Talk:Mongolian script

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Folded script

Moved the start of this discussion from Talk:Mongolian writing systems, where this talk page previously redirected to. --Latebird 01:03, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There may be only one online reference, but it contains an actual picture of the script from Choijilsüren, D. Mongolin Khuuchin Bichgiin Tsagaan Tolgoi Zov Bichih Dürem. edited by Kh. Luvsanbadlan, G. Nasanbuyan & J. Amgalan. Ulaghanbaghatur Khota, Mongolian People's Republic: Academy of Science Publisher, 1978 (no ISBN) Mlewan 23:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't doubt that the Mongolian script has been written in rectangular designs. That was the case with many scripts, and quite typical for seals of the time and area. What I'm not certain about is whether the term "folded script" is established terminology, and whether it's specific to this script. I've found some references for "nine folded script", as a similar design variant of the Phagspa script or even Chinese characters. It's quite possible that "folded" is just an adjective in that context, and not the name of one single script. --Latebird 00:17, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To be honest, I do not think "Folded script" is a mainstream English expression for a concept that is widely known in English. However, from the references it seems fairly clear that one in Mongolia considers it specific enough to have a word for it. It would have been good to be able to provide a Mongolian term, but failing that, "folded" works for me. Mlewan 06:01, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The main problem is, we don't have access to the original source (unless you do?), but only a non-scholarly interpretation of it. This is too uncertain for me to keep that paragraph. I should have cross checked more carefully before writing it in the first place. --Latebird 09:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Using better search terms I found more sources ([1], [2], [3]) who use "folded" (or to the extreme, "nine folded") as an adjective applicable to any script, and not as a name for just one of them. --Latebird 10:36, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK. I googled for 蒙 (Mongol) and 九叠 (jiudie/nine folded) and found no particularly good leads in Chinese. Even if the script term exists in Mongolian, I suspect it is unlikely anyone will miss it, if we leave it out. Mlewan 17:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This writing style is used on Mongolian banknotes, right next to the portraits of Sükhbaatar/Genghis Khan, so I think it would be worth mentioning. But only if we can find out the correct term. Yaan 11:35, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Great example! I think "folded" is the correct term, just that it can be applied to any script and not just this one. Think of it as a font style instead of a seperate script. --Latebird 12:26, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But maybe 'folded' is just an ad-hoc translation of the Chinese term? 'Nine-folded' sounds somewhat suspicious. In any case, the mongolian term seems to be 'bar bichig', where bar means something like printing plate.Yaan 22:14, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I still think we're hunting a phantom here. At least the online oracle has never heard of "бар бичиг". That's probably what is normally translated as "Seal script style" (seal = stamp ~ printing plate). In either case, it's not a seperate script, but just a style (something like this). Besides 9-folded, other amounts of folding have also been used. babelstone has a nice table with examples for the Phagspa script. --Latebird 22:53, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

google doesn' know everything ;) - but I don't know either. Anyway, I fully agree it's just a writing style and not a separate script, but I still think it's worth mentioning since Phags-pa seems to be also known as seal or square script (mong. dörvöljin bichig). Something like "The rectangular writing style somewhat popular today, found for example on the Tögrög banknotes, is just a variant of the classic script, not of the actual square (Phags-pa) script" Yaan 23:20, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, it's just a writing style. The word "folded" (as adj.) seems to refer to the writing style, rather than to a separate script. It's worth to mention this style because it's widely used on logos, etc,. But not as a separate page but within the page for the classic Mongolian script. (though Choijilsüren, D. Mongolin Khuuchin Bichgiin Tsagaan Tolgoi Zov Bichih Dürem. shows it as a separate script parallelly with Soyombo and Quadratic. That's perhaps layout mistake in the book.)

Gantuya Eng 25 July 2007

Created by?

Could anyone give a reference on Tatar-Tonga about creating the script? --Dolugen 04:38, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's from the Omniglot link (which may or may not be reliable). --Latebird 07:47, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't Tatatunga more usual version of his name?

Gantuya Eng. 25 July 2007

The form "Tatatunga" seems to be strangely popular with sites in Czech language. I see "tatar-tonga" more often in scholarly sources, though. A discussion of some variants is included here (although it's a forum, the text reproduces scientific material). --Latebird 12:06, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thak you for te information. Gantuya Eng

Mongolian Scouting

Can someone render Belen Bol (Be Prepared), the Scout Motto, into this Mongolian script? Thanks! Chris 03:25, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure it sounds like that in Mongolian? "Belen bol" or "Become prepared" will look like this: бэлэн бол. But it sounds strange. The traditional children's motto was Хэзээд бэлхэн "Hezeed belhen" ("(I am) ready forever") like the Russian children's motto Всегда готов "Vsegda gotov". Gantuya eng 03:44, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]