Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names): Difference between revisions

Archive

Archive of discussions up to 1 Dec '06

Update

I updated the proposal according to the Clarification Needed section above. I did not include that a Names/Etymology section should be created when there are at least three alternate names. How do we want to incorporate that into the proposal? Olessi 20:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

We recommend that this be done if there are at least three alternate names, or there is something notable about the names themselves. ? For what I mean see Pécs#names, although there is probably a better example. Septentrionalis 23:52, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I like that formulation. A minor point: I think it would be more aesthetic if the obligatory sentence in the lead is not "known also by several alternative names^Names" but "known also by several alternative names". How about that? Tankred 17:29, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

That's fine by me. While the alternate names in the lead are usually italicized, are there any objections to bolding alternate names in the separate Names section? Having multiple things bolded in the lead looks awkward to me (Casimir IV Jagiellon), while having a mix of Roman type and italic type (Banská Bystrica) is a little jarring on the eyes (in my opinion, of course). This is not necessarily something that should be clarified in the proposal, but just an opinion about presentation. Olessi 18:07, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Too much bold anywhere can be jarring; see Democratic-Republican Party (United States). There's already language about using judgment to avoid garishness; do we need to strengthen it? Septentrionalis 18:28, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

On a related matter, biographical articles quite often use the English name in the title, and the local or official name in bold. In biographies, there is usually only one local name, and the English name is a translation. Do we want to encourage this for cases like Marseilles, where there is only one local name? (Of course, this supposes that the city will be moved to its English name; <sigh>). Septentrionalis 18:28, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Manual of Style

I see from discussions that this intended guideline is not only about the name of the article (a thing rightfully in purview of a WP:NC guideline) but also about texts inside the article itself. That however belongs to WP:MS and should not be taken out from Manuals of Style. People look for text writing guidelines at MS and its sub-pages (such as Wikipedia:Proper_names). And they should find all of it there, not in "some other places" of guidelines. Besides, is this thinking above checked against current MS guidelines and their systematics and logic? Is this discussion announced in MS project pages? This must not go against already agreed MS instructions, and also this should comply with how things are instructed in various MS documents. Shilkanni 18:31, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

It would seem simpler to add a cross-reference from MOS, which is all Wikipedia:Proper names seems to have. This proposal is rather more detailed than Wikipedia:Proper names#place names, but entirely consistent with it. Septentrionalis 18:39, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

One thing missing

That is, inscructions on whether or not to use transliterations in addition to non-Roman scripts for foreign language names. I believe it is vital! If I am serching for Tshernovits or Chernovtsy and find Chernivtsi instead, I will want to know why! I might not even be aware that the city has more than one name and the one I'm looking for isn't official anymore. I might not even be aware that the page I am redirected to is the same city! If a user can't read non-Roman scripts they will have no idea what this the foreign names say or how to pronouce them. I mention this city in particular because it has many foreign / historical names and the issues of transliteration has been contentious of late. It needs to be adressed. Thanks. Kevlar67 04:07, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Especially important for those scripts which are not universally supported, and show up as little boxes. Septentrionalis 18:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

That's already dictated by Wikipedia:Accessibility; but it would certainly help to repeat it here. -- Visviva 10:06, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Is this soup yet?

The page has been stable for over a week; the only even mildly disapproving comment has been that we are overlapping Wikipedia:Proper names and WP:MOS. I added comments to their talk pages, and nobody has objected, here or there. If someone wants to make this a {{guideline}}, I will support the change; this looks like consensus to me. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:43, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Is there some kind of voting to be invoked (and you woudn't prefer to keep the voting mainly within the gography project community), I gladly add my 'Aye' to fixing this as a WP convention.--JoergenB 18:09, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

No more votes; all we need, acoording to Wikipedia:How_to_create_policy, is to change the tag on the page if we have consensus, which I would accept this as being. I'd prefer not to, because I plan to invoke this guideline when the tag is switched. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:11, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

For the same reason while I see we are ready, I'd prefer for somebody else to do the honors...-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  23:16, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Done. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Bath

Our lists are being invoked as to whether Bath, the city in England , should be disambiguated, and if so, to what. It's a complex question; the relevant administrative county boundaries have been redrawn twice, and the old counties are still used for ceremonial purposes.

Do we want to say that three encyclopedias determine whether Bath should be Bath, Somerset, when they don't have our needs for disambiguation; or do we not? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:26, 17 December 2006 (UTC)