 better than his winning total in 2005 and 28 better than the World Record he set in 2004. <br />
<br />
At a speed-eating contest in [[Hong Kong]] on August 13, 2005, Kobayashi consumed 83 vegetarian [[jiaozi]] dumplings in 8 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | title=Japan speed-eater in dumpling win | work=BBC News | date=14 August 2005 | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4149974.stm | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> The next day, he ate 100 [[baozi|roasted pork buns]] in 12 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | author=Monday Ng | title=Japan speed eater wolfs down 100 pork buns in 12 minutes | work=[[The Standard]] | date=15 August 2005 | url=http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Metro/GH15Ak02.html | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> Kobayashi also won the 2005 Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating, a three-hour [[IFOCE]] elimination tournament on [[ESPN]],<ref>{{cite news | title=Kobayashi Takes Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating | publisher=International Federation of Competitive Eating | date=31 July 2005 | url=http://www.ifoce.com/news.php?action=detail&sn=275 | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> as well as the [[Glutton Bowl]], a two-hour IFOCE eating special that aired on the [[Fox Network]] in 2002.<ref>{{cite web | author=Tama Miyake | title=Feature: Fast food | work=Metropolis Japan | url=http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/431/feature.asp | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | author=Amy Moon | title=Asian Pop: Superchomp Korean-born Sonya Thomas is the No. 1 ranked competitive eater in the USA. | work=[[San Francisco Chronicle]] | date=26 May 2005 | url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2005/05/26/eat.DTL | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> However, on Fox's 2003 show ''Man vs. Beast'', Kobayashi lost in an eating competition against a 1089-pound [[Kodiak bear]], when he ate 31 bunless hot dogs in 2 minutes and 36 seconds to the bear's 50.<ref>{{cite news | author=Larry Getlen| title=The Miracle That Is Kobayashi | url=http://www.blacktable.com/getlen050519.htm | work=The Black Table | date=19 May 2005| accessdate=23 February 2008}}</ref><br />
<br />
On August 5, 2006, Kobayashi set yet another world record at the [[Johnsonville Foods|Johnsonville]] World Bratwurst Eating Championship in [[Sheboygan, Wisconsin]], by downing 58 [[bratwurst]] sausages in 10 minutes, shattering the previous record of 35 set the previous year by [[Sonya Thomas]].<ref>{{cite news | author=The Associated Press | title=Kobayashi eats record 58 brats in Sheboygan | work=USA Today | date=5 August 2006 | url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2006-08-05-brat-record_x.htm | accessdate=1 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
On September 23, 2006, Takeru Kobayashi set the world record at the Phantom Food Festival in [[Boston, Massachusetts]], for eating 41 Summer Shack [[lobster]] rolls in 10 minutes, replacing the previous record of 22 rolls.<br />
<br />
Other world-eating records held by Kobayashi include 17.7 pounds of cow brains in 15 minutes and 20 pounds (9&nbsp;kg) of rice balls in 30 minutes.<br />
<br />
On June 25, 2007, Kobayashi announced on his blog that he seriously injured his jaw during training. He stated that he could only open his jaw about the width of a fingertip. Kobayashi's participation in the July 4, 2007, Nathan's contest continued as scheduled. He was able to eat a personal record 63 hot dogs, though his mark was bettered by Chestnut's 66.<ref>Agence France-Presse. "[http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21963756-5012895,00.html Jaw arthritis for hot-dog champ]." ''The Daily Telegraph''. June 25, 2007. Retrieved June 25, 2007.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2008, Kobayashi once again competed in the Nathan's contest. He and Chestnut reached a tie of 59 hot dogs and buns each, but he came in second to Chestnut in a 5-dog tiebreaker eatoff.<ref>[http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080706/FEAT0108/807060331 journalgazette.net, 3RF contest could be a wiener]</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi went on to defeat Chestnut, May 31, 2009, in a [[Pizza Hut]] [[P'zone|P'Zone]] competition at [[Sony Studios]] in [[Culver City]], [[California]]. The competition aired on [[Spike TV]] on June 21.<ref>Associated Press. "[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pizza_eating_contest]." ''The Associated Press'' . May 31, 2009. Retrieved June 2, 2009.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2009, he competed again in the Nathan's contest. While he reached 64.5 hot dogs and buns, Chestnut beat him by 3.5 with 68 hot dogs and buns.<ref>[http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272626801.shtml nationnaledger.com, Joey Chestnut Beats Takeru Kobayashi]</ref><br />
<br />
Also on July 2009, Kobayashi visited [[Puerto Rico]] in a special appearance for [[Taco Bell]]'s Why Pay More Challenge, eating 64 tacos in 15 minutes for a local charity.<br />
<ref> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJMm3ex9zg, http://www.blog.insula.tv/2009_07_01_archive.html] </ref><br />
<br />
On June 28, 2010, Kobayashi announced he would not compete in the Nathan's Fourth of July Hot Dog Eating Competition reportedly due to a labor impasse with [[Major League Eating]] over the ability to compete in contests not sanctioned by MLE. Kobayashi, however, was in attendance at the contest, watching from the crowd. After the competition had ended, he attempted to go onto the stage in protest and was taken into custody by police.<ref>http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/</ref><ref>[http://calorielab.com/news/2010/07/03/feds-grant-takeru-kobayashi-special-visa-for-extraordinary-ability/ Feds Grant Takeru Kobayashi Special Visa for “Extraordinary Ability”]</ref><br />
<br />
==Training and techniques==<br />
Kobayashi expands his stomach for a competition by eating larger and larger amounts of food, and then exercises to ensure that fat will not impede expansion of his stomach during a competition.<ref>Talmadge, Eric. "[http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040625f2.htm Pigout champion Kobayashi limbers up for hot dog gold]." ''[[Japan Times]].'' June 25, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> <br />
<br />
Kobayashi's official web site gives his height as 173&nbsp;cm (5&nbsp;ft 8 in) and his weight as 75&nbsp;kg (165&nbsp;lb). However he's weighed as much as 87&nbsp;kg (191.8&nbsp;lb) according to a June 29, 2006 blog entry, and as little as 58&nbsp;kg (128&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition in 2008.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/07/03/2008-07-03_contenders_get_ready_for_nathans_hot_dog.html|title=Contenders get ready for Nathan's hot dog eating contest|date=3 July 2008|publisher=Associated Press|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref> As of July 4, 2009, Kobayashi weighed in at 60&nbsp;kg (132&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition on Coney Island.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2009/07/03/2009-07-03_man_bites_dog__with_one_winner.html|title=Arch rivals square off at Nathan's hot dog-eating weigh-in|date=3 July 2009|publisher=New York Daily News|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi is also known for his trademark body wiggle, referred to by some as the "Kobayashi Shake", to force food down his [[esophagus]] and settle more compactly in his stomach.<ref>Farley, David. "[http://www.timeout.com/newyork/DetailsAr.do?file=/eatout/433/433.eat.feat.html Curious Gorge]." ''[[Time Out (company)|Time Out]].'' January 15, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> He eats the hot dogs by splitting the [[frankfurter]] in half, swallowing both parts at once, and then dipping the buns in water, [[Sprite (soft drink)|Sprite]], or [[7-Up]] and stuffing it in his mouth. He calls this the Solomon method.<ref>Poon, William. "[http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC051262/William/hotdogeatingcontest.htm Nathan’s Famous Hotdog Eating Contest]." ''ThinkQuest.'' Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref><br />
<br />
==Records==<br />
===Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest===<br />
From 2001 to 2006, Kobayashi won [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest#Results|Nathan's Annual Hot Dog Eating Contest]] an unprecedented six times in a row. He held the record for hot dogs eaten in the competition from his first appearance until 2007, when current record holder [[Joey Chestnut]] claimed the first of four consecutive victories.<br />
<br />
====Annual results====<br />
[[File:Takeru Kobayashi Hot Dog Champ by David Shankbone.JPG|right|320px|thumb|Kobayashi's win record on Nathans Wall of Fame, 2007]]<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"<br />
|-<br />
! Year !! Place !! HDB's<br />(hot dogs & buns)<br />
|-<br />
|2001 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50*<br />
|-<br />
|2002 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2003 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 44.5<br />
|-<br />
|2004 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2005 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 49<br />
|-<br />
|2006 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.75*<br />
|-<br />
|2007 || 2nd || 63<br />
|-<br />
|2008<sup>1</sup> || 2nd || 59<br />
|-<br />
|2009 || 2nd || 64.5<br />
|-<br />
|2010 || colspan="2" | DNC<br />(contract dispute) <br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<nowiki>*</nowiki> set new world record<br /><br />
Yellow = World record holder<br /><br />
<sup>1</sup> Contest time reduced from 12 to 10 minutes.<br />
<br />
===Glutton Bowl===<br />
Kobayashi ate 31 hot-dogs in the hot dog eating round, putting him into the finals. For the final round of the [[Glutton Bowl]], the contestants had to eat a bowl of brains. Kobayashi won with a finished plate, of 55 brains.<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Hot Dog Champion (31 Hot Dogs)<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Main Event Champion (55 Brains)<br />
<br />
===Krystal Square Off===<br />
Kobayashi was also the reigning champion of the [[Krystal Square Off]] World Hamburger Eating Championship until 2007, when he could not compete due to a recent [[wisdom tooth]] extraction. The 2007 winner was [[Joey Chestnut]], who ate 103 hamburgers. <br />
* 2009: First Place (93 hamburgers)<br />
* 2008: Third place (84 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://krystalsquareoff.com/blog/video-joey-chestnut-wins-world-world-hamburger-eating-championship-810.html | title=Video: Joey Chestnut Wins World Hamburger Eating Championship | work=Krystal Square Off Blog | date=30 September 2008 | accessdate=21 July 2009}}</ref><br />
* 2006: First place (97 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.tfponline.com/absolutenm/templates/breaking.aspx?articleid=6573 | title=Kobayashi Remains Krystal King | work=Chattanooga Times Free Press | author=Mike O'Neal| date=28 October 2006 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2005: First place (67 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=41 | title=2005 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2004: First place (69 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=4 | title=2004 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Independence Day 2010 Arrest==<br />
<br />
Kobayashi was arrested on July 4th, 2010 during the Nathan's International Hot Dog Eating Contest when he exited the police-barricaded spectator pen and entered the stage after the eating had ended. Initially welcomed by co-host George Shea, security officers quickly ushered him offstage as he resisted vehemently, hanging on to the barricades and fences before being taken into custody. Though some witnesses report that Kobayashi was attempting to congratulate [[Joey Chestnut]]'s win,<ref>{{cite news|url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/415463-chestnut-wins-for-4th-straight-year-kobayashi-arrested|title=Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest 2010: Joey Chestnut Wins for Fourth Year|date=4 July 2010|publisher= Bleacher Report|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> co-host and [[Major League Eating]] President Richard Shea, however stated that "[Kobayashi] tried to jump on stage during the awards ceremony to disrupt it."<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/07/04/2010-07-04_joey_jaws_chestnut_wins_nathans_july_fourth_hot_dog_eating_contest.html|title=Joey 'Jaws' Chestnut wins Nathan's July Fourth Hot Dog Eating Contest|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NYDailyNews|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> He was charged with resisting arrest, trespass and obstructing governmental administration.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/|title=Kobayashi arrested after Chestnut’s hot dog win|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NBC Sports|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> Kobayashi was not participating due to a contract dispute as he refused to sign a contract with Major League Eating that would have barred him from participating in events not sanctioned by the League.<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru Kobayashi official website]<br />
*[http://www.ifoce.com/eaters.php?action=detail&sn=22 Takeru Kobayashi] at the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]]<br />
*[http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/sioncampus/07/05/nathans.hotdog/index.html Sports Illustrated feature on 2006 contest]<br />
<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Kobayashi, Takeru}}<br />
[[Category:1978 births]]<br />
[[Category:Japanese competitive eaters]]<br />
[[Category:Living people]]<br />
[[Category:People from Nagano Prefecture]]<br />
[[Category:World record holders]]<br />
<br />
[[ca:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[es:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[eo:Kobayashi Takeru]]<br />
[[fr:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[ko:고바야시 다케루]]<br />
[[ja:小林尊]]<br />
[[pl:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[sv:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[zh:小林尊]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Takeru_Kobayashi&diff=371761478Takeru Kobayashi2010-07-04T21:35:58Z<p>Hmm...: /* Independence Day 2010 Arrest */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{About|the Japanese competitive eater|other uses|Kobayashi}}<br />
<br />
{{Infobox person<br />
| name = Takeru Kobayashi<br />
| aka = Robbie<br />
| image = TakeruKobayashi.jpg<br />
| other_names = "The Tsunami"<br />
| birth_date = {{birth date and age|1978|03|15}}<br />
| birth_place = [[Nagano, Japan]] <br />
| height = {{height|ft=5|in=8}}<br />
| weight = {{convert|128|lb|kg|abbr=on}}-{{convert|192|lb|kg|abbr=on}}<br />
| website = [http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru-Kobayashi.com]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{nihongo|'''Takeru Kobayashi'''|小林尊|Kobayashi Takeru}} (born March 15, 1978) is a [[Japanese people|Japanese]] [[competitive eating|competitive eater]] and a member of the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]] (IFOCE). He held the [[world record]] for [[hot dog]] eating for nearly six years, and holds several other eating records, and is ranked second in the world for competitive eating according to the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]].<br />
==Competition and records==<br />
Born in [[Nagano, Nagano|Nagano]], [[Japan]], Kobayashi set his first record at his rookie appearance on July 4, 2001, when he ate 50 hot dogs in 12 minutes at the [[Nathan's]] [[Coney Island]] [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest|hot dog-eating contest]], doubling the previous record of 25. The record was so unexpected that when Kobayashi got to the later numbers, the organizers ran out of signs indicating how many dogs Kobayashi had eaten and had to resort to handwritten signs. Kobayashi would go on to break his own record three times in winning the contest six consecutive times (2001-2006).<br />
<br />
In 2004 and 2007, there was controversy over Kobayashi's performance when fellow competitors accused him of [[regurgitation (digestion)|regurgitating]] during the competition. Although regurgitation was not explicitly prohibited at the time, once food entered the mouth of a contestant it was not permitted to exit. However, judges did not find him guilty of any infractions and he was not penalized in either incident.<br />
<br />
On June 2, 2007, [[Joey Chestnut]] broke Kobayashi's record with 59.5 hot dogs and buns in a qualifying round for the annual Nathan's contest.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/04/hotdog.contest | title=Champ a top dog again with 49 weiners | work=CNN | author=Allan Chernoff; Adam Reiss; Shannon Troetel | date=4 July 2005 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | title=California man tops Kobayashi's hot dog record | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19004354/ | author=The Associated Press | work=MSNBC | date=2 June 2007|accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
In the 2006 Krystal Square Off, Kobayashi's mark of 97 [[hamburger]]s was 30 better than his winning total in 2005 and 28 better than the World Record he set in 2004. <br />
<br />
At a speed-eating contest in [[Hong Kong]] on August 13, 2005, Kobayashi consumed 83 vegetarian [[jiaozi]] dumplings in 8 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | title=Japan speed-eater in dumpling win | work=BBC News | date=14 August 2005 | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4149974.stm | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> The next day, he ate 100 [[baozi|roasted pork buns]] in 12 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | author=Monday Ng | title=Japan speed eater wolfs down 100 pork buns in 12 minutes | work=[[The Standard]] | date=15 August 2005 | url=http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Metro/GH15Ak02.html | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> Kobayashi also won the 2005 Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating, a three-hour [[IFOCE]] elimination tournament on [[ESPN]],<ref>{{cite news | title=Kobayashi Takes Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating | publisher=International Federation of Competitive Eating | date=31 July 2005 | url=http://www.ifoce.com/news.php?action=detail&sn=275 | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> as well as the [[Glutton Bowl]], a two-hour IFOCE eating special that aired on the [[Fox Network]] in 2002.<ref>{{cite web | author=Tama Miyake | title=Feature: Fast food | work=Metropolis Japan | url=http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/431/feature.asp | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | author=Amy Moon | title=Asian Pop: Superchomp Korean-born Sonya Thomas is the No. 1 ranked competitive eater in the USA. | work=[[San Francisco Chronicle]] | date=26 May 2005 | url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2005/05/26/eat.DTL | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> However, on Fox's 2003 show ''Man vs. Beast'', Kobayashi lost in an eating competition against a 1089-pound [[Kodiak bear]], when he ate 31 bunless hot dogs in 2 minutes and 36 seconds to the bear's 50.<ref>{{cite news | author=Larry Getlen| title=The Miracle That Is Kobayashi | url=http://www.blacktable.com/getlen050519.htm | work=The Black Table | date=19 May 2005| accessdate=23 February 2008}}</ref><br />
<br />
On August 5, 2006, Kobayashi set yet another world record at the [[Johnsonville Foods|Johnsonville]] World Bratwurst Eating Championship in [[Sheboygan, Wisconsin]], by downing 58 [[bratwurst]] sausages in 10 minutes, shattering the previous record of 35 set the previous year by [[Sonya Thomas]].<ref>{{cite news | author=The Associated Press | title=Kobayashi eats record 58 brats in Sheboygan | work=USA Today | date=5 August 2006 | url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2006-08-05-brat-record_x.htm | accessdate=1 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
On September 23, 2006, Takeru Kobayashi set the world record at the Phantom Food Festival in [[Boston, Massachusetts]], for eating 41 Summer Shack [[lobster]] rolls in 10 minutes, replacing the previous record of 22 rolls.<br />
<br />
Other world-eating records held by Kobayashi include 17.7 pounds of cow brains in 15 minutes and 20 pounds (9&nbsp;kg) of rice balls in 30 minutes.<br />
<br />
On June 25, 2007, Kobayashi announced on his blog that he seriously injured his jaw during training. He stated that he could only open his jaw about the width of a fingertip. Kobayashi's participation in the July 4, 2007, Nathan's contest continued as scheduled. He was able to eat a personal record 63 hot dogs, though his mark was bettered by Chestnut's 66.<ref>Agence France-Presse. "[http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21963756-5012895,00.html Jaw arthritis for hot-dog champ]." ''The Daily Telegraph''. June 25, 2007. Retrieved June 25, 2007.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2008, Kobayashi once again competed in the Nathan's contest. He and Chestnut reached a tie of 59 hot dogs and buns each, but he came in second to Chestnut in a 5-dog tiebreaker eatoff.<ref>[http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080706/FEAT0108/807060331 journalgazette.net, 3RF contest could be a wiener]</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi went on to defeat Chestnut, May 31, 2009, in a [[Pizza Hut]] [[P'zone|P'Zone]] competition at [[Sony Studios]] in [[Culver City]], [[California]]. The competition aired on [[Spike TV]] on June 21.<ref>Associated Press. "[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pizza_eating_contest]." ''The Associated Press'' . May 31, 2009. Retrieved June 2, 2009.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2009, he competed again in the Nathan's contest. While he reached 64.5 hot dogs and buns, Chestnut beat him by 3.5 with 68 hot dogs and buns.<ref>[http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272626801.shtml nationnaledger.com, Joey Chestnut Beats Takeru Kobayashi]</ref><br />
<br />
Also on July 2009, Kobayashi visited [[Puerto Rico]] in a special appearance for [[Taco Bell]]'s Why Pay More Challenge, eating 64 tacos in 15 minutes for a local charity.<br />
<ref> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJMm3ex9zg, http://www.blog.insula.tv/2009_07_01_archive.html] </ref><br />
<br />
On June 28, 2010, Kobayashi announced he would not compete in the Nathan's Fourth of July Hot Dog Eating Competition reportedly due to a labor impasse with [[Major League Eating]] over the ability to compete in contests not sanctioned by MLE. Kobayashi, however, was in attendance at the contest, watching from the crowd. After the competition had ended, he attempted to go onto the stage in protest and was taken into custody by police.<ref>http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/</ref><ref>[http://calorielab.com/news/2010/07/03/feds-grant-takeru-kobayashi-special-visa-for-extraordinary-ability/ Feds Grant Takeru Kobayashi Special Visa for “Extraordinary Ability”]</ref><br />
<br />
==Training and techniques==<br />
Kobayashi expands his stomach for a competition by eating larger and larger amounts of food, and then exercises to ensure that fat will not impede expansion of his stomach during a competition.<ref>Talmadge, Eric. "[http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040625f2.htm Pigout champion Kobayashi limbers up for hot dog gold]." ''[[Japan Times]].'' June 25, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> <br />
<br />
Kobayashi's official web site gives his height as 173&nbsp;cm (5&nbsp;ft 8 in) and his weight as 75&nbsp;kg (165&nbsp;lb). However he's weighed as much as 87&nbsp;kg (191.8&nbsp;lb) according to a June 29, 2006 blog entry, and as little as 58&nbsp;kg (128&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition in 2008.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/07/03/2008-07-03_contenders_get_ready_for_nathans_hot_dog.html|title=Contenders get ready for Nathan's hot dog eating contest|date=3 July 2008|publisher=Associated Press|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref> As of July 4, 2009, Kobayashi weighed in at 60&nbsp;kg (132&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition on Coney Island.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2009/07/03/2009-07-03_man_bites_dog__with_one_winner.html|title=Arch rivals square off at Nathan's hot dog-eating weigh-in|date=3 July 2009|publisher=New York Daily News|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi is also known for his trademark body wiggle, referred to by some as the "Kobayashi Shake", to force food down his [[esophagus]] and settle more compactly in his stomach.<ref>Farley, David. "[http://www.timeout.com/newyork/DetailsAr.do?file=/eatout/433/433.eat.feat.html Curious Gorge]." ''[[Time Out (company)|Time Out]].'' January 15, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> He eats the hot dogs by splitting the [[frankfurter]] in half, swallowing both parts at once, and then dipping the buns in water, [[Sprite (soft drink)|Sprite]], or [[7-Up]] and stuffing it in his mouth. He calls this the Solomon method.<ref>Poon, William. "[http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC051262/William/hotdogeatingcontest.htm Nathan’s Famous Hotdog Eating Contest]." ''ThinkQuest.'' Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref><br />
<br />
==Records==<br />
===Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest===<br />
From 2001 to 2006, Kobayashi won [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest#Results|Nathan's Annual Hot Dog Eating Contest]] an unprecedented six times in a row. He held the record for hot dogs eaten in the competition from his first appearance until 2007, when current record holder [[Joey Chestnut]] claimed the first of four consecutive victories.<br />
<br />
====Annual results====<br />
[[File:Takeru Kobayashi Hot Dog Champ by David Shankbone.JPG|right|320px|thumb|Kobayashi's win record on Nathans Wall of Fame, 2007]]<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"<br />
|-<br />
! Year !! Place !! HDB's<br />(hot dogs & buns)<br />
|-<br />
|2001 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50*<br />
|-<br />
|2002 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2003 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 44.5<br />
|-<br />
|2004 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2005 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 49<br />
|-<br />
|2006 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.75*<br />
|-<br />
|2007 || 2nd || 63<br />
|-<br />
|2008<sup>1</sup> || 2nd || 59<br />
|-<br />
|2009 || 2nd || 64.5<br />
|-<br />
|2010 || colspan="2" | DNC<br />(contract dispute) <br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<nowiki>*</nowiki> set new world record<br /><br />
Yellow = World record holder<br /><br />
<sup>1</sup> Contest time reduced from 12 to 10 minutes.<br />
<br />
===Glutton Bowl===<br />
Kobayashi ate 31 hot-dogs in the hot dog eating round, putting him into the finals. For the final round of the [[Glutton Bowl]], the contestants had to eat a bowl of brains. Kobayashi won with a finished plate, of 55 brains.<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Hot Dog Champion (31 Hot Dogs)<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Main Event Champion (55 Brains)<br />
<br />
===Krystal Square Off===<br />
Kobayashi was also the reigning champion of the [[Krystal Square Off]] World Hamburger Eating Championship until 2007, when he could not compete due to a recent [[wisdom tooth]] extraction. The 2007 winner was [[Joey Chestnut]], who ate 103 hamburgers. <br />
* 2009: First Place (93 hamburgers)<br />
* 2008: Third place (84 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://krystalsquareoff.com/blog/video-joey-chestnut-wins-world-world-hamburger-eating-championship-810.html | title=Video: Joey Chestnut Wins World Hamburger Eating Championship | work=Krystal Square Off Blog | date=30 September 2008 | accessdate=21 July 2009}}</ref><br />
* 2006: First place (97 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.tfponline.com/absolutenm/templates/breaking.aspx?articleid=6573 | title=Kobayashi Remains Krystal King | work=Chattanooga Times Free Press | author=Mike O'Neal| date=28 October 2006 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2005: First place (67 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=41 | title=2005 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2004: First place (69 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=4 | title=2004 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Independence Day 2010 Arrest==<br />
<br />
Kobayashi was arrested on July 4th, 2010 during the Nathan's International Hot Dog Eating Contest when he exited the police-barricaded spectator pen and entered the stage after the eating had ended. Initially welcomed by co-host George Shea, security officers quickly ushered him offstage as he resisted vehemently, hanging on to the barricades and fences before being taken into custody. Though some witnesses report that Kobayashi was attempting to congratulate Joey Chestnut's win,<ref>{{cite news|url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/415463-chestnut-wins-for-4th-straight-year-kobayashi-arrested|title=Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest 2010: Joey Chestnut Wins for Fourth Year|date=4 July 2010|publisher= Bleacher Report|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> co-host Richard Shea, however, stated that "[Kobayashi] tried to jump on stage during the awards ceremony to disrupt it."<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/07/04/2010-07-04_joey_jaws_chestnut_wins_nathans_july_fourth_hot_dog_eating_contest.html|title=Joey 'Jaws' Chestnut wins Nathan's July Fourth Hot Dog Eating Contest|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NYDailyNews|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> He was charged with resisting arrest, trespass and obstructing governmental administration.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/|title=Kobayashi arrested after Chestnut’s hot dog win|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NBC Sports|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> Kobayashi was not participating due to a contract dispute as he refused to sign a contract with Major League Eating that would have barred him from participating in events not sanctioned by the League.<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru Kobayashi official website]<br />
*[http://www.ifoce.com/eaters.php?action=detail&sn=22 Takeru Kobayashi] at the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]]<br />
*[http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/sioncampus/07/05/nathans.hotdog/index.html Sports Illustrated feature on 2006 contest]<br />
<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Kobayashi, Takeru}}<br />
[[Category:1978 births]]<br />
[[Category:Japanese competitive eaters]]<br />
[[Category:Living people]]<br />
[[Category:People from Nagano Prefecture]]<br />
[[Category:World record holders]]<br />
<br />
[[ca:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[es:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[eo:Kobayashi Takeru]]<br />
[[fr:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[ko:고바야시 다케루]]<br />
[[ja:小林尊]]<br />
[[pl:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[sv:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[zh:小林尊]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Takeru_Kobayashi&diff=371761066Takeru Kobayashi2010-07-04T21:33:06Z<p>Hmm...: /* Independence Day 2010 Arrest */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{About|the Japanese competitive eater|other uses|Kobayashi}}<br />
<br />
{{Infobox person<br />
| name = Takeru Kobayashi<br />
| aka = Robbie<br />
| image = TakeruKobayashi.jpg<br />
| other_names = "The Tsunami"<br />
| birth_date = {{birth date and age|1978|03|15}}<br />
| birth_place = [[Nagano, Japan]] <br />
| height = {{height|ft=5|in=8}}<br />
| weight = {{convert|128|lb|kg|abbr=on}}-{{convert|192|lb|kg|abbr=on}}<br />
| website = [http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru-Kobayashi.com]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{nihongo|'''Takeru Kobayashi'''|小林尊|Kobayashi Takeru}} (born March 15, 1978) is a [[Japanese people|Japanese]] [[competitive eating|competitive eater]] and a member of the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]] (IFOCE). He held the [[world record]] for [[hot dog]] eating for nearly six years, and holds several other eating records, and is ranked second in the world for competitive eating according to the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]].<br />
==Competition and records==<br />
Born in [[Nagano, Nagano|Nagano]], [[Japan]], Kobayashi set his first record at his rookie appearance on July 4, 2001, when he ate 50 hot dogs in 12 minutes at the [[Nathan's]] [[Coney Island]] [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest|hot dog-eating contest]], doubling the previous record of 25. The record was so unexpected that when Kobayashi got to the later numbers, the organizers ran out of signs indicating how many dogs Kobayashi had eaten and had to resort to handwritten signs. Kobayashi would go on to break his own record three times in winning the contest six consecutive times (2001-2006).<br />
<br />
In 2004 and 2007, there was controversy over Kobayashi's performance when fellow competitors accused him of [[regurgitation (digestion)|regurgitating]] during the competition. Although regurgitation was not explicitly prohibited at the time, once food entered the mouth of a contestant it was not permitted to exit. However, judges did not find him guilty of any infractions and he was not penalized in either incident.<br />
<br />
On June 2, 2007, [[Joey Chestnut]] broke Kobayashi's record with 59.5 hot dogs and buns in a qualifying round for the annual Nathan's contest.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/04/hotdog.contest | title=Champ a top dog again with 49 weiners | work=CNN | author=Allan Chernoff; Adam Reiss; Shannon Troetel | date=4 July 2005 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | title=California man tops Kobayashi's hot dog record | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19004354/ | author=The Associated Press | work=MSNBC | date=2 June 2007|accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
In the 2006 Krystal Square Off, Kobayashi's mark of 97 [[hamburger]]s was 30 better than his winning total in 2005 and 28 better than the World Record he set in 2004. <br />
<br />
At a speed-eating contest in [[Hong Kong]] on August 13, 2005, Kobayashi consumed 83 vegetarian [[jiaozi]] dumplings in 8 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | title=Japan speed-eater in dumpling win | work=BBC News | date=14 August 2005 | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4149974.stm | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> The next day, he ate 100 [[baozi|roasted pork buns]] in 12 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | author=Monday Ng | title=Japan speed eater wolfs down 100 pork buns in 12 minutes | work=[[The Standard]] | date=15 August 2005 | url=http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Metro/GH15Ak02.html | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> Kobayashi also won the 2005 Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating, a three-hour [[IFOCE]] elimination tournament on [[ESPN]],<ref>{{cite news | title=Kobayashi Takes Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating | publisher=International Federation of Competitive Eating | date=31 July 2005 | url=http://www.ifoce.com/news.php?action=detail&sn=275 | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> as well as the [[Glutton Bowl]], a two-hour IFOCE eating special that aired on the [[Fox Network]] in 2002.<ref>{{cite web | author=Tama Miyake | title=Feature: Fast food | work=Metropolis Japan | url=http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/431/feature.asp | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | author=Amy Moon | title=Asian Pop: Superchomp Korean-born Sonya Thomas is the No. 1 ranked competitive eater in the USA. | work=[[San Francisco Chronicle]] | date=26 May 2005 | url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2005/05/26/eat.DTL | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> However, on Fox's 2003 show ''Man vs. Beast'', Kobayashi lost in an eating competition against a 1089-pound [[Kodiak bear]], when he ate 31 bunless hot dogs in 2 minutes and 36 seconds to the bear's 50.<ref>{{cite news | author=Larry Getlen| title=The Miracle That Is Kobayashi | url=http://www.blacktable.com/getlen050519.htm | work=The Black Table | date=19 May 2005| accessdate=23 February 2008}}</ref><br />
<br />
On August 5, 2006, Kobayashi set yet another world record at the [[Johnsonville Foods|Johnsonville]] World Bratwurst Eating Championship in [[Sheboygan, Wisconsin]], by downing 58 [[bratwurst]] sausages in 10 minutes, shattering the previous record of 35 set the previous year by [[Sonya Thomas]].<ref>{{cite news | author=The Associated Press | title=Kobayashi eats record 58 brats in Sheboygan | work=USA Today | date=5 August 2006 | url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2006-08-05-brat-record_x.htm | accessdate=1 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
On September 23, 2006, Takeru Kobayashi set the world record at the Phantom Food Festival in [[Boston, Massachusetts]], for eating 41 Summer Shack [[lobster]] rolls in 10 minutes, replacing the previous record of 22 rolls.<br />
<br />
Other world-eating records held by Kobayashi include 17.7 pounds of cow brains in 15 minutes and 20 pounds (9&nbsp;kg) of rice balls in 30 minutes.<br />
<br />
On June 25, 2007, Kobayashi announced on his blog that he seriously injured his jaw during training. He stated that he could only open his jaw about the width of a fingertip. Kobayashi's participation in the July 4, 2007, Nathan's contest continued as scheduled. He was able to eat a personal record 63 hot dogs, though his mark was bettered by Chestnut's 66.<ref>Agence France-Presse. "[http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21963756-5012895,00.html Jaw arthritis for hot-dog champ]." ''The Daily Telegraph''. June 25, 2007. Retrieved June 25, 2007.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2008, Kobayashi once again competed in the Nathan's contest. He and Chestnut reached a tie of 59 hot dogs and buns each, but he came in second to Chestnut in a 5-dog tiebreaker eatoff.<ref>[http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080706/FEAT0108/807060331 journalgazette.net, 3RF contest could be a wiener]</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi went on to defeat Chestnut, May 31, 2009, in a [[Pizza Hut]] [[P'zone|P'Zone]] competition at [[Sony Studios]] in [[Culver City]], [[California]]. The competition aired on [[Spike TV]] on June 21.<ref>Associated Press. "[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pizza_eating_contest]." ''The Associated Press'' . May 31, 2009. Retrieved June 2, 2009.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2009, he competed again in the Nathan's contest. While he reached 64.5 hot dogs and buns, Chestnut beat him by 3.5 with 68 hot dogs and buns.<ref>[http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272626801.shtml nationnaledger.com, Joey Chestnut Beats Takeru Kobayashi]</ref><br />
<br />
Also on July 2009, Kobayashi visited [[Puerto Rico]] in a special appearance for [[Taco Bell]]'s Why Pay More Challenge, eating 64 tacos in 15 minutes for a local charity.<br />
<ref> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJMm3ex9zg, http://www.blog.insula.tv/2009_07_01_archive.html] </ref><br />
<br />
On June 28, 2010, Kobayashi announced he would not compete in the Nathan's Fourth of July Hot Dog Eating Competition reportedly due to a labor impasse with [[Major League Eating]] over the ability to compete in contests not sanctioned by MLE. Kobayashi, however, was in attendance at the contest, watching from the crowd. After the competition had ended, he attempted to go onto the stage in protest and was taken into custody by police.<ref>http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/</ref><ref>[http://calorielab.com/news/2010/07/03/feds-grant-takeru-kobayashi-special-visa-for-extraordinary-ability/ Feds Grant Takeru Kobayashi Special Visa for “Extraordinary Ability”]</ref><br />
<br />
==Training and techniques==<br />
Kobayashi expands his stomach for a competition by eating larger and larger amounts of food, and then exercises to ensure that fat will not impede expansion of his stomach during a competition.<ref>Talmadge, Eric. "[http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040625f2.htm Pigout champion Kobayashi limbers up for hot dog gold]." ''[[Japan Times]].'' June 25, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> <br />
<br />
Kobayashi's official web site gives his height as 173&nbsp;cm (5&nbsp;ft 8 in) and his weight as 75&nbsp;kg (165&nbsp;lb). However he's weighed as much as 87&nbsp;kg (191.8&nbsp;lb) according to a June 29, 2006 blog entry, and as little as 58&nbsp;kg (128&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition in 2008.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/07/03/2008-07-03_contenders_get_ready_for_nathans_hot_dog.html|title=Contenders get ready for Nathan's hot dog eating contest|date=3 July 2008|publisher=Associated Press|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref> As of July 4, 2009, Kobayashi weighed in at 60&nbsp;kg (132&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition on Coney Island.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2009/07/03/2009-07-03_man_bites_dog__with_one_winner.html|title=Arch rivals square off at Nathan's hot dog-eating weigh-in|date=3 July 2009|publisher=New York Daily News|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi is also known for his trademark body wiggle, referred to by some as the "Kobayashi Shake", to force food down his [[esophagus]] and settle more compactly in his stomach.<ref>Farley, David. "[http://www.timeout.com/newyork/DetailsAr.do?file=/eatout/433/433.eat.feat.html Curious Gorge]." ''[[Time Out (company)|Time Out]].'' January 15, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> He eats the hot dogs by splitting the [[frankfurter]] in half, swallowing both parts at once, and then dipping the buns in water, [[Sprite (soft drink)|Sprite]], or [[7-Up]] and stuffing it in his mouth. He calls this the Solomon method.<ref>Poon, William. "[http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC051262/William/hotdogeatingcontest.htm Nathan’s Famous Hotdog Eating Contest]." ''ThinkQuest.'' Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref><br />
<br />
==Records==<br />
===Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest===<br />
From 2001 to 2006, Kobayashi won [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest#Results|Nathan's Annual Hot Dog Eating Contest]] an unprecedented six times in a row. He held the record for hot dogs eaten in the competition from his first appearance until 2007, when current record holder [[Joey Chestnut]] claimed the first of four consecutive victories.<br />
<br />
====Annual results====<br />
[[File:Takeru Kobayashi Hot Dog Champ by David Shankbone.JPG|right|320px|thumb|Kobayashi's win record on Nathans Wall of Fame, 2007]]<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"<br />
|-<br />
! Year !! Place !! HDB's<br />(hot dogs & buns)<br />
|-<br />
|2001 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50*<br />
|-<br />
|2002 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2003 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 44.5<br />
|-<br />
|2004 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2005 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 49<br />
|-<br />
|2006 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.75*<br />
|-<br />
|2007 || 2nd || 63<br />
|-<br />
|2008<sup>1</sup> || 2nd || 59<br />
|-<br />
|2009 || 2nd || 64.5<br />
|-<br />
|2010 || colspan="2" | DNC<br />(contract dispute) <br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<nowiki>*</nowiki> set new world record<br /><br />
Yellow = World record holder<br /><br />
<sup>1</sup> Contest time reduced from 12 to 10 minutes.<br />
<br />
===Glutton Bowl===<br />
Kobayashi ate 31 hot-dogs in the hot dog eating round, putting him into the finals. For the final round of the [[Glutton Bowl]], the contestants had to eat a bowl of brains. Kobayashi won with a finished plate, of 55 brains.<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Hot Dog Champion (31 Hot Dogs)<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Main Event Champion (55 Brains)<br />
<br />
===Krystal Square Off===<br />
Kobayashi was also the reigning champion of the [[Krystal Square Off]] World Hamburger Eating Championship until 2007, when he could not compete due to a recent [[wisdom tooth]] extraction. The 2007 winner was [[Joey Chestnut]], who ate 103 hamburgers. <br />
* 2009: First Place (93 hamburgers)<br />
* 2008: Third place (84 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://krystalsquareoff.com/blog/video-joey-chestnut-wins-world-world-hamburger-eating-championship-810.html | title=Video: Joey Chestnut Wins World Hamburger Eating Championship | work=Krystal Square Off Blog | date=30 September 2008 | accessdate=21 July 2009}}</ref><br />
* 2006: First place (97 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.tfponline.com/absolutenm/templates/breaking.aspx?articleid=6573 | title=Kobayashi Remains Krystal King | work=Chattanooga Times Free Press | author=Mike O'Neal| date=28 October 2006 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2005: First place (67 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=41 | title=2005 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2004: First place (69 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=4 | title=2004 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Independence Day 2010 Arrest==<br />
<br />
Kobayashi was arrested on July 4th, 2010 during the Nathan's International Hot Dog Eating Contest when he exited the police-barricaded spectator pen and entered the stage after the eating had ended. Initially welcomed by co-host George Shea, security officers quickly ushered him offstage as he resisted vehemently, hanging on to the barricades and fences before being taken into custody. Thought some witnesses report that Kobayashi was attempting to congratulate Joey Chestnut's win,<ref>{{cite news|url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/415463-chestnut-wins-for-4th-straight-year-kobayashi-arrested|title=Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest 2010: Joey Chestnut Wins for Fourth Year|date=4 July 2010|publisher= Bleacher Report|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> co-host Richard Shea, however, stated that "[Kobayashi] tried to jump on stage during the awards ceremony to disrupt it."<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/07/04/2010-07-04_joey_jaws_chestnut_wins_nathans_july_fourth_hot_dog_eating_contest.html|title=Joey 'Jaws' Chestnut wins Nathan's July Fourth Hot Dog Eating Contest|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NYDailyNews|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> He was charged with resisting arrest, trespass and obstructing governmental administration.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/|title=Kobayashi arrested after Chestnut’s hot dog win|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NBC Sports|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> Kobayashi was not participating due to a contract dispute as he refused to sign a contract with Major League Eating that would have barred him from participating in events not sanctioned by the League.<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru Kobayashi official website]<br />
*[http://www.ifoce.com/eaters.php?action=detail&sn=22 Takeru Kobayashi] at the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]]<br />
*[http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/sioncampus/07/05/nathans.hotdog/index.html Sports Illustrated feature on 2006 contest]<br />
<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Kobayashi, Takeru}}<br />
[[Category:1978 births]]<br />
[[Category:Japanese competitive eaters]]<br />
[[Category:Living people]]<br />
[[Category:People from Nagano Prefecture]]<br />
[[Category:World record holders]]<br />
<br />
[[ca:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[es:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[eo:Kobayashi Takeru]]<br />
[[fr:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[ko:고바야시 다케루]]<br />
[[ja:小林尊]]<br />
[[pl:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[sv:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[zh:小林尊]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Takeru_Kobayashi&diff=371759938Takeru Kobayashi2010-07-04T21:25:48Z<p>Hmm...: /* Independence Day 2010 Arrest */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{About|the Japanese competitive eater|other uses|Kobayashi}}<br />
<br />
{{Infobox person<br />
| name = Takeru Kobayashi<br />
| aka = Robbie<br />
| image = TakeruKobayashi.jpg<br />
| other_names = "The Tsunami"<br />
| birth_date = {{birth date and age|1978|03|15}}<br />
| birth_place = [[Nagano, Japan]] <br />
| height = {{height|ft=5|in=8}}<br />
| weight = {{convert|128|lb|kg|abbr=on}}-{{convert|192|lb|kg|abbr=on}}<br />
| website = [http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru-Kobayashi.com]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{nihongo|'''Takeru Kobayashi'''|小林尊|Kobayashi Takeru}} (born March 15, 1978) is a [[Japanese people|Japanese]] [[competitive eating|competitive eater]] and a member of the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]] (IFOCE). He held the [[world record]] for [[hot dog]] eating for nearly six years, and holds several other eating records, and is ranked second in the world for competitive eating according to the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]].<br />
==Competition and records==<br />
Born in [[Nagano, Nagano|Nagano]], [[Japan]], Kobayashi set his first record at his rookie appearance on July 4, 2001, when he ate 50 hot dogs in 12 minutes at the [[Nathan's]] [[Coney Island]] [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest|hot dog-eating contest]], doubling the previous record of 25. The record was so unexpected that when Kobayashi got to the later numbers, the organizers ran out of signs indicating how many dogs Kobayashi had eaten and had to resort to handwritten signs. Kobayashi would go on to break his own record three times in winning the contest six consecutive times (2001-2006).<br />
<br />
In 2004 and 2007, there was controversy over Kobayashi's performance when fellow competitors accused him of [[regurgitation (digestion)|regurgitating]] during the competition. Although regurgitation was not explicitly prohibited at the time, once food entered the mouth of a contestant it was not permitted to exit. However, judges did not find him guilty of any infractions and he was not penalized in either incident.<br />
<br />
On June 2, 2007, [[Joey Chestnut]] broke Kobayashi's record with 59.5 hot dogs and buns in a qualifying round for the annual Nathan's contest.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/04/hotdog.contest | title=Champ a top dog again with 49 weiners | work=CNN | author=Allan Chernoff; Adam Reiss; Shannon Troetel | date=4 July 2005 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | title=California man tops Kobayashi's hot dog record | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19004354/ | author=The Associated Press | work=MSNBC | date=2 June 2007|accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
In the 2006 Krystal Square Off, Kobayashi's mark of 97 [[hamburger]]s was 30 better than his winning total in 2005 and 28 better than the World Record he set in 2004. <br />
<br />
At a speed-eating contest in [[Hong Kong]] on August 13, 2005, Kobayashi consumed 83 vegetarian [[jiaozi]] dumplings in 8 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | title=Japan speed-eater in dumpling win | work=BBC News | date=14 August 2005 | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4149974.stm | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> The next day, he ate 100 [[baozi|roasted pork buns]] in 12 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | author=Monday Ng | title=Japan speed eater wolfs down 100 pork buns in 12 minutes | work=[[The Standard]] | date=15 August 2005 | url=http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Metro/GH15Ak02.html | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> Kobayashi also won the 2005 Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating, a three-hour [[IFOCE]] elimination tournament on [[ESPN]],<ref>{{cite news | title=Kobayashi Takes Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating | publisher=International Federation of Competitive Eating | date=31 July 2005 | url=http://www.ifoce.com/news.php?action=detail&sn=275 | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> as well as the [[Glutton Bowl]], a two-hour IFOCE eating special that aired on the [[Fox Network]] in 2002.<ref>{{cite web | author=Tama Miyake | title=Feature: Fast food | work=Metropolis Japan | url=http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/431/feature.asp | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | author=Amy Moon | title=Asian Pop: Superchomp Korean-born Sonya Thomas is the No. 1 ranked competitive eater in the USA. | work=[[San Francisco Chronicle]] | date=26 May 2005 | url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2005/05/26/eat.DTL | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> However, on Fox's 2003 show ''Man vs. Beast'', Kobayashi lost in an eating competition against a 1089-pound [[Kodiak bear]], when he ate 31 bunless hot dogs in 2 minutes and 36 seconds to the bear's 50.<ref>{{cite news | author=Larry Getlen| title=The Miracle That Is Kobayashi | url=http://www.blacktable.com/getlen050519.htm | work=The Black Table | date=19 May 2005| accessdate=23 February 2008}}</ref><br />
<br />
On August 5, 2006, Kobayashi set yet another world record at the [[Johnsonville Foods|Johnsonville]] World Bratwurst Eating Championship in [[Sheboygan, Wisconsin]], by downing 58 [[bratwurst]] sausages in 10 minutes, shattering the previous record of 35 set the previous year by [[Sonya Thomas]].<ref>{{cite news | author=The Associated Press | title=Kobayashi eats record 58 brats in Sheboygan | work=USA Today | date=5 August 2006 | url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2006-08-05-brat-record_x.htm | accessdate=1 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
On September 23, 2006, Takeru Kobayashi set the world record at the Phantom Food Festival in [[Boston, Massachusetts]], for eating 41 Summer Shack [[lobster]] rolls in 10 minutes, replacing the previous record of 22 rolls.<br />
<br />
Other world-eating records held by Kobayashi include 17.7 pounds of cow brains in 15 minutes and 20 pounds (9&nbsp;kg) of rice balls in 30 minutes.<br />
<br />
On June 25, 2007, Kobayashi announced on his blog that he seriously injured his jaw during training. He stated that he could only open his jaw about the width of a fingertip. Kobayashi's participation in the July 4, 2007, Nathan's contest continued as scheduled. He was able to eat a personal record 63 hot dogs, though his mark was bettered by Chestnut's 66.<ref>Agence France-Presse. "[http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21963756-5012895,00.html Jaw arthritis for hot-dog champ]." ''The Daily Telegraph''. June 25, 2007. Retrieved June 25, 2007.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2008, Kobayashi once again competed in the Nathan's contest. He and Chestnut reached a tie of 59 hot dogs and buns each, but he came in second to Chestnut in a 5-dog tiebreaker eatoff.<ref>[http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080706/FEAT0108/807060331 journalgazette.net, 3RF contest could be a wiener]</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi went on to defeat Chestnut, May 31, 2009, in a [[Pizza Hut]] [[P'zone|P'Zone]] competition at [[Sony Studios]] in [[Culver City]], [[California]]. The competition aired on [[Spike TV]] on June 21.<ref>Associated Press. "[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pizza_eating_contest]." ''The Associated Press'' . May 31, 2009. Retrieved June 2, 2009.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2009, he competed again in the Nathan's contest. While he reached 64.5 hot dogs and buns, Chestnut beat him by 3.5 with 68 hot dogs and buns.<ref>[http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272626801.shtml nationnaledger.com, Joey Chestnut Beats Takeru Kobayashi]</ref><br />
<br />
Also on July 2009, Kobayashi visited [[Puerto Rico]] in a special appearance for [[Taco Bell]]'s Why Pay More Challenge, eating 64 tacos in 15 minutes for a local charity.<br />
<ref> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJMm3ex9zg, http://www.blog.insula.tv/2009_07_01_archive.html] </ref><br />
<br />
On June 28, 2010, Kobayashi announced he would not compete in the Nathan's Fourth of July Hot Dog Eating Competition reportedly due to a labor impasse with [[Major League Eating]] over the ability to compete in contests not sanctioned by MLE. Kobayashi, however, was in attendance at the contest, watching from the crowd. After the competition had ended, he attempted to go onto the stage in protest and was taken into custody by police.<ref>http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/</ref><ref>[http://calorielab.com/news/2010/07/03/feds-grant-takeru-kobayashi-special-visa-for-extraordinary-ability/ Feds Grant Takeru Kobayashi Special Visa for “Extraordinary Ability”]</ref><br />
<br />
==Training and techniques==<br />
Kobayashi expands his stomach for a competition by eating larger and larger amounts of food, and then exercises to ensure that fat will not impede expansion of his stomach during a competition.<ref>Talmadge, Eric. "[http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040625f2.htm Pigout champion Kobayashi limbers up for hot dog gold]." ''[[Japan Times]].'' June 25, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> <br />
<br />
Kobayashi's official web site gives his height as 173&nbsp;cm (5&nbsp;ft 8 in) and his weight as 75&nbsp;kg (165&nbsp;lb). However he's weighed as much as 87&nbsp;kg (191.8&nbsp;lb) according to a June 29, 2006 blog entry, and as little as 58&nbsp;kg (128&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition in 2008.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/07/03/2008-07-03_contenders_get_ready_for_nathans_hot_dog.html|title=Contenders get ready for Nathan's hot dog eating contest|date=3 July 2008|publisher=Associated Press|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref> As of July 4, 2009, Kobayashi weighed in at 60&nbsp;kg (132&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition on Coney Island.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2009/07/03/2009-07-03_man_bites_dog__with_one_winner.html|title=Arch rivals square off at Nathan's hot dog-eating weigh-in|date=3 July 2009|publisher=New York Daily News|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi is also known for his trademark body wiggle, referred to by some as the "Kobayashi Shake", to force food down his [[esophagus]] and settle more compactly in his stomach.<ref>Farley, David. "[http://www.timeout.com/newyork/DetailsAr.do?file=/eatout/433/433.eat.feat.html Curious Gorge]." ''[[Time Out (company)|Time Out]].'' January 15, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> He eats the hot dogs by splitting the [[frankfurter]] in half, swallowing both parts at once, and then dipping the buns in water, [[Sprite (soft drink)|Sprite]], or [[7-Up]] and stuffing it in his mouth. He calls this the Solomon method.<ref>Poon, William. "[http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC051262/William/hotdogeatingcontest.htm Nathan’s Famous Hotdog Eating Contest]." ''ThinkQuest.'' Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref><br />
<br />
==Records==<br />
===Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest===<br />
From 2001 to 2006, Kobayashi won [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest#Results|Nathan's Annual Hot Dog Eating Contest]] an unprecedented six times in a row. He held the record for hot dogs eaten in the competition from his first appearance until 2007, when current record holder [[Joey Chestnut]] claimed the first of four consecutive victories.<br />
<br />
====Annual results====<br />
[[File:Takeru Kobayashi Hot Dog Champ by David Shankbone.JPG|right|320px|thumb|Kobayashi's win record on Nathans Wall of Fame, 2007]]<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"<br />
|-<br />
! Year !! Place !! HDB's<br />(hot dogs & buns)<br />
|-<br />
|2001 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50*<br />
|-<br />
|2002 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2003 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 44.5<br />
|-<br />
|2004 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2005 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 49<br />
|-<br />
|2006 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.75*<br />
|-<br />
|2007 || 2nd || 63<br />
|-<br />
|2008<sup>1</sup> || 2nd || 59<br />
|-<br />
|2009 || 2nd || 64.5<br />
|-<br />
|2010 || colspan="2" | DNC<br />(contract dispute) <br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<nowiki>*</nowiki> set new world record<br /><br />
Yellow = World record holder<br /><br />
<sup>1</sup> Contest time reduced from 12 to 10 minutes.<br />
<br />
===Glutton Bowl===<br />
Kobayashi ate 31 hot-dogs in the hot dog eating round, putting him into the finals. For the final round of the [[Glutton Bowl]], the contestants had to eat a bowl of brains. Kobayashi won with a finished plate, of 55 brains.<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Hot Dog Champion (31 Hot Dogs)<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Main Event Champion (55 Brains)<br />
<br />
===Krystal Square Off===<br />
Kobayashi was also the reigning champion of the [[Krystal Square Off]] World Hamburger Eating Championship until 2007, when he could not compete due to a recent [[wisdom tooth]] extraction. The 2007 winner was [[Joey Chestnut]], who ate 103 hamburgers. <br />
* 2009: First Place (93 hamburgers)<br />
* 2008: Third place (84 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://krystalsquareoff.com/blog/video-joey-chestnut-wins-world-world-hamburger-eating-championship-810.html | title=Video: Joey Chestnut Wins World Hamburger Eating Championship | work=Krystal Square Off Blog | date=30 September 2008 | accessdate=21 July 2009}}</ref><br />
* 2006: First place (97 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.tfponline.com/absolutenm/templates/breaking.aspx?articleid=6573 | title=Kobayashi Remains Krystal King | work=Chattanooga Times Free Press | author=Mike O'Neal| date=28 October 2006 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2005: First place (67 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=41 | title=2005 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2004: First place (69 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=4 | title=2004 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Independence Day 2010 Arrest==<br />
<br />
Kobayashi was arrested on July 4th, 2010 during the Nathan's International Hot Dog Eating Contest when he exited the police-barricaded spectator pen and entered the stage after the eating had ended. Initially welcomed by co-host George Shea, security officers quickly ushered him offstage as he resisted vehemently, hanging on to the barricades and fences before being taken into custody. Co-host Richard Shea, however, stated that "He[Kobayashi] tried to jump on stage during the awards ceremony to disrupt it."<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/07/04/2010-07-04_joey_jaws_chestnut_wins_nathans_july_fourth_hot_dog_eating_contest.html|title=Joey 'Jaws' Chestnut wins Nathan's July Fourth Hot Dog Eating Contest|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NYDailyNews|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> He was charged with resisting arrest, trespass and obstructing governmental administration.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/|title=Kobayashi arrested after Chestnut’s hot dog win|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NBC Sports|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> Kobayashi was not participating due to a contract dispute as he refused to sign a contract with Major League Eating that would have barred him from participating in events not sanctioned by the League.<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru Kobayashi official website]<br />
