Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/archive May 2004

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Older than 7 days

Non-specific September 11th articles --> User talk:Wshun
Judeofascism --> Talk:List of pejorative political slogans
Christian views of women--> Talk:Christian views of women#VfD
Project for a New American Century on Iraq --> deletion holding pending improvements promised on Talk:Project for a New American Century on Iraq

October 4

I recommend we delete 'Text Adventure' and redirect it to 'Interactive Fiction'. Along with 'Adventure Game' they are listed as duplicate articles, and, while AG has unique content, TA adds nothing significant to IF. If anyone thinks it does, it can easily be moved over, sine TA is only 2-3 paragraphs. 2toise 16:43, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- This sounds like an editorial change you can make without votes for deletion. Of course, DO NOT delete Text adventure, but make it a Redirect to wherever you move the material e.g., Interactive Fiction. Put your explain (what you wrote here in the Talk page for TA. - Marshman 17:08, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- No cause for deletion: redirect should remain (if it's moved... the IF nomenclature has always rankled me as excessively pretentious and PR-ish... though I don't feel strongly enough about it to oppose the move...) -- Jake 08:36, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Car Satellite Radio I am sure there is some encyclopedic information in the article, somewhere. Rmhermen 19:22, Oct 4, 2003 (UTC)
- Well it shouldn't really be here then if there is some. The page is also listed at Wikipedia:Peer review. Angela
- This page really, really needs work, especially deletion of many of the author's opinions. The topic is an interesting one, however, and it should probably be edited rather than deleted. -- Mattworld 19:58, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- The topic was just replaced with a stub article. After some minor research, I now feel we should delete the article, because the information that is in this article is already/can be contained in Satellite radio (which redirects to Digital audio broadcasting). If the information from the stub article is to be kept, it should be incorporated into Digital audio broadcasting. Delete. -- Mattworld 20:23, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - I'd like to add that if it is to be deleted, it should be redirected to Digital audio broadcasting, where Satellite radio goes. -- Mattworld 20:26, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. I believe digital broadcasting and satellite radio are not the same thing (even if satellite radio is broadcast digitally) -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 01:21, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - I concur. CSR is an unnecessary distinction from satellite radio, but I'm unsure whether SR should be just in the DAB article. -- Jake 08:36, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

List of programs broadcasted by Mega Channel An incomplete tv guide, I think. Rmhermen 19:22, Oct 4, 2003 (UTC)
its going to take a lot of brains and skills to complete this article as of completion: winter, KEEP THIS ARTICLE OF PROGRAMS BROADCASTED BY MEGA CHANNEL.
- Delete.Available elsewhere and will take lots of updating. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 01:21, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Available elsewhere? Please could you say where? -- Oliver P. 05:40, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Reverting from vandalism. Wikipedia is not a dictionary and this isn't even a common used in Wikipedia. rv vandalism might be, but I've never seen it written "Reverting from vandalism". Angela 20:47, Oct 4, 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 01:21, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. -- Jake 08:36, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

October 5

Al Cron. Non famous. "Al Cron+Jazz" gets 13 Google hits. Angela 01:28, Oct 5, 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 13:58, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)

