Talk:Pueblo
There is another article on pueblo peoples, but this one implied that pueblo refers to adobe architecture, especially that of apartment blocks. Appreciation of pueblo as refering primarily to a building is probably a regional construct. I'm not implying their shouldn't be an article about pueblo architecture, but I edited this to accurately reflect where the term comes from, what it means, and how it is used.
"dodgey"? Is that a British term, William? Anyway, there is little other way to accurately describe Pueblos, unless we want to replace the definition under law with the one informed by the folklore of people who had little knowledge of the indigenous communities of the American SouthWest. There are pueblos and there are reservations, side by side in some areas. One was established by the King of Spain and the other by the United States Congress. The definition in folklore - mud house - started with those postcards wealthy tourists carried home from their vacations. Having this one on the page is both beautiful and offensive. Most of the pueblos have prohibitions against photography in their community. Rainchild 07:56, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- (William M. Connolley 09:44, 2004 Mar 12 (UTC)) It is if you omit the "e". I've re-removed the text. If you mean a particular King of Spain, say which, and provide some evidence.
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Mr. Connolley, a telephone call to the Bureau of Indian Affairs will provide you the answer you are seeking. The King of Spain refers not to one king but to the Crown of Spain, and that would be the Crown of Spain from the time of Onate's travels up until the time of the Treaty of Gildalgo (if I have spelled that correctly from recollection). The construct of pueblo is recognized in U.S. law and if you will patiently respect the information that has been presented here until you have sufficient knowledge to rebutt the article, I will attempt to kindly look up for you and for other readers those laws. I can develop on other pages information about Congress' current actions regarding ongoing efforts to adjudicate land transfers from the Spanish Crown to the people of the SouthWest, involving today the common lands of the Spanish land grants.
It appears that the writer who recently edited this article had considerable knowledge both of Pueblo history and of the appropriate presentation of Pueblo history in scholarly and legal contexts. It appears you are basing your criticism on a sense that the term is "dodgy" and apparently from your comments on the Wikipedia:RC Patrol page, on a suspicion that you have knowledge about the credibility of the author. If you have evidence that this article is not accurate, please discuss it here on the talk page, and not by reverting edits that are being explained. The sourcing of this article is no weaker than that of any article in Wikipedia, and your demand for sources while making uninformed edit threatens to leave you appearing less than gracious.
Kareem 11:13, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)~
(William M. Connolley 11:20, 2004 Mar 12 (UTC)) I suspect you of being a sock puppet of Bird/SoCal/Rainwhatever. Time will tell. If you want to use my title, use the correct one, which is Dr. But wikipedia is informal, and titles are rarely used.
If you mean crown of spain, say so. Don't say King of Spain.
I don't trust your additions. I hope that other more informed people will comment.
- "Spanish Crown" works, but it is inanimate. In the cultural sensitivity training sessions for police, teachers and social workers who work on or near pueblos, the boilerplate phrase is more or less as it appears in this article.
- (William M. Connolley 11:54, 2004 Mar 12 (UTC)) "more or less" is vague. If you can find a link to the text you are referring to and put it here, it will support your case.
- It appears at this point the obligation would be yours, as a British climatologist, to present evidence that in the United States a pueblo is any Native American village and not specifically those first established under land grants from the King of Spain. Otherwise, you might demonstrate you have some knowledge of anthropology or American Indian history and law by contributing credible additions to related topics in the field. Kareem 12:40, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Wikipedia encourages people not to witch hunt for sock puppets of banned members. You may ask, but I am not obligated to join in the disparagement of banned members by taking an oath that have never edited under another name. I hope that you dignify the Pueblo people with genuine interest in their story, rather than for the story of a character you saw at Wikipedia. As I noted on your talk page, I will find for you information to explain the root of that term in United States law. Kareem 11:29, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- (William M. Connolley 11:54, 2004 Mar 12 (UTC)) I dispute your interpretation of wiki policy. Like I said, you appear to be a sock puppet of Bird etc. It doesn't make your edits wrong, it just makes them suspect.
- I would hope editors treat material with suspicion not out of mistrust but of affection for the subject. Do you have much familiarity with English usage in the American Southwest, Doctor? If not, you may be suprised to learn that "King of Spain" is the common term used today to refer to the king du jour of that time.
- I think this came from Southwestern Indian Tribes, KC Publications, P.O. Box 428, Flagstaff, Arizona, but the sources were somewhat merged in that document. Anyway, its fair use. This is educational:
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- Reservation tribal chairmen have various staffs and canes they have receieved as well, but the canes from the king of Spain will only be found at one of the 20 federally recognized Pueblos.
- I'll find more that is even more specific, at least in the symbols of Western law, but please, don't take anyone's authority on the matter, and do some research of your own. Kareem 12:04, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
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Dr. Connolley, I trust you will contact the people addressed in this article to obtain the best information:
San Ildefonso Pueblo Visitor
and Information Center
Route 5 Box 314 -A
Santa Fe, NM 87501
Tel: (505) 455-3549
Fax: (505) 455-7351
Laguna Pueblo comprises six major villages, Laguna, Paguate, Encinal, Mesita, Seama, Paraje, scattered over many acres, with the political center at Laguna.
Pueblo of Laguna
P.O. Box 194
Laguna, New Mexico 87026
Phone (505) 552-6654
Fax (505) 552-6941
There are 18 others, but for their privacy I prefer not to republish their contact information any more than neccessery. Each of their Pueblo governments may be located by Google searches.
If i find more soon, I will post it Kareem 12:30, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Kareem, Dr. C. is an expert is climate -- not U.S. history.
William, please assume good faith on Kareem's part. A little research should settle this issue.
I'd like to refactor this page, removing all the "sock it to me" malarkey: it has nothing to do with improving the pueblo article. --Uncle Ed 12:53, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)