*[http://www.ifoce.com/eaters.php?action=detail&sn=22 Takeru Kobayashi] at the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]]<br />
*[http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/sioncampus/07/05/nathans.hotdog/index.html Sports Illustrated feature on 2006 contest]<br />
<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Kobayashi, Takeru}}<br />
[[Category:1978 births]]<br />
[[Category:Japanese competitive eaters]]<br />
[[Category:Living people]]<br />
[[Category:People from Nagano Prefecture]]<br />
[[Category:World record holders]]<br />
<br />
[[ca:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[es:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[eo:Kobayashi Takeru]]<br />
[[fr:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[ko:고바야시 다케루]]<br />
[[ja:小林尊]]<br />
[[pl:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[sv:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[zh:小林尊]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Takeru_Kobayashi&diff=371757541Takeru Kobayashi2010-07-04T21:10:15Z<p>Hmm...: /* Independence Day 2010 Arrest */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{About|the Japanese competitive eater|other uses|Kobayashi}}<br />
<br />
{{Infobox person<br />
| name = Takeru Kobayashi<br />
| aka = Robbie<br />
| image = TakeruKobayashi.jpg<br />
| other_names = "The Tsunami"<br />
| birth_date = {{birth date and age|1978|03|15}}<br />
| birth_place = [[Nagano, Japan]] <br />
| height = {{height|ft=5|in=8}}<br />
| weight = {{convert|128|lb|kg|abbr=on}}-{{convert|192|lb|kg|abbr=on}}<br />
| website = [http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru-Kobayashi.com]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{nihongo|'''Takeru Kobayashi'''|小林尊|Kobayashi Takeru}} (born March 15, 1978) is a [[Japanese people|Japanese]] [[competitive eating|competitive eater]] and a member of the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]] (IFOCE). He held the [[world record]] for [[hot dog]] eating for nearly six years, and holds several other eating records, and is ranked second in the world for competitive eating according to the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]].<br />
==Competition and records==<br />
Born in [[Nagano, Nagano|Nagano]], [[Japan]], Kobayashi set his first record at his rookie appearance on July 4, 2001, when he ate 50 hot dogs in 12 minutes at the [[Nathan's]] [[Coney Island]] [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest|hot dog-eating contest]], doubling the previous record of 25. The record was so unexpected that when Kobayashi got to the later numbers, the organizers ran out of signs indicating how many dogs Kobayashi had eaten and had to resort to handwritten signs. Kobayashi would go on to break his own record three times in winning the contest six consecutive times (2001-2006).<br />
<br />
In 2004 and 2007, there was controversy over Kobayashi's performance when fellow competitors accused him of [[regurgitation (digestion)|regurgitating]] during the competition. Although regurgitation was not explicitly prohibited at the time, once food entered the mouth of a contestant it was not permitted to exit. However, judges did not find him guilty of any infractions and he was not penalized in either incident.<br />
<br />
On June 2, 2007, [[Joey Chestnut]] broke Kobayashi's record with 59.5 hot dogs and buns in a qualifying round for the annual Nathan's contest.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/04/hotdog.contest | title=Champ a top dog again with 49 weiners | work=CNN | author=Allan Chernoff; Adam Reiss; Shannon Troetel | date=4 July 2005 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | title=California man tops Kobayashi's hot dog record | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19004354/ | author=The Associated Press | work=MSNBC | date=2 June 2007|accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
In the 2006 Krystal Square Off, Kobayashi's mark of 97 [[hamburger]]s was 30 better than his winning total in 2005 and 28 better than the World Record he set in 2004. <br />
<br />
At a speed-eating contest in [[Hong Kong]] on August 13, 2005, Kobayashi consumed 83 vegetarian [[jiaozi]] dumplings in 8 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | title=Japan speed-eater in dumpling win | work=BBC News | date=14 August 2005 | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4149974.stm | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> The next day, he ate 100 [[baozi|roasted pork buns]] in 12 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | author=Monday Ng | title=Japan speed eater wolfs down 100 pork buns in 12 minutes | work=[[The Standard]] | date=15 August 2005 | url=http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Metro/GH15Ak02.html | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> Kobayashi also won the 2005 Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating, a three-hour [[IFOCE]] elimination tournament on [[ESPN]],<ref>{{cite news | title=Kobayashi Takes Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating | publisher=International Federation of Competitive Eating | date=31 July 2005 | url=http://www.ifoce.com/news.php?action=detail&sn=275 | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> as well as the [[Glutton Bowl]], a two-hour IFOCE eating special that aired on the [[Fox Network]] in 2002.<ref>{{cite web | author=Tama Miyake | title=Feature: Fast food | work=Metropolis Japan | url=http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/431/feature.asp | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | author=Amy Moon | title=Asian Pop: Superchomp Korean-born Sonya Thomas is the No. 1 ranked competitive eater in the USA. | work=[[San Francisco Chronicle]] | date=26 May 2005 | url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2005/05/26/eat.DTL | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> However, on Fox's 2003 show ''Man vs. Beast'', Kobayashi lost in an eating competition against a 1089-pound [[Kodiak bear]], when he ate 31 bunless hot dogs in 2 minutes and 36 seconds to the bear's 50.<ref>{{cite news | author=Larry Getlen| title=The Miracle That Is Kobayashi | url=http://www.blacktable.com/getlen050519.htm | work=The Black Table | date=19 May 2005| accessdate=23 February 2008}}</ref><br />
<br />
On August 5, 2006, Kobayashi set yet another world record at the [[Johnsonville Foods|Johnsonville]] World Bratwurst Eating Championship in [[Sheboygan, Wisconsin]], by downing 58 [[bratwurst]] sausages in 10 minutes, shattering the previous record of 35 set the previous year by [[Sonya Thomas]].<ref>{{cite news | author=The Associated Press | title=Kobayashi eats record 58 brats in Sheboygan | work=USA Today | date=5 August 2006 | url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2006-08-05-brat-record_x.htm | accessdate=1 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
On September 23, 2006, Takeru Kobayashi set the world record at the Phantom Food Festival in [[Boston, Massachusetts]], for eating 41 Summer Shack [[lobster]] rolls in 10 minutes, replacing the previous record of 22 rolls.<br />
<br />
Other world-eating records held by Kobayashi include 17.7 pounds of cow brains in 15 minutes and 20 pounds (9&nbsp;kg) of rice balls in 30 minutes.<br />
<br />
On June 25, 2007, Kobayashi announced on his blog that he seriously injured his jaw during training. He stated that he could only open his jaw about the width of a fingertip. Kobayashi's participation in the July 4, 2007, Nathan's contest continued as scheduled. He was able to eat a personal record 63 hot dogs, though his mark was bettered by Chestnut's 66.<ref>Agence France-Presse. "[http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21963756-5012895,00.html Jaw arthritis for hot-dog champ]." ''The Daily Telegraph''. June 25, 2007. Retrieved June 25, 2007.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2008, Kobayashi once again competed in the Nathan's contest. He and Chestnut reached a tie of 59 hot dogs and buns each, but he came in second to Chestnut in a 5-dog tiebreaker eatoff.<ref>[http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080706/FEAT0108/807060331 journalgazette.net, 3RF contest could be a wiener]</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi went on to defeat Chestnut, May 31, 2009, in a [[Pizza Hut]] [[P'zone|P'Zone]] competition at [[Sony Studios]] in [[Culver City]], [[California]]. The competition aired on [[Spike TV]] on June 21.<ref>Associated Press. "[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pizza_eating_contest]." ''The Associated Press'' . May 31, 2009. Retrieved June 2, 2009.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2009, he competed again in the Nathan's contest. While he reached 64.5 hot dogs and buns, Chestnut beat him by 3.5 with 68 hot dogs and buns.<ref>[http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272626801.shtml nationnaledger.com, Joey Chestnut Beats Takeru Kobayashi]</ref><br />
<br />
Also on July 2009, Kobayashi visited [[Puerto Rico]] in a special appearance for [[Taco Bell]]'s Why Pay More Challenge, eating 64 tacos in 15 minutes for a local charity.<br />
<ref> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJMm3ex9zg, http://www.blog.insula.tv/2009_07_01_archive.html] </ref><br />
<br />
On June 28, 2010, Kobayashi announced he would not compete in the Nathan's Fourth of July Hot Dog Eating Competition reportedly due to a labor impasse with [[Major League Eating]] over the ability to compete in contests not sanctioned by MLE. Kobayashi, however, was in attendance at the contest, watching from the crowd. After the competition had ended, he attempted to go onto the stage in protest and was taken into custody by police.<ref>http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/</ref><ref>[http://calorielab.com/news/2010/07/03/feds-grant-takeru-kobayashi-special-visa-for-extraordinary-ability/ Feds Grant Takeru Kobayashi Special Visa for “Extraordinary Ability”]</ref><br />
<br />
==Training and techniques==<br />
Kobayashi expands his stomach for a competition by eating larger and larger amounts of food, and then exercises to ensure that fat will not impede expansion of his stomach during a competition.<ref>Talmadge, Eric. "[http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040625f2.htm Pigout champion Kobayashi limbers up for hot dog gold]." ''[[Japan Times]].'' June 25, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> <br />
<br />
Kobayashi's official web site gives his height as 173&nbsp;cm (5&nbsp;ft 8 in) and his weight as 75&nbsp;kg (165&nbsp;lb). However he's weighed as much as 87&nbsp;kg (191.8&nbsp;lb) according to a June 29, 2006 blog entry, and as little as 58&nbsp;kg (128&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition in 2008.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/07/03/2008-07-03_contenders_get_ready_for_nathans_hot_dog.html|title=Contenders get ready for Nathan's hot dog eating contest|date=3 July 2008|publisher=Associated Press|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref> As of July 4, 2009, Kobayashi weighed in at 60&nbsp;kg (132&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition on Coney Island.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2009/07/03/2009-07-03_man_bites_dog__with_one_winner.html|title=Arch rivals square off at Nathan's hot dog-eating weigh-in|date=3 July 2009|publisher=New York Daily News|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi is also known for his trademark body wiggle, referred to by some as the "Kobayashi Shake", to force food down his [[esophagus]] and settle more compactly in his stomach.<ref>Farley, David. "[http://www.timeout.com/newyork/DetailsAr.do?file=/eatout/433/433.eat.feat.html Curious Gorge]." ''[[Time Out (company)|Time Out]].'' January 15, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> He eats the hot dogs by splitting the [[frankfurter]] in half, swallowing both parts at once, and then dipping the buns in water, [[Sprite (soft drink)|Sprite]], or [[7-Up]] and stuffing it in his mouth. He calls this the Solomon method.<ref>Poon, William. "[http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC051262/William/hotdogeatingcontest.htm Nathan’s Famous Hotdog Eating Contest]." ''ThinkQuest.'' Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref><br />
<br />
==Records==<br />
===Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest===<br />
From 2001 to 2006, Kobayashi won [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest#Results|Nathan's Annual Hot Dog Eating Contest]] an unprecedented six times in a row. He held the record for hot dogs eaten in the competition from his first appearance until 2007, when current record holder [[Joey Chestnut]] claimed the first of four consecutive victories.<br />
<br />
====Annual results====<br />
[[File:Takeru Kobayashi Hot Dog Champ by David Shankbone.JPG|right|320px|thumb|Kobayashi's win record on Nathans Wall of Fame, 2007]]<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"<br />
|-<br />
! Year !! Place !! HDB's<br />(hot dogs & buns)<br />
|-<br />
|2001 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50*<br />
|-<br />
|2002 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2003 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 44.5<br />
|-<br />
|2004 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2005 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 49<br />
|-<br />
|2006 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.75*<br />
|-<br />
|2007 || 2nd || 63<br />
|-<br />
|2008<sup>1</sup> || 2nd || 59<br />
|-<br />
|2009 || 2nd || 64.5<br />
|-<br />
|2010 || colspan="2" | DNC<br />(contract dispute) <br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<nowiki>*</nowiki> set new world record<br /><br />
Yellow = World record holder<br /><br />
<sup>1</sup> Contest time reduced from 12 to 10 minutes.<br />
<br />
===Glutton Bowl===<br />
Kobayashi ate 31 hot-dogs in the hot dog eating round, putting him into the finals. For the final round of the [[Glutton Bowl]], the contestants had to eat a bowl of brains. Kobayashi won with a finished plate, of 55 brains.<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Hot Dog Champion (31 Hot Dogs)<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Main Event Champion (55 Brains)<br />
<br />
===Krystal Square Off===<br />
Kobayashi was also the reigning champion of the [[Krystal Square Off]] World Hamburger Eating Championship until 2007, when he could not compete due to a recent [[wisdom tooth]] extraction. The 2007 winner was [[Joey Chestnut]], who ate 103 hamburgers. <br />
* 2009: First Place (93 hamburgers)<br />
* 2008: Third place (84 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://krystalsquareoff.com/blog/video-joey-chestnut-wins-world-world-hamburger-eating-championship-810.html | title=Video: Joey Chestnut Wins World Hamburger Eating Championship | work=Krystal Square Off Blog | date=30 September 2008 | accessdate=21 July 2009}}</ref><br />
* 2006: First place (97 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.tfponline.com/absolutenm/templates/breaking.aspx?articleid=6573 | title=Kobayashi Remains Krystal King | work=Chattanooga Times Free Press | author=Mike O'Neal| date=28 October 2006 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2005: First place (67 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=41 | title=2005 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2004: First place (69 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=4 | title=2004 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Independence Day 2010 Arrest==<br />
<br />
Kobayashi was arrested on July 4th, 2010 during the Nathan's International Hot Dog Eating Contest when he exited the police-barricaded spectator pen and entered the stage after the eating had ended. Initially welcomed by host George Shea, security officers quickly ushered him offstage as he resisted vehemently, hanging on to the barricades and fences before being taken into custody. He was charged with resisting arrest, trespass and obstructing governmental administration.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/|title=Kobayashi arrested after Chestnut’s hot dog win|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NBC Sports|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> Kobayashi was not participating due to a contract dispute as he refused to sign a contract with Major League Eating that would have prevented him from participating in events not sanctioned by the League.<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru Kobayashi official website]<br />
*[http://www.ifoce.com/eaters.php?action=detail&sn=22 Takeru Kobayashi] at the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]]<br />
*[http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/sioncampus/07/05/nathans.hotdog/index.html Sports Illustrated feature on 2006 contest]<br />
<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Kobayashi, Takeru}}<br />
[[Category:1978 births]]<br />
[[Category:Japanese competitive eaters]]<br />
[[Category:Living people]]<br />
[[Category:People from Nagano Prefecture]]<br />
[[Category:World record holders]]<br />
<br />
[[ca:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[es:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[eo:Kobayashi Takeru]]<br />
[[fr:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[ko:고바야시 다케루]]<br />
[[ja:小林尊]]<br />
[[pl:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[sv:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[zh:小林尊]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Takeru_Kobayashi&diff=371755840Takeru Kobayashi2010-07-04T20:57:53Z<p>Hmm...: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{About|the Japanese competitive eater|other uses|Kobayashi}}<br />
<br />
{{Infobox person<br />
| name = Takeru Kobayashi<br />
| aka = Robbie<br />
| image = TakeruKobayashi.jpg<br />
| other_names = "The Tsunami"<br />
| birth_date = {{birth date and age|1978|03|15}}<br />
| birth_place = [[Nagano, Japan]] <br />
| height = {{height|ft=5|in=8}}<br />
| weight = {{convert|128|lb|kg|abbr=on}}-{{convert|192|lb|kg|abbr=on}}<br />
| website = [http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru-Kobayashi.com]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{nihongo|'''Takeru Kobayashi'''|小林尊|Kobayashi Takeru}} (born March 15, 1978) is a [[Japanese people|Japanese]] [[competitive eating|competitive eater]] and a member of the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]] (IFOCE). He held the [[world record]] for [[hot dog]] eating for nearly six years, and holds several other eating records, and is ranked second in the world for competitive eating according to the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]].<br />
==Competition and records==<br />
Born in [[Nagano, Nagano|Nagano]], [[Japan]], Kobayashi set his first record at his rookie appearance on July 4, 2001, when he ate 50 hot dogs in 12 minutes at the [[Nathan's]] [[Coney Island]] [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest|hot dog-eating contest]], doubling the previous record of 25. The record was so unexpected that when Kobayashi got to the later numbers, the organizers ran out of signs indicating how many dogs Kobayashi had eaten and had to resort to handwritten signs. Kobayashi would go on to break his own record three times in winning the contest six consecutive times (2001-2006).<br />
<br />
In 2004 and 2007, there was controversy over Kobayashi's performance when fellow competitors accused him of [[regurgitation (digestion)|regurgitating]] during the competition. Although regurgitation was not explicitly prohibited at the time, once food entered the mouth of a contestant it was not permitted to exit. However, judges did not find him guilty of any infractions and he was not penalized in either incident.<br />
<br />
On June 2, 2007, [[Joey Chestnut]] broke Kobayashi's record with 59.5 hot dogs and buns in a qualifying round for the annual Nathan's contest.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/04/hotdog.contest | title=Champ a top dog again with 49 weiners | work=CNN | author=Allan Chernoff; Adam Reiss; Shannon Troetel | date=4 July 2005 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | title=California man tops Kobayashi's hot dog record | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19004354/ | author=The Associated Press | work=MSNBC | date=2 June 2007|accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
In the 2006 Krystal Square Off, Kobayashi's mark of 97 [[hamburger]]s was 30 better than his winning total in 2005 and 28 better than the World Record he set in 2004. <br />
<br />
At a speed-eating contest in [[Hong Kong]] on August 13, 2005, Kobayashi consumed 83 vegetarian [[jiaozi]] dumplings in 8 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | title=Japan speed-eater in dumpling win | work=BBC News | date=14 August 2005 | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4149974.stm | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> The next day, he ate 100 [[baozi|roasted pork buns]] in 12 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | author=Monday Ng | title=Japan speed eater wolfs down 100 pork buns in 12 minutes | work=[[The Standard]] | date=15 August 2005 | url=http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Metro/GH15Ak02.html | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> Kobayashi also won the 2005 Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating, a three-hour [[IFOCE]] elimination tournament on [[ESPN]],<ref>{{cite news | title=Kobayashi Takes Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating | publisher=International Federation of Competitive Eating | date=31 July 2005 | url=http://www.ifoce.com/news.php?action=detail&sn=275 | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> as well as the [[Glutton Bowl]], a two-hour IFOCE eating special that aired on the [[Fox Network]] in 2002.<ref>{{cite web | author=Tama Miyake | title=Feature: Fast food | work=Metropolis Japan | url=http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/431/feature.asp | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | author=Amy Moon | title=Asian Pop: Superchomp Korean-born Sonya Thomas is the No. 1 ranked competitive eater in the USA. | work=[[San Francisco Chronicle]] | date=26 May 2005 | url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2005/05/26/eat.DTL | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> However, on Fox's 2003 show ''Man vs. Beast'', Kobayashi lost in an eating competition against a 1089-pound [[Kodiak bear]], when he ate 31 bunless hot dogs in 2 minutes and 36 seconds to the bear's 50.<ref>{{cite news | author=Larry Getlen| title=The Miracle That Is Kobayashi | url=http://www.blacktable.com/getlen050519.htm | work=The Black Table | date=19 May 2005| accessdate=23 February 2008}}</ref><br />
<br />
On August 5, 2006, Kobayashi set yet another world record at the [[Johnsonville Foods|Johnsonville]] World Bratwurst Eating Championship in [[Sheboygan, Wisconsin]], by downing 58 [[bratwurst]] sausages in 10 minutes, shattering the previous record of 35 set the previous year by [[Sonya Thomas]].<ref>{{cite news | author=The Associated Press | title=Kobayashi eats record 58 brats in Sheboygan | work=USA Today | date=5 August 2006 | url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2006-08-05-brat-record_x.htm | accessdate=1 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
On September 23, 2006, Takeru Kobayashi set the world record at the Phantom Food Festival in [[Boston, Massachusetts]], for eating 41 Summer Shack [[lobster]] rolls in 10 minutes, replacing the previous record of 22 rolls.<br />
<br />
Other world-eating records held by Kobayashi include 17.7 pounds of cow brains in 15 minutes and 20 pounds (9&nbsp;kg) of rice balls in 30 minutes.<br />
<br />
On June 25, 2007, Kobayashi announced on his blog that he seriously injured his jaw during training. He stated that he could only open his jaw about the width of a fingertip. Kobayashi's participation in the July 4, 2007, Nathan's contest continued as scheduled. He was able to eat a personal record 63 hot dogs, though his mark was bettered by Chestnut's 66.<ref>Agence France-Presse. "[http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21963756-5012895,00.html Jaw arthritis for hot-dog champ]." ''The Daily Telegraph''. June 25, 2007. Retrieved June 25, 2007.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2008, Kobayashi once again competed in the Nathan's contest. He and Chestnut reached a tie of 59 hot dogs and buns each, but he came in second to Chestnut in a 5-dog tiebreaker eatoff.<ref>[http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080706/FEAT0108/807060331 journalgazette.net, 3RF contest could be a wiener]</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi went on to defeat Chestnut, May 31, 2009, in a [[Pizza Hut]] [[P'zone|P'Zone]] competition at [[Sony Studios]] in [[Culver City]], [[California]]. The competition aired on [[Spike TV]] on June 21.<ref>Associated Press. "[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pizza_eating_contest]." ''The Associated Press'' . May 31, 2009. Retrieved June 2, 2009.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2009, he competed again in the Nathan's contest. While he reached 64.5 hot dogs and buns, Chestnut beat him by 3.5 with 68 hot dogs and buns.<ref>[http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272626801.shtml nationnaledger.com, Joey Chestnut Beats Takeru Kobayashi]</ref><br />
<br />
Also on July 2009, Kobayashi visited [[Puerto Rico]] in a special appearance for [[Taco Bell]]'s Why Pay More Challenge, eating 64 tacos in 15 minutes for a local charity.<br />
<ref> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJMm3ex9zg, http://www.blog.insula.tv/2009_07_01_archive.html] </ref><br />
<br />
On June 28, 2010, Kobayashi announced he would not compete in the Nathan's Fourth of July Hot Dog Eating Competition reportedly due to a labor impasse with [[Major League Eating]] over the ability to compete in contests not sanctioned by MLE. Kobayashi, however, was in attendance at the contest, watching from the crowd. After the competition had ended, he attempted to go onto the stage in protest and was taken into custody by police.<ref>http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/</ref><ref>[http://calorielab.com/news/2010/07/03/feds-grant-takeru-kobayashi-special-visa-for-extraordinary-ability/ Feds Grant Takeru Kobayashi Special Visa for “Extraordinary Ability”]</ref><br />
<br />
==Training and techniques==<br />
Kobayashi expands his stomach for a competition by eating larger and larger amounts of food, and then exercises to ensure that fat will not impede expansion of his stomach during a competition.<ref>Talmadge, Eric. "[http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040625f2.htm Pigout champion Kobayashi limbers up for hot dog gold]." ''[[Japan Times]].'' June 25, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> <br />
<br />
Kobayashi's official web site gives his height as 173&nbsp;cm (5&nbsp;ft 8 in) and his weight as 75&nbsp;kg (165&nbsp;lb). However he's weighed as much as 87&nbsp;kg (191.8&nbsp;lb) according to a June 29, 2006 blog entry, and as little as 58&nbsp;kg (128&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition in 2008.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/07/03/2008-07-03_contenders_get_ready_for_nathans_hot_dog.html|title=Contenders get ready for Nathan's hot dog eating contest|date=3 July 2008|publisher=Associated Press|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref> As of July 4, 2009, Kobayashi weighed in at 60&nbsp;kg (132&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition on Coney Island.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2009/07/03/2009-07-03_man_bites_dog__with_one_winner.html|title=Arch rivals square off at Nathan's hot dog-eating weigh-in|date=3 July 2009|publisher=New York Daily News|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi is also known for his trademark body wiggle, referred to by some as the "Kobayashi Shake", to force food down his [[esophagus]] and settle more compactly in his stomach.<ref>Farley, David. "[http://www.timeout.com/newyork/DetailsAr.do?file=/eatout/433/433.eat.feat.html Curious Gorge]." ''[[Time Out (company)|Time Out]].'' January 15, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> He eats the hot dogs by splitting the [[frankfurter]] in half, swallowing both parts at once, and then dipping the buns in water, [[Sprite (soft drink)|Sprite]], or [[7-Up]] and stuffing it in his mouth. He calls this the Solomon method.<ref>Poon, William. "[http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC051262/William/hotdogeatingcontest.htm Nathan’s Famous Hotdog Eating Contest]." ''ThinkQuest.'' Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref><br />
<br />
==Records==<br />
===Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest===<br />
From 2001 to 2006, Kobayashi won [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest#Results|Nathan's Annual Hot Dog Eating Contest]] an unprecedented six times in a row. He held the record for hot dogs eaten in the competition from his first appearance until 2007, when current record holder [[Joey Chestnut]] claimed the first of four consecutive victories.<br />
<br />
====Annual results====<br />
[[File:Takeru Kobayashi Hot Dog Champ by David Shankbone.JPG|right|320px|thumb|Kobayashi's win record on Nathans Wall of Fame, 2007]]<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"<br />
|-<br />
! Year !! Place !! HDB's<br />(hot dogs & buns)<br />
|-<br />
|2001 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50*<br />
|-<br />
|2002 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2003 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 44.5<br />
|-<br />
|2004 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2005 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 49<br />
|-<br />
|2006 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.75*<br />
|-<br />
|2007 || 2nd || 63<br />
|-<br />
|2008<sup>1</sup> || 2nd || 59<br />
|-<br />
|2009 || 2nd || 64.5<br />
|-<br />
|2010 || colspan="2" | DNC<br />(contract dispute) <br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<nowiki>*</nowiki> set new world record<br /><br />
Yellow = World record holder<br /><br />
<sup>1</sup> Contest time reduced from 12 to 10 minutes.<br />
<br />
===Glutton Bowl===<br />
Kobayashi ate 31 hot-dogs in the hot dog eating round, putting him into the finals. For the final round of the [[Glutton Bowl]], the contestants had to eat a bowl of brains. Kobayashi won with a finished plate, of 55 brains.<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Hot Dog Champion (31 Hot Dogs)<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Main Event Champion (55 Brains)<br />
<br />
===Krystal Square Off===<br />
Kobayashi was also the reigning champion of the [[Krystal Square Off]] World Hamburger Eating Championship until 2007, when he could not compete due to a recent [[wisdom tooth]] extraction. The 2007 winner was [[Joey Chestnut]], who ate 103 hamburgers. <br />
* 2009: First Place (93 hamburgers)<br />
* 2008: Third place (84 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://krystalsquareoff.com/blog/video-joey-chestnut-wins-world-world-hamburger-eating-championship-810.html | title=Video: Joey Chestnut Wins World Hamburger Eating Championship | work=Krystal Square Off Blog | date=30 September 2008 | accessdate=21 July 2009}}</ref><br />
* 2006: First place (97 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.tfponline.com/absolutenm/templates/breaking.aspx?articleid=6573 | title=Kobayashi Remains Krystal King | work=Chattanooga Times Free Press | author=Mike O'Neal| date=28 October 2006 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2005: First place (67 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=41 | title=2005 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2004: First place (69 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=4 | title=2004 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Independence Day 2010 Arrest==<br />
<br />
Kobayashi was arrested on July 4th, 2010 during the Nathan's International Hot Dog Eating Contest when he exited the police-barricaded spectator pen and entered the stage after the eating ended, and was welcomed by host George Shea.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/|title=Kobayashi arrested after Chestnut’s hot dog win|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NBC Sports|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> Security officers forcibly took him offstage as he hung on to the police barrier and was taken into custody by NYPD officers. He was charged with resisting arrest, trespass and obstructing governmental administration.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/|title=Kobayashi arrested after Chestnut’s hot dog win|date=4 July 2010|publisher=NBC Sports|accessdate=4 July 2010}}</ref> Kobayashi was not participating due to a contract dispute as he refused to sign a contract with Major League Eating that would have prevented him from participating in events not sanctioned by the League.<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru Kobayashi official website]<br />
*[http://www.ifoce.com/eaters.php?action=detail&sn=22 Takeru Kobayashi] at the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]]<br />
*[http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/sioncampus/07/05/nathans.hotdog/index.html Sports Illustrated feature on 2006 contest]<br />
<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Kobayashi, Takeru}}<br />
[[Category:1978 births]]<br />
[[Category:Japanese competitive eaters]]<br />
[[Category:Living people]]<br />
[[Category:People from Nagano Prefecture]]<br />
[[Category:World record holders]]<br />
<br />
[[ca:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[es:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[eo:Kobayashi Takeru]]<br />
[[fr:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[ko:고바야시 다케루]]<br />
[[ja:小林尊]]<br />
[[pl:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[sv:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[zh:小林尊]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Takeru_Kobayashi&diff=371755426Takeru Kobayashi2010-07-04T20:54:47Z<p>Hmm...: /* Independence Day 2010 Arrest */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{About|the Japanese competitive eater|other uses|Kobayashi}}<br />
<br />
{{Infobox person<br />
| name = Takeru Kobayashi<br />
| aka = Robbie<br />
| image = TakeruKobayashi.jpg<br />
| other_names = "The Tsunami"<br />
| birth_date = {{birth date and age|1978|03|15}}<br />
| birth_place = [[Nagano, Japan]] <br />
| height = {{height|ft=5|in=8}}<br />
| weight = {{convert|128|lb|kg|abbr=on}}-{{convert|192|lb|kg|abbr=on}}<br />
| website = [http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru-Kobayashi.com]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{nihongo|'''Takeru Kobayashi'''|小林尊|Kobayashi Takeru}} (born March 15, 1978) is a [[Japanese people|Japanese]] [[competitive eating|competitive eater]] and a member of the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]] (IFOCE). He held the [[world record]] for [[hot dog]] eating for nearly six years, and holds several other eating records, and is ranked second in the world for competitive eating according to the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]].<br />
==Competition and records==<br />
Born in [[Nagano, Nagano|Nagano]], [[Japan]], Kobayashi set his first record at his rookie appearance on July 4, 2001, when he ate 50 hot dogs in 12 minutes at the [[Nathan's]] [[Coney Island]] [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest|hot dog-eating contest]], doubling the previous record of 25. The record was so unexpected that when Kobayashi got to the later numbers, the organizers ran out of signs indicating how many dogs Kobayashi had eaten and had to resort to handwritten signs. Kobayashi would go on to break his own record three times in winning the contest six consecutive times (2001-2006).<br />
<br />
In 2004 and 2007, there was controversy over Kobayashi's performance when fellow competitors accused him of [[regurgitation (digestion)|regurgitating]] during the competition. Although regurgitation was not explicitly prohibited at the time, once food entered the mouth of a contestant it was not permitted to exit. However, judges did not find him guilty of any infractions and he was not penalized in either incident.<br />
<br />
On June 2, 2007, [[Joey Chestnut]] broke Kobayashi's record with 59.5 hot dogs and buns in a qualifying round for the annual Nathan's contest.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/04/hotdog.contest | title=Champ a top dog again with 49 weiners | work=CNN | author=Allan Chernoff; Adam Reiss; Shannon Troetel | date=4 July 2005 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | title=California man tops Kobayashi's hot dog record | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19004354/ | author=The Associated Press | work=MSNBC | date=2 June 2007|accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
In the 2006 Krystal Square Off, Kobayashi's mark of 97 [[hamburger]]s was 30 better than his winning total in 2005 and 28 better than the World Record he set in 2004. <br />
<br />
At a speed-eating contest in [[Hong Kong]] on August 13, 2005, Kobayashi consumed 83 vegetarian [[jiaozi]] dumplings in 8 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | title=Japan speed-eater in dumpling win | work=BBC News | date=14 August 2005 | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4149974.stm | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> The next day, he ate 100 [[baozi|roasted pork buns]] in 12 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | author=Monday Ng | title=Japan speed eater wolfs down 100 pork buns in 12 minutes | work=[[The Standard]] | date=15 August 2005 | url=http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Metro/GH15Ak02.html | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> Kobayashi also won the 2005 Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating, a three-hour [[IFOCE]] elimination tournament on [[ESPN]],<ref>{{cite news | title=Kobayashi Takes Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating | publisher=International Federation of Competitive Eating | date=31 July 2005 | url=http://www.ifoce.com/news.php?action=detail&sn=275 | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> as well as the [[Glutton Bowl]], a two-hour IFOCE eating special that aired on the [[Fox Network]] in 2002.<ref>{{cite web | author=Tama Miyake | title=Feature: Fast food | work=Metropolis Japan | url=http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/431/feature.asp | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | author=Amy Moon | title=Asian Pop: Superchomp Korean-born Sonya Thomas is the No. 1 ranked competitive eater in the USA. | work=[[San Francisco Chronicle]] | date=26 May 2005 | url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2005/05/26/eat.DTL | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> However, on Fox's 2003 show ''Man vs. Beast'', Kobayashi lost in an eating competition against a 1089-pound [[Kodiak bear]], when he ate 31 bunless hot dogs in 2 minutes and 36 seconds to the bear's 50.<ref>{{cite news | author=Larry Getlen| title=The Miracle That Is Kobayashi | url=http://www.blacktable.com/getlen050519.htm | work=The Black Table | date=19 May 2005| accessdate=23 February 2008}}</ref><br />
<br />
On August 5, 2006, Kobayashi set yet another world record at the [[Johnsonville Foods|Johnsonville]] World Bratwurst Eating Championship in [[Sheboygan, Wisconsin]], by downing 58 [[bratwurst]] sausages in 10 minutes, shattering the previous record of 35 set the previous year by [[Sonya Thomas]].<ref>{{cite news | author=The Associated Press | title=Kobayashi eats record 58 brats in Sheboygan | work=USA Today | date=5 August 2006 | url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2006-08-05-brat-record_x.htm | accessdate=1 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
On September 23, 2006, Takeru Kobayashi set the world record at the Phantom Food Festival in [[Boston, Massachusetts]], for eating 41 Summer Shack [[lobster]] rolls in 10 minutes, replacing the previous record of 22 rolls.<br />
<br />
Other world-eating records held by Kobayashi include 17.7 pounds of cow brains in 15 minutes and 20 pounds (9&nbsp;kg) of rice balls in 30 minutes.<br />
<br />
On June 25, 2007, Kobayashi announced on his blog that he seriously injured his jaw during training. He stated that he could only open his jaw about the width of a fingertip. Kobayashi's participation in the July 4, 2007, Nathan's contest continued as scheduled. He was able to eat a personal record 63 hot dogs, though his mark was bettered by Chestnut's 66.<ref>Agence France-Presse. "[http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21963756-5012895,00.html Jaw arthritis for hot-dog champ]." ''The Daily Telegraph''. June 25, 2007. Retrieved June 25, 2007.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2008, Kobayashi once again competed in the Nathan's contest. He and Chestnut reached a tie of 59 hot dogs and buns each, but he came in second to Chestnut in a 5-dog tiebreaker eatoff.<ref>[http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080706/FEAT0108/807060331 journalgazette.net, 3RF contest could be a wiener]</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi went on to defeat Chestnut, May 31, 2009, in a [[Pizza Hut]] [[P'zone|P'Zone]] competition at [[Sony Studios]] in [[Culver City]], [[California]]. The competition aired on [[Spike TV]] on June 21.<ref>Associated Press. "[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pizza_eating_contest]." ''The Associated Press'' . May 31, 2009. Retrieved June 2, 2009.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2009, he competed again in the Nathan's contest. While he reached 64.5 hot dogs and buns, Chestnut beat him by 3.5 with 68 hot dogs and buns.<ref>[http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272626801.shtml nationnaledger.com, Joey Chestnut Beats Takeru Kobayashi]</ref><br />
<br />
Also on July 2009, Kobayashi visited [[Puerto Rico]] in a special appearance for [[Taco Bell]]'s Why Pay More Challenge, eating 64 tacos in 15 minutes for a local charity.<br />
<ref> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJMm3ex9zg, http://www.blog.insula.tv/2009_07_01_archive.html] </ref><br />
<br />
On June 28, 2010, Kobayashi announced he would not compete in the Nathan's Fourth of July Hot Dog Eating Competition reportedly due to a labor impasse with [[Major League Eating]] over the ability to compete in contests not sanctioned by MLE. Kobayashi, however, was in attendance at the contest, watching from the crowd. After the competition had ended, he attempted to go onto the stage in protest and was taken into custody by police.<ref>http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/</ref><ref>[http://calorielab.com/news/2010/07/03/feds-grant-takeru-kobayashi-special-visa-for-extraordinary-ability/ Feds Grant Takeru Kobayashi Special Visa for “Extraordinary Ability”]</ref><br />
<br />
==Training and techniques==<br />
Kobayashi expands his stomach for a competition by eating larger and larger amounts of food, and then exercises to ensure that fat will not impede expansion of his stomach during a competition.<ref>Talmadge, Eric. "[http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040625f2.htm Pigout champion Kobayashi limbers up for hot dog gold]." ''[[Japan Times]].'' June 25, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> <br />
<br />
Kobayashi's official web site gives his height as 173&nbsp;cm (5&nbsp;ft 8 in) and his weight as 75&nbsp;kg (165&nbsp;lb). However he's weighed as much as 87&nbsp;kg (191.8&nbsp;lb) according to a June 29, 2006 blog entry, and as little as 58&nbsp;kg (128&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition in 2008.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/07/03/2008-07-03_contenders_get_ready_for_nathans_hot_dog.html|title=Contenders get ready for Nathan's hot dog eating contest|date=3 July 2008|publisher=Associated Press|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref> As of July 4, 2009, Kobayashi weighed in at 60&nbsp;kg (132&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition on Coney Island.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2009/07/03/2009-07-03_man_bites_dog__with_one_winner.html|title=Arch rivals square off at Nathan's hot dog-eating weigh-in|date=3 July 2009|publisher=New York Daily News|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi is also known for his trademark body wiggle, referred to by some as the "Kobayashi Shake", to force food down his [[esophagus]] and settle more compactly in his stomach.<ref>Farley, David. "[http://www.timeout.com/newyork/DetailsAr.do?file=/eatout/433/433.eat.feat.html Curious Gorge]." ''[[Time Out (company)|Time Out]].'' January 15, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> He eats the hot dogs by splitting the [[frankfurter]] in half, swallowing both parts at once, and then dipping the buns in water, [[Sprite (soft drink)|Sprite]], or [[7-Up]] and stuffing it in his mouth. He calls this the Solomon method.<ref>Poon, William. "[http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC051262/William/hotdogeatingcontest.htm Nathan’s Famous Hotdog Eating Contest]." ''ThinkQuest.'' Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref><br />
<br />
==Records==<br />
===Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest===<br />
From 2001 to 2006, Kobayashi won [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest#Results|Nathan's Annual Hot Dog Eating Contest]] an unprecedented six times in a row. He held the record for hot dogs eaten in the competition from his first appearance until 2007, when current record holder [[Joey Chestnut]] claimed the first of four consecutive victories.<br />
<br />
====Annual results====<br />
[[File:Takeru Kobayashi Hot Dog Champ by David Shankbone.JPG|right|320px|thumb|Kobayashi's win record on Nathans Wall of Fame, 2007]]<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"<br />
|-<br />
! Year !! Place !! HDB's<br />(hot dogs & buns)<br />
|-<br />
|2001 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50*<br />
|-<br />
|2002 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2003 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 44.5<br />
|-<br />
|2004 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2005 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 49<br />
|-<br />
|2006 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.75*<br />
|-<br />
|2007 || 2nd || 63<br />
|-<br />
|2008<sup>1</sup> || 2nd || 59<br />
|-<br />
|2009 || 2nd || 64.5<br />
|-<br />
|2010 || colspan="2" | DNC<br />(contract dispute) <br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<nowiki>*</nowiki> set new world record<br /><br />
Yellow = World record holder<br /><br />
<sup>1</sup> Contest time reduced from 12 to 10 minutes.<br />
<br />
===Glutton Bowl===<br />
Kobayashi ate 31 hot-dogs in the hot dog eating round, putting him into the finals. For the final round of the [[Glutton Bowl]], the contestants had to eat a bowl of brains. Kobayashi won with a finished plate, of 55 brains.<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Hot Dog Champion (31 Hot Dogs)<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Main Event Champion (55 Brains)<br />
<br />
===Krystal Square Off===<br />
Kobayashi was also the reigning champion of the [[Krystal Square Off]] World Hamburger Eating Championship until 2007, when he could not compete due to a recent [[wisdom tooth]] extraction. The 2007 winner was [[Joey Chestnut]], who ate 103 hamburgers. <br />
* 2009: First Place (93 hamburgers)<br />
* 2008: Third place (84 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://krystalsquareoff.com/blog/video-joey-chestnut-wins-world-world-hamburger-eating-championship-810.html | title=Video: Joey Chestnut Wins World Hamburger Eating Championship | work=Krystal Square Off Blog | date=30 September 2008 | accessdate=21 July 2009}}</ref><br />
* 2006: First place (97 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.tfponline.com/absolutenm/templates/breaking.aspx?articleid=6573 | title=Kobayashi Remains Krystal King | work=Chattanooga Times Free Press | author=Mike O'Neal| date=28 October 2006 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2005: First place (67 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=41 | title=2005 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2004: First place (69 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=4 | title=2004 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Independence Day 2010 Arrest==<br />
<br />
Kobayashi was arrested on July 4th, 2010 during the Nathan's International Hot Dog Eating Contest by NYPD when he exited the police-barricaded spectator pen and entered the stage after the eating ended, and was welcomed by host George Shea. Security officers took forcibly took him offstage as he hung on to the police barrier, and was taken into custody by NYPD officers. He was charged with resisting arrest, trespass and obstructing governmental administration. Kobayashi was not participating due to a contract dispute as he refused to sign a contract with Major League Eating that would have prevented him from participating in events not sanctioned by the League.<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru Kobayashi official website]<br />
*[http://www.ifoce.com/eaters.php?action=detail&sn=22 Takeru Kobayashi] at the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]]<br />
*[http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/sioncampus/07/05/nathans.hotdog/index.html Sports Illustrated feature on 2006 contest]<br />
<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Kobayashi, Takeru}}<br />
[[Category:1978 births]]<br />
[[Category:Japanese competitive eaters]]<br />
[[Category:Living people]]<br />
[[Category:People from Nagano Prefecture]]<br />
[[Category:World record holders]]<br />
<br />
[[ca:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[es:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[eo:Kobayashi Takeru]]<br />
[[fr:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[ko:고바야시 다케루]]<br />
[[ja:小林尊]]<br />
[[pl:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[sv:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[zh:小林尊]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Takeru_Kobayashi&diff=371754640Takeru Kobayashi2010-07-04T20:48:15Z<p>Hmm...: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{About|the Japanese competitive eater|other uses|Kobayashi}}<br />
<br />
{{Infobox person<br />
| name = Takeru Kobayashi<br />
| aka = Robbie<br />
| image = TakeruKobayashi.jpg<br />
| other_names = "The Tsunami"<br />
| birth_date = {{birth date and age|1978|03|15}}<br />
| birth_place = [[Nagano, Japan]] <br />
| height = {{height|ft=5|in=8}}<br />
| weight = {{convert|128|lb|kg|abbr=on}}-{{convert|192|lb|kg|abbr=on}}<br />
| website = [http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru-Kobayashi.com]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{nihongo|'''Takeru Kobayashi'''|小林尊|Kobayashi Takeru}} (born March 15, 1978) is a [[Japanese people|Japanese]] [[competitive eating|competitive eater]] and a member of the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]] (IFOCE). He held the [[world record]] for [[hot dog]] eating for nearly six years, and holds several other eating records, and is ranked second in the world for competitive eating according to the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]].<br />
==Competition and records==<br />
Born in [[Nagano, Nagano|Nagano]], [[Japan]], Kobayashi set his first record at his rookie appearance on July 4, 2001, when he ate 50 hot dogs in 12 minutes at the [[Nathan's]] [[Coney Island]] [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest|hot dog-eating contest]], doubling the previous record of 25. The record was so unexpected that when Kobayashi got to the later numbers, the organizers ran out of signs indicating how many dogs Kobayashi had eaten and had to resort to handwritten signs. Kobayashi would go on to break his own record three times in winning the contest six consecutive times (2001-2006).<br />
<br />
In 2004 and 2007, there was controversy over Kobayashi's performance when fellow competitors accused him of [[regurgitation (digestion)|regurgitating]] during the competition. Although regurgitation was not explicitly prohibited at the time, once food entered the mouth of a contestant it was not permitted to exit. However, judges did not find him guilty of any infractions and he was not penalized in either incident.<br />
<br />
On June 2, 2007, [[Joey Chestnut]] broke Kobayashi's record with 59.5 hot dogs and buns in a qualifying round for the annual Nathan's contest.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/04/hotdog.contest | title=Champ a top dog again with 49 weiners | work=CNN | author=Allan Chernoff; Adam Reiss; Shannon Troetel | date=4 July 2005 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | title=California man tops Kobayashi's hot dog record | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19004354/ | author=The Associated Press | work=MSNBC | date=2 June 2007|accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
In the 2006 Krystal Square Off, Kobayashi's mark of 97 [[hamburger]]s was 30 better than his winning total in 2005 and 28 better than the World Record he set in 2004. <br />
<br />
At a speed-eating contest in [[Hong Kong]] on August 13, 2005, Kobayashi consumed 83 vegetarian [[jiaozi]] dumplings in 8 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | title=Japan speed-eater in dumpling win | work=BBC News | date=14 August 2005 | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4149974.stm | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> The next day, he ate 100 [[baozi|roasted pork buns]] in 12 minutes.<ref>{{cite news | author=Monday Ng | title=Japan speed eater wolfs down 100 pork buns in 12 minutes | work=[[The Standard]] | date=15 August 2005 | url=http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Metro/GH15Ak02.html | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> Kobayashi also won the 2005 Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating, a three-hour [[IFOCE]] elimination tournament on [[ESPN]],<ref>{{cite news | title=Kobayashi Takes Alka-Seltzer US Open of Competitive Eating | publisher=International Federation of Competitive Eating | date=31 July 2005 | url=http://www.ifoce.com/news.php?action=detail&sn=275 | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> as well as the [[Glutton Bowl]], a two-hour IFOCE eating special that aired on the [[Fox Network]] in 2002.<ref>{{cite web | author=Tama Miyake | title=Feature: Fast food | work=Metropolis Japan | url=http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/431/feature.asp | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | author=Amy Moon | title=Asian Pop: Superchomp Korean-born Sonya Thomas is the No. 1 ranked competitive eater in the USA. | work=[[San Francisco Chronicle]] | date=26 May 2005 | url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2005/05/26/eat.DTL | accessdate=2 October 2006}}</ref> However, on Fox's 2003 show ''Man vs. Beast'', Kobayashi lost in an eating competition against a 1089-pound [[Kodiak bear]], when he ate 31 bunless hot dogs in 2 minutes and 36 seconds to the bear's 50.<ref>{{cite news | author=Larry Getlen| title=The Miracle That Is Kobayashi | url=http://www.blacktable.com/getlen050519.htm | work=The Black Table | date=19 May 2005| accessdate=23 February 2008}}</ref><br />
<br />
On August 5, 2006, Kobayashi set yet another world record at the [[Johnsonville Foods|Johnsonville]] World Bratwurst Eating Championship in [[Sheboygan, Wisconsin]], by downing 58 [[bratwurst]] sausages in 10 minutes, shattering the previous record of 35 set the previous year by [[Sonya Thomas]].<ref>{{cite news | author=The Associated Press | title=Kobayashi eats record 58 brats in Sheboygan | work=USA Today | date=5 August 2006 | url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2006-08-05-brat-record_x.htm | accessdate=1 July 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
On September 23, 2006, Takeru Kobayashi set the world record at the Phantom Food Festival in [[Boston, Massachusetts]], for eating 41 Summer Shack [[lobster]] rolls in 10 minutes, replacing the previous record of 22 rolls.<br />
<br />
Other world-eating records held by Kobayashi include 17.7 pounds of cow brains in 15 minutes and 20 pounds (9&nbsp;kg) of rice balls in 30 minutes.<br />
<br />
On June 25, 2007, Kobayashi announced on his blog that he seriously injured his jaw during training. He stated that he could only open his jaw about the width of a fingertip. Kobayashi's participation in the July 4, 2007, Nathan's contest continued as scheduled. He was able to eat a personal record 63 hot dogs, though his mark was bettered by Chestnut's 66.<ref>Agence France-Presse. "[http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21963756-5012895,00.html Jaw arthritis for hot-dog champ]." ''The Daily Telegraph''. June 25, 2007. Retrieved June 25, 2007.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2008, Kobayashi once again competed in the Nathan's contest. He and Chestnut reached a tie of 59 hot dogs and buns each, but he came in second to Chestnut in a 5-dog tiebreaker eatoff.<ref>[http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080706/FEAT0108/807060331 journalgazette.net, 3RF contest could be a wiener]</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi went on to defeat Chestnut, May 31, 2009, in a [[Pizza Hut]] [[P'zone|P'Zone]] competition at [[Sony Studios]] in [[Culver City]], [[California]]. The competition aired on [[Spike TV]] on June 21.<ref>Associated Press. "[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pizza_eating_contest]." ''The Associated Press'' . May 31, 2009. Retrieved June 2, 2009.</ref><br />
<br />
On July 4, 2009, he competed again in the Nathan's contest. While he reached 64.5 hot dogs and buns, Chestnut beat him by 3.5 with 68 hot dogs and buns.<ref>[http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272626801.shtml nationnaledger.com, Joey Chestnut Beats Takeru Kobayashi]</ref><br />
<br />
Also on July 2009, Kobayashi visited [[Puerto Rico]] in a special appearance for [[Taco Bell]]'s Why Pay More Challenge, eating 64 tacos in 15 minutes for a local charity.<br />
<ref> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJMm3ex9zg, http://www.blog.insula.tv/2009_07_01_archive.html] </ref><br />
<br />
On June 28, 2010, Kobayashi announced he would not compete in the Nathan's Fourth of July Hot Dog Eating Competition reportedly due to a labor impasse with [[Major League Eating]] over the ability to compete in contests not sanctioned by MLE. Kobayashi, however, was in attendance at the contest, watching from the crowd. After the competition had ended, he attempted to go onto the stage in protest and was taken into custody by police.<ref>http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38086913/ns/sports-othersports/</ref><ref>[http://calorielab.com/news/2010/07/03/feds-grant-takeru-kobayashi-special-visa-for-extraordinary-ability/ Feds Grant Takeru Kobayashi Special Visa for “Extraordinary Ability”]</ref><br />
<br />
==Training and techniques==<br />
Kobayashi expands his stomach for a competition by eating larger and larger amounts of food, and then exercises to ensure that fat will not impede expansion of his stomach during a competition.<ref>Talmadge, Eric. "[http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040625f2.htm Pigout champion Kobayashi limbers up for hot dog gold]." ''[[Japan Times]].'' June 25, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> <br />
<br />
Kobayashi's official web site gives his height as 173&nbsp;cm (5&nbsp;ft 8 in) and his weight as 75&nbsp;kg (165&nbsp;lb). However he's weighed as much as 87&nbsp;kg (191.8&nbsp;lb) according to a June 29, 2006 blog entry, and as little as 58&nbsp;kg (128&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition in 2008.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/07/03/2008-07-03_contenders_get_ready_for_nathans_hot_dog.html|title=Contenders get ready for Nathan's hot dog eating contest|date=3 July 2008|publisher=Associated Press|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref> As of July 4, 2009, Kobayashi weighed in at 60&nbsp;kg (132&nbsp;lb) for the annual Fourth of July hot dog eating competition on Coney Island.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2009/07/03/2009-07-03_man_bites_dog__with_one_winner.html|title=Arch rivals square off at Nathan's hot dog-eating weigh-in|date=3 July 2009|publisher=New York Daily News|accessdate=4 July 2009}}</ref><br />
<br />
Kobayashi is also known for his trademark body wiggle, referred to by some as the "Kobayashi Shake", to force food down his [[esophagus]] and settle more compactly in his stomach.<ref>Farley, David. "[http://www.timeout.com/newyork/DetailsAr.do?file=/eatout/433/433.eat.feat.html Curious Gorge]." ''[[Time Out (company)|Time Out]].'' January 15, 2004. Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref> He eats the hot dogs by splitting the [[frankfurter]] in half, swallowing both parts at once, and then dipping the buns in water, [[Sprite (soft drink)|Sprite]], or [[7-Up]] and stuffing it in his mouth. He calls this the Solomon method.<ref>Poon, William. "[http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC051262/William/hotdogeatingcontest.htm Nathan’s Famous Hotdog Eating Contest]." ''ThinkQuest.'' Retrieved on June 25, 2006.</ref><br />
<br />
==Records==<br />
===Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest===<br />
From 2001 to 2006, Kobayashi won [[Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest#Results|Nathan's Annual Hot Dog Eating Contest]] an unprecedented six times in a row. He held the record for hot dogs eaten in the competition from his first appearance until 2007, when current record holder [[Joey Chestnut]] claimed the first of four consecutive victories.<br />
<br />
====Annual results====<br />
[[File:Takeru Kobayashi Hot Dog Champ by David Shankbone.JPG|right|320px|thumb|Kobayashi's win record on Nathans Wall of Fame, 2007]]<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"<br />
|-<br />
! Year !! Place !! HDB's<br />(hot dogs & buns)<br />
|-<br />
|2001 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50*<br />
|-<br />
|2002 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 50.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2003 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 44.5<br />
|-<br />
|2004 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.5*<br />
|-<br />
|2005 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 49<br />
|-<br />
|2006 || 1st || style="background:yellow;" | 53.75*<br />
|-<br />
|2007 || 2nd || 63<br />
|-<br />
|2008<sup>1</sup> || 2nd || 59<br />
|-<br />
|2009 || 2nd || 64.5<br />
|-<br />
|2010 || colspan="2" | DNC<br />(contract dispute) <br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<nowiki>*</nowiki> set new world record<br /><br />
Yellow = World record holder<br /><br />
<sup>1</sup> Contest time reduced from 12 to 10 minutes.<br />
<br />
===Glutton Bowl===<br />
Kobayashi ate 31 hot-dogs in the hot dog eating round, putting him into the finals. For the final round of the [[Glutton Bowl]], the contestants had to eat a bowl of brains. Kobayashi won with a finished plate, of 55 brains.<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Hot Dog Champion (31 Hot Dogs)<br />
*2001: [[Glutton Bowl]] Main Event Champion (55 Brains)<br />
<br />
===Krystal Square Off===<br />
Kobayashi was also the reigning champion of the [[Krystal Square Off]] World Hamburger Eating Championship until 2007, when he could not compete due to a recent [[wisdom tooth]] extraction. The 2007 winner was [[Joey Chestnut]], who ate 103 hamburgers. <br />
* 2009: First Place (93 hamburgers)<br />
* 2008: Third place (84 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://krystalsquareoff.com/blog/video-joey-chestnut-wins-world-world-hamburger-eating-championship-810.html | title=Video: Joey Chestnut Wins World Hamburger Eating Championship | work=Krystal Square Off Blog | date=30 September 2008 | accessdate=21 July 2009}}</ref><br />
* 2006: First place (97 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.tfponline.com/absolutenm/templates/breaking.aspx?articleid=6573 | title=Kobayashi Remains Krystal King | work=Chattanooga Times Free Press | author=Mike O'Neal| date=28 October 2006 | accessdate=6 July 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2005: First place (67 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=41 | title=2005 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
* 2004: First place (69 hamburgers)<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.ifoce.com/contests.php?action=detail&eventID=4 | title=2004 Krystal Square Off World Hamburger-Eating Championship results | publisher=IFOCE | accessdate=29 June 2007}}</ref><br />
