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Kindly provide credible sources that the groups involved are constitute as Malay sub-groups (i.e. journals, news article, verified articles). Rather than a questionable single source, these groups are not even considered as Malays (nor its sub-etnics) by the Indonesian National Sensus. The only sources that we can find that the areas used Malays as a lingua franca by various local etnicities. --[[User:The Bangsawan|د بڠساون]] ([[User talk:The Bangsawan|talk]]) 04:05, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Kindly provide credible sources that the groups involved are constitute as Malay sub-groups (i.e. journals, news article, verified articles). Rather than a questionable single source, these groups are not even considered as Malays (nor its sub-etnics) by the Indonesian National Sensus. The only sources that we can find that the areas used Malays as a lingua franca by various local etnicities. --[[User:The Bangsawan|د بڠساون]] ([[User talk:The Bangsawan|talk]]) 04:05, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
:{{re|The Bangsawan}} Agree. This a conflation of ethnicity and linguistic affiliation. Vehicular or Creole Malay languages emerged as contact languages. Their speakers shifted from local languages to superregional Malay-based creoles, but do not self-identify as Malays, nor do self-identifying Malays from Sumatra and Borneo consider these Vehicular Malay speakers as Malays. Most of them retain their local ethnic affiliation in spite of the language shift.
:But you have thrown out one baby with the bathwater: the Batin people are generallly considered a Malay sub-ethnicity. With better (i.e. ethnographic, not just linguistic) sources, they can be reinserted here. –[[User:Austronesier|Austronesier]] ([[User talk:Austronesier|talk]]) 16:46, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Revision as of 16:46, 17 January 2021

Template:Vital article

Can I add Parameswara and Sharif Kabungsuwan?

Parameswara was the first Sultan of Malacca, then there's Kabungsuwan credited for spreading Islam up north from Sulu to Manila. PacificWarrior101 (talk) 07:17, 9 November 2012 (UTC)PacificWarrior101[reply]

More information on the origins of Malays

MALAY ORIGINS: Evidence suggests otherwise (DATUK Dr Ananda Kumaraseri). Komitsuki (talk) 16:04, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Old theories" and "New findings"

The paragraph on the Human Genome Organization study, and the material surrounding it, is not an accurate reflection of the source. Besides the fact that a better source is needed than a news blurb, the study and its conclusions related to the initial settlement of Asia, many thousands of years before the events and theories discussed in this article. There is nothing on when the Malay peninsula itself was settled, or on whether that was as a single migration, or how this related to the peoples currently living there. These could all be explained by a misunderstanding of the material. However, later additions like Malays being older than "Mongoloids" (what can such a thing even mean?), Malays having an older civilization than others in Asia, or this study supplanting any other theories of Malaysian settlement are the invention of later editors, completely unrelated to what is in the source. There is certainly no support for 18th century racial theories, and from what I understand of the Lenggong site, the early skeletons there are more like the populations grouped together as Australoid. So, if any of this is to be re-added, it needs reliable sourcing, has to actually state what the source says accurately, and be relevant to the topic. Ergative rlt (talk) 19:46, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Further on the above: it's not my "POV" that the HUGO source is being represented - the BBC article simply does not make the claims that are being attributed to it. The Oppenheimer source, while giving a theory that Malays have always been there, is again a news item, says nothing about civilization ages, and gives no sign of being the current standard view on the subject. While it may be useful to include Oppenheimer's theory, treating it as true in the editorial voice is a clear violation of WP:UNDUE unless evidence that it is the standard view is provided. It also says nothing about 18th century racial classifications - that is pure WP:OR. As for the Lenggong link, that is to descriptions of Paleolithic sites that don't support the surrounding material in this article - there is certainly nothing there that claims that say the Bukit Bunuh or other sites were populated by people who would be considered Malays. So again- better sources, do not include material not backed by the sources, and don't present speculation as though it is the currently accepted theory on the settlement of the peninsula and surrounding areas. Ergative rlt (talk) 02:20, 24 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This comment is 7 years old but that this is also what I'm getting from reading that section. Reads like a Malay nationalist edited it. Even the genealogy section states that the Taiwan model is probably the most accurate based on genetic dating data. Chicbicyclist (talk) 06:49, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox photos

