Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Final Fantasy/archive/34

Archives 6 July 2005 - 7 July 2005 8 July 2005 - 25 July 2005 26 July 2005 - 6 September 2005 7 September 2005 - 30 November 2005 1 December 2005 - 12 January 2006 12 January 2006 - 5 February 2006 6 February 2006 - 21 March 2006 21 March 2006 - 11 April 2006 11 April 2006 - 18 May 2006 96 KB = due for an archive :) — Deckiller 00:40, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Housekeeping

Community

June role call

1. Hibana Still around, not focused on anything in particular. Just protecting, I suppose. 20:44, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
2. RaCha'ar More active than I was last month for sure. Going to do some serious work on cleaning up Final Fantasy character classes and getting rid of the excess pages that can/should be merged into it. -20:56, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
3. Renmiri Will be offline most of the month, but will try to find some time to watch out the FF pages for vandalism, and bad edits at least. 23:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
4. Deckiller...still here...— Deckiller 00:32, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
5. Chanlord -- /salute CHANLORD ^[T]/_[C] 05:48, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
6. warpedmirror (talk) – here...not being particularly productive...but here. – 16:45, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
7. DarkEvil I think I am ready to do some work here, might be about anything since I often decide to work intensively on one part of the project and then I suddenly get interested by another aspect. -13:46, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
8. Crazyswordsman -- My job is keeping me pretty busy, but I should have some time to schmy around and see what needs to be done from time to time. In case you haven't seen it yet, you should check out Terminology of Final Fantasy VI and give me some ideas on how to improve it.
9. Tristam Next week I may be doing some more editing, but not doing much right now after my massive overhaul of Chocobo Racing's page. Oh, Crazyswordsman, the FF6 Terminology page is lookin' hot, but I don't think all that bolding is necessary. Weren't you going to name it Mythology of Final Fantasy VI? -- Tristam 16:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
10. User:JiFish - as always. --JiFish(^Talk/_Contrib) 16:45, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
11. Wwwwolf Still here, with kind of low power setting still... --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 16:57, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
12. Finduilas 09 More cleanup edits and general proofreading. I may not be checking back quite as frequently for the next month or two, but I'll still drop in from time to time to check on things.
13. ZeWrestler ^Talk 13:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC) - I'm alive. Trying to start up some form of activity again. Although, life is still keeping me busy, I did however nominate Final Fantasy VI for the GACOTW. Votes from people here would be great. --ZeWrestler ^Talk 13:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
14. Ryu Kaze I guess you could say I'm here. I'm only dropping in to spruce up Final Fantasy X a little, but I guess I'm here. Ryu Kaze 14:52, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
15. Kasreyn I just now joined the project, though I've been at Wikipedia for some time. Hi, everyone.  :) I've played most FF games, but my focus is on the original FF (FF1 that is), FF1 for the Wonderswan Color, and FF7. If I can help in any way with these subjects, let me know! Kasreyn 22:55, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
16. Cronodude360 Well, I just joined about 2 minutes ago. I plan on helping as best as I can. --Cronodude360 21:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
17. Mushrambo Just joined, but I've been working for what the Final Fantasy WikiProject stands for for quite some time --Mushrambo 01:37, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
18. WhiteMateria A newcomer to the WikiProject Final Fantasy but not new to freeware documentation. 25 June 2006 (UTC)
19. YhnMzw here. YhnMzw 23:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
20. Newbie here, but I'll do the best i can -ScotchMB 03:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Happy birthday, WikiProject Final Fantasy!

It was actually yesterday of last year (the 5th) that Seancdaug started the project, but I noticed the first archived talk was on June 6, 2005. Anyway, great work everyone! Take a look back on June 5th of last year on any Final Fantasy page to see how much it's improved! ~ Hibana 00:39, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

It made a big difference to me to see that there were lots of people who cared and worked on FF pages. Thank for being here WPFF! Renmiri 19:39, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Happy Birthday to the project, and a pat on the back to everyone who has contributed. Ryu Kaze 14:51, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Issues

List of Final Fantasy titles

I just wanted to point the attention of the project to the large-scale edits occuring on the featured article List of Final Fantasy titles. Some edits seem to be to put the article in line with fair use policies, but the layout has also been changed. --JiFish(^Talk/_Contrib) 11:51, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I have reverted the changes and we can discuss the proposed changes on the talk page. I'm concerned that major changes such as that would cause it to become delisted. -- CHANLORD ^[T]/_[C] 05:35, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. --JiFish(^Talk/_Contrib) 10:41, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Final Fantasy articles stealing room from other articles

I was browsing wikipedia when i came across an article called Ninja (Character Class). The article lets reader to think that FF-series is the only game in the world that has "Ninja" as a character class. It'd be nice if this wasn't only for the FF character class, but would introduce multiple games with the same character class.

