Wikipedia - User contributions [en]

PaintShop Pro

2008-06-22T12:24:15Z

Recursion see recursion: Added category "Photo software" - this is a major product positioning focus for Corel on the PSP site

{{Unreferenced|date=September 2007}}
{{Infobox Software
| name = Paint Shop Pro
| screenshot = [[Image:Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo X2.png|250px]]
| caption = Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo X2 in [[Windows Vista]]
| developer = [[Corel]]
| latest_release_version = 12
| latest_release_date = {{release date and age|2007|09|05}}
| operating_system = [[Microsoft Windows]]
| genre = [[Raster graphics editor]] / [[Vector graphics editor]]
| license = [[Proprietary software|Proprietary]] [[EULA]]
| website = [http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=CorelCom/Layout&c=Product_C1&cid=1152105040688&lc=en www.corel.com]
}}
'''Paint Shop Pro''' ('''PSP''') is a [[raster graphics editor]] and, later in the series, a [[vector graphics editor]] for computers running the [[Microsoft Windows]] [[operating system]] that was originally published by [[Minneapolis]]-based [[Jasc Software]]. In October 2004, [[Corel|Corel Corporation]] purchased Jasc Software and the distribution rights to Paint Shop Pro. Paint Shop Pro supports natively both [[Raster graphics|raster]] and [[vector graphics]]. PSP functionality can be extended by [[Photoshop plugins|Photoshop-compatible plugins]]. They are listed in the 'Effects' menu, below the built-in effects.

==History==

Originally called simply '''Paint Shop''', the first version, 1.0, was released in early 1992. Paint Shop was originally distributed as [[shareware]] and is still available at many download sites (4.12 being a popular version). Newer versions are only available commercially. A key competitor is [[Adobe Photoshop]], the commercial market leader in this category. Photoshop’s popularity is in part because Photoshop is available in an [[Apple Computer|Apple]] [[Apple Macintosh|Macintosh]] version, the platform widely used in the print publication industry, whereas Paint Shop Pro only runs on Microsoft platforms. While Photoshop is a popular piece of editing software, PSP is also widely used due to the lower price, and it was frequently called the "poor man's Photoshop." Corel announced, on [[November 28]], [[2007]], that the office that created Paint Shop Pro would be shut down with development moved to offices in California and China. <ref>[http://www.startribune.com/business/11902066.html Corel to close Eden Prairie office]</ref>

==Version history==
[[Image:PSP100.png|thumb|The first version of Paint Shop Pro was released in 1992.]]
''Italicized entries indicate the closest date available. In these cases, the date is that of the earliest file date available on JASC or Corel's FTP site. It can be assumed that the official release fell on or before that date. For non-italicized entries, the dates are taken from official press releases or notifications posted on JASC's web site.''

* ''1990 — beta? - based on screenshot''
* ''1992 — 1.0 - based on screenshot''
* 1992 - 1.02a
* [[1993]] [[August 13]] - 2.00
:Verson 2 introduced the floating toolbar.
* [[1995]] [[August 14]] — 3.11
* [[1996]] [[January 2]] — 3.12
* [[1996]] [[July 1]] — 4.00
:This was the first 32-bit release (for Windows 95 and NT 4.0). Version 3.12 was still available for download for quite some time afterwards (and can still be found <ref>http://www.pagetutor.com/downloads/psp312-32.zip</ref>).
* [[1996]] [[September 3]] — 4.10
* [[1997]] [[January 10]] — 4.12
* [[1997]] [[October 13]] — 4.14
* [[1998]] [[April 28]] — 4.15
* 1999 April — 4.15 SE
:Special edition for PC Advisor Magazine free cover disk "Licensed version- do not distribute"
* [[1998]] [[April 6]] — 5.00
:This release introduced major user interface changes, including support for layers.
* [[1998]] [[June 15]] — 5.01
* [[1999]] [[May 10]] — 5.03
* [[1999]] [[September 13]] — 6.00
:This release introduced support for vector graphics.
* [[1999]] [[December 15]] — 6.01
* [[2000]] [[February 7]] — 6.02
* [[2000]] [[September 21]] — 7.00
* ''[[2001]] [[February 11]] — 7.01''
* ''[[2001]] [[March 5]] — 7.02''
* ''[[2001]] [[August 22]] — 7.04''
:This coincided with the release of the "Anniversary Edition" of Paint Shop Pro 7. Presumably, this means the first release of Paint Shop Pro was on [[August 22]], [[1991]].
* ''[[2002]] [[June 2]] — 7.05''
:It's not clear whether or not this was an official release. Several downloads with this version number were available, but all web site content refers to 7.04 as the last update.
* ''[[2003]] [[April 28]] — 8.00''
:New UI, ability to control most elements of PSP via Python scripts or macros. New filters, One Step Photo Fix, Learning Center. New brush engine.
* ''[[2003]] [[June 17]] — 8.01''
* ''[[2003]] [[October 7]] — 8.10''
:The last version to support [[Windows 95]]
* ''[[2004]] [[August 18]] — 9.00''
:History Palette, natural media brushes, limited Camera RAW support, Fill Flash and Backlight filters.
* ''[[2004]] [[September 21]] — 9.01''
:The last version to support [[Windows 98]]/[[Windows ME|ME]]
* ''[[2005]] [[September 8]] — 10.00''
:Fully rebranded as "Corel Paint Shop Pro X"
:Revamped Learning Center that helps new users to get started, Makeover Tools (Blemish Remover, Toothbrush/whitener, and Suntan Brush), IR film simulator, and a Black and White film converter that includes color filter effects, partial 48-bit (16bits per channel) color support. Image browser palette, Smart Photo Fix, Object Remover.
:The last release was 10.10 and the last patch was 10.03 [http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=CorelCom%2FLayout&cid=1153321224268&c=Content_C1&lc=en&pid=1152796551300]
* [[2006]] [[September 12]] — 11.00
:Fully rebranded as "Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo XI"
* ''[[2006]] [[December 18]] — 11.11''
:Bug fixes, including improvements in the appearance of Camera Raw images (and support for two new camera models) plus a performance increase of the organizer, new 'One-step photo fixes'.
* [[2007]] [[February 16]] — 11.20
:The last version to support [[Windows 2000]]
* ''[[2007]] [[September 5]] — 12.00''
:Comes with the "Graphite" workspace theme. Layer styles have been added, although these have been criticised by people as too basic.

==Criticisms==
===Pricing policy===
There have been criticisms of Corel's pricing policy that pitches international versions at significantly higher prices than those charged in the US.<ref>[http://dpnow.com/4320.html Features - Critical Focus: Software pricing - it's an international rip-off - Digital Photography Now]</ref>

===Unreliability and instability===
Version XI, in its launch version of 11.00, was criticized for the number of bugs and also for the 'Organizer' function's high CPU usage. Some of the issues were addressed in the patch to version 11.11 but the Organizer continued to attract criticism. It remains problematic when working with large picture collections. The 'Organizer' issue has been fixed in version 11.20.

===Spyware allegations===
Versions XI and X2 install a third party program named PSIService.exe, listed under [[Windows service]]s as ProtexisLicensing. Written by [[Protexis]], this runs in the background and collects licensing information. This program communicates with a remote host{{Fact|date=December 2007}} and is described in some posts as spyware.{{who}} The Corel [[Software license agreement|EULA]] does not reveal that installation of Version XI or X2 will result in the installation and continued background execution of this non-Corel program. Uninstalling XI will not uninstall PSIService.exe; and upon manually disabling the Protexis Licensing service, Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo will cease functioning, stating "This copy of Paint Shop Pro has been damaged or illegally modified. Please reinstall from your original source."

===Limited color depth support===
The latest version X2 still has an incomplete implementation of 48-bit color. This color depth is limited to a handful of digital image correcting features, but not full-blown photo editing, where the real benefit can be realized. Updating X2 to version 12.01 will provide full color depth support.