How come there are only 20 photos of Malays in the infobox? Isn’t there at least 5 million Malays. They all need a photo, and in the infobox. 20 is just not enough. Can someone please fix this, and include a photo of every Malay please. Thank you --Merbabu (talk) 02:04, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Stupid Indon with some cheap sarcasm detected. The collage in the Malay article is more diverse compared to some cheap Indon ethnic collages, which only filled with some politicians and celebrities. There are Politicians, Royal figures, an Explorer, an ancient Warrior, celebrities, a cartoonist, a sportsman, an astronaut, a diplomat, a National Bank Governor and poets in the collage. Indon, dont get buthurt please.
Because using the word "buthurt" [sic] is soooo much more intelligent.
Actually, I was merely commenting on the execessive number of pictures. Not what or who was pictured. I was not making any comparisons between Indonesians, and I presume, Malaysians.
PS - I'm not Indonesian. --Merbabu (talk) 23:56, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh really?, your username sounds too Indon to me though. Maybe u are a citizen of a particular country but of Indon descent, but that doesnt make u less Indon in nature. With only 20 photos in place, for me at least, its not that excessive compared to other ethnic groups e.g - Sinhalese (15 millions people with 25 photos) or Serbs (10.5 million people with 30 photos). I suppose maybe its time for you to do some sarcasm there too for having "excessive number of pictures". What or who was pictured was exactly the main reason why we have the current collage, which is a diverse one. It represents Malays of different time, genders, professions, nationalities, and most importantly of various Malay sub-ethnic groups (3 Kedahans, 3 Malaccans, 2 Bruneians, a Pontianak Malay, a Terengganuan, a Perakian, 2 Singaporeans, a Johorean, a Pattani, a Pahangite, a Bugis Malay, a Minang Malay, a Deli Malay, a Bangka-Belitung Malay) . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.133.196.89 (talk) 11:45, 29 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why is Mahathir Mohammed pictured in the infobox as ethnic Malay when he is half indian, at least, from the paternal side? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.186.207.155 (talk) 12:21, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The one who is half Indian is his father, not him. His paternal grandmother is a Malay, and so his maternal grandparents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:E68:4406:B0FB:3409:BAB8:E226:5302 (talk) 12:29, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Come on guys, let's no take this to Burger King. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.206.241.41 (talk) 06:08, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Malay nationalist politics in Indonesia

Polticized Malay nationalist sentiment led to Malay violence against the Madurese in the 1999 Sambas riots. Muslim Malays massacred and rape 3,000 Muslim Madurese in 1999, with some help from animist or Christian Dayaks.

http://books.google.com/books?id=OrdM8X7CBTAC&pg=PA299&lpg=PA299&dq=dayaks+malay+madurese&source=bl&ots=uZeyxBWjTh&sig=HJgReO2XzQEeybz5g8k2mMqTKXk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=e8_vUpXQJqvJsQTvt4GYDA&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=dayaks%20malay%20madurese&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=mk-nXY3HQfoC&pg=PA83&dq=sambas+riots&hl=en&sa=X&ei=01YWU6nOMK3I0gHosIDwDg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=sambas%20riots&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=wJ0pCgm5xS8C&pg=PA186&dq=through+anti-Madurese+violence,+Malay+proves+indigeneity+part+politicized+field+ethnicity&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EVkWU8fHF8qU0QHGt4CoBg&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=through%20anti-Madurese%20violence%2C%20Malay%20proves%20indigeneity%20part%20politicized%20field%20ethnicity&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=wpJGooepEMYC&pg=PA143&dq=Sambas+1999+violence+Malay+claim+indigeneity+Koebillah&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0VgWU-7ABsWf0QGTzYHACg&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Sambas%201999%20violence%20Malay%20claim%20indigeneity%20Koebillah&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=mPLgeU6K6pMC&pg=PA138&dq=through+anti-Madurese+violence,+Malay+proves+indigeneity+part+politicized+field+ethnicity&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EVkWU8fHF8qU0QHGt4CoBg&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=through%20anti-Madurese%20violence%2C%20Malay%20proves%20indigeneity%20part%20politicized%20field%20ethnicity&f=false