List of international direct dialing codes. non-encyclopedic. Same issues as the zip codes page above. Angela 02:11, Oct 5, 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. I hope we don't see a parts list for the '61 Studebaker Lark next!Ark30inf 02:14, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete, must draw line on lists at some point. Fuzheado 02:17, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- It appears to be a cut and paste from List_of_country_calling_codes -- Popsracer 03:34, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - Changed into redirect; I tried to preserve the Vfd notice, but that was automatically removed; keep List_of_country_calling_codes, it is linked to from all country tables. - Patrick 09:32, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC).
- Boy it shows you what a fine line we are treading. I vote delete '61 Studebaker parts list; not sure about phone area codes. It might be that we are getting too picky about lists, which some people like to make. Does it really matter if phone area codes or postal zip codes are here? I don't think not encyclopedic applies. But clearly we have no policy on such things, and at this point I cannot help but wonder what the guy that did the Finnish postal codes (only to have it deleted) must be feeling. I would suggest this approach: If any list is likely to be maintained on another web site, we should probably just link to it. However, if maintaining the list here has great potential for linking to Wikipedia articles, keep it here. Not sure that is any easier of a policy, but we need to get one going - Marshman 03:49, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep. The data is well-presented with examples, not a raw data dump. Seems like a crazy waste of time to delete good content because it is a list/because it doesn't interest you personally. I don't buy the slippery slope argument. Pete 09:26, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- I agree with Pete, keep it. -- Cabalamat 03:39, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete and perhaps redirect if you really feel so moved... -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 13:58, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep. Enough has been told. See m:deletionism for reference about what you people are up to. -- Taku
- Keep. No good cause for deletion. -- Jake 08:53, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Foodie. dictionary definition and not a real word. Angela 02:12, Oct 5, 2003 (UTC)
- Delete, insignificant slang. Fuzheado 02:17, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)~
- Redirect to gourmet or something like that. Should exist as a redirect IMO, but can't see that its contents would differ too much from such a node.
- "Not a real word"? You may not have heard it, but I've been hearing it in regular use for some years now. The article isn't very good however; redirect to gourmet may be the best solution. -- Infrogmation 05:47, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- This one is too easy. We have a Wikidictionary for real and slang words. Move irt there. - Marshman 23:50, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - Agree with Marshman, take it to the Wiktionary. Dysprosia 03:13, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Great Scot, of all the marginally relevant articles I've written, all y'all want to deep six one of the more relevant ones. And still keep exquisite corpse wang-dang-doodle. Suit yourselves. The term in question, however, is widely used on [www.well.com|the well], and probably a reflection of overall California culture. Redirecting it to gourmet is pointless, since there is no article there. I will admit the present article at foodie is stubby. I put it there while building haute cuisine, so it's not an orphan. UninvitedCompany 02:05, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - No one's doubting it's a word being used or even popular, but it isn't much more than a "gourmand", at least not from a Google search on the term. Fuzheado
- It's an orphan. Move to Wiktionary. --Menchi 03:23, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Off to the Wiktionary -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 13:58, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)

RapidSpiral. Few Google hits. A non-well-known development method. Angela 03:58, Oct 5, 2003 (UTC)
- Why this exclusive reliance on number of Google hits? Doesn't anyone actually read text anymore? The evaluation just seems intellectual immature.
- I thought it would have been deleted without putting it on here... ehh. Delete. Evil saltine 04:04, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Del. --Menchi 03:23, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete, even though I have heard of it. Fuzheado 07:28, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 13:58, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)

How to handle rope. Dare I say it? It's unencyclopedic. RickK 04:21, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- It's already been merged with rope so it might as well stay as a redirect. Angela 04:22, Oct 5, 2003 (UTC)
- Orphan. Del. --Menchi 03:23, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 13:58, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- The content of this page was merged into the rope article. Deletion of the history after merging is not an option. If content is used from a page, then it is an infringement of the terms of the GFDL to delete the information on the authorship of that content. The easiest way to preserve the information on authorship is to keep the page, and thereby its history. It should therefore be kept, at least as a redirect. -- Oliver P. 05:40, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep as redirect- history. -- Jake 08:53, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Jumpin' Jack Flash, Street Fighting Man. Do these really need their own pages? Can't the personnel involved be listed with the LPs? I don't think either of these articles involve enough information to constitute unique pages. Kingturtle 08:43, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Street Fighting Man has some interesting story and some covers behind it. Don't know about Jumpin' Jack Flash. BL 13:30, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Japanese_Instrument_of_Surrender_(1945). The original text copied and pasted in. Secretlondon 11:34, Oct 5, 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 13:58, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Save. This is historically significant.
- Delete and replace with stub pointing to external site. Morwen 18:12, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep Raul654 04:56, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Hell On Earth
- Delete: —Eloquence 23:02, Oct 5, 2003 (UTC) (no context)
- What a coincidence. I've just been hearing about this band on the news. I guess they are now article-worthy with all this euthansia business going on (Google news search for "Hell On Earth" euthanasia). I'll try to rewrite the article over the seven day grace period unless someone beats me to it. (Please do!) Pete 00:16, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - I've endeavoured to expand it just a little, with some external links (such as they are) and the titles of two albums gleaned from amazon.com. Isn't Toilet Licking Maggot a Cole Porter tune? Or am I thinking of Noël Coward? -- Smerdis of Tlön 18:48, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Wonderful example of American culture at its best. If this is a relevant encyclopaedia entry I'm Father Christmas. Will anyone know this band in a year or two, it just loks like promotion advertising to me. DeleteNorwikian 20:04, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - Well, apparently their promotion advertising worked. And they got media attention. Thus the article is relevent. But even if there wasn't a lot of media attention: why should the article be removed? A band that released several CD's has people who are interested in their music (or their performances), which makes it worth to include information about the band on the 'pedia, in my humble opinion. Guaka 23:15, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Well, they'll famous now, so deleting seems like a bad idea. -- Jake 08:53, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep Lirath Q. Pynnor