==See also==
*[[Raster graphics editor]]
*[[Comparison of raster graphics editors]]

==References==
<references/>

==External links==
* [http://www.corel.com/paintshoppro Official site]

[[Category:Corel software]]
[[Category:Raster graphics editors]]
[[Category:Vector graphics editors]]
[[Category:Technical communication tools]]
[[Category:Photo software]]

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[[hu:Corel Paint Shop Pro]]
[[nl:Corel Paint Shop Pro]]
[[ja:Paint Shop Pro]]
[[pl:Paint Shop Pro]]
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[[zh:Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo]]

Bibble (software)

2008-06-22T12:15:06Z

Recursion see recursion: Emphasised RAW format and task-efficiency in the overview - based on manufacturers (credible) product positioning

{{Infobox Software
| name = Bibble

| developer = [[Bibble Labs]]
| latest_release_version = 4.10
| latest_release_date = {{release date|2008|5|9}}
| operating_system = [[Microsoft Windows|Windows]], [[Mac OS X]] and [[Linux]]
| genre = Photo Post-Production
| license = [[Proprietary software|Proprietary]]
| website = [http://bibblelabs.com/index.html www.bibblelabs.com]
}}

'''Bibble''' is a [[software program]] for multiple platforms by Bibble Labs, designed to assist [[photographer]]s in post-production work and efficient optimization of images created in the [[RAW image format]].

The software exists in Lite and Pro versions, the latter having extra features designed for professional users.

The development of Bibble 5.0 was announced on September 22, 2006,<ref>{{cite web|url=http://bibblelabs.com/press/pr20060922.html
|accessdate=2008-05-10
|title=Bibble Labs Releases Version 4.9 Upgrade, Including Clone & Healing Tool, Sensor Correction and 5-Star Ratings
|date=2006-09-22
}}</ref> and is slated to be released sometime 2008.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://bibblelabs.com/press/pr20080509.html
|accessdate=2008-05-16
|title=Bibble Labs: Latest Press Release
|date=2008-05-09
}}</ref>

== Features ==
* [[RAW image format|RAW]] conversion.
* Post-processing of RAW and JPEG images; e.g. [[white balance]] setting, exposure, contrast, fill-light, etc.
* Plug-in architecture.
* [[Color management]], courtesy of [http://graphics1.kodak.com/global/product/value_in_print/colorflow/default.htm Kodak ColorFlow].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06021701kodakbibble.asp
|date=2006-02-24
|title=Kodak and Bibble Announce Technology Agreement
|accessdate=2008-05-10
|location=Orlando
}}</ref>
* [[Noise reduction]], courtesy of [http://www.picturecode.com/index.htm Picturecode Noise Ninja].<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06021705bibblenoiseninja.asp
|accessdate=2008-05-10
|title=Bibble Pro to include Noise Ninja NR: Digital Photography Review
|date=2002-02-17
}}</ref>
* [[Shadow and highlight enhancement]], courtesy of [http://www.athentech.com/set_main.html Athentech Perfectly Clear].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.athentech.com/pdf_files/bibble.pdf|title=Athentech licenses Perfectly Clear to Bibble|accessdate=2008-05-10|date=2006-04-07}}</ref>

== See also ==
*[[Adobe Bridge]]
*[[Adobe Photoshop Lightroom]]
*[[BlueMarine]]
*[[LightZone]]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Raster graphics editors]]
[[Category:Photo software]]
[[Category:Image organizers]]

[[fr:Bibble]]

Bibble (software)

2008-06-22T12:07:34Z

Recursion see recursion:

{{Infobox Software
| name = Bibble

| developer = [[Bibble Labs]]
| latest_release_version = 4.10
| latest_release_date = {{release date|2008|5|9}}
| operating_system = [[Microsoft Windows|Windows]], [[Mac OS X]] and [[Linux]]
| genre = Photo Post-Production
| license = [[Proprietary software|Proprietary]]
| website = [http://bibblelabs.com/index.html www.bibblelabs.com]
}}

'''Bibble''' is a [[software program]] for multiple platforms by Bibble Labs, designed to assist [[photographer]]s in post-production work. The software exists in Lite and Pro versions, the latter having extra features designed for professional users.

The development of Bibble 5.0 was announced on September 22, 2006,<ref>{{cite web|url=http://bibblelabs.com/press/pr20060922.html
|accessdate=2008-05-10
|title=Bibble Labs Releases Version 4.9 Upgrade, Including Clone & Healing Tool, Sensor Correction and 5-Star Ratings
|date=2006-09-22
}}</ref> and is slated to be released sometime 2008.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://bibblelabs.com/press/pr20080509.html
|accessdate=2008-05-16
|title=Bibble Labs: Latest Press Release
|date=2008-05-09
}}</ref>

== Features ==
* [[RAW image format|RAW]] conversion.
* Post-processing of RAW and JPEG images; e.g. [[white balance]] setting, exposure, contrast, fill-light, etc.
* Plug-in architecture.
* [[Color management]], courtesy of [http://graphics1.kodak.com/global/product/value_in_print/colorflow/default.htm Kodak ColorFlow].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06021701kodakbibble.asp
|date=2006-02-24
|title=Kodak and Bibble Announce Technology Agreement
|accessdate=2008-05-10
|location=Orlando
}}</ref>
* [[Noise reduction]], courtesy of [http://www.picturecode.com/index.htm Picturecode Noise Ninja].<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06021705bibblenoiseninja.asp
|accessdate=2008-05-10
|title=Bibble Pro to include Noise Ninja NR: Digital Photography Review
|date=2002-02-17
}}</ref>
* [[Shadow and highlight enhancement]], courtesy of [http://www.athentech.com/set_main.html Athentech Perfectly Clear].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.athentech.com/pdf_files/bibble.pdf|title=Athentech licenses Perfectly Clear to Bibble|accessdate=2008-05-10|date=2006-04-07}}</ref>

== See also ==
*[[Adobe Bridge]]
*[[Adobe Photoshop Lightroom]]
*[[BlueMarine]]
*[[LightZone]]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Raster graphics editors]]
[[Category:Photo software]]
[[Category:Image organizers]]

[[fr:Bibble]]

Talk:Social network analysis

2007-03-29T11:06:18Z

Recursion see recursion:

{{WikiProject Sociology|class=Start|importance=High}}

{{down. --[[User:Goodoldpolonius|Goodoldpolonius]] 06:09, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
----

Can this be expanded, or should it go to Wiktionary? [[User:Wetman|Wetman]] 12:00, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)

== Terminology ==

The section "Quantities in Social Network Analysis" is very poorly written. It would be nice if somebody knowledgable in the topic could rewrite it in a more comprehensible way.

== Dunbar's 150 rule ==

Disregarding the fact that I don't have access to the paper itsel;f, I think Wikipedia will do a better service to its users if it links directly to Dunbar's findings relating the "150 rule". I also suggest that it's name to be attached to the number, instead of it be presented as a 'magic' number on the current page.

FYI, the ref to the original article by dumbar is:

R.I.M Dunbar, "Neocortex size as a constraint on group size in primates," Journal of Human Evolution (1992), vol. 20, pp. 469-493. —The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/200.225.194.49|200.225.194.49]] ([[User talk:200.225.194.49|talk]]) 08:22, 29 July 2004.

* That paper's [http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/dunbar.html here], but it's a preprint - I don't know if anything altered in the final publication, but the tables are screwed up in this one. Still, it gets the gist... [[User:Shimgray|Shimgray]] 18:09, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

: Heh, I thought the same thing, and without taking a look at the talk page, blithely added the link as a parenthetical reference. I can't believe this has languished for over two years without getting linked! Be '''[[WP:BOLD|bold]]'''! I also thought about blindly linking it like [[Dunbar's number|150 people]], but I thought it would be better to cite the *name* in the text. The only downside is that, indeed, it is parenthetical -- and there are already two other parenthetical sections in that paragraph. If anyone else can think of a way to work it into the text in a more fluid fashion, please boldly do so. [[User:Matt B.|Matt B.]] 07:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Image==
I am happy that someone wants to create a new social network image (I did the current one in MS Paint). It is important that any new picture show not just nodes, but also the links or ties that connect them, since those are both mentioned prominently in the article and are also key to any sort of social network analysis or analysis of social capital. Any diagram should be able to illustrate centrality, closed and open groups, social holes, and social bridges/brokers. Feel free to make the one I put together nicer, but I don't think that we should use a version that has no ties at all.
--[[User:Goodoldpolonius2|Goodoldpolonius2]] 05:01, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
:How about [[:uk:Зображення:Social network.svg]]? --[[User:VictorAnyakin|VictorAnyakin]] 07:05, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

== External links ==

I propose that '''all''' the external links on the "Examples of Internet social networking systems, otherwise known as YASNS" section be completely removed. It's a linkspam magnet. Either the site is relevant enough to merit its own Wikipedia article (and we should link to the article instead of the site), or it's not (and probably linkspam). --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 01:32, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

:As a long-time contributor to (and often regulator of) this article, I agree in principle but disagree in practice. Without the YASNS links, people put linkspam directly in the article, now, at least, it is limited to that section. People add linkspam several times a day, which would make the administrative load too high for this article if there wasn't a place for people to put it. --[[User:Goodoldpolonius2|Goodoldpolonius2]] 02:07, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

::'''WEAK AGREE''' I too prefer that the page not be used for advertising purposes, but I also agree that it's much more manageable with all of the external links in one somewhat-maintainable spot. That said, I would prefer that the link descriptions were less... advertise-y. In particular, I've removed a couple of choice phrases like "and more!", etc. --[[User:Alan_Au|Alan Au]] 02:06, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

:::I propose that external links be limited to a one-sentence description. Comments? --[[User:Alan Au|Alan Au]] 22:39, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

::::Again, I agree, but how would we enforce it? If you are willing to, great, otherwise I think we will have to keep editing all the time, which isn't worth it. --[[User:Goodoldpolonius2|Goodoldpolonius2]] 23:12, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

:I propose to limit the list to one link to [http://socialsoftware.weblogsinc.com/sns-meta-list/ The SNS Meta List], they are doing a much better job of collecting the YASNS links.

