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Talk:Inquisition

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Danny (talk | contribs) at 15:03, 27 February 2002. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Gosh I'd love to know what you're reading about this. DO tell me you're not writing off the top of your head. Let me suggest E.F. Peters on the Spanish Inquisition - a useful contemporary source. If you're reading ANYTHING written by a 19th century English speaker (especially if his name is Lea), you are toying with the Leyenda Negra. --MichaelTinkler In fact, skimming back through earlier versions, someone had a pretty good version of the converso problem. I wonder why it disappeared? --MichaelTinkler

Which inquisition murdered Jan Hus? --AxelBoldt

not an inquisition at all, but the Council of Constance. The Conciliar movement wasn't all it was cracked up to be by 19th century historians. --MichaelTinkler

this is worse than it used to be. "Resistance was usually futile." Tell it to the popes! The Arian situation was NOT solved by the Council of Nicaea. In fact, because of imperial patronage Arianism became the variety of Christianity most consistently supported by the government for the next 50 or so years. Constantine didn't make Christianity the state religion - that was Theodosius I in the 380s. --MichaelTinkler


Removed from entry:

In the first two centuries after Jesus Christ, many sects with wildly differing beliefs could call themselves Christian, and no one could authoritatively contradict them. However, after Emperor Constantine I legalized Christianity and the various local administrations were subordinated to the hierarchy centered in Rome, arguments could be resolved by Church Councils. The first such council, which had the most extensive effects, was the Council of Nicea, which formulated the Nicean Creed in 325. Those whose beliefs or practices deviated sufficiently from the orthodoxy of that Creed and other rulings of the councils could now be made "brought back to the fold" by the shepherd of the Church. Resistance was usually futile.

See my comments above. I tried revising it (e.g., changing 'established as state church' to 'legalized') but then I realized that it's too messy to rewrite. I'll try something on the entry. --MichaelTinkler

What happened to NPOV? Yes, the Inquistions to us are pretty scary, but could we please try to remember that, to the vast majority of people living at the time of the first two Inquisitions discussed in this article, heresy was a BAD thing. Heresy existed, and not because of some conspiracy by Authority. Heretics not only went to hell, but their very presence in society put others at risk. At least, that's how your average medieval Christian would see it. CONTEXT IS IMPORTANT. JHK

Heresy is only a problem for religions that have centrally defined doctrines and dogma.

I removed this, because the article is about the Inquistions. This should be in an article about heresy. --STG


Dmerill, why do you think links to Amazon support the NPOV? I think one could easily make the opposite case. Personally, I try to stay away from ISBN's altogether, because they tend to encourage people to buy the books rather than to just go to their library. Libraries typically don't use ISBN's, which is good, because ISBN's distinguish between different editions, hard- and softcover etc., which are usually irrelevant distinctions. --AxelBoldt

I would also encourage people to go to their library, but "encouraging" anything is by definition non-npov, isn't it? I'd be most happy to see us start listing the Dewey decimal catalog number as well so we aren't encouraging either way. And LC, below, is right on target. It's the specific, stated intention of removing Amazon that was most non-npov. And adding a wider selection of sources would be very, very welcome, but singling out anyone, however, vile I consider their business practices, is not npov. Sometimes it's hard to stand by a principle like npov when you'd rather say "fuck Amazon", but I'm trying to do that. --Dmerrill
The software is non-NPOV in that it singles out some booksellers over others and over libraries. Intentionally removing a non-NPOV feature can hardly be called non-NPOV. Without the ISBN links, the article is clearly more neutral than with them. --AxelBoldt
I agree, as things stand it is not completely npov. As I understand it, when something is npov due to only having partial, one-side information, the solution is to round it out rather than delete what's there. That is, imho, what we need to do here. --Dmerrill

I find the links very useful. With a single click, I can see the year the book was published, how long it is, some indication of the intended audience (popular vs. technical), and a list of reviews. This is usually more info than would be appropriate in the Wikipedia article itself, but it's nice to have such easy access to it.

A think the NPOV comment was referring to the fact that it links to all 3 of the largest booksellers, rather than just the 2 that aren't disliked by some people here. Personally, I'd like to see the software changed to be even more NPOV, and to look better. The ISBN should be a single link to a CGI script on wikipedia.com that then brings up a list of every bookseller we know of. Someday, it might even automatically bring up the ISBNs of other editions of the same book. I assume we'll have all this in the software eventually, so it's useful to use the ISBN notation in articles we write now. --LC

As another general criticsm of ISBN's: suppose you want to refer to Plato's dialogs or Euclid's elements. What ISBN do you list? There are dozens of editions. There's a good reason that libraries use title and author. --AxelBoldt

Agreed. I'd propose listing all currently available ISBNs, although that will require a change to the software. Perhaps the ISBN link redirects to a page which lists all the alternate ISBNs. Let people include any edition they recommend. Once again, when something is npov due to having only partial information, the solution is to round it out rather than delete what's there. --Dmerrill

"Jews or Muslims who did not become Christians were never subjected to the powers of the Inquisition." This is a tad misleading. The reason they were not subjected to the Spanish Inquisition is because they were expelled in 1492. Danny

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