Talk:Rush Limbaugh

Larry, How do you state something like 'One thing causing contention is the difficulty many critics have discussing political issues objectively and not taking critical analysis of their favorite causes as a personal attack.'

I'm not sure we even want to say that. The critics, of course, will strongly disagree with the description of Rush's analysis as "objective." More importantly, you are insulting the critics. The critics certainly don't think they are reacting to a personal attack; they think they are refuting Rush using cold logic and obvious truths. You and I might or might not disagree with that, but the interests of polite discourse (even if it's discourse about impolite discourse) requires that we refrain from psychologizing about the shortcomings of critics.

The comment you make would be better placed in an article about the psychology and rhetoric of political discourse--which, I'm just guessing, is a topic on which none of us is actually expert enough to write anything worth reading. --Larry Sanger

I guess I should have added something about the rebuttal not being based on logic and using one or more unproven cliches.

Personally, I don't think that would do the trick either. Please see neutral point of view. --LMS

Someone put this link on the first page...it deserves to be on the talk page.

Anti-conservative web sites:

http://www.bartcop.com

Actually, I'd say anti-Rush (not anti-conservative) websites would be perfectly appropriate for Rush Limbaugh. Anti-conservative websites would be appropriate for political conservatism, just as anti-liberal websites would be appropriate for political liberalism.

Are there any conservative, anti-Limbaugh websites?

Don't know, but there are plenty of anti-Limbaugh conservatives (me for one). - ZSpinal 04:05, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

From the article:

His harshest critics can see that he is an excellent broadcaster.

This needs clarification to stand. --Robert Merkel 05:53 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)

In 1992, President George Bush made an appearance on Limbaugh's show as part of his re-election campaign.

Is there documentation for this somewhere? Beyond this needing more specificity (that it was George H. W. Bush and not George W. Bush), it would probably be more informative to note that while Rush's show is not based on guests (such as many talk shows), a number of notable political guests have appeared on his show, such as ... — Daniel Quinlan 05:39, Aug 25, 2003 (UTC)

Daniel, what's wrong with adding Bill Hicks' take on Limbaugh? [1] Many people find Limbaugh a deeply disturbing character and are suspicious of his personality. That's why I found the Bill Hicks stuff appropriate. Did I disrespect any of the Wikipedia rules? If so, then take it off by all means, but if not please re-revert. pir

Bill Hicks said a lot of things about famous people intended to provoke. I don't think that makes it appropriate content for an encyclopedia article. Not to mention that the content is just plain inappropriate and highly-charged POV. It's also not even factual or based in fact, it's a fantasy (involving sexual urination and defecation with other Republicans, no less) drawn out of Bill Hicks' imagination. I could find similar insulting fantasies about any number of political figures, I can't believe you're claiming that they're appropriate for this Wikipedia article. Daniel Quinlan 16:12, Sep 9, 2003 (EDT)

P.S. Please put new comments at the bottom of the talk article.

User:Zotz writes in a comment: I hope we never have to review his mockery of AIDS victims: presumably his drug abuse was oral, not intravenous.

I somehow doubt you really feel that way. Just the same, when did Rush Limbaugh mock AIDS victims? I know he has questioned aspects of the AIDS movement and I can provide quotes about that, but I'm sure you would prefer to focus the article on controversy and anything resembling hypocrisy.

Daniel Quinlan 03:26, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

Doubt if you wish, I know enough from personal experience with AIDS victims that I very, very sincerely would not wish the disease on the worst human imaginable. Rush's mockery of AIDS victims through his AIDS updates is one of the most disgusting things in his history: his mockery of AIDS victims is one of the reasons his first foray into television failed: After that mockery,his studio audience had to be removed before taping could continue. I sincerely hope that Rush's drug addiction causes him to become more tolerant of other's shortcomings. His past history suggests this is a forlorn hope. BUT personally, I wish him no ill: the AIDS victims he mocked will not be benefited by any ill he suffers. -- Zotz 03:36, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

