Talk:Henry Rutgers and Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 July 7: Difference between pages

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July 7

NEW NOMINATIONS

Cannonball Adderley

Merge both into Category:Cannonball Adderley albums, convention of Category:Albums by artist. I don't see going any further as helpful. -- Prove It ^(talk) 21:26, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Something Awful

Category:Something Awful - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Only contains one article and an image. Everything else that used to be in the category has been merged, removed, or deleted. No longer useful. --- RockMFR 20:10, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Milwaukee area radio stations

Propose renaming Category:Milwaukee area radio stations to Category:Radio stations in Milwaukee

Nominator's rationale: For consistency with other geographic radio station categories. JPG-GR 18:52, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Films about bowling

Propose renaming Category:Films about bowling to Category:Bowling films

Nominator's rationale: Rename, to match other subcategories of Category:Sports films. PC78 18:29, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Christmas Hymns

Rename to Category:Christmas hymns, However, if it's still empty at the close of discussion, we should just delete it. -- Prove It ^(talk) 16:56, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment isn't it duplicating some songs in Category:Christmas carols? Is their a distinction between a Christmas carol and a Christmas hymn? Lugnuts 17:30, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Pokémon families

Category:Pokémon families - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: It was agreed by Wikiproject Pokemon that this category be deleted. It does not fit into the existing organizational scheme. Zxcvbnm 14:44, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Arrondissements of Guyane

Propose renaming Category:Arrondissements of Guyane to Category:Arrondissements of French Guiana

Nominator's rationale: Rename, in English as per category:French Guiana. Dominictimms 12:43, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:I'm a Celebrity, Get Me out of Here!

Category:I'm a Celebrity, Get Me out of Here! - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization. Don't need a cat for every person who's appeard on a gameshow. Lugnuts 09:42, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to Category:I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here! participants. For whatever reason, we treat reality show participants differently than we do actors, probably because in many cases the reality show appearance is what the person is most notable for if not their only notability. In the absence of some reason to treat this show differently or a wider discussion of the standard, rename and relocate under parent Category:Participants in British reality television series. Otto4711 14:36, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, I don't see why you need articles for people that are only notable for gameshow appearances. List them on the page itself instead.--Zxcvbnm 14:46, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is not an argument for deleting the category but is instead related to notability guidelines. As long as reality show contestant articles pass notability and exist there need to be categories for them.

Rename to Category:I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here! participants and relocate per Otto4711, and filter out the articles of presenters etc. — AnemoneProjectors (zomg!) 16:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - These people (who were considered celebrities before appearing on this show) have still made many guest appearances on many shows. Categories for all of these guest appearances would quickly become cluttersome. I therefore advocate deletion. (List articles would be much more appropriate for this type of thing.) Dr. Submillimeter 18:43, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Episode articles not asserting notability

Propose renaming Category:Episode articles not asserting notability to Category:Unreferenced episode articles

Nominator's rationale: Rename, The template which adds articles to this category has been renamed from {{episode-notability}} to {{Unreferenced episode}} per TFD and DRV discussion, so the category should also be renamed accordingly. Tim! 09:40, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Factual references do not necessarily establish notability. I'm not sure of the whole history of the larger dispute here, but look forward to learning more. --Jack Merridew 10:06, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment -- All episodes have at least one reference... the episode itself... which is a verifiable source. Matthew 10:25, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support - much clearer title and in accordance with recent discussion. Addhoc 10:29, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Jack. Per the Episode Guideline, the issue is one of notability before one of references. The category should reflect that. Eusebeus 10:51, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - On the grounds that an episode article with a single reference would no longer fit that new category title, but that single reference doesn't necessarily have to establish notability. Notability is established by reliable sources, but reliable sources don't necessarily establish notability. It's based on the information. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 12:58, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Alternate name. Just to make things confusing, I prefer Category:Episode articles lacking reliable references, mirroring Category:Articles lacking reliable references, the category for {{Primarysources}}. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 18:07, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose rename - Lacking information on notability is not the same as lacking references. For example, if someone writes an article on Anonymous Show: Episode 5 and simply lists the cast and crew for the show with references, that article has references but fails to explain the show's notability. However, if someone writes an article on Anonymous Show: Episode 6 and explains how an actor won an Emmy for his revolutionary acting in the show but fails to cite any sources, then that article successfully states why the show is notable but fails to cite sources. This should be a sufficient explanation for why this category should not be renamed. Dr. Submillimeter 18:52, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose / Alternative name to "Episode articles not establishing notability". Regardless of the template that adds it, the intention is to track episode articles that don't establish their notability. -- Ned Scott 20:29, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Subways

