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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 82.208.206.114 (talk) at 13:57, 14 September 2005. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Welcome, and image licensing

Hi Panonian, welcome to Wikipedia.

The image Image:Voj szerem.gif will have to be removed because it has a copyright notice on it and no license. That means that its owner did not give us any rights to reproduce or distribute it, and we cannot legally keep it.

Note that the copyright extends to the drawing of the map, not to the map contents itself. The information on the map may be older than 70 years (and thus public domain), but someone made the effort to draw the map with modern-day tools and their work remains theirs.

Of course, if you can find a free license for that image, please do. When you do, edit the image description page and add this information there.

The images Image:Voj torontal.gif and Image:Voj bacs.gif look like they came from the same source, so they are in the same trouble.

The image Image:Banat 1870 sduk.jpg looks like a map extracted from a larger map drawn a hundred years ago -- but it still has no obvious source information, so you need to provide one in order for us to mark it public domain.

Image:Map02.jpg seems like something made recently, so it also lacks a license.

Please tend to these issues soon, because it's a violation of Wikipedia policy to upload copyrighted material without a license.

Good luck. --Joy [shallot] 12:05, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

For Joy:

Since I collecting maps, I have more then 7000 maps in my computer. These maps are from my collection. I found these maps on Internet, but I didn’t remember Internet address where I found them, so I can’t tell you more about licence for those maps (I can only tell you that these maps were free for download, if this helps). If that maps are problem, then you are free to delete them, and I will find and upload another maps with no licence problem.

PANONIAN

Thanks for replying. I guess those unlicensed maps will be removed eventually. As soon as you can find free maps, please don't hesitate to upload them instead. --Joy [shallot] 21:05, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I already uploaded new maps and put them instead of those problematic ones. So, you can now delete those 5 maps. I hope that new maps are not the problem. PANONIAN

Please upload the old version of the map

PANONIAN: could you please upload the old version of the DAI map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cpw10ct.gif), the one that existed before Joy's changes? Also, I would suggest you take a look at the Chronicle of the Priest of Duklja map as well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Abd12ct.gif) - that one can also be useful for studying the early medieval history of the Serbs. Thanks.

He really destroyed this map. I do not want to have more argue with Joy about this issue, but I will tell you how to bring the old map back. The old version of map is still there, you just have to revert it. Go to image page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cpw10ct.gif

Now, when you are there, you will see this:

(del) (rev) 19:30, 3 Aug 2004 . . Jwalker (194337 bytes) (Constantine Porphyrogenitus and his world, De Administrando Imperio, 10-th century)

You just have to click to (rev) button and the old map will be back. PANONIAN

  • I believe you need to have an account/be signed in to revert an image. I am an occasional visitor/contributor to Wikipedia at best, and never thought about opening an account - that is why I asked.

It is very easy to make one account, just type your username and password and you will become user (It is completely free). PANONIAN

Hello there. I am going through some of the untagged images and attempting to tag them. In your case, you put "historic map" on several of the maps, but they do not have tags. The tag page is at Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags For now, I just put unverified tags on them. Someone else will probably delete those if this is not rectified soon. --Woohookitty 08:48, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

One of the Chechnya maps on the internet

Here you are, please [1]--BIR 08:35, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Pozdrav

Na nemačkoj Wikipediji zamolio si me da ti ostavim nešto o Belošu. Ovde imaš nekoliko izvora, jednom na mađarskim i onda kroz translator preveden na engleski jezik. Da je pomenuti Beloš, sin srpskog velikog župana Uroša I., brat ugarske kraljice Jelene i ujak ugarskom kralju Geizi II., bio jedno vreme ban Hrvatske odnosno Slavonije (jedni izvore govore da je bio ban Slavonije, drugi opet da je bio ban Hrvatske - trebalo bi se više potražiti), o tome govore i sami Hrvati, ali naravno na njihov način.

Šta se tiče Mačve i Srema, Srem je sve do 13. veka obuhvatao i Mačvu. Tj. Mačva je pripadala (ili se isto zvala) Donjim Sremom, dok je Gornji Srem ono što danas nazivamo Srem, tj. manje ili više današnji Srem između Save i Dunava. Tako na primer srpski arhiepiskop i naslednik Svetog Save bio je Arsenije Sremac, poreklom iz Donjeg Srema. Tu je recimo i problematika tačne definicije granica takozvane Sremske kraljevine Dragutina Nemanjića, pošto se ne zna sigurno da li je Dragutin dobio ceo Srem, ili samo Donji Srem, dakle Srem ili Mačvu južno od Save. Isto može da važi naravno i za Beloša, ovde da budem iskren još nemam dovoljno informacija.

