Talk:List of Polish people

Old talk

This List of Poles includes a number of persons, who were not born in Poland, were not Polish and did not speak or write Polish language.

This statement was removed from the list. Answer to rmherman

Wikipedia has far too many misstatements and false statements in the area of peoples and lands , which are situated east of the Oder and Neisse rivers and thus were put under Polish Administration, as Harry Truman called it. It has been tried numerous times, to correct the mis-information on all these articles, but that only leads to either name-calling or vicious attacts. Therefore this writer will not get into discussions.

wikipedia is in that regard seriously flawed and leads one to suspect, that perhaps the publication of massive misinformation ( plus the numerous copiers) is on purpose ??

Johannes Hevelius, (1611-1687), astronomer

Was a Polish Astronomer born in Gdansk Poland who served under King Sobieski I beleive he should be added to the list.

I wonder if he was of German decent, or was Polish.Vancouverguy 04:22, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

He was Polish and was the first Pole elected to the elected to the Royal Society in 1664.

http://www.nd.edu/~dharley/HistIdeas/Hevelius.html http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=41189

Stop Changing the Proper Changes Vancouverguy.

The "polish" bit in the Brittanica article seems to be the Polish translation of his name. The other article does not say (at least at a glance) if he was Polish or German.Vancouverguy 04:31, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

He was born in Poland and is just as Polish as Copernicus, If copernicus is on the list then so should Hevelius.Kommiec 04:33, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

This site [1] lists him as German and this site [2] lists him as Polish but possibly of German origin. The notions of what is today Poland and what is today Germany didn't exist in the 17th century. Most sites avoid the controversy by simply stating that he was from Danzig/Gdansk. If it is not clear that he is Pole perhaps he shouldn't be on the list. InanimateCarbonRod 04:42, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

The Original Information was taken from Britannica in 1911 when Gdansk was Danizg(Current Britannica lists Gdansk,Poland) your first site seems to be a public domain site and it cant be credited. 12.243.94.55 04:46, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Is there such a thing as a German Pole? Or a German of Polish descent? I mean, can't a person be both? --Uncle Ed 02:43, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

In answer to Ed Poor's Questions, Yes, in Germany there are people, known as Polen-Deutsche (Germans from Poland), there are also Deutsch-Polen (German Poles) and a number of other variations.

Also, the first name(s) of a person identify him as German, even if he has a Slavic last name (sample: Wolfgang Lipinski, if his parents wanted him not to be German, they would not have baptised him Wolfgang or he would have changed it later). To classify anyone as Polish, who spoke German, was baptised with German names, lived in a German language community, is plain absurd. Dec 15 2004

Copernicus (D), Fahrenheit (D), Hevelius (D), Mandelbrot (F), Ulam (US) and Zamenhof (RUS) were not Poles, even though some of them were born in Poland? Stop the edit war!

In the last days I got the impression, that someone tries to change the Polish history. Copernicus (D), Fahrenheit (D), Hevelius (D), Mandelbrot (F), Ulam (US) and Zamenhof (RUS) were not Poles, even though some of them were born in Poland (in case of Zamenhof im not sure). I recognised it also in the Silesia or Silesian language discussions and now famous french or german people suddenly became polish. 82.82.126.128 14:48, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Zamenhof was born in Bialystok (since 1918 in Poland). He was Jewish and invented new language to avoid such considerations. ;)

--212.76.33.68 05:34, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Copernicus was both Polish and German. Ausir 09:35, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Was Copernicus Polish?

Was Copernicus Polish? In my opinion he was Prussian (german). 82.82.126.128 15:15, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Please read first the discussion about the nationality of Copernicus. Copernicus and his father, were Polish citizens. Copernicus' nationality AM

Copernicus definitely was German

Here a Copernicus statement from 1529 (Hermann Kesten):

"Wehe dir, armes Preußenland, daß du für eine so schlechte Verwaltung nun büßen mußt!- Wenn hier nicht bald Abhilfe geschieht, dann wird Preußen bald nur Münzen besitzen, die nichts als Kupfer enthalten. Dann wird jeder Handel mit dem Auslande aufhören. Denn welcher fremde Kaufmann wird seine Waren für Kupfermünzen verkaufen...? Einem solchen Verfall des Preußenlandes sehen die Machthaber ruhig zu; sie lassen unser liebes Vaterland, dem wir alles verdanken, dem wir unser Leben selbst schulden, durch kopflose Nachläßigkeit, von Tag zu Tag mehr, kläglich untergehen!"

In this text Copernicus says, he is Prussian. And Prussia, of course never was Polish. Copernicus had Silesian parents (in those days German).

Silesian maybe. But they lived in Krakow. Prussia had nothing to do with Germany.

AM

Being Prussian doesn't mean he was German...Prussians were Slavic and had a Slavic language before being absorbed by Germany and adopting German, were they not? In the 15th century I don't think that had happened yet, had it? (I don't really know.) Adam Bishop 15:24, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Answer to Adam: A common 'mistake' often printed in English-language publications Prussians were Slavic and had a Slavic language? No- Adam Bishop, that is completely wrong. Prussians were not Slavic, the language was not Slavic at all.

Copernicus definitely was Polish

Lands that became terrority of Prussia later on, were previously Polish ruled. See Wikipedia's definition of Prussian and Baltic, and the article below.---------------------Informationguy

Difference between Prussian German and native Baltic Prussian

While the nationhood of Germany did not offically exist at the time, there was peoples of the Holy Roman Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire) who believed themselves to be of German ethnic background. Also the Austrian Empire had peoples who defined themselves as German. From what I have read on Wikipedia.org, Copernicus was either ethnic Polish or Prussian-Baltic. There needs to be more discussion of being ethnic Polish on former occupied terrorities of Prussia terrorities and of the Baltic native Prussians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussians. Since, under the Wikipedia article on Prussia, it seems that the native Non-German Prussians spoke a language that was not German but a Baltic language related to Lithuanian and Latvian. "The name Prussia derives from the Prussians, a Baltic people related to the Lithuanians." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia Informationguy

Copernicus definitely was not German

A common 'mistake' often printed in English-language publications Prussians were German and had a German language? No, that is completely wrong. Native Prussians were not German , the language was not German at all. It is Baltic"The name Prussia derives from the Prussians, a Baltic people related to the Lithuanians." See above. Informationguy

Stop the edit war!

The slavic Origin of Prussia has nothing to do with Poland. Prussia became german long time before Copernicus. And, Copernicus spoke german. Even he would have spoken polish. Poland didn't exist in those days. Germany, too. Therefore he could be called Prussian, but not Polish. Therefore a Copernicus in a List of Poles is wrong. I think it is undoubtable, that Fahrenheit, Hevelius, Mandelbrot were no Poles. Please stop the edit war! 82.82.126.128 15:30, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

About Copernicus

In the days of Copernicus, Poland did definately exist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland. While there were many separate German states, and Germans living in the Holy Roman Empire and Austrian Empire, there was no unified Germany, but there was a Unified Poland. It should also be noted that Copernicus did speak several languages and terrorities that formely belonged to Poland were passed to Prussia and vice sa versa. Therefore, he belongs in a List of Poles, and you can also make a List of Prussians: Baltic Prussians, Polish Prussians, German Prussian, Polonized Baltic Prussians, Germanized Baltic Prussians. It is very important to remember the native Non-German Baltic Prussians. Informationguy

The list included also people born in Poland. I don't think we should care too much, about origins of people, if they were creative and had a chance to work in Poland or outside Poland.

In some cases people were born in what is Poland since 1945, but was German or Russian before.

Every reference to Copernicus I have ever seen except on the Wikipedia has said he is Polish. This includes the Encyclopaedia Britannica, see [3]. Markcollinsx 15:41, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

And the same source counts Fahrenheit as German, see [4]. This edit war is rediculous. andy 14:43, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

However, Fahrenheit signed Royal Society as Fahrenheit Polonus. Self declared Polishness should end the quarrel.

In those days Poland didn't exist. He was Prussian, Prussia was a part of German Empire. He spoke German, and, as I posted above, he said, he was Prussian. Perhaps he was not "German", but he was not "Polish", too. 82.82.126.128 15:49, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

He lived 200 years before the German Empire and was never citizen of Kingdom of Prussia.

Please read some history, before trying to fix an encyclopedia!!!!

Why are "North" and "South" Pole not listed here?? orthogonal 21:51, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

It is a ridiculous quarrel. My misterious User: 82.82.126.128, you are crazy! From your point of view there is no Americans: all are of foreign origins. Better, accordnig to your point of view Heine was not German (Jew) and kings of Great Britain are Germans. And Germans living east of Elbe are not Germans (are mainly of Slavic origin). As well as President of Slovakia (Rudolf Schuster). It is ridiculous, is not it?

Faranheit and Hevelius were born in Poland (Danzig belonged to Poland in XVII and XVIII centuries (from 1466 to 1793). Faranheit never lived in any German state! The French regard Maria Curie as French and the British regard Joseph Conrad as British (they were ethnic Polish born in Poland) and there is no problem for me. I would like to ask you to shut up, and start spoil the Wikipedia somewere else. Regards,

von Fiszman

I don't really want to get involved in an edit war, but isn't a catagory entitled Bad guys a bit POV? Gentgeen 09:31, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Schopenhauer was a German philosopher; never a Pole; was born German parents in the then Prussian city Danzig which for centuries was German as German can be.

