Talk:The Clash

Should we include the recently released (and quite cool) Vanilla Tapes somewhere in here? For those who don't know, they were a set of tracks the band recorded themselves a few weeks before they recorded London Calling. It's almost all the songs from that album in early stages, and a pretty cool listen. There were a lot of stories floating around about their existance; I won't bore you with details but you can easily find more with Google. Anyone have suggestions on how/if to include them? FilthMasterFlex

Absolutely. Just include the Legacy Edition of LC in total. It's worthy of mention. Of course, I would write volumes on the band so...

Influenced by ...

There's no call to mention flash-in-the-pan bands like Blink-182, Green Day and Offspring in the opening paragraph is there? That's a bit like mentioning Martin Amis (or <insert whoever>) in the opening paragraph of an article about Dickens or Shakespeare. Relegate this to the bottom of the page please. And as for REM, U2, and the Cure - in what conceivable way are they "influenced" by The Clash???? One might as well put that the Rolling Stones were "influenced" by Scott Joplin. I'm not giving my opinion of these groups, merely questioning what relevance such wildly unClash-like groups as U2, REM and Cure have to a Clash article. Again, relegate the namedropping to the bottom, if it must be mentioned at all.

Live At Bonds (Bootleg, Live 1981) Epic

Does this record exist or is it a michaelism? And if it was a bootleg was it released on Epic who are a major label? I've never heard of this record, but admit I don't know that much about the Clash post London Calling.

I'm sure there are loads of Clash bootlegs available (I've even got one on tape somewhere) but maybe bootlegs should be listed seperately from official releases? quercus robur 19:05 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)

There are always tons of bootlegs of any popular artist. I have a Clash bootleg CD somewhere, but I see little reason to include them on a page such as this. (I'm new here and not entirely familiar with the term "Michaelism", but after reading the 1976 bootleg discussion on the Crass page I think I have a pretty good idea of what it means.) However, I think their other major recordings deserve mention, notably Black Market Clash (or perhaps Super Black Market Clash) and even The Clash on Broadway and From Here to Eternity. -R. fiend

http://www.clashcity.com/imct if it exists, it's on that site. Sign up, it's free, and then feel free to download whatever it may have. I'd check Satch's forums as well, and the Blackmarket Clash site.

It's on AMG so it's a non-bootleg-bootleg... the ones that aren't illegally recorded. It was recorded for the radio at first and in 2000 released on CD... and I made an infobox for it. gren グレン 18:47, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

"The Only Band that Matters"

Wasn't this their record-company authored advertising slogan? Shouldn't there be some distance between the tone of the encyclopedia article and the band's publicity material? --BTfromLA 06:42, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Well, wherever it came from it has caught on, and it is a phrase associated with them. Sort of like Michael Jackson dubbing himself the King of Pop. -R. fiend 04:04, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

not a single picture?

not an album cover? no lead singer pictures? no guitarists jamming? this is wikipedia, right?

Lockeownzj00 02:58, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I added the album covers; how do they look? Are they too close together, in the wrong sections, or anything like that? Everyking 05:10, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

One possibility would be to put the London Calling cover by the intro, because it's so iconic, but then again I also like the way they're arranged in chronological order now. Everyking 05:12, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

That picture ought to be mentioned. I seem to recall it being voted the most famous picture in Rock and Roll in a ?BBC poll a few years ago. Which one of them is it smashing his guitar, and am I right in recalling that he said afterwards he regretted it?--84.9.17.30 23:14, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

We've got a picture of the lineup up at the top now, but I think it'd be nice to have a picture or two of the band actually playing. It's a bit important, I think, because with the shifting styles of the band, they also took on different looks, from "punk" to "rocker", and then finally what I can only call "combat rock". I know I know, it's what they did not what they wore, but I think it still helps people get a better picture of the band than the album covers, which they could just as easily find on the albums' pages. Slythefox

Slythefox, why did you alter the "White Riot" cover image? That green tint is the actual color of the sleeve. Please restore the earlier image. BTfromLA 19:35, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Article is biased against the Sex Pistols!

I'm going to try and edit this article to fix this. And the Sex Pistols and the Clash are equally popular.

Noo.... the Sex Pistols were much more abrasive to the mainstream... God Save the Queen and Anarchy in the UK are their biggest hits and they were/are never played on the Radio like Should I Stay or Should I go... or, Rock the Casbah, or even London Calling. Much more of a fringe group that fewer bands cite as their influence. gren グレン 18:45, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Sex Pistols are just as influential, probably more so, than the Clash to UK artists. I've certainly seen the Sex Pistols namechecked more often in music articles than the Clash. The Sex Pistols are probably held in higher esteem because they appeared first and they flared out after delivering one seminal punk album, while the Clash evolved and acknowledged the history of rock 'n roll at a time when punk was becoming post-punk, delivering bands like Joy Division, the Fall, and Gang of Four who were more experimental and "forward-thinking"

But I seriously think there should be no comparison in the article over which band was bigger/more influential. Things can subsequently get really caught up in tangental discussions. WesleyDodds 07:10, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Why argue?