Varia - if not deleted, then altered somehow. Right now it seems to be a character from Xena: Warrior Princess, being passed off as a real mythological figure. Adam Bishop 23:14, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
I'm seeing Google hits re Varia as an Irish name and as a collection of writing on mythology -- all other hits seem to be Xena-originated. Apparently delete is in order, or clarify is a TV character, not really mythological. 5 Oct 2003
- For some mystifying reason (only ever saw 5 mins of one episode) I'm sorting this out. Oddly, Laite doesn't show up even on Xena fan sites... Stan 03:42, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)

October 6

Height - Redirects to Length User:200.165.208.90
- Combine with Length if kept. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 14:09, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Length - Dictionary entry. WINAD. User:200.165.208.90
- Keep. wshun 04:13, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep, article convinced me even though at first I thought it an obvious delete. Fuzheado 07:28, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep, it has more info than a dictionary entry. Evil saltine 08:07, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep. - Patrick 16:18, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep - interesting article. Tiles 00:04, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Del - I like the article but it is nothing but usage. Move it to wiktionary obviously. -- Taku
- Keep. It's somewhat interesting as it is and could esily grow a bit. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 14:04, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep. Hard to see exactly how it would get linked to, but it is an interesting article - Marshman 19:01, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep. -- Jake 08:53, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep ~~

Danny Bamford - a badly written advert for this chap. -- SGBailey 2003-10-06
- Delete, soon. Fuzheado 09:47, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. -- Mattworld 21:04, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete.-戴&#30505sv
- Delete. Clear case. Andre Engels
- Delete. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 14:04, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- And not even funny. Delete - Marshman 22:17, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. -- Jake 08:53, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Save. He'll achieve fame soon enough.
  - Come back then and promote yourself. Or better yet, someone will do it for you (once you are famous) - Marshman 18:09, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)

List of Prime Ministers and Premiers - badly titled article (it turned out to be the prime ministers and premiers of Newfoundland); moved to List of Newfoundland Prime Ministers; original useless as a redirect. - Montréalais 16:59, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete.戴&#30505sv
- Agreed, it's of no use. James Anatidae 03:44, 7 Oct 2003 (EST)
- Agreed.
- Delete. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 14:04, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. -- Jake 08:53, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Rothschild Houses in Buckinghamshire and its associated talk page - something I created, I have now seen the error of my ways. Graham :) 01:01, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Article is so choppy, I cannot tell what is right (or wrong) about it? Please explain reason other than "it was an error" - Marshman 22:17, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Error? This is a splendid page. We need a lot more stuff on local history. Definitely keep. (Probably needs moving to a different title, though.) -- Oliver P. 05:40, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep, improve, and be proud of. Kosebamse 08:13, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep Lirath Q. Pynnor

List of nicknames for George W. Bush, I've let this one sit for a time to let everyone chill. We deleted the nickname page for Hillary Clinton for very good reasons and I propose that those same reasons apply and consistency demands that we delete this one also.Ark30inf 01:11, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. InanimateCarbonRod 01:19, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- If you actually look at the record for deleting List of nicknames for Hillary Rodham Clinton, the log erroneously claimed that all the votes were in favor of deletion. If the votes had been counted correctly and mine added, it might not have been deleted in the first place. I was going to respond on the deletion page, but for some reason the article was prematurely removed from the VfD page (and the article prematurely deleted) before I got around to doing it. I'm not only opposed to deleting the George W. Bush page, but I was opposed to deleting the Hillary page as well, assuming there were actually a fair number of real nicknames on that page that they wouldn't have let fit on the main Hillary Rodham Clinton page. Wiwaxia 02:17, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - I'm not sure if you can get the Hillary page back, but it remains that deleting one, and leaving the other, is problematic.Ark30inf 02:20, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
    - The Hillary page can be undeleted via WP:VFU, and it probably should be if indeed it was deleted in error or otherwise irregularly. I don't have a problem with either page; the Bush one has useful information (albeit apparent redundancy). They will have to be watched for abuse (only real nicknames please!), but so do other pages. -- VV 04:22, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. Dubya is already discussed on [George W. Bush]]. Other nicknames can be discussed in a formal, thoughtful manner, not just a smattering of listed items. Kingturtle 02:30, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- This article damages Wikipedia's reputation among those who admire Bush. Flamebait-a-licious. Delete. -- Cyan 03:53, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Above comment is not a convincing reason to delete an article. I say both stay or both go, and since Hillary was deleted prematurely, bring it back and keep Bush. Fuzheado
- Delete both.戴&#30505sv
- Delete both and any others. Nobody has a list of well-known nicknames so long that it needs its own page. --Morven 06:19, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete both. Lists of ~~random insults~~ nicknames don't need to be documented in an encyclopedia. -- Onebyone 09:59, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. As argued above, including each word ever used to describe something is not a good thing to do. We should only have the terms that are commonly used to call him by. As far as I can see, but that's from across the Atlantic, only W and Dubya seem worth salvaging. Andre Engels 13:43, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete this and all of its kinfolk. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 14:04, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. DJ Clayworth 14:49, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. No place as a separate page in Bush or Clinton examples, and probably nothing but troll bait anyewhere else. - Marshman 18:54, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. -- Minesweeper 01:22, Oct 8, 2003 (UTC)
- Keep. And I also think that the Hillary list should be undeleted if it was deleted prematurely and that IF compelling evidence is put forward that there is a large number of nicknames in common use about her, then that list should remain too. BL 05:00, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete and if the HRC is back delete as well (Same Standard for all nicknames of politicans).Smith03 22:06, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
This was not deleted prematurely. It was on VfD for at least 7 days and Wiwaxia did not vote on it, so I can't see how s/he is now claiming that his/her vote was not counted when one was not made. Angela 19:24, Oct 8, 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. Just too tempting a target for namecalling. -- Jake 08:53, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep -- How is it democratic to keep requring the "keeps" to keep coming back here, seeing this, and readding their vote? Lirath Q. Pynnor