1. Obviously, Schopenhauer was an ethnic German and German philosopher. But in 1788 Danzig was a part of Poland (untill 1793). Cities of Danzig and Thorn refused to join Prussia in 1772 and remained in Poland till the Second Partition. Poland at that time was a multiethnic state (Poles, Ruthenians, Jews, Germans and many other ethnic groups). As far as I know Germans consider many famous people of non German origin born in Germany as Germans (for example Einstein). 2. Schopenhauer opinion was that seizure of Danzig by Prussia in 1793 was a tragedy for this city.

User:Yeti

I removed this from the article: "This list includes a number of persons, who were not born in Poland, were not Polish and did not speak or write Polish language." However added it, please discuss your specific objections on the talk page so we can decide if certain names need to be removed to make it more accurate. Rmhermen 19:24, Jan 20, 2004 (UTC)

While he wasn't nearly as controversial as Kaminski or Dzierzynski, if the header of Bad Guys was changed to Controversial persons, shouldn't Kuklinski be included under that cathegory? He definitely was a controversial person. Ausir 22:14, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I think that listing him as a controversial person is rather disputable. Kpjas

Well, he is described as controversial even in his own article...Ausir 22:25, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I removed the name of Mr Adamowicz from the page. I do not think he is so famous that he should be included in the list of famous Poles. It is ridiculous to place there every local politician. Yeti 10:09, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Missing Poles

Why are North and South not included in this list? This is pure latitudinal discrimination, and I for one am deeply offended! -- orthogonal 03:21, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Polish Americans

Many Poles who emigrated to America (and England) altered the spelling of their names. It seems appropriate to list the names that they adopted and became notable under. Specifically, Helena Modjeska, who changed her name from "Helena Modrzejewska." Should Pola Negri be moved to "Barbara Apolonia Chałupiec"? Should Joseph Conrad be listed as "Teodor Józef Korzeniowski"? Cheers,-Willmcw 10:44, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Polski Słownik Biograficzny

Tnx to the help of dr Marek Jerzy Minakowski, the list of people mentioned in the giant Polish Biographical Dictionary is here: List of Poles from Polski Słownik Biograficzny. Or will be as soon as I can figure how to convert ~25,000 entries into a Wiki-readable format. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 12:53, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Done. I am not moving it here as the descriptions are in Polish. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 10:24, 14 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Four questions

Did chemists Hoffmann and Reichstein really get Nobel Peace Prizes?
Might Edward Stachura fit better in "Literature" rather than in "Philosophers"?
Why do some categories (e.g. Music, Literature, Philosophers) give birth and death dates, while others don't?
Why are some categories named by field (e.g. Music, Literature) while others are named by practitioner (Philosophers)? logologist 01:16, 26 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Don't hold your breath waiting for answers. If you see a problem, be bold and fix it. If anyone disagrees then we can sort it out later. Cheers, -Willmcw 03:43, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

Lukasiewicz the philosopher

Why was Jan Łukasiewicz (1878 – 1956) expunged from the roll of Polish philosophers? His article states: "He also pursued philosophy, approaching the human aspects of scientific theory-making with ideas similar to those of Karl Popper." logologist 00:37, 27 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

List in Polish

We should find some notable Poles from this list and translate their biographies: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategoria:Polscy_lekarze

Some of the reds are on that list too.

Pesky's Pole

I was just wondering, but should Pesky's Pole get a mention here too?

==Konrad Wallenrod" Konrad Wallenrod was Lithuanian. Someone was sleeping during classes... ;-)

-[[User:Mysekurity|Mysekurity]] ^{[[additions | e-mail]]}_{01:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)}[reply]

in the List?

Henryk Lipszyc

Franz Jakubowski

RfC on User:Antidote

User:Antidote aka User:HotelRoom, who has arbitrarily deleted several people from this list, is subject to a request for comment for repeated violations related to lists by country and sock puppetry, please see Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Antidote.--Pecher 13:42, 13 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

A new maroon... The persons were Polish Jews of course. And what? According to this point of view Heine, one of the greatest German poets is not supposed to be listed on the list of famous Germans and Leśmian one of the greatest Polish poets is not Polish. Moreover, there are no Americans or Australians as almost of of them are of "foreign" descent. C'mon man... Find yourself a new toy. Yeti 21:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Page Deletions

Territories frequently change, and hence, peoples of a particular affliation are sometimes born in a territory of another nation. The Germans of the Sudetenland were not Czechs, but they lived in the Czech Republic (or back then Czechoslovakia). Similarly, many Prussians/other Germans/Russians were born in the territory of Poland but were not Polish by any notable standards. If a territorial change occurred between Russia and Mongolia, the Russians who happen to live in Mongolia after the change are not in any way Mongolian except by territorial birth. The deletions that occurred here were not arbitrary, and those that did not make that much sense, were readded. Therefore, continuous reverts on this page to include these people can only be seen as a point trying to be made by USER:Pecher. Antidote 21:55, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Your argument, which goes along the lines of "who is Pole" or "who is Czech", misses the point of the list. The summary on top of the artcle says: "This is a partial list of famous Polish or Polish-speaking/writing persons, or persons born in Poland." Therefore, anyone who meets the above criteria should be on the list, whether or not they meet your definition of Pole.--Pecher 22:17, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

By your definition, "persons born in Poland", I added Paul von Hindenburg. Informationguy, 28 December 2005.

A simple solution to that would be to revise the heading. Honestly, nobody comes to a List of Poles to look for Prussians or Russians. Putting them on here is being a bit too politically correct. Antidote 23:20, 17 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

No solution is required because there is no problem. At least, from the point of view of all editors, except Antidote.--Pecher 15:14, 18 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There is a problem that needs to be assessed. Assuming it is not a problem just because many are not concenred with it is a bad method to go by. You cannot just ignore others input as you have been doing. You are just as stubborn as I in many cases, perhaps more. Antidote 18:17, 18 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Mentioning Partial Ancestries and Polish Jews

I don't see why it's necessary to mention someone as Polish Jewish on this list, considering Polish Jews have been assimilated into the populace for centuries. I do understand the tags designating those who are only born in Poland, but it seems pretty much counterproductive when all that needs to be done is to change the header and most of these people will not have to be included. 72.144.68.229 08:02, 27 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see why it's necessary to mention someone as Jewish on the List of German Americans, considering that German Jews have been assimilating into the German populace for much longer and deeply than in the history of Jews in Poland. "More than half of Germany's Jews intermarried with German Gentiles." from "The Rise and Fall of Adolf Hitler" http://imdb.com/title/tt0168336/ Also most on the list are people who are Polish on both sides of their family, less than half on the list are of Non-Polish ethnicity such as Jewish or German or Russian or anything else. Informationguy

Vote?

Would a vote on whether only names and professions be listed be appropriate? Or if you want you could just edit the page the way which seems most appropriate to you.

Informationguy

Signing comments

I kindly ask all the partcipants of the discussion to sign their comments. Thanks.--Pecher 07:45, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for listening. I have removed the "unsigned comment" templates.--Pecher 07:56, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There is one comment that I did not write but was listed under my name: the first comment "partial ancestries and Polish Jews". Informationguy

Feel free to remove the signature then and put the unsigned template there: {{unsigned|User date time}} . It is customary to sign comments with four tildas ~~~~ . To do that, you can press the second button from the right. Also, please make sure that you have logged in under your username before editing.--Pecher 08:07, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Names

Names ending with: uk (Ukrainian), zky (Ukrainian), sky (Russian or Ukrainian), stein (Germanic), berg (Germanic), man (Germanic), er (Germanic, English or French), ov (Russian or Bulgarian), ko (Belarusian, Ukrainian or Russian), ich (German or Russian), of (German or Russian), vili (Georgian), vicz (Russian). Informationguy

Ethnic Identity, Anti-Polonism, and Anti-Semitism

But Polish Jews from the US usually register as Polish too. As many as 3 million fromt he 8 million total Poles; plus few Polish-Jews were unassimilated in Poland. Antidote 23:05, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

--

Few German-Jews were unassimilated in Germany, and German Jews from the US usually register as German in addition to Jewish. Jewish history in Germany is much longer and deeper than the history of Jews in Poland. So why on the List of German Americans are the Jewish pointed out on the list? It seems counterproductive, why don't you deal with this page more so. I'm also aware that between 1881 and 1920, about 2-3 million Jews from the Russian Empire came to the United States, please provide facts as to if they listed themselves as being from either Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Estonia, Poland, Czech, Slovakia, former Prussia, etc. Informationguy

According to "Top Ten Facts" by Russell Ash, which showed the 1990 U.S. Census, over 9 million Americans stated Polish identity, you wrote only 8 million. Informationguy 29 December 2005