Let's face it. Both the Sex Pistols and the Clash were both highly influential over many bands who formed after them. I am sure that some were inspired by both groups; the Clash are often cited as not being a punk band and more often than not, they are critisized. The Pistols were the clerics (if you like) for popular musics greatest ever explosion, for that is how I define the late 70's movement, 1977 was the year that the time bomb finally detonated!! The Clash on the other hand, had their own structuring of political life, and although did not seek to promote anarchy, were just as defiant towards the establishment in areas where the establishemnt had been the source of the offence. The general point made by the Sex Pistols (Johny Rotten mainly) is that this band wasn't just anti-establishment, but anti-ANTI-establishment too, they hated both sides of the barrier - who ever heard Malcolm praising any other movement as being good? When did the band members ever pay homage to any other group? Rotten was so subversive he even hated himself first thing in the morning! As time has gone by, everyone has tried to convince themselves (and the dumb public) that they are 'bad boys of pop', I mean these rappers, so-called 21st century punk bands, hip-hop people, Britpop w*nkers etc: all try to give it the big 'I am' but then act the gentleman in the presence of ladies; be seen shaking hands with people such as the Prime Minister, or accept knighthoods from the Queen; play the hard man whilst fancying himself at the same time; using the media purely as a form of glory hunting (drawing attention to oneself) with scandalous stories. We all know that these great bands of the late 70's never had to do that! They were original, and did what they would have done famous or not. Their imporatnce was that they taught us young people of the time how to live and enjoy life on the (outside) to the outside lane! Celtmist 5.10.05

Vocalists

I've added a 'clarify' tag because I'm not really sure what point is being made. I'm not being pedantic here, I think it's really not clear. "A band member other than Strummer sang at least one track on a Clash album" (after grammatical changes). Does the author mean that every band member sang a track on each album, or that each album had at least one non-Strummer lead vocal? (If the latter it's not particularly extraordinary by the way - I think I'm right in saying that all 4 of the Beatles had a lead vocal on every album?)

Well yeah, I think it's generally acknowleged that Strummer and Mick Jones traded off lead vocals on the albums (like Strummer doing Rock the Casbah and a bunch of the other songs and Jones doing Should I Stay..., Lost in the Supermarket, Stay Free), or sometimes did dual lead vocals (Remote Control, Clampdown) akin to the Who. Jones and Strummer were present on vocals more than the other members were.

I love the Clash by the way, just don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of them. My guess is the latter is right. --kingboyk 19:20, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Long live the legacy of the (immortal) Joe Strummer!

2005 Reunion?

Should there be more about the 2005 reunion? About how it's not definate, and no tour dates have been released, etc., etc.? Maybe also a link to The Clash Reunion article? Just a thought.

There is no base behind the reunion rumour. It shouldnt even be mentioned here. As a long time StrummerNews and Satch's member (two highly regarded Clash Forums) i can say that this was an April fools joke started by Pearl Jam fans.

I agree - all news regarding this reunion can be traced back to that Pearl Jam forum, it would seem. It looks very much like a hoax --Loopy 18:23, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I as well am a StrummerNewser and this is a hoax. There is no notability behind it. User:GBVrallyCI 22:47, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Photos?

Surely there are some public domain/fair use pictures of the band we can use? --Loopy 03:07, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Album covers are often used, but those are dodgy under Wikipedia:Fair use. Those Photoshopped album covers that were here for a while were egregious copyright violations. Best would be some fan photos from someone willing to release their work under the GFDL or CC-SA licenses. Second best would be to contact former labels / promotional companies to ask for actual publicitity photos that are copyrighted by the band or by their agents, and use those as Fair use and with permission. Jkelly 03:22, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

London Calling Cover?

"...while the photo is of Simenon smashing his bass at the end of filming for the "London Calling" video..." First of, Simonon's name is misspelt. Secondly, that's NOT when it was shot. It was shot at the end of the 1979 show at the Palladium in NY.

Rockabilly?

This term makes no sense to me when describing The Clash. Although they that twangy sound in some of their songs, I would by no means consider them a rockabilly band. Also, none of their influences can be connected to rockabilly bands. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but i think describing The Clash as a rockabilly band is plain wrong.

Calling or Combat?

Article says London Calling was height of commercial success, then goes on to say Combat Rock was the best selling record? It's one or the other.