Fudgepacker
- Dictionary def. Tuf-Kat 02:37, Oct 7, 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. Wikipedia not a slang dictionary.Ark30inf 02:38, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Agree, delete. --Flockmeal 03:17, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- I've made it into a redirect. Keep! Jesus is Lord! 03:55, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- It isn't a redirect, and it's offensive. Delete. RickK 05:39, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - Just so that people don't get confused: Whether it's a redirect or not keeps changing (or at least was changing back and forth for a while). Both JiL and RickK were correct at the moment that they made their comments. -- Toby Bartels
- Delete-戴&#30505sv
- Del. --Menchi 06:52, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete -- don't redirect -- offensive. I'm not even sure the anout of detail on the subject in the article if it's redirected is necessary... -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 14:04, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- If the content merged into Homophobic hate speech is kept (and I see no reason why it shouldn't be, as it is as valid an example of homophobic hate speech as any), then deletion after merging is not an option. If content is used from a page, then it is an infringement of the terms of the GFDL to delete the information on the authorship of that content. The simplest way to preserve the information on authorship is to keep the page, and thereby its history. It should therefore be kept, at least as a redirect. -- Oliver P. 05:40, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- This term, according to the article, is a direct insult to me personally, as I am queer, biologically male, and a common top during anal sex (these days). Nevertheless, I found the information in the article interesting, and I have no doubt whatsoever that it should be kept. However, given the article's short length, its content could reasonably be moved to Homophobic hate speech, replacing the original article with a redirect. But abbreviation of that content (except where duplicated, or found to be wrong or unsupported) would not be appropriate. The current situation, where the content appears on neither page, is little more than censorship (inadvertent, presumably, since this current situation is the result of edits by different people). -- Toby Bartels 21:44, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - Addendum: The situation as it currently stands is all right (perhaps not ideal, but the matter does not need to be pressed further). Of course, the redirect, as is usual when a stub is incorporated into a larger entry, should not be deleted. -- Toby Bartels 04:17, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Laite -- Supposed to be Xena stuff, but it's fake. All Google hits (and 9 only) are unrelated. --Menchi 03:50, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- delete.戴&#30505sv
- More possible pseudo-Xena stuff: Anon 12.228's contri-list. --Menchi 06:55, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - Checking those, I think the following should go: Caerenia (no google hits), Aresinia (google hits not related). On the other hand, the following seem to be valid Xena references: Varia. I also reverted this person's edit on Ares - although it might be a correct Xena reference, putting it amid the Greek mythology draws an incorrect picture. Finally, I added Xena as context to Discord for the same reason - telling it's part of Xena, not of Greek/Roman mythology. Finally, the pieces about Egyptian, Syrian and Pontus princesses and queens seems legit, but taken directly from some genealogy website. Correct, but of dubious worthwhileness. Andre Engels 13:43, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- I'm not a Xena expert, but I'd keep the ones that are easily verifiable and get more than a handful of hits. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 14:04, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Laite, Caerenia, and Aresinia are all definitely bogus - couldn't even find plausible misspellings or fanfic refs online - others are OK with the changes mentioned above. I now know enough Xena trivia to last a lifetime. :-) Stan 16:24, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- If these are just characters from Xena, then they should all be made into redirects and the text from each moved to the page about the show. It is silly to develop an encyclopedia of multiple pages on characters in a TV program as none could ever rise to the level of a real article about anything (but all together, could be justified in an article about the show) - Marshman 18:49, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Leanne Archer--Vanity page? -戴&#30505sv
- Probably. If she really were an archeologist worthy of an article, I'd expect to hear of her writings, discoveries, theories etcetera, not that she got a PhD. Or at least not _just_ that she has her PhD. Andre Engels
- Delete. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 14:04, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Having put her "resume" on Wikipedia, she is now famous. Delete - Marshman 18:41, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Couldn't find anything useful on her with Google. The information is therefore probably not verifiable, at least not easily. (By the way, the article only says that she began her PhD, not that she got it.) -- Oliver P. 05:40, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Luis von Ahn - (vanity page)
- This doesn't really fit the pattern of a vanity page addition; usually the same person adds a link to the vanity page; this hasn't happened here. Maybe a reword should be in order --Dysprosia
- Delete. -戴&#30505sv
- Del. --Menchi 07:25, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. Andre Engels
- Delete. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 14:04, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Louis and Nicholas must be roomies. Delete bioth - Marshman 18:41, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Del. If we delete this (and Nicholas), we should de-wikify their names at Captcha, so that these stubs don't reappear. -- Minesweeper 01:22, Oct 8, 2003 (UTC)
- Keep. Both get hundreds of Google matches. Both have published papers. And if they are both mentioned at Captcha, then they are clearly of interest on the Wikipedia, too. So why shouldn't we have information on who they are? And, as well as campaigning against the term "unencyclopaedic", I'm going to start a campaign against the term "vanity page". As well as being blatantly offensive, it's irrelevant to the subject of deletion. Reagardless of whether or not the subject is suffering from a surfeit of vanity, information should be treated purely on its own merits. Is the information not verifiable? It appears to be, to me. That's the most (only?) important issue. -- Oliver P. 05:40, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep. Convinced by the weight of arguments by Ms. Dysprosia and Mr. Pereira. -- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen 13:12, Oct 9, 2003 (UTC)
- Save. Evaluation doesn't have to be crabbed. Given that there is no objective measure, no method for identifying the approporiate threshold, then we ought to be a bit more generous.