"Gang fights in Chicago were not always Black v. White. There was considerable trouble between Polish and Jewish gangs, and it was unsafe for Jewish boys to travel unprotected through Polish terrority or even into Douglas Park which was, in theory, a no-man's land. In the summer of 1921 Samuel 'Nails' Morton, by then already a decorated war hero, led a fighting gang into Polish terrority after some Jewish boys had been assaulted. The slogans of the day were 'Help the Hebes lick the Poloks' and 'Wallop the Polok'. The Syrian Persian community was not allowed north of Huron Street on Clark Street by the Assyrian Persian community. There were also German and Hungarian v. Italian and Poles v. Greeks and Italian gang fights, as well as Lithuanian v. Jews over the territorial rights to Stanford Park. See F. Thrasher, The Gang, pp. 196-200." from * Gangland International: The Mafia and Other Mobs by James Morton 1998, ISBN 0-7515-2237-6. "Reprinted 2000, 2001. Non-Fiction. The moral right of the author has been asserted". Page 417. Informationguy 28 December 2005

World's Oldest Poles

I believe that the birth and death dates in the military and crime section should be kept, since those in the military section signify the World's Oldest Poles, while those in the crime section signify when they lived and if they are still living. Informationguy

List of Ancestry Continued

Should their be only names on the list, on the bios the rest of the info? What about the categories? Informationguy

Don't be a Hyprocrite

If the the mentioning of someone being Jewish on this list is bad, as two people (72.144.68.229 and Antidote, have requested, then it should also be the case for the List of German Americans. Because if not, it would seem that it's customary for only German lists to single out Jews? Are not Jews listed as both a religious group and an ethnicity in Wikipedia? Also, why are Germans given their own category in the list of Poles if (72.144.68.229 and Antidote) don't want Jews to be listed as a separate category like Germans? Shouldn't then the Germans also be listed as Poles? Please explain this to me since it doesn't make any sense to me, I don't understand the logic in this. Informationguy

Since my list of people of Polish-Catholic origins showing whether it's from both parents or one, I have decided not to update this list anymore, so now others are going to edit it to their opinions. Please note that there were several people that edited this list in the past! Since I believe that language and identity are sometimes, but not always, separate, since I speak english but I am not of english ethnicity, nor do I have an english name. Thats all I got to say about that. Complete neutrality is what I aimed for. 29 December 2005 Informationguy

Mariusz Pudzianowski, Poland's answer to Arnold Schwarzenegger

What happened to the photo of Poland's manhood Mariusz Pudzianowski? Why is he under such heavy criticism? Who's stronger Pudznowski or Schwarzenegger? Informationguy

German Jewish American list, Polish Jewish American list

Since someone added a German Jewish American list, I added a Polish Jewish American list, IF this is Anti-Semitic then I will delete my edit, but the person that added their edit should in that case also delete their list. This was an attempt to create EQUAL TREATMENT in Wikipedia, for I believe that due to a larger amount of German wikipedia users, there is a Pro-German unfair double standard for Poles. Informationguy

Site for Ethnic Germans, Site for Ethnic Poles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_German

Ethnic Poles, Polonia

Informationguy

Neutrality

Since I believe that Poles have unfair treatement compared to Germans here, I don't think I should no longer contribute to this list, it's hard to be neutral in a non-neutral environment, I have been thinking of how to properly resign and I believe that this would probably be the best way. So, I will delete my edits if someone tells me they are Anti-Semitic. Other then that I will add no more to Wikipedia and quit Wikipedia. Right now. Informationguy

fine arts and painters

Please, ask before moving someone to the list of Polish painters. Sometimes those artists simply didn't paint a single picture, or like Rajkowska do things like a huge palm in Warsaw's street, and painting is only one of the skills she posseses but not her general domain. Some people are both painters and sculptors, and should be on both lists. Murak makes sculptures with grass, Kulik - mostly photographs and video arts, she's also a performer, Kozyra does video arts and photography.--SylwiaS | talk 23:09, 5 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Who is not a Pole?

There have been many discussions here about who's a Pole, so maybe we should also decide on who's not a Pole. For example Fjodor Dostojewski was not a Pole, even though he had Polish name and Polish roots in his family. Leelee Sobieski is not a Pole, even if she claims she has anything to do with our late king. Monica Lewinsky is not a Pole even if she has a Polish name. So let's make it clear. If someone had to emigrate, but still claimed his Polish nationality, and cultivated and stressed their belonging to Polish culture, we may claim they a Pole. If someone was born abroad but their parents grew they up in Polish culture, taught Polish language etc, we still may say they're a Pole. But if someone just has a Polish name after some ascendant God knows how many generations back, or just got a Polish name without any relationship to Poles (someone named Aaron is not a Pole by any streach unless he was born in Poland) then they're not a Pole. So please, having a Polish name doesn't make one a Pole. If someone was a gangster in a Polish gang in the USA then I can understand he was Polish, at least he claimed his Polish nationality by choosing the gang. But if someone is simply named with the "ski" at the end, it really means nothing.--SylwiaS | talk 00:01, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lets be clear Sylwia Monica Lewinsky is not a Polish name, it is a Russian/Ukrainian name. Because "sky" is Russian or Ukrainian not Polish. Lewinsky's parents were German Jews who had connections with either the Russian or Ukrainian nation. Those connections could of been by assimilation or name changing by which the original names should be listed, or through marriage, which would mean partial descent. By the way, there is a thing such as Ethnic Poles, Polish people whose descendants left Poland and went to USA and married only Poles, or sometimes other people and then they become mixed. And yes, having a Polish name does make one a Pole, having a Polish name means that in some way that person is connected to Poles (ether by adoption in which case both adoptive and real parents are listed, or by being Partly-Polish in which case the other ancestries would be credited, or fully Ethnic Polish in a country that is not Poland. And having the name Aaron does not always mean that the person is a Jew, sometimes it does through, but not always, people give first names according to one's personal taste, sometimes thats the case with last names, but if so, the original names would also be listed. So if someone has the suffix "ski" at the end, it means Polonia.

--Informationguy 6 January 2006

The ending "sky" being not Polish is just your definition. So let's be clear. Names ending with "ski" are Polish. Names ending with "sky" are often names of Poles that were russificated, and later translated into English from cyrylic. Check Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky.--SylwiaS | talk 00:31, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"The ending "sky" being not Polish is just your definition." - By your definition also, since you say that it's often "russificated" Poles, in other words: Changed Names, or assimilation, it's very important to clarify this, if not, they are not Poles. "ski" is Polish, "sky" is "russification" in other words, just as I said Ukrainian or Russian. - Informationguy

And any name ending with "ski" or "sky" is not of Jewish origin. Jewish people might wish to use a Polish name, but it certainly doesn't come from Yiddish or Hebrew. Also, give me one ethnic Pole who would name his son Aaron and I won't argue about it any more.--SylwiaS | talk 00:38, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I put that '"sky" is Russian or Ukrainian not Polish.' in the above article, please read it again. I know that "ski" is not from Yiddish, Ladino, Aramaic or Hebrew, but some Jews have assimulated changed names such as: Abramowicz or Jakubowicz, and some Jewish people changed their names to Polish names that end with "ski" but in the Wikipedia lists their original names are also listed. And I never said I knew an ethnic Pole by the name of Aaron, but some parents give their kids strange names because of personal choice, like Dawn, Hope and what about names like David, Moses, Benjamin, is everyone with those names Jewish? Or is everyone with the name Homer, a Greek? Like I said, there must be explaination given. - Informationguy

"Fjodor Dostojewski was not a Pole even though he had Polish name and Polish roots in his family." That means he's at least Partly-Polish, and unless you describe more with sources and explanations, fully Polish. --Informationguy 6 January 2006

"Leelee Sobieski is not a Pole", she's half Polish and half Jewish. If she's not a Pole to you, then neither is Frederic Chopin or Tadeusz Kosciuszko. --Informationguy 6 January 2006

Please, read the description from the article: This is a partial list of famous Polish or Polish-speaking/writing persons, or persons born on historically Polish soil. In the interest of fairness and accuracy, the minority of persons of mixed heritage have their respective ancestries credited.. You are free to reinsert anyone who can have listed his parentage. E.g. Leelee Sobieski as half Polish. And all the others as how much 1/16, 1/32 Polish? Just bring the sources. Chopin and Kościuszko were born in Poland, so they're Polish. Dostojewski hated Poles, so he wouldn't thank you for being listed here. And it's my point. Did the people really think themselves Poles?--SylwiaS | talk 00:26, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"And all the others as how much 1/16, 1/32 Polish", please bring the sources to show if they are partly Polish (half, quarter, 1/32 etc). Otherwise, they will be listed as either partly-Polish or fully ethnic Polish, depending on the information given. Informationguy

Dostojewski may have hated Poles, but if he's part Polish that doesn't change his descent. Chopin was only half Polish, and Kościuszko is a Belarusian name similar to the current president of Belarus. So I believe that the description also needs ethnic Poles will also be listed. And they could have thought themselves Poles, or other people could have thought so, both reasons are legitamate. - Informationguy

