Bishonen

Thanks for the cool cat

No problem! Not only the neatest title, but a pretty cool office, too. I think we need something like that in the States! -Seth Mahoney 16:53, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

Vandals of Sandviken

Hi, David, I don't know if you're watching those anon Sandviken kids' talk pages, so this is just to let you know that I've left a message for both 81.227.148.223 (talk) and 164.4.31.79 (talk). Best regards, Bishonen 13:42, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. I bet you're right that a ban would do little good...I just hope they'll listen to reason. I'm considering calling them up by phone. They've made it pretty obvious who they are, and it wasn't a problem to find likely suspects in the white pages. Perhaps a talk in real life would make them understand... David Remahl 16:58, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Most excellent :-)

Vandals of Sandviken

Ok, We will stop vandalise Wikipedia

Best Regards

Students from Sandviken

Great. David Remahl 17:58, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Oh, hey, guys, yes, that is great. Remember I meant it about you being welcome to contribute. Bishonen 18:05, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Actually, they figured out I knew Swedish by themselves. I didn't get a chance to call them. So it was all your doing :-). David Remahl 19:12, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

:-) I bet they regretted giving us all that fine free Swedish info in Robin Karlsson. Mind you, I knew before then that they were posting from a school, it was obvious. Didn't know which school, though. Btw, I have a nephew by marriage named Niklas Modigh, but he's only seven, so I soon stopped suspecting him. ;-) Bishonen 19:35, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

redstar2000

Thanks for your comments, and thank you for catching that problem. I'm doing my best write now to expand on his history and work with the SDS in the hopes that people will accept it. Unfortunately, I only joined a week or so before we found this article, so I'm pretty sure my objections are going to be ignored. Would you consider voting on it once I get that history section expanded?

Thanks anyways :) --Che y Marijuana 22:23, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC)

Your vote will count less because of your being a new user, but not necessarily your comments, Che. I'm sure voters will be interested in those, especially ... well, I hope you'll take it in the spirit that it's meant if I tell you that you made kind of a bad start by telling Terrapin and Geogre they stink. (Well, technically, you told them their comments stink. ;-)) If you wanted to apologize for that, it might make people listen better still, but it's up to you entirely — I'm not trying to tell you what to do. Redstar2000 is interesting, but I'm not sure about the notability. I will keep an eye on how you develop it, and wish you luck. Bishonen 23:34, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Woops, I didn't even remember that. Yeah, like I said I'm new here. What I meant was that they all came on talking about "proletarian vanity" and debating his marxism, which has nothing to do with the article. I will however go and make some appologies--Che y Marijuana 23:38, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC)

Sidney

Ok, the VfD debate for that article has long rolled off. The article was deleted before the VfD templates were in use. It turns out that it was deleted not for vanity, as Anthony claims, but for copyright violations. Indeed, the new article contained copyright violations, too, in that it lifted huge quotes. Those are being removed. The figure is terrifically minor, but it may well be that it would be kept. Since the deletion was for copyvio, if the text of the current one is not copyvio, it is not appropriate for a speedy. It's not a great article, though. Also, you couldn't have seen the VfD decision -- it's gone -- or the dispensation, since that was only in the deletion log, which is available only to administrators. Geogre 15:22, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Well, the people who are watching A. are all over, and I'm letting them know about this case. It took a ton of work to find anything on this particular article because of how long ago it was. Thing is, if the deletion vote has rolled off, but we know it was deleted, I think it can be speedy deleted. The question is whether the user RK is the one who recreated it. A. has come back trying to rally every discontented person, even though none of them are discontented the same way, for an assault, and that is a danger. You've seen the mess I'm in on VfD. Again, it's a kind of "We'll fix them" thing. A. can sometimes say a valid thing. Fine. Then, though, he decides that no one else has anything to say and starts acting upon it. That's not valid. That's vandalism or trolling. Geogre 18:11, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)

