Isn't it rather insulting to the millions of people who still actively worship them to lump the Hindu deities in with the defunct "mythological" ones?
- On the contrary, it is your remark -- however well-intentioned -- that implicitly insults those people who believed in/worshiped other deities. I checked earlier versions of the article and I don't think the article characterizes any of these deities in a disparaging way. I personally would not want to call them "defunct" because that word has insulting connotations. It is true that these cultures have passed away, but that will happen to all of us. In fact, most humans who have ever lived are dead, and I would never disparage them or their beliefs for that reason alone.
- I admit I think it is strange that the list of Deities does not include God/El/Allah etc., and you might perhaps constructively insist that it do so. SR
So put it there?
There's no generally understood insulting connotation of "defunct" that I'm aware of. It just means "dead", or "no longer working" as far as I know. Sure, mythologies are just religions that no-one believes in any more, and the time will come when Christianity, for instance, is one of those too. Note that the thing called "Hindu" here is by far and away the most resilient system of beliefs the world has yet seen.
Actually, people still believe in the "dead" religions. Including, but not limited to Greek, Roman, Norman religions and their gods and goddesses. Personally, I was initially very offended at the distintions between "Mythology" and "Religion" but I've come to understand why people make the assumptions they do.
In my understanding of Christianity, the name of God has been "God," and God's relationship to Jesus Christ is not a simple as what's listed above: God is actually the Holy Trinity--God, the Son, the Holy Ghost. Jesus Christ is just the physical and spiritual manifestation of the Son, not the Father as well. So I think the above is technically incorrect.
I think I understand your view, but there are very many different Christian views on what God is. The Catholic Church, for example, holds the view you state above, as I'm sure you know. But nearly all Protestants would say, as they do say, "Jesus Christ is the Lord our God." I think nearly all Catholics would agree with that, too. I guess most Christians would say that Jesus Christ is divine, and as such, "Jesus Christ" is at least one of the names of God. --LMS
- Most Protestants still believe in the Holy Trinity, although their beliefs may be less fully articulated. Still, this is not an entry on different names of God, but on different gods. As it is, the format of the article suggests that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three distinct deities as different from each other as Odin, Thor and Loki. Further, there is the massive disclaimer that unitarian monotheists find trinitarianism "either polytheistic or incomprehensible". This is not NPOV... unless we also want to add to each polytheistic entry the particular shortcomings that other religious groups find with their theologies. More could certainly be said about whether the Hindu gods are distinct gods or the same god or part of Everything, and whether that view makes sense to anyone else. Better to state each position as that religion states it, attributing it appropriately so Wikipedia doesn't itself get religion. Wesley
I'm not too sure "Jesus Christ" should be listed as a name of God as such. Sure, "Jesus Christ" is a name of God in most Christian groups (since most Christian groups believe Jesus is God). But I think "Jesus Christ" refers to a particular aspect of the Christian God; "Jesus Christ" isn't just God, he's a person; while "Yahweh" or "Adonai" or "Elohim" are primarily just God, not a person. (Though maybe after theological reflection its different.) -- Simon J Kissane
Since I'm Christian, I find it a bit twisty to say Jesus isn't JUST God. God has multiple names, and Jesus Christ is one of them. Because of Jesus' life, we know God is a person. Jesus is the Word of God, incarnate. Hmm. this is hard to explain. Jesus is as much of God as can possibly be human, much as a Circle is as much of a Sphere as could possibly exist in two dimensions. Anyway, the Holy Spirit is a person too. I make a distinction between a human and a person.
Can someone expand on the Trinity? People talk about the Father and the Son, but not the Holy Ghost. Can we get an entry on that? -- ansible
- See Trinity. :-)
Multiple names: Some of the more ancient gods have multiple names, based on transliteration from the original language to modern language. One example would be the ancient Egyptian Set = Seth = Sutekh. What's the best way to list these?
- List them exactly as you do here. One of them should have double brackets, so that an entry on them can eventually be created. The rest can be without such brackets. RK
--- This page is getting really long and it has the potential to get much longer. Shouldn't we split it up? Danny
Are the Japanese deities still worshiped? I have no clue about the Shinto religion -- Zoe
"Wesley (adding 'pre-Christian' to some headings as appropriate, for consistency)"
Wesley, I respect your work but I dislike the implication that Christianity should be considered the appropriate yardstick for discussing religion. Can we NPOV this any? -- Respectfully awaiting your reply.
- Well, several of the entries seem to be groups based on ethnicity or culture, like the Finns and the Celts for example. The article already had "pre-Christian Finnish gods" or something similar, so I just added that same prefix to the other groups that were once polytheistic but later adopted Christianity en masse, so to speak. If it seems more neutral, we could change all the "pre-Christian" headings to "ancient", or just leave it off. I do think the fact that these groups converted to Christianity is historically significant, but my religion probably inflates its significance in my eyes. Wesley
The perhaps-more-NPOV term that occurs to me is "traditional". I don't think it's perfect, but maybe OK. What do you think?
- I don't think it would work for the Greeks. I spent a week at prayers at a Greek Orthodox Church last Spring, and for them Greek Orthodoxy is very traditional, and a huge part of being Greek culturally and ethnically. Today, Greek Orthodox Christianity is the traditional Greek religion, and has been for at least 1,600 years. For groups that aren't really around anymore, like the Celts, I'm not sure how you pick which is traditional. Wesley
Can we include 'pre-Bahai' to some of these entries as well?
Also, as far as the 'trinity' goes, the interpretation of Hinduism given in the Bhagavad Gita espouses a similar philosophy regarding god - God is many, and one. If the Christian Trinity is considered monotheistic, according to this interpretation, the Hindu tradition should be considered monotheistic as well. The inclusion of the various Hindu deities without comment on this view of God/divinity is therefore inconsistent with the discussion given to Christianity. Graft 17:48 Oct 1, 2002 (UTC)
- If any of the people groups mentioned later converted to Bahai en masse, that may very well be appropriate. Or we could drop all the "pre-Foo" and "ancient" monikers. I agree that Hinduism isn't polytheistic in the same way some of these other religions are; it isn't exactly the same as the Christian trinity, but there are strong similarities. More discussion would be fine IMO. Wesley
Some Christians deny the unity of the "three monotheistic religions", saying that Jesus is not Allah (implying that Muslims are not worshipping God). I'm not sure I understand this POV, but I heard it on a Christian radio station last week. Before I add a fly to the ointment, I'd like someone who knows more than I do to comment.
- Well, they are three different religions with distinct religious beliefs. Muslims would agree that Jesus is not Allah, as far as I know. What was the question again? Wesley
- LOL. "Because all men are brothers..." --Ed Poor
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I'm doing some pruning now. Some of the mythologies skip really important gods and include minor ones (and some list mythological mortals). Also adding some other mythologies. This list is going to get real long and is probably going to need constant maintenance. I'm going to eliminate the paragraphs on Sumerian gods; this article is supposed to be a list, not a description of each god ("god of trees" or something takes up little space, but not the paragraphs on Sumerian gods). User:Tokerboy