User talk:Sam Spade/ - archive/November 2005: Difference between revisions

• User talk:Sam Spade/ - archive

Picture of the day Igor Stravinsky (17 June 1882 – 6 April 1971) was a Russian composer and conductor, considered to be one of the most important and influential composers of the 20th century. He studied under Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov until his death in 1908. Soon after, Stravinsky met the impresario Sergei Diaghilev, who commissioned the composer to write three ballets for Ballets Russes: The Firebird (1910), Petrushka (1911), and The Rite of Spring (1913), the last of which caused a near-riot at its premiere in Paris. His compositional style varied greatly, being influenced at different times by Russian folklore, neoclassicism, and serialism. His ideas influenced Aaron Copland, Philip Glass, Béla Bartók, and Pierre Boulez, who were all challenged to innovate beyond traditional tonality, rhythm, and form. This photograph of Stravinsky in the early 1920s is from the collection of the American photojournalist George Grantham Bain.Photograph credit: Bain News Service; restored by MyCatIsAChonk To include this picture of the day on a page, add the text {{pic of the day}}.

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I archive often, and accept a minimum of sass

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Greek Sperm

Hi, would you mind telling me where you get that stuff about the Greeks believing sperm to be the source of knowledge. Primary sources would be best. Thanks. --Haiduc 01:27, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I got it from History_of_homosexuality#Ancient_Greece, and have heard a number of things from various sources of a similar bent over the years, such as the word origen of "seminary" being something to do w the mixing of semen, and something about greek men putting their hands on their testicles when testefying in court being the origen of the term "testify". I am not an expert on this however, and am less than eager to spend long hours of research investigating the particulars of ancient greek views on semen ;) Sam [Spade] 18:45, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

actually, they held the testes when testifying, but that is the origin of 'testify', it was akin to the modern 'swearing an oath on a bible', (and apparently the testes held a similar level of importance to the greek culture) as you state sorry... I can't help further off the top of my head.Pedant 02:36, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thanx for the input. Sam [Spade] 02:38, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Wiki: Babel?

Thank you for welcome message

Would like to compliment someone for this (Wikipedia) initiative (who?)!

I consider contributing also for the Portuguese edition. But have serious doubts:

-the entries do not seem to bear even a resemblance in e.g, English and Po. Is not this terrible duplication (/multiplication) of efforts?

I understand a language is a culture is a world; still...

Do you have any info (I missed) or suggestion? Yours

Csaba Deák 23:00, 2004 Aug 4 (UTC)

I agree, I think it is foolish to have distinct articles between the the langueages, but the problem is we haven't enough multilingual users with the interest to merge and standardize them. Perhaps you can help? The best is to translate good information from one to the other, back and forth, IMO. Thank you for your kind thoughts, Sam [Spade] 23:25, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

We do have a project here at Wikipedia:Translation into English that attempts to translate articles from other language Wikipedias. Perhaps you would consider both volunteering to translate articles into English here from your native tongue, and also starting a similar project at the Portuguese Wikipedia? This is only a suggestion. I hope it is helpful. Thanks for your interest in the site, and your desire to contribute -- Jwrosenzweig 23:30, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for welcome msg and suggestion. I do plan making occasional intercourse between the two langages, although in a non-sistematic/regular way, as told in more detail in my answer to Sam below. Deák 23:19, 2004 Aug 5 (UTC)