<br />
==Independence Day 2010 Arrest==<br />
<br />
Kobayashi was arrested on July 4th, 2010 during the Nathan's International Hot Dog Eating Contest by NYPD when exited the police-barricaded spectator pen and entered the stage after the eating ended welcomed by host George Shea. <br />
<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://takeru-kobayashi.com/ Takeru Kobayashi official website]<br />
*[http://www.ifoce.com/eaters.php?action=detail&sn=22 Takeru Kobayashi] at the [[International Federation of Competitive Eating]]<br />
*[http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/sioncampus/07/05/nathans.hotdog/index.html Sports Illustrated feature on 2006 contest]<br />
<br />
{{DEFAULTSORT:Kobayashi, Takeru}}<br />
[[Category:1978 births]]<br />
[[Category:Japanese competitive eaters]]<br />
[[Category:Living people]]<br />
[[Category:People from Nagano Prefecture]]<br />
[[Category:World record holders]]<br />
<br />
[[ca:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[es:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[eo:Kobayashi Takeru]]<br />
[[fr:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[ko:고바야시 다케루]]<br />
[[ja:小林尊]]<br />
[[pl:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[sv:Takeru Kobayashi]]<br />
[[zh:小林尊]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reddit&diff=371089912Reddit2010-06-30T21:22:06Z<p>Hmm...: /* See also */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{pp-semi-vandalism|small=yes}}<br />
{{Lowercase}}<br />
{{Infobox Website<br />
| name = reddit<br />
| logo = [[Image:Reddit logo.svg|reddit logo]]<br />
| screenshot = {{hidden|Screenshot|[[Image:Reddit2008.png|200px|reddit front page on June 11, 2008]]}}<br />
| caption = reddit front page on June 11, 2008<br />
| url = [http://www.reddit.com/ www.reddit.com]<br />
| commercial = Yes<br />
| type = News aggregation site<br />
| registration = Free<br />
| owner = [[Condé Nast Publications]]<br />
| author = Steve Huffman and Alexis Ohanian<br />
| launch date = 2005<br />
| revenue = <br />
}}<br />
'''reddit''' (pronounced /ˈrɛdɪt/, i.e. "read it", as in "have you read it?") is a [[social news]] website, owned by [[Condé Nast Publications|Conde Nast Digital]], a subsidiary of [[Advance_Publications|Advance Magazine Publishers Inc]]. Users can browse and have the option to submit links to content on the Internet or submit "self" posts that contain original, user-submitted text. Other users may then vote the posted links "up" or "down" with the most successful links gaining prominence by reaching the front page. In addition, users can comment on the posted links and reply to other commentators consequently forming a vibrant community. Reddit is unique in that users may create their own topical sections for which to submit their links and to comment.<br />
<br />
== Overview ==<br />
[[File:Reddit Mr. Splashy Pants.png|thumb|left|[[Mister Splashy Pants]] logo used on November 27, 2007]]<br />
The site has discussion areas in which users may discuss the posted links and vote for or against others' comments. When there are enough votes against a given comment, it will not be displayed by default, although a reader can display it through a link or preference. Users who submit articles, which other users like and subsequently "vote up," are then more likely to be displayed.<br />
<br />
Reddit includes topical sections called "reddits" (colloquially called "subreddits"), which focus on specific topics, such as pics, funny, politics, worldnews, atheism, programming, travel, food, science or the all encompassing reddit. Similar to various sections in a newspaper, each section focuses on user-generated content that is relevant to each reddit. There are hundreds of reddits and users are encouraged to create their own.<ref>[http://reddit.com/reddits reddits<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref> Submissions that are voted up receive prominence by being displayed on the front page of the specific reddit. Those submissions receiving a high rate of votes are then displayed on the main front page of reddit.com. Users may also subscribe and unsubscribe to various reddit sections allowing them to choose which links from which reddit is displayed on their personal front page. <br />
<br />
Some prominent reddits are IAmA, where users in interesting situations and jobs can answer other users' questions; and AskReddit, where any user can ask a question, and answer questions posed by others.<br />
<br />
The number of subreddits is quite large and growing. Several subreddit search engines have appeared. <br />
<br />
* [http://subredditfinder.com/ SubReddit Finder ] <br />
* [http://s272568090.onlinehome.us/reddit/karmanaut-redditmap.html Reddit User Karmanaut's bubble diagram]<br />
* http://metareddit.com/ Subreddit search and exploration tool<br />
* [http://hdevalence.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/routput2.gif Diagram of subreddits]<br />
<br />
Reddit.com employs a "karma" reward system for users who make submissions and comment on stories. Users gains one point of link karma when another user votes up their submission and loses a point when a user votes down their submission. Individual comments may also be voted up or down by other users and result in a user's comment karma. Users stop losing karma after their submission reaches 0. This is not the case for comments. <br />
<br />
The site also fosters discussion and a sense of community by notifying users of replies to with a "orangered" envelope. The site administrators are also active users replying directly to users, submitting their own submissions and commenting on stories. They also host video interviews with questions submitted by the community. The community have also have been known to socialize at local parks and bars around the world. <br />
<br />
The Reddit logo changes for various holidays and often for no reason, paying homage to ''[[Star Wars]]'', classic video games, and [[geek]] culture in general. It often changes in response to major discussion subjects within the site or major news stories.<br />
<br />
== History ==<br />
<!-->[[Image:Steve Huffman.jpg|thumb|right|Steve Huffman]]<!--><br />
Reddit was founded by Steve Huffman and Alexis Ohanian in 2005, both 22-year-old graduates of the [[University of Virginia]].<ref>{{cite news | last = Adams | first = Richard | title = reddit.com | publisher = [[The Guardian]] | date = 2005-12-08 | url = http://technology.guardian.co.uk/innovations/story/0,,1660870,00.html | accessdate = 2006-12-23 }}</ref> It received its initial funding from [[Y Combinator]]. The team expanded to include Christopher Slowe and [[Aaron Swartz]] in 2005. Aaron Swartz joined in late January 2006 as part of the company's merger with Swartz's Infogami.<ref>{{cite web | url= http://infogami.com/blog/introduction|title= Introducing Infogami<br />
|last=Swartz | first=Aaron | authorlink=Aaron Swartz| publisher=Infogami | date=February 27, 2006 | accessdate= 2007-01-06}}</ref> The combined company was known as "not a bug." [[Condé Nast Publications]], owner of ''[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]]'', acquired "not a bug" on October 31, 2006.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://www.techcrunch.com/2006/10/31/breaking-news-conde-nastwired-acquires-reddit/ | title = Breaking news: Condé Nast/Wired Acquires reddit | publisher = [[TechCrunch]]|date=October 31, 2006|accessdate= 2007-01-06 | last=Arrington | first=Michael | authorlink=Michael Arrington}}</ref><br />
<br />
On June 18, 2008, Reddit became an [[open source]] project.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2008/06/reddit-goes-open-source.html Open source announcement on the Reddit blog]</ref> With the exception of the anti-spam/cheating portions, all of the code and libraries written for Reddit became freely available on another website dubbed "Fixxit."<ref>http://code.reddit.com/</ref><br />
<br />
Reddit was named by Ohanian while browsing the [[University of Virginia]]'s Alderman Library.<ref>[http://reddit.blogspot.com/2008/02/reddit-nostalgia-whence-came-name.html "reddit nostalgia: whence came the name?," on Alexis Ohanian's blog]</ref><br />
<br />
In January 2010, Reddit users raised over $134,000 for the victims of the [[2010 Haiti earthquake]].<ref>http://dri.convio.net/site/TR?pg=fund&fr_id=1030&pxfid=1511</ref><br />
<br />
== Technology ==<br />
Reddit was originally written in [[Common Lisp]] but was rewritten in [[Python (programming language)|Python]] in 2005.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2005/12/on-lisp.html "On lisp" blog post by Reddit founder "spez," detailing the reasons for switching to python from lisp]</ref> The reasons given for the switch were faster performance, wider access to [[Library (computing)|code libraries]], and greater development flexibility. The Python web framework that former reddit employee [[Aaron Swartz]] developed to run the site, ''web.py'', is now available as an open-source project.<ref>[http://webpy.org/ Official web.py site]</ref><br />
<br />
Reddit currently uses [[Pylons]] as its web framework.<ref>[http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/pylonscommunity/Sites+Using+Pylons Sites Using Pylons] - Pylons Community&nbsp;— PythonWeb</ref> The site was hosted on several [[Linux]] [[web server|servers]] running [[lighttpd]], HaProxy, and paster;<ref>[http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.reddit.com Netcraft report on reddit.com]</ref> however, as of November of 2009, Reddit has decommissioned their physical servers and migrated to [[Amazon Web Services]].<ref>http://blog.reddit.com/2009/11/moving-to-cloud.html Moving to the cloud on blog.reddit.com</ref><br />
In early 2009, Reddit started using [[jQuery]].<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2009/01/reddit-now-powered-by-jquery.html what's new on reddit: reddit now powered by jQuery] - Posted by Chris Slowe (keysersosa) (Friday, January 30, 2009) - blog.reddit</ref><br />
<br />
On February 18, 2009, Reddit released an [[iPhone]] Application for $1.99, which allows users to more easily navigate the site while using the iPhone. There were also several other reddit iPhone Applications made available, prior to the official application's release date. The first application was named "Satellite", which was released in November of 2008. It originally cost $4.99 but its price was later reduced to just $.99 after the release of the official Reddit application.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2009/01/i-read-it-on-ireddit-official-reddit.html Shortly after that was released, the guys at 3Cube Technologies released Satellite at <s>$4.99</s> now just $.99.] - Posted by alexis kn0thing at 16:43 on (February 14th, 2009)</ref> The second application, released in December of 2008 was called "Open Source Reddit", differing from Satellite by being free of charge. In June, 2010 the Reddit staff revamped the mobile site located at i.reddit.com. The new site features rewritten [[CSS]], a new color scheme, and a multitude of improvements.<ref>http://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/cd9ju/weve_revamped_reddits_mobile_site_let_us_know/</ref><br />
<br />
==Notable Community contributions==<br />
* Reddit user Alan Schaaf created the popular free image hosting site [[Imgur]]<br />
* Graphic artist Mike Mitchell created the "I'm with COCO" poster, which has subsequently been adopted by Conan O'Brian for his The Legally Prohibited From Being Funny On Television Tour.<br />
* The saving of various abused and stray animals<br />
<br />
== See also ==<br />
* [http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/8xahm/oh_digg_you_tried_pic/c0aqvyj Reddit User MercurialMadnessMan's Unofficial Welcome Thread]<br />
* [[Diigo]]<br />
* [[Delicious (website)]]<br />
* [[Digg]]<br />
* [[Fark]]<br />
* [[Imgur]]<br />
* [[StumbleUpon]]<br />
* [[Slashdot]]<br />
* [[Social bookmarking]]<br />
* [[Web 2.0]]<br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
{{reflist}}<br />
<br />
== External links ==<br />
{{wikinews|Helen Thomas probes White House on torture; online community sends flowers}}<br />
*[http://reddit.com/ reddit]<br />
*[http://code.reddit.com/ Fixxit (reddit's code repository)]<br />
*[http://redditall.com/ think you've reddit all?] - Alexis' [[blog]] (the logo artist).<br />
*[http://redditjobs.com/ reddit's job board]<br />
<br />
{{Advance Publications}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:News websites]]<br />
[[Category:Social bookmarking]]<br />
[[Category:Free software programmed in Python]]<br />
[[Category:News aggregators]]<br />
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[[ar:ريديت]]<br />
[[es:Reddit]]<br />
[[fr:Reddit]]<br />
[[it:Reddit]]<br />
[[ja:Reddit]]<br />
[[no:Reddit]]<br />
[[pl:Reddit]]<br />
[[pt:Reddit]]<br />
[[ru:Reddit]]<br />
[[simple:Reddit]]<br />
[[fi:Reddit]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reddit&diff=371088168Reddit2010-06-30T21:12:49Z<p>Hmm...: /* Overview */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{pp-semi-vandalism|small=yes}}<br />
{{Lowercase}}<br />
{{Infobox Website<br />
| name = reddit<br />
| logo = [[Image:Reddit logo.svg|reddit logo]]<br />
| screenshot = {{hidden|Screenshot|[[Image:Reddit2008.png|200px|reddit front page on June 11, 2008]]}}<br />
| caption = reddit front page on June 11, 2008<br />
| url = [http://www.reddit.com/ www.reddit.com]<br />
| commercial = Yes<br />
| type = News aggregation site<br />
| registration = Free<br />
| owner = [[Condé Nast Publications]]<br />
| author = Steve Huffman and Alexis Ohanian<br />
| launch date = 2005<br />
| revenue = <br />
}}<br />
'''reddit''' (pronounced /ˈrɛdɪt/, i.e. "read it", as in "have you read it?") is a [[social news]] website, owned by [[Condé Nast Publications|Conde Nast Digital]], a subsidiary of [[Advance_Publications|Advance Magazine Publishers Inc]]. Users can browse and have the option to submit links to content on the Internet or submit "self" posts that contain original, user-submitted text. Other users may then vote the posted links "up" or "down" with the most successful links gaining prominence by reaching the front page. In addition, users can comment on the posted links and reply to other commentators consequently forming a vibrant community. Reddit is unique in that users may create their own topical sections for which to submit their links and to comment.<br />
<br />
== Overview ==<br />
[[File:Reddit Mr. Splashy Pants.png|thumb|left|[[Mister Splashy Pants]] logo used on November 27, 2007]]<br />
The site has discussion areas in which users may discuss the posted links and vote for or against others' comments. When there are enough votes against a given comment, it will not be displayed by default, although a reader can display it through a link or preference. Users who submit articles, which other users like and subsequently "vote up," are then more likely to be displayed.<br />
<br />
Reddit includes topical sections called "reddits" (colloquially called "subreddits"), which focus on specific topics, such as pics, funny, politics, worldnews, atheism, programming, travel, food, science or the all encompassing reddit. Similar to various sections in a newspaper, each section focuses on user-generated content that is relevant to each reddit. There are hundreds of reddits and users are encouraged to create their own.<ref>[http://reddit.com/reddits reddits<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref> Submissions that are voted up receive prominence by being displayed on the front page of the specific reddit. Those submissions receiving a high rate of votes are then displayed on the main front page of reddit.com. Users may also subscribe and unsubscribe to various reddit sections allowing them to choose which links from which reddit is displayed on their personal front page. <br />
<br />
Some prominent reddits are IAmA, where users in interesting situations and jobs can answer other users' questions; and AskReddit, where any user can ask a question, and answer questions posed by others.<br />
<br />
The number of subreddits is quite large and growing. Several subreddit search engines have appeared. <br />
<br />
* [http://subredditfinder.com/ SubReddit Finder ] <br />
* [http://s272568090.onlinehome.us/reddit/karmanaut-redditmap.html Reddit User Karmanaut's bubble diagram]<br />
* http://metareddit.com/ Subreddit search and exploration tool<br />
* [http://hdevalence.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/routput2.gif Diagram of subreddits]<br />
<br />
Reddit.com employs a "karma" reward system for users who make submissions and comment on stories. Users gains one point of link karma when another user votes up their submission and loses a point when a user votes down their submission. Individual comments may also be voted up or down by other users and result in a user's comment karma. Users stop losing karma after their submission reaches 0. This is not the case for comments. <br />
<br />
The site also fosters discussion and a sense of community by notifying users of replies to with a "orangered" envelope. The site administrators are also active users replying directly to users, submitting their own submissions and commenting on stories. They also host video interviews with questions submitted by the community. The community have also have been known to socialize at local parks and bars around the world. <br />
<br />
The Reddit logo changes for various holidays and often for no reason, paying homage to ''[[Star Wars]]'', classic video games, and [[geek]] culture in general. It often changes in response to major discussion subjects within the site or major news stories.<br />
<br />
== History ==<br />
<!-->[[Image:Steve Huffman.jpg|thumb|right|Steve Huffman]]<!--><br />
Reddit was founded by Steve Huffman and Alexis Ohanian in 2005, both 22-year-old graduates of the [[University of Virginia]].<ref>{{cite news | last = Adams | first = Richard | title = reddit.com | publisher = [[The Guardian]] | date = 2005-12-08 | url = http://technology.guardian.co.uk/innovations/story/0,,1660870,00.html | accessdate = 2006-12-23 }}</ref> It received its initial funding from [[Y Combinator]]. The team expanded to include Christopher Slowe and [[Aaron Swartz]] in 2005. Aaron Swartz joined in late January 2006 as part of the company's merger with Swartz's Infogami.<ref>{{cite web | url= http://infogami.com/blog/introduction|title= Introducing Infogami<br />
|last=Swartz | first=Aaron | authorlink=Aaron Swartz| publisher=Infogami | date=February 27, 2006 | accessdate= 2007-01-06}}</ref> The combined company was known as "not a bug." [[Condé Nast Publications]], owner of ''[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]]'', acquired "not a bug" on October 31, 2006.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://www.techcrunch.com/2006/10/31/breaking-news-conde-nastwired-acquires-reddit/ | title = Breaking news: Condé Nast/Wired Acquires reddit | publisher = [[TechCrunch]]|date=October 31, 2006|accessdate= 2007-01-06 | last=Arrington | first=Michael | authorlink=Michael Arrington}}</ref><br />
<br />
On June 18, 2008, Reddit became an [[open source]] project.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2008/06/reddit-goes-open-source.html Open source announcement on the Reddit blog]</ref> With the exception of the anti-spam/cheating portions, all of the code and libraries written for Reddit became freely available on another website dubbed "Fixxit."<ref>http://code.reddit.com/</ref><br />
<br />
Reddit was named by Ohanian while browsing the [[University of Virginia]]'s Alderman Library.<ref>[http://reddit.blogspot.com/2008/02/reddit-nostalgia-whence-came-name.html "reddit nostalgia: whence came the name?," on Alexis Ohanian's blog]</ref><br />
<br />
In January 2010, Reddit users raised over $134,000 for the victims of the [[2010 Haiti earthquake]].<ref>http://dri.convio.net/site/TR?pg=fund&fr_id=1030&pxfid=1511</ref><br />
<br />
== Technology ==<br />
Reddit was originally written in [[Common Lisp]] but was rewritten in [[Python (programming language)|Python]] in 2005.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2005/12/on-lisp.html "On lisp" blog post by Reddit founder "spez," detailing the reasons for switching to python from lisp]</ref> The reasons given for the switch were faster performance, wider access to [[Library (computing)|code libraries]], and greater development flexibility. The Python web framework that former reddit employee [[Aaron Swartz]] developed to run the site, ''web.py'', is now available as an open-source project.<ref>[http://webpy.org/ Official web.py site]</ref><br />
<br />
Reddit currently uses [[Pylons]] as its web framework.<ref>[http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/pylonscommunity/Sites+Using+Pylons Sites Using Pylons] - Pylons Community&nbsp;— PythonWeb</ref> The site was hosted on several [[Linux]] [[web server|servers]] running [[lighttpd]], HaProxy, and paster;<ref>[http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.reddit.com Netcraft report on reddit.com]</ref> however, as of November of 2009, Reddit has decommissioned their physical servers and migrated to [[Amazon Web Services]].<ref>http://blog.reddit.com/2009/11/moving-to-cloud.html Moving to the cloud on blog.reddit.com</ref><br />
In early 2009, Reddit started using [[jQuery]].<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2009/01/reddit-now-powered-by-jquery.html what's new on reddit: reddit now powered by jQuery] - Posted by Chris Slowe (keysersosa) (Friday, January 30, 2009) - blog.reddit</ref><br />
<br />
On February 18, 2009, Reddit released an [[iPhone]] Application for $1.99, which allows users to more easily navigate the site while using the iPhone. There were also several other reddit iPhone Applications made available, prior to the official application's release date. The first application was named "Satellite", which was released in November of 2008. It originally cost $4.99 but its price was later reduced to just $.99 after the release of the official Reddit application.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2009/01/i-read-it-on-ireddit-official-reddit.html Shortly after that was released, the guys at 3Cube Technologies released Satellite at <s>$4.99</s> now just $.99.] - Posted by alexis kn0thing at 16:43 on (February 14th, 2009)</ref> The second application, released in December of 2008 was called "Open Source Reddit", differing from Satellite by being free of charge. In June, 2010 the Reddit staff revamped the mobile site located at i.reddit.com. The new site features rewritten [[CSS]], a new color scheme, and a multitude of improvements.<ref>http://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/cd9ju/weve_revamped_reddits_mobile_site_let_us_know/</ref><br />
<br />
==Notable Community contributions==<br />
* Reddit user Alan Schaaf created the popular free image hosting site [[Imgur]]<br />
* Graphic artist Mike Mitchell created the "I'm with COCO" poster, which has subsequently been adopted by Conan O'Brian for his The Legally Prohibited From Being Funny On Television Tour.<br />
* The saving of various abused and stray animals<br />
<br />
== See also ==<br />
* [[Diigo]]<br />
* [[Delicious (website)]]<br />
* [[Digg]]<br />
* [[Fark]]<br />
* [[StumbleUpon]]<br />
* [[Slashdot]]<br />
* [[Social bookmarking]]<br />
* [[Web 2.0]]<br />
* [[Imgur]]<br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
{{reflist}}<br />
<br />
== External links ==<br />
{{wikinews|Helen Thomas probes White House on torture; online community sends flowers}}<br />
*[http://reddit.com/ reddit]<br />
*[http://code.reddit.com/ Fixxit (reddit's code repository)]<br />
*[http://redditall.com/ think you've reddit all?] - Alexis' [[blog]] (the logo artist).<br />
*[http://redditjobs.com/ reddit's job board]<br />
<br />
{{Advance Publications}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:News websites]]<br />
[[Category:Social bookmarking]]<br />
[[Category:Free software programmed in Python]]<br />
[[Category:News aggregators]]<br />
<br />
[[ar:ريديت]]<br />
[[es:Reddit]]<br />
[[fr:Reddit]]<br />
[[it:Reddit]]<br />
[[ja:Reddit]]<br />
[[no:Reddit]]<br />
[[pl:Reddit]]<br />
[[pt:Reddit]]<br />
[[ru:Reddit]]<br />
[[simple:Reddit]]<br />
[[fi:Reddit]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reddit&diff=371087921Reddit2010-06-30T21:11:22Z<p>Hmm...: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{pp-semi-vandalism|small=yes}}<br />
{{Lowercase}}<br />
{{Infobox Website<br />
| name = reddit<br />
| logo = [[Image:Reddit logo.svg|reddit logo]]<br />
| screenshot = {{hidden|Screenshot|[[Image:Reddit2008.png|200px|reddit front page on June 11, 2008]]}}<br />
| caption = reddit front page on June 11, 2008<br />
| url = [http://www.reddit.com/ www.reddit.com]<br />
| commercial = Yes<br />
| type = News aggregation site<br />
| registration = Free<br />
| owner = [[Condé Nast Publications]]<br />
| author = Steve Huffman and Alexis Ohanian<br />
| launch date = 2005<br />
| revenue = <br />
}}<br />
'''reddit''' (pronounced /ˈrɛdɪt/, i.e. "read it", as in "have you read it?") is a [[social news]] website, owned by [[Condé Nast Publications|Conde Nast Digital]], a subsidiary of [[Advance_Publications|Advance Magazine Publishers Inc]]. Users can browse and have the option to submit links to content on the Internet or submit "self" posts that contain original, user-submitted text. Other users may then vote the posted links "up" or "down" with the most successful links gaining prominence by reaching the front page. In addition, users can comment on the posted links and reply to other commentators consequently forming a vibrant community. Reddit is unique in that users may create their own topical sections for which to submit their links and to comment.<br />
<br />
== Overview ==<br />
[[File:Reddit Mr. Splashy Pants.png|thumb|left|[[Mister Splashy Pants]] logo used on November 27, 2007]]<br />
The site has discussion areas in which users may discuss the posted links and vote for or against others' comments. When there are enough votes against a given comment, it will not be displayed by default, although a reader can display it through a link or preference. Users who submit articles, which other users like and subsequently "vote up," are then more likely to be displayed.<br />
<br />
Reddit includes topical sections called "reddits" (colloquially called "subreddits"), which focus on specific topics, such as [[pics]], [[funny] [[politics]], worldnews, [[atheism]], [[programming]], [[travel]], [[food]], [[science]] or the all encompassing reddit. Similar to various sections in a newspaper, each section focuses on user-generated content that is relevant to each reddit. There are hundreds of reddits and users are encouraged to create their own.<ref>[http://reddit.com/reddits reddits<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref> Submissions that are voted up receive prominence by being displayed on the front page of the specific reddit. Those submissions receiving a high rate of votes are then displayed on the main front page of reddit.com. Users may also subscribe and unsubscribe to various reddit sections allowing them to choose which links from which reddit is displayed on their personal front page. <br />
<br />
Some prominent reddits are IAmA, where users in interesting situations and jobs can answer other users' questions; and AskReddit, where any user can ask a question, and answer questions posed by others.<br />
<br />
The number of subreddits is quite large and growing. Several subreddit search engines have appeared. <br />
<br />
* [http://subredditfinder.com/ SubReddit Finder ] <br />
* [http://s272568090.onlinehome.us/reddit/karmanaut-redditmap.html Reddit User Karmanaut's bubble diagram]<br />
* http://metareddit.com/ Subreddit search and exploration tool<br />
* [http://hdevalence.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/routput2.gif Diagram of subreddits]<br />
<br />
Reddit.com employs a "karma" reward system for users who make submissions and comment on stories. Users gains one point of link karma when another user votes up their submission and loses a point when a user votes down their submission. Individual comments may also be voted up or down by other users and result in a user's comment karma. Users stop losing karma after their submission reaches 0. This is not the case for comments. <br />
<br />
The site also fosters discussion and a sense of community by notifying users of replies to with a "orangered" envelope. The site administrators are also active users replying directly to users, submitting their own submissions and commenting on stories. They also host video interviews with questions submitted by the community. The community have also have been known to socialize at local parks and bars around the world. <br />
<br />
The Reddit logo changes for various holidays and often for no reason, paying homage to ''[[Star Wars]]'', classic video games, and [[geek]] culture in general. It often changes in response to major discussion subjects within the site or major news stories.<br />
<br />
== History ==<br />
<!-->[[Image:Steve Huffman.jpg|thumb|right|Steve Huffman]]<!--><br />
Reddit was founded by Steve Huffman and Alexis Ohanian in 2005, both 22-year-old graduates of the [[University of Virginia]].<ref>{{cite news | last = Adams | first = Richard | title = reddit.com | publisher = [[The Guardian]] | date = 2005-12-08 | url = http://technology.guardian.co.uk/innovations/story/0,,1660870,00.html | accessdate = 2006-12-23 }}</ref> It received its initial funding from [[Y Combinator]]. The team expanded to include Christopher Slowe and [[Aaron Swartz]] in 2005. Aaron Swartz joined in late January 2006 as part of the company's merger with Swartz's Infogami.<ref>{{cite web | url= http://infogami.com/blog/introduction|title= Introducing Infogami<br />
|last=Swartz | first=Aaron | authorlink=Aaron Swartz| publisher=Infogami | date=February 27, 2006 | accessdate= 2007-01-06}}</ref> The combined company was known as "not a bug." [[Condé Nast Publications]], owner of ''[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]]'', acquired "not a bug" on October 31, 2006.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://www.techcrunch.com/2006/10/31/breaking-news-conde-nastwired-acquires-reddit/ | title = Breaking news: Condé Nast/Wired Acquires reddit | publisher = [[TechCrunch]]|date=October 31, 2006|accessdate= 2007-01-06 | last=Arrington | first=Michael | authorlink=Michael Arrington}}</ref><br />
<br />
On June 18, 2008, Reddit became an [[open source]] project.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2008/06/reddit-goes-open-source.html Open source announcement on the Reddit blog]</ref> With the exception of the anti-spam/cheating portions, all of the code and libraries written for Reddit became freely available on another website dubbed "Fixxit."<ref>http://code.reddit.com/</ref><br />
<br />
Reddit was named by Ohanian while browsing the [[University of Virginia]]'s Alderman Library.<ref>[http://reddit.blogspot.com/2008/02/reddit-nostalgia-whence-came-name.html "reddit nostalgia: whence came the name?," on Alexis Ohanian's blog]</ref><br />
<br />
In January 2010, Reddit users raised over $134,000 for the victims of the [[2010 Haiti earthquake]].<ref>http://dri.convio.net/site/TR?pg=fund&fr_id=1030&pxfid=1511</ref><br />
<br />
== Technology ==<br />
Reddit was originally written in [[Common Lisp]] but was rewritten in [[Python (programming language)|Python]] in 2005.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2005/12/on-lisp.html "On lisp" blog post by Reddit founder "spez," detailing the reasons for switching to python from lisp]</ref> The reasons given for the switch were faster performance, wider access to [[Library (computing)|code libraries]], and greater development flexibility. The Python web framework that former reddit employee [[Aaron Swartz]] developed to run the site, ''web.py'', is now available as an open-source project.<ref>[http://webpy.org/ Official web.py site]</ref><br />
<br />
Reddit currently uses [[Pylons]] as its web framework.<ref>[http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/pylonscommunity/Sites+Using+Pylons Sites Using Pylons] - Pylons Community&nbsp;— PythonWeb</ref> The site was hosted on several [[Linux]] [[web server|servers]] running [[lighttpd]], HaProxy, and paster;<ref>[http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.reddit.com Netcraft report on reddit.com]</ref> however, as of November of 2009, Reddit has decommissioned their physical servers and migrated to [[Amazon Web Services]].<ref>http://blog.reddit.com/2009/11/moving-to-cloud.html Moving to the cloud on blog.reddit.com</ref><br />
In early 2009, Reddit started using [[jQuery]].<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2009/01/reddit-now-powered-by-jquery.html what's new on reddit: reddit now powered by jQuery] - Posted by Chris Slowe (keysersosa) (Friday, January 30, 2009) - blog.reddit</ref><br />
<br />
On February 18, 2009, Reddit released an [[iPhone]] Application for $1.99, which allows users to more easily navigate the site while using the iPhone. There were also several other reddit iPhone Applications made available, prior to the official application's release date. The first application was named "Satellite", which was released in November of 2008. It originally cost $4.99 but its price was later reduced to just $.99 after the release of the official Reddit application.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2009/01/i-read-it-on-ireddit-official-reddit.html Shortly after that was released, the guys at 3Cube Technologies released Satellite at <s>$4.99</s> now just $.99.] - Posted by alexis kn0thing at 16:43 on (February 14th, 2009)</ref> The second application, released in December of 2008 was called "Open Source Reddit", differing from Satellite by being free of charge. In June, 2010 the Reddit staff revamped the mobile site located at i.reddit.com. The new site features rewritten [[CSS]], a new color scheme, and a multitude of improvements.<ref>http://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/cd9ju/weve_revamped_reddits_mobile_site_let_us_know/</ref><br />
<br />
==Notable Community contributions==<br />
* Reddit user Alan Schaaf created the popular free image hosting site [[Imgur]]<br />
* Graphic artist Mike Mitchell created the "I'm with COCO" poster, which has subsequently been adopted by Conan O'Brian for his The Legally Prohibited From Being Funny On Television Tour.<br />
* The saving of various abused and stray animals<br />
<br />
== See also ==<br />
* [[Diigo]]<br />
* [[Delicious (website)]]<br />
* [[Digg]]<br />
* [[Fark]]<br />
* [[StumbleUpon]]<br />
* [[Slashdot]]<br />
* [[Social bookmarking]]<br />
* [[Web 2.0]]<br />
* [[Imgur]]<br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
{{reflist}}<br />
<br />
== External links ==<br />
{{wikinews|Helen Thomas probes White House on torture; online community sends flowers}}<br />
*[http://reddit.com/ reddit]<br />
*[http://code.reddit.com/ Fixxit (reddit's code repository)]<br />
*[http://redditall.com/ think you've reddit all?] - Alexis' [[blog]] (the logo artist).<br />
*[http://redditjobs.com/ reddit's job board]<br />
<br />
{{Advance Publications}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:News websites]]<br />
[[Category:Social bookmarking]]<br />
[[Category:Free software programmed in Python]]<br />
[[Category:News aggregators]]<br />
<br />
[[ar:ريديت]]<br />
[[es:Reddit]]<br />
[[fr:Reddit]]<br />
[[it:Reddit]]<br />
[[ja:Reddit]]<br />
[[no:Reddit]]<br />
[[pl:Reddit]]<br />
[[pt:Reddit]]<br />
[[ru:Reddit]]<br />
[[simple:Reddit]]<br />
[[fi:Reddit]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Reddit&diff=369493576Talk:Reddit2010-06-22T04:49:52Z<p>Hmm...: /* Hey Guys I made a whole bunch of edits */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>{{WikiProject Internet}}<br />
{{WikiProject Internet Culture}}<br />
{{oldafdfull|page=Reddit|date=6 February 2009|result='''nomination withdrawn'''}} <br />
<br />
== The Great Reddit Crash? ==<br />
<br />
This section seems overly dramatic for a simple site outage. Nobody is going to remember or care about a short outage in the future, it happens all the time. The content in this section is certainly not encyclopedic. I propose this section be removed. --[[User:Ghewgill|Ghewgill]] 18:41, 13 December 2006 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Of course it should be removed/rewritten sooner or later. But right now, it feels right.<br />
Right now, I'm suffering serious withdrawal syndromes. [[User:84.137.115.18|84.137.115.18]] 18:49, 13 December 2006 (UTC)<br />
<br />
What's up with the crash? I can't find any other info anywhere. [[User:206.210.72.22|206.210.72.22]] 19:07, 13 December 2006 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The IP is 72.5.28.218, add it to your hosts file. [http://reddit.com/blog/downtime Blog post]. [[User:Deadfones|Deadfones]] 19:13, 13 December 2006 (UTC)<br />
<br />
There was a lot of bullshit written on there. Very unencyclopedic, and unsuitable for Wikipedia. I removed most of it. [[User:Freshyill|Freshyill]] 19:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The "outage" section is no longer relevant as reddit is back online. Wikipedia is not a news service. --[[User:Ghewgill|Ghewgill]] 21:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I'm not seeing it online [[User:Freshyill|Freshyill]] 22:11, 13 December 2006 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Fear not: The internet is self-healing! --[[User:Ghewgill|Ghewgill]] 23:15, 13 December 2006 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I still don't see it. --[[User:Danlock2|Danlock2]] 04:06, 14 December 2006 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Going on 24 hours and I still don't see it. I think that a major site like this being out for an entire day with no word from the admins may qualify as being Wikipedia-worthy. [[User:Freshyill|Freshyill]] 06:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::reddit continues work for me. They posted a [http://reddit.com/blog/downtime blog entry] explaining the dns blunder. If you can't read that yet, here's the [http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?hl=en&q=reddit+downtime+blogurl:http://reddit.com/&ie=UTF-8 google blogsearch result] for it. Again, wikipedia is not ([[WP:NOT#OR]]) a news service. --[[User:Ghewgill|Ghewgill]] 08:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::The reddit blog posts don't work either, since they're hosted on reddit.com. The site doesn't work, but the rss feed keeps updating with new headlines for me, whats going on? [[User:70.107.64.60|70.107.64.60]] 20:48, 14 December 2006 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It's okay guys. I put it back up.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Open source version ==<br />
Is there an open source version of reddit?[[User:Maaparty|Maaparty]] 18:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)<br />
** You may want to use [http://www.pligg.com/ Pligg] [[User:Shabda|Shabda]]<br />
** reddit IS open sourced. [http://code.reddit.com/ Reddit Code] [[User:Plbogen|Plbogen]] ([[User talk:Plbogen|talk]]) 21:40, 29 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== No assertion of notability ==<br />
<br />
Please provide an assertion of notability, or I will nominate this article for deletion under [[WP:N]]. Thanks. --[[User:N Shar|N Shar]] 01:57, 29 January 2007 (UTC)<br />
:There are multiple sources in the article, and the company was bought by [[Conde Nast]]. It easily passes [[WP:N]]. -[[User:SpuriousQ|SpuriousQ]] 02:00, 29 January 2007 (UTC)<br />
==Fair use rationale for Image:Reddit logo.png==<br />
[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|70px|left]]<br />
'''[[:Image:Reddit logo.png]]''' is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] but there is no [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline|explanation or rationale]] as to why its use in '''this''' Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags/Fair use|boilerplate fair use template]], you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with [[WP:FU|fair use]].<br />
<br />
Please go to [[:Image:Reddit logo.png|the image description page]] and edit it to include a [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline |fair use rationale]]. Using one of the templates at [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline]] is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.<br />
<br />
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Missing rationale2 -->[[User:BetacommandBot|BetacommandBot]] 23:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Origin of name ==<br />
<br />
So why is it called Reddit ?<br />
From "read it" or the latin ? <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.132.52.104|86.132.52.104]] ([[User talk:86.132.52.104|talk]]) 15:26, 28 October 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
:This is probably a little late, but it's just short for "read it," [http://www.redditall.com/2008/02/reddit-nostalgia-whence-came-name.html according to Alexis Ohanian's blog]. I'll put that in the article.<br />
<br />
Reddit was the name of the founder's dog.[[User:TechMology|TechMology]] ([[User talk:TechMology|talk]]) 02:04, 6 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Liberal Bias? ==<br />
Reddit is well known for having a very strong liberal bias. I don't see mention of that in the article. Time to make that change, maybe? <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/81.23.56.80|81.23.56.80]] ([[User talk:81.23.56.80|talk]]) 12:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
<br />
I don't think the bias is just liberal, I see many extreme right wing viewpoints as well as extreme left wing. I think it attracts extremists in general. [[Special:Contributions/204.193.129.239|204.193.129.239]] ([[User talk:204.193.129.239|talk]]) 09:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think it has more Ron Paul threads than any site I ever saw. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.152.231.88|24.152.231.88]] ([[User talk:24.152.231.88|talk]]) 02:29, 16 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
<br />
Being that its content is user-submitted, the "bias" is dependent on the submitters of stories and could change at any time. [[Special:Contributions/12.32.90.56|12.32.90.56]] ([[User talk:12.32.90.56|talk]]) 21:17, 15 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Well, I've been looking it over for a few months now, and despite the fact that it's user submitted and ''could'' change at any time, it hasn't. They've had a strong liberal bias for some time now, and I think it should be mentioned in the article. [[User:Bobman52|Bobman52]] ([[User talk:Bobman52|talk]]) 18:43, 17 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
In relation to the fact that the "bias" is based on the submitters and users that vote, this is no different then saying the bias of a newspaper comes from its staff and editors and they could change at any time.<br />
<br />
I'm sorry, but can you cite your sources about Reddit having a liberal bias, or is this based upon your own observation over the last several months? <facepalm!> [[User:Linny harp|Linny harp]] ([[User talk:Linny harp|talk]]) 01:44, 15 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Not that this belongs in the article, but Reddit has both strong liberal and libertarian elements. It does seem to almost completely lack conservatives though.<br />
[[Special:Contributions/99.175.83.210|99.175.83.210]] ([[User talk:99.175.83.210|talk]]) 01:35, 17 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's not the "liberals" fault if conservatives don't know how to use the internets or dont like a certain website, everyone is free to join and submit any posts they want there's no bias. [[user:chandler|chan]][[user talk:chandler|dler]] '''[[Special:Contributions/Chandler|···]]''' 01:40, 17 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::There is a variety of biases in reddit, but it is also very diverse. Also, the existence of subreddits complicates it a little further.(And also relieves it, as countering opinions can get their stories noticed there.) There are other problems, making an assessment of the biases in reddit is original work, and would be hard without giving a pov to this article. Further it might just make this article undue length.[[Special:Contributions/88.159.74.89|88.159.74.89]] ([[User talk:88.159.74.89|talk]]) 00:10, 31 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Come on ===<br />
I am a Libertarian, an Agnostic, and a Software Engineer, and even I find it a bit tiresome how so much of what is posted on Reddit is either Theist vs. Atheist babble or Computer Programming babble. Seriously, it's nothing I disagree with, but it's like a broken record. So let's be honest here. This is a website that regardless of the process involved in how it attains its content, at this point at least, has a very clear theme to it. [[User:BillyTFried|BillyTFried]] ([[User talk:BillyTFried|talk]]) 09:07, 21 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== reddit is a Wikipedia attack site. ==<br />
<br />
According to [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]], anyway. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:SqueakBox&diff=197801742&oldid=197781089]<br />
<br />
The link in question was a [http://reddit.com/info/6bqsx/comments/ self-submitted article suggesting everyone donate money to the Wikimedia Foundation]. Many people expressed that they donated money in support of the site. Others posted valid, critical facts about the site's flaws. Due to not being 100% on the site of Wikipedia, it has been denounced as an attack site.<br />
<br />
I'm sure all the people who donated really appreciate being given this label, especially the redditor that [http://reddit.com/info/6bqsx/comments/c03fbxi donated $100], since this site is very mature and run by upstanding individuals. <br />
<br />
reddit is not an attack site. However, if you have the tools, and a personal vendetta against reddit, you now have your firepower to ruin this article. [[Special:Contributions/75.66.233.162|75.66.233.162]] ([[User talk:75.66.233.162|talk]]) 14:50, 16 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Have you seen the influence of SqueakBox, or has the article been modified to make it appear as if reddit is an attack site? No? Then you have nothing to worry. Don't open the umbrella before the rain. I personally think The Inquirer is an attack site against Wikipedia (especially since the Everywhere girl article got deleted), but I don't go there and put my thoughts there. Good editors keep what they think and what they can edit separated. -- [[User:ReyBrujo|ReyBrujo]] ([[User talk:ReyBrujo|talk]]) 15:12, 16 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Logo ==<br />
<br />
Why is it significant enough to mention that the logo frequently changes? [[User:RJFJR|RJFJR]] ([[User talk:RJFJR|talk]]) 19:33, 16 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Well for anyone that might not know what the site is, and they come on a day when the logo has changed there might be some confusion. --[[User:Sousveillipedia|Sousveillipedia]] ([[User talk:Sousveillipedia|talk]]) 04:14, 28 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Reddit uses whale techmology to ensure constantly changing minor edits to their logo.[[User:TechMology|TechMology]] ([[User talk:TechMology|talk]]) 02:04, 6 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It's considered a core element of reddit culture. An extremely popular, awesome, or reddit-related thread can quickly lead to a new temporary logo, which can also immediately confuse people since there is no clear explanation of what the logo is for. If someone makes a piece of toast with a reddit logo on it and posts the picture to reddit, and an admin decides that's awesome, they might crop the toast, size it down, and use it for a joke logo for a few hours/days, but there's no way to link the new logo back to the original toast post. Currently there is a subreddit just for posting explanations for the logo with links to the thread(s) being referenced, so people who weren't there for the joke can understand what the heck is going on. This was not always the case, aggravating many new or casual redditors who would then either be confused as to what was happening, or busy digging through links trying to find the right one, especially if the link in question was posted to a subreddit which the user did not subscribe to. I'd imagine including it on the wikipedia page was an attempt to explain to people new to the site that there is a method to the logo madness. [[User:Reddyenumber4|Reddyenumber4]] ([[User talk:Reddyenumber4|talk]]) 07:18, 6 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Owner Moderation ==<br />
<br />
The Overview section claims, "Reddit is not moderated by its owners," however, this is untrue. Comments are sometimes hidden to all but the original commenter, so detecting the censorship is difficult to detect without access to multiple computers. At this time, the hidden comments can be detected when a story claims to have X number of comments, but actually has X minus one comments. This article's Overview section should be corrected. --[[Special:Contributions/72.71.253.157|72.71.253.157]] ([[User talk:72.71.253.157|talk]]) 16:53, 8 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:There is moderation by forum (subreddit) moderators, but it's misleading to assume that involves the site owners at all (though it sometimes does). Anyone can create a forum, and moderate it, and invite anyone else to be a moderator. The handful of largest (and earliest) forums do have the site owners as moderators, but there's nothing magic about those forums other than being the oldest and having the most traffic. The hundreds of other forums are, as far as I can tell, completely independent of the site owners' authority. There is nothing stopping any redditor from creating their own subreddit, with their own rules and surpassing the current largest forums in popularity and traffic, without involving or inviting the site owners at all. <br />
<br />
:As far as it being a sign of hidden comments when the comment count is higher than the visible comments, I'll take your word for it that subreddit moderators can do this (without multiple computers I can't test it for myself), but I've also seen this happen when comments are deleted; the comment count in the header will sometimes continue to include the deleted comments. I don't understand why it's inconsistent about this, but I've seen it happen with my own self-deleted comments and it is not any kind of certain indication that a moderator hid a comment. [[Special:Contributions/72.227.183.222|72.227.183.222]] ([[User talk:72.227.183.222|talk]]) 19:00, 26 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Not seeing the relevance that there also exists subreddit moderators, in addition to the primary reddit forums. I have personally seen this moderation on my own comments, and I have read other Reddit users complaining of their own moderation. Unless you can provide a citation backing up your claim that the site owners are not involved with this moderation, then the misleading statement in the Overview section should be removed. I have removed the statement. Should you decide to override my change, then I suggest you put the text back in a way that will not mislead the reader into believing there is no comment moderation, in addition to providing a citation to your claim. --[[Special:Contributions/71.168.124.11|71.168.124.11]] ([[User talk:71.168.124.11|talk]]) 23:07, 4 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::There is moderation. It is not by the site owners. It is by the moderators of a particular subreddit. The site owners are also moderators of some the the subreddits, but do not have moderation rights in every subreddit. These rights probably vary depending on which of the site's owners it is. I don't have a third-party source for this right now. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/119.224.25.85|119.224.25.85]] ([[User talk:119.224.25.85|talk]]) 15:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
<br />
::::Here to further explain - all content on the site has to be submitted to a subreddit. Subreddits are moderated voluntarily by the people who create them, and they can choose to add more moderators whose powers are mostly dedicated to getting rid of spam. People can then choose to join subreddits to get different sections of news, which will be included in their personal front page. If a mod abuses their power and the other mods don't do something about it, usually the proactive half of the community packs up and moves to a different subreddit under new leadership, and since they're the ones submitting links, the more passive half ends up following them to continue getting the same news. Since the code that determines front page content takes into account the difference between subreddits with several hundred and several thousand subscribers, changing subreddits to avoid a troublesome moderator will also alter the weighting system for the front page, so if one were to hypothetically move from r/news to r/news2, where news2 had only 1/10th the subscribers, news2 stories would still compete with much larger subreddits in link aggregation because the site would account for it's smaller size, making it much easier for a link from a 50 person subreddit to hit one's personal front page, than a link from a subreddit with 25,000 people. The site admins basically add new features and fix things when they break, and they are the only ones that moderate the r/reddit.com subreddit. There are a variety of subreddits subscribed to by default with a new account, but they can all be unsubscribed to. Additional spam control measures are a set of detection features coded into the way the website works automatically, and a newly implemented feature that displays one possible spam link at the top of the user's front page, and asks for the user's opinion of the quality of the link. Between this and the voting system already in place, reddit has tried to rely on a free market for aggregating content, eliminating spam, and organizing community leaders for different subreddits, with the few actual employees of the website usually spending their time developing new features and plans for the community. If a meme becomes popular, the admins might add a new T-Shirt to the store regarding it. If there is a thread suggesting an idea like a reddit meetup day, the admins might make a blog post to officially endorse it. But for the most part, the community is run and regulated by the users, the mods they endorse, and the built in spam filters. Since this is original research, I'm just posting it to clarify how the system works in practice given my own personal knowledge of the subject. Reddit contains a series of F.A.Q.s and blog posts dealing with site design and functionality, so anyone looking to source this might try there. [[User:Reddyenumber4|Reddyenumber4]] ([[User talk:Reddyenumber4|talk]]) 07:07, 6 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Delete this Article ==<br />
<br />
There is no reason there should be an article for reddit. The crowd that hangs there is *very* biased. I guess they just used their numbers to keep this page here.. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/122.169.88.198|122.169.88.198]] ([[User talk:122.169.88.198|talk]]) 07:58, 12 May 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
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:Hitler was very biased too, that is no reason to remove the article on him. If you mean that this wikipedia article is biased, you should point out where. (And as noted, it easily passes notability.) [[Special:Contributions/88.159.74.89|88.159.74.89]] ([[User talk:88.159.74.89|talk]]) 00:02, 31 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Reddit really does not deserve an article though. No need to waste space on wikipedia for every small message board and site out there. It's not notable. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.238.248.83|71.238.248.83]] ([[User talk:71.238.248.83|talk]]) 03:34, 6 August 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
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:Then the article for Digg would have to go too. They are very similar "message boards". [[User:PaulHat|PaulHat]] ([[User talk:PaulHat|talk]]) 21:59, 21 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Reddit is a major website ranked #533 on Alexa rankings at the moment, saying it's not notable is incorrect. [http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/reddit.com# Link to Alexa stats]<br />
<br />
== Fantastically biased statement ==<br />
<br />
This opinion is offered in the article:<br />
<br />
Top topics on the site typically reflect the far-left of American politics extolling atheism and socialism. Some have commented that the rampant down-ranking of topics and posts whose only fault is promoting an idealogy different from the liberal consensus on the site, and not because of errors in content or clear trolling like many general aggregator websites, makes reddit little more than a "liberal echo chamber."<br />
<br />
I recommend deletion. {{unsigned|Fimbulfamb}}<br />
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: Can't disagree with that, so I removed it. Remember that you are encouraged to [[WP:BOLD|be bold]] and make such changes yourself. Thanks for pointing it out. [[User:Haakon|Haakon]] ([[User talk:Haakon|talk]]) 20:12, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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: Yet, any objective person would find it true. Atheism and socialism are often top topics and can be tracked day in and day out on the website. And both constitute far-left ideas with respect to American politics. Does wikipedia not honor honesty if it hurts the sensibilities of those who espouse such views when they are right called far-left by American standards? {{unsigned|Libertyaboveallelse}}<br />
<br />
:: Oh, I absolutely agree with the statement, but just because some Wikipedia editors agree with something doesn't make it a neutral, objective fact. Statements about reddit's political bent can be included if it can be properly [[WP:CITE|cited]]. [[User:Haakon|Haakon]] ([[User talk:Haakon|talk]]) 08:29, 21 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Yahoo! Favicon ==<br />
<br />
The favicon for Reddit now appears to be a Yahoo! symbol. Did Reddit get bought out by Yahoo!? [[User:Axeman|Axeman]] ([[User talk:Axeman|talk]]) 06:05, 3 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Supported views ==<br />
The community of Reddit in general is undoubtly leaning towards certain views.<br />
Posts that are anti-religion/pro-atheism, anti-Israel, pro-drugs often get to the front page (while ones opposing them have no chance of getting there), comments that support these views are also usually getting upvoted, while those opposing them get downvoted.<br />
<br />
While this may not necessarily reflect the views of Reddit's administration, shouldn't there be a reference in the article? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/77.125.153.182|77.125.153.182]] ([[User talk:77.125.153.182|talk]]) 16:24, 19 December 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
<br />
: Definitely, if someone can find a source that says this. Without a source, it would be [[WP:OR|original research]]. [[User:Haakon|Haakon]] ([[User talk:Haakon|talk]]) 16:53, 19 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Improper language ("sob stories" et al) ==<br />
<br />
"reddit (or "Reddit", as called by less literate wikipedians) is well known for its self-congratulation. This often revolves around giving random strangers money or pizza in exchange for sob stories"<br />
<br />
doesn't strike one (irregardless of level of literacy) as terribly encyclopedic. It also lacks sources. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Jann.poppinga|Jann.poppinga]] ([[User talk:Jann.poppinga|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jann.poppinga|contribs]]) 21:28, 15 March 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
<br />
== Edit request from Way29, 24 May 2010 ==<br />
<br />
{{tl|editsemiprotected}}<br />
<!-- Begin request --><br />
There is also a Reddit Sidebar for firefox which can be downloaded for free at https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/53873/<br />
<br />
<!-- End request --><br />
[[User:Way29|Way29]] ([[User talk:Way29|talk]]) 06:28, 24 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Hi there, please make any future requests in the format of "''Please change x to y''", otherwise it can be difficult for us to understand what edit you would like to be made. What would you like us to add to the article and where? <span style="font-family:Segoe Media Center">[[User:Jeffrey Mall|Jeffrey Mall]]</span> <small>([[User talk:Jeffrey Mall|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jeffrey Mall|contribs]])</small> - 12:30, 24 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::{{ESp|?}}per above. [[User:Spitfire19|<font face="Segoe Print,Serif">Spitfire'''''19'''''</font>]] ([[User talk:Spitfire19|Talk]]) 14:16, 24 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
Down in external links I suppose Way29 wants this<br />
{{wikinews|Helen Thomas probes White House on torture; online community sends flowers}}<br />
*[http://reddit.com/ reddit]<br />
*[http://code.reddit.com/ Fixxit (reddit's code repository)]<br />
*[http://redditall.com/ think you've reddit all?] - Alexis' [[blog]] (the logo artist).<br />
*[http://redditjobs.com/ reddit's job board]<br />
changed to this<br />
{{wikinews|Helen Thomas probes White House on torture; online community sends flowers}}<br />
*[http://reddit.com/ reddit]<br />
*[http://code.reddit.com/ Fixxit (reddit's code repository)]<br />
*[http://redditall.com/ think you've reddit all?] - Alexis' [[blog]] (the logo artist).<br />
*[http://redditjobs.com/ reddit's job board]<br />
*[https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/53873/ Reddit.com What\'s Hot and What\'s New scrolling ticker in your firefox side bar]<br />
[[Special:Contributions/74.84.109.41|74.84.109.41]] ([[User talk:74.84.109.41|talk]]) 13:56, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:The wikinews link is from 2008. Unless reddit recently sent Helen Thomas roses, it's more like History than News - that link. Of course, the info should be incorporated in the article before the link is deleted. I guess Way29 isn't up to doing that, either. [[Special:Contributions/74.84.109.41|74.84.109.41]] ([[User talk:74.84.109.41|talk]]) 14:39, 8 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hey Guys I made a whole bunch of edits ==<br />
<br />
but if you ask me to source anything I will just trollface cause I am lazy. Problem?</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reddit&diff=369492937Reddit2010-06-22T04:42:48Z<p>Hmm...: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{pp-semi-vandalism|small=yes}}<br />
{{Lowercase}}<br />
{{Infobox Website<br />
| name = reddit<br />
| logo = [[Image:Reddit logo.svg|reddit logo]]<br />
| screenshot = {{hidden|Screenshot|[[Image:Reddit2008.png|200px|reddit front page on June 11, 2008]]}}<br />
| caption = reddit front page on June 11, 2008<br />
| url = [http://www.reddit.com/ www.reddit.com]<br />
| commercial = Yes<br />
| type = News aggregation site<br />
| registration = Free<br />
| owner = [[Condé Nast Publications]]<br />
| author = Steve Huffman and Alexis Ohanian<br />
| launch date = 2005<br />
| revenue = <br />
}}<br />
'''reddit''' is a [[social news]] website, owned by [[Condé Nast Publications|Conde Nast Digital]], a subsidiary of [[Advance_Publications|Advance Magazine Publishers Inc]]. Users can browse and have the option to submit links to content on the Internet or submit "self" posts that contain original, user-submitted text. Other users may then vote the posted links "up" or "down" with the most successful links gaining prominence by reaching the front page. In addition, users can comment on the posted links and reply to other commentators, and consequently form a vibrant community. Reddit is unique in that users may create their own topical sections for which to submit their links and to comment.<br />
<br />
== Overview ==<br />
[[File:Reddit Mr. Splashy Pants.png|thumb|left|[[Mister Splashy Pants]] logo used on November 27, 2007]]<br />
The site has discussion areas in which users may discuss the posted links and vote for or against others' comments. When there are enough votes against a given comment, it will not be displayed by default, although a reader can display it through a link or preference. Users who submit articles, which other users like and subsequently "vote up," are then more likely to be displayed.<br />
<br />