You should note that Morgenbesser died August 1 and the article was created August 5. It wasn't some grand conspiracy. Someone recognized that the famous professor deserved an article, probably after hearing of his death. anthony (see warning) 12:04, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, Anthony, but of course I noticed the timing of the article creation, especially since the external links were mainly to recent brief obituaries. A grand conspiracy theory literally never occurred to me — I always assumed that the death and the obits were the reason Gzornenplatz created the article in the first place. Bishonen 12:19, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

- You're not the one with the conspiracy theory, then. I was referring to: "The question is whether the user RK is the one who recreated it." anthony (see warning) 12:24, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  - Oh, right. I didn't see that you were talking to Geogre on my page, but now that I read the whole context, I do see it. Better talk to him directly, if you want. Incidentally, I asked Geogre what "user RK" above stands for, but he missed replying (because we were mainly talking about unconnected things), and I still don't know what it refers to. Something to do with you, it seems ... don't get it, though. Bishonen 12:35, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- I was talking to both of you. And what would be better is if you two wouldn't get together behind my back trying to get me in trouble. User RK most likely refers to User:RK. anthony (see warning) 12:51, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I don't see the point of the user RK, reference, then. It would be better if you didn't obsess about old stuff, too — see the date on the message you replied to? I got the copyvio issue wrong, I misread, and I apologized, all of it a while back, what more can I do? I'll also add that my opinion of you has gone up since then, Anthony (not that I suppose my opinion is anything that keeps you awake nights). I've come to appreciate that you say things because you mean them, and in my book that's not trolling. Bishonen 13:02, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- I didn't expect this to become a long conversation. I just wanted to note a couple facts for anyone reading this page. If it were my talk page I'd just delete the whole thing, as it is old stuff which is already resolved. But some people don't like to do that. anthony (see warning) 13:27, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Reverse sexism

Thanks for the note, and I've read your new article. Whilst appreciating that this is democracy at work, I still feel it is wrong to have an article devoted to a meaningless/misused phrase such as this. Personally, I would prefer a redirect - if we have to have anything at all. Deb 18:08, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)

BTW, I changed my vote on it after your revision. I thought you did a good job of reporting on what people mean when they use the term, without endorsing it. Geogre 18:16, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

If you're awake now

You shouldn't be. You'd be better off reading that chapter in the morning. Thanks for the help with my unruly Talk page. BTW, danny is starting a Wikipedia book club. We read a novel every week and then make sure it has a good article. He wants to start with Pulitzer Prize winners that we don't cover. As he points out, we have pretty much every Hugo Award winner, but massive gaps in the Pulitzers. (Since this is American Lit., I'm a little nervous. I don't like American Lit. much.) Geogre 00:21, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

re: Reposted copyvio

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression when I chose not to reply to your earlier comments on my Talk page. There was no personal intent. As I said in another thread recently, I connect via dial-up and have to be fairly choosy about what I reply to or I'll be at it all night. I'll always answer a specific question though.

From your evidence, it sounds like you have a good case. That's evidence that would generally be well received on VfD and might even be strong enough to start a thread in Requests for Arbitration. I'd ask others for advice on that, though. I've never participated in an Arbitration process. You're right that it may just stir up emotions without really changing behaviors. The best answer may be a simple renomination. Trust that there are more of us who care and who follow the rules than there are who choose to break them. Rossami 01:52, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

A question you asked Geogre

While not explicitly saying a reason is "required", "When expressing an opinion, please include your opinion, your reasoning, and sign with ~~~~..." certainly seems to me to imply that is the case--it doesn't make any distinction about it being optional, but instead gives it the same standing as the 'opinion' and sig, both of which are clearly required (at least for the vote to count). Niteowlneils 02:06, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Well, I was referring to that bit at the top of the page, "Please include your opinon." I.e. just putting your name with "keep" or "delete" seems to me to be on par with being an IP voting. If you have no reasoning, you have negated one half of the duty, just as if you have no signature you have negated the other. Geogre 16:09, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Viktor speaks