Deciding someone's descent on names only is rather silly. In this manner you would think me 100% Pole, what isn't true. On the other hand I am 100% a Pole and not my descent decides about it, but I do. Not everyone who wears a Polish name is a Pole. People have the right to choose. You shouldn't choose for them. I even think that if someone was born to Polish emigrants but didn't speak Polish and didn't think himself Polish, they shouldn't be here. But ok, let's say that the first generation born abroad still had Polish as their mother tongue. But what with the rest? If someone's great grand father was a Pole and the Polish name comes from him, but no one in the person's family spoke Polish, nor cultivated Polish tradishions, are they really a Pole? Or if someone was born to Jewish emigrants from Poland, and their parents had Polish name, but never spoke Polish living in Poland, didn't assimilate with Polish neighbours etc., is the person still a Pole? The description in the article is good. It says born in Poland or speaking/writing Polish. It doesn't mean everyone with a Polish name.--SylwiaS | talk 00:52, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Not everyone who wears a Polish name is a Pole. People have the right to choose. You shouldn't choose for them. I even think that if someone was born to Polish emigrants but didn't speak Polish and didn't think himself Polish, they shouldn't be here." - People do choose for other people when they immigrate from a country on whether that person is Polish or Russian or Jewish, it's listed. That goes against the entire reason of lists of ethnicity. Regardless, an ethnicity does not come from personal choice, it comes from unchangable descent, and people who tried in the past to hide or assimilate their ethnicity failed as many encylopedias such as Britannia show. Informationguy

Does Britannica defines someone's ethnicity merely on one's name?--SylwiaS | talk 02:45, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Encylopedias commonly define ethnicity as parental origin, or the origin of the birth parents, grandparents, this answer is repeated several times through the text. Informationguy

"I even think that if someone was born to Polish emigrants but didn't speak Polish and didn't think himself Polish, they shouldn't be here." - Why bother having any lists of ethnicity, lets all choose what to be? What do you want to be today? Thats being sarcastic and completely ridiculous. Informationguy

Well, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. But if ethnicity goes so many generations back, then indeed we shouldn't have any lists. We all come from Adam and Eve, or monkeys, choose whatever you prefer.--SylwiaS | talk 02:45, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Talk to the guy who invented ethnic lists about this. Informationguy

Many Encylopedias list where people were born, what ethnicity their parents or great-great-grandparents were, what religion they were, what there original name was, if they were adopted: if so their natural birth parents' origins are listed, if they are of mixed heritage: then their other ancestries are credited, not just what language they spoke or which country they lived in. Informationguy

Ok, so provide the information.--SylwiaS | talk 02:45, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Look into the lists, all the explanation is given, if only a Polish name is listed, then that is one source to be connected to Poles, information can also be added. Informationguy

"If someone's great grand father was a Pole and the Polish name comes from him, but no one in the person's family spoke Polish, nor cultivated Polish tradishions, are they really a Pole?" - Yes they are a Pole, and 100% Polish if the family married only ethnic Poles, but if none of them had children with any Poles, then that person would be 1/8 ethnic Polish. Informationguy

And that certainly makes him a Pole! If someone's ascendant emigrated in 19th century, no one in the family married with a Pole, and the person is now 5th generation after the one who gave the family name, then he is 1/16 a Pole. Is he still a Pole? Just because of the name? We're going to have the longest list ever here. Unless you are going to list everyone with English or German name as English or German.--SylwiaS | talk 02:45, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"then he is 1/16 a Pole. Is he still a Pole? Just because of the name" If someone is 1/16 Polish then that person is partly Polish, it still makes them more of a Pole then someone who was just born on former Polish soil or who speaks Polish or is only a citizen of Poland. Informationguy

"Or if someone was born to Jewish emigrants from Poland, and their parents had Polish name, but never spoke Polish living in Poland, didn't assimilate with Polish neighbours etc., is the person still a Pole?" - It doesn't matter if they didn't assimilate with Polish neighbors, that means either changing their names or intermarrying with Polish Gentiles, if they intermarried they would be Partly-Polish, if they changed their names they would just be assimilated Polish-Jews or Polish-Jewish-Americans, and they original names would be credited in encyclopedias of them. Informationguy

Well, their original names wouldn't be credited if the families changed the names many generations ago. Only 10% of Polish Jews were assimilated before the war, and even less used to marry with non-Jews, but much more changed their names.--SylwiaS | talk 02:45, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Well, their original names wouldn't be credited if the families changed the names many generations ago. Only 10% of Polish Jews were assimilated before the war, and even less used to marry with non-Jews, but much more changed their names." Please proof these allegations with sources as I did in ( "More than half of Germany's Jews intermarried with German Gentiles." from "The Rise and Fall of Adolf Hitler" http://imdb.com/title/tt0168336/ ) in the above articles. Informationguy

Furthermore, it is possible to know or find out if one's family name was changed many generations ago, and then that original family name can be found and credited. Please prove to me, that it isn't possible, for I believe that is it possible to find this out, due to the many Ancestry tracing products that are available to the public, just type into msn.com search engine: ancestry tracing, or family tree research, many Ancestry tracing products have been successful at finding out people's changed names (even if changed many generations ago) and these products are for sale. Informationguy

The definition of Ethnic Poles includes Poles who never spoke Polish or lived in Poland, nor have citizenship with the country of Poland. Informationguy

The definition goes: Ethnic Poles (usually simply called Poles or Polonia) are those who are considered, by themselves or others, to be ethnically Polish rather than anything else but who do not live within the country of Poland nor hold its citizenship. So, if someone was born in the USA, never met his distant Polish ancestor, speaks only English, has roots like Polish, Irish, Jewish, Greek, and is an American in third generation he is concidered American rather than anything else, even if he has Polish name.--SylwiaS | talk 01:58, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They are considered Ethnic Poles, Polish-Americans, a Non-Native-American just like Serb-Americans, Lithuanian-Americans, Slovak-Americans, Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, English-Americans, Mexican-Americans. With credit going to the full ancestry. If the person has Polish-American parents, grandparents and only loved the country of USA, then they would be fully 100% Polish-American, they can love Poland too but it doesn't change their descent, even if they immigrated there Ethnic descent wouldn't change, only if they had children with a Non-Pole could the child be partly Polish. However, if they had roots like "Polish, Irish, Jewish, Greek", then persumably they would be one quarter Polish, as it's called partly Polish. But you must be specific, what was the descent of the father, and the mother, along with their great-grandparents. It also depends on how the person's descent is mixed, the person may be 90% percent Polish, for example, as I said, there must be a full explanation, not political censorship or statements based on emotion rather than factual evidence. Polish name signifies Polish-American, for these reasons and the numerous reasons given above. Informationguy

No, you must be specific. If you want to add someone here, please, add also the information about this person's Polish heritage, not the person's name. And is it fair? How about people who are 1/4 Poles but haven't got Polish names?--SylwiaS | talk 02:45, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You can add in details, but a Polish name signifies a Polish connection, and those who are Partly-Polish and don't have Polish names, feel free to add them. With an explanation if they don't have a Polish name! Informationguy

How do you decide that Homolka is a Polish name?--SylwiaS | talk 00:56, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Two reasons: it ends with ka, see this source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Polish_surnames and the name of Wladyslaw Gomulka, a Pole. Informationguy

I think that name ending with "ka" may come from any Slavic country from Russia down to Macedonia, so there is a big chance that she's not Polish. Of course someone with a name ending with "ski" can be found in any other country too, so it doesn't prove anything.--SylwiaS | talk 02:45, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"I think that name ending with "ka" may come from any Slavic country from Russia down to Macedonia, so there is a big chance that she's not Polish." I think you are completely wrong. Here are my sources: on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_name#Poland lists the suffix "ka" as being Polish, while on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_name#Russia has the suffix "va" as being Russian. So since Homolka's name ends with "ka" this is proof that it's Polish, and of course a name ending with "ski" is in many other countries, because Poles immigrated to those other countries. This is the proof. Informationguy

A Pole might have immigrated to another country 500 years ago. The name may be still used, but the ethnicity would be 99% non-Polish. The link you gave doesn't list the suffix "ka" as Polish. The "ska", "cka" etc suffixes derive from Polish grammar and are used for women's names only. The name Homolka is not an adjective but a noun. Its masculine form would be the same. E.g. Tom Homolka. The word probably means something in some slavic language, but not in Polish, because I have no idea what it is.--SylwiaS | talk 03:38, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A Pole might have immigrated to another country more than 1000 years ago. The person can then use Ancestry tracing products that are available to the public, just type into msn.com search engine: ancestry tracing, or family tree research, and research into the areas were his ancestor has lived, ask Archeologists about the shape of the skulls and Historians about the historical significance of this. I'll remind you that there is an Old Polish language and the modern Polish language, in that case, then the persons name would be in Old Polish, which an English-speaker would understand as being similar to Old English in the English language. And even just 200 years ago, the Polish language was different than what it is today, certainly 500 years ago, the Polish language was much different than what it is today. So even 1% Polish is still partly Polish, even 0.0000001% Polish is still partly Polish if one has any Polish connection such as a Polish surname. Homolka might be a Czech surname, but give proof please. I'm now pretty sure that Homolka is a Polish surname because it ends with "ka" and because Wladyslaw Gomulka, a Pole with a very similar name to Homolka. Gomulka is a Pole, Homolka seems to be a Polish name, please provide your proofs, not "I have no idea what it is", that is insufficent. Provide sources, like I did. Informationguy

"This is a partial list of famous Polish citizens, Ethnic Poles, Polish-speaking/writing persons, persons born on historically Polish soil, persons of Polish descent or heritage, or those considered by others or themselves to be a Pole with the reason explained. In the interest of fairness and accuracy, the minority of persons of mixed heritage have their complete ancestries credited." Informationguy

Discrimination against Poles

"Table 1 shows an index of how different the Irish and others were from native Americans. (Philadelphia was one of the few cities with a large native American working class.) The data show the Irish were about in the same position as German immigrants, and much less liable to being boxed into a job niche than blacks, Italians, Poles or Jews."

