Archive
The path to featured article status
The article is too long. Nazism#Nazism_in_relation_to_other_concepts needs to be split into separate articles. I am going to focus myself on Nazism and religion, as that is an area of particular expertise and interest of mine. Lets go way out of our way to be civil and considerate of each other and the readers, and we should be able to get this article featured someday :) Sam [Spade] 14:12, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Nazism and religion, references
AndyL wrote (18:32, 3 Oct 2004)
- Sam, you've allowed your own prejudices to guide your editing. You've completely disregarded the following exchange on Nazism and religion:
There are no Christian influences in Nazism. Andy. I haven't read anything anywhere. I do Know that Hitler was influenced by Marxists and the SPD and by the Socialists in Vienna. He copied them. Unprotect the page Andy. WHEELER 14:57, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- No, do not unprotect it. It is a controversial and complex issue and such absolute, black&white claims do not do the subject justice (and it is about Nazism, not just Hitler per se.). One work by historian Steigmann-Gall, views Nazism as ultimately Unchristian, but still "point[s] out how much Nazism owed to German Christian, especially Protestant, concepts."
Steigmann-Gall, Richard. The Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity, 1919-1945. (Cambridge University Press, 2003).
Book reviews (amazon - editorial) for Nazi Conceptions of Christianity El_C
- El_C, if you have read the book then I suggest you edit the section about religion. The book seems good when I read the reviews on Amazon. Please tell us what you know because the books make me curious. Andries 18:50, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Also, most of my "key" edits were to "Nazism and Socialism".
I haven't gotten that far down yet. Sam, if protection is lifted do you promise not to implement your changes unilterally as you did last time and allow for a consensus to develop here instead?AndyL 19:20, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Sorry, I have not read it, I am only (somewhat) familliar of its role in the historiography. The following are works that could also prove of value:
Nazism and religion: references
Addendum: I forgot to note that I have encountered scores of books on the subject written in German (without an English translation) on the topic of Nazism and religion, so I encourage German-speaking contributors to seek those also as the title of some of these strikes me as potentially quite valuable. El_C (4 Sep)
- WTF? I thought talk page flooding was vogels thing. Is there anything you are able to articulate, because the above isn't what I would call an effective dialogue. In the future, if theres something you'd like me to review, please give me a hyperlink, and a bit of context. Sam [Spade] 22:39, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Sam, you tried to remove references to Christianity from the article except to call those who suggest there is a connection "anti-Christian" rather than base your edits on the discussion we had when the article was protected you've completely disregarded what was said. AndyL 22:41, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Well thats a bit better, at least I know what your talking about now. I didn't mean to bias things in that way, and I'm fine w the edit you made a few minutes ago. What do you think of the very many other edits I made? Any chance I might possibly squeeze a compliment out of you for my hours work? Sam [Spade] 22:44, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
WTF? I thought talk page flooding was vogels thing. Is there anything you are able to articulate, because the above isn't what I would call an effective dialogue
Try to stay calm. A talk page can always be archived when it becomes too lenghy. The list cannot be considered flooding if its items are pertinent. The point for it was to demonstrate that the topic should not be omitted so readily — listing these references helped to establish this. I urge you to review the comments that preceded these for further context. I remain hopeful that it proves useful here.
Inarticulately yours,
- Well, if you focus on the sentance you left out "if theres something you'd like me to review, please give me a hyperlink, and a bit of context." you might understand what I was getting at. Actually, you seem to have done just what I asked, which is great. It wasn't you, nor the opportunity to discuss and review references and previous discussion that annoyed me (how I reacted in anyway other than "calm" I cannot fathom), it was the manner in which things were done ("Sam, you've allowed your own prejudices to guide your editing. You've completely disregarded the following exchange on Nazism and religion"...), and the lack of context. Sam [Spade] 11:55, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Fair enough. I mistook your comments to indicate a criticism of the refernce list per se. as not being a part of the dialogue — only after making my comment did I notice the discrapencies that made the page misleading and read poorly. I should have noted that there and then, but I neglected to (was preoccupied at the time). So I retract my comments. As for reading a lack of calm in your aforementioned comment, the reason for this was the WTF, I simply found it to be a term uncharectaristic with your usual demeanour here (and I did view it as directed towards myself, author of the reference list), so I arrived to that conclusion. But that isn't very important one way or the other. El_C
- actually it was directed towards andy, who responded to my suggestion that we work together amiably and focus on separate areas (maybe I should have been more clear that I was avoiding the whole socialist debate in my edits as an appeasement to him?) with making a rude statement and copy pasting your list, comments, and whatever else into the talk. That annoyed me, but I'm pretty much always annoyed w andy, we've had a RfAR, RfC and so forth, and theres not alot of sweetness between us. That said I wasn't particularly upset, and certainly wasn't remotely unhappy w yourself, your references, nor your statements. Anyhow, I'm off to edit the article now, I hope everythings cleared up. And andy, if your listening, lets agree to disagree, or argue via email, or something that isn't disruptive to the project, if you please. And I'm open to mediation any time ya like. Cheers, Sam [Spade] 21:31, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)\
Soemone help fix this?
When I tried to make some minor edits I ended up cropping alot off the article, as its too big to edit as a whole (for me anyway). Can someone revert to the earlier version? Thanx -R. fiend 17:18, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Oh, and whoever does that, can they get rid of the pointless Hitlerism link in the first line? Hitlerism redirects right back here, and Hitler goes to a disambig page (is that right? Well, a discussion for elsewhere). Adolf Hitler is linked in the next couple sentences, and throughout the article, so that Hitlerism link is useless. -R. fiend 17:22, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)