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Talk:Major professional sports leagues in the United States and Canada

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by KelvSYC (talk | contribs) at 02:32, 20 September 2005. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

NHL is most definitely a major professional sports league. The attendances, primetime spots on television, and fan base are all huge evidence of this. It is unjustifiable to say that it isn't just because of a strike, and because of revenues. Something that is overlooked is that hockey is usually a cheaper sport (that is, lesser-costing tickets) compared to other sporting events. --Mrmiscellanious 01:59, 30 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

CFL

The CFL section should be greatly trimmed; much of it doesn't belong. Specifically:

The CFL is considered a major sport in Canada, being second only to the NHL.

  • Quite likely, although I think the CFL is not very far ahead of the NFL or MLB in Canada, especially in Toronto. Can you find a source for the claim?

Proponents of the CFL being a major league point out that...

  • Don't you mean "being considered a major league in Canada?" No one would ever consider the CFL to be "major" in the U.S.

the NFL has no teams in Canada (although in the NFL's defense this is largely due to government intervention in order to retain the distinctly Canadian game as part of Canadian culture).

  • While it's true that the Canadian government did keep the WFL out in the 70s, the lack of an NFL team in Toronto now is undoubtedly because there are better markets in the U.S., not because of government intervention. I doubt the government would try to keep the NFL out nowadays, but putting a team in Toronto wouldn't make financial sense for the league.

A good compromise position, held by many notable Canadian and American football players and fans, is to use the term gridiron football to include both the Canadian and American games, and define gridiron football as one of the four major sports, with the NFL and CFL its leading major leagues.

  • I have never heard of this.

I would rewrite the whole section as follows: "Canadian Football League - Canadian football, with its own distinctive rules and history, rivals MLB, the NFL and NASCAR in popularity in Canada and may be the second-most-popular sport there behind ice hockey. However, its status as a "major league," even in Canada, is questionable, as most of its players are those not good enough to play in the NFL, and salaries are comparable to the Arena Football League."

I won't go ahead and change it now unless no one responds to this comment. Mwalcoff 18:20, 30 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think the whole page should be split into 2 different pages: "US major professional sports leagues" and "Canadian major professional sports leagues". This might avoid any edit wars or whatnot. Obviously, the 2 countries have 2 entirely different definitions as to what constitutes a "major" league. (I am American, BTW.)--CrazyTalk 19:28, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

The first blurb is taken from Canadian football. The gridiron compromise is actually fairly common where I am from. On a related note, years ago the NCAA have tried to put a BCS game in Toronto, but was blocked (I'm not sure if it was the CIS or the government). Also recall that in the CFL's failed US expansion, virtually every US team (except Baltimore) were stocked by former NFLers and the like - and were really bad teams (Baltimore had guys that knew Canadian football well - perhaps that's why there are quite a group of Als fans in Baltimore even today). NFL stars playing in the CFL have also found out that their American skills don't translate into Canadian success (Lawrence Phillips is a good example). I can't see any valid claim as to the CFL players as being "not good enough to play" in the NFL (which IMO is an inherently POV statement). kelvSYC 06:22:33, 2005-09-05 (UTC)

  1. If we look at this 2002-03 poll of Canadian adults, we can see that the CFL ranks eighth among favourite sports to watch in Canada. If we look just at men (who are more likely to be sports fans), the CFL still is tied for fifth, behind pro and amateur hockey, the NFL and even soccer. (I'm surprised too.)
  2. I live in Kitchener-Waterloo, but the only people I know who say "gridiron football" are Brits.
  3. Actually, it's the city of Toronto that wants to host a bowl game, and it's the NCAA that has rejected the idea [1].
  4. I'd bet that 99% of CFL players would rather be playing in the NFL and making NFL money. Many CFL stars are NFL castoffs or rejects. Ricky Ray was cut by the Jets. Henry Burris threw 51 passes in his NFL career. Casey Printers was undrafted and unsigned out of college. This is not to knock on the CFL or say that its players lack talent. But that the level of talent in the NFL is higher than that of the CFL is so self-evident, it should not be considered controversial.
  5. Lawrence Phillips was hardly an NFL star. He played 35 games and ran for a measly 3.4-yard average per carry. In the CFL, in contrast, his stats weren't bad, but he was kicked off the team for behaviorial reasons. Mwalcoff 20:37, 5 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I can't argue with the pay difference - many where I'm from consider Canadian footballers to be grossly underpaid (the salary cap that de facto does not exist...). Then can we say that the rise of the NFL in the media prompted the fall of the CFL in the talent department? After all, there was a time when top football managers both sides of the border wanted a crack at the best stars on both sides of the border. kelvSYC 02:32, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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