David Remhal got a request to phone Viktor, subject of the vandalism, and he did. For follow up, see what he has to say (as user chmod007). It happened while he was on IRC when I was, so he mentioned it there. Geogre 16:12, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I did, yes. He left a note on my talk page and also sent me a mail. I'll ask if I can forward it to you. Basically, he is very concerned that the vandals will bring bad publicity for the school. Apparently they have some kind of IT agreement with Sandvik which could be threatened by such publicity. He's also uneasy about the fact that some of our good-faith discussions implicate him (Viktor) and his friends (for the main part, Niklas) as possible vandals.

He asked if it was possible to remove (edit out) the school and their names from the past discussions. I said that it was probably possible, but that I would have to consult everyone else involved first. I also informed him that even though it is edited out, it will still stay in the page histories. He agreed that wouldn't be a problem, considering that they're not spidered by Google and other search engines.

Furthermore, I told him about the related vandalism on sv, and he said he'd look into it. He claims that he has no knowledge of who really committed the vandalism. — David Remahl 16:54, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hi, David. Yes, indeed, the school and the individual students get to use Sandvik AB's net, and it was a very stupid thing the two students did who posted vandal edits and articles directly from it. Compare OlofE shaking his head pityingly over that particular aspect — uj uj uj — on Swedish wiki Bybrunnen (Headline: Pågående vandalisering?), after I had told them about the IP's and the info I had found on the school homepage. For latest events on sv, see also messages on the Bishonen Talk page from Niklas Modigh, Johan, Martin and Lamré (Swedish sysop).

I'm not really happy about our editing stuff out, except maybe my mention of the school on 3 September (see my message to Martin below). Anyway, I don't think they should be worrying very much about things like Google hits on our pages. They're in much hotter water with Swedish wiki, which is more likely to make trouble as far as the school and the deal with its sponsor goes. Bishonen 17:32, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ok, I won't argue for it. I'm not that happy about removing information potentially useful for the future either. However, we must add the information that Viktor and Niklas and other people who were perhaps implicated as vandals were probably not involved. So that someone who googles their names does not misconstrue the situation and gives them more trouble. What do you think? — David Remahl 18:03, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Oh yes, absolutely. As I've pointed out a number of times, on sv. and en. both, this aspect has worried me the whole time: that some of the names may be those of victims rather than perpetrators. Do please do whatever you can to un-implicate anyone you have talked with and have faith in, David. However, you might care to take a look at the message from Niklas Modigh on Swedish Bishonen's Användardiskussion, before you decide he wasn't one of the writers. That message sounds pretty genuine to me. Does the real Niklas Modigh, by phone, claim it's a fake, by any chance? Not that I want to go on hounding even the perps, far from it. Bishonen 18:27, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Sandviken, Ockelbo, Härnösand, Gävle.....

Hej.

Jag har sett mitt namn figurera i diverse inlägg som handlar om vandalism. Jag kan villigt erkänna att jag skrivit ett fåtal inlägg som kan betraktas som vandalism. Det har jag dock slutat med och bett om ursäkt för. Jag tycker det är beklagligt att det inte kunde räcka med det. Vem som har fortsatt "vandalisera" wikipedia efter min ursäkt har jag ingen aning om. Jag tror knappast att det är någon av mina vänner. I fortsättningen ser jag helst att ni slutar nämna skolan och företaget som gemensam nämnare för de här "vandalerna", då jag inte tror att så är fallet. Jag ser då hellre att ni kontaktar "vandalerna" personligen så att de själva kan få stå till svars för sina egna handlingar. Vill någon prata med mig eller någon annan av eleverna på skolan hänvisar jag till David Remahls diskussionssida, där Viktor Johanson givit ut sitt mobil tel. nummer.