Reddit includes topical sections called "reddits" (colloquially called "subreddits"), which focus on specific topics, such as [[pics]], [[funny] [[politics]], worldnews, [[atheism]], [[programming]], [[travel]], [[food]], [[science]] or the all encompassing reddit. Similar to various sections in a newspaper, each section focuses on user-generated content that is relevant to each reddit. There are hundreds of reddits and users are encouraged to create their own.<ref>[http://reddit.com/reddits reddits<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref> Submissions that are voted up receive prominence by being displayed on the front page of the specific reddit. Those submissions receiving a high rate of votes are then displayed on the main front page of reddit.com. Users may also subscribe and unsubscribe to various reddit sections allowing them to choose which links from which reddit is displayed on their personal front page. <br />
<br />
Reddit.com employs a "karma" reward system for users who make submissions and comment on stories. Users gains one point of link karma when another user votes up their submission and loses a point when a user votes down their submission. Individual comments may also be voted up or down by other users and result in a user's comment karma. Users stop losing karma after their submission reaches 0. This is not the case for comments. <br />
<br />
The site also fosters discussion and a sense of community by notifying users of replies to with a "orangered" envelope. The site administrators are also active users replying directly to users, submitting their own submissions and commenting on stories. They also host video interviews with questions submitted by the community. The site also hosts an IamA reddit allowing users in in interesting situations and jobs to answer other user's questions. Users may also submit questions to the AskReddit reddit where other users answer the questions posed. The community have also have been known to socialize at local parks and bars around the world. <br />
<br />
The Reddit logo changes for various holidays and often for no reason, paying homage to ''[[Star Wars]]'', classic video games, and [[geek]] culture in general. It often changes in response to major discussion subjects within the site or major news stories.<br />
<br />
== History ==<br />
<!-->[[Image:Steve Huffman.jpg|thumb|right|Steve Huffman]]<!--><br />
Reddit was founded by Steve Huffman and Alexis Ohanian in 2005, both 22-year-old graduates of the [[University of Virginia]].<ref>{{cite news | last = Adams | first = Richard | title = reddit.com | publisher = [[The Guardian]] | date = 2005-12-08 | url = http://technology.guardian.co.uk/innovations/story/0,,1660870,00.html | accessdate = 2006-12-23 }}</ref> It received its initial funding from [[Y Combinator]]. The team expanded to include Christopher Slowe and [[Aaron Swartz]] in 2005. Aaron Swartz joined in late January 2006 as part of the company's merger with Swartz's Infogami.<ref>{{cite web | url= http://infogami.com/blog/introduction|title= Introducing Infogami<br />
|last=Swartz | first=Aaron | authorlink=Aaron Swartz| publisher=Infogami | date=February 27, 2006 | accessdate= 2007-01-06}}</ref> The combined company was known as "not a bug." [[Condé Nast Publications]], owner of ''[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]]'', acquired "not a bug" on October 31, 2006.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://www.techcrunch.com/2006/10/31/breaking-news-conde-nastwired-acquires-reddit/ | title = Breaking news: Condé Nast/Wired Acquires reddit | publisher = [[TechCrunch]]|date=October 31, 2006|accessdate= 2007-01-06 | last=Arrington | first=Michael | authorlink=Michael Arrington}}</ref><br />
<br />
On June 18, 2008, Reddit became an [[open source]] project.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2008/06/reddit-goes-open-source.html Open source announcement on the Reddit blog]</ref> With the exception of the anti-spam/cheating portions, all of the code and libraries written for Reddit became freely available on another website dubbed "Fixxit."<ref>http://code.reddit.com/</ref><br />
<br />
Reddit was named by Ohanian while browsing the [[University of Virginia]]'s Alderman Library.<ref>[http://reddit.blogspot.com/2008/02/reddit-nostalgia-whence-came-name.html "reddit nostalgia: whence came the name?," on Alexis Ohanian's blog]</ref> It is pronounced, "read it", as in the question, "Have you read it?"<br />
<br />
In January 2010, Reddit users raised over $134,000 for the victims of the [[2010 Haiti earthquake]].<ref>http://dri.convio.net/site/TR?pg=fund&fr_id=1030&pxfid=1511</ref><br />
<br />
== Technology ==<br />
Reddit was originally written in [[Common Lisp]] but was rewritten in [[Python (programming language)|Python]] in 2005.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2005/12/on-lisp.html "On lisp" blog post by Reddit founder "spez," detailing the reasons for switching to python from lisp]</ref> The reasons given for the switch were faster performance, wider access to [[Library (computing)|code libraries]], and greater development flexibility. The Python web framework that former reddit employee [[Aaron Swartz]] developed to run the site, ''web.py'', is now available as an open-source project.<ref>[http://webpy.org/ Official web.py site]</ref><br />
<br />
Reddit currently uses [[Pylons]] as its web framework.<ref>[http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/pylonscommunity/Sites+Using+Pylons Sites Using Pylons] - Pylons Community&nbsp;— PythonWeb</ref> The site was hosted on several [[Linux]] [[web server|servers]] running [[lighttpd]], HaProxy, and paster;<ref>[http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.reddit.com Netcraft report on reddit.com]</ref> however, as of November of 2009, Reddit has decommissioned their physical servers and migrated to [[Amazon Web Services]].<ref>http://blog.reddit.com/2009/11/moving-to-cloud.html Moving to the cloud on blog.reddit.com</ref><br />
In early 2009, Reddit started using [[jQuery]].<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2009/01/reddit-now-powered-by-jquery.html what's new on reddit: reddit now powered by jQuery] - Posted by Chris Slowe (keysersosa) (Friday, January 30, 2009) - blog.reddit</ref><br />
<br />
On February 18, 2009, Reddit released an [[iPhone]] Application for $1.99, which allows users to more easily navigate the site while using the iPhone. There were also several other reddit iPhone Applications made available, prior to the official application's release date. The first application was named "Satellite", which was released in November of 2008. It originally cost $4.99 but its price was later reduced to just $.99 after the release of the official Reddit application.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2009/01/i-read-it-on-ireddit-official-reddit.html Shortly after that was released, the guys at 3Cube Technologies released Satellite at <s>$4.99</s> now just $.99.] - Posted by alexis kn0thing at 16:43 on (February 14th, 2009)</ref> The second application, released in December of 2008 was called "Open Source Reddit", differing from Satellite by being free of charge. In June, 2010 the Reddit staff revamped the mobile site located at i.reddit.com. The new site features rewritten [[CSS]], a new color scheme, and a multitude of improvements.<ref>http://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/cd9ju/weve_revamped_reddits_mobile_site_let_us_know/</ref><br />
<br />
==Mainstream influence==<br />
''just because I can't think of any right now doesn't mean there isn't any''<br />
<br />
==Notable Community contributions==<br />
* Reddit user Alan Schaaf created the popular free image hosting site [[Imgur]]<br />
* Graphic artist Mike Mitchell created the "I'm with COCO" poster, which has subsequently been adopted by Conan O'Brian for his The Legally Prohibited From Being Funny On Television Tour.<br />
* The saving of various abused and stray animals<br />
<br />
== See also ==<br />
* [[Diigo]]<br />
* [[Delicious (website)]]<br />
* [[Digg]]<br />
* [[Fark]]<br />
* [[StumbleUpon]]<br />
* [[Slashdot]]<br />
* [[Social bookmarking]]<br />
* [[Web 2.0]]<br />
* [[Imgur]]<br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
{{reflist}}<br />
<br />
== External links ==<br />
{{wikinews|Helen Thomas probes White House on torture; online community sends flowers}}<br />
*[http://reddit.com/ reddit]<br />
*[http://code.reddit.com/ Fixxit (reddit's code repository)]<br />
*[http://redditall.com/ think you've reddit all?] - Alexis' [[blog]] (the logo artist).<br />
*[http://redditjobs.com/ reddit's job board]<br />
<br />
{{Advance Publications}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:News websites]]<br />
[[Category:Social bookmarking]]<br />
[[Category:Free software programmed in Python]]<br />
[[Category:News aggregators]]<br />
<br />
[[ar:ريديت]]<br />
[[es:Reddit]]<br />
[[fr:Reddit]]<br />
[[it:Reddit]]<br />
[[ja:Reddit]]<br />
[[no:Reddit]]<br />
[[pl:Reddit]]<br />
[[pt:Reddit]]<br />
[[ru:Reddit]]<br />
[[simple:Reddit]]<br />
[[fi:Reddit]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reddit&diff=369484310Reddit2010-06-22T03:15:13Z<p>Hmm...: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{pp-semi-vandalism|small=yes}}<br />
{{Lowercase}}<br />
{{Infobox Website<br />
| name = reddit<br />
| logo = [[Image:Reddit logo.svg|reddit logo]]<br />
| screenshot = {{hidden|Screenshot|[[Image:Reddit2008.png|200px|reddit front page on June 11, 2008]]}}<br />
| caption = reddit front page on June 11, 2008<br />
| url = [http://www.reddit.com/ www.reddit.com]<br />
| commercial = Yes<br />
| type = News aggregation site<br />
| registration = Free<br />
| owner = [[Condé Nast Publications]]<br />
| author = Steve Huffman and Alexis Ohanian<br />
| launch date = 2005<br />
| revenue = <br />
}}<br />
'''reddit''' is a [[social news]] website, owned by [[Condé Nast Publications|Conde Nast Digital]], a subsidiary of [[Advance_Publications|Advance Magazine Publishers Inc]], on which users can post links to content on the Internet. Other users may then vote the posted links "up" or "down". Voting determines links' prominence on reddit, with the most successful links reaching the home page. In addition, users can comment on the posted links. Furthermore, one does not need to submit an outside source as an article but can rather post a "self" post that contains original text from the submitter that can be anything.<br />
<br />
== Overview ==<br />
[[File:Reddit Mr. Splashy Pants.png|thumb|left|[[Mister Splashy Pants]] logo used on November 27, 2007]]<br />
The site has discussion areas in which users may discuss the posted links and vote for or against others' comments. When there are enough votes against a given comment, it will not be displayed by default, although a reader can display it through a link or preference. Users who submit articles which other users like and subsequently "vote up" receive "karma" points as a reward for submitting articles those other users consider interesting.<br />
<br />
Reddit also includes topical sections called "reddits" (colloquially called "subreddits"), which focus on specific topics, such as [[politics]], [[atheism]], [[programming]], "[[not safe for work]]", or [[science]]. There are hundreds of reddits and users are encouraged to create their own.<ref>[http://reddit.com/reddits reddits<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref><br />
<br />
The Reddit logo changes for various holidays and often for no reason, paying homage to ''[[Star Wars]]'', classic video games, and [[geek]] culture in general. It often changes in response to major discussion subjects within the site or major news stories.<br />
<br />
== History ==<br />
<!-->[[Image:Steve Huffman.jpg|thumb|right|Steve Huffman]]<!--><br />
Reddit was founded by Steve Huffman and Alexis Ohanian in 2005, both 22-year-old graduates of the [[University of Virginia]].<ref>{{cite news | last = Adams | first = Richard | title = reddit.com | publisher = [[The Guardian]] | date = 2005-12-08 | url = http://technology.guardian.co.uk/innovations/story/0,,1660870,00.html | accessdate = 2006-12-23 }}</ref> It received its initial funding from [[Y Combinator]]. The team expanded to include Christopher Slowe and [[Aaron Swartz]] in 2005. Aaron Swartz joined in late January 2006 as part of the company's merger with Swartz's Infogami.<ref>{{cite web | url= http://infogami.com/blog/introduction|title= Introducing Infogami<br />
|last=Swartz | first=Aaron | authorlink=Aaron Swartz| publisher=Infogami | date=February 27, 2006 | accessdate= 2007-01-06}}</ref> The combined company was known as "not a bug." [[Condé Nast Publications]], owner of ''[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]]'', acquired "not a bug" on October 31, 2006.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://www.techcrunch.com/2006/10/31/breaking-news-conde-nastwired-acquires-reddit/ | title = Breaking news: Condé Nast/Wired Acquires reddit | publisher = [[TechCrunch]]|date=October 31, 2006|accessdate= 2007-01-06 | last=Arrington | first=Michael | authorlink=Michael Arrington}}</ref><br />
<br />
On June 18, 2008, Reddit became an [[open source]] project.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2008/06/reddit-goes-open-source.html Open source announcement on the Reddit blog]</ref> With the exception of the anti-spam/cheating portions, all of the code and libraries written for Reddit became freely available on another website dubbed "Fixxit."<ref>http://code.reddit.com/</ref><br />
<br />
Reddit was named by Ohanian while browsing the [[University of Virginia]]'s Alderman Library.<ref>[http://reddit.blogspot.com/2008/02/reddit-nostalgia-whence-came-name.html "reddit nostalgia: whence came the name?," on Alexis Ohanian's blog]</ref> It is pronounced, "read it", as in the question, "Have you read it?"<br />
<br />
In January 2010, Reddit users raised over $134,000 for the victims of the [[2010 Haiti earthquake]].<ref>http://dri.convio.net/site/TR?pg=fund&fr_id=1030&pxfid=1511</ref><br />
<br />
== Technology ==<br />
Reddit was originally written in [[Common Lisp]] but was rewritten in [[Python (programming language)|Python]] in 2005.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2005/12/on-lisp.html "On lisp" blog post by Reddit founder "spez," detailing the reasons for switching to python from lisp]</ref> The reasons given for the switch were faster performance, wider access to [[Library (computing)|code libraries]], and greater development flexibility. The Python web framework that former reddit employee [[Aaron Swartz]] developed to run the site, ''web.py'', is now available as an open-source project.<ref>[http://webpy.org/ Official web.py site]</ref><br />
<br />
Reddit currently uses [[Pylons]] as its web framework.<ref>[http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/pylonscommunity/Sites+Using+Pylons Sites Using Pylons] - Pylons Community&nbsp;— PythonWeb</ref> The site was hosted on several [[Linux]] [[web server|servers]] running [[lighttpd]], HaProxy, and paster;<ref>[http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.reddit.com Netcraft report on reddit.com]</ref> however, as of November of 2009, Reddit has decommissioned their physical servers and migrated to [[Amazon Web Services]].<ref>http://blog.reddit.com/2009/11/moving-to-cloud.html Moving to the cloud on blog.reddit.com</ref><br />
In early 2009, Reddit started using [[jQuery]].<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2009/01/reddit-now-powered-by-jquery.html what's new on reddit: reddit now powered by jQuery] - Posted by Chris Slowe (keysersosa) (Friday, January 30, 2009) - blog.reddit</ref><br />
<br />
On February 18, 2009, Reddit released an [[iPhone]] Application for $1.99, which allows users to more easily navigate the site while using the iPhone. There were also several other reddit iPhone Applications made available, prior to the official application's release date. The first application was named "Satellite", which was released in November of 2008. It originally cost $4.99 but its price was later reduced to just $.99 after the release of the official Reddit application.<ref>[http://blog.reddit.com/2009/01/i-read-it-on-ireddit-official-reddit.html Shortly after that was released, the guys at 3Cube Technologies released Satellite at <s>$4.99</s> now just $.99.] - Posted by alexis kn0thing at 16:43 on (February 14th, 2009)</ref> The second application, released in December of 2008 was called "Open Source Reddit", differing from Satellite by being free of charge. In June, 2010 the Reddit staff revamped the mobile site located at i.reddit.com. The new site features rewritten [[CSS]], a new color scheme, and a multitude of improvements.<ref>http://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/cd9ju/weve_revamped_reddits_mobile_site_let_us_know/</ref><br />
<br />
== See also ==<br />
* [[Diigo]]<br />
* [[Delicious (website)]]<br />
* [[Digg]]<br />
* [[Fark]]<br />
* [[StumbleUpon]]<br />
* [[Slashdot]]<br />
* [[Social bookmarking]]<br />
* [[Web 2.0]]<br />
* [[Imgur]]<br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
{{reflist}}<br />
<br />
== External links ==<br />
{{wikinews|Helen Thomas probes White House on torture; online community sends flowers}}<br />
*[http://reddit.com/ reddit]<br />
*[http://code.reddit.com/ Fixxit (reddit's code repository)]<br />
*[http://redditall.com/ think you've reddit all?] - Alexis' [[blog]] (the logo artist).<br />
*[http://redditjobs.com/ reddit's job board]<br />
<br />
{{Advance Publications}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:News websites]]<br />
[[Category:Social bookmarking]]<br />
[[Category:Free software programmed in Python]]<br />
[[Category:News aggregators]]<br />
<br />
[[ar:ريديت]]<br />
[[es:Reddit]]<br />
[[fr:Reddit]]<br />
[[it:Reddit]]<br />
[[ja:Reddit]]<br />
[[no:Reddit]]<br />
[[pl:Reddit]]<br />
[[pt:Reddit]]<br />
[[ru:Reddit]]<br />
[[simple:Reddit]]<br />
[[fi:Reddit]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falun_Gong&diff=369481979Falun Gong2010-06-22T02:55:00Z<p>Hmm...: /* Outside China */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Chinese|title=Falun Gong|t=法輪功|s=法轮功<br />
|l='''Practice of the Wheel of Law'''<br />
|p= Fǎlún Gōng|j=fat2 lun4 gung1|<br />
altname=Falun Dafa|t2=法輪大法|s2=法轮大法<br />
|l2='''Great Law of the Wheel of Law'''<br />
|p2= Fǎlún Dàfǎ|j2=fat2 lun4 daai6 fat2<br />
|pic=Falun Gong Logo.svg<br />
|piccap=The Falun Dafa emblem<br />
|picsize=150px|Image size=150px<br />
piccap2=Falun, the emblem of Falun Dafa}}<br />
<br />
{{POV-check|date=May 2010}}<br />
<br />
'''Falun Gong''' (alternatively '''Falun Dafa''') is a system of beliefs and practices founded in China by [[Li Hongzhi]] in 1992. The practice emerged at the end of China's "''[[qigong]]'' boom", a period of growth and popularity of similar practices. Falun Gong differs from other ''qigong'' schools in its absence of daily rituals of worship,<ref name="Haar">{{cite web|url=http://website.leidenuniv.nl/~haarbjter/faluntext3.html|title=Evaluation and Further References|last=Haar|first=Barendter|accessdate=21 December 2009|quote=One difference between the Falun Gong and traditional groups is the absence of rituals of daily worship or rites of passage (...) Striking differences are also the degree of self-consciousness about outside critics already preceding the persecutions from April 1999 onwards}}</ref> its greater emphasis on morality, and the theological nature of its teachings.<ref name="radio">''[http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s283930.htm Falun Gong: Cult or Culture?]'', ABC Radio National, 22 April 2001. Quote: "''That the teacher, the leader, is regarded as being greater and more powerful than normal human beings; that the things that that teacher says are taken as truer and more real and more powerful than anything else, anybody else says, and that there is a well developed, I would call theology, but possibly doctrine, that includes morality, practice and a whole complete world view. So it looks like a religion to me.''"</ref><ref name=smith>{{cite news | title=THE WORLD: Rooting Out Falun Gong; China Makes War on Mysticism | author=Craig S. Smith | work=[[New York Times]] | date=30 April 2000 | url=http://www.nytimes.com/2000/04/30/weekinreview/the-world-rooting-out-falun-gong-china-makes-war-on-mysticism.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all }}</ref> Western academics have described Falun Gong as a "spiritual movement" based on the teachings of its founder<ref name="Jude Howell">{{cite book |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=H80YZqSj7EEC&pg=PP1&dq=Governance+in+China+~+Jude+Howell#v=onepage&q=&f=false |title=Governance in China |editor= Jude Howell |first=Clemens Stubbe |last=Østergaard |pages=214–223 (Governance and the Political Challenge of Falun Gong) |year=2003 |isbn=0742519880 |publisher=Rowman & Littlefield Publishers |location=Lanham, Md.}}</ref>, a "cultivation system" in the tradition of Chinese antiquity,<ref name="pennyharrold" /> and sometimes a [[new religious movement]] (NRM). Falun Gong places a heavy emphasis on morality in its central tenets - Truthfulness, Compassion, and Forbearance ({{zh|c=真、善、忍}}).<ref>Frank, Adam. (2004) Falun Gong and the threat of history. in Gods, guns, and globalization: religious radicalism and international political economy edited by Mary Ann Tétreault, Robert Allen Denemark, Lynne Rienner Publishers, 2004, ISBN 1588262537, pp 241-243</ref> Its teachings are derived from [[qigong]], [[Buddhist]] and [[Taoist]] concepts.<ref name="pennyharrold">Benjamin Penny, [http://www.nla.gov.au/grants/haroldwhite/papers/bpenny.html The Past, Present, and Future of Falun Gong], 2001, accessed 16/3/08, Quote: "''The best way to describe Falun Gong is as a cultivation system. Cultivation systems have been a feature of Chinese life for at least 2 500 years'' //"</ref><ref name="CRS2006"/><ref name="isreligion">[http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/052305/Ownby.php Statement of Professor David Ownby], ''Unofficial Religions in China: Beyond the Party's Rules'', 2005. Quote: "''The history of Falun Gong, and of the larger qigong movement from which Falun Gong emerged (...) The Falun Gong emerged in 1992, toward the end of the boom, and was in fact one of the least flamboyant of the schools of qigong''"</ref><ref name=Ownbyming>Ownby, David, "A History for Falun Gong: Popular Religion and the Chinese State Since the Ming Dynasty", Nova Religio, Vol., pp. 223-243</ref><br />
<br />
The movement grew rapidly in China between 1992 and 1999. Government sources indicated that there may have been as many as 70 million Falun Gong practitioners in the country by 1998.<ref name="70million">{{cite news |work=New York Times |url=http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9507E7D9173DF934A15757C0A96F958260 |title=Notoriety Now for Movement's Leader |author=Joseph Kahn |date=27 April 1999}}</ref> In the mid-1990s the proliferation of ''qigong'' practices generated attention from Chinese journalists, skeptics, and scientists; reports critical of ''qigong'' appeared in the Chinese media, some of which were aimed at Falun Gong.<ref name="Haar"/><ref name="Ownby-2008-p15">Ownby 2008, p. 15</ref><ref name="Rahn2002">Rahn, Patsy (2002) “The Chemistry of a Conflict: The Chinese Government and the Falun Gong” in ''Terrorism and Political Violence'', Winter, 2002, Vol 14, No. 4 (London: Frank Cass Publishers)[http://www.culticstudiesreview.org/csr_member/mem_articles/rahn_patsy_crs0202m.htm reprinted in Cultic Studies Review, subscription required]</ref> Falun Gong practitioners responded to critics through peaceful protests, attempting to address perceived unfair media treatment.<ref name="Ownby-2008-p15" /> In April 1999, after one such protest in Tianjin, some 10,000 practitioners gathered at [[Zhongnanhai]], the residence compound of China's leaders, in silent protest, while representatives reportedly negotiated with CCP officials.<ref>Controversial New Religions, The Falun Gong: A New Religious Movement in Post-Mao China, David Ownby P.195 ISBN 0195156838</ref><ref name="ReidG">Reid, Graham (29 Apr-5 May 2006) [http://www.listener.co.nz/issue/3442/features/5972/nothing_left_to_lose.html "Nothing left to lose"], ''New Zealand Listener''. Retrieved 6 July 2006.</ref><ref name="Schechter">Danny Schechter, ''Falun Gong's Challenge to China: Spiritual Practice or Evil Cult?'', Akashic books: New York, 2001, p. 66</ref><br />
<br />
In July 1999, the [[Chinese Communist Party]] (CCP) banned Falun Gong and began a nationwide crackdown and multifaceted propaganda campaign against the practice; in October 1999 it declared Falun Gong an "evil cult."<ref name="CRS2006">{{cite web | url = http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/67820.pdf | title = CRS Report for Congress: China and Falun Gong | publisher = [[Congressional Research Service]] | author = Thomas Lum | date = 25 May 2006|format=PDF}}</ref><ref name="Amnesty1">{{cite web|url=http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engASA170112000 |title=China: The crackdown on Falun Gong and other so-called "heretical organizations"|date=23 March 2000|publisher=Amnesty International|accessdate=17 March 2010}}</ref><ref name="wildgrass">Johnson, Ian, ''Wild Grass: three portraits of change in modern china'', Vintage (8 March 2005)</ref> Human rights groups report that Falun Gong practitioners in China are subject to a wide range of [[human rights]] abuses.<ref name = "UN.org-2004">United Nations (4 February 2004) [http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2004/hrcn1073.doc.htm Press Release HR/CN/1073]. Retrieved 12 September 2006.</ref> Falun Gong practitioners continue to levy charges against the CCP, lobbying Western governments and handing out information about the ill-treatment of practitioners, highlighting arbitrary arrests and imprisonment, [[Organ harvesting in the People's Republic of China|organ harvesting]], forced labor, and torture at the hands of the Chinese security forces.<ref name=sunnygalli>Sunny Y. Lu, MD, PhD, and Viviana B. Galli, MD, “Psychiatric Abuse of Falun Gong Practitioners in China”, ''J Am Acad Psychiatry Law'', 30:126–30, 2002</ref><ref name=munro2002>Robin J. Munro, "Judicial Psychiatry in China and its Political Abuses", ''Columbia Journal of Asian Law'', [[Columbia University]], Volume 14, Number 1, Fall 2000, p 114</ref><ref name=bejesky/> Falun Gong practitioners have founded media outlets (the [[Epoch Times]] and [[New Tang Dynasty Television]]), to publicize their cause and criticize the Chinese government, and the group has emerged as a prominent voice opposing the CCP.<ref>{{cite news | url= http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119508926438693540.html | title = Wall Street Journal: Chinese dissidents take on Beijing via Media Empire | date = 15 November 2007 | author=Chen, Kathy | work = Wall Street Journal |accessdate= 21 December 2009 }}</ref><br />
<br />
==Beliefs and teachings==<br />
{{Main|Teachings of Falun Gong}}<br />
[[File:Falun Dafa the fifth exercise, meditation7.jpg|left|thumb|250px|Practising the fifth exercise of Falun Dafa in Thailand.]]<br />
<br />
Falun Gong emerged towards the end of the rapid proliferation of ''qigong'' practices in China, often called the "''[[qigong]]'' boom." ''Qigong'' refers to a wide variety of traditional "cultivation" practices that involve slow movement and/or regulated breathing. Practice may be for the purpose of healing or health maintenance, or in martial arts or spiritual pursuits. In contrast to attitudes in the West, where ''qigong'' may be construed as a subjective, New Age-style concept incapable of scientific proof, a segment of China's scientific establishment regarded ''[[qi]]'' as a scientific concept. Controlled experiments by the Chinese Academy of Sciences in the late 1970s and early 1980s "proved" that qi, when emitted by a qigong expert, "actually constitutes measurable infrared electromagnetic waves and causes chemical changes in static water through mental concentration."<ref>David Aikman, American Spectator, March 2000, Vol. 33, Issue 2</ref><br />
<br />
Falun Gong was introduced to the public by [[Li Hongzhi]] ({{lang|zh|李洪志}}) in [[Changchun]], China, in 1992. Its teachings cover spiritual, religious, mystical and metaphysical topics, placing emphasis on morality and virtue (''de''). The practice also promises health benefits to the practitioner. The three central tenets of the Falun Gong system are 'Truthfulness' ({{lang|zh|眞}}), 'Compassion' ({{lang|zh|善}}), and 'Forbearance' ({{lang|zh|忍}}). Together, these three ideas are regarded as the fundamental characteristics of the cosmos. In the process of "cultivation," practitioners are supposed to assimilate themselves to these qualities by letting go of "attachments and notions," thus returning to the "original, true self." In ''Zhuan Falun'' ({{lang|zh|轉法輪}}),<ref name=ZF>Zhuan Falun, [http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/zflus.html Zhuan Falun], accessed 31/12/07</ref> the foundational text published in late 1994, Li Hongzhi says that "As a practitioner, if you assimilate yourself to this characteristic [sic], you are one that has attained the [[Tao]]."<br />
<br />
''Falun Gong'' is an introductory book that discusses ''qigong'', introduces the aforementioned principles, and provides illustrations and explanations of the exercises and meditation. The main body of teachings is articulated in the core book ''Zhuan Falun''. According to the texts, Falun Gong (or Falun Dafa) is a "complete system of mind-body cultivation practice" ({{lang|zh|修煉}} ''xiulian'').<ref name=C1>Characteristics of Falun Dafa, [http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/zflus.html Zhuan Falun], accessed 31/12/07</ref><br />
<br />
Falun Gong is a multifaceted and totalizing movement that means different things to different people, ranging from a set of physical exercises and a praxis of transformation to a moral philosophy and a new knowledge system, according to Zhao Yuezhi, a communications professor. It exhibits quasi-religious, fundamentalist, and conservative sensibilities, articulating a mixture of premodern, modern, and postmodern thought. Falun Gong has also been described as a Buddhist revival movement "with all that entails: passion, talk of miracles... individualism, and a reflexive mistrust of establishments and outside agendas."<ref name=gutmann_carrytorch/> Falun Gong practitioners have established a "resistance identity"—one that stands against prevailing pursuits of wealth, power, scientific rationality, and "the entire value system associated with the project of modernization."<ref name="zhao">{{cite book |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=tiFY59xGHBkC&pg=PA209&dq=Falun+Gong,+Identity,+and+the+Struggle+over+Meaning+Inside+and+Outside+China&client=firefox-a&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Falun%20Gong%2C%20Identity%2C%20and%20the%20Struggle%20over%20Meaning%20Inside%20and%20Outside%20China&f=false |last=Zhao |first=Yuezhi |title=Falun Gong, Identity, and the Struggle over Meaning Inside and Outside China |pages=209–223 in Contesting Media Power: Alternative Media in a Networked World, ed. Nick Couldry and James Curran |publisher=Rowman & Littlefield publishers, inc. |year=2003 |quote=the most dramatic episode in the contestation over media power in the Chinese language symbolic universe.}}</ref><br />
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At the same time, Falun Gong presents itself as a virtuous form of self-cultivation which draws on Oriental mysticism and traditional Chinese medicine, criticizes the purportedly self-imposed limits of modern science, and views traditional Chinese science as an entirely different, yet equally valid knowledge system.<ref name="zhao"/> Some of Li's more outlandish claims, and his statements indicative of a conservative morality, have been a cause of some controversy for Falun Gong. (See [[Falun_Gong#Controversies|controversies]]).<br />
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Traditional Chinese cultural thought and modernity are two focuses of Li Hongzhi's teachings.<ref>Kai-Ti Chou, ''Contemporary Religious Movements in Taiwan: Rhetorics of Persuasion.'' Edwin Mellen Press, 2008. ISBN 0-7734-5241-9. pp. 186-187 and pp. 152-165</ref> Falun Gong echoes traditional Chinese beliefs that humans are connected to the universe through mind and body, and Li seeks to challenge "conventional mentalities", attempting to unveil myths of the universe, time-space, and the human body.<ref>Schechter 2001, pp. 47-50</ref><br />
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The Falun Gong teachings use numerous untranslated Chinese religious and philosophical terms, and make frequent allusion to characters and incidents in Chinese folk literature and concepts drawn from Chinese popular religion.<ref name="Lowe 2003, pp. 275-276">Lowe 2003, pp. 275-276</ref> Li's assumptions about the metaphysical structure of reality are also different from those of most Westerners, and conflict with a wide range of scientific and materialist viewpoints.<ref name="Lowe 2003, pp. 275-276"/> This, coupled with the literal translation style of the texts, which imitate the tone and cadences of Li’s colloquial Chinese speech, make Falun Gong scriptures difficult to approach for Westerners.<ref name="Lowe 2003, pp. 275-276"/><br />
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Falun Gong represents an indigenous spiritual, moral, and health movement opposite to "Marxism with Chinese characteristics," according to Sumner B. Twiss.<ref name="twiss">Twiss, Sumner B. "Religious Intolerance in Contemporary China, Including the Curious Case of Falun Gong" in The World's Religions After September 11 / edited by Arvind Sharma, Greenwood Publishing, 2009 pp. 227-240</ref><br />
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While Li discusses millennial themes, Falun Gong's organizational structure works against totalistic control, with no hierarchy in place to enforce orthodoxy and little or no emphasis on dogmatic discipline. There is no membership, and practitioners are free to participate as much or as little as they like; the only thing emphasized is the need for strict moral behavior, according to Craig Burgdoff, a professor of religious studies. He expresses concerns over Li Hongzhi's totalizing discourse, but says this is tempered by having found "practitioners to be engaged seriously in a highly disciplined spiritual and ethical practice."<ref name=burgdoff>Burgdoff, Craig A. How Falun Gong Practice Undermines Li Hongzhi's Totalistic Rhetoric. Nova Religio Apr 2003, Vol. 6, No. 2 332–347</ref><br />
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==History in China==<br />
{{Main|History of Falun Gong}}<br />
[[Image:UNGenevaFalunDafaLecture.jpg|thumb|right|175px|Li Hongzhi lectures on Falun Dafa at the [[United Nations General Assembly|UN General Assembly Hall]], [[Geneva]], 1998]]<br />
[[Li Hongzhi]] introduced Falun Gong to the public in May 1992, in [[Changchun]], [[Jilin]] Province.<ref>[http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2004/10/8/53286.html A Chronicle of Major Historic Events during the Introduction of Falun Dafa to the Public]</ref> Early versions of ''Zhuan Falun'' stated that the system was tested extensively in the years prior to its introduction, and included a hagiographic spiritual biography of Li Hongzhi which was later withdrawn from circulation.<br />
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Li Hongzhi claims that he was taught ways of "cultivation practice" by several masters of the [[Taoism|Dao]] and [[Buddhism|Buddhist]] traditions, including Quan Jue, the 10th Heir to the Great Law of the Buddha School, a Taoist master from age eight to twelve, and a master of the Great Way School with the Taoist alias of ''True Taoist'' from the [[Changbai Mountains]]. In his religious biography, which draws on and is considered a contemporary rewriting of an ancient tradition,<ref>Penny 2003, p. 653</ref> Li is claimed able to perform a variety of supernatural feats, including invisibility, levitation, and weather modification.<ref name=Zfl>[http://www.trinity.edu/rnadeau/Chinese%20Religions/Li%20Hongzhi.htm A Short Biography of Mr. Li Hongzhi], Chinese Law and Government v. 32 no. 6 (Nov./Dec. 1999) p. 14-23 ISSN: 0009-4609</ref> During its anti-Falun Gong propaganda campaign the Chinese authorities countered these claims, asserting that Li was merely a former army trumpet player and grain clerk at the Changchun Cereals Company,<ref name=birthdate>[http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/english/199907/23/enc_19990723001031_Opinion.html Why Li Hongzhi changes his birthdate], People's Daily, 23 July 1999</ref> having plagiarised Falun Gong from existing qigong systems.<ref name="Penny2005">Penny, Benjamin, “The Falun Gong, Buddhism and ‘Buddhist qigong’”, ''Asian Studies Review'' March 2005, Vol 29, pp.35-46.</ref><!--quote: p651 "The attacks on Li’s biography by the Chinese government focused on three specific points… The final specific attack related to the development of the falun gong exercises. The press release claims that Li made up falun gong on the basis of two other qigong systems he had learnt– chanmigong and jiugong bagua gong" --><br />
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Like many ''qigong'' masters at the time, Li toured major cities in China from 1992 to 1994 to teach the practice; he was granted a number of awards by Chinese governmental organizations.<ref name="Zfl"/><ref name=Fellow>The Past, Present and Future of Falun Gong, A lecture by Harold White Fellow, Benjamin Penny, at the National Library of Australia, Canberra, 2001, [http://www.nla.gov.au/grants/haroldwhite/papers/bpenny.html], accessed 31/12/07</ref><ref>{{cite news| url = http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/special_column/recognition.html | title = Governmental Awards and Recognition of Falun Dafa |accessdate = 1 August 2006 | publisher = Falun Dafa ClearWisdom.net}}</ref> According to David Ownby, Professor of History and Director of the Center for East Asian Studies at the Université de Montréal, neither Li nor Falun Gong were particularly controversial in the beginning;<ref name="Ownbyworld">David Ownby, "The Falun Gong in the New World," European Journal of East Asian Studies, Sep2003, Vol. 2 Issue 2, p 306</ref> Li became an "instant star of the qigong movement," and the movement enjoyed success and rapid growth.<ref name="Ownbyworld"/><br />
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[[Image:PrePersecutionFalunDafaPracticeinChina.jpg|thumb|left|230px|Group practice in China before the events of July 1999]]<br />
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Li made his lectures more widely accessible and affordable in later years, charging less than competing ''qigong'' systems for lectures, tapes, and books.<ref name="Schechter"/> On 4 January 1995, ''[[Teachings of Falun Gong#Zhuan Falun, the Main Book of Falun Gong|Zhuan Falun]]'', the main book on Falun Gong, was published and became a best-seller in China.<ref name="Schechter"/> In the face of Falun Gong's rise in popularity, a large part of which was attributed to its low cost, competing ''qigong'' masters accused Li of unfair business practices. According to Schechter, the ''qigong'' society under which Li and other ''qigong'' masters belonged asked Li to hike his tuition, but Li refused.<ref name="Schechter"/> By 1995, Falun Gong had established, according to Lowe, a clear advantage over alternative ''qigong'' groups in its emphasis on morality and life philosophies, low cost, and its benefits to practitioners' health, and rapidly spread via word-of-mouth.<ref name=Lowe>Scott Lowe, Chinese and International Contexts for the Rise of Falun Gong, Nova Religio April 2003, Vol. 6, No. 2</ref> Its rapid growth within China was also related to family ties and community relationships,<ref name=Lowe/> attracting a wide range of adherents from all walks of life - including numerous members of the Chinese Communist Party.<ref name=lum>Thomas Lum, [http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/RL33437.pdf Congressional Research Report #RL33437], Congressional Research Service, 11 August 2006</ref><br />
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===Criticism and response===<br />
The rapid rise and influence of Falun Gong received little journalistic attention until mid-1996. At that time articles critical of Falun Gong began to appear, a sign that China’s media and ideological establishment had begun considering Falun Gong’s influence on society.<ref name="zhao"/> On June 17, 1996, a week after Zhuan Falun Volume II was listed the no.10 best selling at a Beijing book market, the ''Guangming Daily'', an influential national newspaper, published a polemic against Falun Gong.<ref name=palmer.fever249>Palmer (2007), p 249</ref><ref name=Ownbyfuture>David Ownby, Falun Gong and the Future of China (2008) Oxford University Press</ref> The author wrote that the history of humanity is a "struggle between science and superstition," and called on Chinese publishers not to print "pseudo-scientific books of the swindlers."<ref name=palmer.fever249>Palmer (2007), p 249</ref> The article cited Zhuan Falun as an example of the rising number of publications ridden with "feudal superstition" (''fengjian mixin'') and "pseudoscience" (''wei kexue'').<ref name="Jude Howell" />{{rp|215}} The article set off a wave of press criticism, with twenty major newspapers also issuing criticisms of Falun Gong. Soon after, on July 24, the Central Propaganda Department banned all publication of Falun Gong books - though the ban was not enforced consistently.<ref name=palmer.fever249>Palmer (2007), p 249</ref><br />
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The events were an important challenge to Falun Gong, which practitioners did not take lightly.<ref>Ownby 2008, p. 168</ref> Thousands of Falun Gong followers wrote to ''Guangming Daily'' and to the CQRS to complain against the measures, claiming that they violated [[Hu Yaobang]]'s 1982 'Triple No' directive.<ref name=palmer.fever249>Palmer (2007), p. 249</ref> Li made statements that activism to defend Falun Gong was an essential aspect of Dafa cultivation, and, according to David Palmer, adjunct professor of anthropology and religious studies at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, "would separate the false disciples from the true ones."<ref name=palmer.fever249>Palmer (2007), pg249f</ref> Until this juncture, Falun Gong had successfully negotiated the space between science and native tradition in the public representation of its teachings, avoiding any suggestion of superstition.<ref name=jensen>Edward L. Davis, Encyclopedia of contemporary Chinese culture, Falun Gong (by Lionel M. Jensen), pp. 251-263</ref><br />
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Falun Gong was not the only target of the domestic media criticism, nor the only group to protest, but theirs was the most mobilised and steadfast response.<ref name="zhao"/> Many of Falun Gong's attempts for positive, or non-negative media portrayal were successful, resulting in the retraction of several newspaper stories critical of Falun Gong. This contributed to practitioners' belief that the media claims against them were false or exaggerated, and that their stance was justified.<ref>Ownby 2008, p. 170</ref> Falun Gong books remained officially proscribed, however.<br />
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In June 1998, Tianjin professor [[He Zuoxiu]], an outspoken critic of qigong, appeared on a talk show on [[Beijing Television]] and openly disparaged ''qigong'' groups, making particular mention of Falun Gong.<ref name=smith2>{{cite web |first=Craig S. |last=Smith |title=Revered by Millions, a Potent Mystic Rattles China's Communist Leaders |page=1 |work=Wall Street Journal |date=26 April 1999 |url=http://www.tibet.ca/en/newsroom/wtn/archive/old?y=1999&m=5&p=5_3 }}c/o third party link</ref> Falun Gong practitioners responded with peaceful protests, which was considered audacious under the circumstances,<ref name=Ownby2008 /> and lobbying of the station. The reporter responsible for the program was reportedly fired, and a program favorable to Falun Gong was aired several days later.<ref name="Jude Howell" />{{rp|215}}<ref name="spie">{{cite book|last=Human Right Watch|coauthors=M Spiegel|title=Dangerous meditation: China's campaign against Falungong|location=New York|year=2001|page=9|accessdate=15 December 2009}}</ref> Falun Gong practitioners also mounted peaceful demonstrations at 14 other media outlets.<ref name="Jude Howell" /> The Beijing Television incident resulted in directives from authorities to cease publishing content critical of Falun Gong to "ensure stability" in the lead-up to the ten-year anniversary of the [[Tiananmen Square protests of 1989]].<ref name=smith2/><br />
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===Tianjin and Zhongnanhai protests===<br />
[[Image:April25Zhognanhai.jpg|thumb|right|200px|Practitioners of Falun Gong protest peacefully outside the [[Zhongnanhai]] compound.]]<br />
In April 1999, He Zuoxiu published a short editorial in the [[Tianjin Normal University]]'s ''Youth Reader'' magazine. Elaborating on what he had said months earlier on Beijing Television, he again attacked ''qigong'' groups that purport to give people supernatural powers and heal disease.<ref name=hezuoxiu>{{cite web|url=http://www.cnfxj.org/Html/lgxd/2007-6/24/165513641.html#|title=I do not agree with Youth Practicing ''Qigong'' (我不赞成青少年炼气功)|author=[[He Zuoxiu]]|language=Chinese|year=1999}}</ref> He said that he was particularly opposed to ''qigong'' practice among youth, that "qigong-related trance and delusions" could affect students for a lifetime, and made special mention of a case where a student of his, allegedly having practiced Falun Gong, refused to "talk, eat, sleep, or drink" as a result. He compared Falun Gong practitioners to the ignorant and superstitious [[Boxer Rebellion|Boxers]].<ref name=hezuoxiu/> Falun Gong practitioners claimed the case that He cited as evidence of the dangers of Falun Gong was erroneous since the individual was not a practitioner,<ref>Ownby (2008), p. 169</ref> or otherwise "highly offensive."<ref name=palmer.fever267/> He's article and the response to it marked the beginning of the dramatic public struggle between Falun Gong practitioners and the Chinese state over the legitimacy of Falun Gong practice.<ref name=conflictman>{{cite book|coauthors=Guo-Ming Chen, Ringo Ma|title=Chinese conflict management and resolution|publisher=Greenwood Publishing Group|year=2002|isbn=9781567506433|url=http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hJu-eW7aYFUC&q=Falun+Gong&source=gbs_word_cloud_r&cad=3#v=snippet&q=Falun%20Gong&f=false}}</ref> Because the Falun Gong had no access to mass media, practitioners resorted to other symbolic forms, such as protests, to appeal to government officials and the public.<ref name=conflictman/><br />
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After the article was published practitioners gathered to protest in meditation posture outside the editorial office of the publication in Tianjin,<ref name=palmer.fever267 /> and sent petitions and appeals to the Tianjin party headquarters and municipal government for the retraction of He's piece. According to Falun Gong sources, the magazine editors initially agreed to publish a "correction," but then changed their attitude and refused to do so.<ref name=palmer.fever267/> Within days those gathered had swelled to the thousands. Three hundred riot police were sent to disperse the crowd, some of the practitioners were beaten, and forty-five arrested.<ref name="Schechter"/><ref name=palmer.fever267/><ref name="Ownby 2008, p. 171">Ownby (2008), p. 171</ref> Hundreds then marched to the munipical government to demand their liberation.<ref name="Schechter"/><ref name=palmer.fever267>Palmer (2007), p. 267</ref> For Palmer, the Tianjin protest was another sign of Falun Gong's "militancy"; for Gutmann, it was because "refuting lies" is a central part of Falun Gong's moral system.<ref name=gutmannfuyou>Ethan Gutmann, An Occurrence on Fuyou Street, National Review 07/13/2009</ref> They were told that the police action had been carried out on orders from the Ministry of Public Security,<ref name=palmer.fever267/> and that those arrested could only be released with the approval of Beijing authorities.<ref name="Ownby 2008, p. 171"/><ref>Schechter (2000), p.69</ref><br />
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On 25 April, around ten thousand Falun Gong practitioners lined the streets near [[Zhongnanhai]], the residence compound of China's leaders, in silent protest. It was Falun Gong practitioners' attempt to seek redress from the leadership of the country by going to them and, "albeit very quietly and politely, making it clear that they would not be treated so shabbily."<ref name="pennyharrold" /> Many Falun Gong practitioners were party members, who openly lobbied for the group. While Falun Gong's pre-1999 political involvement is difficult to verify, no other disenfranchised group has ever staged a mass protest near the [[Zhongnanhai]] compound in PRC history. The incident raised questions about the Party's control over the country.<ref name=lestz>Michael Lestz, [http://www.trincoll.edu/depts/csrpl/RINVol2No3/Falun%20Gong.htm Why Smash the Falun Gong?], Religion in the News, Fall 1999, Vol. 2, No. 3, Trinity College, Hartford, Connecticut</ref><br />
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A ''World Journal'' report suggested that certain high-level Party officials wanted to crack down on the practice for years, but lacked sufficient pretext until the protest at Zhongnanhai, which they claim was partly orchestrated by [[Luo Gan]], a long-time opponent of Falun Gong.<ref name = "Ching-Gong">Julia Ching, "The Falun Gong: Religious and Political Implications," American Asian Review, Vol. XIX, no. 4, Winter 2001, p 2</ref> There were also reportedly rifts in the [[Politburo of the Communist Party of China|Politburo]] at the time of the incident. Some reports indicate that Premier [[Zhu Rongji]] met with Falun Gong representatives and gave them satisfactory answers, but was criticized by General Secretary and President [[Jiang Zemin]] for being "too soft."<ref name=Schechter/> Jiang is held by Falun Gong to be personally responsible for the final decision:<ref name=peerman>Dean Peerman, [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_16_121/ai_n8702386/pg_4 China syndrome: the persecution of Falun Gong], Christian Century, 10 August 2004</ref><ref name=Saich>Tony Saich, ''Governance and Politics in China,'' Palgrave Macmillan; 2nd Ed edition (27 Feb 2004)</ref> Peerman cited reasons such as suspected personal jealousy of Li Hongzhi;<ref name=peerman/> Saich postulates at party leaders' anger at Falun Gong's widespread appeal, and ideological struggle.<ref name=Saich/><br />
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===The ban===<br />
On 20 July 1999, the Chinese government declared the Research Society of Falun Dafa and the Falun Gong organization under its control to be outlawed for having been "engaged in illegal activities, advocating superstition and spreading fallacies, hoodwinking people, inciting and creating disturbances, and jeopardizing social stability."<ref name=ban>[[Xinhua]], [http://english.people.com.cn/special/fagong/1999072200A101.html China Bans Falun Gong], [[People's Daily]], 22 July 1999</ref><br />
''Xinhua'' further declared that Falun Gong was a highly organised political group "opposed to the Communist Party of China and the central government, [that] preaches idealism, theism and feudal superstition."<ref name="english.peopledaily.com.cn">[http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/english/199908/02/enc_19990802001003_TopNews.html Xinhua Commentary on Political Nature of Falun Gong], People's Daily, August 2, 1999</ref> Xinhua also affirmed that "the so-called 'truth, kindness and forbearance' principle preached by Li has nothing in common with the socialist ethical and cultural progress we are striving to achieve."<ref name=hanson1999>Gayle M.B. Hanson, [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_31_15/ai_55553470 China Shaken by Mass Meditation - meditation movement Falun Gong], Insight on the News, 23 August 1999</ref><br />
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In response, Li Hongzhi declared that Falun Gong did not have any particular organization, nor any political objectives.<ref name=briefstate>Li Hongzhi, [http://clearwisdom.net/emh/download/publications/peacereport_statement.html A Brief Statement of Mine], 22 July 1999, accessed 31/12/07</ref><br />
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Yuezhi Zhao argues that a number of factors contributed to the souring of relations between Falun Gong and the Chinese state and media.<ref name="zhao" /> These included infighting between China’s qigong establishment and Falun Gong, speculation over blackmailing and lobbying by Li’s qigong opponents and "scientists-cum-ideologues with political motives and affiliations with competing central Party leaders," which caused the shift in the state’s position, and the struggles from mid-1996 to mid-1999 between Falun Gong, the mainstream media, and the Chinese power elite over the status and treatment of the movement.<ref name="zhao" /> While Falun Gong had some elite support, it was fundamentally at odds with official ideology, and there were individuals within the scientific, ideological, and political establishments predisposed to attacking Falun Gong in the media.<ref name="zhao" /><br />
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==Statewide suppression==<br />
{{Main|Persecution of Falun Gong}}<br />
In October 1999, four months after the ban, legislation was created to outlaw "[[heterodoxy|heterodox]] religions" and applied to Falun Gong retroactively.<ref name="Leung">Leung, Beatrice (2002) 'China and Falun Gong: Party and society relations in the modern era', Journal of Contemporary China, 11:33, 761 – 784</ref> Leung remarked that the effort was driven by large-scale propaganda through television, newspapers, radio and internet.<ref name="Leung" /> According to Johnson, the campaign against Falun Gong extended to many aspects of society, including the media apparatus, police force, military, education system, and workplaces.<ref name="wildgrass" /> An extra-constitutional body, the "[[6-10 Office]]" was created to "oversee the terror campaign."<ref name="Leung" /><ref name=morais>Morais, Richard C.[http://www.forbes.com/technology/2006/02/09/falun-gong-china_cz_rm_0209falungong.html "China's Fight With Falun Gong"], ''Forbes'', February 9, 2006. Retrieved July 7, 2006.</ref><ref name=CER>[http://www.cecc.gov/pages/annualRpt/annualRpt08/CECCannRpt2008.pdf Congressional-Executive commission on China, Annual Report 2008.]</ref><br />
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Within the first month of the crackdown, 300-400 articles attacking Falun Gong appeared in each of the main state-run papers, while primetime television replayed alleged exposés on the group, with no divergent views aired in the media.<ref>Leeshai Lemish, Media and New Religious Movements: The Case of Falun Gong, A paper presented at The 2009 CESNUR Conference, Salt Lake City, Utah, June 11–13, 2009</ref> Human Rights Watch (2002) noted that families and workplaces were urged to cooperate with the government's position on Falun Gong, while practitioners themselves were subject to severe coercive measures to have them recant.<ref name="dangerous">{{cite web|url=http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/CHINA0102.pdf|title=Dangerous Meditation: China's Campaign Against Falungong|last=Spiegel|first=Mickey|coauthors=Joseph Saunders, Sidney Jones, Malcolm Smart, Jim Ross|date=2002-01|publisher=Human Rights Watch|accessdate=17 March 2010}}</ref> Falun Gong practitioners were among those most harshly persecuted by the Chinese government in 2008, according to Amnesty International.<ref>Amnesty International, [http://thereport.amnesty.org/en/regions/asia-pacific/china State of the World's Human Rights report], China, 2009</ref><br />
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According to Human Rights Watch, China's leaders and ruling elite were far from unified in their support for the crackdown;<ref name="dangerous"/> though James Tong suggests there was no real resistance from the Politburo. In February 2001, in an attempt to show unity, the Communist Party held a Central Work Conference and discussed Falun Gong.<ref name="dangerous"/> President and party head Jiang Zemin insisted that all seven members of the [[Politburo Standing Committee]] "testify" on the need to eradicate Falun Gong in front of some 2,000 party cadres. Under Jiang's leadership, the crackdown on Falun Gong became part of the Chinese political ethos of "upholding stability" - much the same rhetoric employed by the party during [[1989 Tiananmen Square protests|Tiananmen in 1989]]. Jiang's message was echoed at the 2001 National People's Congress, where Premier [[Zhu Rongji]] made special mention of Falun Gong in his outline of China's tenth five-year plan, saying "we must continue our campaign against the Falun Gong cult," effectively tying Falun Gong's eradication to China's economic progress.<ref name="dangerous"/><br />
<br />
===Media campaign===<br />
[[Image:Communists-against-FLG-1.gif|thumb|left|150px|The poster reads "''Firmly support the decision of the Central Committee to deal with the illegal organization of 'Falun Gong'''"]]<br />
Since October 1999, three months after the Chinese government banned Falun Gong, it has repeatedly classified the movement as a ''xiejiao'', (translated as 'evil religion' or 'evil cult')<ref name=chan2004 /><ref name=irons2003>Irons, Edward. 2003 Falun Gong and the Sectarian Religion Paradigm Nova Religio: The Journal of Alternative and Emergent Religions, Volume 6, Issue 2, pages 244-62, ISSN 1092-6690</ref><ref name=unoctcult>Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, China: Situation of Falun Gong practitioners and treatment by state authorities (2001-2005), 31 October 2005, CHN100726.EX, available at: http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/docid/4b20f02623.html [accessed 16 January 2010]</ref><!-- quote:"In October 1999, Falun Gong was declared a "cult" by state media (AFP 28 Oct. 1999; BBC 28 Oct. 1999), and a resolution banning cults was passed by the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress" deeming it harmful to social stability in China.--> and anti-Falun Gong propaganda activities dominated the Chinese media during that time as the government justifed its actions, arguing that Falun Gong practice was dangerous, and damages people's physical and mental health<ref name=gunn>[http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/hrj/iss16/gunn.shtml#fn33 The Complexity of Religion and the Definition of “Religion” in International Law]</ref> like the [[Branch Davidian]]s and [[Aum Shinrikyo]].<ref name=gunn /> This strategy was vital in the government’s logic, because such reference to cults was supposed to justify the government's actions.<ref name=powerslee/> According to China scholars Daniel Wright and Joseph Fewsmith, for several months after Falun Gong was outlawed, China Central Television's evening news contained little but anti-Falun Gong rhetoric in which academics, former followers, and ordinary citizens spoke about how "the cult" cheats its followers, separates families, damages health, and hurts social stability. The government operation was "a study in all-out demonization," they write.<ref>Fewsmith, Joseph and Daniel B. Wright. "The promise of the Revolution: stories of fulfilment and struggle in China", 2003, Rowman and Littlefield. p. 156</ref><br />
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David Ownby and [[Ian Denis Johnson|Ian Johnson]] have argued that the Chinese state gave the cultic appellation to Falun Gong by borrowing arguments from [[Margaret Singer]] and the West's anti-cult movement to blunt the appeal of Falun Gong.<ref name="wildgrass"/><ref name=Ownbyfuture /> According to John Powers and Meg Y. M. Lee, because the Falun Gong was categorized in the popular perception as an "apolitical, qigong exercise club," it was not seen as a threat to the government. The most critical strategy in the Falun Gong suppression campaign, therefore, was to convince people to reclassify the Falun Gong into a number of "negatively charged religious labels,"<ref name=powerslee>Powers, John and Meg Y. M. Lee. “Dueling Media: Symbolic Conflict in China’s Falun Gong Suppression Campaign” in Chinese Conflict Management and Resolution, by Guo-Ming Chen and Ringo Ma (2001), Greenwood Publishing Group</ref> like “evil cult,” “sect,” or “superstition.” The group’s non-violent and relatively silent protests were reclassified as creating “social disturbances.” In this process of reclassification and relabelling, the government was attempting to tap into a "deep reservoir of negative feelings related to the historical role of quasi-religious cults as a destabilising force in Chinese political history."<ref name=powerslee/><br />
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Chinese media adopted three strands of rhetoric in attacking Falun Gong.<ref name="Frank 2004, p. 243">Frank 2004, p. 243</ref> The first adopted the language of past "anti" campaigns to argue that Falun Gong was a threat to order; the second adopted a rhetoric of science and modernity to argue that Falun Gong threatened progress; and a third used anti-Western rhetoric to argue that Li was a "dupe of the West." It was a "multipronged attack designed to appeal to a broad cross-section of Chinese society," according to Frank.<ref name="Frank 2004, p. 243"/><br />
<br />
According to Lu Xing, associate professor of Communications at [[DePaul University]], to simply label Falun Gong as "evil" was insufficient, because it only expressed opposition to Falun Gong without explaining why Falun Gong was "evil". State propaganda then used the appeal of scientific rationalism to argue that Falun Gong's worldview was in "complete opposition to science" and communism.<ref>Lu, Xing. (2004) ''Rhetoric of the Chinese Cultural Revolution: the impact on Chinese thought, culture, and communication,'' University of South Carolina Press, p. 164</ref><ref name="Lu 2004, p. 165">Lu (2004), p. 165</ref> The ''People's Daily'' asserted on 27 July 1999, that it "was a struggle between theism and atheism, superstition and science, idealism and materialism." A polarized depiction was created where the scientific worldview was legitimized as "moral and truthful," while the Falun Gong discourse was "evil and deceptive."<ref name="Lu 2004, p. 165"/><br />
<br />
On the eve of [[Chinese New Year]] on 23 January 2001, [[Tiananmen Square self-immolation incident|seven people attempted to set themselves ablaze]] at Tiananmen Square. The official Chinese press agency, [[Xinhua News Agency]], and other state media asserted that the [[Self-immolation|self-immolators]] were practitioners while the Falun Dafa Information Center disputed this,<ref name="FDI_PressRelease">{{cite web |url=http://www.clearwisdom.net/eng/2001/jan/23/vsf012301_3.html |title=Press Statement |publisher=Falun Dafa Information Center |publisher=Clearwisdom |date=23 January 2001 |accessdate=9 February 2007}}</ref> on the grounds that the movement's teachings explicitly forbid suicide and killing,<ref name="TheIssueOfKilling">{{cite web |url=http://falundafa.org/book/eng/zfl_new_7.html#1 |title=The Issue of Killing |first=Hongzhi |last=Li |work=[[Zhuan Falun]] |publisher=Falun Dafa}}</ref> and further alleged that the event itself never happened, and was a cruel but clever piece of stunt-work.<ref name=brady08>Anne-Marie Brady, Marketing dictatorship: propaganda and thought work in contemporary China, Rowman & Littlefield, 2008</ref> The incident received international news coverage, and video footage of the burnings were broadcast later inside China by [[China Central Television]] (CCTV). Images of a 12 year old girl, Liu Siying, burning and interviews with the other participants in which they stated their belief that self-immolation would lead them to paradise were shown.<ref name="FDI_PressRelease"/><ref name=oneway>{{cite news |first=Philip P. |last=Pan |url= |title=One-Way Trip to the End in Beijing |work=International Herald Tribune |date=5 February 2001|accessdate = 9 February 2007}}</ref> Falun Gong-related commentators pointed out that the main participants' account of the incident and other aspects of the participants' behavior were inconsistent with the teachings of Falun Dafa.<ref name=WOIPFG2>{{cite web |url=http://www.upholdjustice.org/English.2/S_I_second_report.htm |title=Second Investigation Report on the 'Tiananmen Square Self-Immolation Incident |author=World Organization to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong |publisher=upholdjustice.org |date=August 2003 |accessdate= 6 February 2007}}</ref> ''Time'' reported that prior to the self-immolation incident, many Chinese had felt that Falun Gong posed no real threat, and that the state's crackdown had gone too far. After the event, however, China's media campaign against Falun Gong gained significant traction.<ref name=breakingpoint>Matthew Gornet, [http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,165163,00.html The Breaking Point], [[Time (magazine)|Time]], 25 June 2001</ref><br />
<br />
===Conversion program===<br />