From http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm "No Irish Need Apply": A Myth of Victimization by Richard Jensen, a Retired Professor of History, University of Illinois, Chicago.

Informationguy

I always thought that native Americans are Indians. Which means that actually every white American is from somewhere else. If we’re going to be so picky about their ethnicity, then the list of famous Americans shouldn’t exist, or list only famous Indians. Although one can’t choose their ethnicity, everyone can choose their nationality. That’s what all white Americans did. Anyhow, I don’t say that all the people are not Poles, but we don’t know if they are. Moreover, it’s unlikely that they are. I didn’t remove those people who were said to have Polish parents. But let’s keep to some realities. If we know nothing about someone’s heritage, their name really doesn’t mean anything. Let’s limit the list of emigrants to people who are at least ½ Poles.--SylwiaS | talk 03:02, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Anyhow, I don’t say that all the people are not Poles, but we don’t know if they are. Moreover, it’s unlikely that they are...But let’s keep to some realities." Again, I disagree with you. Lets keep to ALL realities not just some, as you recommend. And moreover, if they have a Polish surname then they definately have a connection to being Polish and belong on the list. Informationguy

There are sources to find out if people are Poles. Their name signifies that without a doubt they are connected with Poles, and could be fully 100% Poles, the list should stay, and any with mixed hertiage will have their complete ancestry credited. So, (their having a Polish name does make one a Pole, having a Polish name means that in some way that person is connected to Poles (ether by adoption in which case both adoptive and real parents are listed, or by being Partly-Polish in which case the other ancestries would be credited, or fully Ethnic Polish in a country that is not Poland). - Same answer to the same question you are repeating yourself. Informationguy

And what if someone for some reasons only changed his name to a Polish one? And to some other thing which you wrote somewhere up, but it's easier to answer here. If someone was born in Poland, grew up in Polish culture, and thinks himself a Pole than he's certainly more Polish than someone who has only some distant ascendant. I really don't understand the blood percentage rule. It reminds me Hitler saying that everyone who has at least one of grandparents a Jew is a Jew.--SylwiaS | talk 03:48, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If someone only changed their name to a Polish one, like Roman Polanski (born Rajmund Liebling), then his original name is credited also, not just his changed name. There is a difference between a descendant of a Polish citizen and an Ethnic Pole, but you obviously don't seem to care. The list clearly says anyone of Polish ethnicity (blood) or citizenship/culture can be included and their complete ancestries are credited in the interest of accuracy and fairness. Informationguy

I do care, that's why I think there should be some reasonable frames. And I really don't think that the names say anything. Ok, let's try such an example: Woody Allen, (born Allen Stewart Königsberg). So the article says that he changed his name, but it doesn't say when he's family changed their name to his previous one. Because Königsberg certainly was not their original name. And now, does the name mean that he's Polish, German, Prussian or Russian?--SylwiaS | talk 04:07, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's a Germanic name, German or Yiddish. If your interested in Woody Allen then you can research whether his family changed his name to Konigsberg from something else. Informationguy

Königsberg is a German name, not Yiddish. It’s a name of a town that belonged to German Teutonic order, then was a Polish fief and then was in German Prussia. Today it’s in Russia. Woody Allen’s family took the name, so they had to live there. Let’s say that they lived there for many centuries. One time they would be German Jews and the other Polish Jews, though they married only with Jewish people. Is Allen now German or Polish?--SylwiaS | talk 04:46, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your question is wrong. The question is, is Woody Allen descended from Polish-Jews or German-Jews or Russian Jews, since the question is only about the ownership of the soil his ancestors were born or lived on, then he his ancestors can be both German-Jews and Polish-Jews. Another question can be asked is, whether anyone of his ancestors was Polish? If so, which one? Then he could be added to the list as being partly-Polish if that were the case. Since Wikipedia lists Jewish people as not only a religion but an ethnicity as well. Informationguy

Then imagine that none of his ancestors was either Polish or German, as probably none of Aaron Kosminski’s was. If Woody Allen himself was born in Poland or Germany, he would be added to a relevant list, but as he’s born in the USA he’s not added anywhere. The name doesn’t make him neither Polish nor German.--SylwiaS | talk 05:11, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Aaron Kosminski's parents were most likely assimilated Polish-Jews or perhaps he had a Polish father or grandfather, research him if your interested in him. If Woody Allen's ancestors were born on former Polish soil, then add him to the List of Poles, with the explanation: ancestors born on former Polish terrority. After all, I added von Hindenburg because he was born on current Polish land. Informationguy

"Reminds you of Hitler" I don't see you complaining about this on the List of German Americans or lists of Germans, but you have a problem with Polish lists doing the same thing on Wikipedia. This seems like an obvious double standard against Poles, and in favor of Germans, as I said before. Informationguy

First of all, it's not a list of Polish Americans but of Poles. Second, I don't care about list of Germans, because I'm not a German only a Pole. Third, no, I don't have to prove you that people are not Polish, you have to prove they are if you want to place them on the list.--SylwiaS | talk 04:10, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a list of only Poles, it includes Ethnic Poles which includes Polish-Americans. And if they have a Polish surname that is proof that they are in some way connected to being Polish. If they are in some way non-Polish, then their full ancestry should be included. Having a Polish family name is proof enough to list them there with the explanation that the person has a Polish family name. Informationguy

Homolka

So Oskar Homolka [5] is also Polish? And this place in Czech called Homolka [6] is in Poland really? This famous bohemian Homolka dynasty mentioned here is Polish as well? And this Czech cyclist Adam Homolka [7] must also be Polish? Great, names tell everything, indeed!--SylwiaS | talk 04:28, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- Polish and Czech are both West-Slavic languages just like Slovakian, while Serb is South-West Slavic. Polish belongs to the Lechitic group of West-Slavic languages. Now, on to those people, first provide sourced information as to those people you listed as being completely Non-Polish without a trace of Polish origin (as you claim), provide the proofs. Perhaps, those people you listed are Polish or partly Polish. Names tell origins, so far you have not stated the origin of Homolka other than Czech citizens with the name, I can claim Wladyslaw Gomulka also as a source. Names do show origins. Informationguy

Old Polish language to modern Polish, Old English language to modern English. "I'll remind you that there is an Old Polish language and the modern Polish language, in that case, then the persons name would be in Old Polish, which an English-speaker would understand as being similar to Old English in the English language. And even just 200 years ago, the Polish language was different than what it is today, certainly 500 years ago, the Polish language was much different than what it is today."Informationguy

You mention European dynasties? Those dynasties such as the Queen of England's heritage or the Habsburg-Lorraine dynasty which ruled the Austrian Empire, had mixed heritages, and those heritages are listed. Informationguy

There are also places in Czech Republic with German names, does this mean the Czechs are all German? First give the sources that the name Homolka is Czech and not Polish, then move her to the Czech list then. Informationguy

Does Wladyslaw Gomulka have a Polish or a Czech name then? Informationguy

Gomułka not Gomulka has Polish spelling, but it's the only characteristic thing. The name doesn't have to be Polish at all. And it's not similar to Homolka in any way. I don't have to prove that the woman is not Polish, you have to prove that she is. Otherwise it's original research. So find her heritage or she must go.--SylwiaS | talk 04:56, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Gomulka..doesn't have to be Polish at all", whats that supposed to mean. You didn't answer the question. Is the name Gomulka Polish? Yes or no, if no, then what language is it in? Informationguy

The claim that the name Gomulka is not similiar to Homolka is ridiculous, almost identical spelling, and the same sound, and the same suffix, the Polish "ka". These are significant evidence to her being Polish, you have to prove that the name Homolka is not Polish, because in light of the above evidence, it seems she has a Polish name. It's your original research that her name isn't Polish, I used Wikipedia's sources, and found that the name Homolka seems to be Polish. So if you prove that she's Czech and not Polish or partly Polish, then you move her to that list, or she should stay. Informationguy

You seem preoccupied with this Homolka person, it really does seem like she has a Polish name thats why she was added under the caption Polish name, so if her name is Czech and she's not Polish then move her to the Czech page, but give sources as to where you got the information. Informationguy

Gomułka spelled with ł is Polish, Gomulka may be from any other Slavic language. I don't have to move Homolka to Chech list. She's Canadian, it's where she belongs.--SylwiaS | talk 05:23, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Chech list?" Did you mean Czech or Čech, the legendary founder of Bohemia, in Czech Republic or the Chechen people of the former USSR. Since Wikipedia does not have a "Chech list".