MVH

Martin (bor i Härnösand och Ockelbo)

Reply to Martin

Hi, Martin, are you talking about the Swedish or the English Wikipedia? Only one mention has been made of the school on en.wiki after those messages from you that I saw on my page and David's. (Incidentally, have you posted messages on any other pages than those? I'm only asking because you state above that you've apologized, which I can't say I've seen.) That single message was from me to David, telling him that I had raised the matter on sv.wiki, where it turned out they had had some interesting contributions — "Bluffpoker" comes to mind. I'm happy not to have seen any more articles in the Famous Unknown Swedes Series on en.wiki since 1 Sept. We very much regard the matter as closed, and would be more than happy to welcome you and your friends as legit contributors, if you're interested.

I've read your identical message and those from your friends on my Swedish userpage. Could you please tell the guys that I don't have time to respond on sv. (this whole thing is taking much too much time for me), but I'm quite prepared to believe you about "Fred flygare" being a copycat posting. Lamré and OlofE seem less convinced (see Lamré's message on the Swedish Bishonen Talk), and the Swedish side is really up to them, so it might be better for you to address them directly, or Bybrunnen.

I do agree with you that it's much better not to mention your school or its sponsor on en.wiki any more, thanks for pointing it out. I'm sorry I named them in my 3 Sept message to David, it was just thoughtless habit. Best regards, Bishonen 17:13, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Charlotte Lennox

I found a very cool link on Charlotte Lennox and The Female Quixote for you. Let me know, if you've seen it before. Geogre 00:44, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I have indeed. That was how I got started on writing her up myself. But thanks, Geogre. Bishonen 01:38, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thought of you

When I saw the new article on Flemingsberg; it mentions some places that are quite famous to me now. Geogre 19:01, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Support

Thank you very much for your support during my recent run for adminship. I appreciated it very much. If you would like to talk sometime, please drop me a note on my talk page or email me. Mike H 00:10, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)

Poor nakee

I wondered if the new article about the kid who is very nice but wears his leather jacket all the time was related to our old articles, too. I may try to give you a call. Vidalia, Georgia is an alright town, but this school is kind of creepy, at least as it was presented to me on the phone. Geogre 13:46, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Talked to the Ma, and she understands but is frustrated by this turn of events. We now have the relocation as an Official Family Goal, though. That's not bad. Geogre 15:16, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Not bad at all. I hope the family comes up with some useful alternatives. Bishonen 15:27, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks again!

I hoped beyond hope that we might have a stumbling block over which our Bandit might fall on his face. There's a new Bandit entry called Life Goes On about some long-dead ABC-TV series which, quite honestly, I don't even remember. As usual, it's nothing more than the air dates and it's been tagged as a substub. The original entry has the same license info at the bottom of the page. Whoever...or whatever...this is might be breaking US law via a US proxy. I can't find matches on Google, but this moron is getting these things from some sort of licensed source and the Wikipedia servers are trying to alert everyone to the fact. I'm at least going to pass the fact on to the discussion page and get the heck off this site. Thanks for your help! - Lucky 6.9 16:49, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Blended learning

It's a pretty meaningless, but unimportant, stub now, so I'll just let it slide. Rick K 22:08, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)

Sure. Glad to see you're still around, Rick. Bishonen 22:27, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Gareth Owen

Hello. He's on loan. So what? He's still a nobody, and once his short career in the pros is over, only trivia nuts (who can host their own fansite if they like) will even remember his name. Wile E. Heresiarch 15:04, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Was your user page vandalized?

