User talk:ILIL: Difference between revisions

Vaporwave!

I just wanted to drop by and say great job with the Vaporwave article!--Gen. Quon (Talk) 04:10, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

The Beatles: Get Back

I was wondering why you created a article for the The Beatles: Get Back when I created a draft months ago at Draft:The Beatles: Get Back. Could we potentially merged the editing histories of my draft, so that its history isn't tossed aside or thrown away? Cardei012597 (talk) 21:24, 12 May 2020 (UTC) Cardei012597 (talk) 21:24, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

The histmerge has been completed. Cardei012597 (talk) 22:04, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

ex-Beatle collaborations page

Good job with the clean. Recently the name was changed from Collaborations between ex-Beatles to that clunky mess. There's a discussion on the talk page to revert it back. What say you? Hotcop2 (talk)

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Joe Thomas Bio

I am writing in regards to music producer, Joe Thomas. His BIO includes inaccurate and false information. I saw that you were also editing the platform. Would you be able to help to get his correct BIO with true and factual information added to his WIKI page?

[copy of IMDB bio redacted]

Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:243:501:53F1:E46C:5FF6:88B4:A111 (talk) 14:21, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

• @2601:243:501:53F1:E46C:5FF6:88B4:A111: You would need to find reputable sources that support this information. See WP:SOURCES and WP:REPUTABLE. ili (talk) 14:54, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

And also not just copy his IMDB bio, even if it's written by a publicist. —C.Fred (talk) 00:56, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

WP:BRD

Can you act like you've been here longer than since yesterday? You must know the process by now. isento (talk) 18:50, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

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About that sandbox

I've noticed you've been very busy lately on various Beach Boys wiki pages, and i see you're working on completely overhauling the page on Smile. However, i want to point out some inherent bias:

1. The tracklisting on disc 1 is inspired directly by the tracklist for BWPS, which was made for a touring setting.

2. Fly-ins are used on tracks like Holidays and Love To Say Da Da, to match the 2004 versions of songs as close as possible; this would not have been the case if the approach was to make a historically accurate Smile.

3. Autotune was used in one instance, for the "Rock With Me Henry" version of Wonderful.

4. The box set, as large and expansive as it is, fails to include master takes from several various sessions. On top of this, on several occasions wrong takes are used to represent the master.

5. The understatement on Smiley Smile's production and dismissal of the "stripped down" approach contridicts with the main theme of the Smiley Smile article.

6. There is an excessive amount of comparison and need for approval by The Beatles.

7. There is absolutely no mention of the contributions of Bruce Johnston, who not only provided vocal work on several songs but needed to take a break from early to late 1967 due to feeling overwhelmed by the group's new direction (having only joined a year prior).

8. The album as originally intended back in 1966/67 was not completed and never can be completed.

That being said, i appreciate the MASSIVE effort a project like this would take, and a lot of these points aren't even mentioned on the base Smile page.

Apologies for cluttering up your talk page, I wish wikipedia had a proper direct messaging system. --Hidlive (talk) 21:46, 29 June 2020‎ (UTC)

@Hidlive: I appreciate the feedback but I don't understand what exactly you're disputing on a lot of these points. You'd have to reference specific claims that you think expose a bias. I don't know what you think should be added re: Bruce because AFAIK Bruce was just a vocalist-for-hire and had no input on the project (he wasn't even included in the formation of Brother Records). And I don't have any sources to correct/add anything pertaining to Smile Sessions autotune or mislabeled tracks. ili (talk) 23:26, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

@ILIL: Bruce contributed vocally to Our Prayer, Wonderful, Wind Chimes, Cabinessence, Child Is Father Of The Man, Vega-Tables demo, You're Welcome, and Do You Like Worms. In addition to this he plays piano on I Don't Know, and recorder on Bag Of Tricks. I can upload a youtube video showcasing the use of autotune on Wonderful sometime, but a lot of research is being done by 2 hardworking fans. If you've heard of the Sail On podcast, they've been guesting on it quite a bit recently. Also i'm not sure if this reply will format right because i am extremely new to wikipedia editing.

