Flame War

is there somewhere a link to that G1 vs G2 flame war ? IT would be quite interesting to read, and perhaps good addition to th article.

I'll probably add some of the Flame War, most likely the majority being Vinnie's amusing contributions to it, as cites later on. Currently, I'm still trying to dig up the last cite about the debate of Gnutella2's packet format vs. Gnutella's GGEP, but as I continue this search fruitlessly, I'm beginning to think that it took place either on the BearShare forums, or more likely the old Shareaza forums, both of which have been lost... when I give up (And remove the cite, because it's probably not going to come, and you'll just have to take my word for it as somebody who live through, participated in, and was an amused spectator of the whole spectacle) I'll probably compile a list of the various flames. -FrYGuY

I gave up on the one cite where Gnutella developers claimed that GGEP provided plenty of flexibility for Gnutella 0.6, and believe it was, in fact, on either the old Shareaza forums or the now defunct BearShare forums. I do offer my word that the claim is factual, but if that goes against the "No original research" rule it can be removed, as it's a pretty minor part of the article. Also, I have added some of Vinnie's more... colorful... contributions to the flame war as citations. -FrYGuY 03:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Clean up

I added a cleanup tag to this article since the majority of it seems to be written POV. Plus it just sounds bad. Needs an overhaul. Drano 09:56, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the cleanup tag. It's been there for two months. If you provide examples of what seems to be written in POV I'll happily change it, but until then the cleanup tag seems to just be clutter. -FrYGuY 06:19, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

History

I suggest removing the historic bits about the so-called flame war involving the lead developer of BearShare. First, it's a fart in the atmosphere adding no useful information. Second, it always was very obvious that Vinnie was making fun of the Shareaza fanboys posting there who could not abide any kind of criticism against the maker of their beloved Raza. By ripping this out of context and just pointing to certain posts, this might very well be lost on the reader. I find it obvious that this collection of links is only provided as slander. Not everyone has the same sense of humour and these posts certainly weren't the highlight of discussions at the GDF. Anyway, keep in mind that Wikipedia articles must be NPOV. By selectively pointing to certain posts, you are clearly in violation of this rule. As G2 is heavily based on discussions that took place at the GDF to which Vinnie Falco contributed like other Gnutella developers, you owe this guy just as much credit as any other discussion participant. At the very least, you could put this childish bickering to a rest. --82.141.60.211 18:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As a participant in that "so-called flame war", I can tell you that Vinnie was not "making fun" of people. He was pissed. He insulted the developer of Gnucleus, John Marshal (Swabby), the lead developer of Limewire, Adam Fisk, and one of Vinnie's own employees (Though that one was somewhat jokingly), along with people defending the decision (myself included). There was no real context... he honestly just started calling people various explitives, and his flame of Adam Fisk seemed to have happened because he was so angry he insulted even those on his own side. Slander? Well, ignoring the fact that slander in transitory use like speech, libel being what you seem to be implying, it's only slander or libel if it's false, defamatory, and believable by a reasonable person. Seeing as it's true, it does not meet those qualifications. As far as being NPOV, since the part of the article is the developer disputes which erupted, and the most notable and memorable part of those disputes was the flame war, and Vinnie's post being what made it a flame war, I believe it is notable. The thread is in those links, however, and you're more than welcome to add other developers flames, but the main problem with that is that it was a pretty one sided "war". Vinnie basically went ballistic, but everybody else, including Adam Fisk and Gregorio, who remained against Gnutella2, and John 'Swabby' Marshall, who remained supportive, all discussed their points with calmheadedness. The closest to a Flame from somebody other than Vinnie that I can think of would be this post... so feel free to add it.

So, in summation: I believe it to be NPOV because it's posting to basically the sole 'flamer', however the correct method of correcting this if you believe it to be otherwise would be adding links to non-Vinnie flamers. I believe it to be useful because I was specifically asked to add a section on the flame-war to the article, so clearly some people found it useful. If you find it to be distasteful, welcome to the club. So did I. So did many people. But that distasteful nature is part of the reason the schism between the two camps of developers was so severe, and thus in an entry on Gnutella2, it is quite notable. If you believe it to be "picking on Vinnie", then I can't do much against that other than to say that he contributed plenty to Gnutella over the years, mostly good, but THAT isn't notable in this article. Sometimes, a single negative contribution overshadows a lengthy beneficial career.

In that vein, I am now readding the second until you have a more persuasive reasoning than "it's mean" or "it's distasteful". Please keep in mind the old truth that the answer to bad speech is not no speech, but more speech. If you feel that the article sheds Vinnie in an unfair light, either add counter points if it fits in with this article, or add to Vinnie's article the many, many contributions he had to BearShare. -FrYGuY 07:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]