There is a bit there flattering to myself. Something must be wrong. Geogre 13:32, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC) (now with gmail)

Oh, I checked your contribs & saw your work on cleaning up the George Eliot talk page. What a disgrace that article was! Eek! Anyway, I added in stuff that was incontrovertible and stuff from my memory, but George Eliot deserves a ton more than is there. Geogre 13:53, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Must have been :-)

Plenty of new info there about me, too. I was just about to send you an e-mail to ask was it OK or had I better delete the bit about you, in case it could bring awkwardness or whatever. (Or delete it yourself any time, I won't be offended.) Apropos of too-short articles on golden writers like George Eliot, did you see RickK's listings of the looooong articles on Laura Ingalls Wilder and her daughter on Cleanup on the 13? Terrible. I've just gone shorten the daughter article by two thirds (by reverting — dead simple crash diet :-)). I'm sorry to do it, maybe the people who went to the trouble of adding all the material will be outraged, but seriously, it's an encyclopedia. The article is still much too long, of course. Bishonen 17:45, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Glumdalclitch

I added some somewhat speculative stuff to that article (last par). I think it is true, but I can't think of anywhere I've seen it attested. My brain may have slipped, and it may, in fact, be a commonplace that I'm just "discovering" because memory is letting me claim credit for the work of others. Anyway, do you think the Glumdalclitch/Stella stuff is spurious/obvious/original research? Geogre 14:38, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Blocking

It doesn't do me any good to block ANYBODY. The instant I do, Guanaco unblocks them. Rick K 04:48, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)

And people wonder why I left for good. I just popped over to see how some of the finer users are doing and I read this. Rick, it's the former "Lucky 6.9." Drop me a howdy when you can on [email protected]. Thanks. Feel free to "whois" the address. It should come back from Time Warner/Road Runner in the Palm Springs area. - 67.52.108.20 20:06, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

- Correction...make that a Road Runner commercial account routing through Virginia. Should've run it myself first. - 67.52.108.20 20:09, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hi there, Lucky, hope you're thriving. No wiki abstinence, then? Bishonen 20:14, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hey, RickK, I sympathize. Lord knows something has to be done. Snowspinner's going off on a tear in one direction, others in other directions, and we're all in a mess. We all agree that RfC is broken, but no one agrees on how it's broken or how to fix it, and then, in the meantime, the over-zealous go flipping nuts with "you insulted me! you die now!" and others with "I'll unblock anybody." Sheesh. Oh, and Lucky, you should see my Managed Deletion proposal. It will make life a lot better for the substub fighters. It's in the sorta-kinda proposal state right now, but you can find a link to it from my user page. Sorry for butting in, bishonen. If'n it's a vandal, I suppose I could try a block. If'n it's a controversial user...I'm too chicken, probably. Geogre 21:18, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hey, guys, you're all more than welcome to chat on my page. I'm sad to see that your userpage is really deleted now, Ralph. :-( I know that's what you wanted, though. Bishonen 21:52, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Well, I don't get it. I don't see any rationale for Guanaco doing that. Why would he want wikipedia to be at the mercy of a hyperactive vandal? - because Guanaco is out to undo anything and everything I do. Rick K 04:17, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

Flower and Whiteflower

Ok, I've added some of the background to the poem to the article now. It was in my eME book, turns out, so the background information the editors gave me was confined to language, for the most part. Nevertheless, it seems that an Oriental origin is probably out -- that was just one critic saying so, and Medievalist critics are some of the dumbest creatures on earth (because they're scholars). I don't know the French development of the tale, but the thing is 100% French until Boccaccio picks it up again. Geogre 18:10, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The stuart

Yeah, I've got to admit - sometimes the whole categorization thing confuses me, and I've been working with it for a while. I'm sure it will all get straightened out. -Seth Mahoney 21:53, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

-Hey I got on a roll with making that category. The only way to change it would be to go to each one of those pages and change the s in stories to a lower case. I don't think its worth it though. Sorry to have messed up your page you wrote though.--The_stuart 04:53, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I changed the cats again, this time removing Category:Short stories and adding Category:Short story writers - this is what you were getting at, right? Have you been paying much attention to the various category discussions (not meant to be rude - read on)? I was wondering if there had been any talk about adding See also sections to categories. -Seth Mahoney 21:57, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)