Wikipedia

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of left-wing organizations in the USA

< Wikipedia:Articles for deletion
This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Dpbsmith (talk | contribs) at 01:23, 14 September 2004 ("The way I decide" seems '''sub'''jective). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

This doesn't seem to be anything other than a hate list for American NeoCons. It is not a list of organizations that would consider themselves left wing. The inclusion of Atheists in it is an example of the inclusion of NeoCon hate rather than actual left wing credentials.

(page added to VfD by Irate) Darksun

I'd like to respond by noting that the methodology is now explained on the talk page. Contrary to the statements below, it isn't POV but objective and factual. AaronSw 23:39, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I would characterize a sentence beginning "The way I decide..." as subjective... [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 01:23, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. This page can only ever be POV. Fscking scum sucking neocons would be my POV, but there you go. --Tagishsimon
  • I'm sitting on the fence on this one. Neutrality is an issue, as is labelling organisations left wing when they do not consider themselves that. Perhaps trim it down to political parties and activist groups that label themselves as left wing (or when this fact is self evident). Darksun 19:30, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  • Part of the problem is that defining groups to be definitely "left wing" or "right wing" is inherently POV, unless the groups use the terms for themselves. Some of the sublists might be viable listing articles by themselves (lists of parties, or groups that promote particular issues or positions, e.g.), but having one whole list under this title is POV. It's not really a useful resource in such a form. The list also has some questionable entries- as pointed out on the article's Talk page, some of the groups on the list identify themselves as nonpartisan, and some of them aren't even active organizations at all. For now, I'll vote a weak delete. -FZ 19:45, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Addendum- Peoples' opinions of the US political spectrum or the groups involved aside, the question is whether the article is in any way useful. If it's just a question of inaccurate entries, go edit. That doesn't answer the question of whether we can ever agree on anything to put on this list. I think it's a lost cause- delete. -FZ 20:33, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  • needs POV edit, e.g. the Democratic Party is not left-wing, it's centre-right, cleanup rather than delete though. Dunc_Harris|☺ 19:49, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. As far as I'm concerned, the Democratic Party is a rightwing organization. And the American Library Association?! Please. RickK 19:52, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)
    • Probably because it was librarians who persuaded Michael Moore's publishers to publish Stupid White Men ;-) DJ Clayworth 21:46, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • I don't see the ALA listed, just their Office for Intellectual Freedom.
  • Delete. Worthless. Everybody's definition of left-wing and right-wing differs. Besides, left vs. right is an overly simplistic way of categorizing ideology. Livajo 19:55, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
In that case, we should delete left-wing and right-wing. RadicalSubversiv E 00:08, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
My point is not that generalizations cannot be made that give "left-wing" and "right-wing" valid meaning; my point is that it is too vague to be able to draw a line and say "these organizations are on this side of the line and those are on the other side". Livajo 00:16, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  • Habitat for Humanity? Doctors without Borders? Someone needs a fresh supply of tinfoil in their hat. Delete. DJ Clayworth 21:11, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Informative and valuable. All of these Deletes seem to be based on misconceptions that have since been dispelled. AaronSw 23:39, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • This comment is by the main author of the article. -- Jmabel 00:57, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep, hesitantly. This is a legitimate topic, but the content needs serious work (see my comment on the talk page). The scope ought to be narrowed to organizations which are obviously left-wing (not vaguely serving of what George Lakoff considers "liberal values"). RadicalSubversiv E 00:08, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • If you can point me to a better summary of liberal and conservative values, I'd be happy to use it. AaronSw 00:25, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

User:AaronSw deleted the "npov" header off the page on the specious grounds that there is no discussion about it on the Talk page. What the h*ll does he think the discussion not only on THAT page and THIS page is all about? I love his reasoning that "equality" and "reason" are liberal values. RickK 23:41, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I didn't see any discussion on the talk page mentioning NPOV, although after reading this page I can see how you could read that into it. AaronSw 00:22, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  • Neutral. I could imagine a useful article on the topic. This isn't it. I guess I'll go there and edit a bit ot try to improve it, but I won't cry any tears if it is deleted. -- Jmabel 00:07, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. I'm now convinced that either this page is inherently POV or some editors will be so determined to make it so as to make it impossible to maintain in an NPOV manner. -- Jmabel 00:50, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete it a lot: First, "liberal" and "left" are not synonyms, ok? Second, this list is nonsense. Third, any list like this must be nonsense. "The left" is, in the US and Europe, rive gauche: the left bank. I.e. it is the Marxist side. "Liberal," on the other hand, means "toward freedom." Political liberals in the US, from the time of Emerson on (do some reading, folks), have argued that the status quo can always be made better. "Conservative" means "maintaining the status quo." That's why "The Conservative Revolution" of Ronald Reagan was an oxymoron. This US-only blindness, confusion, and partisan nonsense cannot ever be passed off as true. Geogre 00:34, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • While disagreeing with most of what Geogre just said, I concur with his objection to conflating "left" and "liberal". Anyone not clear on this should read Liberalism and Liberalism in the United States. -- Jmabel 00:59, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. I can only think of one objective, verifiable, NPOV basis for such a page, and that would be to organizations that choose to identify themselves as left-wing. AaronSw's own statement of his "objective and factual methodology" is "The way I decide what organizations go on this page is by looking at the values of the liberal conceptual system (detailed in Moral Politics) and seeing whether an organization: a) supports those values, and b) is not ideologically conservative." That isn't very objective, and the presence of a personal pronoun in the description of the methodology doesn't help matters. BTW including the American Friends Service Committee (the Quaker peace organization) on a list of "left-wing organizations" is very disturbing to me, although I'm sure it has been called much worse (in military conflicts it has a very bad habit of providing humanitarian assistance to both sides.) [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 01:19, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_left-wing_organizations_in_the_USA&oldid=5867329"