Nicholas J. Hopper - (vanity page)
- Delete. 戴&#30505sv
- Same pattern not followed above; again, maybe a reword needed Dysprosia
- Del. --Menchi 07:25, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. Andre Engels
- Delete. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 14:04, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Del. See note above. -- Minesweeper 01:22, Oct 8, 2003 (UTC)
- Again, hundreds of Google matches, and again mentioned in the Captcha article, so therefore must be of interest. See notes for Luis von Ahn above. The most (only?) important issue is whether or not the information is verifiable. -- Oliver P. 05:40, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep. Like previous entry. -- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen 13:12, Oct 9, 2003 (UTC)
- Save.

Meta-complex number (and Meta-complex Number redirect) - No hits on Google, hopefully someone can explain exactly what this is.. I mean.. umm.. I dunno. Maybe I'm just too tired to read it correctly. Evil saltine 13:17, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Probably best to call it original research, which is not what WP is about. I think the contributor is well-meaning so we shouldn't be too harsh on him but the content should be deleted. (P.S. It says: a meta-complex number is a pair such that each element of the pair is either a real number or another meta-complex number. It is possible to define a commutative multiplication operation on meta-complex numbers as follows... (I haven't checked whether that operation really is commutative)). Pete 13:34, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - Oh, okay, I thought it was talking about a pair of complex numbers. Evil saltine 13:37, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Seems a bit hard to read any of it, and agree it should go, but is it at all related to surreal numbers? Κσυπ Cyp 13:39, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC) (Posted via edit conflict.)
- Huh? If it can be folded into something else (somehow) that;s OK, but this article should go. And they did ask for help at the bottom of the article "I hope this is good. If is no good, tel me"-- BCorr ¤ Брайен 14:09, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)Брайен ]] 14:04, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - Seems this person is defining a set M, such that:
  - $R\subset M$
  - If $a,b\in m$ then $[a,b]\in M$
  - Which are then added and multiplied through:
  - $[a_{1},b_{1}]+[a_{2},b_{2}]=[a_{1}+b_{1},a_{2}+b_{2}]$
  - $[a_{1},b_{1}]\cdot [a_{2},b_{2}]=[a_{1}a_{2}-b_{1}b_{2},a_{1}b_{2}+a_{2}b_{1}]$
  - A real number $n$ behaves as if it were $[n,0]$ when multiplied with a non-real supercomplex number. Probably $x$ and $[x,0]$ should simply be identified, that might lead to nicer mathematical properties, but the induction is harder to define.
  - And yes, this multiplication is commutative, as can be easily shown through induction.
  - Still, this looks like original research rather than established mathematical definition (and is written quite badly too). Delete. Andre Engels 14:06, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - I made that page. I think that it shud not be deleted. The notes abuve is corect about wat it is about, maybe sumbudy shud just fix it and type it beter. If you want to delete it becuse the original research dusent go here, then tel me wy, and tel me were it dus go insted. - 24.207.69.51 23:57, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
    - Wikipedia is not a place for original research, in mathematics or any other field. It should go to any peer reviewed mathematics journal. Once it has been published in an appropriate place, it will become a suitable subject for an encyclopedia article.Vicki Rosenzweig 01:15, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- This is not original work. It describes the Cayley-Dickson construction. Other than the source code, it's a duplicate of (some of) that information. See also for example http://homepages.cwi.nl/~dik/english/mathematics/numc.html. Onebyone 10:01, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - It's clearly not supposed to be the Cayley-Dickson construction, since it claims that multiplication is commutative, which is not the case for Cayley-Dickson (beyond dimension 2). In any case, it's very poorly written and "meta-complex number" seems to be a made-up term, so it should be deleted. --Zundark 10:28, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - Good point. What is described by the code there is Cayley-Dickson (and hence not commutative) - a mistake by the author I guess. The actual structure discussed is the union to infinity of successive constructions, which is not an object I personally have seen discussed elsewhere. So maybe that's new, maybe not. Onebyone 10:05, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Mark Welch - looks like a vanity page -- Viajero 16:32, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Yes, and writing is not his forte. Looks more like a check list. Delete - Marshman 18:29, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. At18 19:53, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep. But this is going to need a radical amount of work. This isn't an article; it's like a poorly-done resume. --Daniel C. Boyer 00:13, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete if unchanged at the end of the VfD cycle. -- Cyan 04:37, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- There is NO reason to keep this kind of thing. Kosebamse 09:33, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

October 7

Beginnings of the 2003 California recall. This article just has duplicated, cutted-and-pasted text from the main article (2003 California recall), and furthermore from an old, more POV version. -- VV 23:09, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. Fuzheado 23:21, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. This page can possibly be re-instated when 2003 California recall becomes more final and then only if it grows too unwieldy. Unnecessary for now. -- Minesweeper 01:17, Oct 8, 2003 (UTC)
- Delete --Jiang
- Delete. -- Jake 08:53, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

October 8

XQ Mesa - This is a Justin Weaver article. Presumably he just forgot about it when he requested deletion of his other vanity pages. -- Cyan 04:43, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)

List of people who have had homosexual experiences
- I think this should be deleted, since it's not defined what exactly a homosexual experience is. However if someone could move this page to a more well-defined name that would be fine too. Evil saltine 04:50, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. --Daniel C. Boyer 00:11, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete.Ark30inf 04:53, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- So you want the title to be "People who have had orally or anally insertive homosexual sex experiences"? I think the title is pretty clear, it's not a matter of determining what "is" is. This is a list of people who may not necessarily define themselves as gay but who have stated that they have had same-sex sexual experiences. Keep, with or without a name change. -- Outerlimits 05:23, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. While similar lists may have been of some marginal benefit in making clear what is a useful article, they have ignited much useless debate and provided zero useful content. Kosebamse 05:30, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. Trollbait: verification can be difficult and contentious. -- Cyan 05:34, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. This is journalism, not encyclopedia material. Same goes for List of people who have bungie jumped and List of people with unresolved issues with their father if they ever appear. -- Onebyone 10:09, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. This list can never become complete or accurate. It's hopeless, so delete. Paige 16:57, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. What's the point? -- Viajero 17:52, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- DeleteSmith03 22:03, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. This is just nonsense.Vancouverguy 01:54, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep, only if the persons in the list actually described having one homosexual experience on press or television. Antonio The Puerto Rican Cigar Martin
- Delete. -- Jake 08:53, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