According to James Tong, Professor of Political Science at the University of California and Chief Editor of the journal ''Chinese Law and Government'', the regime aimed at both coercive dissolution of the Falun Gong denomination and reform and rehabilitation of the practitioners.<ref name=tong105/> By 2000 the Party upped its campaign by sentencing "recidivist" practitioners to "[[re-education through labor]]", in an effort to have them renounce their beliefs and "transform" their thoughts.<ref name="dangerous"/> Terms were also arbitrarily extended by police, while some practitioners had ambiguous charges levied against them, such as "disrupting social order," "endangering national security," or "subverting the socialist system."<ref name=bejesky>Robert Bejesky, “Falun Gong & reeducation through labor”, ''Columbia Journal of Asian Law'', 17:2, Spring 2004, pp. 147-189</ref> According to Bejesky, the majority of long-term Falun Gong detainees were processed administratively through this system instead of the criminal justice system.<ref name="bejesky"/> Upon completion of their re-education sentences, those practitioners who refused to recant were then incarcerated in "legal education centers" set up by provincial authorities to "transform minds".<br />
<br />
This was accomplished through four program initiatives: a mass campaign of electronic and print propaganda; intensive individualized reeducation; special programmes for true believers that emphasised "internal transformation" rather than "external conformity"; and for the still defiant, punitive and rehabilitative labor reform.<ref name=tong105>Tong (2009), p. 105</ref> Human rights organizations condemned this treatment of Falun Gong practitioners, with [[Amnesty International]] declaring it politically motivated, and [[Human Rights Watch]] reporting that access to the camps was heavily restricted, while the practitioners were subject to a wide range of human rights violations, including forced labor and a wide array of physical abuses.<ref name="dangerous"/><br />
<br />
A battery of propaganda techniques were applied, according to Tong, known in official parlance as "mobile and fixed-point propaganda," seminars, "on-the-spot education," "theory guidance," and special topic discussion, through which Falun Gong practitioners were organised to study the speeches of Jiang Zemin, central government documents, and articles in major newspapers.<ref name="Tong 2009, p. 108">Tong (2009), p. 108</ref> Special propaganda troupes to repudiate Falun Gong were formed and sent to residential committees and Falun Gong practice sites.<ref name="Tong 2009, p. 108"/><br />
<br />
Much of the conversion program relied on Mao-style techniques of indoctrination and thought reform, where Falun Gong practioners were organized to view anti-Falun Gong television programs and enroll in Marxism and materialism study sessions.<ref>Tong (2009), p. 109</ref> Traditional Marxism and materialism were the core content of the sessions.<ref>Tong (2009), p. 128</ref><br />
<br />
[[Sima Nan]], a critic of perceived cults and supernaturalism, rose to prominence during the time of conversion program, being featured in newspapers and sent to state companies across the country to lecture and "smoke out [Falun Gong] members."<ref name=johnson>{{cite news |url=http://www.rickross.com/reference/fa_lun_gong/falun101.html |title=Who Ya Gonna Call? In China, Debunkers Hire a Cultbuster |work=[[The Wall Street Journal]] |first=Ian |last=Johnson |date=30 August 1999 |accessdate=21 October 2009 <!--|archivedate=1 March 2007-->}}</ref> He lectured provincial officials on the evils of superstition, and worked on a TV documentary on Falun Dafa. He was awarded a national "hero of atheism" award.<ref name=johnson/><br />
<br />
===Coercive measures===<br />
[[File:Gaorongrong small.jpg|thumb|right|150px|Gao Rongrong, in hospital after being tortured by Chinese security forces. Amnesty writes that officials had reportedly beaten her using electro-shock batons on her face and neck, causing severe blistering and eyesight problems. She was recaptured and died from abuse in custody.<ref name=Amnesty2006>[http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/POL10/001/2006/en/59ad70c9-d46f-11dd-8743-d305bea2b2c7/pol100012006en.pdf Amnesty International 2006 Annual Report]</ref><ref name=InterviewSurvivors>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eXzLlXf2IE Interviews with two survivors of the chinese labor Camps and victims of the persecution of Falun Gong.] Both since died.</ref>]]<br />
The government-sponsored image of the conversion process emphasises psychological persuasion and a variety of "soft-sell" techniques; this is the "ideal norm" in regime reports, according to Tong. Falun Gong reports, on the other hand, depict "disturbing and sinister" forms of coercion against practitioners who fail to renounce their beliefs.<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref> 14,474 cases are classified by different methods of torture in Falun Gong sources, according to Tong. Among them are cases of severe beatings; psychological torment, included forcing victims to curse Li Hongzhi, to destroy his portrait and the Falun Gong publications, or force the individual to drink alcohol and to smoke, which are contrary to Falun Gong injunctions;<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref> corporal punishment and forced intense, heavy-burden hard labor and stress positions; solitary confinement in squalid conditions;<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref> "heat treatment" including burning and freezing; electric shocks delivered to sensitive parts of the body that may result in nausea, convulsions, or fainting;<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref> "devastative" forced feeding; sticking bamboo strips into fingernails; deprivation of food, sleep, and use of toilet;<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref> rape and gang rape; asphyxiation; and threat, extortion, and termination of employment and student status.<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref><br />
<br />
Such coercive practices are seen as pervasive across the country, and condoned or promoted by the central authorities, according to those sources, Tong says.<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref> The cases "appear verifiable, as the great majority of them identify (1) the individual Falungong practitioner, often with age, occupation, and domicile; (2) the time and location that the alleged abuse took place, including not only urban districts and rural townships and villages but also specific penal institutions; and (3) the names and ranks of the alleged perpetrators. Many of these reports include lists of the names of human witnesses and descriptions of physical injuries."<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref> While Tong notes that it is clear that such behavior was officially prohibited, the publication of "persistent abusive, often brutal behavior by named individuals with their official title, place, and time of torture" for six years suggests that there is no official will to cease and desist such activities.<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref><br />
<br />
===Falun Gong response===<br />
[[Image:TiananmennBrutality.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Protesters are arrested in Tiananmen Square]]<br />
Amnesty International states that despite the crackdown many Falun Gong practitioners continued to hold exercise sessions in public, usually as a form of peaceful, silent protest against the crackdown and imprisonment; they were often attended by large numbers of people, including significant numbers of elderly and women.<ref name="Amnesty1"/> The Party declared the sessions to be "illegal assemblies;" practitioners or others who "spoke up" for the movement would be detained by officials, at the beginning for several days.<ref name="HRW1"/> This method was later seen as inadequate, because upon release, practitioners would resume protest activities.<ref name="dangerous"/> The authorities treated these practitioners as "recidivists" and saw them as particularly problematic.<br />
<br />
Despite Beijing's heavy hand against practitioners, protests continued well into 2000. According to ''Time'' magazine, a Falun Gong website editorial instructed followers to "step up" demonstrations, "especially in Tiananmen Square". Founder [[Li Hongzhi]] urged followers to immobilize the police and other "evil scoundrels" through use of supernatural powers.<ref name=breakingpoint>{{cite news |first=Matthew |last=Gornet |url=http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,165163,00.html |title=The Breaking Point |work=[[Time (magazine)|Time]] |date=25 June 2001}}</ref> [[Tiananmen Square]] thus became one of the prime locations where practitioners routinely demonstrated despite government deterrence. By 25 April 2000, within one year after the demonstration at Zhongnanhai, a total of more than 30,000 practitioners were arrested there,<ref name="johnson2000">{{cite web |url=http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/6464 |title=Defiant Falun Dafa Members Converge on Tiananmen |first=Ian |last=Johnson |date=25 April 2000 |work=The Wall Street Journal |publisher=Pulitzer.org |page= A21}}</ref> and seven hundred Falun Gong followers were arrested during a demonstration in the Square on 1 January 2001.<ref name="Perry">{{cite book |first=Elizabeth J. |last=Selden |coauthor=Perry, Mark |title=Chinese Society: Change, Conflict and Resistance |publisher=Routledge |year=2003 |isbn=041530170X}}</ref><br />
<br />
According to the Chinese government, Falun Gong activists have launched attacks against [[Sinosat]]'s satellite-broadcast and jammed television signals, replacing regular state television broadcasts with their own material.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2002-07/08/content_473926.htm |title=Chinese satellite TV hijacked by Falun Gong cult |publisher=News.xinhuanet.com |date=8 July 2002 |accessdate=18 December 2009}}</ref> For example, in March 2002, Liu Chengjun, a Falun Gong practitioner, managed to intercept eight cable television networks in Changchun City and Songyuan City, Jilin Province, and televised a program titled “Self-Immolation or a Staged Act?”. Liu was arrested and reportedly subjected to 21 months of torture that led directly to his death.<ref name=mediacontrol>He Qinglian, Media Control in China, HRIC, 2008</ref><br />
<br />
====Response outside China====<br />
{{Main|Falun Gong outside mainland China}}<br />
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Due to its ban in mainland China, Falun Gong practitioners have taken to their cause internationally, especially in Australia, Canada, the United States, and the United Kingdom. Since the ban in China, Falun Gong has alleged that its practitioners in China were subject to arbitrary arrest and torture, and violated their freedom of religion.<ref name=bejesky/> Falun Gong related cases comprise 66% of all reported torture cases in China, according to the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture,<ref name=nowak66>[http://www.cecc.gov/pages/annualRpt/annualRpt06/Religion.php Report of the Special Rapporteur on torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment: MISSION TO CHINA], Manfred Nowak, United Nations, Table 1: Victims of alleged torture, p. 13, 2006. Retrieved 12 October 2007.</ref> and at least half of the labor camp population.<ref name=USstate>[http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2007/90133.htm ''International Religious Freedom Report 2007''], [[US Department of State]], Sept 14, 2007, accessed 28th Sept 2007</ref> [[Amnesty International]] urged the government to "take seriously its commitment to prevent torture and take action immediately."<ref name="Amnesty2000">[http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/ASA17/048/2000/en/c5c52a11-dc75-11dd-b511-85b064f5a516/asa170482000en.html ''China: Falun Gong deaths in custody continue to rise as crackdown worsens'']. 19 December 2000. Amnesty International index ASA 17/048/2000 - News Service Nr. 239.</ref><ref>[http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/ASA17/014/2007/en/44b5c38b-d3a5-11dd-a329-2f46302a8cc6/asa170142007en.html China: Fear of torture or ill-treatment]. 20 March 2007. Amnesty International index ASA 17/014/2007.</ref> Amnesty has since reported that nearly 100 Falun Gong practitioners have died due to mistreatment in detention in 2008<ref>[http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/china/report-2008 China - Amnesty International Report 2008] Amnesty International, 2008. Retrieved March 15, 2010</ref> The United Nations asked the Chinese government to respond to the various allegations by Falun Gong and human rights groups.<ref name = "UN.org-2004"/><br />
<br />
Falun Gong practitioners in the United States routinely file cases in U.S. federal courts, and have filed the largest number of human rights lawsuits in the 21st century with crimes charged among the most severe according to international criminal law.<ref name=Ownby2008>David Ownby, Falun Gong and the Future of China, 2008</ref><ref>[http://www.flgjustice.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=15 Legal Actions in Chronological Order], Justice for Falun Gong. Retrieved 16 August 2007.</ref><br />
<br />
Practitioners engage in promotional activities by handing out flyers in busy intersections, in the subway or at the mall, leaving Falun Gong literature in stores, libraries, laundries etc. Although some of the literature deals with Falun Gong's situation in China, other publications also include the ''Nine Commentaries of the Communist Party'', a critical editorial of the Communist Party of China, which are distributed by practitioners in both DVD and book form. Falun Gong practitioners also join marches, parades, and celebrations of Chinese culture.<ref name="Ownbyfuture"/> Response to these appeals has been mixed.<ref>Crompton, Sarah (2008). [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/dance/3671451/Shen-Yun-Propaganda-as-entertainment.html 'Shen Yun: Propaganda as entertainment'']</ref><ref>Konigsberg, Eric (2008). [http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/06/nyregion/06splendor.html?_r=1&fta=y 'A Glimpse of Chinese Culture That Some Find Hard to Watch']</ref><br />
<br />
Since 2006, a central part of the Falun Gong campaign focused on alleged organ harvesting from living practitioners. The [[Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong]] commissioned Canadian parliamentarian [[David Kilgour]] and human rights lawyer [[David Matas]] to investigate the allegations.<ref name="km">Matas, David & Kilgour, David (2007). [http://organharvestinvestigation.net/ ''Revised Report into Allegations of Organ Harvesting of Falun Gong Practitioners in China'']</ref> The ''Christian Science Monitor'' considered the evidence [[circumstantial evidence|circumstantial]], but persuasive, and criticized the Chinese government for a lack of openness in investigating the claims.<ref name=monitorsview>The Monitor's View, [http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0803/p08s02-comv.html "Organ harvesting and China's openness"], ''The [[Christian Science Monitor]]'', 3 August 2006. Retrieved 6 August 2006.</ref> Likewise, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture Manfred Nowak said the report "shows a coherent picture that causes concern."<ref>[http://www.david-kilgour.com/2007/Dec_03_2007_01a.htm An Interview with U.N. Special Rapporteur on Organ Harvesting in China]</ref> In November 2008, the United Nations Committee Against Torture noted that an increase in organ transplant operations coincided with “the beginning of the persecution of [Falun Gong practitioners]” and demanded an explanation. The Chinese government has repeatedly denied these allegations, saying that the report was based on "rumors and false allegations".<ref>Canadian Press (7 July 2006) [http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=432dfdf7-9767-46b9-a210-65ff388d823f&k=17423 "Report claims China kills prisoners to harvest organs for transplant"], ''canada.com''. Retrieved 8 July 2006.</ref> The United States [[Congressional Research Service]] report by Dr. Thomas Lum stated that the Kilgour-Matas report relied largely on logical inference without bringing forth new or independently-obtained testimony, and that the conclusions also rely heavily upon questionable evidence.<ref name=lum>Thomas Lum, [http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/RL33437.pdf Congressional Research Report #RL33437], Congressional Research Service, August 11, 2006</ref> [[Human rights]] activist [[Harry Wu]] also voiced doubts about conclusions of the Kilgour-Matas report.<ref>[http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/RL33437.pdf CRS Report for Congress (11 August 2006)]</ref> David Ownby, a noted expert on Falun Gong, said that he saw "no evidence proving [organ harvesting] is aimed particularly at Falun Gong practitioners."<ref name=radiocan>{{cite web| url=http://www.radio-canada.ca/apropos/lib/v3.1/pdf/revfalungongenglish.pdf |title=Review by the Ombudsman, French Services of Complaint filed by the Falun Dafa Association of Canada |date=27 January 2009}}</ref><br />
<br />
On 16 March 2010, the U.S. House of Representatives called for "an immediate end to the campaign to persecute, intimidate, imprison, and torture Falun Gong practitioners." House Resolution 605 argued that Chinese authorities have devoted extensive time and resources over the past decade distributing "false propaganda" worldwide, and expressed sympathy to persecuted Falun Gong practitioners and their families.<ref>[http://www.faluninfo.net/article/998/?cid=76 United States House Resolution 605], Faluninfo.net, March 17, 2010</ref><ref>Einhorn, Bruce. "[http://www.businessweek.com/blogs/eyeonasia/archives/2010/03/congress_challe.html Congress Challenges China on Falun Gong & Yuan], Business Week, March 17, 2010</ref><br />
<br />
==Organisation and media==<br />
The precise nature of Falun Gong's organization has been a subject of some controversy. Chinese authorities portray Falun Gong as a tight, well-structured and well-funded organization, able to mobilize millions of practitioners.<ref name=tongforb>James Tong, Revenge of the Forbidden City, Oxford University Press (2009) p. 30</ref> Falun Gong denies having an organizational structure, and maintains that it is merely a spiritual group that practices a brand of ''qigong''.<ref name=Tong>{{cite journal| first=James| last=Tong| title=An Organizational Analysis of the Falun Gong: Structure, Communications, Financing| journal=[[The China Quarterly]]| volume=171| month=September| year=2002| pages=636–660| doi=10.1017/S0009443902000402}}</ref> It eschews the term 'membership' and doesn't keep figures. As a result, estimates vary over the number of people practicing Falun Gong. Before the ban, the government estimated 70 million, and later revised the figure to 2 million.<ref name="Practitioners_PRC_estimate">{{cite web | url=http://partners.nytimes.com/library/world/asia/042799china-protest.html| work=[[The New York Times]] | last=FAISON| first=SETH | date=27 April 1999 | accessdate=8 September 2009 | title=In Beijing: A Roar of Silent Protesters }}</ref><br />
<br />
===Inside China===<br />
After its withdrawal from the Scientific Qigong Association in 1994, the Falun Dafa Research Society (FDRS) applied to a number of government agencies, and was rejected by all of them.<ref>Cheng Helin, Great Expose´, p. 154.</ref> Unable to operate within a state-sponsored framework, Falun Gong pursued a more decentralized and loose organizational structure from 1997, according to Porter.<br />
<br />
The Chinese government, in post-crackdown reports, claimed that Falun Gong was a highly organized group with 39 "main stations", 1,900 "guidance stations", and 28,263 practice sites nation-wide, overseeing a total of 2.1 million practitioners.<ref name = Peoples>''[[People's Daily]]'', 23 July 1999, "''Li Hongzhi qirenqishi''"</ref> ''Time'' also described Falun Gong as "hierarchically structured, with neighborhood groups, like cells, acting autonomously but in contact with higher levels." Teachings were meant to be propagated through tapes and essays, which followers studied, and no one was permitted to interpret or question the master's words.<ref name=breakingpoint/> Anthropologist Noah Porter writes that Falun Gong's structure in China was not hierarchical, and that it was able to grow in a restrictive society like the PRC because of its relatively small size and flexible communication methods.<ref name=porterprof>Noah Porter, “Professional Practitioners and Contact Persons Explicating Special Types of Falun Gong Practitioners,” Nova Religio, November 2005, Vol. 9, No. 2, Pages 62–83</ref><br />
<br />
====Finances====<br />
Opinions differ on whether or not Li made money from the practice in China, and if so, how much. [[Dai Qing]] (2000) states that by 1997, Li was receiving annual income in excess of [[Chinese yuan|¥]]10&nbsp;million,<ref name="Jude Howell">{{cite book |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=H80YZqSj7EEC&pg=PP1&dq=Governance+in+China+~+Jude+Howell#v=onepage&q=&f=false |title=Governance in China |editor= Jude Howell |first=Clemens Stubbe |last=Østergaard |pages=214–223 (Governance and the Political Challenge of Falun Gong) |year=2003 |isbn=0742519880}}</ref> even arguing that "Li's income is more legitimate than those of corrupt government officials."<ref>Dai Qing: Members of Falungong in an Autocratic Society. Asia Quarterly, Volume IV, No.3, Summer 2000</ref> Others dispute the theory that Li made any serious money from Falun Gong. Ian Johnson links the claim with the government’s campaign to portray Falun Gong as a highly organised group, or a cult, and rejects both, since “during the most dynamic period of the group's existence in China the books and videos were bootleg, so he hadn't received royalties.”<ref name="wildgrass"/><br />
<br />
===Outside China===<br />
Falun Gong practitioners have set up international media organizations to promote their cause and criticize the Communist Party of China. These include ''[[The Epoch Times]]'' newspaper, [[NTDTV]], [[Sound of Hope]] radio station,<ref name=gospel>[http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/features/295092 The gospel truth: Falun Gong], Sunday Star Times, March 2, 2008</ref> and Epoch Press Inc.<ref name=sap200903>Mata Press Service, [http://www.southasianpost.com/portal2/c1ee8c421f38354c011f43489df90017_Punjabi_Publisher_fights_for_press_freedom_in_BC.do.html "Punjabi Publisher fights for press freedom in BC"] South Asian Post, March 2009</ref> According to Zhao, through<br />
Epoch Times it can be discerned how Falun Gong is building a "de facto media alliance" with China’s democracy movements in exile, as demonstrated by its frequent printing of articles by prominent overseas Chinese critics of the Chinese government.<ref name="zhao"/><br />
<br />
While Chinese media have attacked Falun Gong since 1999, Falun Gong's response through its various media organizations has earned the group some degree of positive PR in the West. Explaining the genesis of Epoch Times, Ownby said that practitioners have become "somewhat paranoid" of being ill-treated by journalists during the last decade, "so they decided to publish a newspaper by themselves to publicize their beliefs..."<ref>Radio Canada ombudsman report, p. 10</ref><br />
<br />
Ethan Gutmann, a journalist reporting on China since the early 1990s, sees Falun Gong as an "unplanned child" of the dissident community, one that "marched to a distinctly Chinese drum" in its public representations, carrying some of the uncouthness of Communist party culture. This includes exaggeration, sensationalism, creating torture tableaux "straight out of a Cultural Revolution opera", a tendency to spout slogans rather than facts,<ref name=gutmann_harvest>Gutmann, Ethan. "[http://www.weeklystandard.com/print/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/824qbcjr.asp China's Gruesome Organ Harvest]", November 24, 2008, Vol. 14, No. 10</ref> intolerance of criticism, blanket denials when accused, and deflecting blame by charging the other of the same offense. While the CCP/Falun Gong debate is often seen as a zero-sum game, criticism of one is taken as vindication of the other.<ref name=gospel/><ref name=kavan>{{cite journal |url=http://molta.massey.ac.nz/massey/fms/Colleges/College%20of%20Business/Communication%20and%20Journalism/ANZCA%202008/Refereed%20Papers/Kavan_ANZCA08.pdf |title=Falun Gong in the media: What can we believe? |first=Heather |last=Kavan |author=Department of Communication, Journalism and Marketing |work=Massey University |page=13 |journal=E. Tilley (Ed.) Power and Place: Refereed Proceedings of the Australian & New Zealand Communication Association Conference, Wellington. |date=July 2008}}</ref> Maria H. Chang of the [[University of Nevada, Reno|University of Nevada]] says Falun Gong's media and human rights initiatives seem like "front organisations" meant to influence public opinion via a "concerted information-PR-propaganda campaign"—which, she says, is understandable given the experiences of many adherents in the political environment of China, where such tactics are the norm.<ref name=gospel/><br />
<br />
In May 2006, the outspoken dissident and former Beijing University journalism professor Jiao Guobiao published an essay lauding what he considers unbalanced and highly partisan journalistic tactics of Falun Gong-related media like Radio Free Asia. Arguing that there is no attempt at balance on the mainland, Jiao proposed that even if Falun Gong outlets published only negative information highly critical of the CCP, the weight of their attacks could never begin to counterbalance the positive propaganda the party publishes about itself. "What the mainland Chinese public lacks is negative information about mainland China... Balance does not mean that all media entities have to achieve a God-like balance, but that the media can balance the principles of freedom, equality and legality together... Balance is the result of the collective imbalances of all," he wrote.<ref name="thornton" /><br />
<br />
Patricia Thornton sees Falun Gong as an oppressed group whose bid to gain transnational support for its cause has sometimes backfired, leading to greater scrutiny of the affairs of participants and their public relations tactics. Generally, while new digital media have allowed repressed groups more access to international audiences, at the same time it has made their organization and beliefs more vulnerable to public exposure.<ref name="thornton">Thornton, Patricia M. ''Manufacturing Dissent in Transnational China'' pp. 179-204 in "Popular Protest in China," Kevin J. O'Brien (ed.), Harvard University Press 2008</ref><br />
<br />
Informal networks called "Falun Dafa Associations" exist around the world, of which the Canadian and American chapters are the most prominent. Practice points are also staffed at a number of universities. Falun Gong has also established university chapters in the United States.<ref>Falun Gong clubs at universities:<br />
* [http://www.umich.edu/~falun/index.html Falun Dafa in Michigan, retrieved 25 Sept 2009]<br />
* [http://www.columbia.edu/cu/falundafa/ Falun Dafa at Columbia, retrieved 25 Sept 2009]<br />
* [http://www.studentgroups.ucla.edu/falun/ Falun Dafa at UCLA, retrieved 25 Sept 2009]<br />
* [http://www.its.caltech.edu/~falun/ Falun Dafa at Caltech, retrieved 25 Sept 2009]</ref><br />
<br />
New Tang Dynasty Television has also produces the [[Shen Yun Performing Arts]] organization that hosts both New York and a travelling international dance company featuring Chinese dance and song.<br />
<br />
Falun Gong practitioners also have considerable presence on the Internet,<ref name=hanson1999/> with websites such as ''clearwisdom.net'', ''faluninfo.net'', ''mingui'', ''pureinsight'' that publish Li's teachings and testimonials about the persecution in China.<ref name=morais/> Falun Gong practitioners have also set up groups like [[CIPFG]], Falun Dafa Information Center, and "World Organisation to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong," which publish reports and attempt to deliver their message to Western media, governments, and NGOs.<ref name="Amnesty1"/><ref name=HRW1>[http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/china/ China's Campaign Against Falungong], Human Rights Watch</ref><br />
<br />
==Public debate==<br />
Zhao (2003) sees Falun Gong as a profound challenge to China's dominant "meaning system" for Falun Gong's insistence on the public nature of the practice, the imperative to gain positive representation and to make known their dissent.<ref name=zhao/> Such is made more difficult with the reception Falun Gong received by American journalists, who had a number of problems with Falun Gong. These include that its emergence in 1999 took them by surprise, and "journalists don't like feeling out of the loop"; foreign reporters depend on the CCP's cooperation for access and accreditation, and while Falun Gong is the party's enemy number one, stories about the persecution could lead to loss of journalists' ability to work; and because Falun Gong's insistence on traditional values like marriage and morality make it look like an enemy of the New China of progress and commercialisation.<ref name=gutmann_carrytorch>Gutmann, Ethan. "[http://www.weeklystandard.com/print/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/986himak.asp Carrying a Torch for China]", Weekly Standard, April 21, 2008, Vol. 13, No. 30</ref><br />
<br />
===Categorization===<br />
There is some degree of debate about how Falun Gong should be categorized, whether as a ''qigong'' practice, a spiritual discipline, or a New Religious Movement. The view that Falun Gong is a cult, widely used as part of Chinese state propaganda against the practice and adopted by some members of the anti-cult movement, is mostly rejected by mainstream scholarship.<ref>Substantiation may be found in: Ownby 2008, p. vii and elsewhere; Madsen 2000; Chan 2004; Richardson & Edelman 2004; Hill et al 2001, pp. 34-35, etc.</ref> Adam Frank identifies five generalizable frames of discourse surrounding Falun Gong: the Western media, the Chinese media, an emerging scholarly tradition, the discourse of human rights groups, and a sympathetic practice-based discourse.<ref name=frank2004>Frank, Adam. (2004) Falun Gong and the threat of history. in ''Gods, guns, and globalization: religious radicalism and international political economy'' edited by Mary Ann Tétreault, Robert Allen Denemark, Lynne Rienner Publishers, 2004, ISBN 1588262537, pp. 233-263</ref> Western journalists initially adopted what Frank regards as dubious historical referents, like the [[Taiping Rebellion]] and the [[Boxer Uprising]] to frame Falun Gong; the Chinese print media were "blanketed" with anti-Falun Gong propaganda; scholarly debate sought a place for the practice in a wider Chinese historical context without resorting to sensationalism; human rights groups took up a discourse of nonpractitioner opposition to Chinese government policy, focusing on legal mechanisms and specific cases; Falun Gong practitioners themselves attempted to emphasise the psycho-physiological foundation of their discipline, which is their basis for following Li Hongzhi's teachings and resisting state control.<ref>Frank (2004), 240-254</ref><br />
<br />
The Chinese Buddhist Association, concerned with Buddhist apostates taking up Falun Gong practice, were the first to term Falun Gong ''xiejiao'' in 1996. A direct translation of that term is "heretical teaching,"<ref name="Amnesty1"/> but during the anti-Falun Gong propaganda campaign was rendered as "evil cult" in English. Western media initially adopted this language after the Chinese government's media reports,<ref name=frank2004/> but soon began using less loaded terms.<ref name=kipnis2001>Kipnis, Andrew B. 2001, The Flourishing of Religion in Post-Mao China and the Anthropological Category of Religion, THE AUSTRALIAN JOURNAL OF ANTHROPOLOGY, 12:1, 32-46 Anthropology, Australian National University</ref><br />
<br />
Richard Madsen writes that like most ''qigong'' practices, Falun Gong may appear religious because it does not make a clear distinction between physical and spiritual healing.<ref name="Madsen 2000, p. 244">Madsen (2000), p. 244</ref> Falun Dafa can be seen as part of a long tradition of Chinese folk Buddhism, he writes, which often had a millenarian element that "this world was hopelessly corrupt and would come to an end."<ref name="Madsen 2000, p. 244"/><br />
<br />
Cheris Shun-ching Chan consider cults to be new religious movements that focus on the individual experience of the encounter with the sacred rather than collective worship, and writes that Falun Gong is neither a cult nor a sect, but a [[new religious movement]] with cult-like characteristics.<ref name=chan2004>Chan, Cheris Shun-ching (2004). The Falun Gong in China: A Sociological Perspective. The China Quarterly, 179 , pp 665-683</ref> Some scholars avoid the term "cult" altogether because "of the confusion between the historic meaning of the term and current pejorative use"<ref name=bainbridge97>Bainbridge, William Sims 1997 The sociology of religious movements, Routledge, 1997, page 24, ISBN 0415912024</ref><ref name=rich93>{{cite journal |last=Richardson |first=James T. |year=1993 |title=Definitions of Cult: From Sociological-Technical to Popular-Negative |journal=Review of Religious Research |volume=34| issue = 4 |pages=348–356}}</ref> These scholars prefer terms like "spiritual movement","new religious syncretism" or "new religious movement" to avoid the negative connotations of "cult" or to avoid mis-categorizing those which do not fit mainstream definitions.<ref name=frank2004/><ref>Kai-Ti Chou, Contemporary Religous Movements in Taiwan. Edwin Mellen Press, 2008. pp. 184-185. ISBN 978-0-7734-5241-1</ref><br />
<br />
Harvey Hill et al conclude in a study of media reporting on new religious groups that the most influential reporting on religion fails the standards of an "evenhanded, non-judgmental and fair approach," at least in the language used to describe such groups.<ref name=harvey2001>Hill, Harvey, John Hickman, Joel McLendon. "Cults and Sects and Doomsday Groups, Oh My: Media Treatment of Religion on the Eve of the Millennium," Review of Religious Research, Vol. 43, No. 1 (Sep., 2001), pp. 24-38</ref> Since Falun Gong seems highly unlikely to commit acts of violence, and while the agent of violence has been the Chinese government, they write that "the characterization particularly of Falun Gong as "cult" would seem inaccurate and unjust." They attribute the reason for the adoption of such terms to uncritical acceptance of the views of the Chinese government by the media, an acceptance that is "rife with irony." Such negative portrayal of new religious movements is unfair and dangerous, they write, adding that "it would be preferable to use terms less likely to reinforce mutual mistrust and more conducive to real understanding."<ref>Hill et al 2001, pp. 34-35</ref><br />
<br />
=== Controversies ===<br />
Some aspects of Falun Gong's teachings are considered implausible and peculiar by observers, and Falun Gong's conservative and moralistic views on subjects such as homosexuality have attracted controversy. In 2001, for example, a nomination of Li Hongzhi for the [[Nobel Peace Prize]] by [[San Francisco]] legislators was withdrawn after they were notified of the group's views.<ref name=downtown>{{cite news |url=http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_60/falungong.html |title=Falun Gong tries to join Chinatown Independence parade |first=David H. |last=Ellis |publisher=Downtown Eexpress}}</ref><ref name=tolerance>{{cite web |url=http://www.religioustolerance.org/falungong1.htm |title=INTRODUCTION TO FALUN GONG & FALUN DAFA<br />
Its terminology, symbol, texts, beliefs, web sites, & books |author=Ontaria Consultants on Religious Tolerance |publisher=religioustolerance.org |accessdate=6 January 2010}}</ref><ref name="Mercury News">Lubman, Sarah [http://www.rickross.com/reference/fa_lun_gong/falun249.html "A Chinese Battle on U.S. Soil" in San Jose Mercury News (December 23, 2001)] retrieved June 14, 2006</ref> The Falun Dafa Information Center states that Falun Gong welcomes gays, lesbians, and bisexuals to the practice, that they are not accorded special treatment, and that while Falun Gong teaches that homosexuality "generates more karma", this does not equate to a position statement, social stance, or regulation.<ref>Falun Dafa Information Center, [http://faluninfo.net/article/654/?cid=23 "Misconceptions: "Intolerant"?"], 16 Jun 2008</ref><br />
<br />
David Ownby writes that interpreting Li Hongzhi's teachings presents numerous challenges because many of the things he says appear "somewhat puzzling." Startling assertions found in Li's writings, according to Ownby, include that there is a "small fluorescent screen like a television" positioned in the forehead that permits the initiated to possess the power of total recall; that animals can possess human beings in order to exploit humans' greater spiritual and supernormal capacities; and that the spiritual [[salvation]] of children of [[interracial marriage]]s is problematic because, in the afterlife, the paradises are divided by race.<ref>Ownby 2008, p. 89</ref><br />
<br />
Opinions among scholars differ as to whether Falun Gong contains an apocalyptic message, and if so what the consequences of that are. Li maintains that mankind has been destroyed 81 times, and, according to some interpretations, that another round of destruction may be imminent. At least one follower suggested there would be "some sudden change that will be good for good people, but bad for bad people."<ref name=nyt20000430>{{cite news |url=http://www.nytimes.com/2000/04/30/weekinreview/the-world-rooting-out-falun-gong-china-makes-war-on-mysticism.html?pagewanted=all |title=Rooting Out Falun Gong; China Makes War on Mysticism |first=Craig S. |last=Smith<br />
|work=New York Times |date=30 April 2000}}</ref> In Heather Kavan's opinion, Falun Gong members don't leave the group because they believe that it's the only way to save themselves.<ref name=kavan /> Richard Gunde, Assistant Director of the Center for Chinese Studies at UCLA, argues that Falun Gong is unlike western cults that fixate on death and Armageddon, but merely promises its followers a long and healthy life. "Falun Gong has a simple, innocuous ethical message," Gunde says, "and its leader, Li Hongzhi, despite his unusual, if not bizarre, statements, is in many ways simple and low key."<ref>Gunde, Richard. Culture and customs of China. Greenwood Publishing Group, 2002, p. 215</ref> At the local level Li's fantastic claims seem to be of little theological importance, since Falun Gong practice does not require unquestioning acceptance of all of Li's teachings, and there is no overt emphasis on dogmatically enforcing orthodoxy, according to Craig Burgdoff.<ref name=burgdoff/><br />
<br />
Adam Frank writes that in reporting on the Falun Gong, the Western tradition of casting the Chinese as "exotic" took dominance, and that "the facts were generally correct, but the normalcy that millions of Chinese practitioners associated with the practice had all but disappeared."<ref>Frank 2004, p. 241</ref> Sinologist Benjamin Penny sees Falun Gong's apparent last days message as largely innocuous, with Buddhist roots,<ref name="radio" /> and suggests "the fact that [Falun Gong beliefs] are often difficult for Westerners to understand should not be any reason to relegate them to the anomalous or quirky or kooky."<ref name=Fellow /><br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{Reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==Further reading==<br />
*David Ownby, ''[http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Bwqkwx4SWS0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=ownby+falun&client=firefox-a&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Falun Gong and the Future of China]'' (Oxford University Press, 2008) ISBN 978-0-19-532905-6<br />
*Kai-Ti Chou (2008), ''Contemporary Religious Movements in Taiwan: Rhetorics of Persuasion'' (Edwin Mellen Press) pp.&nbsp;133–188. ISBN 0-7734-5241-9''<br />
*Maria Hsia Chang, ''Falun Gong: The End of Days'' (New Haven, Connecticut: [[Yale University Press]], 2004) ISBN 0-300-10227-5<br />
*Li Hongzhi, ''[http://www.falundafa.org/eng/books.htm#falungong Falun Gong (Law Wheel ''qigong'')]'' (1993)<br />
*Li Hongzhi, ''[http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/zflus.html Zhuan Falun]'' (English translation 2000)<br />
*[[Danny Schechter]], ''[http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=v20J18hL1MAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Danny+Schechter,+Falun+Gong%27s+Challenge+to+China&lr=&client=firefox-a&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Falun Gong's Challenge to China]'' ([[Akashic Books]], 2000) hardback ISBN 1-888451-13-0, paperback ISBN 1-888451-27-0<br />
* {{cite book |url=http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RXeuibmD2dsC&lpg=PR7&dq=Qigong%20fever%3A%20body%2C%20science%2C%20and%20utopia%20in%20China%E2%80%8E%20-%20Page%20241&lr=&client=firefox-a&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q=&f=false|title=Qigong fever: body, science, and utopia in China |pages= |work=<br />
|first= David A. |last=Palmer |year=2007 |isbn=0231140665 |publisher=Columbia University Press |location=New York }}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
{{Commons category|Falun Gong}}<br />
{{Portal|Falun Gong}}<br />
===Sites run by Falun Gong practitioners===<br />
* [http://www.FalunDafa.org/ FalunDafa.org], introducing Falun Gong and the exercises.<br />
* [http://www.faluninfo.net/ FalunInfo.net], with detailed reports and press releases.<br />
* [http://www.flghrwg.net/ Falun Gong Human Rights Working Group], with UN reports.<br />
* [http://clearwisdom.net/ Clearwisdom.net], intended mainly for practitioners, but has daily reports and news.<br />
<br />
===Sites run by the Chinese government===<br />
*[http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/ztbd/jpflg-new/index.htm Condemn Falun Gong Cult], a series of anti-Falun Gong articles of the state-run Xinhua news agency<br />
* [http://www.facts.org.cn China Association For Cultic Studies], anti-FLG presentation and recent news articles<br />
<br />
===Other critical sites===<br />
* [http://www.rickross.com/groups/falun.html The Rick A. Ross Institute's archives], vast collection of articles criticizing Falun Gong (mainly Communist Party sources)<br />
* [http://atimes.com/china/CA27Ad01.html Falungong Part 1: From Sport to Suicide], Francesco Sisci, Asia Times, 27 January 2001<br />
<br />
===Other sites on the issue===<br />
* [http://www.pulitzer.org/works/2001-International-Reporting-Group1 Articles by Ian Johnson (Pulitzer Prize winner)], ''[[Wall Street Journal]]'' (2001)<br />
*[http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s283930.htm Falun Gong: Cult or Culture?], Produced by Chris Bullock, Radio National, 22 April 2001<br />
*[http://www.cesnur.org/cgi-bin/swish.cgi?query=falun+gong press archives], Center for Studies on New Religions<br />
*[http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,165166,00.html Spiritual Society or Evil Cult?]<br />
*[http://www.time.com/time/asia/features/falun_gong/ Falun Gong portal], ''[[Time (magazine)|Time]]''<br />
*[http://www.apologeticsindex.org/f02.html Apologetics Index : Falun Gong, Falun Dafa, Falungong]<br />
{{Falun Gong}}<br />
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[[Category:Falun Gong]]<br />
[[Category:Culture of the People's Republic of China]]<br />
[[Category:New religious movements]]<br />
[[Category:Religion in the People's Republic of China]]<br />
[[Category:Society of the People's Republic of China]]<br />
[[Category:Meditation]]<br />
[[Category:Qigong]]<br />
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[[zh:法轮功]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shen_Yun&diff=369479256Shen Yun2010-06-22T02:33:55Z<p>Hmm...: /* Reception */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Chinese|t=神韻藝術團|s=神韵艺术团|p=shén yùn yì shù tuán|<br />
pic=logo-shenyun.png|picsize=120px|<br />
piccap=Company logo }}'''Shen Yun Performing Arts''', formerly known as '''Divine Performing Arts''', is a performing arts and entertainment company based in [[New York City]].<ref name="mission">{{cite web | url=http://shenyunperformingarts.org/mission | accessdate=15 November 2009 | title=Mission }} The Mission statement of Shen Yun Performing Arts</ref> It performs classical Chinese dance, ethnic and folk dance,<ref name="exploredance" /> and story-based dance.<ref name="pnwi" /><br />
<br />
Founded in 2006, the Shen Yun troupe is often associated with the [[Falun Gong]] spiritual practice,<ref name="sfgate">{{cite web<br />
| url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/04/PKC014SEDQ.DTL<br />
| work=[[San Francisco Chronicle]]<br />
| last=Hunt<br />
| first=Mary Ellen<br />
| date=4 January 2009<br />
| accessdate=4 September 2009<br />
| title=Chinese New Year Spectacular in S.F., Cupertino}}</ref><ref name="denverpost" /> and performances around the world are hosted by local Falun Dafa Associations. The show has been praised in the ''[[The Epoch Times]]'' by Broadway critic Richard Connema,<ref name=ept /> and criticised in ''[[The Guardian]]'' and other newspapers as promoting Falun Gong without saying so explicitly enough.<ref name='guardian'>{{cite web|url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2008/feb/25/dance |title=Dance review: Shen Yun Royal Festival Hall, London |first=Judith |last=Mackrell |work= The Guardian |date=25 February 2008 |accessdate=1 April 2009 }}</ref><ref name=telegr>{{cite web|url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/dance/3671451/Shen-Yun-Propaganda-as-entertainment.html |title=Shen Yun: Propaganda as entertainment |work=The Daily Telegraph |first=Sue |last=Crompton |date=25 February 2008 |accessdate=1 April 2009 }}</ref><ref name=star20080120>Susan Walker [http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/article/295651 (Falun) Gong New Year event mere propaganda], The Toronto Star, 20 January 2008</ref><br />
<br />
==Content==<br />
Shen Yun shows feature traditional Chinese dance and song. A January 2010 seven-show run of Shen Yun at the [[Kennedy Center]] Opera House in Washington, DC, consisted of "twenty-two vignettes that are distinguished by dazzlingly colorful costumes, bravura dancing, and thrilling operatic singing."<ref name="concnet">{{cite web | url=http://www.concertonet.com/scripts/review.php?ID_review=6204 | work=[[Concertonet.com]] | last=Sparacino | first=Micaele | date=19 January 2010 | accessdate=29 January 2010 | title=Deities, Dragons, Dancers, and Divas }}</ref> The 2008 shows in Denver were composed of sixty dancers, singers and musicians,<ref name="denverpost"/> though the size of each company varies. According to the company, traditional Chinese culture is a major source of inspiration. The 2007 shows in San Francisco contained sixteen<ref name="sfbaytimes">{{cite web | url=http://www.sfbaytimes.com/index.php?sec=article&article_id=5979 | work=[[San Francisco Bay Times]] | last=Goodwyn | first=Albert | date=11 January 2007 | accessdate=5 September 2009 | title=Chinese New Year Spectacular }}</ref> different acts of "hundreds of dancers in two dozen carefully designed, richly costumed pieces - everything from colorful handkerchief dances, Imperial-style dances in high platform shoes, drum dances, folk dances and wushu displays".<ref name="sfgate" /> The acts are presented in both Chinese and the local language.<ref name="sfbaytimes" /> Each act is accompanied by a full-width projected backdrop, that provided animation of "mountain scenes with snow, village scenes with rising smoke, countryside landscapes, and palaces."<ref name="sfbaytimes"/><br />
<br />
Shen Yun enacts three distinct forms of Chinese dance in its performances: classical Chinese dance, ethnic and folk dance (for instance, dances of China's Dai and Mongolian ethnic minorities<ref name="exploredance"/>), and story-based dance, presenting classic Chinese stories such as the legend of Mulan.<ref name="pnwi">{{cite web | url=http://www.inlander.com/content/arts_culture_shen_yun_performing_arts_inb_center/ | work=[[The Pacific Northwest Inlander]] | accessdate=15 November 2009 | title=International Incident }}</ref><br />
<br />
Aside from the dance pieces, "nostalgic counter-melody to the dance comes from a live orchestra of Chinese and Western instruments."<ref name="pnwi" /> The songs are in Chinese, but the lyrics, both in Chinese and the local language where the performance is being held, are projected onto a stage-spanning backdrop revealing the performances' "themes, dealing often with historical movements and their devoted disciples."<ref name="sfbaytimes" /><ref name="exploredance">{{cite web<br />
| url=http://www.exploredance.com/article.htm?id=1748&s=type&sid=144<br />
| work=Explore Dance<br />
| first=Jennifer<br />
| last=Wesnousky<br />
| date=16 February 2007<br />
| accessdate=5 September 2009<br />
| title=NTDTV's Chinese New Year Spectacular }}</ref><br />
<br />
==Show names==<br />
Initially the shows were titled "Chinese Spectacular",<ref name="sfgate" /><ref name="denverpost">{{cite web<br />
| url=http://www.denverpost.com/entertainment_old/ci_7925231<br />
| work=The Denver Post<br />
| first=John<br />
| last=Wenzel<br />
| date=1 October 2007<br />
| accessdate=5 September 2009<br />
| title=Chinese New Year embracing tradition }}</ref> "Holiday Wonders",<ref>{{cite web<br />
| url=http://broadwayworld.com/article/Holiday_Wonders_Chinese_Meets_West_Extravaganza_20071115<br />
| work=Broadway World<br />
| first=Beau<br />
| last=Higgins<br />
| date=15 November 2007<br />
| accessdate=5 September 2009<br />
| title='Holiday Wonders' Chinese Meets West Extravaganza }}</ref> and "Divine Performing Arts", but now the company mostly performs under its own name "Shen Yun".<br />
<br />
==International touring==<br />
The group is composed of three performing arts companies: The New York Company, The Touring Company, and the International Company, which typically tour different parts of the world consecutively. Each year the Shen Yun Performing Arts show tours several countries, performing across Europe, North America, Oceania, and Asia. Shen Yun's shows have been staged in several leading stages, including New York’s [[Radio City Music Hall]], London’s [[Royal Festival Hall]], Washington DC’s [[Kennedy Center]], and Paris’ Le [[Palais des congrès de Paris|Palais de Congrès]]<ref name="denverpost" /><br />
<ref name="ET_WorldTour">{{cite web | url=http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/features/dpa/ | work=[[Epoch Times]] | accessdate=5 September 2009 | title=Shen Yun Performing Arts 2009 World tour special coverage }}</ref> The Chinese embassy in the United States accused NTDTV and Shen Yun Performing Arts of being used to "spread anti-China propaganda" and "distorting Chinese culture".<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/gyzg/t397390.htm |title=Enjoy the Holidays and Stay away from the so-called "Chinese New Year Gala" of the New Tang Dynasty Television |work=Chinese Embassy in the United States of America |date=7 January 2008}}</ref><br />
<br />
In late January 2010, the government of Hong Kong refused entry visas for members of the production crew for the troupe's performances scheduled between 27 and 31 January, saying that "work visas were considered case by case", and said the applicant generally had to offer expertise not easily found locally; the troupe cancelled the performances which it claimed to have been sold out. [[Democratic Party (Hong Kong)|Democratic Party]] chairman [[Albert Ho]] said the denial of the visas was a worrying new erosion of Hong Kong's freedoms, and damaged the reputation of Hong Kong as a liberal and open society.<ref>[http://www.mysinchew.com/node/34582 Falungong decries HK as democracy row deepens], SinChew.com 27 January 2010 (AFP)</ref><br />
<br />
==Reception==<br />
The ''[[San Francisco Chronicle]]'', ''[[Denver Post]]'' and ''[[San Francisco Bay Times]]'' billed the show positively, the Chronicle exploring scenes in the performance depicting Falun Gong.<ref name="sfgate"/><ref name="sfbaytimes"/> Richard Connema, San Francisco critic for [[Talkin' Broadway]], described the Shen Yun performance as "absolutely fantastic."<ref name="ept">{{Cite news | title =Theater Critic Calls DPA 'Mind-Blowing' | newspaper =[[The Epoch Times]] | year = | date =10 January 2009| url =http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/10104/}}{{Verify credibility|date=November 2009}}</ref> Opera Online described one performance as "simply astounding to watch and a pleasure to the ear."<ref name="operaonline">{{cite web | url=http://www.operaonline.us/mythslegends_001.htm | work=[[Opera Online]] | accessdate=15 November 2009 | title=Boston welcomes Year of the Dog with Gala multi-cultural celebration at Cutler Majestic }}</ref><br />
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However, several other reviewers have said that past Shen Yun shows were not advertised as being inspired by Falun Gong, yet contained scenes depicting the persecution of its practitioners in China: a heavily critical piece in ''The New York Times'' in 2008 raised these objections about allegedly misleading promotion;<ref name="nyt">{{Cite news | last =Konigsberg | first =Eric | title =A Glimpse of Chinese Culture That Some Find Hard to Watch | newspaper =[[The New York Times]] | year = | date =6 February 2008| url =http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/06/nyregion/06splendor.html?_r=1&oref=slogin}}</ref> similar observations were made by the ''Daily Telegraph'', whose reviewer dubbed it "propaganda as entertainment," and criticising what she called the show's "politically motivated" content.<ref name="telegr"/> Susan Walker of the ''Toronto Star'' reported that the show was "heavily laden" with Falun Gong references, and called it "mere propaganda".<ref name="star20080120"/> ''The Guardian'' gave a negative review, arguing that the acts of the show depicting Falun Gong came off as "evangelical" and were a net detraction.<ref name='guardian'>{{cite web|url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2008/feb/25/dance |title=Dance review: Shen Yun Royal Festival Hall, London |first=Judith |last=Mackrell |work= The Guardian |date=25 February 2008 |accessdate=1 April 2009 }}</ref> In the ''New York Times'' article, Maria Hsia Chang from the [[University of Nevada, Reno|University of Nevada]] said the show "is kind of a [[public relations|P.R.]] front to try to normalize Falun Gong’s image".<ref name=nyt/><br />
Colin Dabkowski of the ''Buffalo News'' most recently stated that "the promoters and creators of “Shen Yun,” who have picked up a reputation for misrepresentation and deception over the years, have adopted the questionable propagandist tactics of the very government they criticize in their productions. My repeated requests to interview a member of the company, or anyone associated with the production, were declined – a further indication of the group’s tight message control.<ref name='buffallownews'>{{cite web|url=http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/05/30/1066022/songdance-spectacular-not-exactly.html#comment |title=Song & dance spectacular not exactly what it seems |first=Colin |last=Dabkowski |work= Buffalo News |date=30 May 2010 |accessdate=21 June 2010 }}</ref><br />
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==See also==<br />
{{Portal|Falun Gong}}<br />
*[[Dance in the United States]]<br />
*[[Falun Dafa]]<br />
*[[Epoch Times]]<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{Reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
* [http://www.ShenYunPerformingArts.org/ Shen Yun Performing Arts]<br />
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{{Falun Gong}}<br />
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[[Category:Falun Gong]]<br />
[[Category:Dance in the United States]]<br />
[[Category:Entertainment companies of the United States]]<br />
[[Category:Companies based in New York]]<br />
[[Category:Companies established in 2006]]<br />
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[[ja:神韻]]<br />
[[zh:神韻藝術團]]</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falun_Gong&diff=369473754Falun Gong2010-06-22T01:55:01Z<p>Hmm...: /* History in China */</p>
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<div>{{Chinese|title=Falun Gong|t=法輪功|s=法轮功<br />
|l='''Practice of the Wheel of Law'''<br />
|p= Fǎlún Gōng|j=fat2 lun4 gung1|<br />
altname=Falun Dafa|t2=法輪大法|s2=法轮大法<br />
|l2='''Great Law of the Wheel of Law'''<br />
|p2= Fǎlún Dàfǎ|j2=fat2 lun4 daai6 fat2<br />
|pic=Falun Gong Logo.svg<br />
|piccap=The Falun Dafa emblem<br />
|picsize=150px|Image size=150px<br />
piccap2=Falun, the emblem of Falun Dafa}}<br />
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{{POV-check|date=May 2010}}<br />
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'''Falun Gong''' (alternatively '''Falun Dafa''') is a system of beliefs and practices founded in China by [[Li Hongzhi]] in 1992. The practice emerged at the end of China's "''[[qigong]]'' boom", a period of growth and popularity of similar practices. Falun Gong differs from other ''qigong'' schools in its absence of daily rituals of worship,<ref name="Haar">{{cite web|url=http://website.leidenuniv.nl/~haarbjter/faluntext3.html|title=Evaluation and Further References|last=Haar|first=Barendter|accessdate=21 December 2009|quote=One difference between the Falun Gong and traditional groups is the absence of rituals of daily worship or rites of passage (...) Striking differences are also the degree of self-consciousness about outside critics already preceding the persecutions from April 1999 onwards}}</ref> its greater emphasis on morality, and the theological nature of its teachings.<ref name="radio">''[http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s283930.htm Falun Gong: Cult or Culture?]'', ABC Radio National, 22 April 2001. Quote: "''That the teacher, the leader, is regarded as being greater and more powerful than normal human beings; that the things that that teacher says are taken as truer and more real and more powerful than anything else, anybody else says, and that there is a well developed, I would call theology, but possibly doctrine, that includes morality, practice and a whole complete world view. So it looks like a religion to me.''"</ref><ref name=smith>{{cite news | title=THE WORLD: Rooting Out Falun Gong; China Makes War on Mysticism | author=Craig S. Smith | work=[[New York Times]] | date=30 April 2000 | url=http://www.nytimes.com/2000/04/30/weekinreview/the-world-rooting-out-falun-gong-china-makes-war-on-mysticism.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all }}</ref> Western academics have described Falun Gong as a "spiritual movement" based on the teachings of its founder<ref name="Jude Howell">{{cite book |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=H80YZqSj7EEC&pg=PP1&dq=Governance+in+China+~+Jude+Howell#v=onepage&q=&f=false |title=Governance in China |editor= Jude Howell |first=Clemens Stubbe |last=Østergaard |pages=214–223 (Governance and the Political Challenge of Falun Gong) |year=2003 |isbn=0742519880 |publisher=Rowman & Littlefield Publishers |location=Lanham, Md.}}</ref>, a "cultivation system" in the tradition of Chinese antiquity,<ref name="pennyharrold" /> and sometimes a [[new religious movement]] (NRM). Falun Gong places a heavy emphasis on morality in its central tenets - Truthfulness, Compassion, and Forbearance ({{zh|c=真、善、忍}}).<ref>Frank, Adam. (2004) Falun Gong and the threat of history. in Gods, guns, and globalization: religious radicalism and international political economy edited by Mary Ann Tétreault, Robert Allen Denemark, Lynne Rienner Publishers, 2004, ISBN 1588262537, pp 241-243</ref> Its teachings are derived from [[qigong]], [[Buddhist]] and [[Taoist]] concepts.<ref name="pennyharrold">Benjamin Penny, [http://www.nla.gov.au/grants/haroldwhite/papers/bpenny.html The Past, Present, and Future of Falun Gong], 2001, accessed 16/3/08, Quote: "''The best way to describe Falun Gong is as a cultivation system. Cultivation systems have been a feature of Chinese life for at least 2 500 years'' //"</ref><ref name="CRS2006"/><ref name="isreligion">[http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/052305/Ownby.php Statement of Professor David Ownby], ''Unofficial Religions in China: Beyond the Party's Rules'', 2005. Quote: "''The history of Falun Gong, and of the larger qigong movement from which Falun Gong emerged (...) The Falun Gong emerged in 1992, toward the end of the boom, and was in fact one of the least flamboyant of the schools of qigong''"</ref><ref name=Ownbyming>Ownby, David, "A History for Falun Gong: Popular Religion and the Chinese State Since the Ming Dynasty", Nova Religio, Vol., pp. 223-243</ref><br />
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The movement grew rapidly in China between 1992 and 1999. Government sources indicated that there may have been as many as 70 million Falun Gong practitioners in the country by 1998.<ref name="70million">{{cite news |work=New York Times |url=http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9507E7D9173DF934A15757C0A96F958260 |title=Notoriety Now for Movement's Leader |author=Joseph Kahn |date=27 April 1999}}</ref> In the mid-1990s the proliferation of ''qigong'' practices generated attention from Chinese journalists, skeptics, and scientists; reports critical of ''qigong'' appeared in the Chinese media, some of which were aimed at Falun Gong.<ref name="Haar"/><ref name="Ownby-2008-p15">Ownby 2008, p. 15</ref><ref name="Rahn2002">Rahn, Patsy (2002) “The Chemistry of a Conflict: The Chinese Government and the Falun Gong” in ''Terrorism and Political Violence'', Winter, 2002, Vol 14, No. 4 (London: Frank Cass Publishers)[http://www.culticstudiesreview.org/csr_member/mem_articles/rahn_patsy_crs0202m.htm reprinted in Cultic Studies Review, subscription required]</ref> Falun Gong practitioners responded to critics through peaceful protests, attempting to address perceived unfair media treatment.<ref name="Ownby-2008-p15" /> In April 1999, after one such protest in Tianjin, some 10,000 practitioners gathered at [[Zhongnanhai]], the residence compound of China's leaders, in silent protest, while representatives reportedly negotiated with CCP officials.<ref>Controversial New Religions, The Falun Gong: A New Religious Movement in Post-Mao China, David Ownby P.195 ISBN 0195156838</ref><ref name="ReidG">Reid, Graham (29 Apr-5 May 2006) [http://www.listener.co.nz/issue/3442/features/5972/nothing_left_to_lose.html "Nothing left to lose"], ''New Zealand Listener''. Retrieved 6 July 2006.</ref><ref name="Schechter">Danny Schechter, ''Falun Gong's Challenge to China: Spiritual Practice or Evil Cult?'', Akashic books: New York, 2001, p. 66</ref><br />
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In July 1999, the [[Chinese Communist Party]] (CCP) banned Falun Gong and began a nationwide crackdown and multifaceted propaganda campaign against the practice; in October 1999 it declared Falun Gong an "evil cult."<ref name="CRS2006">{{cite web | url = http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/67820.pdf | title = CRS Report for Congress: China and Falun Gong | publisher = [[Congressional Research Service]] | author = Thomas Lum | date = 25 May 2006|format=PDF}}</ref><ref name="Amnesty1">{{cite web|url=http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engASA170112000 |title=China: The crackdown on Falun Gong and other so-called "heretical organizations"|date=23 March 2000|publisher=Amnesty International|accessdate=17 March 2010}}</ref><ref name="wildgrass">Johnson, Ian, ''Wild Grass: three portraits of change in modern china'', Vintage (8 March 2005)</ref> Human rights groups report that Falun Gong practitioners in China are subject to a wide range of [[human rights]] abuses.<ref name = "UN.org-2004">United Nations (4 February 2004) [http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2004/hrcn1073.doc.htm Press Release HR/CN/1073]. Retrieved 12 September 2006.</ref> Falun Gong practitioners continue to levy charges against the CCP, lobbying Western governments and handing out information about the ill-treatment of practitioners, highlighting arbitrary arrests and imprisonment, [[Organ harvesting in the People's Republic of China|organ harvesting]], forced labor, and torture at the hands of the Chinese security forces.<ref name=sunnygalli>Sunny Y. Lu, MD, PhD, and Viviana B. Galli, MD, “Psychiatric Abuse of Falun Gong Practitioners in China”, ''J Am Acad Psychiatry Law'', 30:126–30, 2002</ref><ref name=munro2002>Robin J. Munro, "Judicial Psychiatry in China and its Political Abuses", ''Columbia Journal of Asian Law'', [[Columbia University]], Volume 14, Number 1, Fall 2000, p 114</ref><ref name=bejesky/> Falun Gong practitioners have founded media outlets (the [[Epoch Times]] and [[New Tang Dynasty Television]]), to publicize their cause and criticize the Chinese government, and the group has emerged as a prominent voice opposing the CCP.<ref>{{cite news | url= http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119508926438693540.html | title = Wall Street Journal: Chinese dissidents take on Beijing via Media Empire | date = 15 November 2007 | author=Chen, Kathy | work = Wall Street Journal |accessdate= 21 December 2009 }}</ref><br />