In some cases articles in the Esperanto Wikipedia seem to have been translated from English articles, or articles in English were translated from Esperanto (e.g. Sidney S. Culbert). In many cases, though, the articles were independently written by people not aware of the other article, not having time to translate the whole of it, or not considering the whole text relevant to the interests of the other language community (e.g. I don't think any of A. E. van Vogt's works have been translated into Esperanto, so I did not think it necessary to translate the whole article about him). I suppose the same situations apply to all other language-pairs. I agree that it's a good thing to check the articles in any other languages you can read and use them as sources to improve the articles in any languages you can write competently. --Jim Henry 20:48, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Hi Sam, since you did not answer my first Q I assume it is yourself who is to be congratulated for Wikipedia. It is a stupendous idea, which created something like a 'collective brain'. Regardless of how exactly it will work in its maturity, it is certainly worth finding out. Personally I see two major problems: the accomodation of actual conflicts, which you already addressed, and dealing with the multiplicity of languages. A minor problem is that the permanent state of flux of everything contained in Wiki makes difficult (impossible?) its use as a reference, both for external and internal (through internal links) use, except with a date/time tag ('according to Wiki.Entry, on Y/M/D,...').

On the 'languages problem' (Babel) this is what I came to think so far. It is not only a question of having (enough) people to do translation. The various languages are actually verious worlds (that's what I meant with "a language is a culture is a world" above). Maybe an entry like 'Pi' or 'Elton John' is virtually unproblematic (although in the latter case interest in it and therefore level of detail required may vary greatly, as between England and China, for example). But 'local' differences are bound to be more pronounced as the entry touches closer upon specific countries' history, culture, folklore. Thus maybe what we can do is something like what happens really among the cultures: each has its own life, but this includes getting into contact with other cultures at various levels of frequency, intensity and hierarchy. This would translate into multintongued wiki-ers picking occasionally material from one language and transpose (the relevant bit of) it into the other, whether in the form of a new entry or revision of an existing one. But it is only a sort of inoculation; the effect of which will spread further in its new context independently of the evolution of the same info in its original milieu. Until a new (unplannable) contact is made ... Anyway, my plan as of now is to do precisely this: make occasional forays from En to Pt and vice-versa.

I promise not to come back with such long elocubrations in the future. --Csaba Deák 23:19, 2004 Aug 5 (UTC)

Quite alright, you can feel free to say as much as often as you like :). I am not the site founder, simply a volunteer here, if I misunderstand correctly. The site founder is User:Jimbo Wales, and he is generally too busy for greeting people ;) As far as your thoughts I generally agree, but personally would like more uniformity and less ethnocentrism. Glad to hear you are interested in putting your multilingual abilities to good use. Cheers, Sam [Spade] 23:05, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Entry needs attention

Hi Sam. New entry Alice cleaver needs dealing to by an admin, speedy deletion maybe. It is inaccurate because it combines info about two different Mary Cleavers. I believe it is a deliberate hoax. It has exactly the same odd formatting as previous hoaxes which have been deleted in the past, even down to the curious lower-case first letter for the surname. I'd put it on VfD myself but my softeware is having trouble handling it. Cheers ...Moriori 00:12, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC)

I copied your note to Talk:Alice cleaver, and put a note on Wikipedia:Cleanup as well. Have a look and see if it is all to your satisfaction :) Sam [Spade] 00:26, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the links

Much appreciated. Lots of useful information there!

LeeHunter 01:27, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Place of dialogue

I am at a loss where to pursue a dialogue (here, on Babel): you seemed to do it on your pg, but answered me one mine (where the Q is not there). Deák 02:49, 2004 Aug 5 (UTC)

Lets talk @ User_talk:Sam_Spade#Wiki:_Babel.3F. I have copied some from your talk page, I hope it helps. Sam [Spade] 02:58, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Your comments

Spade, I don't mean to be offensive but stop playing dumb! The link keeps getting removed not because the article was associated to a banned user, who may or may not be a good acquaintance or even friend of yours.

I am the one who keeps removing the mention of "cosmotheism" from the Article and will keep doing so every single day if necessary.

These statements are offensive. Please review Wikipedia:Civility, and refrain from such statements in the future. You do not own this, or any other page, and will not be the sole decision maker. It would appear you are a relatively new user. Please view this as a positive learning experience.

Sam [Spade] 23:50, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Spade, you wrote me the following in my talk page:

These statements are offensive. Please review Wikipedia:Civility, and refrain from such statements in the future.