Thats completely wrong, if Gomułka is Polish, then Gomulka is also Polish not from any other Slavic language, I repeat if Gomułka is Polish, then Gomulka is also Polish not from any other Slavic language. This is because people in English-speaking countries don't offically write Polish names with the accents. Now you have yourself admitted that Gomulka is Polish, and it seems that Homolka is a Polish-Canadian (fully or partly). There is a thing called Ethnic Poles not living in Poland, writing in English or other languages, not just citizens of Poland who write every word and letter with Polish accents. So, if Homolka is not Czech, she seems to be Polish, she would then be a Polish-Canadian (fully or partly), you'll have to provide sources on her family name/tree to list her properly then. She seems Polish-Canadian. Informationguy

What I meant is that it's very possible that in other Slavic languages the name Gomulka would also be present. It's not popular in Poland, maybe somewhere else it is. Slavic languages are really very similar to each other. As well as the names. Usually names mean something. Like Smith in English. Homolka is a name of a place in Chech, maybe the place belonged to the Homolka family. I don't understand how Gomulka proves that Homolka is a Polish name, and in the same time the Czech name Homolka doesn't prove to you that Homolka is a Czech name.--SylwiaS | talk 05:46, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

All I seen is the name Wladyslaw Gomulka in the Polish language, of a famous Polish politican. The Russian/Ukrainian "sky" is different from the Polish "ski", etc. Slavic languages are very different to each other such as the Polish "ek" and "ak" compared to the Belarusian "ko" or the Ukrainian "uk" or "zky", for example when it comes to East-Slavic languages like Russian, Belarusian or Ukrainian compared to Polish. And your ridiculous statement "the Czech name Homolka doesn't prove to you that Homolka is a Czech name" makes no sense, show that it's a Czech name, there are German names of areas in Czech Republic but this doesn't prove that Czech's are Germanic rather than West-Slavic. Gomulka shows similiarity to Homolka being a Polish name, if Homolka is a Czech name, you bring her to the list of Czechs with an explanation of yours. Informationguy

Really Gomulka isn't popular in Poland? Is it in the Top 16 lists? or the Top 20 lists? Where is this proof that Gomulka isn't popular in Poland, or more importantly where's the proof that the name Gomulka isn't Polish? Informationguy

Aaron Kosminski

I checked Kosminski. He was born in former Poland's territory. At least this source says so. It doesn't make his ethnicity Polish, but the place of birth is correct. I'm not going to search all of them. If you want to add them, you bring the sources.--SylwiaS | talk 05:40, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Check the introduction it states anyone connected to the Polish land, language, ethnicity, culture or that is considered by others to be Polish is the main criteria for the list of Poles. It's not only a list Poles or complete or partial Polish ethnicity. Informationguy

Good then he was born in Poland then, he is "a person born on former or current Polish terrority", add him with the caption, born in former Polish territory. I never said Aaron's ethnicity was Polish. There is a big difference between Ethnic Polish and Polish citizen, Aaron Kosminski, Jack the Ripper suspect, is most likely descent of assimilated Polish-Jews, or perhaps his father or great-grandfathers was Polish-Catholic? Informationguy

If I want to add someone with a Polish name, the name is proof enough that the person is in some way connected to Poles. A name signifies heritage, either one's ethnicity or where one lived and changed it too the original name if available should be added. But a Polish name can be added with the explanation: Polish name. Why are there people on this list without Polish-names and without explanations as to how they are Polish? There should be an explanation given for this. Informationguy

They didn't write where exactly he was born, so I don't know if it's former or current Polish territory now. It was former Polish territory then, because Poland was partitioned. As to his parents or grand parents. I know that it may seem strange now, but they didn't intermarry back then. They started in 20th century. Maybe some in very late 19th century. And if they did intermarry, they stopped being Jewish. He would become a Catholic then or an atheist. At least it's very little probable that a Catholic would convert to Jewish religion. And a Polish Catholic would never name his son Aaron. It's just a thing of different cultures. Jews were just changing their surnames to have them sound Polish. It doesn't mean Polish ethnicity. Many Polish Jews had Jewish first names and Polish surnames. Similarly many Polish Jews changed their names once again when they emigrated to the USA. Just check the list of Polish Jews and see how many of them changed their names then. So now, if Kosminski had children, they wouldn't belong to the list. Because they would be neither of Polish ethnicity or born in Poland, though their names would sound Polish. I hope we can agree at least on that.--SylwiaS | talk 06:09, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"I know that it may seem strange now, but they didn't intermarry back then. They started in 20th century. Maybe some in very late 19th century. And if they did intermarry, they stopped being Jewish." They did intermarry back then also, Jacob Frank did, and if they did, they still were Partially-Jewish, just as when a German intermarries with a Pole, the child is Partial-German and Partial-Polish. Informationguy

"Because they would be neither of Polish ethnicity or born in Poland, though their names would sound Polish. I hope we can agree at least on that" No agreement on that ridiculous statement, a Polish family name indicates that the person's ancestors were connected with the Polish land, and Aaron Kosminski's children's ancestors were in some way connected with the Poland land/language so his children should also be on the List of Poles, if they made somewhat of an impact on people, such as all the people listed on the List of Poles have. Informationguy

Do more research, find out where exactly he was born. Informationguy

"He would become a Catholic then or an atheist." Again, I strongly disagree, they would become either a Catholic of Jewish parental origin or a Jewish person, if there mother is Jewish, (if their father would be Polish they would also be half-Polish ethnically) or a half-Jewish person if their father is Jewish. While, being an Atheist (one who does not believe in God or Gods) is a personal choice made by many people of former Catholic religious affliation.

"He would become a Catholic then or an atheist. At least it's very little probable that a Catholic would convert to Jewish religion." - This is a ridiculous claim, as it's commonly known that any Rabbi would accept a person with a Jewish mother as being Jewish, (however, if their father would be Polish they would also be ethnically half-Polish) while someone with a Jewish father, would be listed at least as half-Jewish. There are many Catholic born people who become Atheist. Not only Jews become Atheists, thats ridiculous. Informationguy

"And a Polish Catholic would never name his son Aaron." A Polish Catholic can name their son whatever they feel like, like Moonchild, it does not change their descent. How do you know, you have any proof that Polish Catholic's follow strict traditions? No, they don't, not all of them. Also, if he had a Jewish mother, he would be considered Jewish, (however, if their father would be Polish they would also be ethnically half-Polish) while a Jewish father, then half-Jewish. Informationguy

True, their child would be both Polish and Jewish. But a Polish Catholic father would very likely not agree that his child would go to synagogue, no matter what the Rabbi would say. A Polish Catholic father would not name his son Aaron. I don't say today, though it's still very rare. There are some Davids and I know one Samuel. So yes, the custom of giving Christian or Polish names is still observed. But in the beginning of 20th century the custom was observed strictly. My name is Sylwia. Believe me, there are very few Sylwias born in older generations. Even though it's just a Roman name. Still, it's not a name of a saint, nor of Polish origin, so it was very rare. If Kosminski had a Polish Catholic father, he wouldn't be named Aaron. If you think that surnames say something about ethnicity, than first names say even more.--SylwiaS | talk 07:03, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"both Polish and Jewish". Wrong wording, it's half-Polish and half-Jewish. What about Leelee Sobieski, her father is Polish-Catholic and she goes to the synagogue, but if a Polish Catholic father would marry a Jewish woman then he would obviously care enough about her to let her culture also be shown to her child, of course neither you or I can speak for all people, because if we all use stereotypes, like "a Polish Catholic father would not name his son Aaron" then I can also say "All Poles are car thevies", both have equal validity. "So yes, the custom of giving Christian or Polish names is still observed." Many Christian names have Hebrew origins, so your claim is foolhardy, and who observes this? There's no rule for Poles to obey naming traditions, so no one has to observe this, it's not enforceable. Where's the proof that many or all Poles do this? Informationguy

There's no rule for Poles to have meatless Christmas Eve, and still no one eats meat. Those are traditions and customs, and they are observed.--SylwiaS | talk 07:51, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How do you know if no Pole eats meat on Christmas Eve, there are Poles who don't obey those traditions and customs, those are cultural, not obeying them does not change one's Ethnicity or their birth religion. Poles can become Atheist, but if their born to parents of Polish-Catholic origins then they are listed as being being of Polish-Catholic descent regardless if they decided to become Atheists later. Poles that don't obey holiday customs still can be Ethnic Poles. There are some Poles who would spit in your face if you would say "all Poles do this or all Poles do that" to them. Informationguy

"If Kosminski had a Polish Catholic father, he wouldn't be named Aaron." - A Polish Catholic father who would care enough about a Jewish woman to marry her it's reasonable to think that he would respect the child's mother's wishes, and of course Poles do whatever they want they can give their son the name Moonchild or Israelovitch but that wouldn't change their Polish-Catholic origins. Informationguy

"If you think that surnames say something about ethnicity, than first names say even more". Again, I completely disagree, since people in English-speaking countries commonly give their children English first names (even if their immigrants from any European country) but keep their family name as to keep their ancestrial heritage alive and known. Having English first names but Polish family names among Poles in English-speaking countries is common, and usually to many English names there is a Polish translation such as Wladek (Walter). Informationguy

Yes, that's the problem. You try to apply modern English/American customs to old 19th/20th century customs in Poland.--SylwiaS | talk 07:51, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also in modern Poland there are citizens with Polish first names, but non-Polish family names, such as Miller thats not a Polish name, while many Poles in Poland do still have a Polish family name, and yes, in this Century! Informationguy

I compared English/American customs to Polish-American customs, Polish-Americans are ethnic Poles who live in an English/American culture. And many english first names have Polish translations, while Polish family names are kept Polish by the spelling and letters not by accents on each letter, by Ethnic Poles in countries outside of Poland. Your claim about me is completely non-valid. Informationguy

Thats why I think that surnames are more important than first names. Even though, sometimes first names indicate ancestry, in that case, list their other ancestry. Informationguy

"It's just a thing of different cultures. Jews were just changing their surnames to have them sound Polish. It doesn't mean Polish ethnicity." Again, wrong extreme stereotyping. The truth is that some Jews changed their names to Polish ones, and they are listed as Polish-Jewish or Poles with Jewish parental ancestry.