::A good idea, but I agree with CesarB that it's better to have an inclusive (but maintainable) policy so that people are less likely to put external links into the article text. Also, I'm wary of giving the appearance that Wikipedia is in any way "endorsing" the SNS meta list, whether that's the intent or not. --[[User:Alan Au|Alan Au]] 18:22, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

== suggested additions ==

I just stumbled upon this article and want to suggest a couple of additions:
#"(Social) networking" is often used to describe the act of building your own social network. I don't know if an article can be written about it, but it seems that this sense of the word deserves a mention. Maybe this would just be opening up the article to "original research", but there are a number of (non-internet) institutions that are used to develop one's social network--ranging from country clubs, to cocktail parties, to formal education, and charity galas along with all that other junk you see in the "society" page of your newspaper.
#Similar analyses are being used in biology. [[Small world phenomenon]] kinda gets into it. I guess this is my field, so when I have some time and remember the issues, I'll see how this fits into this article or related articles.
[[User:AdamRetchless|AdamRetchless]] 03:01, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
:Tentatively, I would avoid adding anything unless it can be externally supported. That said, it might be worthwhile checking around to find literature on "informal" networking. (http://www.asis.org) --[[User:Alan Au|Alan Au]] 20:20, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

== Object-centered Sociality ==

Valuable criticism: http://www.zengestrom.com/blog/2005/04/why_some_social.html

Basically, he says that point-and-spoke models of relationships don't work, if the relationships all have different objects. The failing of the social network software is that it fails to account for the objects: they focus almost entirely on the people.

This article, too, seems to focus mostly on the people and their relationships, but not on their objects. The relationship is frequently named explicitly, but that does not make a social network.

That is, it does not make sense to say that I share a Social Network with a friend of my friend who I don't know. Instead, I share a social network with the people in my part of my company, because we all interact with one another. But I do not share a social network with one of the other employees' children.

I am explaining an idea here, and I don't know if it makes sense to put this idea in the article just on the merit of my bringing it up here. But [http://www.embl.org/aboutus/sciencesociety/conferences/2004/session4/karin_knorr_cetina.html Karin Knorr Cetina] is a sociology, and she has described this theory in great detail. She is a professor of sociology writing about these kinds of ideas. That implies to me that this warrents inclusion in the article.

I myself learned this idea from [http://www.zengestrom.com/blog/2005/04/why_some_social.html The Case for Object-Centered Sociality.]

[[User:LionKimbro|LionKimbro]]

:I think some of the confusion here is the difference between social networking as a catagory of software (like LinkedIn) and social network theory more broadly. Social network software may suffer some of the flaws discussed -- it arbitrarily creates "networks" by linking people together, but these are not social networks in a sociological sense. Social network theory is based on mapping relationships between individuals and groups as they actually exist, and plays a prominent role in a lot of sociological research about knowledge diffusion, power in organizations, and learning. Social network theory is capable of making distinctions between those who share networks for work or a project, and those who do so purely for social reasons -- it is not just "hub and spoke." Actor-network theory and related approaches are actually subfields within the broader social network world. --[[User:Goodoldpolonius2|Goodoldpolonius2]] 06:43, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

== CASOS (Carnegie Mellon) ==

I moved the inline references to the CMU CASOS site and project over to the "External links" section. While the CMU program seems like a great resource, I'm not convinced (based on the link description) that it is sufficiently fundamental to understanding social network theory that it would warrant special mention in the article text. In particular, my understanding is that Wikipedia tends to shy away from discussion of ongoing research. That said, please feel free to re-integrate the text into the main article, but a more thorough explanation of the significance would be greatly appreciated. --[[User:Alan Au|Alan Au]] 08:50, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

==sixdegrees.com==

I'm not sure how important this is, but in the section entitled "Internet social networks" there is no mention of the site sixdegrees.com. Am I the only one who remembers it? It probably wasn't the first "social networking" site, but it was around in the early days. -- Allen U
*I'm not sure what we want to do about it, since the [[SixDegrees.com]] site is no longer live. There's already a wikilink to the [[Six_degrees_of_separation]] page, although I have no problem if you wanted to add a mention (and wikilink) into the "Internet social networks" area of the article. --[[User:Alan Au|Alan Au]] 17:55, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

== MySpace and News Corporation ==

I think it would be informative to mention the acquisition of [[Intermix Media]], the parent company of [[MySpace]], by [[Rupert Murdoch]]'s [[News Corporation]] in September 2005 for $580 million. This would best be inserted after the mention of [[Google]] and [[Yahoo!|Yahoo]] entering the social networking space, as another example of a major corporation (in this case, one of the world's largest "old media" empires) making a major financial investment in an online social networking business. One could argue this was a watershed event as the first successful "exit" of a venture capital investment in the online social networking business. I didn't add any text to the article myself because I work for Intermix and don't want to upset the NPOV. [[User:Antonej|Antonej]] 03:13, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
*Please keep in mind that this article is primarily for information about social network theory, not about commercial social networking services. --[[User:Alan Au|Alan Au]] 21:08, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

The article seemed to imply that Friendster was still the most popular social networking site, which is no longer true; MySpace is way out in front. I'm adding this fact because it's the info I came here to find out, not because I'm affiliated with Rupert Murdoch's evil empire. Factual info from http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jul2005/tc20050719_5427_tc119.htm [[User:64.122.41.167|64.122.41.167]] 17:40, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

== [[Global brain]]: Social Network Analysis ==
'''From Library Journal''' 
Dunbar (psychology, [[University of Liverpool]]) has written a provocative book about the sociology of language use. 
He begins with a discussion of [[primate behavior]], [[physiology]], and [[Darwinian evolution]].
* [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0674363361/qid%3D1014774953/sr%3D1-1/celebritywizard/ Amazon:] ''Grooming, Gossip and the Evolution of Language''
 [[User:RJBurkhart|RJBurkhart]] 12:50, 2 January 2006 (UTC) 

== External links ==

This is the external links section as of today. I think we have passed the [[WP:SPAMHOLE|spam event horizon]] here. Per [[WP:EL]], we should link to:
* sources
* leading authorities

Many of these links seem to be to social networks, not sites ''about'' social networking. Can we review them individually, please? Remembering that we should only link to sites which are ''about'' social networking and which are either sources or provide a level of detail excessive for a WP article. [[WP:NOT]] a link farm! [[User Talk:JzG|Just zis Guy you know?]] 16:50, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

