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Talk:Same-sex marriage

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Reddi (talk | contribs) at 23:43, 18 February 2004. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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In this article, the inclusive term "same-sex marriage" is used throughout. Where necessary for clarity, the terms "gay", "lesbian", "bisexual," and "transsexual" are used.

There are a number of reasons for this:

  • "Same-sex marriage" is generally thought to be the most inclusive, most neutral term. It is the term preferred by those who favour the expansion of the definition of marriage to include couples of the same gender, and by those who are neither for nor against, while other terms (primarily homosexual marriage and queer marriage ) are generally favoured by those, both heterosexual and otherwise, who are opposed to such marriages on religious, moral or political grounds. It is also the title of this article.
  • Not all couples of the same gender are gay. The terms "gay marriage" and "homosexual marriage" do not recognise this fact. Also, while for many people the word gay also encompasses lesbian women, for others it does not. The terms "same-gender marriage" and "queer marriage" are rather rare.
  • The neutrality of the words homosexual and queer is disputed, both on Wikipedia and in the community at large. For more information please see homosexual and queer.
  • In the historical context, the words gay, lesbian, queer, and homosexual may not be strictly accurate. Gay, lesbian and queer are modern constructs with both political associations and connotations of identity. In many ancient societies behaviour was considered homosexual while people were not. In most cases there was no such thing as “homosexual identity” (there are some possible exceptions; please see berdache, hijra).

Talk:Same-sex marriage/archive

Please note: "Reversion," "Reversion of homosexual marriage to same-sex marriage" and "Neutrality? NPOV?" moved to archive page.

Re-write

OK, I've been planning a re-write of this page for a while, and while I haven't yet managed that, I have added some definitions. I'm sure this'll cause anyuerisms in some people ;) but maybe it'll stimulate some constructive discussions and maybe even consensus too. Exploding Boy 02:13, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)

That sounds good, what's the plan in ur mind? :O --Yacht (Talk)Q 01:33, Feb 11, 2004 (UTC)

Add more info, rearrange, expand. Feel free to go ahead and make changes obviously. Exploding Boy 02:59, Feb 11, 2004 (UTC)

Definition

Removed from the article at another user's recommendation, but should be readiliy available.

This information has been moved to the head of the talk page, where it should probably stay so that the link from the article leads somewhere relavent. Exploding Boy 04:20, Feb 15, 2004 (UTC)

SSM in different countries

Would it be a good idea to only list all the SSM in X links on this page and not also on all the SSM in X pages? A link back to this article is likely to be included in all of them, but a comment like "For SSM in other countries, see the links at SSM." could be added as well. -- Kimiko 10:20, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)

No objections? Okay then. The phrase I used is "For information on the status of same-sex marriage in other countries, see the links at same-sex marriage." -- Kimiko 20:27, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Sorry to not notice until now, but I object. {grins} Ok, no, I don't really. I do have another idea that might work better. SSM in X should be considered a series of articles. A simple Seriobox named 'SSM' could be created and added to MediaWiki and then {{msg:SSM}} added as appropriate. Then when new articles get created, they are simply added to the MW:SSM page and all the SSM articles get updated automagically. - UtherSRG 20:33, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Whoa, easy with all the technomumble there. I don't even know what a mediawiki is yet. If I understand what you are saying, it seems a Good Thing (TM). Could you make that msg thing? -- Kimiko 20:47, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Done! :) Go check out all the pages, and MediaWiki:SSM. - UtherSRG 20:49, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Aye, found it. Looks okay, but needed a little rewording IMHO. Hope you don't mind. Thanks for setting it up in any case. -- Kimiko 20:57, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC)

The article (along with the head of this talk page) is inaccurate (... if not plainly POV). Just some definitions ...

"same" = identitical
"sex" = either of the two categories (male or female)
"homo" = one and the same
"sexual" = involving sex

So ... same-sex is equilvilant to homosexual. "Same-sex" is just a recent euphemism (mainly held to and favored by homosexual proponents and associated liberal supporters). AND ... all couples of the same gender are honmosexual (from a external objective observation [see definitions again]). The word homosexual is mainly disputed by liberal (and homosexual activists). [Note, these points doesn't mention if "homosexual marriage" even fits as a "socially sanctioned" union defintion of marriage.] JDR 23:17, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Given that you're not sure if "homo" is a derogatory term or not (see this history), you'll have to excuse it if we don't just take your word on appropriate terminology. - Outerlimits 23:21, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Homosexual proponents and associated supporters see it as derogatory. JDR

Homosexual proponents such as Merriam, and Webster. - Outerlimits 23:31, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Mabey ... as mostly all other defintions (specifically google) don't consider this ... JDR

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