Many Polish Catholics have Polish names, and they aren't Jewish. While many Polish-Jews have Yiddish (Germanic) names, and some have assimilated Polish names and there ancestries are documented.

Usually, a Polish name signifies Polish ethnicity, don't forget that most Jews came to Poland during 16-19 centuries, and in Poland there was the Baal Shem Tov who stressed with Hasidism that Jews should not assimilate into foreign culture, while in Germany there was the opposite with Reform Judaism, and the assimilation philosophies of Moses Mendelssohn being widely popular.

I know about it. That's why they didn't intermarry. But changing one's name doesn't mean assimilation.--SylwiaS | talk 07:07, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Changing one's name is a form of assimilation. A name signifies language connection, and that language was created by a specific group of ethnic people. Informationguy

Yiddish is mostly German and Hebrew, the Polish contribution seems smaller than the Russian, and on former Russian terrorities came Khazars.

"Many Polish Jews had Jewish first names and Polish surnames". I think more had Yiddish surnames and sometimes Polish first names, but of course, if one changed his name, then it's documented as to what it's changed to or you can research it. Informationguy

I really wonder how you want to research names changed hundreds years ago. And that in territories where buildings and all the papers were burnt. Try for example searching when Kosminski's family changed their name.--SylwiaS | talk 07:51, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While I really wonder how you can prove those names were changed hundreds of years ago, it seems like a wild conspiracy theory. I really wonder how you have the gall to claim that "all the papers were burnt". Where is the proof of this? Papers have survived same with records and they are preserved and documented. Kosminski's family history can be found with "Ancestry tracing products that are available to the public, just type into msn.com search engine: ancestry tracing, or family tree research, and research into the areas were his ancestor has lived, ask Archeologists about the shape of the skulls and Historians about the historical significance of this. I'll remind you that there is an Old Polish language and the modern Polish language, in that case, then the persons name would be in Old Polish, which an English-speaker would understand as being similar to Old English in the English language. And even just 200 years ago, the Polish language was different than what it is today, certainly 500 years ago, the Polish language was much different than what it is today." You see, I have already answered your question several times throughout this talk, it seems that your purpose here was making as long as possible text without regards to the repetativeness of your questions, which I can only respond with a repetative answer. Informationguy

Also where is the proof that Aaron Kosminski's father was not a Polish-Catholic that married a Polish-Jewish woman? Please provide sources, not "maybes", because then I can also say that maybe he was half-Polish and half-Jewish on his mother's side. Informationguy

More Polish Jews had Yiddish surnames and sometimes Polish or Yiddish first names. Informationguy

"Because they would be neither of Polish ethnicity or born in Poland, though their names would sound Polish." No agreement reached. They would be listed as having been descended from Polish-Jews that changed their name, with their ancestrial name credited like Roman Polanski, his name was changed from Raymond Liebling to Roman Polanski. Still, this is a list of Poles not only Ethnic Poles although Ethnic Poles are also credited. Informationguy

Polanski is of partial Polish ethnicity. Also he grew up in Poland. Studied here and started his career here. He speaks Polish. He's a Pole.--SylwiaS | talk 07:17, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Polanski is Partly-Polish, and should be listed as a Partly-Polish person, since their is a difference between a Polish citizen and an Ethnic Pole. Those who you don't believe to be Ethnic Poles, prove that their not, for without proof your word is meaningless. Informationguy

They would be decendants of people born in Poland, unless you want to make it a list of only Ethnic Poles then they should not be on the list. And I never added Aaron Kosiminski which you seem to imply, but you did mention that he was born on former Polish land so he belongs on the list under the current definition. I added Joseph M. Kuklinski brother of Richard Kuklinski who had Polish-Catholic parents. Informationguy

Yes, they would have somewhere in their papers that someone from their family was a Polish Jew, but does it really mean that they should be listed as Poles? The list is very long already. There were separate lists made not to list everyone here. Like list of Polish painters, writers etc. Maybe there should be a separate list for people who had at least one ancestor born in Poland? This list is the main one, and it shouldn't list everyone, just the most important names.--SylwiaS | talk 07:17, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Then credit their full ancestry if they have someone in their family as Non-Polish. Thats the point here. Informationguy

I disagree with not listing everyone, the wording is wrong. Since how would it be possible to list millions of Poles on a single Wikipedia web page? No, it should list Poles who did things that made an impact on people (whether good or bad). Those separate lists made not to list everyone here are hyprocritical lists. Since those same people appear on both lists, such as list of Poles and list of Polish Jews. So why are you arguing for a separate list, when the same person is listed on both lists. Either, one person should be mentioned once on one list but then you would definately have to re-word the introduction into a stricter meaning or the page's criteria for being a Pole as it is. Go right ahead, if you want to attempt this feat, since this would logically seem to be what your trying to say with "separate lists" unless you don't really want to find an answer to this problem that you presented with your innuendo. To make more but smaller lists, but keep one person on one list, or to keep it how it is. There's the possiblities to dealing with this. Informationguy

People without Polish names and without any explanation as to how they are associated with Polish people or Poland

There are many on this list but it seems that people with Polish names are questioned. Thats a complete break from logic! I question the one's without Polish names and without any explanation as to how they are associated with Polish people or Poland, there are quite a few on the list. Informationguy

Well, some of the people simply live in Poland and were born here. Name really doesn't say everything. But show the people and we can add the information.--SylwiaS | talk 06:21, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Non-Poles with Polish names, if they were Part-Polish or Polonized Balts, Lithuanians, Germans, Jews, Gypsies, Ukrainians, Russians, Slovaks, Serbs, Sorbs, Czechs or anything else, their full ancestries would be attempted to be credited, this is an ongoing effort, not something that will take a short time. And assimilated Jews like Polanski's family would be listed as having been descended from Polish-Jews that changed their name, with their current name credited like Roman Polanski, his name was changed from his ancestrial Raymond Liebling to Roman Polanski. Still, this is a list of Poles whether by citizenship, birth on soil, with an ancestral connection with "Polish writing/speaking" people which can also refer to people with Polish names. The original author wrote not only Ethnic Poles but anyone with a connection to anything Polish, and of course Ethnic Poles are also credited. Informationguy

Of course, in Germany there's also Part-German or Germanized Balts, Sorbs, Serbs, Lithuanians, Poles, Jews, Gypsies, Ukrainians, Hungarians, Czechs, Slovaks, etc. But the German lists are subject to very little criticism on Wikipedia. I do feel a pro-German bias against Poles here. Informationguy

"Name doesn't really say everything." - This is a change from your "name doesn't really say anything". A name definately says something, and it's definately a start to showing their origins. Since a name shows their connection to that language and/or people and it's worth knowing whether someone has a Polish family name or not. Informationguy

Ethnic Poles

Look at the many Poles of Polish ethnicity there's Richard Kuklinski I wasn't the one who edited that article you can check the page history there's sources there too, but here's also some sources: http://www.angelfire.com/amiga2/iceman , http://www.angelfire.com/amiga2/iceman/photo_album/ , http://www.angelfire.com/amiga2/iceman/richard/family.JPG . And don't forget to read the article, you can do that by clicking on it.

Thanks, but I didn't remove Kuklinski :)--SylwiaS | talk 06:19, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Polish names

A Polish name shows a Polish connection to the person, if no other information is immediately available other than a Polish name, it's worth saying that it's a Polish name on the List of Poles. "An ancestral connection with "Polish writing/speaking" people which can also refer to people with Polish names". Informationguy

Sources, please

Wikipedia policy doesn't say that other users have to find sources for the one who writes an article. It says that if someone wants to write an article, one should bring sources. So please, bring yours. It's a list of Poles = people of Polish ethnicity or born in Poland. So please, bring sources proving that. Otherwise, create a list of People wearing Polish names and move the people there. Good night.--SylwiaS | talk 07:38, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please prove that those born in Poland are of Polish ethnicity, or they would just be people of citizenship nothing more. Otherwise, create a list of People with Polish citizenship, or in your style People wearing Polish citizenship, and move those people there. Since a Polish family name is a source showing there connection to Poles, not only citizenship should be counted. Otherwise, why are non-Jews with German family names on the list of Poles being listed as ethnic Germans, there are also ethnic Jews (listed as both a religious group and ethnicity on Wikipedia) or ethnic Ukrainians that are being ignored. A person of Polish citizenship is not always an Ethnic Pole, while an Ethnic Pole is not always a Polish citizen. While a Polish family name signifies a definate connection with Polonia. You should also prove that those people with Polish family names are not Polish if you claim that. For it seems, that people with Polish family names are ethnic Polish until proven otherwise. Informationguy