*[http://www.DateApp.com/ DateApp Social Networking Program] Build a synergistic community of social networks
*[http://www.insna.org/ INSNA] The International Network for Social Network Analysis with links to journals available online
*[http://www.insna.org/INSNA/socnet.html SOCNET] ''The'' listserver for SNA.
*[http://www.casos.cs.cmu.edu/index.html CASOS] Dynamic Social Network Analysis being conducted at [[Carnegie Mellon University]] with datasets available
*[http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/netgov/html/sna.htm Social Network Analysis resources] subpage of the [http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/netgov Program on Networked Governance] at [[Harvard University]] by Ines Mergel
*[http://www.iq.harvard.edu/blog/netgov/index.html Complexity and Social Networks Blog] covering a wide variety of SN topics at [[Harvard University]]
*[http://www.gatedonlinecommunities.com Gated Online Communities Link and Info Page]
*[http://tidbit.wildbit.com/2005/07/social_networks.html Online Social Networking Research Report] - A comparative analysis by Wildbit of the most popular online social networks with suggestions on creating and growing web communities.
*[http://www.dau.mil/pubs/dam/03_04_2005/war-ma05.pdf Knock, Knock, Knocking on Newton's Door] - article published in [[Defense Acquisition University]]'s journal ''Defense AT&L'', based largely on ''[[Six Degrees (disambiguation)|Six Degrees]]'' by [[Columbia University#See also|Duncan Watts]]. Explores theory and practice of social networking, as related to military technology development.
*[http://www.orgnet.com/sna.html How to Do Social Network Analysis] Vladis Kreb's page
*[http://www.analytictech.com/networks/topics.htm Concepts of Social Network Analysis]
*[http://radio.weblogs.com/0107127/stories/2003/01/01/robinDunbarAndTheMagicNumberOf150.html Robin Dunbar and the Magic Number of 150]
* [http://www.druid.dk/wp/pdf_files/02-07.pdf The Academic Robotics Community in the UK:] Web based data construction and analysis of a '''distributed''' [[community of practice]]. This community's '''[[knowledge management]]''' social networks are built entirely from web-based resources such as web pages, electronic CVs and bibliographic search engines
* [http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue8_8/jordan/ The Augmented Social Network:] ''[[Building Identity and Trust into the Next-Generation Internet]]'' by Ken Jordan, Jan Hauser, and Steven Foster
* [http://journal.planetwork.net/article.php?lab=reed0704&page=1 The Social Web: Building an Open Social Network with XDI] by members of the [http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/xdi OASIS XDI Technical Committee]7
*[http://www.analytictech.com/ucinet.htm UCINET - Software package for social network analysis]
*[http://vlado.fmf.uni-lj.si/pub/networks/pajek/ Pajek - Program for Large Network Analyis]
*[http://vlado.fmf.uni-lj.si/pub/networks/data Vlado's collection of datasets]
*[http://www.jibble.org/piespy/ PieSpy] - Social Network [[IRC bot|Bot]] Inferring and Visualizing Social Networks on [[Internet Relay Chat|IRC]]

== Niche topics, e.g. GolfBuzz ==

I don't have a problem with any specific internet social networking service (e.g. GolfBuzz), but I'm concerned that once we start singling out particular services, we get into a problem of trying to decide who to include and exclude. At one point I blanket-removed all of the inline (external) links to prevent this problem. Partly, I'm not sure this is the correct article to be providing examples of commercial services, since this article is supposed to be the umbrella article about social network theory. Anyhow, I just wanted to express my thoughts on the matter. --[[User:Alan Au|Alan Au]] 18:01, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:I agree in principle but I do not see why singling out examples to illustrate points is a bad practice. Especially when it seems that social networking is tending towards niche sites that tailor specifically to peoples interstests and passions. In the article we single out the pioneers and social networking leaders such as Facebook, MySpace, LinkedIn, etc. I do not see there being a problem highlighting the new niche sites that leading the change (dogster, Joga, or sisiterwoman) to illustrate a point. They are the next evolution and probably just as note worthy. How many of the companies above have been able to attract a partner such as Apple computer as is the case with the new running focused social network that Nike and Apple are launching. Social networks are so mainstream that "big industry" is reacting and starting to participate. [[User:69.180.21.43|69.180.21.43]] 19:21, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
::So let's say I come along and want to add my niche website about pie-based social networks, and the next guys wants to add a link about cake-based social networks, and then someone else wants to add their site dealing with muffin-based networks, and then where do you draw the line? I was hoping that by excluding the external links, it would discourage people from adding specialized variants for commercial purposes. --[[User:Alan Au|Alan Au]] 21:41, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::I totally agree... knowing where to draw the line is difficult. I do not think it is so much excluding rather than providing examples to illustrate a point. Adding a few examples does not mean that everyone should be included. I would stipulate that the examples are early niche pioneers or extremely note-worthy examples that come in the future for example: Dogster, sisterwoman, or Nike's entries (Joga and nike +). I definitely agree with your diligence on maintaining the integrity of the wiki. I believe that is what was done with the MySpace, Friendster and LinkedIn examples in the main article. Keep up the good work! [[User:69.180.21.43|69.180.21.43]] 04:35, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

== Added mobile social networking section ==

Hi,

I'm still new to how Wikipedia works. I was kindly asked to sign my name whenever I make additions to Wiki pages. Here goes!

[[User:EmilyChew|EmilyChew]] 22:58, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
*Thanks for contributing, but the AirG links were inappropriate and the section ended up sounding too much like a product advertisement, so I took it out. --[[User:Alan Au|Alan Au]] 06:02, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

== Milroy ==

The article is a little outdated, it doesn't even mention Milroy. —The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/194.80.240.66|194.80.240.66]] ([[User talk:194.80.240.66|talk]]) 14:36, 13 December 2006 (UTC).

I have studied social networks for 40 years, and I have never heard of Milroy. [[User:Bellagio99|Bellagio99]] 15:30, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

== Split the Article ==

I wonder if this article should be split into two or three pieces. It includes both "social network analysis," a serious academic discipline that has been around since the 1950s, and "social networking software" (MySpace; LinkedIn) designed to facilitate interactions. These are only weakly related, and the current article is a linkspam magnet for start-up software companies to publicize their product.
[[User:Bellagio99|Bellagio99]] 15:30, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
:Except that vigilant reverters can turn the tide of linkspam as long as they check back to their watched pages regularly. Some of us editors feel very protective towards our favourite articles. Can I also say that there appears to be some concern that splitting articles unneccessarily will counter the good work done (towards a lean and workable Wikipedia) by article/category mergers? [[User:Refsworldlee|Refsworldlee]][[User talk:Refsworldlee|(chew-fat)]] 19:37, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

There are at least two different meanings of the term "social network." There are at least two communities that have little interaction that each use the term, but it does not mean the same thing. Each of the two communities is sufficiently large that neither can change the name, so what makes sense it to just realize that it is a homophone, where the same words have different meanings.

The older community is, I suspect, by far the smaller. It has, however, been using the term "social network" since at least the 50's, it has two dedicated journals, there have been annual conferences for 35 years, it is taught at a number of universities, there are dozens of books and hundreds of articles, some in top academic journals. No one can go back and a search and replace on something with so much history and infrastructure. The newer use of the term is so common that it cannot be changed either. They just have to learn to live with each other.

The original social networks were about describing social relations that were not just dyadic or binary. In the world we influence others and they influence us, usually on many levels at the same time. It is not just one on one. Colds, jokes and many other things travel through networks of people. Networks rapidly become complicated, and how do we know how they are organized, and how do we talk about what we see? Social network analysts are excited by the 6 degree thing because it allows to make guesses about what the human networks are like.

The newer community came from the merger of two ideas: collaborative software and networking. Collaborative software is such things as e-mail, this wiki, IM and so on. This has roots going back to Vaneever Bush's 1945 paper "The Way We May Think" where he proposed a collaborative system that inspired hyperlinks and the World Wide Web. It was followed up by Ted Nelson and Doug Engelbart and there is a long tradition of working towards better collaborative software in Silicon Valley and elsewhere. Software that mediated human interaction came to be called "social software" (the term was coined by Eric Drexler, the same person who coined the term "nanotechnology").

Meanwhile, as women increasingly joined the marketplace in the 70's and on they realize that they were running into established networks that blocked their entry. They started forming groups to mentor and help each other. This activity came to be called "networking" and by the the 1980's it was an established business idea. In 1985, for instance, the organization Business Networking International was started, which still exists and is huge. In personal communication, the CEO (Ivan Mischner) said that the US Chamber of Commerce claims to have coined the term "networking." In any event, the term "networking" meant to actively expand your networks for business purposes.

In the late 90's some folks got the idea to start businesses that did "networking" using collaborative software. Most of them thought of themselves as "business" or "professional" networking, but Jonathan Abrams wanted to network for friends and he called what people did on his site, Friendster, "social networking." The term caught on and links a person makes through using MySpace, FaceBook, LinkedIn, FriendSter and so on came to be called "social networks." In the abstract these are "social networks" in the first sense, and there have been some papers that explore this, but in the main the older one is talking about networks in general and the newer about networks that revolve around specific Web sites. It was unlikely that Johathan was familiar with the older term.

The social networks of collaborative software are wonderful, exciting technologies. Occasionally someone will comment to me that the older kind of social networks are not as important and somehow overly academic. I would hope that people can realize this is not true at all.

