Talk:You forgot Poland
Actually Poland did participate in the initial invasion. According to some sources it was the elite Polish commando unit GROM that captured Umm Qasr, also another commando unit called Formoza took part in a number of operations though the details of those are still classified.
why is the picture removed two times? Sure, it's a joke picture, but it's usefull as an example about the Internet humor about the quote. --Mixcoatl 01:18, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Isn't it copyrighted? -- Kpalion 14:15, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- no --Mixcoatl 17:06, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I'm not an expert on American mentality, so I'd like to know -- and the article doesn't explain it -- why this quote is considered so funny. -- Kpalion 14:15, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Especially that, technically speaking, he did forgot Poland... But you know, everything related to that country is funny, no matter what. [[User:Halibutt|[[User:Halibutt|User:Halibutt/sig]]]] 15:36, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)
"But you know, everything related to that country is funny, no matter what."
How dare you insult my home country???
- I suppose this was meant to be ironic so don't treat it as an insult, dear anon. -- Kpalion 15:20, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Zgadza się, to miał być sarkazm. Cóż za ironia że zrozumieli to obcokrajowcy a nie swój... Tak czy siak - przepraszam za nieporozumienie. (translation for all those who do not speak Moorish: Indeed, it was meant to be sarcastic. Isn't it ironic that foreigners did catch that and one of ours didn't? Anyway - sorry for the misunderstanding). [[User:Halibutt|[[User:Halibutt|User:Halibutt/sig]]]] 21:55, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)
Explanation?
What on earth is that explanation doing there? It's funny because it alludes to Polack jokes? That just sounds like original research to me. I'm not American, and I found it funny without Polack jokes, because of the sheer absurdity of the contrast: Kerry mentions how few countries were in the coalition and how it shows a lack of international support, and Bush cleverly replies with "you forgot Poland" — not exactly a notable country in military terms. It has to be the most ineffective rebuttal ever. That's what made it funny for me, not some obscure allusion to an ethnic slur. I'd also wager far less people would have found it funny if they thought that was the case.
Don't explain jokes, unless you can source the explanation. Failing that, just accept that non-English visitors will have a hard time getting it. JRM 17:36, 2005 Jan 24 (UTC)
- In American culture, "Polack" jokes are not an obscure allusion. In many American blogs, when talking about the "You forgot Poland" line, references (sometimes oblique) are made to "Polack" jokes. Google something like "forgot Poland", "Bush", and "joke" to find some of these. ("Polack" is not a great search term, since it's spelled variously, and the word is non-PC and thus sometimes avoided.) One of the better riffs off of the "You forgot Poland" line:
- Q: What did the Polish say to George W. Bush?
- A: Hey, even we're not dumb enough to stay in Iraq.[1]
- "Polack" jokes, for better or worse, are part of the cultural context of "You forgot Poland", and leaving this out of the article leaves the reader less than adequately informed. However, my first pass at explaining this context does overstate the matter, so I'll have another go at it.--Kevin Myers 20:17, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)
Disputed factual accuracy.
I dispute that "many Americans believed that Poland was really not part of the invasion and that it was another laughable mistake by Bush" and would like to see some basis provided for this assertion. I can't speak for all Democrats but the ones I know that watched that debate knew full well that there were countries other than the US and the UK, simply that the contributions of the other countries (such as Poland) were insignificant (a handful of troops or a small amount of resources). The quote is not funny for the reason stated on the page. —Kelly Martin 21:04, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)
200
That's why it struck many of us as an odd remark. Poland initially allocated 200 troops for the invasion, a number that didn't give the impression of a ringing endorsement. iMeowbot~Mw
- So what is the true reason then? It seems to me that so many people found the quote funny, but everyone had a different reason for it. I tried to list some possible explanations which may be right or wrong (mind you, I'm not American and I don't find the quote funny myself):
- Poland did not participate in the invasion on Iraq (which, in fact, is false).
- Polish contribution to the invasion was insignificant.
- Bush could have come up with a better rebuttal.
- Bush doesn't really remember or care about Poland either.*
- "Poland" is an inherently funny word.
- Polacks are so dumb.
- Americans are so dumb.
- Any other ideas?
- (*) Although you could say that Bush did do his homework after Kwaśniewski told him a year ago that "especially before the election, there's millions and millions" of Polish-American voters.
- – Kpalion (talk) 00:36, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Was Carl Sagan of Polish ancestry?– MDC 07:05, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
Its ironical that this article was created by an user who also produced articles like that: Alfred J. Kwak :) So.. the answer could be nr 7? hmm... ;)--Emax 01:12, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)
- Mixcoatl put himself on the list of Wikipedians from Old Europe so I guess you can't call him a dumb American. Besides, it doesn't matter who started the article, what matters is if it's factually accurate or not. – Kpalion (talk) 01:49, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Indeed I'm not an American. I don't know for sure why the quote is (considered) funny, but 2 and 5 seem the most logical options to me. --Mixcoatl 01:53, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- I would never call someone an American dumb (except the Democrats voters ;)). Mixcoatl Pls. revert your user page - the Alfred Kwak article is very interesting, really, until today i did not know that Henk was a mole, Dolf a nazi and that Kwak lives in a clog! :)--Emax 03:01, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)
- Unless anyone has any clue as to how to establish which of these explanations is "factually accurate" (by being an American and stating which reason applied for you?), I suggest not explaining anything at all. The alternative is to add a lengthy, original research-y speculation piece on what reasons could apply. I don't like the sound of that. Can we, perchance, find sources in which people state exactly what was so funny about Bush's remark? Did this joke spread only on the Internet? If so, are the reasons for why still recorded? JRM 02:44, 2005 Jan 25 (UTC)
- The reason I found it funny at first was that Kerry's point was to say that not many countries were in the coalition - and Bush expands his three countries to four, still a low number. I.e, even if Kerry included Poland his point would be the same. The humor is magnified by the fact that Poland doesn't exactly have the reputation of being a military superpower. It kind of surprises me that people don't get it, maybe you have to be an American news-junkie/blogger type? Eh. --Tothebarricades 01:15, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
I rewrote the paragraph a bit. Is it better now? – Kpalion (talk) 21:07, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
A political slogan?
Why does the article call it a political slogan? I don't think the Bush administration uses this quote to their advantage on meetings or poster... it is rather some Internet meme or just old beating-around-the-bush.
Explaining my edits
Since this article was poorly sourced (which is to say, not at all), I put in some links and dates which should also help explain some of the social attraction to this meme. Specifically, that Poland was *not* part of the countries which had officially committed troops in the build-up to the war lasting several months, they were *not* part of the troops that began the invasion on March 20th, but they *were*, indeed, part of the March invasion, seeing combat action within 4 days after the invasion's beginning.
Hm. I suppose, in the interest of getting Kerry's words right, his statement should be corrected, as well. Ronabop 20:11, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Witty? Not necessarily NPOV
"George Bush is known for his witty remarks" -- personally, I think GW is "known" for a lot of things, but I'm not sure "witty remarks" is one of them. This line sounds like an opinion to me and not very neutral.