Talk:Ramayana

I am removing the spoiler warning. It seems out of place while describing an epic, a religious one at that. It makes as much sense as adding a spoiler alert in Bible chance 10:18, Dec 9, 2003 (UTC)

The last books

I doubt that the last books of the R. are "later additions". I realize that this is the "official" opinion, as since the 19th century, Sitas's fate as a sati is considered "politically incorrect". Still, I don't see any valid arguments to assume a later addition for that. If there are some, they should be added. Nick

The NASA images DO NOT reveal the shoals of land to be man-made. This was fabricated in someone's imagination and passed on.

Rrjanbiah and Ramayana spin-offs

"Interesting slants on the epic have been created that view the Ramayana from the eyes of the asura king of Sri Lanka, Ravana, and his clan. Dravidian Tamil books such as the Ravanakaviyam and Kambarasam are the oldest of this genre. A more recent reprisal of this theme, curiously analagous to Virgil's Aeneid in relation to the Iliad and Odyssey, was created by the famed Bengali writer Michael Madhusudan Dutta, who rendered what he appelled the Meghnadh Bodh Kobbo (Tale of the Death of Meghnadh) in Bengali epic poetic form. Of course, all these texts share a similar opposition to the traditional hero-role of Lord Rama."

Note, my friend, that it's clearly stated here that these books all "share a similar opposition to the traditional hero-role of Lord Rama" and that they "view the Ramayana from the eyes of the asura king of Sri Lanka." I don't know why you're getting so upset. I merely excised your sentence which says that the books "slant" the Ramayana. There is no such verb, in the English language, as "to slant" where the meaning is to run in opposition to. I hope you're not being petty with me because of other disagreements in other pages, since no one's arguing the idea that the Tamil and later Bengali stories are counter to the conventional spins of the story. No one's changed the content, given misinformation or done anything of the sort. I mean, both sentences above are mine! --LordSuryaofShropshire 19:05, Aug 28, 2004 (UTC)

The major problem is that you don't know anything about the subject, but you _presume_ certain ideas and pushing here. I guess, you didn't read Kambarasam page (where I left *at least* few ideas about the book). Ravanakaviyam and Kambarasam are not oldest. Kambarasam was criticising the dirty/illicit/obscene character of Rama. Ravanakaviyam characterize Rama as villan and Ravana as hero; it glorifies Ravana's characters (good characters) and etc. --Rrjanbiah 04:51, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

YES! I KNOW! THat's why I've written that! I said that they go against the traditional grain of Rama as a hero and glorify Ravana's side! How am I disagreeing with you? I'm not! I simply corrected some grammar and left explanation clear!--LordSuryaofShropshire 15:40, Aug 30, 2004 (UTC)

You KNOW, but the your edit is *still* WRONG. If you *really* KNOW what Ravanakaviyam and Kambarasam is, you would have fixed it. --Rrjanbiah 04:39, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Jesus Christ! There's no difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying. You can't even point to anything! You just disagree for the sake of disagreeing. I'm not talking to you anymore. You're not a reasonable individual. --LordSuryaofShropshire 16:03, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)

I guess, it is time for me to plonk you. Perhaps you should find a place other than Wikipedia to add your "fictions" and your "KNOWN" ideas. I'd thought that you're a Hindu Osama, but your jugglery shows you're a Christian terrorist. *thread plonk* --Rrjanbiah 05:34, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ramayana

I came across this site which had collection of good links on ramayana. I wanted to suggest one more link which mainly concentrates on webcasting Ramayana, Geeta(weekly) and other philosophical discourses in Kannada.

Here is the link: Ramayana: http://www.vyasamadhwa.org/sundarakanda.htm Sundarakanda: Sundara Kaanda is the heart of Raamaayana. It is the story of Hanumantha, who is the personification of the highest form of Jnaana, Bhakti and Vairaagya. These three attributes when blessed by the Lord will make one, lead a purposeful life in this world and attain Moksha thereafter. Hanumantha is the ultimate symbol of efficiency and optimisation. No act or word of his is either superfluous or deficient. He is the perfect role model for all of us to emulate. If we do, all our apparently imponderable problems will wither away. It will cleanse our mindset of greed, jealousy and anger leaving us free to lead a successful life as useful members of society.

Geeta(weekly): http://www.vyasamadhwa.org/recital.htm

Geeta (Archived earlier discourses) http://www.vyasamadhwa.org/archive.htm

Hope it will be useful for people who want to know more about Ramayana and Mahabharata,

demise of Book 4

The Empire of the Holy Monkeys was removed in December - is this because of conflicts between translations, or was it an accident? Both the introduction and the Valmiki Ramayana indicate it was grouped in 7 books.