In the 60's the idea of interdisciplinary research was popular (it is again). At Harvard they started a program called "social relations." This program took the common aspect of social psychology, economics, sociology: social relations and made that the foreground of study. Many people who are still quite well known were there, Stanely Milgram, Mark Granovetter, Harrison White, Barry Wellman, Ivan Chase, ... (heck even BF Skinner was there, but he was in that department) - some were teachers, some students. Some of the ideas they had then and subsequently about how our social world works are still revolutionary.

But, the wikipedia needs to realize that "social networks" has at least two meanings, and that "networking" in and of itself has an interesing history. So there seems to be at least 3 separate subjects. I think that the older social network thinking has a lot to offer the newer social networks.03:38, 6 February 2007 (UTC)dsteiny

:Weak connection between the two, agreed. But they are nevertheless still relevant to each other. And I repeat my concerns about splitting a twice-splitted list which was split from X originally (for instance - that's probably not the true history of this subject, but I want to illustrate the process of repeated splitting over time). Meanwhile (he bangs on), others are worthily trying to merge content in an effort to keep Wikipedia referrable and readable. No votes here, I know, but I still disagree with splitting for no obvious and stark reason. [[User:Refsworldlee|Refsworldlee]][[User talk:Refsworldlee|(chew-fat)]][[Special:Contributions/Refsworldlee|(eds)]] 14:32, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

:The main problem is that the current wikipedia entry is nonsense. It links "social networking" to "social networks" and it is just a coincidence they have similar names. I would be like linking "trucking" in "keep on trucking" to a vehicle. If the two are in the same entry they need to at the least, be linked properly. Social networking should be linked to collaborative software and names like Engelbart, Bush; projects like the social media work at U of Ill all need to be mentioned. None of these have any relations to the way the term "social network" has been being used for over 50 years. I have personally asked Doug Engelbart about this and he has vaugely heard of it. The term "social network" in the context of humans in general needs to be linked to names like Harrison White, Mark Granovetter, Barry Wellman and so on. There is a decent list of names, but it is a completely differnt list. The number of social networks analysts that have anything to do with social software is quite small. It is too different fields with the same name, the coorelation is much worse that "weak" it is confusing and wrong. 16:08, 6 February 2007 (UTC)dsteiny

: I strongly agree with dsteiny. I would be willing to work on the split in the spring. I know more about "social network" itself than about the social network software, so I would appreciate some help on that.
[[User:Bellagio99|Bellagio99]] 18:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

== Suggestions ==

In all honesty, I have used the entry on social networks as a sampling method to decide what I
thought of wikipedia in general and it has given me a poor opinion of wikipdeida in general because of how confused and inaccurate this entry is. Rather than just complain I am able to take some time trying to help with this project. Some points: 
Social Network Analysis (SNA) has THREE roots, not just graphs and graph theory. It also
comes from sociology, as in the sociograms and theories of Morano, and psychology,
specifically Fritz Heider and balance theory. The most cited works in the field have little
or no mention of graphs at all. The graph theory portion is important because social network analysis does empirical research. Theories about the subject matter about which social network analysts are interested can be tested by real world observation. Seemingly simple questions like: "are two networks similar?" prove to be very difficult and it has taken many years of hypothesis testing to begin to answer this and related questions. However it is a ''methodology'' used by some analysts and not the essense of the field. 
One of most highly regarded and inspirational people in this field is Harrison White,
who is no lightweight in the mathematical properties of graphs. He uses them, however, to
describe situations that he uses to build a much bigger picture of emergance of organizations
and even people. It gets deep into the questions of essentialism and the Fundemental
Attribution Error from social psychology. He is not about the mathematical properties of
graphs, he is about how our social world makes us who we are. 
We need to reorganize the whole thing into two threads, I don't care how it is done. It
could be like a dictionary where there is definition 1 and definition 2 and so on. Another way might be to make an entry for social networking/social networks and one for social
networks with a brief link at the top back to the other one for people that are interested in
collaborative software. One for "networking" would be good as well. In all the literature
about "social networks" I would guess that 1% is about "networking." It is usually not discussed as part of the field of social networks. It is important and valuable, but it has its own history and purpose. 
Right now the wikipedia entries on this subject is either wrong or very weak (the
Harrison White entry is very poor and I would like to update it, I have not done this before, but it would be a service to both Harrison and the community at large, he is WAY more interesting than the entry would lead us to believe). Having entries in wikipedia that are misleading or wrong does not provide a service. It seems to me that to say "there is a weak link, but they are close enough" is just lack of information about the difference. There is virtually no link. They are both wonderful and important fields and I am deeply involved with both, but they are almost unrelated and the wikipedia entries are very confusing. I do not want to put a bunch of work into this if it is not something that would be appreciated, so I am writing this here to get some feedback.
[[User:Dsteiny|Dsteiny]] 17:28, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

== Accessibility hint ==

The text "An interactive model of this type can be found here based on rumor spreading from model on Cmol." uses "here" as a hyperlinked phrase. This is discouraged by accessibility guidelines; it is potentially confusing for screen-reader uses who will typically ask their software to read out all the links on a page as a list. A nicer hyperlink label might be "An interactive model of rumour spreading". Hypertext researchersn such as Nielsen, also argue that users exploit hyperlinked labels as eyecatchers.

[[User:Recursion see recursion|Recursion see recursion]] 11:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Kasabian

2006-10-28T22:18:23Z

Recursion see recursion: Corrected typo "muscial" => "musical"

{{Infobox_band |
band_name = [[Image:Kasabianlogo.jpg|180px]] |
image = [[Image:KasabianBand2006.png|250px]] |
years_active = [[1999]]–present |
origin = [[Leicester]] |
country = [[England]] |
status = |
music_genre = [[Alternative rock]], [[Indie rock]] |

record_label = [[Sony BMG Music Entertainment]] [[RCA Records]] |
current_members = [[Sergio Pizzorno|Serge Pizzorno]] [[Tom Meighan]] [[Christopher Edwards]] [[Ian Matthews]] |
former_members = [[Chris Karloff]] |
}}

'''Kasabian''' are a [[Rock music|rock]] band from [[Blaby]], near [[Leicester]], [[England]]. It was formed by Tom Meighan (vocals), Sergio Pizzorno (guitar and vocals), Chris Edwards (bass) and Chris Karloff (guitar and keyboards), who met while attending Leysland High School and Countesthorpe Community College. The band is named after [[Linda Kasabian]], a member of the [[Charles Manson]] cult (aka the Manson "family").

The band has been compared with the likes of [[Primal Scream]], with whom it shares an [[electronica]]-[[indie rock]] fusion, and [[Oasis (band)|Oasis]], with whom it shares confidence, swagger and rough vocal style. <ref>{{cite web|title=Lazy-I Interview|url=http://www.timmcmahan.com/kasabian.htm|accessdate=2005-05-26}}</ref>

Kasabian was a supporting act for Oasis during the latter's 2005 ''[[Don't Believe the Truth]]''-supporting tour, and has has been described as "Music made by the people for the people."

Kasabian's latest album, titled "[[Empire (Kasabian album)|Empire]]", was released in the UK on the [[28 August]] [[2006]]. During recording's Chris Karloff, one of the bands chief song writers, left the band due to musical differences and is pursuing music elsewhere. He contributed his writing skills to some of the most dominant songs on Empire ; for example, the first single released of the album; Empire, and also Shoot The Runner and By My Side.

The band recruited once temporary drummer, Ian Matthews, as a permanent member of the band.

Empire, a self-described "call to arms" the first single from the album, also called "[[Empire (song)|Empire]]", has as of July 31st hit #9 on the UK charts, based on downloads and single sales alone. The album seems to focus on the horrors of war, and the problems of waging it. The next single will be Shoot The Runner which will be released on 6 November; the video premiered on Kasabian's website on 19 September.

