Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Red army crimes in Lithuania

Red army crimes in Lithuania

POV pushing arbitrary half-cooked chaotic collection of events involving Red Army. If any, the crimes are that of the Soviet Union. Army was but its instrument. We don't write articles "crimes committed by Maxim Gun". `'Miikka 23:11, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or Redirect to Occupation of Baltic states - the topic might be notable but the article itself is completly useless Alex Bakharev 23:48, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep and rewrite. It's obviously a direct translation from a Latvian article, by someone who doesn't know colloquial English. I'd like to give it a fix-up before it's deleted, including finding citations. A lot of Soviet history went unreported prior to the end of the Cold War. I agree the title should be fixed to something else... suggestions? Mandsford 00:31, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- Before you dive headlong into rewriting I suggest you to ponder over the idea that the whole Soviet state was kind of criminal. How will you separate crimes of Red Army per se from its ingamous activities resulting from esecution of state orders? the current article is a mess and nothing to keep. If you know where to start, please start a new one, and with correct title, too: Red Army crimes in Lithuania. You may also want to read Red Army atrocities. And since you seem cannot tell Latvia from Lithuania, you better stay away from the topic. A cooperation of a hater and an ignoramus is a dangerous mixture. `'Miikka 00:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed... we won't cooperate on anything for the time being; I admit I am kind of hateful. I disagree with your assertion that the whole Soviet state was criminal... there were atrocities, and a great deal of secrecy until recently. In wasn't until 1988 that Moscow acknowledged the Katyn Forest massacre. However, you're right... I said Latvian instead of Lithuanian. I almost said "Latveria" which was the fictional kingdom ruled by Dr. Viktor Von Doom in the Fantastic Four comics. My lame excuse is... that I thought that the article (about Lithuania, of course) was written in Latvian. Dang thing is that I accused the writer of not knowing colloquial English, and turns out that I don't know the Lithuanian language. Mandsford 04:54, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I must intervene here: Miikka never accused you of being hateful. "Cooperation of a hater and an ignoramus" meant "Cooperation of User:Ttturbo and you". I suppose you mixed up the words cooperation and combination. Note by the way that if this is a literal translation (via some translation site on the internet) as you suggested it is arguably a copy violation, and qualifies for speedy deletion. --Pan Gerwazy 10:07, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You don't have to intervene here. Mansford looks like a smart guy: he cleverly turned the table to say that it is me who is ignoramus :-) `'Miikka 15:54, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletions. -- Carom 00:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete after merging with Red Army atrocities or Red Army atrocities (WWII) ( and I must be forgetting some) which is where this belongs. Note that the author of this article, first tried to insert this "info" (I am using a neutral term here) in Red Army, was told that there were other places to do that, but did not seem to like that advice. --Pan Gerwazy 00:50, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Red Army atrocities (WWII) . Bigdaddy1981 01:18, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, hopelessly biased. MaxSem 05:41, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, but stick anything which can be sourced (the fact that there are sources means that a Lithuanian-speaking editor might be able to find something in them) in any of the articles mentioned above, assuming they're not there at the moment. I don't see a good reason to have a bunch of articles about the Red Army doing nasty things in Country X, Country Y and Country Z. If the list were unusually long, there might be a point, but this doesn't seem to be. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 11:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Collection of loosely related events assembled here (or on Lithuanian Wiki) in a way fitting someone's ideological predispositions. Some events (mandatory service in Soviet Army is not crime unless the term is extended to cover almost everything). Last but not least - during wars massacres and other actions labeled as war crimes are rather norm than an exception. Wikipedia should cover this by overview articles, not by endless lists. Pavel Vozenilek 15:12, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete perhaps some of this information could be put in relevant sections of the relevant articles, but with this set of information, it does not warrant its own article. Bassgoonist 19:52, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Delete, nothing but a Propaganda piece. No mention of the fact that the Lithuanians actively supported the German invasion of Russia. Tovojolo 20:26, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]