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Wikipedia:Proposed update of MediaWiki:Tagline

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Mattflaschen (talk | contribs) at 04:44, 16 August 2005 (→Support FOR adding second tagline: first vote!). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

What is being proposed?

Update the current top text on every page:

  • "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia."
    --Current

to the proposed top text on every page:

  • "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia."              "All articles are user-provided."
    --Proposed

by...

  1. Leaving the existing MediaWiki:Tagline as is at the top left of every page.
  2. Adding a new MediaWiki talk:Tagline2 at the top-right of every page:
REFERENCE: MediaZilla change request

See below for all proposals to date and reasons for and against.

  • Version 15 is the primary proposal as of 08-15-2005.
  • Version 12 was the primary proposal as of 08-11-2005.
  • Version 1 was the primary proposal as of 08-04-2005.

PLEASE POST COMMENTS HERE

Interested contributers please comment in appropriate section below. Please sign with ~~~~

Support FOR adding second tagline

  1. Superm401 | Talk 04:44, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Support for NOT adding second tagline

Other

Why this page was created

This page was created per Wikipedia:How_to_create_policy#How_to_propose_a_new_policy.

The proposed tagline change is not a full-blown policy but is more than a simple tagline edit change, as it affects all pages and reflects on the community's sense of what Wikipedia is. Changes that have been attempted on the tagline have been reverted. Different changes are being proposed for different reasons. A collection and summary of discussions across the several areas seems needed. Please help by collecting input in one place.

Background

The proposal has been updated so as to:

  • visually separate the text from the main tagline
  • not put links or italics in the text
  • not use the word "disclaimer" in the text
  • not use the words "collaborative process" in the text.

The proposal meets the key reason for proposing the change, which is:

  • DO advise readers that articles are user-contributed per WikiPedia vs. traditional encyclopedia style.

The current proposal addresses primary objections to earlier proposals which were:

  • do not scare off readers
  • do not change the traditional tagline
  • do not be too lengthy
  • do not distract from the main page content.

This proposal grew out of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). The concern was that many readers did not understand the differences between Wikipedia and traditional encyclopedias. This is especially a concern when people may rely on the accuracy of a Wikipedia article, not realizing how Wikipedia is created. There is a disclaimer link at the bottom of every page, but most readers will not notice it and fewer still follow it up.

Articles published in traditional encyclopedias represent the "official" output of the organization, and have gone through some kind of formal review for accuracy and style. This does not guarantee perfection, but readers know that the publisher has made some attempt to utilize knowledgeable experts, carefully reviews any changes/updates, and stands behind its work. Wikipedia is different. Articles can be written by anyone, editors are not selected according to their credentials, articles can be changed often, and there is no formal approval process. On the other hand, Wikipedia relies on collaboration to improve the accuracy of articles (which is generally very good), content is more relevant and up-to-date, there is tremendous breadth, and it's free.

After some discussion, the proposed additional tagline was developed with the idea of incorporating it with the current tagline at the top of each page. The purpose is not to apologize for possible inaccuracies in articles, but to make the Wikipedia distinction clear.

Summary of proposed change versions

  • "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia."
    --Current Version
  • DISCUSSION: No mention of user-provided, collaborative effort, or disclaimer.
  • "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia."   "All material provided free by users and cannot be guaranteed."
    --Proposed Change Version 17
  • DISCUSSION: warn no guarantee.
  • This would scare users away (see "reasons against #1" below about not using word "disclaimer" at top)
  • Wording is lengthy (see "reasons against numbers 4 and 7" below about keeping second tagline short and simple)
  • "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia."              "All material provided free but at readers own risk."
    --Proposed Change Version 16
  • DISCUSSION: Emphasise readers risk.
  • This would scare users away (see "reasons against #1" below about not using word "disclaimer" at top)
  • "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia."              "All articles are user-provided."
    --Proposed Change Version 15
  • DISCUSSION: Remove "collaborative effort".
  • "Disclaimer"
    --Proposed Change Version 14
  • "Disclaimer"
    --Proposed Change Version 13
  • DISCUSSION: Add disclaimer link to User toolbar between my "my contributions" and "logout".
  • "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia."              "All articles are user-provided in a collaborative effort."
    --Proposed Change Version 12
  • DISCUSSION: Disclaimer text is separated from tagline.
  • "From Wikipedia."
    --Proposed Change Version 11
  • DISCUSSION: Drops all qualifiers. "Less is more." "Be bold." "Never complain, never explain."
  • "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit."
    --Proposed Change Version 10
  • DISCUSSION: Mentions anyone can edit. No disclaimer.
    "Anyone can edit" makes the mode of operation more prominent.
  • "Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit."
    --Proposed Change Version 9
  • DISCUSSION: Says "Welcome to" instead of "From". Mentions anyone can edit. No disclaimer.
  • "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. All articles are user-provided."
    --Proposed Change Version 8
  • DISCUSSION: Mentions anyone can edit and user-provided. No disclaimer.
    "User-provided" makes the source of articles more prominent.
  • "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. See disclaimer."
    --Proposed Change Version 7
  • DISCUSSION: Mentions anyone can edit and disclaimer.
  • "Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. See disclaimer."
    --Proposed Change Version 6
  • DISCUSSION: Says "Welcome to" instead of "From". Mentions anyone can edit and disclaimer. No links.
  • DISCUSSION: Includes links to editing introduction and disclaimer.
  • "Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit."
    --Proposed Change Version 4
  • DISCUSSION: Includes link to editing introduction. No disclaimer.
  • "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Articles are user-created in a collaborative effort. See disclaimer."
    --Proposed Change Version 3
  • DISCUSSION: Mentions user-created and collaborative effort and includes link to disclaimer.
  • "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. See disclaimer details."
    --Proposed Change Version 2
  • DISCUSSION: Mentions anyone can edit and includes link to disclaimer.
  • "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. All articles are user-provided in a collaborative effort. See disclaimer details."
    --Proposed Change Version 1
  • DISCUSSION: Mentions user-provided and collaborative effort and includes link to disclaimer.
  • "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ON WHEELS!!"
  • DISCUSSION: Humor