==Discography==
===Albums===
;''[[Kasabian (album)|Kasabian]]''
:([[September 13]] [[2004]]) <center>[[RCA Records]] ([[United Kingdom|UK]]) [[BMG]]/[[RCA]] ([[United States|US]]) <center> '''#4''' UK; #94 US
;''[[Empire (Kasabian album)|Empire]]''
:([[ August 28]], [[2006]]) <center>[[Columbia Records]] ([[United Kingdom|UK]]) '''#1''' UK

===Live Albums===
;''[[Live From Brixton Academy]]''
:([[July 4]] [[2005]]) <center>[[Arista Records]] ([[United Kingdom|UK]]) [[BMG]]/[[RCA]] ([[United States|US]]) <center> download-only

===Singles===
{| class="wikitable"
! width="28" rowspan="2"| Year
! width="257" rowspan="2"| Title
! colspan="3"| Chart Positions
! width="257" rowspan="2"| Album
|-
! width="86"| [[UK Singles Chart]]
! width="86"| [[UK Download Chart]]
! width="86"| [[US Modern Rock]]

|-
| [[2004 in music|2004]]
| "Reason Is Treason"
! -
! -
! -
| ''[[Kasabian (album)|Kasabian]]''
|-
| [[2004 in music|2004]]
| "[[Club Foot (song)|Club Foot]]"
! 19
! -
! 27
| ''[[Kasabian (album)|Kasabian]]''
|-
| [[2004 in music|2004]]
| "[[L.S.F.|L.S.F. (Lost Souls Forever)]]"
! 10
! -
! 32
| ''[[Kasabian (album)|Kasabian]]''
|-
| [[2004 in music|2004]]
| "[[Processed Beats]]"
! 17
! -
! -
| ''[[Kasabian (album)|Kasabian]]''
|-
| [[2005 in music|2005]]
| "Cutt Off"
! 8
! 18
! -
| ''[[Kasabian (album)|Kasabian]]''
|-
| [[2005 in music|2005]]
| "[[Club Foot (song)|Club Foot]] (re-issue)"
! 21
! 36
! 27
| ''[[Kasabian (album)|Kasabian]]''
|-
| [[2006 in music|2006]]
| "[[Empire (song)|Empire]]"
! 9
! 8
! -
| ''[[Empire (Kasabian album)|Empire]]''
|-
| [[2006 in music|2006]]
| "[[Shoot the Runner]]"
! -
! -
! -
| ''[[Empire (Kasabian album)|Empire]]''
|}

====Notes====
*''Re-issue of "Club Foot" / "55" featured in a racing video game called "[[Juiced]]". As did the Jack Knife Lee remix of "Reason Is Treason" in "Gran Turismo 4".

===Compilations===
*''[[Music from the OC: Mix 5]]'' ([[2005]] · Warner Bros./Wea)

==Members==
'''Line-up:'''
* '''Tom Meighan''' - [[Lead vocals]]
* '''Serge Pizzorno''' - [[Guitar]], Synths, [[Backing vocals]] & [[Lead vocals]]
* '''Christopher Edwards''' - [[Bass guitar| Bass]]
* '''Ian Matthews''' (Joined in 2005) - [[Drums]] & [[Percussion]]
* '''Jay Mehler''' (Live replacement for Chris Karloff, formerly of the band Mad Action) - [[Guitar]]

'''Past members'''
* '''Christopher Karloff''' - (2003 - July 2006) Lead Guitar, [[Bass guitar|Bass]], [[Synths]] & Omni Chord.In July 2006, songwriter and multi-instrumentalist Christopher Karloff left the band due to "artistic and creative differences" according to the band's website. <ref>{{cite web|title=Kasabian Official Website|url=http://www.kasabian.co.uk/news/236/-/24/|accessdate=2006-07-17}}</ref>

==Trivia==
* The song "Club Foot" is dedicated to [[Jan Palach]]. It is now featured in the popular football game ''[[Pro Evolution Soccer 5]]'', the racing game ''[[Midnight Club 3]]'', and also appears in the video game ''[[Marc Ecko's Getting Up: Contents Under Pressure]]''. "Club Foot" has also appeared in a trailer of the movie ''[[Serenity (film)|Serenity]]'', [[Goal! (film)|Goal!]], [[Tony Hawk's Project 8]], an episode of [[Threshold (TV series)|Threshold]] and episodes of [[Smallville]] and [[CSI:MIAMI]]. The song "[[L.S.F.]]" featured on the popular football game [[FIFA 2004]] and in the movie ''[[Stealth (film)|Stealth]]''. The song "Reason is Treason" is on the opening video of the best-selling racing simulator [[Gran Turismo 4]] and in the movie ''[[Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life]]'' (The version of "Reason is Treason" featured is a remix which can be found seven minutes and seven seconds into the final track, "U-Boat," on Kasabian's self-titled album.)
* Kasabian recorded the theme tune for [[ITV|ITV's]] coverage of the [[2006 FIFA World Cup]], a cover version of the [[David Bowie]] song [[Heroes (song)|''Heroes'']]. It was given away with the digital download of the single 'Empire'.
* [[Tom Meighan]] is notably famous for calling [[The Strokes|The Strokes']] lead singer Julian Casablancas a "posh fucking skier", the now defunct london based trio - [[Test Icicles]] as "King's Cross rent boys", [[Pete Doherty]] as "a fucking tramp" and [[The Automatic]] as "horrible" in an [[NME]] interview. Kasabian also criticised [[My Chemical Romance]] in a [[October]] interview by Bizzare in [[the Sun]] after being told the quintet were heading for No. 1 in the UK, claiming that they should "get out more" and that their lyrics were depressive and negative to youth as part of the [[emo (slang)|emo]] phenomenon.
* The single Empire was exclusively played on [[BBC Radio 1]]'s [[Zane Lowe]] show in July 2006 and immediately made available for internet download.
* They are all big supporters of [[Leicester City F.C.]] and their songs are sometimes played before matches at the [[Walkers Stadium]].
*The band is hugely supported by weekly morning show, [[Soccer AM]], and have appeared on the show many times. On the episode from [[26th August]] 2006, Serge Pizzorno scored a spectacular goal in the "Road to Wembley II" competition, which was dubbed "the best goal ever" scored on the show by host [[Helen Chamberlain]]. <ref>{{cite web|title=YouTube|url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkkKpQSnubk|accessdate=2006-08-27}}</ref>
*Sergio Pizzorno and ex-member Christopher Karloff appear on [[DJ Shadow]]'s upcoming album ''[[The Outsider (album)|The Outsider]]'' on track 12 ''The Tiger''.

==External links ==
*[http://www.kasabian.co.uk Official website]
*[http://www.myspace.com/kasabian Official MySpace profile]
*[http://www.columbia.co.uk Kasabian's UK Label Columbia Records]
*[http://www.musicomh.com/interviews/kasabian_0806.htm musicOMH.com Interview: August 2006]
*[http://musicbrainz.org/artist/69b39eab-6577-46a4-a9f5-817839092033.html Kasabian] at [http://www.MusicBrainz.org MusicBrainz.org]
*[http://www.lyricsdir.com/kasabian-lyrics.html Kasabian Lyrics]
*[http://www.jacks-lounge.com/2006/10/15/kasabian-empire-music-review/ Review of 'Empire']

==References==
<div class="references-small"><references/></div>

[[Category:2000s music groups]]
[[Category:English musical groups]]
[[Category:People from Leicester|Kasabian]]
[[Category:Leicester musical groups]]

[[ca:Kasabian]]
[[de:Kasabian]]
[[et:Kasabian]]
[[es:Kasabian]]
[[fr:Kasabian]]
[[nl:Kasabian]]
[[ja:カサビアン]]
[[no:Kasabian]]
[[pl:Kasabian]]
[[sr:Касабијан]]

Talk:Fender Stratocaster

2006-10-16T22:15:25Z

Recursion see recursion: /* Sound and playability */

{{talkpageheader}}
==error==
'''Bold text'''do not remove this ""Standard" Stratocasters are those made in Mexico but are still high quality and true Fenders. They generally retail for around $400 USD and upgrades to the 2006 model include larger block for better sustain, medium-jumbo frets, shielded pickguard and a gigbag." it is very relevant and factual.'''Bold text'''

The name "Stratocaster" was NOT intended to to recall Stradivarious. If whoever wrote this article had bothered to read nearly any book on the instrument, or any interview with Leo Fender, Bill Carson, or just about anyone else involved in its creation, they would see this is simply not the case.The fender stratocaster was invented in ..............!

instead of angrily denouncing the author for getting a fact wrong, take pride in making the article better.

==Right handed==
Jimi Hendrix played a right-handed guitar strung right-handed, but flipped upside-down.

Actually Hendrix played his strat strung normally - heavy-on-top/light-on-bottom: watch the Isle of Wight concert for a better look, or Woodstock. Freddie King played his lefty guitar strung, from his perspective, upside down. There are many discussion about why he preferred a right-handed strat. I've heard two that are plausible: being heavy-handed, he preferred the greater string tension of the top E string being stretched over a longer distance (also clearer sounds and maybe even tuning stability); the controls and vibrato arm were closer and could be adjusted before a down stroke.
Anyway, nice page and congrats to the author!