It really does sound like you are happy about Rush having a drug problem and it seemed as though you wished he had AIDS. Nevertheless, I'm unaware of Rush ever mocking the victims of AIDS. He has talked some about the AIDS movement and how the media covers AIDS. Could you please provide a source with a good quote or a transcript? Daniel Quinlan 04:07, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

No, I have no such transcript. The first place for you track it down would be his first foray into television: it was nauseating. That Rush used "I Know I'll Never Love This Way Again" as his AIDS update theme really should require no additional comment. -- Zotz 04:15, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Addendum: additionally, I sincerely hope that Rush finds a solution that renders him pain free, and that he finds a physician who can provide him freedom from pain with no untoward drug effects. As sincerely, I hope that he learns that the fact that people do irrational things that harm them does not make them worthless people. -- Zotz 04:09, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

" a system where Rush could seem to be normally conversing with callers." What was the system exactly? Kingturtle 03:48, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

as far as I know, he's never revealed the details, but apparently there was a tape delay system whereby a screener could convey the essence of a caller's comments via computer screen to Rush (where Rush could read it), who would appear to answer the computerized communication as though it were auditory. --Zotz 03:52, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

My guess is that it was a combination of some sort of private closed-captioning (a fast typist/stenographer) combined with a short tape delay (and maybe some sort of hand-signaling so Rush could begin talking during a natural pause). Broadcasters generally use a tape delay of 3-5 seconds so profanity can be bleeped (I think it's normal to delay both the broadcaster and the caller), so delaying just the caller's audio would be trivial. Anyway, I heard the show during this period and sometimes there was a longer-than-usual (for Rush) pause between the caller finishing a thought and his response. I don't know if he ever said anything specific about the system, though. Daniel Quinlan 03:58, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

Any court reporter/stenographer worth his/her pay could easily transcribe callers' speech quickly enough to allow Limbaugh plenty of time to read and respond to it. - ZSpinal 04:05, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

But apparently not perfectly enough to be seamless. The strategem was readily apparent to any attentive listener, though it was only admitted to post facto. -- Zotz 04:19, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Strategem:

A military maneuver designed to deceive or surprise an enemy.
A clever, often underhanded scheme for achieving an objective.

Please read about Wikipedia's policy of presenting a neutral point of view. Attempting to characterize that Limbaugh views his listeners as an enemy, hiding heading loss as underhanded, etc. does not even come close. If you feel the need to editorialize, Wikipedia is not the right place. Daniel Quinlan 06:32, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

Thus, I have not changed "seem to converse" to "deceptively created the illusion of conversing with" to describe his deceiving, underhanded scheme... He knowingly lied to his listeners about his hearing loss. Any neutral observer would recognize that. -- Zotz 06:37, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

It's not what you haven't done, but that you have continually added the invective to (at least) this article. Daniel Quinlan 06:54, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

Calling a lie a lie is not invective. -- Zotz 07:02, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Anyhow, I thought it would be useful to point out how the system was not 100% perfect (as I pointed out earlier in this thread), so I added some text to that effect. It wasn't necessary to pitch the addition one way or the other. Daniel Quinlan 06:54, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

Okay, I'm done playing games for tonight. If Zotz adds his invective again to push his personal views, can someone please evaluate it vs. my last version. Thanks. Daniel Quinlan 07:06, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

The personal view that Rush lied about his hearing loss to his listeners??? It's cold, hard fact. Please also take into account that implying that lying about being able to hear (when you cannot) facilitates communication is disingenuous. -- Zotz 07:09, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I added this to my version: "Some critics of Rush contend that this episode and his month-long concealment of his deafness constitutes a lie. Most listeners of Rush do not feel that way." I think it's trite and unnecessary, but you are a critic and you seem to believe Rush needs to be declared a liar in his Wikipedia article, so it's true that some critics feel that way. That's as far as I can go to compromise with your invective. Daniel Quinlan 07:13, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)