Talk:Titanic

An event in this article is a April 15 selected anniversary (may be in HTML comment)

General Discussions

I'm not sure the entry regarding the engineering spaces being all flooded by 1:15 is correct. Certainly, the forward boiler rooms would have been, but the aft boiler rooms, the 2 engine rooms, and more importantly the generator room would have still been dry. Had all the boiler rooms flooded or were unmanned by 1:15 then there would have been no steam to drive the wireless and deck lights, but the lights remained lit until late into the sinking, probably not failing until just prior to breakup. Can someone look into this?

[Addemdum] I did some digging around and at least one document I found claims the flooding has only gotten as far as Boiler Room 4 by 2:10 am, just 10 minutes prior to sinking. This would leave the engine room and the 3 boiler rooms aft of number 4 dry, therefore not all the engineering spaces were flooded by 1:15 qm.

http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/articles/break_up_gleicher.pdf

so far in my research I've noticed alot of stories that state that at least the crew in charge of keeping the power on (make sure the lights, the pumps and the wireless system stayed on) were there to the end. I didn't see anything that disputed it (yet) MechBrowman 05:19, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)

I found information about the engineering staff not being in the engineering rooms when the ship sunkA Last Bright Shining Lie, while I tend to beilieve the article is accurate I'm not sure if it is a good enough source (or even worth mentioning) what does everyone else think?MechBrowman 00:45, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)

The article you mentioned, A last Bright Shining Lie, states the lights were running off batterirs after the engineering spaces were abandoned. However, I found an article from Shipbuilder magazine online, describing the electrical system of the Olympic-class ships. It makes no mention of batteries, except for ones for the telephone system and electric clocks.

http://www.copperas.com/titanic/dynamo.htm

G. McVey 20:00, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)

I took out this part for now, I did not think it was a good enough resource, and is the only place I heard this, so I'm not sure how relevant it is. Here it is for reference in case anyone knows better MechBrowman 21:35, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)

Another myth is that the engineering crews stayed at their posts to the bitter end. This myth was unfortunately perpetuated by Titanic discoverer Bob Ballard's book on the ship published in 1988. In reality, all of the engineering spaces were flooded by 01:15 (just over an hour before the ship's final plunge) and at the time of the plunge the engineers and stokers were on the poop deck with the hundreds of others still stuck on board with no hope of rescue. Nonetheless, King George V decreed engineering officers ever after would display their gold braid epaulets upon a "royal purple" background as a memorial to the Titanic engineers.

I deleted this line:

A smaller streamer called RMS Empress of Ireland sank May 29, 1914, killing 1,012. More passengers died on the Empress of Ireland (840) than Titanic (832).

Not only does it cite the wrong figure for the Titanic disaster, it's also internally inconsistent (1012? 840?). jdb ❋ 01:56, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)|(I'm not logged in yet I put it back in: F.Y.I.)

Greenwich, England, or Greenwich, Connecticut? -- Anonymous

Is it RMS (Royal Mail Ship according to http://www.ucc.ie/cgi-bin/acronym?rms)? -- Anonymous

It's Royal Mail Steamer per http://www.rmstitanic.net/rmst/faqs/rms_faq11.htm. <>< tbc

I moved HMS Titanic to S.S., and added a redirect. --Belltower

Blast, that would be the third change (after me making the initial error of H.M.S. Titanic). According to this website, you are absolutely correct : http://www.rmstitanic.net/rmst/faqs/rms_faq11.htm Arco Scheepen

OK, is there another way to make sure? Anyone owns a book on the topic to verify www.rmstitanic.net? - Yooden

Interestingly the on-board newpaper of the Titanic refers to it as the SS Titanic: SEE: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Carpathia/page10.htm. I will see if I can find any more primary source information. sjc

Both SS and RMS are valid titles for it. I added a note to this effect on the main page. --Belltower

Was hte Titanic the worst maritime disaster? Dispite this wide-held belief, it seems fale. I refer to: http://www.nmm.ac.uk/faqs/sh1.htm - this seems an authorative source for correction. ...I don't have time currently to update this entry sufficiently to do the rest of hte writing justice. :( --Nemo

Per a Google search, the RMS name is far more widely used than the SS name. I have moved the article to reflect this. --maveric149

Why do we have two entries, RMS Titanic and Titanic? Especially since "RMS Titanic" links TO "Titanic"? -- Zoe

Good point -- seems necessary when both entries are only stubs. I say we make Titanic into a some type of disambiguation page that will then point here, to Titanic (1997 movie), and to anything else known simply as Titanic. There doesn't seem to be many links to fix. I also don't see any reason to not have a short article about "all things named Titanic" before having a disambiguation list. --Anon

What evidence is there for this statement?