Something like "blue mage" and such are much more FF-only and i agree classes like that are ok, but Ninja shouldn't be FF-only!

Yes, you are right, and that is why the article is named Ninja (character class) instead of Ninja (Final Fantasy). Have a look at Fighter (character class) — information is abundant about the role of the fighter class in media outside of FF.

All you need to do to make the ninja article non-specific to FF, is to add a section on whatever game it is that also has the ninja class. Then adjust the lead paragraph accordingly. Hope that helps. ~ Flooch 08:52, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

You are totally right. I noticed the same thing with some other character classes. I have moved the page to Ninja (Final Fantasy). Ninja (character class) is currently a redirect, but if anyone wants to make a page about the class in general they now can. --JiFish(^Talk/_Contrib) 10:44, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

We had begun a sub-project to work on moving a lot of the character classes to such-and-such (Final Fantasy) among other things related to cleaning up the character classes, but I think most of us got distracted by shiny things. I was trying to resurrect it without any response, so if you want to help out, it's at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Final_Fantasy/Sub-projects/Jobs. -RaCha'ar 13:20, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd say take the redundanciness (yay, made up word!) out of ALL the class articles (ie, how the job works in each game, as it says in many of the articles), make a separate article just on the Job system, and have it include the job list. We don't need to list every game each job appears in its own article. We have the FFWiki on Wikicities for that (and we have just about every job in the world over there now, and we should definitely put in a link to it). The only job article I'd consider keeping is the Black Mage article, and only because the Black Mage is considered to be a symbol of Final Fantasy much like the Moogle, the Chocobo, and the Cactuar. Crazyswordsman 19:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

There was discussion and even "voting" about which articles to merge and which to keep at the subproject, although we never did actually get around to making the changes (something I plan to remedy); and there is already an article just on Final Fantasy character classes. Unless you were talking about something different? -RaCha'ar 21:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

The Final Fantasy Wiki on Wikicities has gotten press

Hey, all. Remember the FF Wiki on Wikicities? Well, I should probably let you know that it was cited as a reliable source for gaming strategy by the link I put there. I don't know how this is true. Maybe its the FFVI bestiary I made there, because that's only the really gameplay strategy we have so far. (Well, we DO have job listings, ability listings, and character listings as well, heh). Just thought I'd let you guys know. Crazyswordsman 02:56, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Woohooo! Congratulations! Xornok has also been putting a lot of Blitzbal game info there, so maybe the guy say the blitz area too ? The rest of FFX and X-2 still needs a lot of work, so I'm giving it some TLC this morning. Good Job! Renmiri 14:31, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I actually need some help with some new ideas, heh. How do I feature an article BTW? Crazyswordsman 23:59, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

One more present

Hey, guys. I know I said adding more critical response to the Final Fantasy X article would be my last contribution, but today I got a chance to scan the pages from EDGE's review of the game, and I thought I'd leave them with you before I left for my vacation in case you guys needed them for future editing of the page:

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i42/Ryu_Kaze/EDGEFFXscan.jpg http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i42/Ryu_Kaze/EDGEFFXscan2.jpg

Be well all of you. Thanks for everything. Ryu Kaze 12:57, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

List of Final Fantasy VII locations

I just realised I posted a message on the talk page of that article since December 14, 2005 with no answer to this day. I think this is an important matter since it concerns the legality of the article. The thing is simple, there are currently around 40 images to the article, all fair use and all uploaded by me (at least I think). What I suggest is to reduce that ridiculously high number to 15 since I remember reading that 15 images from a collaborative work (such as a video game which is a collaborative work) can be used under fair use in somebody else's work which I'll simply put as our article in this case. If it were my own website and there were no such things as laws, I'd really prefer to keep all images, but we don't own Wikipedia and if we want to keep cool with the rule (see the rhyme), I'd suggest we discuss which images to keep and which images to delete to make 15. But before discussing which images to keep, I want to know if other members agree on my proposition.--DarkEvil 17:26, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

We did go a bit over 15 for some pages on FFX (still lower than 20, I think). But 40 is way too much IMHO. pairing it down is a good idea. Approved Renmiri 17:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