<br />
==Beliefs and teachings==<br />
{{Main|Teachings of Falun Gong}}<br />
[[File:Falun Dafa the fifth exercise, meditation7.jpg|left|thumb|250px|Practising the fifth exercise of Falun Dafa in Thailand.]]<br />
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Falun Gong emerged towards the end of the rapid proliferation of ''qigong'' practices in China, often called the "''[[qigong]]'' boom." ''Qigong'' refers to a wide variety of traditional "cultivation" practices that involve slow movement and/or regulated breathing. Practice may be for the purpose of healing or health maintenance, or in martial arts or spiritual pursuits. In contrast to attitudes in the West, where ''qigong'' may be construed as a subjective, New Age-style concept incapable of scientific proof, a segment of China's scientific establishment regarded ''[[qi]]'' as a scientific concept. Controlled experiments by the Chinese Academy of Sciences in the late 1970s and early 1980s "proved" that qi, when emitted by a qigong expert, "actually constitutes measurable infrared electromagnetic waves and causes chemical changes in static water through mental concentration."<ref>David Aikman, American Spectator, March 2000, Vol. 33, Issue 2</ref><br />
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Falun Gong was introduced to the public by [[Li Hongzhi]] ({{lang|zh|李洪志}}) in [[Changchun]], China, in 1992. Its teachings cover spiritual, religious, mystical and metaphysical topics, placing emphasis on morality and virtue (''de''). The practice also promises health benefits to the practitioner. The three central tenets of the Falun Gong system are 'Truthfulness' ({{lang|zh|眞}}), 'Compassion' ({{lang|zh|善}}), and 'Forbearance' ({{lang|zh|忍}}). Together, these three ideas are regarded as the fundamental characteristics of the cosmos. In the process of "cultivation," practitioners are supposed to assimilate themselves to these qualities by letting go of "attachments and notions," thus returning to the "original, true self." In ''Zhuan Falun'' ({{lang|zh|轉法輪}}),<ref name=ZF>Zhuan Falun, [http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/zflus.html Zhuan Falun], accessed 31/12/07</ref> the foundational text published in late 1994, Li Hongzhi says that "As a practitioner, if you assimilate yourself to this characteristic [sic], you are one that has attained the [[Tao]]."<br />
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''Falun Gong'' is an introductory book that discusses ''qigong'', introduces the aforementioned principles, and provides illustrations and explanations of the exercises and meditation. The main body of teachings is articulated in the core book ''Zhuan Falun''. According to the texts, Falun Gong (or Falun Dafa) is a "complete system of mind-body cultivation practice" ({{lang|zh|修煉}} ''xiulian'').<ref name=C1>Characteristics of Falun Dafa, [http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/zflus.html Zhuan Falun], accessed 31/12/07</ref><br />
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Falun Gong is a multifaceted and totalizing movement that means different things to different people, ranging from a set of physical exercises and a praxis of transformation to a moral philosophy and a new knowledge system, according to Zhao Yuezhi, a communications professor. It exhibits quasi-religious, fundamentalist, and conservative sensibilities, articulating a mixture of premodern, modern, and postmodern thought. Falun Gong has also been described as a Buddhist revival movement "with all that entails: passion, talk of miracles... individualism, and a reflexive mistrust of establishments and outside agendas."<ref name=gutmann_carrytorch/> Falun Gong practitioners have established a "resistance identity"—one that stands against prevailing pursuits of wealth, power, scientific rationality, and "the entire value system associated with the project of modernization."<ref name="zhao">{{cite book |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=tiFY59xGHBkC&pg=PA209&dq=Falun+Gong,+Identity,+and+the+Struggle+over+Meaning+Inside+and+Outside+China&client=firefox-a&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Falun%20Gong%2C%20Identity%2C%20and%20the%20Struggle%20over%20Meaning%20Inside%20and%20Outside%20China&f=false |last=Zhao |first=Yuezhi |title=Falun Gong, Identity, and the Struggle over Meaning Inside and Outside China |pages=209–223 in Contesting Media Power: Alternative Media in a Networked World, ed. Nick Couldry and James Curran |publisher=Rowman & Littlefield publishers, inc. |year=2003 |quote=the most dramatic episode in the contestation over media power in the Chinese language symbolic universe.}}</ref><br />
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At the same time, Falun Gong presents itself as a virtuous form of self-cultivation which draws on Oriental mysticism and traditional Chinese medicine, criticizes the purportedly self-imposed limits of modern science, and views traditional Chinese science as an entirely different, yet equally valid knowledge system.<ref name="zhao"/> Some of Li's more outlandish claims, and his statements indicative of a conservative morality, have been a cause of some controversy for Falun Gong. (See [[Falun_Gong#Controversies|controversies]]).<br />
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Traditional Chinese cultural thought and modernity are two focuses of Li Hongzhi's teachings.<ref>Kai-Ti Chou, ''Contemporary Religious Movements in Taiwan: Rhetorics of Persuasion.'' Edwin Mellen Press, 2008. ISBN 0-7734-5241-9. pp. 186-187 and pp. 152-165</ref> Falun Gong echoes traditional Chinese beliefs that humans are connected to the universe through mind and body, and Li seeks to challenge "conventional mentalities", attempting to unveil myths of the universe, time-space, and the human body.<ref>Schechter 2001, pp. 47-50</ref><br />
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The Falun Gong teachings use numerous untranslated Chinese religious and philosophical terms, and make frequent allusion to characters and incidents in Chinese folk literature and concepts drawn from Chinese popular religion.<ref name="Lowe 2003, pp. 275-276">Lowe 2003, pp. 275-276</ref> Li's assumptions about the metaphysical structure of reality are also different from those of most Westerners, and conflict with a wide range of scientific and materialist viewpoints.<ref name="Lowe 2003, pp. 275-276"/> This, coupled with the literal translation style of the texts, which imitate the tone and cadences of Li’s colloquial Chinese speech, make Falun Gong scriptures difficult to approach for Westerners.<ref name="Lowe 2003, pp. 275-276"/><br />
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Falun Gong represents an indigenous spiritual, moral, and health movement opposite to "Marxism with Chinese characteristics," according to Sumner B. Twiss.<ref name="twiss">Twiss, Sumner B. "Religious Intolerance in Contemporary China, Including the Curious Case of Falun Gong" in The World's Religions After September 11 / edited by Arvind Sharma, Greenwood Publishing, 2009 pp. 227-240</ref><br />
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While Li discusses millennial themes, Falun Gong's organizational structure works against totalistic control, with no hierarchy in place to enforce orthodoxy and little or no emphasis on dogmatic discipline. There is no membership, and practitioners are free to participate as much or as little as they like; the only thing emphasized is the need for strict moral behavior, according to Craig Burgdoff, a professor of religious studies. He expresses concerns over Li Hongzhi's totalizing discourse, but says this is tempered by having found "practitioners to be engaged seriously in a highly disciplined spiritual and ethical practice."<ref name=burgdoff>Burgdoff, Craig A. How Falun Gong Practice Undermines Li Hongzhi's Totalistic Rhetoric. Nova Religio Apr 2003, Vol. 6, No. 2 332–347</ref><br />
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==History in China==<br />
{{Main|History of Falun Gong}}<br />
[[Image:UNGenevaFalunDafaLecture.jpg|thumb|right|175px|Li Hongzhi lectures on Falun Dafa at the [[United Nations General Assembly|UN General Assembly Hall]], [[Geneva]], 1998]]<br />
[[Li Hongzhi]] introduced Falun Gong to the public in May 1992, in [[Changchun]], [[Jilin]] Province.<ref>[http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2004/10/8/53286.html A Chronicle of Major Historic Events during the Introduction of Falun Dafa to the Public]</ref> Early versions of ''Zhuan Falun'' stated that the system was tested extensively in the years prior to its introduction, and included a hagiographic spiritual biography of Li Hongzhi which was later withdrawn from circulation.<br />
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Li Hongzhi claims that he was taught ways of "cultivation practice" by several masters of the [[Taoism|Dao]] and [[Buddhism|Buddhist]] traditions, including Quan Jue, the 10th Heir to the Great Law of the Buddha School, a Taoist master from age eight to twelve, and a master of the Great Way School with the Taoist alias of ''True Taoist'' from the [[Changbai Mountains]]. In his religious biography, which draws on and is considered a contemporary rewriting of an ancient tradition,<ref>Penny 2003, p. 653</ref> Li is claimed able to perform a variety of supernatural feats, including invisibility, levitation, and weather modification.<ref name=Zfl>[http://www.trinity.edu/rnadeau/Chinese%20Religions/Li%20Hongzhi.htm A Short Biography of Mr. Li Hongzhi], Chinese Law and Government v. 32 no. 6 (Nov./Dec. 1999) p. 14-23 ISSN: 0009-4609</ref> During its anti-Falun Gong propaganda campaign the Chinese authorities countered these claims, asserting that Li was merely a former army trumpet player and grain clerk at the Changchun Cereals Company,<ref name=birthdate>[http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/english/199907/23/enc_19990723001031_Opinion.html Why Li Hongzhi changes his birthdate], People's Daily, 23 July 1999</ref> having plagiarised Falun Gong from existing qigong systems.<ref name="Penny2005">Penny, Benjamin, “The Falun Gong, Buddhism and ‘Buddhist qigong’”, ''Asian Studies Review'' March 2005, Vol 29, pp.35-46.</ref><!--quote: p651 "The attacks on Li’s biography by the Chinese government focused on three specific points… The final specific attack related to the development of the falun gong exercises. The press release claims that Li made up falun gong on the basis of two other qigong systems he had learnt– chanmigong and jiugong bagua gong" --><br />
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Like many ''qigong'' masters at the time, Li toured major cities in China from 1992 to 1994 to teach the practice; he was granted a number of awards by Chinese governmental organizations.<ref name="Zfl"/><ref name=Fellow>The Past, Present and Future of Falun Gong, A lecture by Harold White Fellow, Benjamin Penny, at the National Library of Australia, Canberra, 2001, [http://www.nla.gov.au/grants/haroldwhite/papers/bpenny.html], accessed 31/12/07</ref><ref>{{cite news| url = http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/special_column/recognition.html | title = Governmental Awards and Recognition of Falun Dafa |accessdate = 1 August 2006 | publisher = Falun Dafa ClearWisdom.net}}</ref> According to David Ownby, Professor of History and Director of the Center for East Asian Studies at the Université de Montréal, neither Li nor Falun Gong were particularly controversial in the beginning;<ref name="Ownbyworld">David Ownby, "The Falun Gong in the New World," European Journal of East Asian Studies, Sep2003, Vol. 2 Issue 2, p 306</ref> Li became an "instant star of the qigong movement," and the movement enjoyed success and rapid growth.<ref name="Ownbyworld"/><br />
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[[Image:PrePersecutionFalunDafaPracticeinChina.jpg|thumb|left|230px|Group practice in China before the events of July 1999]]<br />
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Li made his lectures more widely accessible and affordable in later years, charging less than competing ''qigong'' systems for lectures, tapes, and books.<ref name="Schechter"/> On 4 January 1995, ''[[Teachings of Falun Gong#Zhuan Falun, the Main Book of Falun Gong|Zhuan Falun]]'', the main book on Falun Gong, was published and became a best-seller in China.<ref name="Schechter"/> In the face of Falun Gong's rise in popularity, a large part of which was attributed to its low cost, competing ''qigong'' masters accused Li of unfair business practices. According to Schechter, the ''qigong'' society under which Li and other ''qigong'' masters belonged asked Li to hike his tuition, but Li refused.<ref name="Schechter"/> By 1995, Falun Gong had established, according to Lowe, a clear advantage over alternative ''qigong'' groups in its emphasis on morality and life philosophies, low cost, and its benefits to practitioners' health, and rapidly spread via word-of-mouth.<ref name=Lowe>Scott Lowe, Chinese and International Contexts for the Rise of Falun Gong, Nova Religio April 2003, Vol. 6, No. 2</ref> Its rapid growth within China was also related to family ties and community relationships,<ref name=Lowe/> attracting a wide range of adherents from all walks of life - including numerous members of the Chinese Communist Party.<ref name=lum>Thomas Lum, [http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/RL33437.pdf Congressional Research Report #RL33437], Congressional Research Service, 11 August 2006</ref><br />
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===Criticism and response===<br />
The rapid rise and influence of Falun Gong received little journalistic attention until mid-1996. At that time articles critical of Falun Gong began to appear, a sign that China’s media and ideological establishment had begun considering Falun Gong’s influence on society.<ref name="zhao"/> On June 17, 1996, a week after Zhuan Falun Volume II was listed the no.10 best selling at a Beijing book market, the ''Guangming Daily'', an influential national newspaper, published a polemic against Falun Gong.<ref name=palmer.fever249>Palmer (2007), p 249</ref><ref name=Ownbyfuture>David Ownby, Falun Gong and the Future of China (2008) Oxford University Press</ref> The author wrote that the history of humanity is a "struggle between science and superstition," and called on Chinese publishers not to print "pseudo-scientific books of the swindlers."<ref name=palmer.fever249>Palmer (2007), p 249</ref> The article cited Zhuan Falun as an example of the rising number of publications ridden with "feudal superstition" (''fengjian mixin'') and "pseudoscience" (''wei kexue'').<ref name="Jude Howell" />{{rp|215}} The article set off a wave of press criticism, with twenty major newspapers also issuing criticisms of Falun Gong. Soon after, on July 24, the Central Propaganda Department banned all publication of Falun Gong books - though the ban was not enforced consistently.<ref name=palmer.fever249>Palmer (2007), p 249</ref><br />
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The events were an important challenge to Falun Gong, which practitioners did not take lightly.<ref>Ownby 2008, p. 168</ref> Thousands of Falun Gong followers wrote to ''Guangming Daily'' and to the CQRS to complain against the measures, claiming that they violated [[Hu Yaobang]]'s 1982 'Triple No' directive.<ref name=palmer.fever249>Palmer (2007), p. 249</ref> Li made statements that activism to defend Falun Gong was an essential aspect of Dafa cultivation, and, according to David Palmer, adjunct professor of anthropology and religious studies at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, "would separate the false disciples from the true ones."<ref name=palmer.fever249>Palmer (2007), pg249f</ref> Until this juncture, Falun Gong had successfully negotiated the space between science and native tradition in the public representation of its teachings, avoiding any suggestion of superstition.<ref name=jensen>Edward L. Davis, Encyclopedia of contemporary Chinese culture, Falun Gong (by Lionel M. Jensen), pp. 251-263</ref><br />
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Falun Gong was not the only target of the domestic media criticism, nor the only group to protest, but theirs was the most mobilised and steadfast response.<ref name="zhao"/> Many of Falun Gong's attempts for positive, or non-negative media portrayal were successful, resulting in the retraction of several newspaper stories critical of Falun Gong. This contributed to practitioners' belief that the media claims against them were false or exaggerated, and that their stance was justified.<ref>Ownby 2008, p. 170</ref> Falun Gong books remained officially proscribed, however.<br />
<br />
In June 1998, Tianjin professor [[He Zuoxiu]], an outspoken critic of qigong, appeared on a talk show on [[Beijing Television]] and openly disparaged ''qigong'' groups, making particular mention of Falun Gong.<ref name=smith2>{{cite web |first=Craig S. |last=Smith |title=Revered by Millions, a Potent Mystic Rattles China's Communist Leaders |page=1 |work=Wall Street Journal |date=26 April 1999 |url=http://www.tibet.ca/en/newsroom/wtn/archive/old?y=1999&m=5&p=5_3 }}c/o third party link</ref> Falun Gong practitioners responded with peaceful protests, which was considered audacious under the circumstances,<ref name=Ownby2008 /> and lobbying of the station. The reporter responsible for the program was reportedly fired, and a program favorable to Falun Gong was aired several days later.<ref name="Jude Howell" />{{rp|215}}<ref name="spie">{{cite book|last=Human Right Watch|coauthors=M Spiegel|title=Dangerous meditation: China's campaign against Falungong|location=New York|year=2001|page=9|accessdate=15 December 2009}}</ref> Falun Gong practitioners also mounted peaceful demonstrations at 14 other media outlets.<ref name="Jude Howell" /> The Beijing Television incident resulted in directives from authorities to cease publishing content critical of Falun Gong to "ensure stability" in the lead-up to the ten-year anniversary of the [[Tiananmen Square protests of 1989]].<ref name=smith2/><br />
<br />
===Tianjin and Zhongnanhai protests===<br />
[[Image:April25Zhognanhai.jpg|thumb|right|200px|Practitioners of Falun Gong protest peacefully outside the [[Zhongnanhai]] compound.]]<br />
In April 1999, He Zuoxiu published a short editorial in the [[Tianjin Normal University]]'s ''Youth Reader'' magazine. Elaborating on what he had said months earlier on Beijing Television, he again attacked ''qigong'' groups that purport to give people supernatural powers and heal disease.<ref name=hezuoxiu>{{cite web|url=http://www.cnfxj.org/Html/lgxd/2007-6/24/165513641.html#|title=I do not agree with Youth Practicing ''Qigong'' (我不赞成青少年炼气功)|author=[[He Zuoxiu]]|language=Chinese|year=1999}}</ref> He said that he was particularly opposed to ''qigong'' practice among youth, that "qigong-related trance and delusions" could affect students for a lifetime, and made special mention of a case where a student of his, allegedly having practiced Falun Gong, refused to "talk, eat, sleep, or drink" as a result. He compared Falun Gong practitioners to the ignorant and superstitious [[Boxer Rebellion|Boxers]].<ref name=hezuoxiu/> Falun Gong practitioners claimed the case that He cited as evidence of the dangers of Falun Gong was erroneous since the individual was not a practitioner,<ref>Ownby (2008), p. 169</ref> or otherwise "highly offensive."<ref name=palmer.fever267/> He's article and the response to it marked the beginning of the dramatic public struggle between Falun Gong practitioners and the Chinese state over the legitimacy of Falun Gong practice.<ref name=conflictman>{{cite book|coauthors=Guo-Ming Chen, Ringo Ma|title=Chinese conflict management and resolution|publisher=Greenwood Publishing Group|year=2002|isbn=9781567506433|url=http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hJu-eW7aYFUC&q=Falun+Gong&source=gbs_word_cloud_r&cad=3#v=snippet&q=Falun%20Gong&f=false}}</ref> Because the Falun Gong had no access to mass media, practitioners resorted to other symbolic forms, such as protests, to appeal to government officials and the public.<ref name=conflictman/><br />
<br />
After the article was published practitioners gathered to protest in meditation posture outside the editorial office of the publication in Tianjin,<ref name=palmer.fever267 /> and sent petitions and appeals to the Tianjin party headquarters and municipal government for the retraction of He's piece. According to Falun Gong sources, the magazine editors initially agreed to publish a "correction," but then changed their attitude and refused to do so.<ref name=palmer.fever267/> Within days those gathered had swelled to the thousands. Three hundred riot police were sent to disperse the crowd, some of the practitioners were beaten, and forty-five arrested.<ref name="Schechter"/><ref name=palmer.fever267/><ref name="Ownby 2008, p. 171">Ownby (2008), p. 171</ref> Hundreds then marched to the munipical government to demand their liberation.<ref name="Schechter"/><ref name=palmer.fever267>Palmer (2007), p. 267</ref> For Palmer, the Tianjin protest was another sign of Falun Gong's "militancy"; for Gutmann, it was because "refuting lies" is a central part of Falun Gong's moral system.<ref name=gutmannfuyou>Ethan Gutmann, An Occurrence on Fuyou Street, National Review 07/13/2009</ref> They were told that the police action had been carried out on orders from the Ministry of Public Security,<ref name=palmer.fever267/> and that those arrested could only be released with the approval of Beijing authorities.<ref name="Ownby 2008, p. 171"/><ref>Schechter (2000), p.69</ref><br />
<br />
On 25 April, around ten thousand Falun Gong practitioners lined the streets near [[Zhongnanhai]], the residence compound of China's leaders, in silent protest. It was Falun Gong practitioners' attempt to seek redress from the leadership of the country by going to them and, "albeit very quietly and politely, making it clear that they would not be treated so shabbily."<ref name="pennyharrold" /> Many Falun Gong practitioners were party members, who openly lobbied for the group. While Falun Gong's pre-1999 political involvement is difficult to verify, no other disenfranchised group has ever staged a mass protest near the [[Zhongnanhai]] compound in PRC history. The incident raised questions about the Party's control over the country.<ref name=lestz>Michael Lestz, [http://www.trincoll.edu/depts/csrpl/RINVol2No3/Falun%20Gong.htm Why Smash the Falun Gong?], Religion in the News, Fall 1999, Vol. 2, No. 3, Trinity College, Hartford, Connecticut</ref><br />
<br />
A ''World Journal'' report suggested that certain high-level Party officials wanted to crack down on the practice for years, but lacked sufficient pretext until the protest at Zhongnanhai, which they claim was partly orchestrated by [[Luo Gan]], a long-time opponent of Falun Gong.<ref name = "Ching-Gong">Julia Ching, "The Falun Gong: Religious and Political Implications," American Asian Review, Vol. XIX, no. 4, Winter 2001, p 2</ref> There were also reportedly rifts in the [[Politburo of the Communist Party of China|Politburo]] at the time of the incident. Some reports indicate that Premier [[Zhu Rongji]] met with Falun Gong representatives and gave them satisfactory answers, but was criticized by General Secretary and President [[Jiang Zemin]] for being "too soft."<ref name=Schechter/> Jiang is held by Falun Gong to be personally responsible for the final decision:<ref name=peerman>Dean Peerman, [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_16_121/ai_n8702386/pg_4 China syndrome: the persecution of Falun Gong], Christian Century, 10 August 2004</ref><ref name=Saich>Tony Saich, ''Governance and Politics in China,'' Palgrave Macmillan; 2nd Ed edition (27 Feb 2004)</ref> Peerman cited reasons such as suspected personal jealousy of Li Hongzhi;<ref name=peerman/> Saich postulates at party leaders' anger at Falun Gong's widespread appeal, and ideological struggle.<ref name=Saich/><br />
<br />
===The ban===<br />
On 20 July 1999, the Chinese government declared the Research Society of Falun Dafa and the Falun Gong organization under its control to be outlawed for having been "engaged in illegal activities, advocating superstition and spreading fallacies, hoodwinking people, inciting and creating disturbances, and jeopardizing social stability."<ref name=ban>[[Xinhua]], [http://english.people.com.cn/special/fagong/1999072200A101.html China Bans Falun Gong], [[People's Daily]], 22 July 1999</ref><br />
''Xinhua'' further declared that Falun Gong was a highly organised political group "opposed to the Communist Party of China and the central government, [that] preaches idealism, theism and feudal superstition."<ref name="english.peopledaily.com.cn">[http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/english/199908/02/enc_19990802001003_TopNews.html Xinhua Commentary on Political Nature of Falun Gong], People's Daily, August 2, 1999</ref> Xinhua also affirmed that "the so-called 'truth, kindness and forbearance' principle preached by Li has nothing in common with the socialist ethical and cultural progress we are striving to achieve."<ref name=hanson1999>Gayle M.B. Hanson, [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_31_15/ai_55553470 China Shaken by Mass Meditation - meditation movement Falun Gong], Insight on the News, 23 August 1999</ref><br />
<br />
In response, Li Hongzhi declared that Falun Gong did not have any particular organization, nor any political objectives.<ref name=briefstate>Li Hongzhi, [http://clearwisdom.net/emh/download/publications/peacereport_statement.html A Brief Statement of Mine], 22 July 1999, accessed 31/12/07</ref><br />
<br />
Yuezhi Zhao argues that a number of factors contributed to the souring of relations between Falun Gong and the Chinese state and media.<ref name="zhao" /> These included infighting between China’s qigong establishment and Falun Gong, speculation over blackmailing and lobbying by Li’s qigong opponents and "scientists-cum-ideologues with political motives and affiliations with competing central Party leaders," which caused the shift in the state’s position, and the struggles from mid-1996 to mid-1999 between Falun Gong, the mainstream media, and the Chinese power elite over the status and treatment of the movement.<ref name="zhao" /> While Falun Gong had some elite support, it was fundamentally at odds with official ideology, and there were individuals within the scientific, ideological, and political establishments predisposed to attacking Falun Gong in the media.<ref name="zhao" /><br />
<br />
==Statewide suppression==<br />
{{Main|Persecution of Falun Gong}}<br />
In October 1999, four months after the ban, legislation was created to outlaw "[[heterodoxy|heterodox]] religions" and applied to Falun Gong retroactively.<ref name="Leung">Leung, Beatrice (2002) 'China and Falun Gong: Party and society relations in the modern era', Journal of Contemporary China, 11:33, 761 – 784</ref> Leung remarked that the effort was driven by large-scale propaganda through television, newspapers, radio and internet.<ref name="Leung" /> According to Johnson, the campaign against Falun Gong extended to many aspects of society, including the media apparatus, police force, military, education system, and workplaces.<ref name="wildgrass" /> An extra-constitutional body, the "[[6-10 Office]]" was created to "oversee the terror campaign."<ref name="Leung" /><ref name=morais>Morais, Richard C.[http://www.forbes.com/technology/2006/02/09/falun-gong-china_cz_rm_0209falungong.html "China's Fight With Falun Gong"], ''Forbes'', February 9, 2006. Retrieved July 7, 2006.</ref><ref name=CER>[http://www.cecc.gov/pages/annualRpt/annualRpt08/CECCannRpt2008.pdf Congressional-Executive commission on China, Annual Report 2008.]</ref><br />
<br />
Within the first month of the crackdown, 300-400 articles attacking Falun Gong appeared in each of the main state-run papers, while primetime television replayed alleged exposés on the group, with no divergent views aired in the media.<ref>Leeshai Lemish, Media and New Religious Movements: The Case of Falun Gong, A paper presented at The 2009 CESNUR Conference, Salt Lake City, Utah, June 11–13, 2009</ref> Human Rights Watch (2002) noted that families and workplaces were urged to cooperate with the government's position on Falun Gong, while practitioners themselves were subject to severe coercive measures to have them recant.<ref name="dangerous">{{cite web|url=http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/CHINA0102.pdf|title=Dangerous Meditation: China's Campaign Against Falungong|last=Spiegel|first=Mickey|coauthors=Joseph Saunders, Sidney Jones, Malcolm Smart, Jim Ross|date=2002-01|publisher=Human Rights Watch|accessdate=17 March 2010}}</ref> Falun Gong practitioners were among those most harshly persecuted by the Chinese government in 2008, according to Amnesty International.<ref>Amnesty International, [http://thereport.amnesty.org/en/regions/asia-pacific/china State of the World's Human Rights report], China, 2009</ref><br />
<br />
According to Human Rights Watch, China's leaders and ruling elite were far from unified in their support for the crackdown;<ref name="dangerous"/> though James Tong suggests there was no real resistance from the Politburo. In February 2001, in an attempt to show unity, the Communist Party held a Central Work Conference and discussed Falun Gong.<ref name="dangerous"/> President and party head Jiang Zemin insisted that all seven members of the [[Politburo Standing Committee]] "testify" on the need to eradicate Falun Gong in front of some 2,000 party cadres. Under Jiang's leadership, the crackdown on Falun Gong became part of the Chinese political ethos of "upholding stability" - much the same rhetoric employed by the party during [[1989 Tiananmen Square protests|Tiananmen in 1989]]. Jiang's message was echoed at the 2001 National People's Congress, where Premier [[Zhu Rongji]] made special mention of Falun Gong in his outline of China's tenth five-year plan, saying "we must continue our campaign against the Falun Gong cult," effectively tying Falun Gong's eradication to China's economic progress.<ref name="dangerous"/><br />
<br />
===Media campaign===<br />
[[Image:Communists-against-FLG-1.gif|thumb|left|150px|The poster reads "''Firmly support the decision of the Central Committee to deal with the illegal organization of 'Falun Gong'''"]]<br />
Since October 1999, three months after the Chinese government banned Falun Gong, it has repeatedly classified the movement as a ''xiejiao'', (translated as 'evil religion' or 'evil cult')<ref name=chan2004 /><ref name=irons2003>Irons, Edward. 2003 Falun Gong and the Sectarian Religion Paradigm Nova Religio: The Journal of Alternative and Emergent Religions, Volume 6, Issue 2, pages 244-62, ISSN 1092-6690</ref><ref name=unoctcult>Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, China: Situation of Falun Gong practitioners and treatment by state authorities (2001-2005), 31 October 2005, CHN100726.EX, available at: http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/docid/4b20f02623.html [accessed 16 January 2010]</ref><!-- quote:"In October 1999, Falun Gong was declared a "cult" by state media (AFP 28 Oct. 1999; BBC 28 Oct. 1999), and a resolution banning cults was passed by the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress" deeming it harmful to social stability in China.--> and anti-Falun Gong propaganda activities dominated the Chinese media during that time as the government justifed its actions, arguing that Falun Gong practice was dangerous, and damages people's physical and mental health<ref name=gunn>[http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/hrj/iss16/gunn.shtml#fn33 The Complexity of Religion and the Definition of “Religion” in International Law]</ref> like the [[Branch Davidian]]s and [[Aum Shinrikyo]].<ref name=gunn /> This strategy was vital in the government’s logic, because such reference to cults was supposed to justify the government's actions.<ref name=powerslee/> According to China scholars Daniel Wright and Joseph Fewsmith, for several months after Falun Gong was outlawed, China Central Television's evening news contained little but anti-Falun Gong rhetoric in which academics, former followers, and ordinary citizens spoke about how "the cult" cheats its followers, separates families, damages health, and hurts social stability. The government operation was "a study in all-out demonization," they write.<ref>Fewsmith, Joseph and Daniel B. Wright. "The promise of the Revolution: stories of fulfilment and struggle in China", 2003, Rowman and Littlefield. p. 156</ref><br />
<br />
David Ownby and [[Ian Denis Johnson|Ian Johnson]] have argued that the Chinese state gave the cultic appellation to Falun Gong by borrowing arguments from [[Margaret Singer]] and the West's anti-cult movement to blunt the appeal of Falun Gong.<ref name="wildgrass"/><ref name=Ownbyfuture /> According to John Powers and Meg Y. M. Lee, because the Falun Gong was categorized in the popular perception as an "apolitical, qigong exercise club," it was not seen as a threat to the government. The most critical strategy in the Falun Gong suppression campaign, therefore, was to convince people to reclassify the Falun Gong into a number of "negatively charged religious labels,"<ref name=powerslee>Powers, John and Meg Y. M. Lee. “Dueling Media: Symbolic Conflict in China’s Falun Gong Suppression Campaign” in Chinese Conflict Management and Resolution, by Guo-Ming Chen and Ringo Ma (2001), Greenwood Publishing Group</ref> like “evil cult,” “sect,” or “superstition.” The group’s non-violent and relatively silent protests were reclassified as creating “social disturbances.” In this process of reclassification and relabelling, the government was attempting to tap into a "deep reservoir of negative feelings related to the historical role of quasi-religious cults as a destabilising force in Chinese political history."<ref name=powerslee/><br />
<br />
Chinese media adopted three strands of rhetoric in attacking Falun Gong.<ref name="Frank 2004, p. 243">Frank 2004, p. 243</ref> The first adopted the language of past "anti" campaigns to argue that Falun Gong was a threat to order; the second adopted a rhetoric of science and modernity to argue that Falun Gong threatened progress; and a third used anti-Western rhetoric to argue that Li was a "dupe of the West." It was a "multipronged attack designed to appeal to a broad cross-section of Chinese society," according to Frank.<ref name="Frank 2004, p. 243"/><br />
<br />
According to Lu Xing, associate professor of Communications at [[DePaul University]], to simply label Falun Gong as "evil" was insufficient, because it only expressed opposition to Falun Gong without explaining why Falun Gong was "evil". State propaganda then used the appeal of scientific rationalism to argue that Falun Gong's worldview was in "complete opposition to science" and communism.<ref>Lu, Xing. (2004) ''Rhetoric of the Chinese Cultural Revolution: the impact on Chinese thought, culture, and communication,'' University of South Carolina Press, p. 164</ref><ref name="Lu 2004, p. 165">Lu (2004), p. 165</ref> The ''People's Daily'' asserted on 27 July 1999, that it "was a struggle between theism and atheism, superstition and science, idealism and materialism." A polarized depiction was created where the scientific worldview was legitimized as "moral and truthful," while the Falun Gong discourse was "evil and deceptive."<ref name="Lu 2004, p. 165"/><br />
<br />
On the eve of [[Chinese New Year]] on 23 January 2001, [[Tiananmen Square self-immolation incident|seven people attempted to set themselves ablaze]] at Tiananmen Square. The official Chinese press agency, [[Xinhua News Agency]], and other state media asserted that the [[Self-immolation|self-immolators]] were practitioners while the Falun Dafa Information Center disputed this,<ref name="FDI_PressRelease">{{cite web |url=http://www.clearwisdom.net/eng/2001/jan/23/vsf012301_3.html |title=Press Statement |publisher=Falun Dafa Information Center |publisher=Clearwisdom |date=23 January 2001 |accessdate=9 February 2007}}</ref> on the grounds that the movement's teachings explicitly forbid suicide and killing,<ref name="TheIssueOfKilling">{{cite web |url=http://falundafa.org/book/eng/zfl_new_7.html#1 |title=The Issue of Killing |first=Hongzhi |last=Li |work=[[Zhuan Falun]] |publisher=Falun Dafa}}</ref> and further alleged that the event itself never happened, and was a cruel but clever piece of stunt-work.<ref name=brady08>Anne-Marie Brady, Marketing dictatorship: propaganda and thought work in contemporary China, Rowman & Littlefield, 2008</ref> The incident received international news coverage, and video footage of the burnings were broadcast later inside China by [[China Central Television]] (CCTV). Images of a 12 year old girl, Liu Siying, burning and interviews with the other participants in which they stated their belief that self-immolation would lead them to paradise were shown.<ref name="FDI_PressRelease"/><ref name=oneway>{{cite news |first=Philip P. |last=Pan |url= |title=One-Way Trip to the End in Beijing |work=International Herald Tribune |date=5 February 2001|accessdate = 9 February 2007}}</ref> Falun Gong-related commentators pointed out that the main participants' account of the incident and other aspects of the participants' behavior were inconsistent with the teachings of Falun Dafa.<ref name=WOIPFG2>{{cite web |url=http://www.upholdjustice.org/English.2/S_I_second_report.htm |title=Second Investigation Report on the 'Tiananmen Square Self-Immolation Incident |author=World Organization to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong |publisher=upholdjustice.org |date=August 2003 |accessdate= 6 February 2007}}</ref> ''Time'' reported that prior to the self-immolation incident, many Chinese had felt that Falun Gong posed no real threat, and that the state's crackdown had gone too far. After the event, however, China's media campaign against Falun Gong gained significant traction.<ref name=breakingpoint>Matthew Gornet, [http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,165163,00.html The Breaking Point], [[Time (magazine)|Time]], 25 June 2001</ref><br />
<br />
===Conversion program===<br />
According to James Tong, Professor of Political Science at the University of California and Chief Editor of the journal ''Chinese Law and Government'', the regime aimed at both coercive dissolution of the Falun Gong denomination and reform and rehabilitation of the practitioners.<ref name=tong105/> By 2000 the Party upped its campaign by sentencing "recidivist" practitioners to "[[re-education through labor]]", in an effort to have them renounce their beliefs and "transform" their thoughts.<ref name="dangerous"/> Terms were also arbitrarily extended by police, while some practitioners had ambiguous charges levied against them, such as "disrupting social order," "endangering national security," or "subverting the socialist system."<ref name=bejesky>Robert Bejesky, “Falun Gong & reeducation through labor”, ''Columbia Journal of Asian Law'', 17:2, Spring 2004, pp. 147-189</ref> According to Bejesky, the majority of long-term Falun Gong detainees were processed administratively through this system instead of the criminal justice system.<ref name="bejesky"/> Upon completion of their re-education sentences, those practitioners who refused to recant were then incarcerated in "legal education centers" set up by provincial authorities to "transform minds".<br />
<br />
This was accomplished through four program initiatives: a mass campaign of electronic and print propaganda; intensive individualized reeducation; special programmes for true believers that emphasised "internal transformation" rather than "external conformity"; and for the still defiant, punitive and rehabilitative labor reform.<ref name=tong105>Tong (2009), p. 105</ref> Human rights organizations condemned this treatment of Falun Gong practitioners, with [[Amnesty International]] declaring it politically motivated, and [[Human Rights Watch]] reporting that access to the camps was heavily restricted, while the practitioners were subject to a wide range of human rights violations, including forced labor and a wide array of physical abuses.<ref name="dangerous"/><br />
<br />
A battery of propaganda techniques were applied, according to Tong, known in official parlance as "mobile and fixed-point propaganda," seminars, "on-the-spot education," "theory guidance," and special topic discussion, through which Falun Gong practitioners were organised to study the speeches of Jiang Zemin, central government documents, and articles in major newspapers.<ref name="Tong 2009, p. 108">Tong (2009), p. 108</ref> Special propaganda troupes to repudiate Falun Gong were formed and sent to residential committees and Falun Gong practice sites.<ref name="Tong 2009, p. 108"/><br />
<br />
Much of the conversion program relied on Mao-style techniques of indoctrination and thought reform, where Falun Gong practioners were organized to view anti-Falun Gong television programs and enroll in Marxism and materialism study sessions.<ref>Tong (2009), p. 109</ref> Traditional Marxism and materialism were the core content of the sessions.<ref>Tong (2009), p. 128</ref><br />
<br />
[[Sima Nan]], a critic of perceived cults and supernaturalism, rose to prominence during the time of conversion program, being featured in newspapers and sent to state companies across the country to lecture and "smoke out [Falun Gong] members."<ref name=johnson>{{cite news |url=http://www.rickross.com/reference/fa_lun_gong/falun101.html |title=Who Ya Gonna Call? In China, Debunkers Hire a Cultbuster |work=[[The Wall Street Journal]] |first=Ian |last=Johnson |date=30 August 1999 |accessdate=21 October 2009 <!--|archivedate=1 March 2007-->}}</ref> He lectured provincial officials on the evils of superstition, and worked on a TV documentary on Falun Dafa. He was awarded a national "hero of atheism" award.<ref name=johnson/><br />
<br />
===Coercive measures===<br />
[[File:Gaorongrong small.jpg|thumb|right|150px|Gao Rongrong, in hospital after being tortured by Chinese security forces. Amnesty writes that officials had reportedly beaten her using electro-shock batons on her face and neck, causing severe blistering and eyesight problems. She was recaptured and died from abuse in custody.<ref name=Amnesty2006>[http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/POL10/001/2006/en/59ad70c9-d46f-11dd-8743-d305bea2b2c7/pol100012006en.pdf Amnesty International 2006 Annual Report]</ref><ref name=InterviewSurvivors>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eXzLlXf2IE Interviews with two survivors of the chinese labor Camps and victims of the persecution of Falun Gong.] Both since died.</ref>]]<br />
The government-sponsored image of the conversion process emphasises psychological persuasion and a variety of "soft-sell" techniques; this is the "ideal norm" in regime reports, according to Tong. Falun Gong reports, on the other hand, depict "disturbing and sinister" forms of coercion against practitioners who fail to renounce their beliefs.<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref> 14,474 cases are classified by different methods of torture in Falun Gong sources, according to Tong. Among them are cases of severe beatings; psychological torment, included forcing victims to curse Li Hongzhi, to destroy his portrait and the Falun Gong publications, or force the individual to drink alcohol and to smoke, which are contrary to Falun Gong injunctions;<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref> corporal punishment and forced intense, heavy-burden hard labor and stress positions; solitary confinement in squalid conditions;<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref> "heat treatment" including burning and freezing; electric shocks delivered to sensitive parts of the body that may result in nausea, convulsions, or fainting;<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref> "devastative" forced feeding; sticking bamboo strips into fingernails; deprivation of food, sleep, and use of toilet;<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref> rape and gang rape; asphyxiation; and threat, extortion, and termination of employment and student status.<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref><br />
<br />
Such coercive practices are seen as pervasive across the country, and condoned or promoted by the central authorities, according to those sources, Tong says.<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref> The cases "appear verifiable, as the great majority of them identify (1) the individual Falungong practitioner, often with age, occupation, and domicile; (2) the time and location that the alleged abuse took place, including not only urban districts and rural townships and villages but also specific penal institutions; and (3) the names and ranks of the alleged perpetrators. Many of these reports include lists of the names of human witnesses and descriptions of physical injuries."<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref> While Tong notes that it is clear that such behavior was officially prohibited, the publication of "persistent abusive, often brutal behavior by named individuals with their official title, place, and time of torture" for six years suggests that there is no official will to cease and desist such activities.<ref name=tong122-128>Tong (2009), p. 122-128</ref><br />
<br />
===Falun Gong response===<br />
[[Image:TiananmennBrutality.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Protesters are arrested in Tiananmen Square]]<br />
Amnesty International states that despite the crackdown many Falun Gong practitioners continued to hold exercise sessions in public, usually as a form of peaceful, silent protest against the crackdown and imprisonment; they were often attended by large numbers of people, including significant numbers of elderly and women.<ref name="Amnesty1"/> The Party declared the sessions to be "illegal assemblies;" practitioners or others who "spoke up" for the movement would be detained by officials, at the beginning for several days.<ref name="HRW1"/> This method was later seen as inadequate, because upon release, practitioners would resume protest activities.<ref name="dangerous"/> The authorities treated these practitioners as "recidivists" and saw them as particularly problematic.<br />
<br />
Despite Beijing's heavy hand against practitioners, protests continued well into 2000. According to ''Time'' magazine, a Falun Gong website editorial instructed followers to "step up" demonstrations, "especially in Tiananmen Square". Founder [[Li Hongzhi]] urged followers to immobilize the police and other "evil scoundrels" through use of supernatural powers.<ref name=breakingpoint>{{cite news |first=Matthew |last=Gornet |url=http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,165163,00.html |title=The Breaking Point |work=[[Time (magazine)|Time]] |date=25 June 2001}}</ref> [[Tiananmen Square]] thus became one of the prime locations where practitioners routinely demonstrated despite government deterrence. By 25 April 2000, within one year after the demonstration at Zhongnanhai, a total of more than 30,000 practitioners were arrested there,<ref name="johnson2000">{{cite web |url=http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/6464 |title=Defiant Falun Dafa Members Converge on Tiananmen |first=Ian |last=Johnson |date=25 April 2000 |work=The Wall Street Journal |publisher=Pulitzer.org |page= A21}}</ref> and seven hundred Falun Gong followers were arrested during a demonstration in the Square on 1 January 2001.<ref name="Perry">{{cite book |first=Elizabeth J. |last=Selden |coauthor=Perry, Mark |title=Chinese Society: Change, Conflict and Resistance |publisher=Routledge |year=2003 |isbn=041530170X}}</ref><br />
<br />
According to the Chinese government, Falun Gong activists have launched attacks against [[Sinosat]]'s satellite-broadcast and jammed television signals, replacing regular state television broadcasts with their own material.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2002-07/08/content_473926.htm |title=Chinese satellite TV hijacked by Falun Gong cult |publisher=News.xinhuanet.com |date=8 July 2002 |accessdate=18 December 2009}}</ref> For example, in March 2002, Liu Chengjun, a Falun Gong practitioner, managed to intercept eight cable television networks in Changchun City and Songyuan City, Jilin Province, and televised a program titled “Self-Immolation or a Staged Act?”. Liu was arrested and reportedly subjected to 21 months of torture that led directly to his death.<ref name=mediacontrol>He Qinglian, Media Control in China, HRIC, 2008</ref><br />
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====Response outside China====<br />
{{Main|Falun Gong outside mainland China}}<br />
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Due to its ban in mainland China, Falun Gong practitioners have taken to their cause internationally, especially in Australia, Canada, the United States, and the United Kingdom. Since the ban in China, Falun Gong has alleged that its practitioners in China were subject to arbitrary arrest and torture, and violated their freedom of religion.<ref name=bejesky/> Falun Gong related cases comprise 66% of all reported torture cases in China, according to the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture,<ref name=nowak66>[http://www.cecc.gov/pages/annualRpt/annualRpt06/Religion.php Report of the Special Rapporteur on torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment: MISSION TO CHINA], Manfred Nowak, United Nations, Table 1: Victims of alleged torture, p. 13, 2006. Retrieved 12 October 2007.</ref> and at least half of the labor camp population.<ref name=USstate>[http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2007/90133.htm ''International Religious Freedom Report 2007''], [[US Department of State]], Sept 14, 2007, accessed 28th Sept 2007</ref> [[Amnesty International]] urged the government to "take seriously its commitment to prevent torture and take action immediately."<ref name="Amnesty2000">[http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/ASA17/048/2000/en/c5c52a11-dc75-11dd-b511-85b064f5a516/asa170482000en.html ''China: Falun Gong deaths in custody continue to rise as crackdown worsens'']. 19 December 2000. Amnesty International index ASA 17/048/2000 - News Service Nr. 239.</ref><ref>[http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/ASA17/014/2007/en/44b5c38b-d3a5-11dd-a329-2f46302a8cc6/asa170142007en.html China: Fear of torture or ill-treatment]. 20 March 2007. Amnesty International index ASA 17/014/2007.</ref> Amnesty has since reported that nearly 100 Falun Gong practitioners have died due to mistreatment in detention in 2008<ref>[http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/china/report-2008 China - Amnesty International Report 2008] Amnesty International, 2008. Retrieved March 15, 2010</ref> The United Nations asked the Chinese government to respond to the various allegations by Falun Gong and human rights groups.<ref name = "UN.org-2004"/><br />
<br />
Falun Gong practitioners in the United States routinely file cases in U.S. federal courts, and have filed the largest number of human rights lawsuits in the 21st century with crimes charged among the most severe according to international criminal law.<ref name=Ownby2008>David Ownby, Falun Gong and the Future of China, 2008</ref><ref>[http://www.flgjustice.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=15 Legal Actions in Chronological Order], Justice for Falun Gong. Retrieved 16 August 2007.</ref><br />
<br />
Practitioners engage in promotional activities by handing out flyers in busy intersections, in the subway or at the mall, leaving Falun Gong literature in stores, libraries, laundries etc. Although some of the literature deals with Falun Gong's situation in China, other publications also include the ''Nine Commentaries of the Communist Party'', a critical editorial of the Communist Party of China, which are distributed by practitioners in both DVD and book form. Falun Gong practitioners also join marches, parades, and celebrations of Chinese culture.<ref name="Ownbyfuture"/> Response to these appeals has been mixed.<ref>Crompton, Sarah (2008). [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/dance/3671451/Shen-Yun-Propaganda-as-entertainment.html 'Shen Yun: Propaganda as entertainment'']</ref><ref>Konigsberg, Eric (2008). [http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/06/nyregion/06splendor.html?_r=1&fta=y 'A Glimpse of Chinese Culture That Some Find Hard to Watch']</ref><br />
<br />
Since 2006, a central part of the Falun Gong campaign focused on alleged organ harvesting from living practitioners. The [[Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong]] commissioned Canadian parliamentarian [[David Kilgour]] and human rights lawyer [[David Matas]] to investigate the allegations.<ref name="km">Matas, David & Kilgour, David (2007). [http://organharvestinvestigation.net/ ''Revised Report into Allegations of Organ Harvesting of Falun Gong Practitioners in China'']</ref> The ''Christian Science Monitor'' considered the evidence [[circumstantial evidence|circumstantial]], but persuasive, and criticized the Chinese government for a lack of openness in investigating the claims.<ref name=monitorsview>The Monitor's View, [http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0803/p08s02-comv.html "Organ harvesting and China's openness"], ''The [[Christian Science Monitor]]'', 3 August 2006. Retrieved 6 August 2006.</ref> Likewise, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture Manfred Nowak said the report "shows a coherent picture that causes concern."<ref>[http://www.david-kilgour.com/2007/Dec_03_2007_01a.htm An Interview with U.N. Special Rapporteur on Organ Harvesting in China]</ref> In November 2008, the United Nations Committee Against Torture noted that an increase in organ transplant operations coincided with “the beginning of the persecution of [Falun Gong practitioners]” and demanded an explanation. The Chinese government has repeatedly denied these allegations, saying that the report was based on "rumors and false allegations".<ref>Canadian Press (7 July 2006) [http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=432dfdf7-9767-46b9-a210-65ff388d823f&k=17423 "Report claims China kills prisoners to harvest organs for transplant"], ''canada.com''. Retrieved 8 July 2006.</ref> The United States [[Congressional Research Service]] report by Dr. Thomas Lum stated that the Kilgour-Matas report relied largely on logical inference without bringing forth new or independently-obtained testimony, and that the conclusions also rely heavily upon questionable evidence.<ref name=lum>Thomas Lum, [http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/RL33437.pdf Congressional Research Report #RL33437], Congressional Research Service, August 11, 2006</ref> [[Human rights]] activist [[Harry Wu]] also voiced doubts about conclusions of the Kilgour-Matas report.<ref>[http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/RL33437.pdf CRS Report for Congress (11 August 2006)]</ref> David Ownby, a noted expert on Falun Gong, said that he saw "no evidence proving [organ harvesting] is aimed particularly at Falun Gong practitioners."<ref name=radiocan>{{cite web| url=http://www.radio-canada.ca/apropos/lib/v3.1/pdf/revfalungongenglish.pdf |title=Review by the Ombudsman, French Services of Complaint filed by the Falun Dafa Association of Canada |date=27 January 2009}}</ref><br />
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On 16 March 2010, the U.S. House of Representatives called for "an immediate end to the campaign to persecute, intimidate, imprison, and torture Falun Gong practitioners." House Resolution 605 argued that Chinese authorities have devoted extensive time and resources over the past decade distributing "false propaganda" worldwide, and expressed sympathy to persecuted Falun Gong practitioners and their families.<ref>[http://www.faluninfo.net/article/998/?cid=76 United States House Resolution 605], Faluninfo.net, March 17, 2010</ref><ref>Einhorn, Bruce. "[http://www.businessweek.com/blogs/eyeonasia/archives/2010/03/congress_challe.html Congress Challenges China on Falun Gong & Yuan], Business Week, March 17, 2010</ref><br />
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==Organisation and media==<br />
The precise nature of Falun Gong's organization has been a subject of some controversy. Chinese authorities portray Falun Gong as a tight, well-structured and well-funded organization, able to mobilize millions of practitioners.<ref name=tongforb>James Tong, Revenge of the Forbidden City, Oxford University Press (2009) p. 30</ref> Falun Gong denies having an organizational structure, and maintains that it is merely a spiritual group that practices a brand of ''qigong''.<ref name=Tong>{{cite journal| first=James| last=Tong| title=An Organizational Analysis of the Falun Gong: Structure, Communications, Financing| journal=[[The China Quarterly]]| volume=171| month=September| year=2002| pages=636–660| doi=10.1017/S0009443902000402}}</ref> It eschews the term 'membership' and doesn't keep figures. As a result, estimates vary over the number of people practicing Falun Gong. Before the ban, the government estimated 70 million, and later revised the figure to 2 million.<ref name="Practitioners_PRC_estimate">{{cite web | url=http://partners.nytimes.com/library/world/asia/042799china-protest.html| work=[[The New York Times]] | last=FAISON| first=SETH | date=27 April 1999 | accessdate=8 September 2009 | title=In Beijing: A Roar of Silent Protesters }}</ref><br />
<br />
===Inside China===<br />
After its withdrawal from the Scientific Qigong Association in 1994, the Falun Dafa Research Society (FDRS) applied to a number of government agencies, and was rejected by all of them.<ref>Cheng Helin, Great Expose´, p. 154.</ref> Unable to operate within a state-sponsored framework, Falun Gong pursued a more decentralized and loose organizational structure from 1997, according to Porter.<br />
<br />
The Chinese government, in post-crackdown reports, claimed that Falun Gong was a highly organized group with 39 "main stations", 1,900 "guidance stations", and 28,263 practice sites nation-wide, overseeing a total of 2.1 million practitioners.<ref name = Peoples>''[[People's Daily]]'', 23 July 1999, "''Li Hongzhi qirenqishi''"</ref> ''Time'' also described Falun Gong as "hierarchically structured, with neighborhood groups, like cells, acting autonomously but in contact with higher levels." Teachings were meant to be propagated through tapes and essays, which followers studied, and no one was permitted to interpret or question the master's words.<ref name=breakingpoint/> Anthropologist Noah Porter writes that Falun Gong's structure in China was not hierarchical, and that it was able to grow in a restrictive society like the PRC because of its relatively small size and flexible communication methods.<ref name=porterprof>Noah Porter, “Professional Practitioners and Contact Persons Explicating Special Types of Falun Gong Practitioners,” Nova Religio, November 2005, Vol. 9, No. 2, Pages 62–83</ref><br />
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====Finances====<br />
Opinions differ on whether or not Li made money from the practice in China, and if so, how much. [[Dai Qing]] (2000) states that by 1997, Li was receiving annual income in excess of [[Chinese yuan|¥]]10&nbsp;million,<ref name="Jude Howell">{{cite book |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=H80YZqSj7EEC&pg=PP1&dq=Governance+in+China+~+Jude+Howell#v=onepage&q=&f=false |title=Governance in China |editor= Jude Howell |first=Clemens Stubbe |last=Østergaard |pages=214–223 (Governance and the Political Challenge of Falun Gong) |year=2003 |isbn=0742519880}}</ref> even arguing that "Li's income is more legitimate than those of corrupt government officials."<ref>Dai Qing: Members of Falungong in an Autocratic Society. Asia Quarterly, Volume IV, No.3, Summer 2000</ref> Others dispute the theory that Li made any serious money from Falun Gong. Ian Johnson links the claim with the government’s campaign to portray Falun Gong as a highly organised group, or a cult, and rejects both, since “during the most dynamic period of the group's existence in China the books and videos were bootleg, so he hadn't received royalties.”<ref name="wildgrass"/><br />
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===Outside China===<br />
Falun Gong practitioners have set up international media organizations to promote their cause and criticize the Communist Party of China. These include ''[[The Epoch Times]]'' newspaper, [[NTDTV]], [[Sound of Hope]] radio station,<ref name=gospel>[http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/features/295092 The gospel truth: Falun Gong], Sunday Star Times, March 2, 2008</ref> and Epoch Press Inc.<ref name=sap200903>Mata Press Service, [http://www.southasianpost.com/portal2/c1ee8c421f38354c011f43489df90017_Punjabi_Publisher_fights_for_press_freedom_in_BC.do.html "Punjabi Publisher fights for press freedom in BC"] South Asian Post, March 2009</ref> According to Zhao, through<br />
Epoch Times it can be discerned how Falun Gong is building a "de facto media alliance" with China’s democracy movements in exile, as demonstrated by its frequent printing of articles by prominent overseas Chinese critics of the Chinese government.<ref name="zhao"/><br />
<br />
While Chinese media have attacked Falun Gong since 1999, Falun Gong's response through its various media organizations has earned the group some degree of positive PR in the West. Explaining the genesis of Epoch Times, Ownby said that practitioners have become "somewhat paranoid" of being ill-treated by journalists during the last decade, "so they decided to publish a newspaper by themselves to publicize their beliefs..."<ref>Radio Canada ombudsman report, p. 10</ref><br />
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Ethan Gutmann, a journalist reporting on China since the early 1990s, sees Falun Gong as an "unplanned child" of the dissident community, one that "marched to a distinctly Chinese drum" in its public representations, carrying some of the uncouthness of Communist party culture. This includes exaggeration, sensationalism, creating torture tableaux "straight out of a Cultural Revolution opera", a tendency to spout slogans rather than facts,<ref name=gutmann_harvest>Gutmann, Ethan. "[http://www.weeklystandard.com/print/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/824qbcjr.asp China's Gruesome Organ Harvest]", November 24, 2008, Vol. 14, No. 10</ref> intolerance of criticism, blanket denials when accused, and deflecting blame by charging the other of the same offense. While the CCP/Falun Gong debate is often seen as a zero-sum game, criticism of one is taken as vindication of the other.<ref name=gospel/><ref name=kavan>{{cite journal |url=http://molta.massey.ac.nz/massey/fms/Colleges/College%20of%20Business/Communication%20and%20Journalism/ANZCA%202008/Refereed%20Papers/Kavan_ANZCA08.pdf |title=Falun Gong in the media: What can we believe? |first=Heather |last=Kavan |author=Department of Communication, Journalism and Marketing |work=Massey University |page=13 |journal=E. Tilley (Ed.) Power and Place: Refereed Proceedings of the Australian & New Zealand Communication Association Conference, Wellington. |date=July 2008}}</ref> Maria H. Chang of the [[University of Nevada, Reno|University of Nevada]] says Falun Gong's media and human rights initiatives seem like "front organisations" meant to influence public opinion via a "concerted information-PR-propaganda campaign"—which, she says, is understandable given the experiences of many adherents in the political environment of China, where such tactics are the norm.<ref name=gospel/><br />
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In May 2006, the outspoken dissident and former Beijing University journalism professor Jiao Guobiao published an essay lauding what he considers unbalanced and highly partisan journalistic tactics of Falun Gong-related media like Radio Free Asia. Arguing that there is no attempt at balance on the mainland, Jiao proposed that even if Falun Gong outlets published only negative information highly critical of the CCP, the weight of their attacks could never begin to counterbalance the positive propaganda the party publishes about itself. "What the mainland Chinese public lacks is negative information about mainland China... Balance does not mean that all media entities have to achieve a God-like balance, but that the media can balance the principles of freedom, equality and legality together... Balance is the result of the collective imbalances of all," he wrote.<ref name="thornton" /><br />