List of people who have denied being gay created by the same user as the previous. InanimateCarbonRod 04:51, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete.Ark30inf 04:53, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - Delete it because I created it? That's good solid reasoning. -- Outerlimits 04:55, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
    - That was not my reasoning as I am unfamiliar with you and didn't know who created it. Actually, I'm not sure what such lists accomplish, similar lists have become nothing but troll bait in the past.Ark30inf 05:09, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
      - Wikipedia is supposed to be able to keep trolls at bay. It shouldn't censor content "because trolls like it", and its a shame that in so censoring Wikipedia aligns itself with the trolls. -- Outerlimits 05:23, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep. Evil saltine 04:59, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Moved to publically denied to emphasize the content. Keep. BL 05:02, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep. -- Outerlimits 05:23, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete - see above. Kosebamse 05:30, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep under new title. More pop culture stuff, but what the hey... -- Cyan 05:34, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep. Let's at least see where it goes, right? Paige 16:57, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete Smith03 22:03, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. -- Viajero 17:52, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep. Vancouverguy 01:54, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete -- Fuzheado 08:32, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. -- Jake 08:53, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- All these "list of people who x" articles are stupid and pointless (I would have thought they are invasions of privacy as well). Adam 12:25, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Coptology - WINAD -- Cyan 05:37, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Somewhere I thought I saw this described as a "made up word" ? If that has changed just make this page a Redirect to Coptic; otherwise delete if not really a valid discipline. - Marshman 17:51, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Votes for deletion and Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion
- The votes for deletion system seems to me to be cumbersome, opaque and utterly "un-Wiki". I think it should be discontinued, and replaced by the far simpler, easier and more transparent Wiki system that has been suggested on meta:Talk:Deletion management redesign. Please also see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Deletion policy. GrahamN 12:11, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - I've read and commented on your proposal at Wikipedia_talk:Deletion policy and essentially agree with it. Of course under the better new world you're proposing, we wouldn't delete this page, we'd just blank it, or if we thought a lot of people might be interested in, and watching, this page, we'd just comment on the talk page that we intend to blank this page and blank it a little later if there is reasonable wiki-consensus to do so. In all seriousness, why does deletion have to be different from any other wiki-decision (thoughts to Wikipedia_talk:Deletion policy) Pete 13:32, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - We had this already: [1]
I vote to keep. But why were several votes favoring deletion removed here? -- Infrogmation 21:17, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Ecclesall Road - First ZIP-codes, now this. I LOVE saying: "I told you so!" -- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen 23:59, Oct 8, 2003 (UTC)
- I don't see the problem. Small articles like this one are created all over Wikipedia all of the time. Simply requires editing to bring it into the larger article where it makes more sense as it is not likely tat a whole lot will be written about this road. This was not an unusual situation in my experience. There are, for example, individual articles on each US interstate that probably should stay as separate articles. Your gloating is misplaced ;^) This is not a print media. - 24.94.82.245 05:57, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. The entries on US towns already occupy a substantial fraction of Wikipedia's articles - what will it be like if every street has one. If course if the street has a claim to fame it should stay. DJ Clayworth 17:47, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - To be clear, I agree. Delete after moving text into town article. - Marshman 17:59, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
    - Ecclesall Road is really a suburb as much as a road, suggest redirecting to Ecclesall and creating article on that around stub Warofdreams 18:23, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- This is not print media, but that doesn't mean that a billion articles is fine. And that's literally what we're headed toward. Out-of-control article proliferation is still a bad thing, for a number of reasons... (1) Searching is less accurate (2) Physical size of the database (3) Huge impediment if anyone ever actually wants to use Wikipedia as a base for a peer-reviewed encyclopedia, and many more. I'll try to write them up when I get a chance. Axlrosen 19:10, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)