I clearly said that my first comment was not meant to be offensive. If it was, I apologize. However, I was making a valid point since you seem to be feigning ignorance of an issue that was directed to you and fully addressed on a previous occasion.

You do not own this, or any other page, and will not be the sole decision maker.

I have and will never make such a claim. I was simply stating my intention to preserve the integrity of a particular page I care about.

It would appear you are a relatively new user. Please view this as a positive learning experience.

Whatever...

Loremaster 17:44, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

If you intend to "preserve the integrity" of the page in a manner in accordance with policy, than you are required to discuss reverts and other controversial edits which you make to it, without making personal attacks of other acts of incivility. Sam [Spade] 17:49, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I have discussed the controversial reverts and edits on several occasions. As for making personal attacks, I've already explained myself so this "dispute" is over for me. Loremaster 18:00, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Intention is not the key factor in a personal attack. See that you do not do it again. Using all bold font is unfriendly, BTW. Sam [Spade] 18:05, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Please read my last update to the Talk:Transhumanism page Loremaster 23:06, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Re: Welcome to the Wikipedia

Thank you, Mr. Spade. Edgarde 18:35, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome message. I've been making edits for over a year, [1] though I only created a user account for myself about 25 June 2004. --Jim Henry 20:48, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the note

plain_regular_ham 16:40, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Its what I do :) 16:46, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks Sam, I appreciate it, I also use the program Sam Spade, if I have any questions I'll be sure to ask. If you need anything from me (computer related or whatnot) I'd be happy to help, have a good one. User:Tajas1 (added after by Sam [Spade] 22:53, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC))

How kind. Maybe you might be interested in improving the Sam Spade article? I don't know much of anything about the computer program myself, what does it do? Sam [Spade] 22:53, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Immortality

I saw you had been having some problems with transhumanism. I think you might want to take a look at Immortality as well, which is also a featured article candidate, just to make sure NPOV is followed. Best wishes, [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 17:19, 2004 Aug 7 (UTC)

That article (Immortality) is going to take alot of work, and is quite far off from FAC material. I plan to work on it periodically, but am not terribly optomistic due to the intensity of obvious POV I am finding.

Would you mind lending a hand Re: Talk:Transhumanism / Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Loremaster? I understand this is not an area in which you possess a technical expertise, but IMO the problem is much more one of user conduct than technical content. Thank you for your thoughtful note, Sam [Spade] 20:26, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I'll take a look, but I don't know how much help I'll be--philosophy not my strong point, I'd rather not have an argument unless I actually knew what I was talking about. Best, and good luck in the election, [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 14:37, 2004 Aug 8 (UTC)

Haha!, good point! "I'd rather not have an argument unless I actually knew what I was talking about" I wish everyone were so thoughtful ;) Thanks again, Sam [Spade] 18:38, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome

Thanks for the welcome. I have made some comments on talk pages before and signed them with my email address. All the administrative stuff seems very complex, and seems to have almost no effect as far as preventing people from acting like goons. Weed Harper 14:10, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Well sometimes it’s the administrators who act like the goons ;) All in all tho, I think the process is reasonably well written. Have a look at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution if your having a problem with a particularly intractable user. Glad to have you, Sam [Spade] 18:37, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

post-Soviet Russia

Your objection to the post-Soviet Russia article on FAC is transparently personal and in bad faith. (Yet, I am not the sole author of the article.) This shows a total disregard for all the work that A. Shetsen, Andris, Dan Gardner, Paranoid, and others have put into the article, including all the work that they've devoted to bringing it up to featured status. Furthermore, the motivation behind my nomination was a desire to help build a community of users working on Wiki's so far underdeveloped articles on postcommunist Russia, not personal valediction. A feature on the main page will bring in yet more users into the fold on post-Soviet Russia. People interested in Russia will see the article on the main page, start editing the article, and start working on all related articles linked to the page that are still languishing as stubs (e.g., all the articles on the Russian prime ministers, the oligarchs, parties, political institutions). Please find a way of dealing with users you dislike working with (Loremaster, AndyL, me, etc.) that do not thward efforts to help develop the encyclopedia. 172 20:52, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