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Patricia Thornton sees Falun Gong as an oppressed group whose bid to gain transnational support for its cause has sometimes backfired, leading to greater scrutiny of the affairs of participants and their public relations tactics. Generally, while new digital media have allowed repressed groups more access to international audiences, at the same time it has made their organization and beliefs more vulnerable to public exposure.<ref name="thornton">Thornton, Patricia M. ''Manufacturing Dissent in Transnational China'' pp. 179-204 in "Popular Protest in China," Kevin J. O'Brien (ed.), Harvard University Press 2008</ref><br />
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Informal networks called "Falun Dafa Associations" exist around the world, of which the Canadian and American chapters are the most prominent. Practice points are also staffed at a number of universities. Falun Gong has also established university chapters in the United States.<ref>Falun Gong clubs at universities:<br />
* [http://www.umich.edu/~falun/index.html Falun Dafa in Michigan, retrieved 25 Sept 2009]<br />
* [http://www.columbia.edu/cu/falundafa/ Falun Dafa at Columbia, retrieved 25 Sept 2009]<br />
* [http://www.studentgroups.ucla.edu/falun/ Falun Dafa at UCLA, retrieved 25 Sept 2009]<br />
* [http://www.its.caltech.edu/~falun/ Falun Dafa at Caltech, retrieved 25 Sept 2009]</ref><br />
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Falun Gong practitioners also have considerable presence on the Internet,<ref name=hanson1999/> with websites such as ''clearwisdom.net'', ''faluninfo.net'', ''mingui'', ''pureinsight'' that publish Li's teachings and testimonials about the persecution in China.<ref name=morais/> Falun Gong practitioners have also set up groups like [[CIPFG]], Falun Dafa Information Center, and "World Organisation to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong," which publish reports and attempt to deliver their message to Western media, governments, and NGOs.<ref name="Amnesty1"/><ref name=HRW1>[http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/china/ China's Campaign Against Falungong], Human Rights Watch</ref><br />
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==Public debate==<br />
Zhao (2003) sees Falun Gong as a profound challenge to China's dominant "meaning system" for Falun Gong's insistence on the public nature of the practice, the imperative to gain positive representation and to make known their dissent.<ref name=zhao/> Such is made more difficult with the reception Falun Gong received by American journalists, who had a number of problems with Falun Gong. These include that its emergence in 1999 took them by surprise, and "journalists don't like feeling out of the loop"; foreign reporters depend on the CCP's cooperation for access and accreditation, and while Falun Gong is the party's enemy number one, stories about the persecution could lead to loss of journalists' ability to work; and because Falun Gong's insistence on traditional values like marriage and morality make it look like an enemy of the New China of progress and commercialisation.<ref name=gutmann_carrytorch>Gutmann, Ethan. "[http://www.weeklystandard.com/print/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/986himak.asp Carrying a Torch for China]", Weekly Standard, April 21, 2008, Vol. 13, No. 30</ref><br />
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===Categorization===<br />
There is some degree of debate about how Falun Gong should be categorized, whether as a ''qigong'' practice, a spiritual discipline, or a New Religious Movement. The view that Falun Gong is a cult, widely used as part of Chinese state propaganda against the practice and adopted by some members of the anti-cult movement, is mostly rejected by mainstream scholarship.<ref>Substantiation may be found in: Ownby 2008, p. vii and elsewhere; Madsen 2000; Chan 2004; Richardson & Edelman 2004; Hill et al 2001, pp. 34-35, etc.</ref> Adam Frank identifies five generalizable frames of discourse surrounding Falun Gong: the Western media, the Chinese media, an emerging scholarly tradition, the discourse of human rights groups, and a sympathetic practice-based discourse.<ref name=frank2004>Frank, Adam. (2004) Falun Gong and the threat of history. in ''Gods, guns, and globalization: religious radicalism and international political economy'' edited by Mary Ann Tétreault, Robert Allen Denemark, Lynne Rienner Publishers, 2004, ISBN 1588262537, pp. 233-263</ref> Western journalists initially adopted what Frank regards as dubious historical referents, like the [[Taiping Rebellion]] and the [[Boxer Uprising]] to frame Falun Gong; the Chinese print media were "blanketed" with anti-Falun Gong propaganda; scholarly debate sought a place for the practice in a wider Chinese historical context without resorting to sensationalism; human rights groups took up a discourse of nonpractitioner opposition to Chinese government policy, focusing on legal mechanisms and specific cases; Falun Gong practitioners themselves attempted to emphasise the psycho-physiological foundation of their discipline, which is their basis for following Li Hongzhi's teachings and resisting state control.<ref>Frank (2004), 240-254</ref><br />
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The Chinese Buddhist Association, concerned with Buddhist apostates taking up Falun Gong practice, were the first to term Falun Gong ''xiejiao'' in 1996. A direct translation of that term is "heretical teaching,"<ref name="Amnesty1"/> but during the anti-Falun Gong propaganda campaign was rendered as "evil cult" in English. Western media initially adopted this language after the Chinese government's media reports,<ref name=frank2004/> but soon began using less loaded terms.<ref name=kipnis2001>Kipnis, Andrew B. 2001, The Flourishing of Religion in Post-Mao China and the Anthropological Category of Religion, THE AUSTRALIAN JOURNAL OF ANTHROPOLOGY, 12:1, 32-46 Anthropology, Australian National University</ref><br />
<br />
Richard Madsen writes that like most ''qigong'' practices, Falun Gong may appear religious because it does not make a clear distinction between physical and spiritual healing.<ref name="Madsen 2000, p. 244">Madsen (2000), p. 244</ref> Falun Dafa can be seen as part of a long tradition of Chinese folk Buddhism, he writes, which often had a millenarian element that "this world was hopelessly corrupt and would come to an end."<ref name="Madsen 2000, p. 244"/><br />
<br />
Cheris Shun-ching Chan consider cults to be new religious movements that focus on the individual experience of the encounter with the sacred rather than collective worship, and writes that Falun Gong is neither a cult nor a sect, but a [[new religious movement]] with cult-like characteristics.<ref name=chan2004>Chan, Cheris Shun-ching (2004). The Falun Gong in China: A Sociological Perspective. The China Quarterly, 179 , pp 665-683</ref> Some scholars avoid the term "cult" altogether because "of the confusion between the historic meaning of the term and current pejorative use"<ref name=bainbridge97>Bainbridge, William Sims 1997 The sociology of religious movements, Routledge, 1997, page 24, ISBN 0415912024</ref><ref name=rich93>{{cite journal |last=Richardson |first=James T. |year=1993 |title=Definitions of Cult: From Sociological-Technical to Popular-Negative |journal=Review of Religious Research |volume=34| issue = 4 |pages=348–356}}</ref> These scholars prefer terms like "spiritual movement","new religious syncretism" or "new religious movement" to avoid the negative connotations of "cult" or to avoid mis-categorizing those which do not fit mainstream definitions.<ref name=frank2004/><ref>Kai-Ti Chou, Contemporary Religous Movements in Taiwan. Edwin Mellen Press, 2008. pp. 184-185. ISBN 978-0-7734-5241-1</ref><br />
<br />
Harvey Hill et al conclude in a study of media reporting on new religious groups that the most influential reporting on religion fails the standards of an "evenhanded, non-judgmental and fair approach," at least in the language used to describe such groups.<ref name=harvey2001>Hill, Harvey, John Hickman, Joel McLendon. "Cults and Sects and Doomsday Groups, Oh My: Media Treatment of Religion on the Eve of the Millennium," Review of Religious Research, Vol. 43, No. 1 (Sep., 2001), pp. 24-38</ref> Since Falun Gong seems highly unlikely to commit acts of violence, and while the agent of violence has been the Chinese government, they write that "the characterization particularly of Falun Gong as "cult" would seem inaccurate and unjust." They attribute the reason for the adoption of such terms to uncritical acceptance of the views of the Chinese government by the media, an acceptance that is "rife with irony." Such negative portrayal of new religious movements is unfair and dangerous, they write, adding that "it would be preferable to use terms less likely to reinforce mutual mistrust and more conducive to real understanding."<ref>Hill et al 2001, pp. 34-35</ref><br />
<br />
=== Controversies ===<br />
Some aspects of Falun Gong's teachings are considered implausible and peculiar by observers, and Falun Gong's conservative and moralistic views on subjects such as homosexuality have attracted controversy. In 2001, for example, a nomination of Li Hongzhi for the [[Nobel Peace Prize]] by [[San Francisco]] legislators was withdrawn after they were notified of the group's views.<ref name=downtown>{{cite news |url=http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_60/falungong.html |title=Falun Gong tries to join Chinatown Independence parade |first=David H. |last=Ellis |publisher=Downtown Eexpress}}</ref><ref name=tolerance>{{cite web |url=http://www.religioustolerance.org/falungong1.htm |title=INTRODUCTION TO FALUN GONG & FALUN DAFA<br />
Its terminology, symbol, texts, beliefs, web sites, & books |author=Ontaria Consultants on Religious Tolerance |publisher=religioustolerance.org |accessdate=6 January 2010}}</ref><ref name="Mercury News">Lubman, Sarah [http://www.rickross.com/reference/fa_lun_gong/falun249.html "A Chinese Battle on U.S. Soil" in San Jose Mercury News (December 23, 2001)] retrieved June 14, 2006</ref> The Falun Dafa Information Center states that Falun Gong welcomes gays, lesbians, and bisexuals to the practice, that they are not accorded special treatment, and that while Falun Gong teaches that homosexuality "generates more karma", this does not equate to a position statement, social stance, or regulation.<ref>Falun Dafa Information Center, [http://faluninfo.net/article/654/?cid=23 "Misconceptions: "Intolerant"?"], 16 Jun 2008</ref><br />
<br />
David Ownby writes that interpreting Li Hongzhi's teachings presents numerous challenges because many of the things he says appear "somewhat puzzling." Startling assertions found in Li's writings, according to Ownby, include that there is a "small fluorescent screen like a television" positioned in the forehead that permits the initiated to possess the power of total recall; that animals can possess human beings in order to exploit humans' greater spiritual and supernormal capacities; and that the spiritual [[salvation]] of children of [[interracial marriage]]s is problematic because, in the afterlife, the paradises are divided by race.<ref>Ownby 2008, p. 89</ref><br />
<br />
Opinions among scholars differ as to whether Falun Gong contains an apocalyptic message, and if so what the consequences of that are. Li maintains that mankind has been destroyed 81 times, and, according to some interpretations, that another round of destruction may be imminent. At least one follower suggested there would be "some sudden change that will be good for good people, but bad for bad people."<ref name=nyt20000430>{{cite news |url=http://www.nytimes.com/2000/04/30/weekinreview/the-world-rooting-out-falun-gong-china-makes-war-on-mysticism.html?pagewanted=all |title=Rooting Out Falun Gong; China Makes War on Mysticism |first=Craig S. |last=Smith<br />
|work=New York Times |date=30 April 2000}}</ref> In Heather Kavan's opinion, Falun Gong members don't leave the group because they believe that it's the only way to save themselves.<ref name=kavan /> Richard Gunde, Assistant Director of the Center for Chinese Studies at UCLA, argues that Falun Gong is unlike western cults that fixate on death and Armageddon, but merely promises its followers a long and healthy life. "Falun Gong has a simple, innocuous ethical message," Gunde says, "and its leader, Li Hongzhi, despite his unusual, if not bizarre, statements, is in many ways simple and low key."<ref>Gunde, Richard. Culture and customs of China. Greenwood Publishing Group, 2002, p. 215</ref> At the local level Li's fantastic claims seem to be of little theological importance, since Falun Gong practice does not require unquestioning acceptance of all of Li's teachings, and there is no overt emphasis on dogmatically enforcing orthodoxy, according to Craig Burgdoff.<ref name=burgdoff/><br />
<br />
Adam Frank writes that in reporting on the Falun Gong, the Western tradition of casting the Chinese as "exotic" took dominance, and that "the facts were generally correct, but the normalcy that millions of Chinese practitioners associated with the practice had all but disappeared."<ref>Frank 2004, p. 241</ref> Sinologist Benjamin Penny sees Falun Gong's apparent last days message as largely innocuous, with Buddhist roots,<ref name="radio" /> and suggests "the fact that [Falun Gong beliefs] are often difficult for Westerners to understand should not be any reason to relegate them to the anomalous or quirky or kooky."<ref name=Fellow /><br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{Reflist|2}}<br />
<br />
==Further reading==<br />
*David Ownby, ''[http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Bwqkwx4SWS0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=ownby+falun&client=firefox-a&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Falun Gong and the Future of China]'' (Oxford University Press, 2008) ISBN 978-0-19-532905-6<br />
*Kai-Ti Chou (2008), ''Contemporary Religious Movements in Taiwan: Rhetorics of Persuasion'' (Edwin Mellen Press) pp.&nbsp;133–188. ISBN 0-7734-5241-9''<br />
*Maria Hsia Chang, ''Falun Gong: The End of Days'' (New Haven, Connecticut: [[Yale University Press]], 2004) ISBN 0-300-10227-5<br />
*Li Hongzhi, ''[http://www.falundafa.org/eng/books.htm#falungong Falun Gong (Law Wheel ''qigong'')]'' (1993)<br />
*Li Hongzhi, ''[http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/zflus.html Zhuan Falun]'' (English translation 2000)<br />
*[[Danny Schechter]], ''[http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=v20J18hL1MAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Danny+Schechter,+Falun+Gong%27s+Challenge+to+China&lr=&client=firefox-a&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Falun Gong's Challenge to China]'' ([[Akashic Books]], 2000) hardback ISBN 1-888451-13-0, paperback ISBN 1-888451-27-0<br />
* {{cite book |url=http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RXeuibmD2dsC&lpg=PR7&dq=Qigong%20fever%3A%20body%2C%20science%2C%20and%20utopia%20in%20China%E2%80%8E%20-%20Page%20241&lr=&client=firefox-a&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q=&f=false|title=Qigong fever: body, science, and utopia in China |pages= |work=<br />
|first= David A. |last=Palmer |year=2007 |isbn=0231140665 |publisher=Columbia University Press |location=New York }}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
{{Commons category|Falun Gong}}<br />
{{Portal|Falun Gong}}<br />
===Sites run by Falun Gong practitioners===<br />
* [http://www.FalunDafa.org/ FalunDafa.org], introducing Falun Gong and the exercises.<br />
* [http://www.faluninfo.net/ FalunInfo.net], with detailed reports and press releases.<br />
* [http://www.flghrwg.net/ Falun Gong Human Rights Working Group], with UN reports.<br />
* [http://clearwisdom.net/ Clearwisdom.net], intended mainly for practitioners, but has daily reports and news.<br />
<br />
===Sites run by the Chinese government===<br />
*[http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/ztbd/jpflg-new/index.htm Condemn Falun Gong Cult], a series of anti-Falun Gong articles of the state-run Xinhua news agency<br />
* [http://www.facts.org.cn China Association For Cultic Studies], anti-FLG presentation and recent news articles<br />
<br />
===Other critical sites===<br />
* [http://www.rickross.com/groups/falun.html The Rick A. Ross Institute's archives], vast collection of articles criticizing Falun Gong (mainly Communist Party sources)<br />
* [http://atimes.com/china/CA27Ad01.html Falungong Part 1: From Sport to Suicide], Francesco Sisci, Asia Times, 27 January 2001<br />
<br />
===Other sites on the issue===<br />
* [http://www.pulitzer.org/works/2001-International-Reporting-Group1 Articles by Ian Johnson (Pulitzer Prize winner)], ''[[Wall Street Journal]]'' (2001)<br />
*[http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s283930.htm Falun Gong: Cult or Culture?], Produced by Chris Bullock, Radio National, 22 April 2001<br />
*[http://www.cesnur.org/cgi-bin/swish.cgi?query=falun+gong press archives], Center for Studies on New Religions<br />
*[http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,165166,00.html Spiritual Society or Evil Cult?]<br />
*[http://www.time.com/time/asia/features/falun_gong/ Falun Gong portal], ''[[Time (magazine)|Time]]''<br />
*[http://www.apologeticsindex.org/f02.html Apologetics Index : Falun Gong, Falun Dafa, Falungong]<br />
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<sub>Posted by {{{4|[[User_talk:Srikeit|Srikeit]] 06:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)}}} for the Arbitration committee. See [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Falun Gong]].</sub><br />
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== In relation to qigong and its roots in Chinese culture ==<br />
<br />
In 1992, Li Hongzhi introduced Falun Gong and along with teachings that touched upon a wide range of topics, from detailed exposition on qigong related phenomenon and cultivation practice to science and morality. In the next few years, Falun Gong quickly grew in popularity across China to become the most popular qigong practice in Chinese History.<ref name=Ownby /> Falun Gong was welcomed into the state-controlled Scientific Qigong Research Association, which sponsored and helped to organize many of his activities between 1992 and 1994, including 54 large-scale lectures. In 1992 and 1993 he won government awards at the Beijing Oriental Health Expos, including the ''"Qigong Master most acclaimed by the Masses"'' and ''"The Award for Advancing Boundary Science."''<ref name=Fellow> The Past, Present and Future of Falun Gong, A lecture by Harold White Fellow, Benjamin Penny, at the National Library of Australia, Canberra, 2001, [http://www.nla.gov.au/grants/haroldwhite/papers/bpenny.html], accessed 31/12/07</ref> <br />
<br />
According to academics, Falun Gong originally surfaced in the institutional field of alternative Chinese science, not religion. The debate between what can be called "[[naturalism (philosophy)|naturalist]]" and "[[supernaturalism|supernaturalist]]" schools of ''qigong'' theory has produced a considerable amount of literature. Xu Jian stated in The [[Journal of Asian Studies]] 58 (4 November 1999): "Situated both in scientific researches on ''qigong'' and in the prevailing nationalistic revival of traditional beliefs and values, this discursive struggle has articulated itself as an intellectual debate and enlisted on both sides a host of well-known writers and scientists — so much so that a veritable corpus of literature on ''qigong'' resulted. In it, two conflicting discourses became identifiable. Taking “discourse” in its contemporary sense as referring to forms of representation that generate specific cultural and historical fields of meaning, we can describe one such discourse as [[rational]] and [[scientific]] and the other as [[psychosomatic]] and [[metaphysics|metaphysical]]. Each strives to establish its own order of power and knowledge, its own “truth” about the “reality” of ''qigong'', although they differ drastically in their explanation of many of its phenomena. The controversy centers on the question of whether and how ''qigong'' can induce “supranormal abilities” (''teyi gongneng''). The psychosomatic discourse emphasizes the inexplicable power of ''qigong'' and relishes its super-normal mechanisms or which causative factors which go beyond wht canbe explained by presentday scietific models, whereas the rational discourse strives to demystify many of its phenomena and to situate it strictly in the knowledge present day modern science." The Chinese government has generally tried to encourage ''qigong'' as a science and discourage religious or supernatural elements. However, the category of science in China tends to include things that are generally not considered scientific in the West, including ''qigong'' and [[traditional Chinese medicine]].<br />
<br />
David Aikman has written in [[American Spectator]] (March 2000): "Americans may believe that ''qigong'' belongs in a general category of socially neutral, New Age-style concepts that are merely subjective, not necessarily harmful, and incapable of scientific proof. But China's scientific community doesn't share this view. Experiments under controlled conditions established by the [[Chinese Academy of Sciences]] in the late 1970s and early 1980s concluded that qi, when emitted by a ''qigong'' expert, actually constitutes measurable infrared electromagnetic waves and causes chemical changes in static water through mental concentration. Qi, according to much of China's scientific establishment, for all intents existed."<ref>American Spectator, March 2000, Vol. 33, Issue 2</ref><br />
<br />
Li Hongzhi states in [http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/europe1998a.htm Falun Buddha Fa Lectures in Europe]:<br />
<blockquote><br />
''"Since the time Dafa was made public, I have unveiled some inexplicable phenomena in ''qigong'' as well as things that hadn’t been explained in the ''qigong'' community. But this isn’t the reason why so many people are studying Dafa. It’s because our Fa can truly enable people to Consummate, truly save people, and allow you to truly ascend to high levels in the process of cultivation. Whether it’s your realm of mind or the physical quality of your body, the Fa truly enables you to reach the standards of different levels. It absolutely can assume this role."''<br />
</blockquote><br />
<br />
Andrew P. Kipnis is quoted as stating: "...to the Western layperson, ''qigong'' of all sorts may seem to be religious because it deals with spiritual matters. Because Li Hongzhi makes use of many concepts from Buddhism and Taoism in his writings, this may make Falun Gong seem even more like a religion to the outsider; bur Falun Gong grew initially into a space termed scientific [in China], but was mostly insulated from the spaces formally acknowledged as institutionalized science in Western countries"<ref>Porter 2003, pp. 38-39. Available online: [http://www.lib.usf.edu/ETD-db/theses/available/etd-06122003-113105/unrestricted/FalunGongInTheUS-NoahPorter-Thesis.pdf]</ref><br />
<br />
The term 'qigong' was coined in the early 1950s as an alternative label to past spiritual disciplines rooted Buddhism or Taoism, that promoted the belief in the supernatural, immortality and pursuit of spiritual transcendence. The new term was constructed to avoid danger of association with ancient spiritual practices which were labeled "superstitious" and persecuted during the Maoist era.<ref name=Ownby> [http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~tnchina/commentary/ownby1000.html "Falungong as a Cultural Revitalization Movement: An Historian Looks at Contemporary China."] Professor David Ownby, Department of History, University of Montreal, , accessed 31/12/07</ref> In Communist China, where spirituality and religion are looked-down upon, the concept was "tolerated" because it carried with it no overt religious or spiritual elements; and millions flocked to it during China's spiritual vacuum of the 1980s and 1990s. Scholars argue that the immense popularity of qigong in China could, in part, lie in the fact that the public saw in it a way to improve and maintain health. According to Ownby, this rapidly became a social phenomenon of considerable importance.<ref name=Ownby /><br />
<br />
== Membership and finances ==<br />
<br />
<!--The following quote from Porter seems to be "apropos of nothing", i.e. not really related to the rest of the section. It might be useful but perhaps it belongs somewhere else, not here.<br />
<br />
Porter writes that "Most who have written about Falun Gong have simply relied upon the writings of Li Hongzhi, the websites, and newspaper articles for their information about Falun Gong, and then applied the theoretical perspective of their discipline and their personal perspective in analyzing it."<ref name="Porter"> Noah Porter, (Masters Thesis for the University of South Florida) July 18, 2003, [http://www.lib.usf.edu/ETD-db/theses/available/etd-06122003-113105/unrestricted/FalunGongInTheUS-NoahPorter-Thesis.pdf "Falun Gong in the United States: An Ethnographic Study"], retrieved June 14, 2006 </ref>Porter writes that he has hoped to "bridge" this communications gap with an anthropological study of Falun Gong, "to promote a broader understanding." He states in his thesis that "…practitioners do not isolate themselves from non-practitioners"<ref name="Porter"/> and are always exposed to different "identity streams," which he defines as "different forms of media, people, and ideas."--><br />
<br />
<!--This bit about Palmer's field notes and preliminary research report interrupts the flow. It's not directly relevant although it could be added as a note.<br />
[[Sociology|Sociologist]] Susan Palmer's [[field notes]] and a preliminary research report on Falun Dafa practitioners were released in the [[Nova Religio]] journal (nr. 4, 1 October 2000).--><br />
<br />
[[Sociology|Sociologist]] Susan Palmer writes that, "...Falun Gong does not behave like other new religions. For one thing, its organization - if one can even call it that - is quite nebulous. There are no church buildings, rented spaces, no priests or administrators. At first I assumed this was defensive [...] now, I'm beginning to think that what you see is exactly what you get - Master Li's teachings on the Net on the one hand and a global network of practitioners on the other. Traveling through North America, all I dug up was a handful of volunteer contact persons. The local membership (they vehemently reject that word) is whoever happens to show up at the park on a particular Saturday morning to do qigong."<br />
<br />
===Finances===<br />
<br />
In his thesis, Noah Porter takes up the issue of Falun Gong and finance in Mainland China. He quotes and responds to some of the allegations of the Chinese Communist Party that Li benefited financially from teaching the practice. Porter writes that when teaching seminars, there was an admission of 40 yuan per new practitioner and 20 yuan for repeat practitioners--with the repeat practitioners making up for 50-75% of the admissions. He goes on to say with respect to the CCP's claims: "...but the Chinese government figures for the profits of the seminars counted all attendees as paying the 40-yuan fee charged to newcomers. Also, the Chinese Qigong Research Society received 40% of admission receipts from July 1993 to September 1994. Falun Gong's first four training seminars took in a total of 20,000 yuan, which is only 10% of the 200,000 figure cited by the Chinese government. Finally, from that 20,000 yuan, they had several operating expenses..."<ref>Porter 2003, p 197</ref><br />
<br />
Ian Johnson points out that during the greatest period of Falun Gong book sales in China, Li Hongzhi never received any royalties because all publications were bootleg.<ref name=wildgrass>Johnson, Ian. ''Wild Grass: three stories of change in modern China''. Pantheon books. 2004. pp 23-229</ref><br />
<br />
James Tong writes about the competing claims by Falun Gong and the Chinese government in 'The China Quarterly' journal, 2003. He writes that the government has attempted to portray Falun Gong as being financially savvy with a centralized administration system and a variety of mechanisms for deriving profit from the practice. He also looks over Falun Gong's claims of having no hierarchy, administration, membership or financial accounts, and that seminar admission was charged at a minimal rate.<ref> James Tong, "An Organizational Analysis of the Falun Gong: Structure, Communications, Financing", The China Quarterly, 2002, 636-660: p 636</ref> Tong writes that it was in the government's interest, in the post-crackdown context, to portray Falun Gong as being highly organised: "The more organized the Falun Gong could be shown to be, then the more justified the regime's repression in the name of social order was."<ref>Tong 2002, p 638 </ref> He writes that the government's charges that Falun Gong made excessive profits, charged exorbitant fees, and that Li Hongzhi led a lavish lifestyle "...lack both internal and external substantiating evidence" and points out that that despite the arrests and scrutiny, the authorities "had disclosed no financial accounts that established the official charge and credibly countered Falun Gong rebuttals."<ref>Tong 2002, p 657</ref><br />
<br />
Li Hongzhi stipulates in his books ''Falun Gong'' and ''Zhuan Falun'' that practitioners should only voluntarily help others learn the exercises and that this could never be done for fame and money, and also stipulates that practitioners must not accept any fee, donation or gift in return for their voluntarily teaching the practice. According to Falun Gong, Li's insistence that the practice be offered free of charge caused a rift with the China Qigong Research Society, the state administrative body under which Falun Dafa was initially introduced. Li subsequently withdrew from the organization.<br />
<br />
Falun Gong website often state on their pages that "All Falun Gong Activities Are Free of Charge and Run by Volunteers"<ref>Learning the Practice, [http://www.falundafa.org/], accessed 21 July 2007</ref><br />
<br />
In an interview in Sydney on May 2, 1999, mentioning his financial status, Li said : "In mainland China I published so many books, but added together, they haven't exceeded twenty thousand Renminbi (equivalent to US $ 2,469). This is what the publishing company gave me. When publishing books in other countries of the world, you know there is a rule, which pays 5 or 6% royalties to the author, so each time I can only get a little bit, a few hundred, or a few thousand dollars." <ref>Li Hongzhi, Lecture in Sydney, 1999, [http://www.falundafa.ca/library/english/sydney/xini_e.html], accessed 21 July 2007</ref><br />
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== Added images, and minor sundry ==<br />
<br />
I made a few changes, including adding some images and recasting the part about controversies on the basis of the discussion at the teachings of Falungong page. If there's anything remiss, please note. There are more controversies than what is listed there - something that will need to be improved on later. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 15:23, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
In fact, the issue of the Falungong being blocked from entering parades, pointed out by another contributor on the teachings discussion page, is one missing controversy. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 15:46, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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[ec] Great work. There are surely more controversies, but it's often a matter of which are notable and which aren't. It's been suggested that consulting scholarly works is a good idea for establishing notability--something I'd agree with. --<font style="bold">[[User:Asdfg12345|'''Asdfg''']]</font><font color="black" style="bold">[[User_talk:Asdfg12345|'''12345''']]</font> 15:48, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I removed the image, I hope that is okay. The references were broken, ostensibly taken from the archives of another article. These references need to be checked, because some users have raised the issue that the majority of these images [http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=gao+rongrong&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= link directly] to Falun Gong primary sources that have little credibility. I am not saying that this particular image of Gao Rongrong belongs to a Falun Gong primary source, but a potentially controversial image must be checked thoroughly. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 21:18, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
::Thanks for the enthusiasm for good sourcing, I hadn't noticed that the citations were done improperly. I have properly cited it to the Amnesty 2006 Annual report, which has this to say: <br />
<br />
::<blockquote>"Gao Rongrong, a Falun Gong practitioner, died in custody in June after being detained in Longshan Reeducation through Labour facility in Shenyang, Liaoning province. Officials had reportedly beaten her in 2004, including by using electro-shock batons on her face and neck, which caused severe blistering and eyesight problems, after she was discovered reading Falun Gong materials in the facility."</blockquote><br />
<br />
::The image I will use comes from [http://www.faluninfo.net/article/761/ Faluninfo.net], which is indeed a primary source. It's natural that, of course, images of Falungong practitioners who have been tortured will come from Falungong sources. Her practitioner colleagues would presumably be the only ones with the means to sneak into a hospital and photograph her condition. I do not see this as a problem - you may have to elaborate on that. <p>The other source comes from Youtube videos which, while not much of a reputable source at all, serves in this case only as one piece of the corroborative evidence. The persecution itself, and treatment of Falungong is well documented, so we do not rely on Youtube or Faluninfo for that - merely instances of what has already been widely documented. Please clearly state any problems, and consider waiting until other editors have given their opinion before removing the image again. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 00:06, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I want you to know that I hate to edit war. Thus unless I was reasonably sure that the image should not be on the article be it for sourcing or any other policy reasons, I would not have removed it. You may, if you wish, bring this issue to any noticeboard of your choice to gather some opinions. These noticeboards never provided much useful feedback, but it's worth a try. Or if you are confident of your own reasons of putting the image there, just re-insert it. I will not revert it. All Falun Gong sources amount to [[WP:SPS|Self-published sources]], whose use should be limited to describing the position of Falun Gong, not to describe any facts. The same applies for Chinese government documents - they represent the Chinese gov't, not the hard facts. We know that there is a propaganda war going on between the two sides, thus it is reasonable to dig deeply on any issue (such as organ harvesting) before we can reasonably conclude that their inclusion is warranted. Using Falun Gong sources to describe the ill-treatment of its practitioners is basically equivalent to using Chinese government sources to describe why Falun Gong is a cult. Both groups have an inherent agenda. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 00:19, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::In this case the content of the image is verified by at least Amnesty International, so I think it should be fine. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 00:38, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::I read the Amnesty Report. It does make mention of Gao Rongrong, but no pictures. I wanted to ask a few questions. Which third-party source actually verifies that the picture of Gao Rongrong on Faluninfo.net is actually a picture of the same Gao that appeared on the Amnesty Report? All Amnesty says conclusively is that Gao died in custody. When discussing torture, Amnesty only says that she was "reportedly beaten". Let's assume this is true. Where are these 'reports'? Do they come from Falun Gong websites, or do they come from recognized news organizations? And the YouTube video, well, that's just not considered a reliable source. You can try to go to the Reliable Sources Noticeboard if you don't believe me. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 00:53, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::Oh come on Colipon. You're not serious are you? The Amnesty thing says she was beaten with electro-shock batons, and AI New Zealand used to have a Q&A with that horrifying picture featured; it's no longer available from what I can tell. Are you saying you don't think that picture is Gao Rongrong? Who else do you think is going to get this information out, as Zujine says, than Falun Gong practitioners? Where does Amnesty get its information? Of course, these are all first and second hand accounts, the vast majority from Falun Gong practitioners themselves. That's not the point though, the point is whether third parties like Amnesty and media organisations believe them and report on them. And they have obviously done both. Further, allow me to defend the work of Falun Gong groups. Ownby says in his preface, for example: ''"These violations have been exposed and condemned by such well-known human rights organizations as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, as well as by numerous Falun Gong organizations whose quite professional publications have been generally accepted as legitimate and trustworthy by these human rights organizations."'' and in the first page of the introduction that ''"The ensuing campaign of suppression has been reminiscent of the extremes of the Cultural Revolution (1966-1976). According to information compiled by Falun Gong—which is generally accepted as accurate by international human rights organizations— since 1999, more than 3,000 practitioners have died in police custody."'' So I don't think the reliability of Falun Gong sources is an issue here. We have an expert saying they are reliable, and considered reliable by other human rights groups. The photo is obviously genuine, it has been reported by third parties, and unfortunately I think you are trying to wikilawyer its exclusion because you don't like it. For you it's just "positive propaganda" for Falun Gong. What can one say to that? I applaud Zujine's forthright approach here. I hope he is not discouraged by the response. --<font style="bold">[[User:Asdfg12345|'''Asdfg''']]</font><font color="black" style="bold">[[User_talk:Asdfg12345|'''12345''']]</font> 01:49, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::Well, I'm not reverting anything. I am certain that someone else will come onto this talk page and bring about other reasons for us to take the picture off. It's not just a WP:RS issue. It's also [[WP:SOAP|sensationalistic]], [[WP:UNDUE|given undue weight]], and not [[WP:A|given proper attribution]]. Since I am thoroughly tired of editing everything Falun Gong, I don't have much energy left to tell the community why the picture does not belong. I am confident the community will reach that decision sooner or later on its own. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 02:30, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::Can you please explain why you think it's sensationalistic? Again, I think that's just another argument for trying to exclude the image, but which, when you think about it, doesn't really make sense. Which picture of a Falun Gong torture victim would not be "sensationalistic"? Or should the pages be sanitised of all these unpleasant images because you think they are "senationalistic"? Take a look at the [[Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse]] for example--we had better go and delete them, then, under this logic. Secondly, it's ''one'' image used to illustrate the torture meted out to Falun Gong practitioners. If there was a gallery on the page I would also think it inappropriate, but torture is a key part of the persecution, and having an image illustrating that seems quite legitimate. The other problem is that the source may not be reliable--it's attribution is clear, but there may be a complaint that it doesn't belong because it comes from a Falun Gong source. That's simple to respond to: basically any picture of a Falun Gong torture victim in China was taken by a Falun Gong practitioner or supporter, at great personal risk. I remember emailing Minghui to get them to release some of those images, and they refused, citing this. Those images belong to Falun Gong practitioners, they're the only people who could obtain them, and they are the source of these images. So... of course the image comes from a Falun Gong source. The real question is whether the case in question has been verified by third parties, and it has. The rest is just wikilawyering, and a continuation of the strategy of playing down the persecution. I wrote my thoughts about that elsewhere. Suffice to say, I'm not a fan. --<font style="bold">[[User:Asdfg12345|'''Asdfg''']]</font><font color="black" style="bold">[[User_talk:Asdfg12345|'''12345''']]</font> 03:20, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::Personally I think it's normal to have a photo of the abuse documented in the article. I think it's also normal that such images would come from Falungong groups. If third parties have somehow got these images, we could use them, but Asdfg's remarks about Falungong being the only ones able to obtain such imagery seem to make sense. I don't see the problem. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 06:06, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::At the same time, Falun Gong is known to exaggerate and sensationalize "evidence" as part of its 'counter-propaganda' against the Chinese state. As such we must be extremely careful in using any image whose ultimate source is Falun Gong groups - they are not verifiable. The Epoch Times and other Falun Gong media have been subject to controversy in recent years for using images that are not actually related to the subjects that they describe. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 23:24, 11 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::::Colipon, the case in question has been verified by a third party, so I do not know what you mean when you say "they are not verifiable". You also didn't respond to the issues other editors raised. I definitely do not want to take sides in the age-old pro/anti-Falungong battle, but one must wonder whether your remarks are motivated by a genuine concern that the article be scrupulously verifiable. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 11:01, 12 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::::All the YouTube videos on this issue seem to ultimately source itself to a Falun Gong website. Amnesty has only ever said one small paragraph about the issue - even they are reluctant to present it as fact - "Gao Rongrong, a Falun Gong practitioner, ''reportedly'' died in custody in June 2005." (Emphasis mine). Amnesty does not verify the authenticity of the pictures, even if you argue that they verify Gao's case. I myself do not doubt that this is a case of Falun Gong-related torture. But when you put an image up like that, it needs to be readily verifiable to a third party. Just look at [http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=gao+rongrong&start=10&sa=N these search results] - all belong to Falun Gong sites. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 12:10, 12 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::::::If there is no dispute that the image is authentic, and we acknowledge that the case has been verified by a third party, then what is the problem? As pointed out above, I believe the demand for a third-party image in this case amounts to a demand for no images. Who else would have this kind of image except a Falungong group? I think a dose of common sense and perhaps [[wp:iar]] would be appropriate here. We know the image is genuine, so what need is there for raising technical disputes like this? Isn't this a similar tactic to what Falungong editors are accused of? Do not get me wrong: if there was a legitimate concern that this image was not kosher, that should be raised. Or perhaps you could seek wider community involvement. These are just my views. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 04:51, 13 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::::::That is a sensible perspective. If there is still a problem, maybe try looking at the Beyond the Red Wall documentary (you should be able to find it online). From what I recall, there are images of a practitioner who had his legs burnt. Editors can pick what they prefer: Gao Rongrong's disfigured face, or a guy whose legs were burnt with an iron rod. Either way it shows the despicable nature of the persecution. --<font style="bold">[[User:Asdfg12345|'''Asdfg''']]</font><font color="black" style="bold">[[User_talk:Asdfg12345|'''12345''']]</font> 06:45, 13 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Bringing up an old discussion (Luo Gan) ==<br />
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It is a curious fact of these Falun Gong pages that many issues come up again, long after they were first discussed. Sometimes this is for legitimate reasons, sometimes for illegitimate ones. I believe what I present here is firmly within the former category. The issue is whether the alternative narrative of the lead-up to the Falun Gong persecution should be included on the page or not. The standard narrative is that April 25 lead directly to the persecution, as an action-response dynamic. The alternative narrative is that the persecution was already coming, and April 25 was either part of the overall scheme from inside the upper echelons of CCP leadership, or just another thing that happened on the way, possibly speeding the whole thing up. This alternative narrative is probably most clearly articulated in Gutmann (supportive of it) and Palmer (does not seem to believe it), and parts of it hinted at in Ching, Porter, Zhao (kinda). Part of this alternative narrative is actually already in the article currently, too--about how Zhongnanhai may have been orchestrated. Another part that has been the most hotly disputed, for continually unclear reasons (see the first dispute [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Falun_Gong&oldid=349150187#Luo_Gan here], second [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Falun_Gong#Gutmann_deletions.3F here]) is how He Zuoxiu and Luo Gan are brother-in-law. In saying this, I do not actually suggest much change at all to the article. Merely the note that they are brothers-in-law, and a clarification, of probably one or two sentences, that this alternative reading exists. The great difficulty in this debate has been obtaining a clear explanation for why the brother-in-law connection does not belong; first it was said that the sources were poor, something I recently [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_60#National_Review_a_reliable_source_on_China.3F_MA_thesis_cites_primary_sources--okay_or_not.3F sought a third opinion on]; other "explanations" for why it shouldn't be included attacked me and my motives.<br />
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And just to allay the fears that I'm rehashing something that has already been totally debunked, let me just comment on the last two responses to when I brought this up. <br />
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*The first is [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Falun_Gong&oldid=349150187#Luo_Gan here]. The only disputes presented here, not including the run-around I was given, are that ''the sources are bad'' (proposed by Colipon, supported by Enric Naval), and that when sources discuss the brother-in-law connection, they do not explain how that connection was significant (Ohconfucius).<br />
*In the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Falun_Gong#Gutmann_deletions.3F second one], it was said that the inclusion "still presents no evidence that He and Luo did what they did ''because'' they are married to each other's sisters" (proposed by Colipon after Ohconfucius, tacitly supported by Enric Naval and Simonm223)<br />
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It may be worth noting that the vast majority of those two discussions are lamentably unrelated to the actual dispute. Anyway, by the second dispute the sourcing was no longer presumed problematic. The RS post linked above also probably puts that to rest. The only other contention is that the sources "present no evidence that He and Luo did what they did ''because'' they are married to each other's sisters." <br />
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My response to this is that it's quite irrelevant whether the sources which mention the connection between the two men do not present evidence that they did what they did because they were married to each others sisters. That is a very obscure point of contention: that the sources do not explain why Luo and He did what they did ''because'' of their familial connection wouldn't make sense ''at all'', because who on earth would orchestrate a persecution merely "because" you are brother-in-law with someone. In any case, my response is that it ''doesn't matter'' that the sources are not precise on how or why Luo and He planned their activities, merely that a number of sources note the connection and draw attention to its possible significance. Their familial connection implies that they knew about each other's activities, and it implies that their activities were coordinated. It would be original research to include a direct statement of that order, but this is the ''implication'' given by Gutmann, Porter, and to some extent Zhao. I will copy, again, what they have each written on this:<br />
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<blockquote>''"It was at that point that a physicist published an article in a Tianjin Normal University journal portraying Falun Gong as a dangerous cult. China isn't the West, and these things aren't random: '''The physicist, He Zuoxiu, is the brother-in-law of Luo Gan, at that time the head of public security,''' and the Tianjin Normal University journal answers to the state. The article was a flare in the night sky, a signal and trial of the party's designs."'' (Gutmann, Ethan. [http://www.defenddemocracy.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11786210&Itemid=0 "An occurrence on Fuyou Street: the communist myth of Falun Gong's original sin,"] National Review, July 20, 2009). Emphasis added</blockquote><br />
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<blockquote>''"'''He Zuoxiu, a scientist and one of Luo Gan's relatives,''' perhaps partially motivated by how Li Hongzhi calls modern science limited, seems to have intentionally provoked Falun Gong... '''Things could not have worked out better for the two if they had planned it — which, it appears, they just might have."''''' (Porter, Noah. "Falun Gong in the United States: An Ethnographic Study," University of South Florida, 2003). Emphasis added</blockquote><br />
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<blockquote>''"A number of factors were involved in the souring relations among Falun Gong and the Chinese state and the news media, including ... lobbying efforts on the part of Li’s qigong opponents and '''scientists-cum-ideologues with political motives and affiliations with competing central Party leaders..."''''' (Zhao, Yuezhi (2003). Falun Gong, Identity, and the Struggle over Meaning Inside and Outside China. Rowman & Littlefield publishers, inc.. pp. 209–223 in Contesting Media Power: Alternative Media in a Networked World, ed. Nick Couldry and James Curran.) Emphasis added</blockquote><br />
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It may also be worth noting that the individual who responded to my [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_60#National_Review_a_reliable_source_on_China.3F_MA_thesis_cites_primary_sources--okay_or_not.3F recent notice on the RS board] said: ''"...I'm no expert in the controversy being written about, but a brother-in-law is pretty much immediate family, and if they are involved in the same political matters it's pretty hard to deem that as unencyclopedic. I mean, if this were a biography of a musician, whose brother in law was in the record business, we would certainly mention that in the article."''<br />
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Right now I do not propose any specific way this information should be included. But I propose that 1) The He-Luo connection is obviously notable and has been mentioned by a number of reliable sources. 2) The reason that has been given for keeping it out so far doesn't make sense. 3) I believe this article should briefly include the fact that they are brothers-in-law.<br />
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Further, missing also are notes that make more clear the role of the state in the lead-up to the persecution (such as Ownby's statement that Beijing TV is an official mouthpiece, which was repeatedly deleted also with no good reason), that Falun Gong practitioners were responding to what they considered to be the start of a political campaign, and the general idea that there is a school of thought which considers the persecution premeditated. I expect that in total all this should not add more than 100 words to the article; maybe 50. And it would be sourced to top scholars, views which are so far conspicuously absent. Whatever the case, the Luo-He brother-in-law connection is perhaps the most outstanding issue. And I hope by now it's clear to Colipon that I'm not trying to game the system or bait him. I do not appreciate those remarks. --<font style="bold">[[User:Asdfg12345|'''Asdfg''']]</font><font color="black" style="bold">[[User_talk:Asdfg12345|'''12345''']]</font> 01:56, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:This is an interesting point of contention. I would prefer to wait for further explanation about why the note about their relationship does not belong - getting 'the other side of the story', so to speak. From the above, however, it seems quite appropriate. But I could be persuaded otherwise. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 05:26, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Prima facie I would also say it seems reasonable, as long as it doesn't trespass due weight. I don't think it's irrelevant that they were brothers-in-law. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 06:57, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Of course, it sounds reasonable the way Asdfg12345 presents it - his side of the story. As Homunculus indicates, I am keen to know the problem with the inclusion from the other side. It would also be understandable if previous effective discussion was stymied by personal issues; in that case, if no one can point out what's wrong with the inclusion, it has my 'vote'. I notice Zujine already included some of the peripheral issues mentioned above. [[User:TheSoundAndTheFury|The Sound and the Fury]] ([[User talk:TheSoundAndTheFury|talk]]) 14:11, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::I think Asdfg12345 presents a very good reasoning for the inclusion of this fact. <font color="green">'''&#10004;</font> [[User:Olaf Stephanos|Olaf Stephanos]]''' <font color="darksalmon" size="+1">[[User_talk:Olaf Stephanos|&#9997;]]</font> 20:56, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::There is no causal link between the two suggested in any reputable sources. The selective few RS that talks about this issue has simply said that the relationship exists, none of them provide any substantial reason for anyone to believe that He Zuoxiu wrote his critical piece ''because'' of Luo Gan, nor does it suggest anywhere in reliable sources that the two ever 'collaborated'. This relationship is also notably absent from some of the more notable Falun Gong works, such as Ownby's Falun Gong and the Future of China. If it is so significant, as Asdfg claims, why doesn't Ownby mention it at all? He Zuoxiu is a scientist who has railed against, among other things, traditional Chinese medicine, supernaturalism, and all sorts of Qigong. Luo Gan works for state security, not the propaganda department, nor did he have any role, it seems before 6-10. Some sources contain a few speculative lines or two about this issue (such as Schechter), but no source can substantiate that this relationship had a causal effect on any events that took place. It's fine if we want to include this reference in either Luo or He's article, but inclusion of it here would be nothing more than a [[WP:SYNTHESIS|synthesis]] of the events - i.e., postulating that He Zuoxiu and Luo Gan did what they did ''because'' they were brothers-in-law. Archive is [[/Archive_10#Luo_Gan|here]] for previous discussion. All of this, in other words, is speculative, not substantive. I am not responding to Asdfg's essay because I have had terrible experiences in the past that has convinced me that this user is only on this encyclopedia to edit in favour of Falun Gong, and is currently banned for 6 months on these articles for doing just that. If other editors agree with him, that's fine with me, but to me, this is just more 'balancing the POV' tactics to make the article more favourable towards Falun Gong. Judge for yourselves. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 22:10, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::Just to add on to what I said above, there also seems to be no Chinese language source that actually ''confirms'' that He and Luo are even related to begin with (although I am happy to be proven wrong on this). The only sources I can find that discusses this relationship at all appear on Falun Gong websites - such as [http://www.epochtimes.com/gb/10/3/21/n2851554.htm this one]. This is not to mention that I can't even find the reference on Chinese Falun Gong websites that they are actually brothers-in-law - they only charge that He and Luo [http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%E4%BD%95%E7%A5%9A%E5%BA%A5+%E7%BD%97%E5%B9%B2+%E5%A7%90%E5%A4%AB&start=20&sa=N "collaborated" on the BTV incident], which has also never been verified. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 22:43, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::Didn't Asdfg12345 show above that there are reputable sources discussing the case? As I see it, the sources that mention their relationship intend to highlight the fact that He Zuoxiu and Luo Gan may have well been aware of each other's actions, thoughts and plans in regards to the Falun Gong issue. This has nothing to do with an original synthesis, as long as we don't assert a causal relationship. Postulating that He Zuoxiu and Luo Gan did what they did because of their family ties is different from disclosing their intimate connection in general terms. <font color="green">'''&#10004;</font> [[User:Olaf Stephanos|Olaf Stephanos]]''' <font color="darksalmon" size="+1">[[User_talk:Olaf Stephanos|&#9997;]]</font> 22:46, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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*After reading Colipon's note, I have two concerns. One is whether this would be continuing to push an agenda that Asdfg12345 was banned for; the other is, while it may not wander into direct synthesis, of stating that their relationship influenced their behaviour in the Falungong case, doesn't it certainly imply that? And might not that aspersion be a kind of original synthesis? Those are two objections in my mind. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 03:29, 10 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::I'm not sure it's appropriate to suggest that my arguments are invalid because Colipon accuses me of pushing an agenda. Colipon himself believes Falun Gong is an illegitimate belief system, and is dedicated to giving it an unfavourable portrayal on wiki. He has done so for as long as he has edited the pages. He is unapologetically opposed to Falun Gong, in both his speech and editing. So I think the various claims should be assessed on their own merits, and not be implicated in these ad-hominem struggles. I mentioned that fact about Colipon because newcomers to this may not realise that he is not a neutral knight in shining armor, but a partisan editor with a clear agenda. I say no more on this. Aside from the agenda claims, the only issue is whether including this would be a kind of original synthesis. I do not see how. Homunculus, you are right that including the information certainly ''implies'' that they were aware of each other's conduct. But that is precisely what the sources do, with Porter even stating that more directly. We are not ''saying'' that here. If we said it, it would be OR. Just mentioning it, as it has been shown several sources do, is quite legitimate. This is just narrating the debate more or less as the literature has done. It is clearly part of one narrative of the lead-up to the persecution. And forgive my skepticism with Colipon's appeals to Chinese media. I feel confident that if he had found Chinese Falun Gong websites trumpeting that claim, his argument would have been that I only want it included because it's part of the "Falun Gong line." Since Chinese Falun Gong websites don't mention it explicitly, the argument is instead that it's probably not true. The point is that mentioning their connection is different from making some claim about that. --<font style="bold">[[User:Asdfg12345|'''Asdfg''']]</font><font color="black" style="bold">[[User_talk:Asdfg12345|'''12345''']]</font> 06:39, 13 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::I can see the difference you are making between directly stating something and allowing an implication to stand, as it does in reliable sources. It seems logical. If that is a legitimate interpretation of policy, then I don't see a problem with the inclusion. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 14:50, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Could Colipon also explain why he changed 'symbolic violence' (an accurate term and the one used by the source), and removed the BTV-propaganda remark? There was a good source for that. I am interested to know. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 15:37, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::'Symbolic violence' sounds like a new-fangled term popular among academicians. The point is that these groups were attacked/criticized in the media. Colipon's change gets that across fine. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 06:48, 8 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Suspected [[WP:NPOV]] violations? ==<br />
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The last edit of section "5.2 Controversies" ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falun_Gong&curid=55174&diff=358711563&oldid=358705349| diff here]) by [[User:Mangosour|Mangosour]]([[User_talk:Mangosour|Talk]]) appears--at least to me--to completely change the meaning of a couple of paragraphs. The change is significant enough that it seems likely the cited refs are no longer applicable. This seems to be a hot/controversial topic and, while I sure as heck don't want to run afoul of [[WP:3RR]] in my travels, neither am I willing to let POV-pushing or spin doctoring go unchallenged. I'm pretty sure, though, there is another editor or admin that will help me look at it. Thank you! <small>[[User:UncleBubba|UncleBubba]] ([[User talk:UncleBubba|Talk]]) </small> 20:45, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Yes, obviously a troll. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 00:22, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::I have added about five references to substantiate the point that the cult label is not part of mainstream scholarship. There are many more, I am sure. This is not a controversial point. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 10:29, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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This article still does not express total neutrality. There is pro-Falun Gong bias and not enough attention to the opposite point of view. [[Special:Contributions/97.65.1.140|97.65.1.140]] ([[User talk:97.65.1.140|talk]]) 09:18, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::Points of view should be presented in proportion to their representation in the most reliable sources. In light of this, are you able to substantiate your argument? What should there be more of? [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 00:18, 11 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== "Response to these appeals has been mixed." ==<br />