If you can't seem to cut them to close to 15 you can try what I did on the List of Final Fantasy X characters and put an inline link: [[:Image:img.jpg]]. That just links to the image, w/o displaying it, so it is there for readers who need it, but it will not add to image count. But if the image isn't used anywhere else, an inline link will give you trouble with Roomba, the wikibot that hunts for orphaned images. There's solutions but I'm not sure it is worth the trouble! Renmiri 17:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Finally an answer, and it's an approval, I should've posted that message here from the start. Yeah, I thought about inline links first, but I don't think images used as inline links can be fair use since the only place where an image is fair use is in the article namespace, and they would still count I think, because they're still available even if they're hidden. And anyway, like you said, we'd have trouble with Roomba, but thanks for the suggestion. I think we can easily delete some of them without much impact, like Golin Island and Materia Cave. Also, it might not be totally right to count Costa del Sol and Chocobo Farm as one image since they're a collection of screenshots (4 for CdS and 2 for CF). So, I'll wait for some more people to approve and I think the best solution will be to delete unneeded images, we can probably reach 15 or near.--DarkEvil 18:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Basically, more than one image per location can be disregarded. Get rid of the World Map pics, too. The Whirlwind Maze pic is also unneccessary, as is Gaea's Cliffs. Crazyswordsman 23:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

You have nearly the same thoughts as I have, I made the necessary changes for now, we're down to 21 which is not too bad. If you have suggestions for removing another unneeded image from the page, you're welcome. I'm gonna list the images I removed from the page (I have not listed them for deletion yet, in case someone would want one of them to stay instead of another):

• Image:Midgar Aerial View.jpg --It's an fmv and we already have another image of Midgar, see Image:Sector 7 Slums FFVII.jpg
• Image:Midgar.jpg --Another image of Midgar is already available, and this one is a world map image, not very useful.
• Image:Final Fantasy VII - Underneath The Rotting Pizza.jpg --We already have an image of inside Midgar, there's no use to have a second one.
• Image:Shinra Building FFVII.jpg --Once again an image of Midgar. The most important representation of Midgar is the slums.
• Image:ChocoboFarm.jpg --This is kind of an optional location.
• Image:Junon Shin-Ra.jpg --We already have an image representing Junon the town. This is the Shinra headquarters.
• Image:Junon Underwater Reactor.jpg --This is a reactor image, this is in no way good to represent the town of Junon. Might be more useful in explaining what a reactor is, but then again, we don't see the reactor itself in this image.
• Image:Corel FFVII.jpg --This is a flashback sequence, the town of Corel isn't like this in the game.
• Image:Gold Saucer fmv.jpg --There is already an in-game screenshot of the gold saucer.
• Image:Ancient Forest FFVII.jpg --This is totally an optional location.
• Image:Mount Nibel Reactor.jpg --This is only a reactor, not really a location.
• Image:Sleeping Forest.jpg --This is exactly what is explained in the article, a forest, this does not really need an image to be explained.
• Image:Great Glacier FFVII.jpg --A glacier is just a glacier like a forest is a forest, and with the Icicle Lodge image, I think we can understand that this is a snowy place.
• Image:Gaea's Cliff FFVII.jpg --The image in itself did not help explaining the location. This is just a cliff.
• Image:Whilrwind Maze FFVII.jpg --This place is only composed of ledges, nothing special.
• Image:Whilrwind Maze fmv.jpg --This is an fmv, not really an in-game image of a location.
• Image:Knights of The Round Materia Cave FFVII.jpg --Totally optional (I could even say the most optional) location.
• Image:Goblin Island FFVII.jpg --Optional location, and not a village or something like that, just a location on the world map.

--DarkEvil 17:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• Good choices, however, I'd say keeping Ancient Forest, Chocobo Farm, and Nibel Reactor if we don't have another image of Mt. Nibel there. This is a list, not an article, so the image limit does not have to be enforced rigorously. Crazyswordsman 23:21, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I put back Ancient forest and chocobo farm, I don't really mind for them and as you said, this is a list, maybe you're right about this point. I didn't put back the nibel reactor because we have an image of mount nibel which is a small fmv as of right now, but I plan to upload an in-game screenshot since all other images are not fmv.--DarkEvil 05:38, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Spoken article