How does me complaining about style errors and lack of prose interfere w your ability to improve the encyclopdia? Sam [Spade] 21:16, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Don't play dumb. You wouldn't have looked at the article had I not been involved. Like your request for arbitration against me and your request for comment page against Loremaster, this is just a part of your pattern of behavior of stalking users and doing whatever you can to get back at them [2]. 172 22:13, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Also, I know full well that even if links are added gratuitously, your objection will not go away. The objection only stemmed from my involvement in the page. 172 23:01, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Havn't you noticed that I am regularly involved on FAC? Part of the RfAR you have against involves my involvement in the Gay bath house attempt. What actually happened (as if it matters) is that I saw your comment on Mav's talk page, and decided to read the article. So, in the sense that your involvement made me curious, you are correct. But it was while reading the article that I noticed the awkward prose, and unusual linking. Russia is the 1st word, but its not linked? The first usage of the word is the one to link. And what kind of prose is "(For backgrounding see the main article on the dissolution of the Soviet Union.)" or "The conversion of the world's largest state-controlled economy into a market-oriented economy would have been extraordinarily difficult regardless of the policies chosen. (For backgrounding on state economic planning in the former Soviet Union, see Economy of the Soviet Union.) The policies chosen for this difficult transition were (1) liberalization, (2) stabilization, and (3) privatization, which were based on the neoliberal "Washington Consensus" of the IMF, World Bank, and U.S. Treasury Department."? Thats no way to make links, nor to explain things in a readable fashion. I'd spend some time working on it, but you;d just revert me. Sam [Spade] 23:09, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Arbcom questions

/Arbcom questions

Why Sam is Right Wing (a list by Stopthebus18

1) Pro - Meritocracy: Most left wing ideologies do not support any kind of heirarchical structures for insitutions. I myself do not believe in Meritocracy because it basically says that those a the top are at the top because they are the most capable or most fit. Bullshit. This completely ignores the fact that not everyone is born into equal circumstances. A kid from Harlem and a kid born on the upper west side in Manhattan do not have the same oppurtunities. The kid from the upper west side has thousands more chances to suceed, most of them completely unrelated to how fit that person is. What I'm saying is all that meritocracy and heirarchy do is enforce structures where the people at the top stay at the top and those not at the top get fucked. It's wrong and evil and has been used to justify evertyhing from Fascism to Reagan's so called "homeless by choice" approach to fighting poverty.

2) Pro - Non racial eugenics: When was eugenics ever a good idea? I doubt you'll find any lefties who even consider eugenics a legitimate theory much less one that should be furthered. This I find kind of frightening to be honest. People (including our country) have done horrible things in the name of eugenics.

3)Anti-equality, anti-affirmative action, anti-choice, anti-communism: Well you'll never find a left winger against equality. I love equality. I wish we loved in a society where everybody was equal. Anti-AA? Nope sorry, lefties arent against AA. I'm not going to argue with you on this one because I don't want to get into it. Anti-choice? Nope wrong again. I'm the most hardcore feminist male ever. And you better believe that most leftists view a woman's right to choose as something that they will fight to the grave over. Your stance is decidedly right wing. The last one, anti-communism actually kind of baffles me. If this were the cold war I'd understand. But whats the point of even saying your anti-communist now? There's that sad guy in Cuba who plays dress up in military fatigues and that crazy midget in North Korea. If you're gonna say you're anti-communism why not say you're anti-trancedentalist or anti-British loyalist. It's such an outdated idea. Oh and then why not say you're anti-fascism as well, fascism is a horrible ideology that killed millions of people as well. You're not pro-fascist are you? StoptheBus18 16:02, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)