User talk:81.67.38.237

Hey there

Ok, I guess we both got a little carried away, though I probably veered the discussion off track with some comments about prestige and such. Sorry about that. I was just confused because I can't imagine that all these international news outlets would repeatedly label Sciences Po a grandes ecoles unless it were one. I think the problem might be because the school is an elite school and most of the elite schools in France are members of the grandes ecoles, so people might just assume it is also a member of the grandes ecoles... many people must be referring to grandes ecoles in the smaller sense, rather than in the larger official sense. I appreciate you pointing it out, though - even if our discussion got heated at times.

And, I agree -- my God is the french educational system confusing... apparently Sciences Po is a public institution, and thus not a grandes ecoles, but one which students must pass an exam to get into, and no student from outside the French private high school system has ever passed the exam (so no state school kids at Sciences Po)... which is why they've now implemented a policy of affirmative action. A public school with no students from public high schools. Confusing, confusing, confusing!

P.S. No hard feelings!

Sciences-Po discussion page

Three comments: 1. Please register and become a wikipedia user, so that users can easily converse with you now and in the future. Your IP address is recorded if you are not a registered user, and that makes it difficult for users like myself to easily speak with you.

2. I applaud your efforts to make the Sciences-Po page accurate. I have to admit, I was a bit confused when I saw that you removed the 'grande ecole' title from the page because I was always under the impression that Sciences-Po is a grande ecole, but I understand your rationale after looking at the discussion page. That said, I think such a prolonged conversation about the prestige of either school and arguments about prestige relating to reality would best be had between you and the other unregistered wikipedia user on your individual pages, rather than on the Sciences-Po discussion page itself.

3. You should probably revise and amend the 'grande ecole' page on Wikipedia as well. I just looked at it and it still lists Sciences-Po as a grande ecole.

Thank you again for your contributions.

All the best, Brayden

P.S. To be fair, I'm a poli sci student from the USA and I've never heard of ENA, but I have heard of Sciences-Po and I've always thought of it as being a great school. I think the latter does have a better name than ENA outside France, but I would certainly never contest the idea that Polytechnic and HEC are not also fantastic schools! I have a few American friends at HEC, and they say the school is great. Anyway, thanks for your contributions!

Exhausted :-)

Thank you for your comments; but it is not a matter of prestige, it is about semantics, about a single name :-). I personnaly think that the "Grande Ecole" pages are to be looked after very closely: the must not be apologetic!

I registered as "Floressas" .. I am French, sorry for my poor english.

I completely agree

One of the main problems with wikipedia is that people make things up and pass it off as fact. Personally, I don't really care whether Sciences Po is a grande ecole or not. My view of the school as being highly prestigious is still in tact, but it is very important that accuracy is given pride of place, so I'm glad you changed it.

I don't know if you agree, but I think the title of grande ecole is rather useless given that SO many schools in both France and some other schools outside France are included under that title... (I checked the source you posted on the discussion page -- thanks again for that!! -- and discovered just how many grande ecoles there are). I always thought the grande ecoles were the most exclusive schools in France, but that list is too long to truly represent an 'elite'... maybe something should be set up by Sciences-Po, Polytechnic, HEC Paris, and the other elite schools in France (which I'm not really aware of) -- b/c that'd be far more helpful than such a huge list like the one with grande ecole.

Thanks!!!!

Of course, very good remark: there are some "Grandes Ecoles" which are not elite schools, and elite schools which are not Grandes Ecoles; that's the point :-)

The problem with that kind of lists, it is that the rankings are non-statics; it is difficult to say that one school is definitely an elite school or not... And it is a matter of communication and marketing too... Even for a native french, it is very difficult!!

It is Not a grandes ecoles

Do you really think that the Sciences-Po web site is the relevant source to discuss this topic with impartiality? Indeed, it is Sciences-po's interest to mention this, whereas this information on their website is completely false! The only good reference is the official institution which gives the title of Grande Ecole, with precise and rigorous criteria, which can be found on the mentioned website. Go to see the list, it is really easy.

I do not think that the New York Time, etc. etc., i.e. foreign journalists (!)has enough authority to give a "Grande Ecole" title in France! Feel free to agree with them, but their writings are only opinions, not truths!

To find truth, find the good sources.

You said before: My point of reference is the Sciences Po website, specifically http://www.sciences-po.fr/english/index.html. Go to the Overview section, and read the "Hundred Years of Innovation" section: Finally, 1984 saw the creation of the category of grand établissement in order to maintain the autonomy of a few select institutions vis-à-vis the newly-enacted directives on higher education. Sciences Po was one of the first institutions admitted to this category, thus ratifying a century of pursuit of the best professional education. As a grande école, Sciences Po enjoys the freedom and resources consistent with its expanding role and vision. At the same time, the fondation ensures that Sciences Po includes important elements of a university: a cluster of research centers, a major library and documentation facilities, and an active university press.

Not to mention just about every major international news outlet which included the Sciences Po as a grande ecole in their recent reports on the riots outside Paris, and the affirmative action program implemented by Richard Descoings, including the New York Times, Time Magazine, Newsweek, BusinessWeek, USA Today, and the several articles reported on this in The Economist. If the Scienecs Po website and these news outlets say the school is a grande ecole... indeed The Economist calls it "the grandest of the grande ecoles" in Vol. 369, Issue 8352... I'm inclined to agree with them.

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