Would anyone be interested in recording a spoken article for either Final Fantasy X or one of our Good Articles? I brought this up at the beginning of the year with no show of hands, but now that some of the articles are noteworthy, I'd like to bring it up again. Is anyone good speaker? ~ Hibana 18:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, English is not my native language! Renmiri 21:22, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd love to, but I lack access to equipment that would produce a good recording. I imagine this is probably the biggest obstacle to getting spoken articles.  :/ -RaCha'ar 22:17, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I'll record FFVI. Send me info about it and I will do so. Crazyswordsman 22:56, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

That would be really cool. I'd love to do it, but I'm afraid I just don't have the equipment to do so. Ryu Kaze 14:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I have begun the recording. I should have it ready by the end of the weekend. I may do Final Fantasy X, our featured article as well, but it's not top priority for me. I plan on doing Chrono Trigger as well. I wonder if I should put in a sample of the opening theme into the article to showcase Uematsu's music. I don't know if it's allowed, though. Crazyswordsman 15:24, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I would adore a chance to do a spoken article on FFVII, almost any FFVII related article. I'd have to find my mic first though. Kasreyn 10:14, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I do consider myself a good speaker. I speak fluent English (American dialect) with a mild Midwestern accent. Male, tenor-baritone voice. Would a sample of my speaking be needed? Kasreyn 10:16, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

A sample would be good. I don't suppose you could be talked into doing one for Final Fantasy X as well? Ryu Kaze 11:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Trouble is, I love FFX but I'm still in my first play-through! I don't want to be spoiled on the ending, so I can't even finish reading the article. Kasreyn 12:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you still there? I'm still interested, Ryu Kaze. Kasreyn 17:13, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Please list a sample for us all. :) ~ Hibana 02:34, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok, first I have to find my mic... buried in my closet somewhere. :P Kasreyn 06:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm still here (sort of). Go ahead with the sample. I'd like to hear it. Ryu Kaze 12:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

FF Wiki forums

Thanks to the awesome Renmiri, I now set up a forum for us. It has a forum for discussion of what's going on here, so I just wanted to get people to come. The url is http://ffwiki.ffproject.net. Crazyswordsman 23:00, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Mythology of Final Fantasy X and Spira move complete

I just thought I'd let everyone know that the move from Mythology of Final Fantasy X to Spira is complete, as is the move from Spira to List of locations in Spira. Furthermore, all the broken links have been repaired. See you guys. Ryu Kaze 15:45, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Good job Ryu, as always! Though I gotta admit Flooch's final versions were pretty good even before you put your master touch! Renmiri 19:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Several Final Fantasy VI articles were created which should be merged into Terminology of Final Fantasy VI

They are as follows:

• Magitek armor
• Protoarmor (I say this one become a redirect to the Bestiary. Otherwise I'll nominate this for deletion).
• Tritoch

We should try to preserve some content though. I'll go ahead with the merge once I get some approval, and decide which content is appropriate to keep. Crazyswordsman 23:28, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Go for it. ~ Hibana 02:32, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Done. I just need to dig around in Magitek Armor and Tritoch archived articles and find sentences that would fit well in the terminology article. Crazyswordsman 02:48, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Banners

Please leave the WP:CVG banner on the talk pages. They automatically classify an article for the Wikipedia 1.0 project. If you could put {{cvgproj|class=|importance=}} back on any pages that they have been removed from, that would be appreciated. I have been doing this myself on a few articles. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 07:03, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Merge patrol

Necron has an article. I doubt it will get much longer than the two lines it has here. I'm requesting an authorization to merge it. Also, didn't we merge the article on Al Bhed aways back? Because it's somehow back. Crazyswordsman 01:28, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Aye we did. Al Bhed was merged into Races of FF, but we kept Al Bhed Language for the language / cypher fans...

I vote for the merge in this case too! Renmiri 19:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Nomination of ff7

Hey guys, I recently nominated FF7 in haste, as a featured article and it failed which means there's more work to be done. One comment was that there was too much spoiler section. Should we remove the spoiler sections that's not in the story? Citations on the reception I could find, however the writing was declared as "clunky" I don't understand and could someone fix it? Thank you.-ScotchMB 11:46, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

As I understand it, first you gotta put FFVII for Peer Review, then AFTER 3-4 weeks of peer criticism being addressed the TEAM puts it up. It is a time consuming process, the FFX FA review was brutal particularly on Ryu Kaze, Deckkiller and Flooch who worked non stop for weeks fixing issues raised... We got it, but it took a lot of sweat blood and tears ;-) talk to Ryu or Deck to get more hints on how to do it properly. Renmiri 19:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Obviously I am such a newbie that i didnt know how much effort is needed for a FA. The three people you listed are probably my new gods now. I will try to overcomemy newbiness. -ScotchMB 00:36, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