Propose renaming Category:Subways to Category:Metros

Nominator's rationale: Possibly more universal. Simply south 09:32, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rename per nom. Dominictimms 12:45, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - See Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 July 23#Category:Subways and Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 November 2#Category:Subways. Renames have been debated twice on this category with no consensus to rename. Dr. Submillimeter 18:55, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Benjamin Orr albums

Category:Benjamin Orr albums - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: There is only one album by the late Benjamin Orr, thus a unique category for him is pointless. Z00ropean 04:14, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per Category:Albums by artist structure. This is one of the few times on WP that a category with one entry can be kept. See the Lily Allen albums discussion from a few days back. Lugnuts 08:41, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Lugnuts. Dominictimms 12:44, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Lugnuts. JPG-GR 18:53, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Ash Ketchum's friend's Pokémon

Category:Ash Ketchum's friend's Pokémon - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Crufty category, makes no sense why one would want to know this, and soon to be empty. Zxcvbnm 03:19, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Films about skateboarding

Propose renaming Category:Films about skateboarding to Category:Skateboarding films

Nominator's rationale: Rename, to match the other subcategories of Category:Sports films. PC78 02:39, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Hero races

Category:Hero races - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Good-faith contribution by relatively new editor, but alas this category is subject to WP:OR/non-NPOV since there are no concrete and objective criteria for inclusion. --EEMeltonIV 01:29, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Fictional characters are not divided into "hero" and "villian" categories because the term suffers from POV problems, because the characters are often too complex to be placed into such straightforward categories, and because characters often switch allegiances. Dr. Submillimeter 18:59, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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+<noinclude><div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 0 auto; padding: 0 1px 0 0; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; font-size:10px">
-{{WikiProject Rutgers}}
+{| width = "100%"
-{{WPBiography|class=start}}
+|-
+! width="50%" align="left"  | <font color="grey">&lt;</font> [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 July 6|July 6]]
+! width="50%" align="right" | [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 July 8|July 8]] <font color="grey">&gt;</font>
+|}
+</div></noinclude>
+=== July 7 ===
+<!-- Please do not add new nominations here.
+     Use the current day's NEW NOMINATIONS section
+     (to properly order entries and avoid edit conflicts).
+     Thank you for your cooperation.
+  -->
+==== NEW NOMINATIONS ====
+<!-- Please add the newest nominations below this line -->
+==== Cannonball Adderley ====
+:{{lc|Cannonball Adderley hard bop albums}}
+:{{lc|Cannonball Adderley soul-jazz albums}}
+:'''''Merge both''' into [[:Category:Cannonball Adderley albums]], convention of [[:Category:Albums by artist]].  I don't see going any further as helpful.'' -- <i>[[User:ProveIt|Prove It]] <sup>[[User talk:ProveIt|(talk)]]</sup></i> 21:26, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+==== Category:Something Awful ====
+:[[:Category:Something Awful]] - {{lc1|Something Awful}}<br />
+:'''Nominator's rationale:''' {{{3|Only contains one article and an image. Everything else that used to be in the category has been merged, removed, or deleted. No longer useful. --- [[User:RockMFR|RockMFR]] 20:10, 7 July 2007 (UTC)}}}
+==== Category:Milwaukee area radio stations ====
+:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Milwaukee area radio stations]] to [[:Category:Radio stations in Milwaukee]]
+:'''Nominator's rationale:''' {{{3|For consistency with other geographic radio station categories. [[User:JPG-GR|JPG-GR]] 18:52, 7 July 2007 (UTC)}}}
+==== Category:Films about bowling ====
+:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Films about bowling]] to [[:Category:Bowling films]]
+:'''Nominator's rationale:''' {{{3|'''Rename''', to match other subcategories of [[:Category:Sports films]]. [[User:PC78|PC78]] 18:29, 7 July 2007 (UTC)}}}
+====[[:Category:Christmas Hymns]]====
+:{{lc|Christmas Hymns}}
