User talk:Vulturell
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Tyrone Power
Hi I am a cousin of his, his mother's ancestry was published in the World Family Tree, I haven't got access to this ATM but I will get the details for you, but from memory, his mother was daughter of Charles W Rheaume (his father was French Canadian) and Adeline Schuster, daughter of Paul Schuster born in France and Miss Schwebel. Arnie587 23:49, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
- Hi I will get a few more details for you tomorrow but for now here are T. Power's great grandparents Paul + Amanda (nee Schwebel)Schuster on the 1880 census [1] their daughter Adilade married Charles W Reaume [2] Regards Arnie587 22:10, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
- Hi, sorry I think I may have made a mistake re: Tyrone Power, I guess I had assumed his Schuster ancestors were jewish as most famous Schusters are, but from looking into it it looks like a lot are Catholic, from Germany and the Alsace region of France. Also I have determined that Paul Schuster's wife was not Amanda Eliza Schwebel(which can be a jewish) but Amanda Eleanor Brazee which is a NY name possiby Dutch or French in origin. It is possible however that Tyrone Power's father's family were part jewish (which is partly what led me to think the Schusters might be) as the brother and sister of his paternal grandmother both married into the Solomon and Nathan families, who were in the top of the jewish community in London. Arnie587 13:23, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
Oh well. It's still interesting information, however. Vulturell 18:03, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
Um, can you provide a source for the changes you made in the first paragraph? I'm reverting until you do. Alphax τεχ 07:50, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Yup, I can prove just about anything, try me.
It's a searchable book bio. You can also just search for " "Anthony Hopkins" Yeats " on Google or something. Usually turns up a bunch of results. Vulturell 07:53, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
- Ok, thanks, I've added the "to" that was missing (which made me find the change in the first place). I was dubious of the change because the way it's worded, it sounds like he was born out of wedlock or something. Alphax τεχ 08:02, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Ethnic labels
Could you please add some explanation of ethnicity to the articles you are categorizing? For example, calling Larry Hagman, a second-generation Texan, an "English-American" is a designation which requires description. Were his grandparents on one or both sides English, or what? "Hageman", his father's name, doesn't sound English. I appreciate your desire to categorize, but categories should only reflect what is in the article. Wikipedia is not a genealogy, but you can also annotate your edits in summaries or on the talk page. Thanks for your contributions. Cheers, -Willmcw 08:42, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, "English American" is, as per the topic of your post, an ethnic designation. His ancestors could have lived in the States for 400 years, but that would still be their ethnic background. I don't know about Hagman's father's ancestry, but his mother's is English, I thought that ground enough to add him. Vulturell 04:59, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
- This is the type of information that needs to be in the article to support categorization into ethnic groups. Right now the only evidence is that he's a "Texas-American." And I don't mean just the Hagman article. The ethnic labels you're adding to articles have other editors scratching their heads. It would be helpful to the project if you could please give reasons for categorizing people, especially when there's nothing in the article about ethnicity already. I also know that there are questions about categorizing people based on a distant ancestor. First or second generation immigrants are undoubtedly "English-Americans", but what about fifth or seventh generation families? Do the immingrants' descendents remain "English-Americans" forever, simply adding ethnicities as groups intermarry. It's not clear what criteria you're using. Thanks, -Willmcw 07:24, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Well by "English American" I would refer to a person who has at least one "fully" ethnically English grandparent. That means I take into account intermarriage, etc. I would consider fifth or sixth generation ancestors to still qualify the person, if the person is 1/4 or more of that ethnicity (in fact in the past I have taken people out of certain categories they were in since they had less than 1/4 of whichever heritage). The 1/4 rule is the standard I usually use, since it mercifully limits the person to inclusion in a maximum of 4 groups (Robert Downey, Jr. is a good example of a person who evenly has 4 grandparents of different ethnicities.
Anyway, I usually include details of a person's background in their profile, but yes, there are a few that I omit and just assume people will realize what I'm talking about. However, based on your suggestion I will try to remedy that.