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I have previously edited the above statement in "response outside China" to include what was stated in the citations. To me this statement alone is ambiguous and lacks the detail that this article should contain. It was reverted once by [[User:UncleBubba]] that :"''The uncited additions really seem to violate WP:NPOV. Disagree? Let's discuss on Talk page.)''" My response was: "''It's not uncited and not againt NPO, it's precisely what is stated in the references following this statement.''" It has now been reverted by another user ([[User:Mrund]]) without any explanations. Can someone please explain why was this edit was continuously reverted? [[User:Sjschen|Sjschen]] ([[User talk:Sjschen|talk]]) 19:17, 7 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I think "response has been mixed" is better, because it summarises both types of reception to Falungong activities. I think elaboration on how the Falungong and its practitioners' activities are received and interpreted would be good, but not in a crude way - either totally praising or condemning them. A group like this is bound to attract a range of responses. I think that should be represented with some awareness of the complexity of all the views, what is behind them, who holds them, etc. Adam Frank and Richard Madsen have written about that. <p>The bit you inserted was the opinion of a theatre critic in the Daily Telegraph, about one of the performances hosted by Falungong (right?). That doesn't mean that Falungong's activities are generally seen as propagandistic, or that that point of view should not be broadly summarised. Mainly it sounds like more of a label to me, which begs an explanation. I think we would be better with a more sophisticated appraisal that explains the whys and wherefores, and delivers value to the reader, rather than giving them a convenient 'box' in which to place the subject. That would be my approach, to this and other subjects. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 06:44, 8 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Agree. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 11:33, 11 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:While what I have summarized from the cited articles is decidedly short, I would not say that it's "crude", or much less an attempt at labeling. To be fair, most of this article effectively "boxes" Falungong as being a solely religious organization under the persecution of the PROC, when it is much more than just that. Though I definitely agree that my addition "...would be better with a more sophisticated appraisal that explains the whys and wherefores, and delivers value to the reader...", the same statement could be easily applied to the original pithy summary of the criticisms ("''Response to these appeals has been mixed.''"). A fuller extent of the organization's activities outside of China and the response to it (be it positive or negative) needs to be plainly stated from the sources without the editors' zealous filtering. [[User:Sjschen|Sjschen]] ([[User talk:Sjschen|talk]]) 21:23, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::There is already a good discussion of Falungong practitioners' activities outside China, including how those activities and strategies have been interpreted. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 06:06, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Hello there. I am the original writer of statement "Response to these appeals has been mixed." Although I do agree that this area of contention should be further expanded, I do not agree with your edit to "Falun Gong events have have been noted by some as been laden with propaganda or politically motivated." I am not going to agree or disagree with the general premise, but I intentionally made the statement to be as moderate as possible. Your statement without further expansion is incendiary and would have been the target of vehement pro-FLG edits. [[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 23:38, 21 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== laughably skewed article ==<br />
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Totally fails to mention that Western academics have repeatedly referred to Falun Gong as a cult; simply reading the titles of works on the subject of Falun Gong in the citations section reveals this fact. Why do they call it a cult? Because Falun Gong is a dictionary definition cult, whether you like it or not. You know an article is skewed when it actually makes you sympathize with the government of communist china. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.5.129.24|86.5.129.24]] ([[User talk:86.5.129.24|talk]]) 20:35, 14 May 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
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I don't get it: why does the article make you sympathise with the government of communist china? --<font style="bold">[[User:Asdfg12345|'''Asdfg''']]</font><font color="black" style="bold">[[User_talk:Asdfg12345|'''12345''']]</font> 13:13, 14 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Perhaps you could list which Western academics you refer to? I understood that this was a 'fringe theory' (as previously argued by Asdfg12345). There was a list somewhere, but I don't have the time to pursue that now. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 06:06, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::"You know an article is skewed when it actually makes you sympathize with the government of communist china.", marvelous, I might save that quote. Yes, better to give specific sources as examples. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 14:12, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::This from the BBC in 1998 doesn't look very fringe [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/330367.stm "World: Asia-Pacific Falun Gong: A new cult emerges"] <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 14:50, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::There is no "dictionary definition of cult" and that's the whole point. See any good dictionary gives you at least 3 totally different definitions of a cult ranging from ritual practices to a group with theist beliefs that aren't mainstream to an authoritarian and exploitative organization resorting to violence and forced labor. If you just say "cult" and then back it up with references of scholars that also used the term cult, then that's no good cause those scholars might have simply meant "a group with theist beliefs that aren't mainstream". So instead you should always use clear terms. Of course the Communist Party uses the term and means it in an extremely derogatory way. But it's made clear in the article that they mean it in such a derogatory way. Whereas in your BBC article for example it's not clear at all which of the definitions is meant and it's not even necessarily meant in a derogatory way at all. Actually the only time the BBC article says something negative about Falung Gong is when it quotes the Communist Party. --[[User:Hoerth|Hoerth]] ([[User talk:Hoerth|talk]]) 22:11, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::Hoerth identifies the issue properly here. It should be obvious that a BBC article soon after the Zhongnanhai demonstration, mostly quoting official sources, is not nearly as authoritative as a decade of scholarship. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 00:07, 11 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Article not neutral or academic ==<br />
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In my opinion, the current article does not provide a neutral enough perspective in Falun Gong. I agree with the above poster and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=309713888#Dilip_rajeev Ohconfucius's enforcement motion], that the article is pro-FLG. <br />
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I would also contend that this article seems similar in nature to what I have read from FLG promotional materials and heard from my personal encounters with FLG practitioners in that there is a heavy focus on their prosecution by the CCP rather than the overall nature of FLG. There should be a greater exposition of the beliefs and practices unique to FLG, and of the FLG organizational structure. This opinion, of course, by no means is meant to lessen the seriousness of the the atrocities committed by the CCP against FLG followers.<br />
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I would also contend that after the year-long domination of this article by pro-FLG editors (asdfg12345, Olaf Stephanos and HappyInGeneral) with the edits by FLG practitioners (Dilip rajeev, FalunGongDisciple, etc), the results of their dominance still linger. With the degree of controversy surrounding this group as evidenced just by this talk page, I find it surprising that there is no mention of the controversial nature of the group in the intro. Even under the controversies section, the section seems to white-wash the arguments used by opponents of the FLG by not including the details of the conservative nature of the group (eg. regarding mixed-raced couples, rock music, etc), omitting the more fanciful claims by the leader (eg flight, walking through walls, etc) and dismissing the controversy as a cultural misunderstanding while emphasizing the gentle nature of the group. I also find the omission the the controversies surrounding the health claims, particularly those surrounding FLG cancer patients being urged not to receive chemotherapy particularly egregious.<br />
[[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 01:44, 22 June 2010 (UTC)</div>Hmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Falun_Gong&diff=369455317Talk:Falun Gong2010-06-21T23:38:03Z<p>Hmm...: /* "Response to these appeals has been mixed." */</p>
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== In relation to qigong and its roots in Chinese culture ==<br />
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In 1992, Li Hongzhi introduced Falun Gong and along with teachings that touched upon a wide range of topics, from detailed exposition on qigong related phenomenon and cultivation practice to science and morality. In the next few years, Falun Gong quickly grew in popularity across China to become the most popular qigong practice in Chinese History.<ref name=Ownby /> Falun Gong was welcomed into the state-controlled Scientific Qigong Research Association, which sponsored and helped to organize many of his activities between 1992 and 1994, including 54 large-scale lectures. In 1992 and 1993 he won government awards at the Beijing Oriental Health Expos, including the ''"Qigong Master most acclaimed by the Masses"'' and ''"The Award for Advancing Boundary Science."''<ref name=Fellow> The Past, Present and Future of Falun Gong, A lecture by Harold White Fellow, Benjamin Penny, at the National Library of Australia, Canberra, 2001, [http://www.nla.gov.au/grants/haroldwhite/papers/bpenny.html], accessed 31/12/07</ref> <br />
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According to academics, Falun Gong originally surfaced in the institutional field of alternative Chinese science, not religion. The debate between what can be called "[[naturalism (philosophy)|naturalist]]" and "[[supernaturalism|supernaturalist]]" schools of ''qigong'' theory has produced a considerable amount of literature. Xu Jian stated in The [[Journal of Asian Studies]] 58 (4 November 1999): "Situated both in scientific researches on ''qigong'' and in the prevailing nationalistic revival of traditional beliefs and values, this discursive struggle has articulated itself as an intellectual debate and enlisted on both sides a host of well-known writers and scientists — so much so that a veritable corpus of literature on ''qigong'' resulted. In it, two conflicting discourses became identifiable. Taking “discourse” in its contemporary sense as referring to forms of representation that generate specific cultural and historical fields of meaning, we can describe one such discourse as [[rational]] and [[scientific]] and the other as [[psychosomatic]] and [[metaphysics|metaphysical]]. Each strives to establish its own order of power and knowledge, its own “truth” about the “reality” of ''qigong'', although they differ drastically in their explanation of many of its phenomena. The controversy centers on the question of whether and how ''qigong'' can induce “supranormal abilities” (''teyi gongneng''). The psychosomatic discourse emphasizes the inexplicable power of ''qigong'' and relishes its super-normal mechanisms or which causative factors which go beyond wht canbe explained by presentday scietific models, whereas the rational discourse strives to demystify many of its phenomena and to situate it strictly in the knowledge present day modern science." The Chinese government has generally tried to encourage ''qigong'' as a science and discourage religious or supernatural elements. However, the category of science in China tends to include things that are generally not considered scientific in the West, including ''qigong'' and [[traditional Chinese medicine]].<br />
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David Aikman has written in [[American Spectator]] (March 2000): "Americans may believe that ''qigong'' belongs in a general category of socially neutral, New Age-style concepts that are merely subjective, not necessarily harmful, and incapable of scientific proof. But China's scientific community doesn't share this view. Experiments under controlled conditions established by the [[Chinese Academy of Sciences]] in the late 1970s and early 1980s concluded that qi, when emitted by a ''qigong'' expert, actually constitutes measurable infrared electromagnetic waves and causes chemical changes in static water through mental concentration. Qi, according to much of China's scientific establishment, for all intents existed."<ref>American Spectator, March 2000, Vol. 33, Issue 2</ref><br />
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Li Hongzhi states in [http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/europe1998a.htm Falun Buddha Fa Lectures in Europe]:<br />
<blockquote><br />
''"Since the time Dafa was made public, I have unveiled some inexplicable phenomena in ''qigong'' as well as things that hadn’t been explained in the ''qigong'' community. But this isn’t the reason why so many people are studying Dafa. It’s because our Fa can truly enable people to Consummate, truly save people, and allow you to truly ascend to high levels in the process of cultivation. Whether it’s your realm of mind or the physical quality of your body, the Fa truly enables you to reach the standards of different levels. It absolutely can assume this role."''<br />
</blockquote><br />
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Andrew P. Kipnis is quoted as stating: "...to the Western layperson, ''qigong'' of all sorts may seem to be religious because it deals with spiritual matters. Because Li Hongzhi makes use of many concepts from Buddhism and Taoism in his writings, this may make Falun Gong seem even more like a religion to the outsider; bur Falun Gong grew initially into a space termed scientific [in China], but was mostly insulated from the spaces formally acknowledged as institutionalized science in Western countries"<ref>Porter 2003, pp. 38-39. Available online: [http://www.lib.usf.edu/ETD-db/theses/available/etd-06122003-113105/unrestricted/FalunGongInTheUS-NoahPorter-Thesis.pdf]</ref><br />
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The term 'qigong' was coined in the early 1950s as an alternative label to past spiritual disciplines rooted Buddhism or Taoism, that promoted the belief in the supernatural, immortality and pursuit of spiritual transcendence. The new term was constructed to avoid danger of association with ancient spiritual practices which were labeled "superstitious" and persecuted during the Maoist era.<ref name=Ownby> [http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~tnchina/commentary/ownby1000.html "Falungong as a Cultural Revitalization Movement: An Historian Looks at Contemporary China."] Professor David Ownby, Department of History, University of Montreal, , accessed 31/12/07</ref> In Communist China, where spirituality and religion are looked-down upon, the concept was "tolerated" because it carried with it no overt religious or spiritual elements; and millions flocked to it during China's spiritual vacuum of the 1980s and 1990s. Scholars argue that the immense popularity of qigong in China could, in part, lie in the fact that the public saw in it a way to improve and maintain health. According to Ownby, this rapidly became a social phenomenon of considerable importance.<ref name=Ownby /><br />
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== Membership and finances ==<br />
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<!--The following quote from Porter seems to be "apropos of nothing", i.e. not really related to the rest of the section. It might be useful but perhaps it belongs somewhere else, not here.<br />
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Porter writes that "Most who have written about Falun Gong have simply relied upon the writings of Li Hongzhi, the websites, and newspaper articles for their information about Falun Gong, and then applied the theoretical perspective of their discipline and their personal perspective in analyzing it."<ref name="Porter"> Noah Porter, (Masters Thesis for the University of South Florida) July 18, 2003, [http://www.lib.usf.edu/ETD-db/theses/available/etd-06122003-113105/unrestricted/FalunGongInTheUS-NoahPorter-Thesis.pdf "Falun Gong in the United States: An Ethnographic Study"], retrieved June 14, 2006 </ref>Porter writes that he has hoped to "bridge" this communications gap with an anthropological study of Falun Gong, "to promote a broader understanding." He states in his thesis that "…practitioners do not isolate themselves from non-practitioners"<ref name="Porter"/> and are always exposed to different "identity streams," which he defines as "different forms of media, people, and ideas."--><br />
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<!--This bit about Palmer's field notes and preliminary research report interrupts the flow. It's not directly relevant although it could be added as a note.<br />
[[Sociology|Sociologist]] Susan Palmer's [[field notes]] and a preliminary research report on Falun Dafa practitioners were released in the [[Nova Religio]] journal (nr. 4, 1 October 2000).--><br />
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[[Sociology|Sociologist]] Susan Palmer writes that, "...Falun Gong does not behave like other new religions. For one thing, its organization - if one can even call it that - is quite nebulous. There are no church buildings, rented spaces, no priests or administrators. At first I assumed this was defensive [...] now, I'm beginning to think that what you see is exactly what you get - Master Li's teachings on the Net on the one hand and a global network of practitioners on the other. Traveling through North America, all I dug up was a handful of volunteer contact persons. The local membership (they vehemently reject that word) is whoever happens to show up at the park on a particular Saturday morning to do qigong."<br />
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===Finances===<br />
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In his thesis, Noah Porter takes up the issue of Falun Gong and finance in Mainland China. He quotes and responds to some of the allegations of the Chinese Communist Party that Li benefited financially from teaching the practice. Porter writes that when teaching seminars, there was an admission of 40 yuan per new practitioner and 20 yuan for repeat practitioners--with the repeat practitioners making up for 50-75% of the admissions. He goes on to say with respect to the CCP's claims: "...but the Chinese government figures for the profits of the seminars counted all attendees as paying the 40-yuan fee charged to newcomers. Also, the Chinese Qigong Research Society received 40% of admission receipts from July 1993 to September 1994. Falun Gong's first four training seminars took in a total of 20,000 yuan, which is only 10% of the 200,000 figure cited by the Chinese government. Finally, from that 20,000 yuan, they had several operating expenses..."<ref>Porter 2003, p 197</ref><br />
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Ian Johnson points out that during the greatest period of Falun Gong book sales in China, Li Hongzhi never received any royalties because all publications were bootleg.<ref name=wildgrass>Johnson, Ian. ''Wild Grass: three stories of change in modern China''. Pantheon books. 2004. pp 23-229</ref><br />
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James Tong writes about the competing claims by Falun Gong and the Chinese government in 'The China Quarterly' journal, 2003. He writes that the government has attempted to portray Falun Gong as being financially savvy with a centralized administration system and a variety of mechanisms for deriving profit from the practice. He also looks over Falun Gong's claims of having no hierarchy, administration, membership or financial accounts, and that seminar admission was charged at a minimal rate.<ref> James Tong, "An Organizational Analysis of the Falun Gong: Structure, Communications, Financing", The China Quarterly, 2002, 636-660: p 636</ref> Tong writes that it was in the government's interest, in the post-crackdown context, to portray Falun Gong as being highly organised: "The more organized the Falun Gong could be shown to be, then the more justified the regime's repression in the name of social order was."<ref>Tong 2002, p 638 </ref> He writes that the government's charges that Falun Gong made excessive profits, charged exorbitant fees, and that Li Hongzhi led a lavish lifestyle "...lack both internal and external substantiating evidence" and points out that that despite the arrests and scrutiny, the authorities "had disclosed no financial accounts that established the official charge and credibly countered Falun Gong rebuttals."<ref>Tong 2002, p 657</ref><br />
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Li Hongzhi stipulates in his books ''Falun Gong'' and ''Zhuan Falun'' that practitioners should only voluntarily help others learn the exercises and that this could never be done for fame and money, and also stipulates that practitioners must not accept any fee, donation or gift in return for their voluntarily teaching the practice. According to Falun Gong, Li's insistence that the practice be offered free of charge caused a rift with the China Qigong Research Society, the state administrative body under which Falun Dafa was initially introduced. Li subsequently withdrew from the organization.<br />
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Falun Gong website often state on their pages that "All Falun Gong Activities Are Free of Charge and Run by Volunteers"<ref>Learning the Practice, [http://www.falundafa.org/], accessed 21 July 2007</ref><br />
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In an interview in Sydney on May 2, 1999, mentioning his financial status, Li said : "In mainland China I published so many books, but added together, they haven't exceeded twenty thousand Renminbi (equivalent to US $ 2,469). This is what the publishing company gave me. When publishing books in other countries of the world, you know there is a rule, which pays 5 or 6% royalties to the author, so each time I can only get a little bit, a few hundred, or a few thousand dollars." <ref>Li Hongzhi, Lecture in Sydney, 1999, [http://www.falundafa.ca/library/english/sydney/xini_e.html], accessed 21 July 2007</ref><br />
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== Added images, and minor sundry ==<br />
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I made a few changes, including adding some images and recasting the part about controversies on the basis of the discussion at the teachings of Falungong page. If there's anything remiss, please note. There are more controversies than what is listed there - something that will need to be improved on later. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 15:23, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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In fact, the issue of the Falungong being blocked from entering parades, pointed out by another contributor on the teachings discussion page, is one missing controversy. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 15:46, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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[ec] Great work. There are surely more controversies, but it's often a matter of which are notable and which aren't. It's been suggested that consulting scholarly works is a good idea for establishing notability--something I'd agree with. --<font style="bold">[[User:Asdfg12345|'''Asdfg''']]</font><font color="black" style="bold">[[User_talk:Asdfg12345|'''12345''']]</font> 15:48, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:I removed the image, I hope that is okay. The references were broken, ostensibly taken from the archives of another article. These references need to be checked, because some users have raised the issue that the majority of these images [http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=gao+rongrong&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= link directly] to Falun Gong primary sources that have little credibility. I am not saying that this particular image of Gao Rongrong belongs to a Falun Gong primary source, but a potentially controversial image must be checked thoroughly. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 21:18, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Thanks for the enthusiasm for good sourcing, I hadn't noticed that the citations were done improperly. I have properly cited it to the Amnesty 2006 Annual report, which has this to say: <br />
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::<blockquote>"Gao Rongrong, a Falun Gong practitioner, died in custody in June after being detained in Longshan Reeducation through Labour facility in Shenyang, Liaoning province. Officials had reportedly beaten her in 2004, including by using electro-shock batons on her face and neck, which caused severe blistering and eyesight problems, after she was discovered reading Falun Gong materials in the facility."</blockquote><br />
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::The image I will use comes from [http://www.faluninfo.net/article/761/ Faluninfo.net], which is indeed a primary source. It's natural that, of course, images of Falungong practitioners who have been tortured will come from Falungong sources. Her practitioner colleagues would presumably be the only ones with the means to sneak into a hospital and photograph her condition. I do not see this as a problem - you may have to elaborate on that. <p>The other source comes from Youtube videos which, while not much of a reputable source at all, serves in this case only as one piece of the corroborative evidence. The persecution itself, and treatment of Falungong is well documented, so we do not rely on Youtube or Faluninfo for that - merely instances of what has already been widely documented. Please clearly state any problems, and consider waiting until other editors have given their opinion before removing the image again. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 00:06, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::I want you to know that I hate to edit war. Thus unless I was reasonably sure that the image should not be on the article be it for sourcing or any other policy reasons, I would not have removed it. You may, if you wish, bring this issue to any noticeboard of your choice to gather some opinions. These noticeboards never provided much useful feedback, but it's worth a try. Or if you are confident of your own reasons of putting the image there, just re-insert it. I will not revert it. All Falun Gong sources amount to [[WP:SPS|Self-published sources]], whose use should be limited to describing the position of Falun Gong, not to describe any facts. The same applies for Chinese government documents - they represent the Chinese gov't, not the hard facts. We know that there is a propaganda war going on between the two sides, thus it is reasonable to dig deeply on any issue (such as organ harvesting) before we can reasonably conclude that their inclusion is warranted. Using Falun Gong sources to describe the ill-treatment of its practitioners is basically equivalent to using Chinese government sources to describe why Falun Gong is a cult. Both groups have an inherent agenda. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 00:19, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::In this case the content of the image is verified by at least Amnesty International, so I think it should be fine. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 00:38, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::I read the Amnesty Report. It does make mention of Gao Rongrong, but no pictures. I wanted to ask a few questions. Which third-party source actually verifies that the picture of Gao Rongrong on Faluninfo.net is actually a picture of the same Gao that appeared on the Amnesty Report? All Amnesty says conclusively is that Gao died in custody. When discussing torture, Amnesty only says that she was "reportedly beaten". Let's assume this is true. Where are these 'reports'? Do they come from Falun Gong websites, or do they come from recognized news organizations? And the YouTube video, well, that's just not considered a reliable source. You can try to go to the Reliable Sources Noticeboard if you don't believe me. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 00:53, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::Oh come on Colipon. You're not serious are you? The Amnesty thing says she was beaten with electro-shock batons, and AI New Zealand used to have a Q&A with that horrifying picture featured; it's no longer available from what I can tell. Are you saying you don't think that picture is Gao Rongrong? Who else do you think is going to get this information out, as Zujine says, than Falun Gong practitioners? Where does Amnesty get its information? Of course, these are all first and second hand accounts, the vast majority from Falun Gong practitioners themselves. That's not the point though, the point is whether third parties like Amnesty and media organisations believe them and report on them. And they have obviously done both. Further, allow me to defend the work of Falun Gong groups. Ownby says in his preface, for example: ''"These violations have been exposed and condemned by such well-known human rights organizations as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, as well as by numerous Falun Gong organizations whose quite professional publications have been generally accepted as legitimate and trustworthy by these human rights organizations."'' and in the first page of the introduction that ''"The ensuing campaign of suppression has been reminiscent of the extremes of the Cultural Revolution (1966-1976). According to information compiled by Falun Gong—which is generally accepted as accurate by international human rights organizations— since 1999, more than 3,000 practitioners have died in police custody."'' So I don't think the reliability of Falun Gong sources is an issue here. We have an expert saying they are reliable, and considered reliable by other human rights groups. The photo is obviously genuine, it has been reported by third parties, and unfortunately I think you are trying to wikilawyer its exclusion because you don't like it. For you it's just "positive propaganda" for Falun Gong. What can one say to that? I applaud Zujine's forthright approach here. I hope he is not discouraged by the response. --<font style="bold">[[User:Asdfg12345|'''Asdfg''']]</font><font color="black" style="bold">[[User_talk:Asdfg12345|'''12345''']]</font> 01:49, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::Well, I'm not reverting anything. I am certain that someone else will come onto this talk page and bring about other reasons for us to take the picture off. It's not just a WP:RS issue. It's also [[WP:SOAP|sensationalistic]], [[WP:UNDUE|given undue weight]], and not [[WP:A|given proper attribution]]. Since I am thoroughly tired of editing everything Falun Gong, I don't have much energy left to tell the community why the picture does not belong. I am confident the community will reach that decision sooner or later on its own. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 02:30, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::Can you please explain why you think it's sensationalistic? Again, I think that's just another argument for trying to exclude the image, but which, when you think about it, doesn't really make sense. Which picture of a Falun Gong torture victim would not be "sensationalistic"? Or should the pages be sanitised of all these unpleasant images because you think they are "senationalistic"? Take a look at the [[Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse]] for example--we had better go and delete them, then, under this logic. Secondly, it's ''one'' image used to illustrate the torture meted out to Falun Gong practitioners. If there was a gallery on the page I would also think it inappropriate, but torture is a key part of the persecution, and having an image illustrating that seems quite legitimate. The other problem is that the source may not be reliable--it's attribution is clear, but there may be a complaint that it doesn't belong because it comes from a Falun Gong source. That's simple to respond to: basically any picture of a Falun Gong torture victim in China was taken by a Falun Gong practitioner or supporter, at great personal risk. I remember emailing Minghui to get them to release some of those images, and they refused, citing this. Those images belong to Falun Gong practitioners, they're the only people who could obtain them, and they are the source of these images. So... of course the image comes from a Falun Gong source. The real question is whether the case in question has been verified by third parties, and it has. The rest is just wikilawyering, and a continuation of the strategy of playing down the persecution. I wrote my thoughts about that elsewhere. Suffice to say, I'm not a fan. --<font style="bold">[[User:Asdfg12345|'''Asdfg''']]</font><font color="black" style="bold">[[User_talk:Asdfg12345|'''12345''']]</font> 03:20, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::Personally I think it's normal to have a photo of the abuse documented in the article. I think it's also normal that such images would come from Falungong groups. If third parties have somehow got these images, we could use them, but Asdfg's remarks about Falungong being the only ones able to obtain such imagery seem to make sense. I don't see the problem. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 06:06, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::At the same time, Falun Gong is known to exaggerate and sensationalize "evidence" as part of its 'counter-propaganda' against the Chinese state. As such we must be extremely careful in using any image whose ultimate source is Falun Gong groups - they are not verifiable. The Epoch Times and other Falun Gong media have been subject to controversy in recent years for using images that are not actually related to the subjects that they describe. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 23:24, 11 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::::Colipon, the case in question has been verified by a third party, so I do not know what you mean when you say "they are not verifiable". You also didn't respond to the issues other editors raised. I definitely do not want to take sides in the age-old pro/anti-Falungong battle, but one must wonder whether your remarks are motivated by a genuine concern that the article be scrupulously verifiable. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 11:01, 12 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::::All the YouTube videos on this issue seem to ultimately source itself to a Falun Gong website. Amnesty has only ever said one small paragraph about the issue - even they are reluctant to present it as fact - "Gao Rongrong, a Falun Gong practitioner, ''reportedly'' died in custody in June 2005." (Emphasis mine). Amnesty does not verify the authenticity of the pictures, even if you argue that they verify Gao's case. I myself do not doubt that this is a case of Falun Gong-related torture. But when you put an image up like that, it needs to be readily verifiable to a third party. Just look at [http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=gao+rongrong&start=10&sa=N these search results] - all belong to Falun Gong sites. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 12:10, 12 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::::::If there is no dispute that the image is authentic, and we acknowledge that the case has been verified by a third party, then what is the problem? As pointed out above, I believe the demand for a third-party image in this case amounts to a demand for no images. Who else would have this kind of image except a Falungong group? I think a dose of common sense and perhaps [[wp:iar]] would be appropriate here. We know the image is genuine, so what need is there for raising technical disputes like this? Isn't this a similar tactic to what Falungong editors are accused of? Do not get me wrong: if there was a legitimate concern that this image was not kosher, that should be raised. Or perhaps you could seek wider community involvement. These are just my views. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 04:51, 13 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::::::That is a sensible perspective. If there is still a problem, maybe try looking at the Beyond the Red Wall documentary (you should be able to find it online). From what I recall, there are images of a practitioner who had his legs burnt. Editors can pick what they prefer: Gao Rongrong's disfigured face, or a guy whose legs were burnt with an iron rod. Either way it shows the despicable nature of the persecution. --<font style="bold">[[User:Asdfg12345|'''Asdfg''']]</font><font color="black" style="bold">[[User_talk:Asdfg12345|'''12345''']]</font> 06:45, 13 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Bringing up an old discussion (Luo Gan) ==<br />
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It is a curious fact of these Falun Gong pages that many issues come up again, long after they were first discussed. Sometimes this is for legitimate reasons, sometimes for illegitimate ones. I believe what I present here is firmly within the former category. The issue is whether the alternative narrative of the lead-up to the Falun Gong persecution should be included on the page or not. The standard narrative is that April 25 lead directly to the persecution, as an action-response dynamic. The alternative narrative is that the persecution was already coming, and April 25 was either part of the overall scheme from inside the upper echelons of CCP leadership, or just another thing that happened on the way, possibly speeding the whole thing up. This alternative narrative is probably most clearly articulated in Gutmann (supportive of it) and Palmer (does not seem to believe it), and parts of it hinted at in Ching, Porter, Zhao (kinda). Part of this alternative narrative is actually already in the article currently, too--about how Zhongnanhai may have been orchestrated. Another part that has been the most hotly disputed, for continually unclear reasons (see the first dispute [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Falun_Gong&oldid=349150187#Luo_Gan here], second [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Falun_Gong#Gutmann_deletions.3F here]) is how He Zuoxiu and Luo Gan are brother-in-law. In saying this, I do not actually suggest much change at all to the article. Merely the note that they are brothers-in-law, and a clarification, of probably one or two sentences, that this alternative reading exists. The great difficulty in this debate has been obtaining a clear explanation for why the brother-in-law connection does not belong; first it was said that the sources were poor, something I recently [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_60#National_Review_a_reliable_source_on_China.3F_MA_thesis_cites_primary_sources--okay_or_not.3F sought a third opinion on]; other "explanations" for why it shouldn't be included attacked me and my motives.<br />
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And just to allay the fears that I'm rehashing something that has already been totally debunked, let me just comment on the last two responses to when I brought this up. <br />
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*The first is [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Falun_Gong&oldid=349150187#Luo_Gan here]. The only disputes presented here, not including the run-around I was given, are that ''the sources are bad'' (proposed by Colipon, supported by Enric Naval), and that when sources discuss the brother-in-law connection, they do not explain how that connection was significant (Ohconfucius).<br />
*In the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Falun_Gong#Gutmann_deletions.3F second one], it was said that the inclusion "still presents no evidence that He and Luo did what they did ''because'' they are married to each other's sisters" (proposed by Colipon after Ohconfucius, tacitly supported by Enric Naval and Simonm223)<br />
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It may be worth noting that the vast majority of those two discussions are lamentably unrelated to the actual dispute. Anyway, by the second dispute the sourcing was no longer presumed problematic. The RS post linked above also probably puts that to rest. The only other contention is that the sources "present no evidence that He and Luo did what they did ''because'' they are married to each other's sisters." <br />
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My response to this is that it's quite irrelevant whether the sources which mention the connection between the two men do not present evidence that they did what they did because they were married to each others sisters. That is a very obscure point of contention: that the sources do not explain why Luo and He did what they did ''because'' of their familial connection wouldn't make sense ''at all'', because who on earth would orchestrate a persecution merely "because" you are brother-in-law with someone. In any case, my response is that it ''doesn't matter'' that the sources are not precise on how or why Luo and He planned their activities, merely that a number of sources note the connection and draw attention to its possible significance. Their familial connection implies that they knew about each other's activities, and it implies that their activities were coordinated. It would be original research to include a direct statement of that order, but this is the ''implication'' given by Gutmann, Porter, and to some extent Zhao. I will copy, again, what they have each written on this:<br />
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<blockquote>''"It was at that point that a physicist published an article in a Tianjin Normal University journal portraying Falun Gong as a dangerous cult. China isn't the West, and these things aren't random: '''The physicist, He Zuoxiu, is the brother-in-law of Luo Gan, at that time the head of public security,''' and the Tianjin Normal University journal answers to the state. The article was a flare in the night sky, a signal and trial of the party's designs."'' (Gutmann, Ethan. [http://www.defenddemocracy.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11786210&Itemid=0 "An occurrence on Fuyou Street: the communist myth of Falun Gong's original sin,"] National Review, July 20, 2009). Emphasis added</blockquote><br />
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<blockquote>''"'''He Zuoxiu, a scientist and one of Luo Gan's relatives,''' perhaps partially motivated by how Li Hongzhi calls modern science limited, seems to have intentionally provoked Falun Gong... '''Things could not have worked out better for the two if they had planned it — which, it appears, they just might have."''''' (Porter, Noah. "Falun Gong in the United States: An Ethnographic Study," University of South Florida, 2003). Emphasis added</blockquote><br />
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<blockquote>''"A number of factors were involved in the souring relations among Falun Gong and the Chinese state and the news media, including ... lobbying efforts on the part of Li’s qigong opponents and '''scientists-cum-ideologues with political motives and affiliations with competing central Party leaders..."''''' (Zhao, Yuezhi (2003). Falun Gong, Identity, and the Struggle over Meaning Inside and Outside China. Rowman & Littlefield publishers, inc.. pp. 209–223 in Contesting Media Power: Alternative Media in a Networked World, ed. Nick Couldry and James Curran.) Emphasis added</blockquote><br />
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It may also be worth noting that the individual who responded to my [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_60#National_Review_a_reliable_source_on_China.3F_MA_thesis_cites_primary_sources--okay_or_not.3F recent notice on the RS board] said: ''"...I'm no expert in the controversy being written about, but a brother-in-law is pretty much immediate family, and if they are involved in the same political matters it's pretty hard to deem that as unencyclopedic. I mean, if this were a biography of a musician, whose brother in law was in the record business, we would certainly mention that in the article."''<br />
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Right now I do not propose any specific way this information should be included. But I propose that 1) The He-Luo connection is obviously notable and has been mentioned by a number of reliable sources. 2) The reason that has been given for keeping it out so far doesn't make sense. 3) I believe this article should briefly include the fact that they are brothers-in-law.<br />
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Further, missing also are notes that make more clear the role of the state in the lead-up to the persecution (such as Ownby's statement that Beijing TV is an official mouthpiece, which was repeatedly deleted also with no good reason), that Falun Gong practitioners were responding to what they considered to be the start of a political campaign, and the general idea that there is a school of thought which considers the persecution premeditated. I expect that in total all this should not add more than 100 words to the article; maybe 50. And it would be sourced to top scholars, views which are so far conspicuously absent. Whatever the case, the Luo-He brother-in-law connection is perhaps the most outstanding issue. And I hope by now it's clear to Colipon that I'm not trying to game the system or bait him. I do not appreciate those remarks. --<font style="bold">[[User:Asdfg12345|'''Asdfg''']]</font><font color="black" style="bold">[[User_talk:Asdfg12345|'''12345''']]</font> 01:56, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:This is an interesting point of contention. I would prefer to wait for further explanation about why the note about their relationship does not belong - getting 'the other side of the story', so to speak. From the above, however, it seems quite appropriate. But I could be persuaded otherwise. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 05:26, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Prima facie I would also say it seems reasonable, as long as it doesn't trespass due weight. I don't think it's irrelevant that they were brothers-in-law. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 06:57, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Of course, it sounds reasonable the way Asdfg12345 presents it - his side of the story. As Homunculus indicates, I am keen to know the problem with the inclusion from the other side. It would also be understandable if previous effective discussion was stymied by personal issues; in that case, if no one can point out what's wrong with the inclusion, it has my 'vote'. I notice Zujine already included some of the peripheral issues mentioned above. [[User:TheSoundAndTheFury|The Sound and the Fury]] ([[User talk:TheSoundAndTheFury|talk]]) 14:11, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::I think Asdfg12345 presents a very good reasoning for the inclusion of this fact. <font color="green">'''&#10004;</font> [[User:Olaf Stephanos|Olaf Stephanos]]''' <font color="darksalmon" size="+1">[[User_talk:Olaf Stephanos|&#9997;]]</font> 20:56, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::There is no causal link between the two suggested in any reputable sources. The selective few RS that talks about this issue has simply said that the relationship exists, none of them provide any substantial reason for anyone to believe that He Zuoxiu wrote his critical piece ''because'' of Luo Gan, nor does it suggest anywhere in reliable sources that the two ever 'collaborated'. This relationship is also notably absent from some of the more notable Falun Gong works, such as Ownby's Falun Gong and the Future of China. If it is so significant, as Asdfg claims, why doesn't Ownby mention it at all? He Zuoxiu is a scientist who has railed against, among other things, traditional Chinese medicine, supernaturalism, and all sorts of Qigong. Luo Gan works for state security, not the propaganda department, nor did he have any role, it seems before 6-10. Some sources contain a few speculative lines or two about this issue (such as Schechter), but no source can substantiate that this relationship had a causal effect on any events that took place. It's fine if we want to include this reference in either Luo or He's article, but inclusion of it here would be nothing more than a [[WP:SYNTHESIS|synthesis]] of the events - i.e., postulating that He Zuoxiu and Luo Gan did what they did ''because'' they were brothers-in-law. Archive is [[/Archive_10#Luo_Gan|here]] for previous discussion. All of this, in other words, is speculative, not substantive. I am not responding to Asdfg's essay because I have had terrible experiences in the past that has convinced me that this user is only on this encyclopedia to edit in favour of Falun Gong, and is currently banned for 6 months on these articles for doing just that. If other editors agree with him, that's fine with me, but to me, this is just more 'balancing the POV' tactics to make the article more favourable towards Falun Gong. Judge for yourselves. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 22:10, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::Just to add on to what I said above, there also seems to be no Chinese language source that actually ''confirms'' that He and Luo are even related to begin with (although I am happy to be proven wrong on this). The only sources I can find that discusses this relationship at all appear on Falun Gong websites - such as [http://www.epochtimes.com/gb/10/3/21/n2851554.htm this one]. This is not to mention that I can't even find the reference on Chinese Falun Gong websites that they are actually brothers-in-law - they only charge that He and Luo [http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%E4%BD%95%E7%A5%9A%E5%BA%A5+%E7%BD%97%E5%B9%B2+%E5%A7%90%E5%A4%AB&start=20&sa=N "collaborated" on the BTV incident], which has also never been verified. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+<small>([[User talk:Colipon|Talk]])</small> 22:43, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::Didn't Asdfg12345 show above that there are reputable sources discussing the case? As I see it, the sources that mention their relationship intend to highlight the fact that He Zuoxiu and Luo Gan may have well been aware of each other's actions, thoughts and plans in regards to the Falun Gong issue. This has nothing to do with an original synthesis, as long as we don't assert a causal relationship. Postulating that He Zuoxiu and Luo Gan did what they did because of their family ties is different from disclosing their intimate connection in general terms. <font color="green">'''&#10004;</font> [[User:Olaf Stephanos|Olaf Stephanos]]''' <font color="darksalmon" size="+1">[[User_talk:Olaf Stephanos|&#9997;]]</font> 22:46, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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*After reading Colipon's note, I have two concerns. One is whether this would be continuing to push an agenda that Asdfg12345 was banned for; the other is, while it may not wander into direct synthesis, of stating that their relationship influenced their behaviour in the Falungong case, doesn't it certainly imply that? And might not that aspersion be a kind of original synthesis? Those are two objections in my mind. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 03:29, 10 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::I'm not sure it's appropriate to suggest that my arguments are invalid because Colipon accuses me of pushing an agenda. Colipon himself believes Falun Gong is an illegitimate belief system, and is dedicated to giving it an unfavourable portrayal on wiki. He has done so for as long as he has edited the pages. He is unapologetically opposed to Falun Gong, in both his speech and editing. So I think the various claims should be assessed on their own merits, and not be implicated in these ad-hominem struggles. I mentioned that fact about Colipon because newcomers to this may not realise that he is not a neutral knight in shining armor, but a partisan editor with a clear agenda. I say no more on this. Aside from the agenda claims, the only issue is whether including this would be a kind of original synthesis. I do not see how. Homunculus, you are right that including the information certainly ''implies'' that they were aware of each other's conduct. But that is precisely what the sources do, with Porter even stating that more directly. We are not ''saying'' that here. If we said it, it would be OR. Just mentioning it, as it has been shown several sources do, is quite legitimate. This is just narrating the debate more or less as the literature has done. It is clearly part of one narrative of the lead-up to the persecution. And forgive my skepticism with Colipon's appeals to Chinese media. I feel confident that if he had found Chinese Falun Gong websites trumpeting that claim, his argument would have been that I only want it included because it's part of the "Falun Gong line." Since Chinese Falun Gong websites don't mention it explicitly, the argument is instead that it's probably not true. The point is that mentioning their connection is different from making some claim about that. --<font style="bold">[[User:Asdfg12345|'''Asdfg''']]</font><font color="black" style="bold">[[User_talk:Asdfg12345|'''12345''']]</font> 06:39, 13 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::I can see the difference you are making between directly stating something and allowing an implication to stand, as it does in reliable sources. It seems logical. If that is a legitimate interpretation of policy, then I don't see a problem with the inclusion. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 14:50, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Could Colipon also explain why he changed 'symbolic violence' (an accurate term and the one used by the source), and removed the BTV-propaganda remark? There was a good source for that. I am interested to know. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 15:37, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::'Symbolic violence' sounds like a new-fangled term popular among academicians. The point is that these groups were attacked/criticized in the media. Colipon's change gets that across fine. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 06:48, 8 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Suspected [[WP:NPOV]] violations? ==<br />
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The last edit of section "5.2 Controversies" ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falun_Gong&curid=55174&diff=358711563&oldid=358705349| diff here]) by [[User:Mangosour|Mangosour]]([[User_talk:Mangosour|Talk]]) appears--at least to me--to completely change the meaning of a couple of paragraphs. The change is significant enough that it seems likely the cited refs are no longer applicable. This seems to be a hot/controversial topic and, while I sure as heck don't want to run afoul of [[WP:3RR]] in my travels, neither am I willing to let POV-pushing or spin doctoring go unchallenged. I'm pretty sure, though, there is another editor or admin that will help me look at it. Thank you! <small>[[User:UncleBubba|UncleBubba]] ([[User talk:UncleBubba|Talk]]) </small> 20:45, 27 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Yes, obviously a troll. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 00:22, 28 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::I have added about five references to substantiate the point that the cult label is not part of mainstream scholarship. There are many more, I am sure. This is not a controversial point. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 10:29, 29 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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This article still does not express total neutrality. There is pro-Falun Gong bias and not enough attention to the opposite point of view. [[Special:Contributions/97.65.1.140|97.65.1.140]] ([[User talk:97.65.1.140|talk]]) 09:18, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::Points of view should be presented in proportion to their representation in the most reliable sources. In light of this, are you able to substantiate your argument? What should there be more of? [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 00:18, 11 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== "Response to these appeals has been mixed." ==<br />
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I have previously edited the above statement in "response outside China" to include what was stated in the citations. To me this statement alone is ambiguous and lacks the detail that this article should contain. It was reverted once by [[User:UncleBubba]] that :"''The uncited additions really seem to violate WP:NPOV. Disagree? Let's discuss on Talk page.)''" My response was: "''It's not uncited and not againt NPO, it's precisely what is stated in the references following this statement.''" It has now been reverted by another user ([[User:Mrund]]) without any explanations. Can someone please explain why was this edit was continuously reverted? [[User:Sjschen|Sjschen]] ([[User talk:Sjschen|talk]]) 19:17, 7 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I think "response has been mixed" is better, because it summarises both types of reception to Falungong activities. I think elaboration on how the Falungong and its practitioners' activities are received and interpreted would be good, but not in a crude way - either totally praising or condemning them. A group like this is bound to attract a range of responses. I think that should be represented with some awareness of the complexity of all the views, what is behind them, who holds them, etc. Adam Frank and Richard Madsen have written about that. <p>The bit you inserted was the opinion of a theatre critic in the Daily Telegraph, about one of the performances hosted by Falungong (right?). That doesn't mean that Falungong's activities are generally seen as propagandistic, or that that point of view should not be broadly summarised. Mainly it sounds like more of a label to me, which begs an explanation. I think we would be better with a more sophisticated appraisal that explains the whys and wherefores, and delivers value to the reader, rather than giving them a convenient 'box' in which to place the subject. That would be my approach, to this and other subjects. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 06:44, 8 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Agree. —'''<font color="darkred">Zujine</font>|[[User talk:Zujine|talk]]''' 11:33, 11 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:While what I have summarized from the cited articles is decidedly short, I would not say that it's "crude", or much less an attempt at labeling. To be fair, most of this article effectively "boxes" Falungong as being a solely religious organization under the persecution of the PROC, when it is much more than just that. Though I definitely agree that my addition "...would be better with a more sophisticated appraisal that explains the whys and wherefores, and delivers value to the reader...", the same statement could be easily applied to the original pithy summary of the criticisms ("''Response to these appeals has been mixed.''"). A fuller extent of the organization's activities outside of China and the response to it (be it positive or negative) needs to be plainly stated from the sources without the editors' zealous filtering. [[User:Sjschen|Sjschen]] ([[User talk:Sjschen|talk]]) 21:23, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::There is already a good discussion of Falungong practitioners' activities outside China, including how those activities and strategies have been interpreted. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 06:06, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Hello there. I am the original writer of statement "Response to these appeals has been mixed." Although I do agree that this area of contention should be further expanded, I do not agree with your edit to "Falun Gong events have have been noted by some as been laden with propaganda or politically motivated." I am not going to agree or disagree with the general premise, but I intentionally made the statement to be as moderate as possible. Your statement without further expansion is incendiary and would have been the target of vehement pro-FLG edits. [[User:Hmm...|Hmm...]] ([[User talk:Hmm...|talk]]) 23:38, 21 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== laughably skewed article ==<br />
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Totally fails to mention that Western academics have repeatedly referred to Falun Gong as a cult; simply reading the titles of works on the subject of Falun Gong in the citations section reveals this fact. Why do they call it a cult? Because Falun Gong is a dictionary definition cult, whether you like it or not. You know an article is skewed when it actually makes you sympathize with the government of communist china. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.5.129.24|86.5.129.24]] ([[User talk:86.5.129.24|talk]]) 20:35, 14 May 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><br />
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I don't get it: why does the article make you sympathise with the government of communist china? --<font style="bold">[[User:Asdfg12345|'''Asdfg''']]</font><font color="black" style="bold">[[User_talk:Asdfg12345|'''12345''']]</font> 13:13, 14 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Perhaps you could list which Western academics you refer to? I understood that this was a 'fringe theory' (as previously argued by Asdfg12345). There was a list somewhere, but I don't have the time to pursue that now. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 06:06, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::"You know an article is skewed when it actually makes you sympathize with the government of communist china.", marvelous, I might save that quote. Yes, better to give specific sources as examples. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 14:12, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::This from the BBC in 1998 doesn't look very fringe [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/330367.stm "World: Asia-Pacific Falun Gong: A new cult emerges"] <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 14:50, 3 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::There is no "dictionary definition of cult" and that's the whole point. See any good dictionary gives you at least 3 totally different definitions of a cult ranging from ritual practices to a group with theist beliefs that aren't mainstream to an authoritarian and exploitative organization resorting to violence and forced labor. If you just say "cult" and then back it up with references of scholars that also used the term cult, then that's no good cause those scholars might have simply meant "a group with theist beliefs that aren't mainstream". So instead you should always use clear terms. Of course the Communist Party uses the term and means it in an extremely derogatory way. But it's made clear in the article that they mean it in such a derogatory way. Whereas in your BBC article for example it's not clear at all which of the definitions is meant and it's not even necessarily meant in a derogatory way at all. Actually the only time the BBC article says something negative about Falung Gong is when it quotes the Communist Party. --[[User:Hoerth|Hoerth]] ([[User talk:Hoerth|talk]]) 22:11, 7 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::Hoerth identifies the issue properly here. It should be obvious that a BBC article soon after the Zhongnanhai demonstration, mostly quoting official sources, is not nearly as authoritative as a decade of scholarship. [[User:Homunculus|Homunculus]] ([[User talk:Homunculus|duihua]]) 00:07, 11 June 2010 (UTC)</div>Hmm...