Contributers and articles that support adding the disclaimer more prominently

  • Contributers supporting adding the disclaimer more prominently on Wikipedia pages please:
    Cite example articles below, 2. Sign using ~~~~

Summary of reasons FOR change

1: The proposal provides enough information to inform the user that the articles are not formally vetted.

  • This is one of the key reasons (if not THE key reason, based on the Village pump discussion) why the tagline should be updated. Readers need to better understand the nature of Wikipedia.

2: The proposal puts the link to the full disclaimer in a prominent place where people are more likely to check it out. (NOTE: Version 15 removes the word "disclaimer" from the text)

  • The current Wikipedia:General disclaimer is quite thorough and linked to from the bottom of every page, however, it is not very visible.
  • It is important to mention the disclaimer more visibly so that (for example) elementary school students using Wikipedia are prompted to think about the quality of information provided on each page.
  • Also, people shouldn't have to read the fine print to understand the basics of how Wikipedia articles are created. A simple disclaimer statement at the top would avoid misunderstandings, and the details can be left to the Wikipedia:General disclaimer.
  • The disclaimer is not a sign of weakness. It is a statement that says, "Think!". Every university hopes that the one lesson their graduates take with them is to think! Wikipedia would be helping to get that message across by making the disclaimer more prominent.

3: The proposal emphasizes the difference between Wikipedia and traditional encyclopedias

  • The current tagline IS short and positive and emphasizes a valuable aspect of Wikipedia, that it is free.
  • The current tagline does NOT emphasize that articles are user-contributed.
    • "User-contributed" advises readers that articles are different from a conventional encyclopedia.
  • The current tagline does not emphasize that anyone can contribute.
  • It does not explain the meaning of "free" (free as in beer, free as in GNU, free as in write about whatever you want, free as in intellectual freedom).

4: The proposal is short enough to include at the top of every page.

5: The proposal is a positive statement.

  • Emphasizes the collaborative nature of user-provided articles. Even though there is no formal approval, collaboratively edited articles are generally very good. (NOTE: Version 15 removes the words "collaborative process".)

Summary of reasons AGAINST change

1: It makes the disclaimer too prominent.

  • We don't need to link to the disclaimer, necessarily. We don't want to scare them off. We just have to make sure new visitors realize the nature of the wiki:
Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.
  • We should not lack self-confidence and feel we have to put a disclaimer on everything.
Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
  • DISCUSSION: Adding the link to Wikipedia:Introduction does help emphasize the collaborative nature of Wikipedia. But leaving off the link to Wikipedia:General disclaimer doesn't inform the user that articles are not formally vetted, which is a major reason for the proposed change.

2: Tradition

  • DISCUSSION: Tradition may be changed to meet the needs of the day. (see tradition)

3: It doesn't scan/rhyme as well as "...Wikipedia ...encyclopedia."

  • The proposed alternatives are aesthetically awful.
    Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
  • DISCUSSION: A proposed variation is:
    "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. See disclaimer details."
    • It does not emphasize the collaborative nature of Wikipedia, but it is certainly shorter, and it flows better that the original proposal since it is just one line.

4: It takes extra space at the top of a page (a 2nd line)

  • DISCUSSION: Maybe it could be shortened to fit on one line?
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Articles are user-created in a collaborative effort. See disclaimer.

5: It already says "Welcome to Wikipedia, the free-content encyclopedia that anyone can edit." on the Main Page

  • DISCUSSION: Users coming in on direct article links (e.g. from Google searches) will not see this statement.

6: Links in the tagline distract from the article.

7: Less is more; Keep it simple, stupid.

8: It sounds too bookish.

  • DISCUSSION: "Bookish: learned, giving sources and authority". Yep, that's what's wanted.

(If there is another location where it should be announced, please go right ahead and announce it there.)

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