== Removing Content ==

Auto Movil, I would just like to question your most recent edit - it seemed to take a lot of the information in the article out, in favour of style and succinctness. I personally think that much of that information should be put back in. May I ask why you made these edits? [[User:Brother Dysk|Brother Dysk]] 13:56, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

== Photo ==

I think that a photo of real Fender Stratocaster should be given instead of Squier Stratocaster's, because Squier looks slightly different.

This article mentions the Stratocaster body design being based on the design of the Precision Bass - the Precision Bass article mentions its body design being based on that of the Stratocaster - should one of these articles be changed? I'm unaware of which one, otherwise I'd do it myself. .j

The stratocaster came after the precision bass, thus the stratocaster style was based on the P-bass. The information regarding this does not need to be changed in this article. [[User:Jhayes94|Jhayes94]] 21:51, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

That is actually incorrect. what happened was the p-bass was made and had one design, which was blocky. The the stratocaster came out and Fender changed the design of the p-bass to something very similar to the stratocaster.

== Can we get a confirmation on this? ==

From the article:
"Many now reside in Japan, cached away as collectible pieces of Americana.".
Is there any other information on this? Sounds like a good place to link in some history article too, perhaps the economic decisions of Japan from the '70s, which I happen to know nothing about. -- [[User:66.68.138.69|66.68.138.69]] 22:26, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
* Here is one collector in Japan who shows many vintage USA Strats at his website:
http://www.strato-crazy.com/RDStratStockListForSale.htm --[[User:Jerry picker|Jerry picker]] 17:09, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
* One thing that really fueled this notion was a book published in 1987, from Japan, featuring the collection of Akira Tsumura. Mr. Tsumura, a multimillionaire from his herbal medicine empire, collected a vast assemblage of American vintage and other guitars and stringed instruments. This book also shows other smaller Japanese collections. Here is a review of the book:
http://www.cumpiano.com/Home/Articles/Articles/tsumura.html --[[User:70.187.149.53|70.187.149.53]] 00:37, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

==Prices on 1950's Strats==

New top prices on pre-CBS Strats are occurring. Confirmation of an Ebay auction sale of a stock 1955, original owner, impeccable provenance for $76,300, is found in the Lincoln Star (Nebraska) newspaper: http://www.journalstar.com/articles/2006/01/19/top_story/doc43cedbd93a4bc713422439.txt
--
[[User:Jerry picker|Jerry picker]] 15:05, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

== Non-US Stratocasters ==

I think that more space should be devoted to the Japanese Fender phenomenon that started in the 1980s, and the various Mexican, Chinese & Korean Squiers. I'll knock something up later on. [[User:Jamesgibbon|jamesgibbon]] 11:08, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

== Notable Strat Players Photo ==

Of all the great stratocaster players, Billie Joe Armstrong is not nearly the best choice. While Green Day may be a famous, popular, and "good" band, he is not known for his technique, skill, innovation or virtuosity on guitar let alone fender stratocaster. I suggest a photo of a more deserving player.
*We already have picture of Hendrix and Clapton in the article. What more could you want? [[User:Deltabeignet|Deltabeignet]] 00:14, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, I say get a photo of David Gilmour in there. I can't think of a more famous and deserving Strat player.
* I second that
[[User:Bobhelpus|Bobhelpus]] 00:16, 13 October 2006 (EST)

Surely John Frusciante is the most relevant and influential strat player of this day and age?
* Define "this day and age". Define relevance. Define influence... [[User:Jerry picker|Jerry picker]] 14:21, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

*I think Stevie Ray Vaughan would be a good choice.

*I think Mick Mars was a terrible choice. He ain't that renouned as guitarists such as say, Hendrix or Vaughan. Also, he only recently switched from Les Pauls. Furthermore, his strat is a total freakazoid with modifications such as twin humbuckers and a Floyd Rose bridge which questions the fact that whether it has any Stratocaster vibe left at all or not. Props to the person who replaced it with SRV!

[[Billy Corgan]] from the Smashing Pumpkins! Look into it!
:No offense, but Billy Corgan (and the Smashing Pumpkins in general) is/was not known for his technique, innovation, or skill, much like BJ Armstrong. [[User:The4sword|The4sword]]

== Signature Models ==

"Fender also offers both Custom Shop and regular production Artist Series guitars, featuring replicas of the Stratocasters played by famous guitarists such as Mark Knopfler, Buddy Holly, Jimi Hendrix, Adrian Belew, etc."
I am unable to find documentation of the Buddy Holly or the Adrian Belew Signature or Artist Series Stratocaster. Also, many of the models listed are not currently being made. -- [[User:Jerry picker|Jerry picker]] 14:36, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I am likewise unable to find documentation of [[Frank Zappa]], [[Mike Rutherford]] signature or artist series Strats. [[User:Jerry picker|Jerry picker]] 15:49, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

==Maple fretboard option==
Ikkyu2 provided this source in the edit summary: [http://www.provide.net/~cfh/fender.html]. There it says the maple board was available via special order from 1960-1968. I've never known this to be the case. I have three reputable publications that say the maple board became an option in 1967 and do not mention anything about it being available via special order before then:
''The Fender Startocaster'' by A.R. Duchossoir, ''Gruhn's Guide To Vintage Guitars'' by George Gruhn and Walter Carter, and ''The Official Vintage Guitar Magazine Price Guide 2005'' by Alan Greenwood and Gil Hembree. So, I've reverted to the previous edit. If anyone can provide more sources to support the 1960-1968 claim, please do. Cheers. [[User:PJM|PJM]] 01:44, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
:I'm glad to see this, PJM, because it confirms what I thought I was looking for when I went scouring the internet to find a reference. The information in the web page I cited came as a surprise to me; what you describe comes closer to my understanding of how things were. For instance, I'm pretty sure that during the golden CBS years 1960-1965, you simply couldn't get a Strat without a rosewood board. Thanks for following up -[[User:Ikkyu2|Ikkyu2]] 22:06, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
::One can never say never when factoring in the possible VIP's custom order, but the glued-on maple board was apparently not an official option prior to 1967. Cheers. [[User:PJM|PJM]] 18:01, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

== Copyrighted shape of Stratocaster headstock? ==

"The headstock shape of the Statocaster is actually copyrighted, the reason why strat copies cannot replicate its recognizable shape exactly." How can a shape be copyrighted? It's more likely to be patented AFAIK. --[[User:Blenda Lovelace|Blenda Lovelace]] 16:24, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

The headstock shape is a registered Trademark. The list of Fender trademarks is extensive: [http://www.guitartrader.com/viewmisc.ici (partial list)]. [[User:Jerry picker|Jerry picker]] 17:23, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

==Names mentioned multiple times==
The Artist Sig list included names not currently matched with a sig model. The second "notable"(or POV) list contained names that have current "artist" models. I shuffled them around to try and match Sig vs Notable. As for the notables...several of these players are already mentioned earlier in the article. Hendrix is named numerous times throughout the article.(and if anyone is going to..he'd be the one I guess) Is it just me or is that a little overkill? Do the players that are already highlighted in the main article have to be duped in the notable list? Just a thought. [[User:Anger22|Anger22]] 02:29, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
:I think an additional mentioning in the signature model section is appropriate, but an additional mentioning in the notable section is redundant. I tried trimming it down in the past and the repeats just keep reappearing. Maybe you're the extra hand we need. [[User:PJM|PJM]] 11:41, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

::It should be easy enough to keep under control. It's on my watchlist so it pops up fairly regularly. You can clean the dupes if you wish. I haven't time right now. I don't particularly care for "notable or famous" lists in Wiki as they're are just POV magnets.(especially the music articles) But if there is some sort of agreement on keeping the list from turning into an essay...at least it won't get too cluttered. Cheers! [[User:Anger22|Anger22]] 11:47, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
:::I agree with you on the notable users section being vulnerable to POV. Should a famous player who had only been seen playing a Strat once during a trivial TV appearance be listed? Don't answer because it does not matter...he /she will be. Nonetheless, I do see the usefulness of this section, if properly maintained. Regards, [[User:PJM|PJM]] 18:24, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

== External Links ==

RE: "no forums"

:: 12. Blogs, social networking sites (such as MySpace) and forums should generally not be linked to. Although there are exceptions, such as when the article is about, or closely related to, the website itself, or if the website is of particularly high standard."

:::: The fact is that Wikipedia's Fender-based entries are far from totally reliable! Therefore, links to knowledgeable sites that can fill in the gaps is surely a good idea, and fully in keeping with the guidelines from the External Links page quoted above. The Fender Discussion Page is the biggest Fender forum, and the members of the Fender Info-Base are some of the most knowledgeable out there.