The next big project seems to be to get FFVI there first. Crazyswordsman 00:45, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Infobox conversion

Mega Man
Mega Man series character
Mega Man from Rockman Complete Works (PS1).
First game	Mega Man
Created by	Keiji Inafune

Cloud Strife
Compilation of Final Fantasy VII character
NOT Cloud
First game	Final Fantasy VII
Created by	Kazushige Nojima

You may be wondering why I posted an infobox for Mega Man here. Good question.

I was wondering if there would be any objections to me switching the character infoboxes (such as {{FFIV character}}) over to subboxes for {{General CVG character}}, the unified video game character infobox. An example of how it would look is to the right. This switch (which I was planning on taking care of) wouldn't lose any information, but would add context, in the form of a field for the artist who designed a character or the creator(s) of the game the character appeared in.

I would normally just be bold and convert it, but I wanted to check a couple things first, though.

First, does this project use the WP:CVG standard blue for template colors? The front page seems to imply as much, but I wanted to check.

Secondly, are there any objections to this switchover? It has already been done on more than half of the old CVG infoboxes. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 11:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm taking the liberty to post an example of what the infobox would look like using our lovable Cloud Strife. As a side question, how do you add extentions to your userpage to conduct tests and etc.? Axem Titanium 17:29, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

By just going to a page and putting something there. For example, you could click this redlink. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 17:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Gee, thanks. -.- Axem Titanium 17:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

We'd have to create a different template for each game, though, and that would be hard. Crazyswordsman 23:28, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, if you look at the templates that we use right now, they all pretty much contain the same stuff. If absolutely necessary, since the parameters are all optional, we could include all the parameters and leave them blank as necessary. --Axem Titanium 01:05, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I just editted my template to be more general. Axem Titanium 01:39, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Sphere Grid page

Recently created, too much IMHO, so I suggest moving it to FF Wiki and reverting the changes Renmiri 18:00, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

...where is it? Axem Titanium 18:16, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

It's The Sphere Grid. I guess it was named that because Sphere Grid, having once been an article on its own, was redirected to Final Fantasy X. ~ Hibana 20:11, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It goes a bit too indepth for a topic a lay-wikipedian wouldn't care about. Axem Titanium 00:57, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Sure OK... I'm kind of new to this whole Wiki thing and I can't even understand most of the lingo but it sounds I did something wrong so do whatever you want. I just didn't want to stir up a commotion or something... better luck next time I guess. Am I still allowed to edit it though? Radioactive Cactus 4:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Warning

Some users are going anti-list and starting to put a lot of lists up for AfD. While most of the Final Fantasy ones should be fine, there may be a few clashes of wikiphilosophy. Just a heads up. — Deckiller 20:19, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps I'm overthinking...

Today, I've been worried that some users may push for great articles like Mythology of Final Fantasy X to be merged into their respective article for the "sake of the encyclopedia". While I can understand their viewpoint, this really scares me. I preach WP:FICT number four, which states that plot summary should be in the main article, yet isn't that what the Mythos article is? At the same time, the Mythos article is not a plot summary; it describes the fictional world. China has subarticles; the USA has subarticles. Therefore, I think WP:FICT needs to be changed to prevent things from going too excessive. Perhaps to something like: "Plot summary is only allowed outside of an article if it is used as a means to support the encyclopedic integrity of the article. That article, in turn, must be linked to its topic in a way that is not related strictly to plot summary. For example, Mythology of Final Fantasy X describes the world in which Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy X-2occurs. It is not necessarily a sub article, because it provides a perspective on the universe in a way that the general parent article cannot. At the same time, it is still interesting to outside readers, as it provides an out of unverse feel and shows the fictional universe from an encycloepdic perspective, not a synopsis perspective."

It's really a tough case, because wikipedia policies can't be concrete. There are just too many exceptions. It is too complicated for a simple policy. ARGH. — Deckiller 21:49, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

You do realise that the Mythology of Final Fantasy X article was recently merged into Spira (Final Fantasy X), right?

Also, I believe that the article isn't necessarily a plot summary. As the section heading says, it's a history: it details events and lore that happened before the games take place, and therefore aren't included in the plot summaries for X and X-2. ~ Flooch 11:09, 3 July 2006 (UTC)