@ILIL: By the way, Walkin' was officially released! It's on I Can Hear Music: The 20/20 Sessions. It's even listed at the bottom of the page... Jingle Bells was also released, on Keep An Eye On Summer - The Beach Boys Sessions 1964. Other things of note:

-Alone On Christmas Day (which is the full title, not just Christmas Day) was re-recorded by Mike for a 2015 single, which was put on his christmas album Reason For The Season.

-Be My Baby, recorded in 1980, became the basis for the final recording on Mike's album Looking Back With Love.

-California Beach was re-recorded by Mike for his album 12 Sides Of Summer.

-Rollin' Up To Heaven evolved FROM Ding Dang, not INTO. Ding Dang was first recorded in fall of '73, per AGD's site.

-Stella By Starlight and How Deep Is The Ocean have vocals. Numerous times people have tried to clear that up. You can look it up on Youtube, there are vocals on it by Dick Reynolds. It's on all the bootlegs with vocals.

-Heart And Soul and Long Tall Sally were both released on Beach Boys Party! Uncovered And Unplugged.

@Hidlive: If you want to add content to any article on Wikipedia all you have to do is cite reliable published sources, like a book or an album's liner notes. If we don't cite proper sources then the article has a high likelihood of being deleted. If you think there's information that should be added, but it's NOT supported by Bellagio 10452, then virtually nothing can be done until Doe updates his site, or until other established authorities like Mark Linett, Alan Boyd, Craig Slowinski, etc. make their own website (if they ever do). ili (talk) 22:14, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

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Smile

The previous version of the page was immaculately detailed. When you overhauled the Smile page, you also added many elements which place much weight on the project being an America-centric piece. Smile does veritably contain references to Americana, but the “themes and lyricism” section should not only focus on this one concept in detail. Domenic Priore is a reputable source and expert on Smile, so much so that the Beach Boys’ management team allowed him to co-author the liner notes in the Smile Sessions 2011 release. I notice you place tremendous value on Dale Carter’s work, which is an interesting perspective. My goal in the edit you reverted was to present information about Smile which seeks to expand on lyrical points so the “themes and lyricism” section does not solely reference the ideas within the album as being within the scope of “national allegiance and ideological persuasion”. Smile was nothing if not a project dedicated to vanguard psychedelia, universality, and openness- watch Beautiful Dreamer and other clips of Brian himself talking; he describes being interested in metaphysics and many other points that you neglected to mention in your overhaul. I find it slightly gratuitous to simply revert the edit I made on this page simply because you disagree with it. If you do not fully trust Priore there is also the quote from Robbins (who was actually present for the Smile sessions) who states the atmosphere of the times being not necessarily political, which is what I had written. I would appreciate it if you could revert your deletion of my edit or at least keep part of it. Politics and nationalism seems to be inescapable in many realms today, let us not relegate Smile to be simply a propaganda piece. “Empires, ideas, lives, institutions; everything has to fall, tumbling like dominoes.”

--Dqortsky909 (talk) 00:33, 1 July 2020, (UTC)

@Dqortsky909: Quote from historian Andrew Doe, who has published Beach Boys reference materials for 25+ years, in a review of Priore's book:

• The book doesn't match the hype. That's all you need to know. OK, so the researching is sloppy as is the editing and fact-checking, and the much-vaunted Smile section is revealed to be nothing more than suppositions and theories masquerading as facts [...] If you've got Priore's Dumb Angel Gazette #2, then you know what he's saying, and has been saying for nearly 20 years, never mind that just about all of his theories have been disproven. If you're a BB/BW fan, then you'll probably buy this book anyway. Otherwise, don't bother.

Priore is by no means a reputable authority on the Beach Boys. That's not because I "disagree" with him, it's because he writes things that aren't true, like that Cabinessence and Surf's Up has "Eastern instrumentation". The accompaniment in Surf's Up consists of piano, bass, glockenspiel, guitar, "car keys" percussion, hi-hat, and French horns, none of which could be considered Eastern by any stretch of the imagination. And as far as I'm aware, the only exotic instrument in Cabinessence is a bouzouki. There's many, many more examples of Priore's falsehoods and terrible research. In other parts of the book, he mixes up Derek Taylor with Nick Kent, and confuses the song Save the Last Dance for Me with Bells of St. Mary. He's an awful journalist. The only thing his book is really good for is the quotes from Van Dyke Parks and Frank Holmes.