"The iceberg punctured the hull, creating a long thin gash along the right side"

It's usually shown that way in the movies, but a Discovery channel documentary recently showed laboratory tests of Titanic hull metal that revealed it to have been brittle as manufactured, leading to a theory that there was not a gash, but hundreds of small holes in the hull. Ortolan88

I think something should be mentioned about the theories that the titanic was not the tictanic. But was infact the olympic and the olmpic the titanic. :-s - fonzy

Even the authors who put this theory forward (Gardiner and Van Der Wat) find that it isn't true from the evidence of expeditions to the wreck - so not much point putting it in.

I moved the Harland and Wolff link to the end. Normally external links are in a separate list at the end, so that users can tell easily what is a wiki link (it's in the main text!) and what's external. I did also wonder about the useuflness of adding this link when their site is down, but I guess we just wait and see ... Finally, is "on" really the right terminology for where it was built - the article says something like it was built on the H&W shipyard - is that correct language, or should/could it be something like in or at? If there was no shipping-specific language requirement I would have thought one of these would sound better. Nevilley 17:38 Jan 22, 2003 (UTC)

"in" is correct. Skeetch

The Edward (E.J.) Smith and White Star Line (Company) links in Olympic and Titanic articles should have the same label. What's the best way to do this? They are currently unpopulated. Skeetch

Keep it relevant

The following text belongs in an article on worst maritime disasters, not the RMS Titanic. --Jia ng

The worst maritime incident in history, in terms of loss of life in a single vessel, is recognised as the sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff by a Russian submarine in 1945 in which between 5000 and 7000 people died. Some recent studies of the disaster concluded that the actual death toll was over 9000.

The worst maritime incident in history, in terms of loss of life in two vessels, is recognised as the sinking of the Cap Arcona and the Thielbek by RAF Typhoons on May 3 1945 in which around 8000 people died.

However on 17 June 1940, RMS Lancastria (actually HMT Lancastria by the time of the sinking) evacuating troops and civilians from Saint-Nazaire, France, was sunk by German aircraft. The death toll is estimated at anything between 4000 to 9000. The true figure will remain unknown until secret British Government papers are released to the public in 2040.

The most in term of loss in lifes for two ships in the same attack is considered as to be the Cap Arcona and the Thielbek sunk by Typhoons RAF on 3 May 1945, around 8,000 people died.

The most in term of loss in lifes for one ship is considered as to be the torpedoe of Wilhelm Gustloff by the Soviet submarine S-13 on 31 January 1945, 5,000 to 7,000 deads. From recent studies, over 9,000.

The above text IS relevant. The Titanic was the greatest loss of life of an maritime disaster at the time, and many people think it still is. Mintguy (T) 07:28, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Vas-y, Mintguy !!!

Just simply state that "The Titanic was the greatest loss of life of an maritime disaster at the time" and link to Greatest maritime disasters. Wouldn't the same text be relevant for the other ships listed? --Jia ng 07:39, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I don't know why you want to remove this text. What harm does it do? It's right at the bottom of the article, it is relevant and interesting. The point is that many people THINK that the Titanic was the worst disaster ever (I even heard a TV anouncer say this a few days ago). This text makes it very clear that it isn't. As for the other ships, yes and no, there isn't this popular misconception, as these ships are far less famous than the Titanic. Mintguy (T)

Bravo, Mintguy !!!

What's wrong with putting it in a general article that can be linked by the other ships mentioned? I'm not for deletion. It's not irrelevant there. --Jia ng 08:12, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Nothing, but we're not running out of space, so what's the problem in having the information in several places. Mintguy (T) 09:25, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

If something turns out wrong or badly worded, it will take more than one edit. People may only be interested in the fact that "The Titanic was the greatest loss of life of an maritime disaster at the time, but no more" and not what those other disasters were. --Jia ng 09:31, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

How many different articles mention that Germany invaded Poland in September 1939? I for one am interested in this, and so is whoever put back those facts after you took them out the first time. If the article reaches 32k them this might be an issue, but it isn't. Mintguy (T)

I don't see any harm in retaining the IMDB links on this page. Particularly for those films that do not yest have Wikipedia articles. Mintguy (T) 17:19, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

What is the source for the height figure, also what is the criterion for the height? http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org give the height (Look-out cage to waterline) as 95 feet. A lot shorter than the figure on this page, I presume this is the height to top of the the funnels. Mintguy (T).