+:'''''Rename''' to [[:Category:Christmas hymns]], However, if it's still empty at the close of discussion, we should just delete it.'' -- <i>[[User:ProveIt|Prove It]] <sup>[[User talk:ProveIt|(talk)]]</sup></i> 16:56, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+*'''Comment''' isn't it duplicating some songs in [[:Category:Christmas carols]]?  Is their a distinction between a Christmas carol and a Christmas hymn? [[User:Lugnuts|Lugnuts]] 17:30, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+==== Category:Pokémon families ====
+:[[:Category:Pokémon families]] - {{lc1|Pokémon families}}<br />
+:'''Nominator's rationale:''' {{{3|It was agreed by Wikiproject Pokemon that this category be deleted. It does not fit into the existing organizational scheme. [[User:Zxcvbnm|Zxcvbnm]] 14:44, 7 July 2007 (UTC)}}}
+==== Category:Arrondissements of Guyane ====
+:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Arrondissements of Guyane]] to [[:Category:Arrondissements of French Guiana]]
+:'''Nominator's rationale:''' {{{3|'''Rename''', in English as per [[:category:French Guiana]]. [[User:Dominictimms|Dominictimms]] 12:43, 7 July 2007 (UTC)}}}
+==== Category:I'm a Celebrity, Get Me out of Here! ====
+:[[:Category:I'm a Celebrity, Get Me out of Here!]] - {{lc1|I'm a Celebrity, Get Me out of Here!}}<br />
+:'''Nominator's rationale:''' {{{3|Overcategorization.  Don't need a cat for every person who's appeard on a gameshow. [[User:Lugnuts|Lugnuts]] 09:42, 7 July 2007 (UTC)}}}
+*'''Rename to [[:Category:I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here! participants]]'''. For whatever reason, we treat reality show participants differently than we do actors, probably because in many cases the reality show appearance is what the person is most notable for if not their only notability. In the absence of some reason to treat this show differently or a wider discussion of the standard, rename and relocate under parent [[:Category:Participants in British reality television series]]. [[User:Otto4711|Otto4711]] 14:36, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+*'''Delete''', I don't see why you need articles for people that are only notable for gameshow appearances. List them on the page itself instead.--[[User:Zxcvbnm|Zxcvbnm]] 14:46, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+:*This is not an argument for deleting the category but is instead related to [[WP:N|notability guidelines]]. As long as reality show contestant articles pass notability and exist there need to be categories for them.
+*'''Rename''' to [[:Category:I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here! participants]] and relocate per Otto4711, and filter out the articles of presenters etc. &mdash; [[User:AnemoneProjectors|AnemoneProjectors]] <small>([[User talk:AnemoneProjectors|zomg!]])</small> 16:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+*'''Delete''' - These people (who were considered celebrities before appearing on this show) have still made many guest appearances on many shows.  Categories for all of these guest appearances would quickly become cluttersome.  I therefore advocate deletion.  (List articles would be much more appropriate for this type of thing.)  [[User:Dr. Submillimeter|Dr. Submillimeter]] 18:43, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+==== Category:Episode articles not asserting notability ====
+:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Episode articles not asserting notability]] to [[:Category:Unreferenced episode articles]]
+:'''Nominator's rationale:''' {{{3|'''Rename''', The template which adds articles to this category has been renamed from {{tl|episode-notability}} to {{tl|Unreferenced episode}} per [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 June 24|TFD]] and [[Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 July 4|DRV discussion]], so the category should also be renamed accordingly. [[User:Tim!|Tim!]] 09:40, 7 July 2007 (UTC)}}}
+* '''Oppose''' - Factual references do not necessarily establish notability. I'm not sure of the whole history of the larger dispute here, but look forward to learning more. --[[User:Jack Merridew|Jack Merridew]] 10:06, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+*'''Comment''' -- All episodes have at least one reference... the episode itself... which is a verifiable source. [[User:Matthew|Matthew]] 10:25, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+*'''Support''' - much clearer title and in accordance with recent discussion. [[User:Addhoc|Addhoc]] 10:29, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+*'''Oppose''' per Jack. Per the [[WP:EPISODE|Episode Guideline]], the issue is one of notability before one of references. The category should reflect that. [[User:Eusebeus|Eusebeus]] 10:51, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+*'''Oppose''' - On the grounds that an episode article with a single reference would no longer fit that new category title, but that single reference doesn't necessarily have to establish notability. Notability is established by reliable sources, but reliable sources don't necessarily