In that Robbins quote you added, there was no clear indication that he was discussing Smile. When I looked in the book to see if there was anything more to the quote, I found nothing but vague suggestions that go nowhere. If you think that Smile was "dedicated to vanguard psychedelia, universality, and openness" then you need to cite sources that explicitly back up that claim. I've never read or heard Wilson talk about these topics except in quotes from "Goodbye Surfing, Hello God", which also isn't the most reliable source either (Jules Siegel later admitted that some of it was made up or exaggerated).

Dale Carter's chapter in the Good Vibrations compendium is a better source than Smile: The True Story... because, unlike Priore, Carter is a credible academic, cites his sources, is peer-reviewed, and writes substance.

I wonder if you've even noticed that there's a "Concept and inspiration" section at all, since it contains much more "immaculate detail" than in the previous version of the article. It already makes it clear that Wilson was interested in mysticism and psychedelia, and that his acquaintances had connections to the counterculture. Why do we need to repeat that information in other sections? ili (talk) 02:00, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

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en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stack-o-Tracks&oldid=966909458

20:40, 2020 July 9‎ ILIL talk contribs‎ 3,726 bytes -1,980‎ Reverted to revision 931448658 by InternetArchiveBot (talk): Improper use of citations (TW)

The links are "Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group" which means they are not pirated, the labels are poor because refill and refill/NG and Webreflinks have been broken and the zotero substitute is not robust. Each link points to the song on YouTube. What is your delete reason?

0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 09:23, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

It is highly unusual to add YouTube urls for every track on an album article.ili (talk) 09:33, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Record Companies usually provide to YouTube for long-tail tracks and highly popular tracks are usually via VEVO, there is no playlist I can find for the collective set, each reference refers to item referenced, and there is no obvious way to assume that such a resource exists, thus this seems to be a useful addition, especially since this is a highly unusual album in and of itself.

—§—0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 02:45, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

BWPS

I left a message on the talk page over at BWPS, any thoughts? gentlecollapse6 (talk) 00:46, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

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Unreleased albums and cover art

I saw you're largely responsible for the Smile article and thought you'd be a good person to ask for advice about this. I've been working on Love for Sale (Bilal album) and am thinking of cover options for the infobox, but am uncertain about the fair-use implications. The image that appears most often in association with this album on blogs and discographical sites is this one (Genius.com is among the more reputable sites), although there is no commentary on this - it could be a piece of fan-made art that simply became popular by association with the album's spread online. This interview by Albumism mentioning the album uses that image in a collage of other albums' official covers, so perhaps that counts as some kind of validation? Otherwise, there is no reliable commentary on the planned or leaked album's cover art like there is at Smile. A similar article, Camille (album), uses a limited LP copy as the cover, so I've also considered using one of these sleeves of a promotional LP ([1], [2]). What can you advise? isento (talk) 18:36, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

I'll repost this at WP:ALBUMS. isento (talk) 18:38, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

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Cool Cool Water

I have a rip of the SMiLE bootleg CD issued by "The Early Years", which is composed of needledrops from the Brother Records SMiLE LPs, judging by the pop and cracks on some tracks. Here's the relevant track, also featured the rest of the cassette's "Element Suite" recreation.

As I'm aware, Dada appears to be the the segment from Cool Cool Water usually known as "Water Chant". As this is from before the Sea of Tunes CDs, it starts with water noises, indicating that the compiler was well-aware of its rumoured origination from the Smile Sessions, but not really as it was the early Smiley Smile sessions. Sea of Tunes' SMiLE bootleg CD infamously used Water Chant [a raw session version] as an intro to Dada, and this edit has been recycled on both BWPS and the Smile Sessions [Disc 1/"The Album" proper].