-- While I'd agree that linking to knowledgable forums is a good thing, FDP/fenderforum.com is just a bunch of old farts with too much time and money. What's worse is that the owner of the website, chris greene, is just a greedy elitist ass. These people pay $30 just so they can have "contributing money" under their name. It's like a retirement home for this guys..

== plastic ==

"The basic production model had a two-tone nitrocellulose 'sunburst' finish, an all-maple neck, ash body (1956-later alder), chrome hardware, and Bakelite-like thermoplastic parts."

Bakelite is a thermoset, therefore either the parts are not "Bakelite-like" or they are not thermoplastic; they cannot be both.

== baja?? ==

Who's the smartass who put baja california? It's ENSENADA not baja

== Create a list of strat players ==

I'm getting qutie bothered by the edit wars on this page regarding the list of notable Stratocaster players. These edits come on an almost daily basis, and are making it harder to find other content-based edits. I'd advocate creating a completely separate article called [[List of Stratocaster players]]. '''[[User:Ariedartin|Ariedartin JECJY]]''' [[User_talk:Ariedartin|Talk]] 03:45, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:It would be better to gather opinions from other editors, esp. from those who regularly maintain the article. I for one don't see a major problem with the section and I think "edit wars" is overstating it a bit. I'm reverting your change until more input is received. Cheers. [[User:PJM|PJM]] 05:40, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
::I'd say edit war is understatment. More than 75% of the edits here are regarding the list of Stratocaster players, which is quite annoying if you're trying to look out for vandals and bad content edits. And if we're going to wait for input, we may as well abort this altogether. Furthermore, I don't see the rationale behind reverting my edits. The idea is this: there is currently only one view on the current situation, and you aren't opposing it, yet you don't allow my changes. '''[[User:Ariedartin|Ariedartin JECJY]]''' 

::: It's always been a popular section for people to edit and I don't see where it shrouds vanadlism. There are many users and bots nipping vandalism in the bud these days and it almost never goes unnoticed. I think my position is very clear and reasonable: allow other editors to express their opinions before removing a chunk of content from a section.

:::There is more than one view here and they've been expressed...please don't ignore them. Allow a couple days for more input, if there's no additional insight after that, I do not object to removing the content once again and replacing it with a Wikilink to your list article. Thanks. [[User:PJM|PJM]] 14:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I am going to lean towards PJM's view for now. I am not totally against having a "list of Stratocaster players", but I would only support it if it were setup similar to the [[List of Telecaster players]] article. For that article the rules are very strict. Players added to the list must have citations to show that their "notable use" is actually notable. It's very easy to maintain and is, in my opinion, worthy of "featured list" recognition. As it stands right now...the newly created Strat list says it's just a "list of notable Strat players"...and that's it. And on Wikipedia, a list of notable "anything" usually gets afd'd pretty quick as just another POV list. [[User:Anger22|Anger22]] 11:38, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I agree with you there. But there are already rules for artistes who qualify under [[Wikipedia:Notability (music)]], and to back up their notable use of Stratocasters we'll put the list in the talk page here for users to verify their artiste's notable use of Stratocasters. '''[[User:Ariedartin|Ariedartin JECJY]]''' [[User_talk:Ariedartin|Talk]] 12:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Here it is:

<blockquote>
[[Jeff Baxter|Jeff "Skunk" Baxter]],[[Tommy Bolin]], [[Fast Eddie Clarke]], [[Bob Dylan]], [[John Frusciante]], [[Janick Gers]], [[Mick Green]], [[Albert Hammond Jr.]], [[George Harrison]], [[Mary Kaye]], [[Terry Kath]], [[Ed King]], [[Alex Lifeson]], [[Nils Lofgren]], [[Dave Murray (musician)|Dave Murray]], [[Mike Oldfield]], [[Bonnie Raitt]], [[Johnny Ramone]], [[Uli Jon Roth]], [[Steve_Rothery|Steve Rothery]], [[Mike Rutherford]], [[Richie Sambora]], [[Hillel Slovak]], [[Adrian Smith]], [[Richard Thompson]], [[Pete Townshend]], [[Henry Vestine]], [[Joe Walsh]] and [[Frank Zappa]].
</blockquote>

Please remove the respective player's name from this block here once you have backed up their notable use of Stratocasters in [[List of Stratocaster players]]. '''[[User:Ariedartin|Ariedartin JECJY]]''' [[User_talk:Ariedartin|Talk]]

== Cobain the Guitar Smasher ==

I don't care if you think he was a bad player or not, but he was big. A VERY big rockstar. Very influential too. He also liked smashing guitars. So if you can have random crap like "As of 2000, there were "thirty-one distinct factory-made Stratocaster models available"" then I think you can talk about Cobain's choice of guitar to smash. So stop removing it! [[User:211.31.30.11|211.31.30.11]] 09:28, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
::It's removed because it is [[WP:NOR|original research]] and needs a [[WP:CITE|citation]] in order to remain. [[User:Anger22|Anger22]] 10:12, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

::I got it from another Wiki: [[List of musical equipment used by Kurt Cobain]] [[User:BurningZeppelin|BurningZeppelin]] 10:39, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

:::I suppose we could quote it from the citation given on the list - if there's a citation, that is. '''[[User:Ariedartin|Ariedartin JECJY]]''' [[User_talk:Ariedartin|Talk]] 14:53, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
:The "list" has no citations for the Strat smashing comment. There is an FAQ listed as a source at the end. It mentions a few specific smashed guitars and has a few pics. It doesn't say that it was his "favourite" guitar to smash. But it does provide some evidence that he did destroy a small number of them. Perhaps with more specific wording, and the FAQ as a cite, it can be added back in. It is POV/NOR to assume "favourite" though. Maybe a link to an interview where he actually states that can be found? [[User:Anger22|Anger22]] 16:53, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
:Based on what has been provided, I don't see this "favorite" claim as being verifiable. If a [[wikipedia:reliable source|reliable]] direct quote stating so can be found - that's different. However, since Japanese Strats are not quite alone on his supposed list of stagekill, I see it as triva more pertinent to Cobain than to the Fender Stratocaster. [[User:PJM|PJM]] 18:04, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

== American Stratocaster ==
Shouldn't "American Stratocaster" automatically redirect to this page? [[User:EarthGuardian|EarthGuardian]] 22:12, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

== Sound and playability ==

Probably worth mentioning the characteristic Strat out-of-phase sound obtained from the intermediate pick-up selector position. Opinions? [[User:Recursion see recursion|Recursion see recursion]] 21:54, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
:[[WP:CITE|Citations?]] Technical content is great but without decent refs it always ends up reading like [[WP:NOR|original research]]. [[User:Anger22|Anger22]] 22:01, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. I'll dig out a suitable reference. [[User:Recursion see recursion|Recursion see recursion]] 22:15, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Fender Stratocaster

2006-10-16T21:54:23Z

Recursion see recursion: Sound and playability

User:Recursion see recursion

2006-10-14T21:04:54Z

Recursion see recursion:

== NanoBio ==

I'm Paul Englefield, a bookish usability consultant currently acting as User Experience competency lead for a UK IT services organization. I'm interested in tools, methods, and models to support the design and evaluation of interactive systems to be 'effective, efficient, and satisfying' (''[[ISO9241]]''). Given the multidisciplinary nature of [[human-computer interaction]], I'm interested in [[psychology]], [[ergonomics]], [[software engineering]], [[graphic design]], [[typography]] [[library science]] and [[design]].

== About the nickname ==

If you're a mathematician or programmer, you'll be familiar with the charms of [[recursion]]. If not, think of this as the verbal equivalent of stepping into a mirrored lift.

User:Recursion see recursion

2006-10-14T21:04:18Z

Recursion see recursion:

== NanoBio ==

I'm Paul Englefield, a bookish usability consultant currently acting as User Experience competency lead for a UK IT services organization. I'm interested in tools, methods, and models to support the design and evaluation of interactive systems to be 'effective, efficient, and satisfying' (''ISO9241''). Given the multidisciplinary nature of [[human-computer interaction]], I'm interested in [[psychology]], [[ergonomics]], [[software engineering]], [[graphic design]], [[typography]] [[library science]] and [[design]].

== About the nickname ==

If you're a mathematician or programmer, you'll be familiar with the charms of [[recursion]]. If not, think of this as the verbal equivalent of stepping into a mirrored lift.