Don't know why it was removed, but it should be there. I have restored it. —Lowellian (talk) 08:29, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

Ramayana and History

I've started a section called "Historical evidence" that records the various archeological reveals that point to the historical significance of Ramayana. All those of you from different parts of India, please add the points from your nearest ancient city, with pictures of archeoloical/religious monuments that are said to be related to that. --H P Nadig 03:27, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Rama's bridge

While the section on this island chain says that it was discovered by NASA, I'm quite certain that the chain was known before, and I'm reasonably sure but not certain that it is marked by the name 'Adam's bridge' on older, pre space-age maps. NASA probably used an old British name. In the present context, it would make sense to name it Rama's bridge. Imc 19:52, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I have removed the section. It's a hoax. (Sources here and here). The original claim itself is preposterous. It claims that the bridge is 1.75 millions years old. Human ancestors only evolved approximately 2 million years ago and Homo Sapiens most definitely haven't been around for 1.75 million years. Vivin Paliath (വിവിന് പാലിയത്) 23:54, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I guess you're just bowing out for factoids instead of looking at the NASA image. There's no official technical/scientific document as mentioned in the article pointed by you, that suggests the bridge didn't exist. There might be varied opinion about its age, but one has to take into account that besides theories, even the exact dates of Ramayana are also unknown.

I wrote that Laputan Logic article back in 2002. These kinds of structures are created by ocean currents and are not all that rare. As for the purported age of 1.75 million years, I think it's worth pointing out that, geologically speaking, India and Sri Lanka were a single piece of land only 18,000 years ago.

Hereis the famous image which I believe was actually taken in 1996 and this is what the Encyclopedia Britannica had to say about it back in 1911:

"ADAM'S BRIDGE, or RAMA'S BRIDGE, a chain of sandbanks extending from the island of Manaar, near the N.W. coast of Ceylon to the island of Rameswaram, off the Indian coast, and lying between the Gulf of Manaar on the S.W. and Palk Strait on the N.E. It is more than 30 m. long and offers a serious impediment to navigation. Some of the sandbanks are dry; and no part of the shoal has a greater depth than 3 or 4 ft. at high water, except three tortuous and intricate channels which have recently been dredged to a sufficient depth to admit the passage of vessels, so as to obviate the long journey round the island of Ceylon which was previously necessary. Geological evidence shows that this gap was once bridged by a continuous isthmus which according to the temple records was breached by a violent storm in 1480. Operations for removing the obstacles in the channel and for deepening and widening it were begun as long ago as 1838. A service of the British India Steam Navigation Company's steamers has been established between Negapatam and Colombo through Palk Strait and this narrow passage."

Speaking of "factoids" this whole thing was a creation of the Indian news media. The oldest version of this story still online is here although I know it was lifted from the *religious section* of another site. A few more images of the sandbar here and here. John Hardy 23:09, 16 May 2005 (AET)

There is no place for the natural causeway under "Historical Evidence". The Ramayana states that the bridge was actually built. How could a Natural Causeway be evidence of that? We could perhaps hypothesize that there used to be a land bridge between India and Sri Lanka, which Rama and the Vanara Army could have used. --Vivin Paliath (വിവിന് പാലിയത്) 20:48, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Spelling of Vali or Bali

I believe the standard spelling for the name of Sugreeva's brother is Vali, not "Bali", as in the article. The Sanskrit text in Devanagari uses the semivowel 'va' and not the labial 'ba'. User:RajeevA

Dating of Ramayana

I came across this artical which dates Ramayana around 3000 BCE as is clear from the description of astronomical events in Ramayana, but if you go through Mahabharat then it is also dated around 3700 BCE. Did the two epics evolved around the same time? Is the fact of Ramayana being atleast 10000 years older than Mahabharat false? My head is spinning. Experts please clarify.

Subhash Kamboj

Manuscripts

What is the oldest extant manuscript of Ramayana? Do we still have the original writings of Valmiki from 4th-2nd century BCE? --Itinerant1 23:04, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

There are no "experts" in this "field". All we have as a connection between that as-of-now "unconventional" version of earlier civilizations and this one are devoid of anything "practical" or materialistic. Whenever, wherever and however the Vedas, Puranas etc including the epics might have been composed, the ones we know to survive today constitute less than 1% of the original scriptures or texts in content as allusions to way larger numbers are uniform and consistent, so that that could not be considered the work of some Hindu fanatic or something similar at a later point in time.

The most important thing about the Ramayana is that *nothing* concrete by the methods of modern science has been found to substansiate the occurence of the epic, but the story as been modified probably even after the Christian Era began. However the astronomical data as far as I know dates the occurence of the epic itself to around 70,000 years back, then figures like 1.7 million and 880,000 sound absurd though if one were to go by the Yugas concept they are correct. In any case, 3000 BC would be too recent as the Mahabharatha is consistently dated to that period (again astromically and through other non-concrete ways and not through the methods of modern science). Also the "Rama's bridge" is rather bizzare. It is clearly a natural causeway and not a manmade structure. The only reference to Lanka in a gographical sense is that it was in Dravida and might have been around "100 Yoganas" (either 500 or 800 miles) South from Kanyakumari. That would place the Maldives as closest or maybe at the probable location.