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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by DLR (usurped) (talk | contribs) at 04:13, 3 March 2004 (Mormon's do not believe in Jesus "like other Christians do"). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Removed this sentence from intro to Jewish views, because: a) Do not understand what it means and so not sure it is correct b) If it is correct and is given a bit more explanation then it probably should be in a daughter article

"For messianic Jews beside being messiah, Jesus is also the shekinah of God shining in the temple body of believers." :ChrisG 18:19, 3 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I understand the sentence, but it is misplaced as an intro to Jewish views; and, I'm not sure that it can easily fit anywhere in this article. The sentence expresses a New Testament teaching regarding the church; and, it would be more appropriate to an article on the church. Mkmcconn 20:05, 3 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Does the frase 'Jewish view of Jesus as Messiah' mean that 'according to standart Jewish view Jesus is Messiah and here you'll read more about the fact...'? If yes this is not very good NPOV --Ilya 11:17, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)


I find a few parts of this article a little inconsistent. For example, in the life and teachings it refers to 'some sort of disturbance in the temple'. Now as far as I know the only source for this incident is the Christian Gospels, which go a lot further and make it explicit what kind of disturbance it was. If the Gospels are reliable as a source for the fact that there was an incident, surely they are reliable enough for the nature of the incident?

Surely also any article about Jesus must make some mention of the Christian claims of a resurrection. It's not POV to mention that Christians claim this. DJ Clayworth 22:27, 2 Jan 2004 (UTC)

DJ,
I initially wrote a fairly short section on Jesus' life trying to establish some common ground that the majority of people could agree with. I was pleasantly surprised to find people actually added some information, rather than demand one short paragraph saying born, religious teacher, arrested, crucified.
I think I wrote the sentence about the disturbance at the temple. I only wrote that because I seemed to remember that the different gospel accounts disagree on details. If there is more agreement as to the nature of the disturbance in the gospel accounts I don't think people would disagree with that information being added because no miraculous claims are being made.
I agree that some mention should be made about the Christian claims of resurrection; but I didn't add that to the original account, because since it is the most controversial point I didn't want any controversy to prevent the creation of a short biography. :ChrisG 09:54, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I'm going to boldly add a minimal resurrection section with appropriate NPOV attributions. DJ Clayworth 15:20, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The claim that all of our knowledge of Jesus comes from the Gospels is plainly false (forgot the letters of Paul?) so I removed errors and added a lot of material on what in fact we have. Gene Ward Smith 01:27, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The following was removed from the introduction after the previous edit by Gene Ward Smith. Some of his edit has been retained because the intro did require some rebalancing; but I have cut out this considerable chunk because it was too detailed a discussion for the introduction. It is probably most applicable to Sources about Jesus_Christ and/or Historicity of Jesus sections of this article and/or the relating main articles. I have also somewhat rebalanced his edit. ChrisG 21:09, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Nearly all of our historical knowledge about Jesus is dervied from the New Testament, especially the Gospels and the letters of Paul, but there is for example a discussion of his brother James in the Antiquities of Flavius Josephus which most scholars accept as authentic. The majority of historians believe the Gospel accounts to have originated from primary and secondary sources written within living memory of Jesus. Evidence for a historical Jesus considered more doubtful by modern historians is provided by other material, often fragmentary, such as the sayings Gospel of Thomas, the Egerton Gospel, the Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel, Morton's Smith's controversial Secret Mark, and the still more controversial and dubious Testimonium Flavianum. Because of its firmly established status as a letter written by Paul himself, in which he speaks of meeting Peter and James, the letter of Paul to the Galatians is considered some of the best historical information we have, and by itself would settle the question of whether there was such a person for most historians.

The page has a link in a menu/table listed as "Jewish view of Jesus". This link goes to the "Jewish Messiah" page. The Jewish view of Jesus is not that he was the Jewish Messiah. How can we improve upon this factual inaccuracy? OneVoice 11:02, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Write the section currently missing from Jewish messiah? — No-One Jones (talk) 11:08, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)

That would not fit the need. As I understand the Jewish view of Jesus, it is in their view undeniable that Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah. Indeed replacing the link from the "Jewish view of Jesus" on the Jesus pages with a link to False messiah would fit better. This may be inflammatory. How do we address it without a crusade? Can Christians accept the idea that Jews do not view Jesus as the Messiah enough to allow this link to be changed or deleted? Do I overestimate the sensitivity of this issue? Indeed, if the "Jewish view of Jesus" is Jewish Messiah one is left to wonder why there are any Jews that are not Jews for Jesus! (a group that is not particularly large) OneVoice 23:37, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I've created a Jewish view of Jesus page from lost material in the Jewish Messiah page, which fixes these issues I think. ChrisG 21:32, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)

ChrisG, thank you very much for addressing this need. What you are added is a vast improvement on the previous content. OneVoice 12:53, 1 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Mormon's do not believe in Jesus "like other Christians do"

This is not intended to be inflamitory, but to reflect the wording I removed from the article. It is my understanding (and please correct me if I am wrong) that the Mormon belief in the person of Jesus is very different from the rest of Christianity. Therefore, in the interests of NPOV, I have removed the phrase "...like other Christians do" from the article.

It's late, I'm tired, and this is not intended to be inflamitory. If something I wrote here sets you off please accept my appologies in advance. Respectfully - DavidR (was David) 04:13, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

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