establish notability. It's based on the information. [[User:Bignole|<small>'''<span style="background:Maroon;color:Gold"> &nbsp;BIGNOLE&nbsp;</span>'''</small>]]  [[User talk:Bignole|<small>(Contact me)</small>]] 12:58, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+*'''Alternate name'''. Just to make things confusing, I prefer [[:Category:Episode articles lacking reliable references]], mirroring [[:Category:Articles lacking reliable references]], the category for {{tl|Primarysources}}. - [[User:A Man In Black|A Man In <font color="black">'''Bl♟ck'''</font>]] <small>([[User talk:A_Man_In_Black|conspire]] | [[Special:Contributions/A Man In Black|past ops]])</small> 18:07, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+*'''Oppose rename''' - Lacking information on notability is not the same as lacking references.  For example, if someone writes an article on [[Anonymous Show: Episode 5]] and simply lists the cast and crew for the show with references, that article has references but fails to explain the show's notability.  However, if someone writes an article on [[Anonymous Show: Episode 6]] and explains how an actor won an Emmy for his revolutionary acting in the show but fails to cite any sources, then that article successfully states why the show is notable but fails to cite sources.  This should be a sufficient explanation for why this category should not be renamed.  [[User:Dr. Submillimeter|Dr. Submillimeter]] 18:52, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+*'''Oppose / Alternative name''' to "''Episode articles not establishing notability''". Regardless of the template that adds it, the intention is to track episode articles that don't establish their notability. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 20:29, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+==== Category:Subways ====
+:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Subways]] to [[:Category:Metros]]
+:'''Nominator's rationale:''' {{{3|Possibly more universal. [[User:Simply south|Simply south]] 09:32, 7 July 2007 (UTC)}}}
+*'''Rename''' per nom. [[User:Dominictimms|Dominictimms]] 12:45, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+*'''Comment''' - See [[Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 July 23#Category:Subways]] and [[Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 November 2#Category:Subways]].  Renames have been debated twice on this category with no consensus to rename.  [[User:Dr. Submillimeter|Dr. Submillimeter]] 18:55, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+==== Category:Benjamin Orr albums ====
+:[[:Category:Benjamin Orr albums]] - {{lc1|Benjamin Orr albums}}<br />
+:'''Nominator's rationale:''' {{{3|There is only one [[The Lace (Benjamin Orr album)|album]] by the late Benjamin Orr, thus a unique category for him is pointless. [[User:Z00ropean|Z00ropean]] 04:14, 7 July 2007 (UTC)}}}
+* '''Keep''' as per [[:Category:Albums by artist]] structure.  This is one of the few times on WP that a category with one entry can be kept.  See the [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 June 30|Lily Allen albums]] discussion from a few days back. [[User:Lugnuts|Lugnuts]] 08:41, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+*'''Keep''' per [[User:Lugnuts|Lugnuts]]. [[User:Dominictimms|Dominictimms]] 12:44, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+*'''Keep''' per [[User:Lugnuts|Lugnuts]]. [[User:JPG-GR|JPG-GR]] 18:53, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+==== Category:Ash Ketchum's friend's Pokémon ====
+:[[:Category:Ash Ketchum's friend's Pokémon]] - {{lc1|Ash Ketchum's friend's Pokémon}}<br />
+:'''Nominator's rationale:''' {{{3|Crufty category, makes no sense why one would want to know this, and soon to be empty. [[User:Zxcvbnm|Zxcvbnm]] 03:19, 7 July 2007 (UTC)}}}
+==== Category:Films about skateboarding ====
+:'''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Films about skateboarding]] to [[:Category:Skateboarding films]]
+:'''Nominator's rationale:''' {{{3|'''Rename''', to match the other subcategories of [[:Category:Sports films]]. [[User:PC78|PC78]] 02:39, 7 July 2007 (UTC)}}}
+==== Category:Hero races ====
+:[[:Category:Hero races]] - {{lc1|Hero races}}<br />
+:'''Nominator's rationale:''' {{{3|Good-faith contribution by relatively new editor, but alas this category is subject to [[WP:OR]]/non-[[WP:NPOV|NPOV]] since there are no concrete and objective criteria for inclusion. --[[User:EEMeltonIV|EEMeltonIV]] 01:29, 7 July 2007 (UTC)}}}
+*'''Delete''' - Fictional characters are not divided into "hero" and "villian" categories because the term suffers from POV problems, because the characters are often too complex to be placed into such straightforward categories, and because characters often switch allegiances.  [[User:Dr. Submillimeter|Dr. Submillimeter]] 18:59, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
+<!-- Please add the newest nominations to the top -->