Wikipedia:Featured article review/Ernest Emerson/archive1

Ernest Emerson

Notified SandyGeorgia, Mike Searson, Alkivar, Fang Aili, Bradford44, Albatross2147, Orangemike

This article caused controversy when it was featured on the main page a few days ago. Since then, there's been discussion on the talk page and an abortive AfD. It is my opinion that this article falls short of our featured article criteria; it is neither neutral nor factually accurate and should be de-featured.

Unreliable sources. Some of the claims are sourced from sources which are unambiguously unreliable. The section dealing with his martial arts career uses Emerson's self-written testimonial for his martial arts club for a source. Note it includes a dubious anecdote about Emerson's fighting instruction saving a firefighter's life, though thankfully this is not reproduced in the article. Emerson's fighting credentials as 'Hand-to-hand Combat Instructor for H&K Defense Group' and 'Director of the Combat Research and Development Group' are sourced from a blurb from a police equipment expo. There is no reason to believe that this is anything other than advertising. The testimony of one of Emerson's employees urging the government of Nevada to allow the sale of Emerson knives is also used to back up Emerson's teaching credentials. The only source for the claims that Emerson knives are used in upcoming films John Rambo and Alien Vs Predator 2 is Emerson's newsletter. Some of the other 'sightings' of Emerson knives in films are unsourced.

Questionable sources. Several editors have stated that the knife magazines which constitute the overwhelming bulk of the sourcing are advertorial in nature, though the article's defenders deny this. Some of the articles are available online, many on Emerson's site. I invite editors to read them and make up their own mind: [1], [2], [3], [4]. Lampman remarked that the article has not one word of criticism, and this is true. But it is only following the sources, which are considerably more gushing in their seemingly endless praise of Emerson. American Handgunner states that "So popular are his knives among elite and clandestine forces worldwide, they are often traded on the black-market as barter for goods and favors." One wonders what editorial oversight and fact-checking process these articles have gone through, if any.

Inadequately sourced grand claims. Emerson supplying the US Navy SEALs is sourced from a published book, Weapons of the Navy SEALs, although article inexplicably uses this only twice, preferring to rely on the magazines instead. The claims about supplying other special forces and police are nowhere near as compelling. For example, all we have is say-so in the magazines that Emerson knives are used by the SAS. This is a strong claim, and needs more convincing sourcing; a book about the SAS would ideal. On his website, Emerson says that "Emerson Knives has long had a relationship with certain elements of the British SAS, albeit a secret one. Well, a secret it shall remain, until someday when books can be written and perhaps we shall all sit around, tip a pint a two and have a chance to tell our tall tales." Lucky it's not so secret that he can't talk about it. One wonders what these 'certain elements' are. In any case, in the absence of any stronger evidence that the SAS use these knives, we should not assume that they do.
We are told that Emerson has supplied knives to NASA (they 'approached' him) for use on the Space Shuttle and the ISS. The article claims that his knife replaced the Randall Model 17 Astronaut Knife, although a Google search reveals that the Randall was only ever used on the early Mercury missions, so this is incorrect. The sources for the NASA claims include a personal website and Emerson's site, where we are told that NASA never endorses any products, so conveniently they will never confirm the use of this knife. There is no evidence whatsoever that this knife has ever been used in space, despite what the intro says. Note that the picture of the 'NASA knife' just shows a knife next to a commercially available NASA patch, without any logo.
We are told that Emerson's wife, Mary, is one of the world's foremost female practitioners of Jujitsu. There is no solid evidence for this.
Emerson's fighting style, Emerson Combat Systems, is described mostly from Emerson's own words or from blurbs in knife magazines. There is no real information about the uptake or acceptance of this fighting style, we are only told that 'hundreds' of 'law enforcement agencies, members of the US military and civilians' have been trained in this fighting style. Were the police and soldiers were trained as part of their jobs, or simply in a personal capacity (as civilians)? The guarded wording and lack of confirming sources suggests the latter.

In closing, I would ask editors to consider whether this article would be featured if it was about a minor politician, using criticism-free sources and repeating grand claims without a hint of doubt.--Nydas^(Talk) 17:14, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment there is a link of a video of Russian astronauts using the Emerson-made NASA knife on the Space Station, an additional reference is a press release within the article, I suppose you could also ask former SEAL and astronaut William Shepherd, here's a picture of Emerson and Allen together at the SHOT Show in Las Vegas with the press release on the NASA knife: [5] The use of various knives used by the SEALs is also well-documented in Richard Marcinko's books, Denny Chalker's books and I would think sworn testimony in a hearing would be a reliable secondary source as it's given under oath and it also coroborates who uses his knives. The "Martial Arts Club" you refer to is the school owned by Richard Bustillo, one of Bruce Lee's original students and is used to corroborate that Emerson was a student there. What you cite as "unreliable" are being used as secondary sources...and in some cases much more than merely secondary, such as when 12 different articles make the same claims. --Mike Searson 17:35, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]