Moj engleski inače nije baš najbolji, tako da tebi ostavljam da od ovoga nešto pametno uradi..

Belos

(12. sz.): horvát-dalmát bán, nádor (1145-57). Uros szerb fejedelem fia, Ilona királyné öccse. Már II. Béla idejében a m. udvarban élt. Béla halálakor II. Géza kir. gyámjává lett, s a nádori tisztséget is viselte. Részt vett a Jasomirgott Henrik osztrák hg. elleni hadjáratban, és nagy része volt az 1146. szept. 11-én kivívott győzelemben. Amikor Lukács érsek befolyása megszüntette addigi hatalmát, IV. Istvánnal együtt Bizáncba menekült és onnan vele együtt tért vissza. Kőn (Szerém vm.) kolostort alapított, melyet ~ról Bánmonostorának neveztek el.

http://www.kereso.hu/yrk/Ryrgenwm/1426

(12. cent.): croat - dalmatian rues , palatine (1145-57). Uros Serbian monarchs his son Ilona queen her younger brothers. Already II. Béla in time the m. yard she was alive. Béla halálakor II. Géza kir. gyámjává lett s the palatine function also did she wear it. She took part the Jasomirgott Henry Austrian hg. counter-claim military expedition , and mickle part of her it had been the 1146. szept. 11- am I achieve victory. When Lukács archbishop heft disannul up to its power IV. Istvánnal together Byzantine refugee and from there with it together tért back. Kőn ( unpretending vm. ) cloister instituted , which ról Bánmonostorának call off.

http://www.hupi.hr/povijest/banovi.html

Svako dobro - Carski sa nemačke wikipedije!

Hello

Hi Panonski! Are you interested to write one good aricle of Vojvodina on Serbian Wikipedia? Pokrajac.

Hello, You are uploading images that are copyright. Images of statues. Unless you took the picture yourself, or unless you can provide information on who took the picture (ie. the source), and they have released it into the public domain, it is copyright. All images on the Internet are automatically copyright. You are personally responsible for the images you upload. If someone wants to sue you, they can, it is you who broke the copyright law. As I come across them I am marking them as {no source}, it is for your protection. Please be careful about uploading images. Stbalbach 19:34, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Re: Capitals of Hungary

Ma, kad bolje pogledam, ja sam to već jednom bio ispravljao, a sada sam dokrajčio. Nije nužno krađa povijesti (always assume good faith :) ), ali je toliko tangencijalno da ne može biti nego fusnota.

Mislim i da je korisnik koji je originalno stvorio stranicu možda pogriješio u izboru prijedloga - umjesto "of" je mogao napisati "in", pa bi onda stranica bila donekle sukladnija sa svojim naslovom, iako bi je i tada trebalo preimenovati u nešto tipa "Capitals of territorial units that were or are located on the territory of former or present-day Hungary". :)

Sličnu stvar recimo imamo na List of Croatians gdje je jedan anonimni korisnik mjesecima inzistirao da se ljudi koji su bili iz rimskih provincija na području koje je kasnije postala Hrvatska popišu pod "Croatians", unatoč jednostavnoj činjenici da taj toponim tada jednostavno nije postojao. Na kraju sam ostavio zadnji odjeljak u tom članku da sadrži popis i takvih, ali sa jasnim ogradama što se tiče naslova. U tom članku je to bilo samo još soli na ranu budući da su razni analfabeti istovremeno odbijali prihvatiti da na engleskom jeziku "Croatians" ne znači "Hrvati" nego "ljudi iz Hrvatske" neovisno o nacionalnosti.