A lot of sources say 882feet in length, but this is wrong. Both Encyclopedia Titanica and Lloyd's Register http://www.lr.org/services_overview/shipping_information/is018titanic.htm give 852ft 6 in. Mintguy (T)

Maybe 852 is at the waterline and 882 is at the deck? But I suppose a typo is more likely. --wwoods 00:14, 8 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I know bugger all about ships, but I used to work for Lloyd's Register, writing software for the surveying of ships. The length is always taken from a line through the centere of the ship bow to stern including any overhanging railings. Mintguy (T)

I think the figure that was on the page for height was for keel to funnel, this figure isn't normally quoted, and I'm not sure its accurate (some sources say 175ft), so I've removed height altogether. Mintguy (T) 10:08, 8 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Units

If the ship was originally built in imperial units, shouldn't it read 852 ft 6 in (260 metres) instead of the other way around? I expect a parenthetical measurement to be a translation of the first one. Kevin Saff 21:38, 9 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. Mintguy (T) 22:35, 9 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation Page

I think a disamb. page should be created rather than having "titanic" redirect here. There is already an article on the 1997 movie, and there may well be others for the other Titanic movies made over the years, but anyone looking for those articles end up in a "dead end" so to speak at the RMS Titanic article. If not a disamb. page, perhaps a subsection devoted to the Titanic in popular culture should be added, including a list of links to the different movies such as A Night to Remember. 23skidoo 19:17, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

An edit by an anonymous TCP number (203.217.71.190) on October 24 removed several important sections including a bunch of external links, a section on the recovery, and an an entire section on the numerous films and novels about the Titanic. This vandalism passed unnoticed, apparently. I will put the information back, but since there have been so many edits since then, it can't be a simple reversion, but will require some care. It will take me a while. Damn! Ortolan88 22:00, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I just put back three graphics, 10 ex-links, 13 foreign editions, the description of the Ballard expedition and the complete (up to now) list of cultural influences. Maybe someone else could go over my work to see if I lost or duplicated anything that might have been added in the last three weeks after all this stuff was removed. It's surprising no one noticed this, don't you think? Including Ortolan88 00:34, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC) PS - Judging from what it took to get it back, someone went to a fair amount of trouble to vandalize the article.

Got by me too, although my eyes do tend to glaze over at the volume of tinkering for this one article. There are other ships in the world... :-) Stan 05:15, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Editing Requested/Required

I have moved your request at the end...

This page needs copy-editing. Badly. The sentence structure is clunky at best. I'm no Titanic expert, nor am I a trained editor, but I've tried to modify a couple of paragaphs so that they're more readable. -- jdroth

Yes I understand that there's a need for editing on this page. That's exactly why everyone(at least the good guys) here on Wiki is doing. A perfect page is not likely but it does take time for a page to become like prefect.

And about why I moved your request at the end... I believe it's frowned-upon to add your comments at the beginning, for that would mess up the chronological order of the discussions and may seem like you are disregarding the posts 'behind' you. — LegolasGreenleaf 02:31, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)

Confusing sentence.

The line where it says "had it turned 5 seconds earlier, or 5 seconds later when the iceberg was spotted..." do you mean to say "5 seconds after the iceberg was spotted" because otherwise I don't understand that sentence.

fxggfhgjgh

I'm confused. Why it's editable. People could screwthings up or add swear wordsetc.

I think what the author of that line is getting at is that had the berg been spotted 5 seconds sooner, the ship may have been able to turn just enough to avoid it altogether, while had it been spotted seconds later, the Titanic would have been forced to ram the berg head on, which would have done considerable damage to the prow and almost certainly would have resulted in considerable loss of life in the forward sections, but whould have breached fewer watertight compartments and left the ship still able to float.

External links mess

Suggestions on subcategorizing the external links? I think there are far too many (wikipedia isn't a links directory) and perhaps some are redundant. Cburnett 19:19, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I cleaned up the links some, there were several that led to the same site and some didn't need to be there. Alot of the link descriptions were a little strange and in many cases seemed opnionated. (Do we really need to say the Titanic was great in a link description?) I guess it could be shrunk even further, many sites contain the same information, and does a link to an Titanic art site serve a purpose? MechBrowman 04:25, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)MechBrowman

Wildly Innacurate!

Like many other articles here in Whackypedia, this page is full of wild and crazy distortions of the history of Titanic.

This article seems to draw it's facts from Movies and TV Miniseries and not from witnesses who were there.

The movie by James Cameron is full of false stories and this has been attributed to "Hollywood" to suit the filmakers desires.

Cameron makes it look like Bruce Ismay was a coward on that night, but he went down with the ship and was swimming away when he was rescued by a lifeboat.

Many of the things that happened in the movies or this article have no basis in fact and no witnesses to back them up.

Many people who survived wrote much about this event before they died and they should be quoted as witnesses.

People who write for Wikipedia should either stand for God's truth or they speak the Devil's lies.

Supercool Dude 15:09, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

what are the inaccuracies exactly? I know there are some inaccuracies in the Legends and Myths section (Which I am currently working on improving) but I wouldn't consider that the article is full of inaccuracies. The only inaccuracy you mention is about Bruce Ismay, and you are wrong. Ismay got on a lifeboat just as the movie showed (the movie used Bruce Ismay's own testimony from the inquries)MechBrowman 19:06, Feb 26, 2005 (UTC)

Rudder facts

I wasn't able to confirm how accurate the facts about having a larger rudder might have been able to save Titanic. Also I'm not sure where to mention the part about ramming the ship into an iceberg (it does not belong under myths as far as I can tell its most likely true.) MechBrowman 21:35, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)