Oh, and the editor who was asking about this on your talk page seems to think "English Americans" should exist as a category for English-born people only. I think that's a bit silly, considering Swedish-Americans or Polish-American certainly refer to U.S. born people with whichever ancestry. Vulturell 07:31, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Marlon Brando
Hi again, I had to revert the info about Brando being French as I am sure (in this case !) about his ancestry please see the discussion page Talk:Marlon_Brando#ancestry_.2F_ethnicity his Brando ancestors lived in NY state since early 1600s, descended from Johann Wilhelm Brandau. I am currently trying to trace his father's mother who is a mystery as she apparently ran away some time after 1900 so at the moment her ancestry is undetermined (to me his father looks east european maybe jewish) Arnie587 19:07, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
This book on Brando at Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0670882364/qid=1128315238/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/103-1474594-6266247?v=glance&s=books) had the details which I added. I assumed it to be correct - it even mentioned his father changing the surname just before Brando's birth. I won't change it back, but, is it possible that the ancestors you traced are from a different Brandau? Vulturell 04:59, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
- Hi I think the Brandeaux thing possibly came from Brando himself perhaps as he felt it was fashionable to be French, also I think he felt close to France as it is his Tahitian wife's language which he learnt, and his daughter went to school there, but like many people in reality they don't know much past their grandparents. I know for certain about his tree as I have his grandfather Eugene Brando on the census stating he was born NY which ties in with the tree I have, and this Eugene had an uncle Marlon in NY so that pretty much makes it certain. Arnie587 17:21, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Charles R. Redford Sr.
Do you have a source for the birth place of Charles R. Redford, Sr.? All I can find is
- "November 1914 in Rhode Island"
WikiDon 09:43, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Well first and foremost, I remember reading in a book bio that one of his parents was several-generations American, and the other was an immigrant from either Scotland or Ireland (I didn't remember which so I added "British Isles"). This geneology of his (http://www.genealogy.com/famousfolks/robertr/d0/i0000002.htm#s2) goes down his mother's ancestry (which is mostly English-American) for several generations, but doesn't list the date or place of when his father was born - which is a good sign for that website that he wasn't born in the U.S. and they can't track his geneology.
Also, Robert Redford is mentioned in this article about "Irish Americans" - "The remarkable contributions of these immigrants and their children, from Civil War generals to Robert Redford;" (http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:znN--DIiMWcJ:www.hlla.com/catalog/irisham.html+%22Robert+redford%22+immigrant&hl=en), seeming to indicate that at least one of Redford's parents is an immigrant. I am going to see if I can find that book or another one again and make sure. Vulturell 21:40, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Robert De Niro
Hi I have a tree for him too :) His paternal grandfather Henry De Niro was Italian, his paternal grandmother was Helen O'Reilly who was Irish, his maternal grandfather was Donald Admiral whse father was Dutch, mother was Virginian mixed French/British, his maternal grndmother was Alison Groman (orig Grohndeidrich) who has all Germn ancestry so basically he is 1/4 Italian 1/4 Irish 1/4 German 1/8 Dutch 1/8 French-British mix Arnie587 17:21, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Fair enough. I am surprised that all the web bios always delight in saying he is "1/4 Italian and 3/4 Irish" (including the IMDB, which is now running on a virtual "wrong" streak in so many actor profiles). No other site ever mentions this other ancestry of his, so I guess it's good thing that we can start with Wikipedia. Vulturell 21:40, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
adding people to Catholic category
Hi I notice you are adding people to this category, I think people should only be in this category if there is evidence they are actually practicing catholics, or they were when they died. I don't know of any evidence that Jack Nicholson is practicing Catholic or Ethel Barrymore was when she died please tell me the source for this. Thanks Arnie587 15:44, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Robert Heinlein
Hi. I noticed you had deleted Robert Heinlein from the category of "Hugo Winning Authors" and "People from Missouri", and added him to the category "Baptists". I don't know whether Heinlein was a Baptist; I do know he was from Missouri and won multiple Hugo Awards. I have therefore reverted your edits. Thanks. Brandon39 17:06, 4 October 2005 (UTC)