Mislim da ne trebaš praviti Capitals of Vojvodina kao zaseban članak, to može biti i odjeljak unutar nekakvog History of Vojvodina članka, jer Vojvodina vjerojatno nije imala toliko puno prijestolnica. --Joy [shallot] 16:11, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Dva su problema - semantika, i prezentacija.
Postoji bitna semantička razlika između pojmova povijesti nekog pojma i glavnih gradova neke države. Nitko neće zamjeriti ako uvod u povijest Srbije ili Mađarske ili bilo koje druge države uvrstimo pregled događanja prije uvođenja navedenog toponima. Ali navođenje rimskih gradova kao "prijestolnica Mađarske" (to je prijevod "capitals of Hungary") je jednostavno krivo. Pojam glavnog grada u ovom naslovu — riječ "capital" — nije vezana za teritorij, nego za državu i vladu. Te prijašnje teritorijalne jedinice nisu bile vezane za mađarsku državu ni mađarsku vladu. Ti gradovi se mogu navesti da su bili "prijestolnice područja koje je kasnije postalo Mađarskom", ali to je ipak nešto drugo. Primijeti da sam u History of Croatia ja takve stvari odvojio u Croatia before the Croats, tako da se slučajno ne brka s ostalim.
Druga stvar je prezentacija. Ne može članak "Capitals of Hungary" prvo pisati nadugo i naširoko o prijestolnicama koje su prethodile actual capitals of Hungary, a onda prijeći na potonje i reći svega par riječi o njima. Mislim, ono, ona sekcija je bila duža od ostatka teksta, to je upravo blesavo. Ako se napiše deset kilobajta teksta o stvarnim mađarskim prijestolnicama, i ovaj podugi uvod o rimskim provincijama postane minoran i izbaci u zasebno poglavlje ili čak podstranicu, to je prihvatljivo.
--Joy [shallot] 10:01, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. THanks for offering but someone already did it. It is now in Serbian as well as 18 other languages. Thanks again. Danny 21:31, 21 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Image source

Thank you for uploading Image:Sremska kamenica.jpg. Its copyright status is unclear, so it may have to be deleted. Please leave a note on the image page about the source of the image. Thank you.

Image source

Thank you for uploading Image:Sremski Karlovci.GIF. Its copyright status is unclear, so it may have to be deleted. Please leave a note on the image page about the source of the image. Thank you.

Hi. Please see Copyright problems#June 5 where I have listed Josif Rajacic and Stevan Supljikac as potential copyright violations. Please comment there if you believe we have any legal basis to use text from this website. Also, could you clarify the origin of Image:Josif Rajacic.jpg and Image:Stevan Supljikac.gif? Thanks, Bovlb 10:22, 2005 Jun 5 (UTC)

Looking at that website, I can't see any explicit copyright notice or other licence, which means that by default we must assume it is copyrighted. Wikipedia's content is released under the GFDL, and we cannot in general just take information wholesale from other websites. The facts contained cannot be copyrighted, however, so we may read other websites and paraphrase the information. See Wikipedia:Copyrights#Using copyrighted work from others, Wikipedia:Copyright FAQ, and Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ#Copyrights for more details.

Regarding the images, it's possible that the other website is using out of copyright images which we may use. See Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ#I have an out-of-copyright image (or text) that is reproduced in an in-copyright book. Can I scan/type it into Wikipedia?.

On the positive side, so far as I can tell, the people running this site seem to be a small, friendly group that is interested in spreading historical information about their town. They may be amenable to releasing their work under the GFDL, and may even be interested in becoming Wikipedia contributors. One point I note is that your English language skills are better that theirs, so they may be glad to see their work copyedited and improved, especially if you're able to assist them with the translation from Serbian (or whatever langauge that is). You might like to contact them. There's some advice on how to do that at Wikipedia:Boilerplate request for permission.

I'm sorry to pick on your contributions like this. I'm sure it must seem like a big hassle, but we have to be careful about such things. IANAL, but please let me know if you have any other questions. Bovlb 18:20, 2005 Jun 5 (UTC)

Your rewrites look good, although we would be better to cite sources; there's nothing wrong with using the original website for that. The instructions given at Wikipedia:Copyright problems suggest that we need to wait seven days (or more) for an administrator to delete the original page, and move the temp version in. This is so that the copyright infringement is not visible in the article history.

About the images, I'm not sure. I find the guidance at Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ#I have an out-of-copyright image (or text) that is reproduced in an in-copyright book. Can I scan/type it into Wikipedia? a little unclear. Clearly the images are old, but if the ones you uploaded are simply from the website, then maybe their scan of an out-of-copyright image is copyrightable.

Bovlb 15:10, 2005 Jun 6 (UTC)

Hi. I notice that 212.200.107.215 (presumably you) has copied the contents of Josif Rajacic/Temp into Josif Rajacic with the coment "I think one week have passed, so i will place here new article". The deletionprocess is that the page get deleted together with its history, and then the temp page gets renamed. This ensures two things: Wikipedia does not have copyright violations available in its history; and the history of the temp page is preserved. This hasn't happened yet because there is a backlog of copyright problems. I don't plan to revert your change, but you should be aware that the administrator who gets to this may (deliberately or accidentally) discard any subsequent changes.

By the way, I notice that you're providing "external style" links to Wikipedia categories on your user page. You may not be aware that you can insert an extra colon, as Category:Maps ([[:Category:Maps]]) for a more elegant effect.