Anyone with an ancestral connection with "Polish writing/speaking" people which can also refer to people with Polish names, regardless as to how they got them. Of course, their complete ancestries should be credited so that no confusion abounds as to who is considered a Pole. A Polish name signifies connection in some way to "Polish writing/speaking people", and as you show know the inventors of the Polish language were most likely Ethnic Poles! A Polish family name is significant to someone being Ethnically Polish rather than just being a plain citizen or being born on Polish land. Since people born in Poland are listed, people with Polish family names should also be listed. Informationguy

Ok, let's make the other list. Now really good night.--SylwiaS | talk 07:53, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Make what other list. A separate list for Ethnic Poles, people born in Poland, partial Poles, assimilated Poles, Germanized Poles, etc. People with Polish family names seem to have just as much right to be listed as Poles, as some who were just born on current Polish land, like von Hindenburg. Informationguy

Where is the proof that the people with Polish family names are not Ethnic Poles as well, their family name is their identity too, not just those who speak Polish only because they live in Poland, there are documents surviving of people's family name histories. I would like to see you prove that anyone of the people with Polish family names are not Ethnic Poles as well. Even if you attempt this, you still haven't attempted, it still wouldn't change their connection to "Polish writing/speaking people", unless some editor figures out a way to change the wording of the introduction and/or to make more separate lists of Poles, with a person written once on one list. It would be quite a feat. Informationguy

John Paul II

A Wikipedia editor wrote that there is evidence that John Paul II, born Karol Józef Wojtyła, his mother "is of Jewish extraction". Informationguy

Clarification

I never said that Poles changing religion would stop being Polish. I said that Poles marrying Jews in 19th century would raise their kids as Catholics and give them Catholic names. How Polonia members call their kids today is irrelevant to this case. What names are given to Poles born in Poland even today you can check in Polish phone books. List of names of many millions of Poles should be enough for a proof. Unless you’re going to argue that only people with traditional Polish names are allowed to have a phone number. Jews in Poland today rarely give their children non-Polish first names. It’s a sign of assimilation. It wasn’t the case before the war. Anyhow, many people of 100% Jewish ethnicity have Polish surnames. Check here: Family_name#Ashkenazi_Jewish_surnames. Polish surname didn’t mean assimilation. Maybe you should also read History of the Jews in Poland. Also, here is more information on various topics: Intermarriage of Poles [8], intermarriage of Jews FAQ [9], examples of intermarriage – you can see how many kids of Jews and Catholics are raised as Jews even now, adhering to Judaism in such cases was much less probable in 19th century Poland [10], Jewish intermarriage statistics [11], here is the only one known convert to Judaism Valentine_Potocki as you can see he’s totally legendary. Some Polish Catholics did convert but to Protestantism.
The situation of Jews in Germany was much different than in Poland. It shouldn’t be taken as an example. In Poland Jews made about 8-10% of all Polish citizens. Before WWII about 10% of them were assimilated. It doesn’t mean that they all intermarried. It also doesn’t mean that in 19th century there was 10% of assimilated Jews in Poland, on the contrary.
Polish-Jewish origin means that someone is both partly Polish and partly Jewish. Polish Jew means an ethnic Jew living in Poland. If the Jew leaves Poland, he’s no more a Polish Jew only e.g. an American Jew. A member of American Polonia is not a member of English Polonia. Aaron Kosminski was a Jew born in Poland, similarly as Paul von Hindenburg was a German man born in Poland. Neither Kosminski’s nor Hinderburg’s children born abroad would be Polish. Their ethnicity wasn’t Polish, no matter how the name sounds.
Please, don’t change the description of who should be on the list of Poles and who shouldn’t be. Things like that should be discussed first.
There are some people on the list, who shouldn’t be there. It doesn’t justify adding more people without any references to their ethnicity. It only means that the list should be cleaned up.
I didn’t write that all papers were burnt only that all papers were burnt in the buildings that were burnt. Today professional historians have difficulties with investigating some facts referring to WWII history, and you claim that you can trace the genealogy tree of anyone born here even hundreds years ago. Well, good luck.
Many Poles have names that you wouldn’t consider Polish, as you seem to stick to the general trend as a strict rule. It doesn’t mean that the people are not Poles.
I read authors like Mikołaj Rej and Shakespeare, or rather I should say, I’m not 6 year old, and I accomplished my education.
Please, don’t disrupt my post. Give your answer below.--SylwiaS | talk 08:23, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"I said that Poles marrying Jews in 19th century would raise their kids as Catholics and give them Catholic names". There's no proof of this, some Poles marrying Jews in the 19th century would either convert to Judaism or raise their children as Jews.
"Polish-Jewish origin means that someone is both partly Polish and partly Jewish." - No it doesn't, it means a Jewish person of Polish citizen and has been referred to various times like this.
"If the Jew leaves Poland, he’s no more a Polish Jew only e.g. an American Jew." - No, his ancestors would still have been connected to Poland.
"Unless you’re going to argue that only people with traditional Polish names are allowed to have a phone number." - Phone number means nothing to ethnicity, a black African can also have a phone number listed in Poland.
"Anyhow, many people of 100% Jewish ethnicity have Polish surnames" So what, they would still be connected via ancestry to Poland, and many people of 100% Polish ethnicity that are not Jewish also have Polish family names.
"Jews in Poland today rarely give their children non-Polish first names. It’s a sign of assimilation" A family name is a much stronger sign of assimilation than a first name.
"Polish surname didn’t mean assimilation", Again, your wrong. A family name is a much stronger form of assimilation than a given name.
"The situation of Jews in Germany was much different than in Poland. It shouldn’t be taken as an example" Again, I strongly disagree, many Jews in Poland, recently came from other countries such as Germany, Russia, Ukraine, England and France in the 16-19 centuries, so the situation of Jews in Germany should be compared to be seen how different it was compared to Poland.
"A member of American Polonia is not a member of English Polonia" Polonia means Poles not living in Poland, and Polish-Americans are not in the British-Poles section.
"Neither Kosminski’s nor Hinderburg’s children born abroad would be Polish. Their ethnicity wasn’t Polish, no matter how the name sounds." - Again, I strongly disagree, Kosminski's name is Polish not "Polish-sounding" as you claim but it is a Polish family name. A Polish family name is a much stronger assimilation and much stronger connection to the Polish language than just a Polish given (first) name or just a citizenship. Since a family name is a much stronger form of assimilation than a given name, Kosminski's children would have their ancestors more connected to Poland than Hindenburg's. So Kosminski's children would also belong on the list of Poles.
Also where is your justification for changing the introduction?
I also never disrupted your posts, I gave answers below, so any innuendo hinting that I didn't give my answers below is non-valid. Informationguy

Historical territory vs. current territory

Historical territory means the territory that was considered Polish in times when someone was born, even if it was under occupation. People born in Wrocław or Szczecin in 19th century shouldn't be added here, because the cities are not considered Polish in reference to 19th century.--SylwiaS | talk 09:02, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the part Germans born on current Polish land is irrelevant. Germans born in the places that were considered Polish should stay, because they were born in Poland as all the other people considered citizens of Poland. The other names should be deleted. E.g. Gabriel Farenheit was born in free Poland, so he belongs here. Paul_von_Hindenburg was born in German occupied Polish town, so he belongs here too. But Werner von Blomberg was born in Stargard Szczeciński that was a part of Kingdom of Prussia long before the Partitions of Poland, so he shouldn't be here. Similarly Manfred von Richthofen who was born in Wrocław doesn't belong to the list.--SylwiaS | talk 09:37, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't it be easier to just put them all under one section called "Ethnic Germans born in Poland" ? That way we can just put them all there and stop the controversy that might insue from German nationalists. Antidote 16:31, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why are German nationalists given more importance than the listing of other ethnic groups, why would you favor only the "German nationalists". Informationguy

Introduction

Informationguy put:

"This is a partial list of people who made an impact on a society (whether in a good or bad way) and are considered to be Poles by being in any way connected to the Polish (former or current land), language, ethnicity, or culture.

In the interest of fairness and accuracy, the minority of persons of mixed heritage have their respective ancestries credited.

This list has been subject to dispute as to which persons may properly be listed as Poles, due to Polish terrorities having been at various times occupied by foreign countries, and due to the spirited discussions of ethnic identity across the world."

SylwiaS put:

"This is a partial list of famous Polish or Polish-speaking/writing persons, or persons born on historically Polish soil.

In the interest of fairness and accuracy, a minority of persons of mixed heritage have their respective ancestries credited.

This list has been subject to dispute as to which persons may properly be listed as Poles, due to Polish terrorities having been at various times occupied by foreign countries, and due to the spirited discussions, in recent years, of ethnic identity in the United States, Canada, the Americas, Europe, Asia, Oceania and Africa."

The minority of persons of mixed heritage should be credited, not "a minority", hinting that only some people of mixed heritage would be credited, rather all should be credited in the interest of accuracy.

With Sylwia's introduction, all those people with Polish family names would have to be immediately removed, where was the consensus reached before Sylwia did this? Sylwia clearly changed the introduction so that no one with a Polish family name could be included, despite a family name being a stronger form of assimilation than a given name, and despite a Polish family name showing a visible connection to the Polish language and/or ethnicity

Whether this connection is current or ancestrial should be described in the introduction, but if only a Polish family name is known, that is still a visible connection to the Polish language and/or ethnicity. Informationguy