Hope you understand all the above. --TapLover (talk) 10:54, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Ref errors in Good Vibrations

Could you fix the errors in citations on Good Vibrations? Refs # 55 and 56 cite Priore - a work by this author is listed in bibliography under a different year. Also, #56 missing a page number. #75 cites "Preiss 1979" but there is no such work in bibliography. Also, suggest installing script (explained at Category:Harv and Sfn no-target errors) to highlight such errors in the future. Thanks! Renata (talk) 00:21, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Same error in Jack Rieley: you have added short reference to "Leaf 1978" and "Gaines 1986" without listing full work in bibliography. Please add. Thank you, Renata (talk) 04:49, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Also Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums of All Time "Jones 2016". Renata (talk) 04:51, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

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Progressive pop

What does the phrase "mach two" you added in this edit refer to? I can't find anything about a band with this name. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 00:30, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

@Florian Blaschke: The source is most likely referring to Roxy Music post-Eno. ili (talk) 01:15, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

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You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

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Hello (again?). I tagged File:TheRonettesBeMyBaby.jpg for speedy deletion; I uploaded File:Be My Baby by The Ronettes US single side-A.png as intended replacement. --George Ho (talk) 23:39, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

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Beach Boys

Beach Boys

I am not sure how any sane person can consider clearly stating these are their top 3 singles is arbitrary and clearly stating what their first No. 1 single in the US and Canada was, and then what the first song that went to no. 3 in specific recognized areas of the planet are. Some of the text you have kept in is entirely superflous (it says words twice to the effect Brian was their leader) with extra wordage that is not needed and is not conise (i.e. greater sized audiences versus larger audiences; widely dismissed versus dismissed). You really need to examine your stubbornness. A person reading a summary of them who has never heard of them before should be able to quickly be told they are the ones who recorded a famous song like Surfin USA or I Get Around or Fun, Fun, Fun. Many experts consider God Only Knows even more significant than Good Vibrations. Not sayigng that the innovative GV was also very commercially successful also makes no sense as many critical faves are only critical faves not popular with the public. --Informed analysis (talk) 19:41, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

• It already lists Pet Sounds and Good Vibrations, the two most critically, commercially, and culturally significant records they ever released by a long shot. If readers are wondering the names of the dozen-plus top 10 singles they had in the '60s, they'd sooner consult The Beach Boys discography, or better yet, any of their greatest hits albums. It's ironic that you're complaining about repetition, and yet you want to repeat the fact that they had hits in the '60s several times over, while also scrubbing away unique achievements like how they were the only American band that kept afloat during the British Invasion, or that they have the most US hits of any native band in history. ili (talk) 17:41, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

You really need to examine yourself. Stating songs that were no. 1 or top 3 hits is not original research. The entire intro right now is original research and contains many repetitive and unimportant facts. Virtually all articles on bands or solo artists or movie actors state songs, albums or movies that the person/band did or was in. No one cares how many top 40 hits they had or that they created some record company. You are not even agreeable to meeting half way on anything. You do not appear to know the meaning of the word concise. --Informed analysis (talk) 17:02, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

• When you remove what you think is a "repetitive and unimportant fact", you are distorting the meanings of the statements -- I've already explained this in edit rationales. You're also adding chart peaks and milestones that aren't covered in the article body. This constitutes original research. I've actually kept the changes you've made that didn't introduce factual inaccuracies or original research. Also, Brother Records is not just a record company, it's a corporation that controls all the affairs related to the band itself. It's as integral to the Beach Boys as Apple Corps is to the Beatles. ili (talk) 17:41, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Responded to revert

Talk:Don't Worry Baby Tillywilly17 (talk) 14:17, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Half Barnstar
	For your work on Hyperpop. Bearian (talk) 01:34, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

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Phil Spector

If you seriously think that comma is grammatically correct then you are greatly mistaken. Yahboo (talk) 23:53, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

• @Yahboo: Correction: "gramatically correct, then you are ..." ili (talk) 23:55, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

You are incorrect yet again. A comma is not needed before "then" in that sentence. Yahboo (talk) 23:59, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

January 2021

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