Bovlb 14:44, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC)

Đorđe & Đurađ :)

It would be useful if you could patch up a couple of articles about the two Brankovićs which are both transliterated as "George", that way we could disambiguate links easily. --Joy [shallot] 10:03, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I know, but that requires knowing these dates in each and every article that mentions them. If they had articles, we could just link to the right one, and be able to figure things out without having to search on talk pages :)

Good idea about the other template. It seems a bit silly to have to choose -1 or -2 or -3 when I've read so few Bosnian texts and don't know how to determine my acquaintance with their idiom, but I guess the middle level will be satisfactory. --Joy [shallot] 10:26, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hi,

I saw you uplodaded this picture: Image:Dkmt01.jpg. This is probably unauthorized, so unless you ask for permission from the original website, this picture will have to be deleted from Wikipedia. Please keep in mind that most pictures cannot be freely copied into Wikipedia, and always give your sources. Please see this page: Wikipedia:Image use policy.

Adam78 13:25, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Deleted part in Greater Hungary

Hi, you deleted this part without any specific explanation:

However, hate crimes against members of the Hungarian diaspora as late as 2004 provided the EU with reason for concern about the protection of Hungarian minority in Serbia's Vojvodina.

You wrote "European investigators have visited Vojvodina recently and conclude" but I can't find their conclusion anywhere. It seems to be unquestioned that people were beaten up in Vojvodina because they were Hungarians. Adam78 30 June 2005 19:36 (UTC)

Actually he not they was beaten up not because he was Hungarian but because he was sleeping with someone elses wife. :) Lets keep things in perspective here, yea? User:202.12.74.5

ARD and Jwalker

Please consider weighing in at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/ARD and Jwalker. You're the original author of Image:Serb lands03.jpg and they've abused your image, too. :) --Joy [shallot] 2 July 2005 13:23 (UTC)

More Image Tagging

Sorry to bother you, but you have another untagged image to deal with. Image:Pannonian plain01.jpg is currently tagged {{no source}}. Please come and give it a more descriptive tag. If it is not a freely distributable image, it needs to be replaced. If you want help, post to my talk page. Superm401 | Talk July 3, 2005 16:38 (UTC)

Additionally, Image:Pannonianplain02.jpg is listed for deletion because it is unused. Superm401 | Talk July 3, 2005 16:56 (UTC)

Serbian portal

As the amount of material somehow connected with Serbs and Serbia on Wikipedia grows, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to form a SCG/Serb portal, so that all the articles about famous Serbs, Serb history, the Serb republic etc are more closely interlinked. This would also provide the casual reader with a easy to use encyclopaedia of everything they could wish to know about RS, SCG, the Serb diaspora etc. Јес' да је Србија мала и да је мало Срба али ипак има Палестински портал, Doctor Who портал, зато нема разлога да и ми ово не покренемо. At this stage I'm just gauging the amount of interest out there for this. If you support this idea, and want to help out, then just drop by my talk page -- estavisti 20:03, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Serbia proper / Central Serbia

The article Serbia proper is supposed to be about the use of that term in English; "central Serbia" isn't necessarily equivalent, as some of the other contributors have pointed out. -- ChrisO 22:08, 25 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Voj bacs.gif

Image deletion warning Image:Voj bacs.gif has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. If you feel that this image should not be deleted, please go there to voice your opinion.

Image:Voj szerem.gif

Image deletion warning Image:Voj szerem.gif has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. If you feel that this image should not be deleted, please go there to voice your opinion.

Image:Voj torontal.gif

Image deletion warning Image:Voj torontal.gif has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. If you feel that this image should not be deleted, please go there to voice your opinion.

Baranya

Hi! You split up the Baranya article into region, present county and historic county, which may be a good thing. However, for all other Kingdom of Hungary counties that still exist in present Hungary, the present and historic county are treated in the same article. We should have some discussion about that, whether to split up all these articles, or to merge the two Baranya counties. Anyway, there's quite much overlap between Baranya (region) and Baranya (historic county), it's exactly the same area AFAIK and the history of the area is in both articles. Please react on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Historical Hungarian counties. Markussep 10:18, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This template must be substituted. Replace {{Template for discussion ...}} with {{subst:Template for discussion ...}}.

Image:Diocletian 284 305.jpg has been listed for deletion

An image you have uploaded, Image:Diocletian 284 305.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.