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia-pacific/1186401.stm

http://www.culturalsurvival.org/ourpublications/csq/article/violence-indonesian-borneo-spurs-relocation-ethnic-madurese

http://indahnesia.com/indonesia/SAMPEO/people.php

http://books.google.com/books?id=EUDii8kvQYAC&pg=PA73#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=IUet7tl_j90C&pg=PA90&dq=Afu+Chinese+Dayaks+Malays+senasib&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tN0KU_yOF8buyAHTzIHwCw&ved=0CCsQ6wEwAA#v=onepage&q=Afu%20Chinese%20Dayaks%20Malays%20senasib&f=false

http://www.library.ohiou.edu/indopubs/1999/03/24/0128.html

http://www.library.ohiou.edu/indopubs/1999/03/21/0047.html

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/1999/04/20/the-solution-sambas-riots.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=JWQqTQUrHTwC&pg=PT24&dq=chinese+peaceful+dayak&hl=en&sa=X&ei=OtsKU6eFNOeayAGK5oHABg&ved=0CFAQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=chinese%20peaceful%20dayak&f=false


http://books.google.com/books?id=gZU0jbXt5MkC&pg=PA62#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Gr3IAVnqmvQC&pg=PA34&dq=Since+1950+in+west+kalimantan+there+have+been+thirteen+conflicts&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Wd0KU7HeAqLCyQGTqoDoDQ&ved=0CDYQ6wEwAg#v=onepage&q=Since%201950%20in%20west%20kalimantan%20there%20have%20been%20thirteen%20conflicts&f=false

Ethnic Malay nationalism in Indonesian Kalimantan is tied to the Sultanates of Borneo and especially to Sultan Hamid II's image.

http://books.google.com/books?id=EUDii8kvQYAC&pg=PA83&dq=Raden+Winata+Kusumah+Crown+Prince+Malay+rehabilitate+Sultan+Hamid+II&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-CFDU_7xNOmkyQHJ4IDQAw&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Raden%20Winata%20Kusumah%20Crown%20Prince%20Malay%20rehabilitate%20Sultan%20Hamid%20II&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 08:00, 19 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal for the deletion of all the galleries of personalities from the articles about ethnic groups

Seemingly there is a significant number of commentators which support the general removal of infobox collages. I think there is a great opportunity to get a general agreement on this matter. It is clear that it has to be a broad consensus, which must involve as many editors as possible, otherwise there is a big risk for this decision to be challenged in the near future. I opened a Request for comment process, hoping that more people will adhere to this proposal. Please comment here. TravisRade (talk) 23:06, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That is not an RfC and it doesn't follow the RfC process. It's just a collection of opinions and has no authority. Liz Read! Talk! 23:15, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The RfC was opened correctly. please comment at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups#Proposal_for_the_deletion_of_all_the_galleries_of_personalities_from_the_infoboxes_of_articles_about_ethnic_groups. Dkfldlksdjaskd (talk) 09:30, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Proto-reconstruction for the ethnonym "malay"?

Is there a proto-reconstruction (Austronesian) for the ethnonym "malay" ? and who provided the reconstruction ? Gustmeister (talk) 15:17, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:41, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Bangkok Malays = Thai Malays?

I wondered on the section about sub-ethnic groups of Malays, are Bangkok Malays different with Thai Malays? Or Bangkok Malays are a part of Thai Malays? On this section, Bangkok Malays lives in Bangkok and its surroundings, while in the Thai Malays page, Thai Malays lives in southern Thailand. Could someone explain it? So that, we can fix the section. —Ibra Bintang (talk) 16:58, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bacan, Batin, Papuans, Larantukans Malays.

Kindly provide credible sources that the groups involved are constitute as Malay sub-groups (i.e. journals, news article, verified articles). Rather than a questionable single source, these groups are not even considered as Malays (nor its sub-etnics) by the Indonesian National Sensus. The only sources that we can find that the areas used Malays as a lingua franca by various local etnicities. --د بڠساون (talk) 04:05, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The Bangsawan: Agree. This a conflation of ethnicity and linguistic affiliation. Vehicular or Creole Malay languages emerged as contact languages. Their speakers shifted from local languages to superregional Malay-based creoles, but do not self-identify as Malays, nor do self-identifying Malays from Sumatra and Borneo consider these Vehicular Malay speakers as Malays. Most of them retain their local ethnic affiliation in spite of the language shift.
But you have thrown out one baby with the bathwater: the Batin people are generallly considered a Malay sub-ethnicity. With better (i.e. ethnographic, not just linguistic) sources, they can be reinserted here. –Austronesier (talk) 16:46, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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