Talk:Vacuous truth

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ryguasu (talk | contribs) at 12:05, 26 August 2002. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

I usually see "vacuous truth" in the context of logical implication. But I guess it results whenever you have:

  • a mental model of something
  • a corresponding, isomorphic formal model
  • the freedom, in the mental model, to leave truth values undefined
  • the necessity, in the formal model, to define truth values

Some other examples would be good. What other operators/connectives/etc. generate vacuous truth?

I guess the concept "vacuous falsity" also exist, though, for some reason, vacuous truth is more prevelant.

...connections to the concept of closure

...like 0!=1

--Ryguasu

That 0!=1 is actually quite logical. (I assume you mean 0 factorial) -- Tarquin

The whole thing sounds pretty vacuous to me (see talk:surrealism). --Ed Poor


No, this is mathematics. It's real. There's just parts of it that only make sense after the imbibing of certain quantities of alcohol... -- Tarquin
I'd like to better understand the comment. Is Ed Poor suggesting the article "aims at producing irrational fantasies or hallucinatory and dream-like effects" (from surrealism)? If so, I guess it is a form of criticism, because, whether or not vacuous truth is confusing, an article about it ideally should not be. Unfortunately, I think the concept is hard to pin down in its full glory, so it might take several iterations to get it right. --Ryguasu


I think Ed is just kidding... ;-) Are the two concepts of "false implies anything" and "anything is true for the empty set" really that closely related? -- Tarquin

I confess that I was just clowning around: the surrealism article seemed so surrealistic that when I saw vacuous truth right beside it on Recent Changes, I couldn't resist. Frankly, I don't understand either article, maybe washing my brain with alcohol would help? ;-) --Ed Poor
Ok, I'm glad we're just laughing at one another, rather than anything too serious. As for the relatedness of those concepts, Tarquin, I can say at least this much: they both have the quality that you could legitimately "legislate in several manners". That is, there is certainly a reasonable point of view from which "nothing is true for the empty set", rather than everything. This seems remarkably parallel to the point of view from which "false implies nothing". I guess I need to think some more about whether "vacuous truth" is the best name for what is in common between them.
Then there's the standard connection between logical implication and set theory: possible world semantics. Here, A -> B is isomorphic to "the set of conceivable worlds in which A holds" is a subset of "the set of conceivable worlds in which B holds". This gives a justification for why 3>3 implies anything; the set of conceivable worlds where 3>3 is said to be the null set, and the null set is a subset of every set. Therefore, by the isomorphism, 3>3 implies anything. I'm not sure exactly how this is related, but I can't help feel that it is. --Ryguasu