October 9

Spectator Club - non-famous high school club. Evil saltine 01:50, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Also Lynbrook High School, the high school where the club exists. Adam Bishop 01:51, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - Keep high school. --Daniel C. Boyer 17:37, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - Delete both. I was trying to come here to list these last night when the database was locked. RickK 02:44, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - I'm not sure I see a problem with a crisp article about a particular High School, as this seems to be -- is there a particular policy about what levels of institution make acceptable entries (there are some High Schools that are more notable than some Colleges, for example)? The club article should be deleted, since there is a link to the HS website in the main article, where such transient details could go. Jgm 13:03, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
    - axe it, axe it good. Poor Yorick 02:48, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- I'm sympathetic to deletion, but a high school has a higher population than many other places with Wikipedia articles: list of places with fewer than ten people. Martin 11:46, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- I'm afraid I vote to keep both, merge info on club into article and keep as redirect. Inclusionism is getting to me. -- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen 14:48, Oct 9, 2003 (UTC)
- While it seems inconceivable that every school (highschool, secondary, etc.) should be in here, I really cannot think of any reason why not. Keep - Marshman 05:01, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC) Actually, I meant merge article into highschool and keep highschool article. - Marshman 06:01, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Yet another thing we need to decide on: Does every high school in the world belong in Wikipedia? Seems like we're going to need a formal policy on this kind of stuff. (I vote no.) Axlrosen 19:00, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - I would vote no as well...otherwise I'm going to have to write an article about my high school, it's famous because the former bass player for Kittie went there! Adam Bishop 21:21, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - I can suggest as a general rule: no schools below colleges. Place a link on the appropriate town article to the school's website instead. - Marshman 03:10, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Keep Lirath Q. Pynnor
- Delete the high school as well. There's nothing about it that makes it especially well known; maybe a better idea would be to put high schools on the respective town's page. Evil saltine 06:19, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Tristan Jones - vanity page Morwen 10:51, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- In case the author registers with a user account it should be moved there. I already contacted him by email. andy 10:57, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

James J Brown - looks like self-promotion of insignificant artist. --Wik 21:09, Oct 9, 2003 (UTC)
- Delete - I get more Google hits that he does. Axlrosen 18:57, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)

User:Cyan/Internet child pornography - this article was deleted prematurely, so I undeleted it and moved it to my user space. I have a feeling this one may become contentious, so let's do the commenting at User talk:Cyan/Internet child pornography -- Cyan 22:50, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Since the article no longer exists in either the normal wikipedia article or your talk page, we might as well delete this entry in the VofD page. User:Raul654 23:31, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Um, it is still available at the above link, as far as I can tell. I prefer this listing to remain here, so that people realize that a deletion debate is going on. -- Cyan 03:58, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)

October 10

Sadie Law - non-existent person; was having one of those moments when I typed the name in (should have been Sadie Frost, Jude Law's estranged wife.) Zannah 04:18, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- So why not just make it a redirect? Reason please? - Marshman 04:59, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. "Sadie Law" scores 77 on Google. "Sadie Law"+"Sadie Frost" scores 3, "Sadie Law"+"Jude Law" 12. Sadie Law isn't her name and never has been. An encyclopedia doesn't need an article/redirect for every possible mistake a user might make. -- Onebyone 09:38, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
  - Sorry. It is a simple matter to make it a Redirect and not take up space or time at VfD for this kind of mistake (which is one anyone could make - not a typo) - Marshman 17:44, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
    - But a redirect is still cruft. At some point someone might think that Sadie Frost is sometimes known as Sadie Law. If it's really a mistake on the part of the author, it seems like deleting it is better than leaving this redirect around until the end of time.
      - If the mistake was made once, it's a real mistake that will likely be made again, and redirs record the fix in the "community memory". If you're concerned and want to leave a breadcrumb, add a note to Talk:Sadie Law and Talk:Sadie Frost. Stan 23:47, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Image:Floppy disk 5.25 inch.jpg - mistake by me (real image is Image:Floppy disk 5.25 inch.JPG). Evil saltine 04:20, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Janet Lynn McCurdy. Non-famous. Angela 06:43, Oct 10, 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. Evil saltine 11:09, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Delete. Axlrosen 18:51, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Deeeleeete! Definitely not someone I'd wanna meeet! Antonio Hollywood Martin
- Delete. Orphan article, too. --Morven 20:38, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)

University Pro-Independence Federation, in Spanish, unwikified and point of view. Maybe it needs to be translated, but (my point of view here) is that this organization doesnt merit a wikipedia article. Antonio El Sensacional Martin

Remans - orphan -- Infrogmation 21:06, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- I just redirected it to Remus (Star Trek). Adam Bishop 22:43, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Cleanup -->>Wikipedia_talk:Cleanup

October 11

Hermann Wolff - Seems to be some useless biography of an Unimportant Person®. --snoyes 00:00, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

He certainly seems to be a real person - google search produces over 400 hits, mostly on pages regarding opera, music, etc. Remove the POV, perhaps, but otherwise the information seems perfectly acceptable. 80.255 02:12, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

R P Sandbox - I don't know where this should be, but surely not in the article namespace. Angela 00:23, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Mediation Committee - was a redirect to User:Mediator/candidates, which is inappropriate, since redirecting from the Wikipedia: namespace may appear to give it unwarranted authority. --Camembert 02:05, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Baltzar von Platen (1898-1984 - Account of involvement with von Platen whose correct page is here: Baltzar von Platen (1898-1984). --snoyes 05:49, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)