Hey

You're PANONIAN from the Balkans forums (ezboard), are you not? --Hurricane Angel 04:09, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I was Anthologic, also moderating the Vojvodina forums. I had an idea it was you because of the same capitals in the name and the editing of Voivodinian topics. --Hurricane Angel 20:43, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Malo PAZNJE!

Pozdrav Panonian. Uz duzno postovanje za tvoj prethodni savestan i velik rad na pospesivanju Wikipedije, ovde moram da uputim jednu jasnu zamerku. Naime, u engleskom clanku Sremska Mitrovica dolazi do konstantne zabune! Sebi sam, kao nekom ko je stanovnik grada Sremske Mitrovice, dao za pravo da uklonim tzv. hrvatski naziv za grad. Razlozi za to su visestruki i po meni, opravdani. Naime na nekadasnjem zvanicnom jeziku, српскохрватском, (ili hrvatskosrpskom) zvanican i ujedno uobicajan naziv (ime) grada je Sremska Mitrovica. Dakle hrvatska manjina u Sremskoj Mitrovici danas ne govori delom tog jezika koji se zove hrvatski jezik, vec itekako srpskohrvatskim. Ni u njihovom govoru nije doslo do vestacke i cesto, nazalost, veoma ispolitizirane ijekavizacije i hrvatizacije imena svog grada. Bez ikakvih nacionalistickih tendencija pisem ovo kao neko ko svakako poznaje realnu jezicku situaciju u gradu Sremskoj Mitrovici, vise nego bilo ko se prihvata posla imenovanj jednog mesta (a da pritom ne yivi u njemu. ili bar dobro poznaje odgovarajucu situaciju. Zato je nedopustivo da se odgovarajuca promena naziva vandalizmom. To sebi jedan odgovorni administrator ne moze da dopusti, iako je na wikipediji sve cesca pojava da drugi, anonimniji, urednici placaju ceh administratorskoj samovolji i subjektivizmu da ispravljaju (i vracaju nazad) u (iskljucivo po njihovom nahodjenju pravo) a u sustini, nazad u pogresno. To sto na hr.wikipediji postoji clanak o tzv. Srijemskoj Mitrovici samo govori da se taj maticni hrvatski jezik odrodjuje od samog sebe, pa cak i od jezika pripadnika iste nacionalne manjine u jednom gradu u drugoj drzavi (a kako ta manjina zove svoj grad vec sam naglasio). No to nije nas problem. Nas je problem ako neko stotinama kilometara daleko (kon. ovde od SM i Srema) (mislim na nekog sa govornog podrucja tog novog hrvatskog jezika) daje sebi pravo da se ozbiljno uvlaci u ovdasnje stvari u koje apsolutno nije upucen. Isto kao kad bi mi savesni wikipedijanci sa ovih prostora menjali npr. Osijek u (српски језик: Осек). Nedopustivo i nepotrebno, a posve i nacionalisticki i necasno. I zato su imena hrvatskih gradova na sr.wikipediji u originalu. Bez izuzetka. Prema tome apelujem na malo racionalnog razmisljanja i korektnog i pravicnog koriscenja administratorske f-je. Svaka cast na onolikim clancima (npr. ja to nikada ne bih postigao), ali za njihovo unapredjenje nije dovoljno da ih napises i (ljubomorno) cuvas od svakog ozbiljnijeg editovanja.. To tvrdim bar za nesto sto i ja poznajem, a sigurno ne manje ( a mozda ipak i malo vise:) ) od tebe. I na kraju uz srdacne zelje za daljim pospesivanjem kako nase sr.википедије tako i one engleske koja se ipak i najvise cita i najvise komentarise (pa prema tome trazi i najvisi stepen verodostojnosti) , samo napred!!

Pozdrav od Mitrovcanina 2

PS. Slovacko ime grada mozda i postoji u nekim spisima, ali se iz demografskih, kulturnih, istorijskih, ili nekakvih drugih razloga u Sr. Mitrovici apsolutno ne koristi. (jer u Sr. Mitrovici skoro da ni nema slovacke narodnosti). Tvoja je paznja verovatno bila skrenuta sa Rusina na Slovake, jer su Rusini ti koji poseduju svoj nacionalni identitet u Sr. Mitrovici i naravno imaju i ime za svoj grad na svom jeziku. (to nije slovacki(!), vec rusinski jezik , slican ukrajinskom, pa se i ime grada pise (cini mi se, bas ukrajinskom cirilicom) i drugacije od ovde navedenog, tzv. slovackog naziva. Slobodno pokusaj da ga pronadjes i uvrstis u clanak. Jos jednom, pozdrav.

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