Talk:Sathya Sai Baba

Please talk about what you want to write in the page Sathya Sai Baba. and DO NOT use this page to advertise petitions.

- Kesava 0430 19 Jan 2004 UTC

What should be added is that

1. the Sathya Sai central trust is the largest single recipient of overseas donations in India even though the Sathya Sai Central Trust rarely asks for donations.

2. there are well documented allegations of sexual abuse of young men by Sathya Sai Baba (SSB). That his alleged homosexuality is in contradiction with his claim to be pure and his teaching about chastity

3. there is good reason to believe that the birth date of 23 november 1926 is a fabrication. According to his school register he was born in 1929. Ex-followers of SSB accuse him of having changed the date to match a prediction by the Indian guru Aurobindo.

4. SSB is a hermaphrodite if we may believe various independent testimonies or performs a trick to make young men and boys to believe that he can change himself into a woman

5. the PM Vajpahee is a follower of SSB

6. the president of India Abdul Kalam visited Sathya Sai Baba's main ashram

7. there has been a documentary called 'Seduced by Sai Baba' on Danish TV which showed young men who claimed that they had been sexually abused by Sathya Sai Baba.

8. SSB's extraordinary claims of omnipotence and omniscience have been proven to be untrue by the skeptic Dale Beyerstein.

9. SSB claims to be a purna avatar like Krishna

10. the scholar Brian Steel and ex-follower found out that the original Telegu discourses were heavily edited.

11. even some ex-follower can't find a rational explanation for the miracles that they have experienced when they were a follower. Some ex-followers refuse to retract the miracles that they claim to have experienced.

12. quite a lot of people defected from the organization after ex-follower David Bailey published his Findings.

13. SSB assertions about magnetism shows huge discprepancies with generally accepted scientific knowledge about this subject

14. it has been proven that SSB sometimes uses sleight of hand for his materializations. Not only in the movies online but it has also been seen by so many people. The word credible in the article is too weak.

15. SSB wants his followers not to use the internet. Ex-followers and critical outsiders see this as SSB's way keep his followers. Followers see this as a good protection against the poison of calumny.

16. SSB's teaching are an eclectic mixture from Hinduism

17. The US government has issued a travel warning against SSB, in the section crime in Andhra Pradesh

18. ex-followers accuse him to be a dangerous quack

19. in contradiction to the current article (24 Jan 2004) the size of the contributions of the Sathya Sai Central Trust to the water project in Andhra Pradesh are disputed.

Andries 24 Jan 2004

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Andries, can you please use the "Show Preview" button. You have already made 19 saves in 1 hour. I've messaged you at User_talk:Andries. Jay 11:10, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)

• Okay I will. Andries 11:20, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)

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Still to do by Andries

• Sathya Sai organization (indulal Shah?)
• Murders investigation, shot by the police after they had been tied?
• darshan daily
• Educare (fomerly called Education in Human Values)
• Not possible to discuss it with in the SSO, examples Matthijs van der Meer, Ella Evers, Serguei Badaev, Barry Pittar, Terry Gallagher etc.
• Sathya Sai speaks http://www.sssct.org/Discourses/Speaks/Pages/Main.htm
• Paul Holbach: Allegation, Hypocritical invitation for investigation of authenticity because the setting of the ashram is such that real investigation is not possible.

Andries 23:34, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

copy from Andries' tak page

I havn't read it yet, and I will read it, but I wanted to tell you that I exploded with laughter as soon as I opened the page. I have seen this guy before, and always in negative contexts. Also, his hair is a great source of amusement for me. Anyhow I will read the page and give you more substantial feedback next time ;) Sam Spade 21:45, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Amazingly NPOV. I am very impressed with your impartiality, and the thoroughness, this is really a very fine article. You are clearly a solid editor to be able to edit something this close to you so well. Many people tell me (or show me by their POV edits) that they are unable to edit on articles close to them personally. I'd be interested in discussing theology with you some time, this is an article I have written (Pantheism).

I agree, I've seen Andries single-handedly change the page from a stub, I've tried hard to spot and remove POVs but not succeeded yet ! Jay 09:37, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your compliments. I think the main reasons why I was able to write a NPOV article on this subject in which I was so intensely emotionally involved is because it is now several years that I became an ex-follower. Secondly I still have a intellectual interest in the subject. Thirdly, there have been many excellent articles of ex-followers and last but not least it bothers me to read some articles that state that believers in SSB are blind and stupid quote from salon.com about SSB "No matter -- in this part of the world, faith is absolute. Believers don't refuse God, and they don't question him.". I think this is one sided and unfair and I feel vicariously insulted when I read it so I want to show the skeptical, objective readers the other side of the story. Andries 10:53, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Borrowing teachings from other religions

LordsuryaofShropshire, I don't agree with your edit that SSB occasionally uses teachings from other movements. He uses them very often. However, he uses occastionally teachings from other religions, like Buddhism and Christianity. I will revert your edit. His teachings are a confused and for his followers confusing mix of (sometimes contradicting) teachings from the rich heritage of Hinduism.

With regards to your edit about bhajan singing, I guess you are right. This was an old edit (not by me) which was not corrected because I wasn't sure about it. Andries 11:06, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I was not disagreeing that he doesn't use ideas from other faiths. It's just that when it states his borrowing from religions, the following laundry list of ideas are, every single one of them, part of the Hindu tradition. Also, like with the ridiculous statement on bhajans, a lot of these ideas are made to seem like original philosophies whereas they are common practices in India from centuries before his arrival on the scene. --LordSuryaofShropshire 18:07, Apr 25, 2004 (UTC)

I agree with you even though I don't know enough about Hinduism to be certain. The strange thing is, if this is true, that it is difficult to spot plagiarism by SSB. Andries 18:16, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Relationship with the allegedly Muslim Sai Baba of Shirdi

What I meant to say with regards to SSB's claim to be a reincarnation of Sai Baba of Shirdi is that SSB never showed Muslim traits nor Muslim teachings unlike Sai Baba of Shirdi. Andries 21:36, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I understand you now! Well, I edited what you edited... heh... basically I changed it to something along these lines: while he claims to be Shri Shirdi Sai Baba reincarnated, a man whose following responded to a harmonious blend of mystic Islam and Hinduism, Satya shows no signs of Muslim influence. --LordSuryaofShropshire 23:58, Apr 29, 2004 (UTC)

That is even better. Thanks. Andries 00:44, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Prophecy, Incarnations, Prema Sai Baba

I once read in an article where the details of Satya Sai's future incarnation are mentioned - his name, the state and town/village where he will be born and the time. Can this information be included in the article. Jay 05:54, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

There is only anecdotal evidence for the future birth date & place of Prema Sai Baba, from private interviews, not from public discourses [1] & [2]. I will include it though because the story is popular among followers. Andries 11:27, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

To Alteripse, Birth place and date revert

Alteripse, I reverted your edit on the place of birth and date because only the date is disputed, not the place. Your other edits were very good. Thanks. Andries 15:55, 1 May 2004 (UTC)