Talk:Pac-Man/Archive 1

Changed Description

I changed the description of the linked Java game from: "virtually the same as the arcade version" to "similar to the arcade version (with aspects of Ms. Pac Man)." If you look at the Java game, you'll see it is similar, but is not identical to the original Pac Man. Also, the fruit moves around, which was a Ms. Pac Man innovation. I guess you could say it looks "inspired" by the original. —Frecklefoot 15:25, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

There are tons of subtle differences too. The fruits are all oranges, no intermissions, different fonts in some cases, death looks different, etc.

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Deterministic?

When the ghosts are blue, their behaviour depends on the contents of the program ROM chips; while this is deterministic it could be interpreted as being pseudo-random.

Mention it in the article, then. Also, sign your posts (~~~ or ~~~~). —Frecklefoot 16:29, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

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Game List

There should be a proper game list for Pac-Man. It is an entire series of video games, and they should be included in the article. I don't know them all, so someone else would have to include them. -user:Thealexfish

Let's see, they span several platforms, so keeping it straight would be tricky (but possible). Let's see:

• Pac-Man (arcade, Atari 2600, [other platforms])
• Ms. Pac-Man (arcade, [other platforms])
• Super Pac-Man
• Pac-Man Plus
• Baby Pac-Man
• Jr. Pac-Man
• Pac & Pal
• Pac-Land
• Pac-Mania
• Pac-Man V R

Plus there were several console-only spin-offs such as Pac-Man World. These two links will be helpful: arcade versions and Moby Games entry on PC and console games. —Frecklefoot 00:16, Mar 30, 2004 (UTC)

What about adding the new DS games? --Luigi 19:41, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps the Pac-Man series should get a seperate page, including the game list? Kouban 15:31, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

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Irony

In regards to Sethmahoney's removal of the word "Ironically" in this sentence:

Ironically, Atari allegedly paid Frye $1 million to produce the game in contrast to Toru Iwatani, who was only paid his usual salary for creating the original arcade game.

...because it wasn't "ironic." It is ironic because the arcade version netted millions for Namco while the 2600 version netted very little, if anything, for Atari. Huge fortunes = regular pay; huge loss = huge bonus -- that's irony! :-)

I'm not going to make a big stink about it, however. If someone else wants it in too, please re-add it. — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:46, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)

From the Wikipedia article on irony"

The American Heritage Dictionary recognizes a meaning of "incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs". This would allow the example above. (Their usage panel, however, found it unacceptable to use the word "ironic" to describe mere unfortunate coincidences or surprising disappointments that "suggest no particular lessons about human vanity or folly", which would still allow the above usage but exclude "ironically, I encountered a traffic jam when I was already late".)

Yes, it was an unexpected turn of events, but no, there was no lesson re: human vanity or folly.

On the other hand, Fowler, in The King's English, says "any definition of irony—though hundreds might be given, and very few of them would be accepted—must include this, that the surface meaning and the underlying meaning of what is said are not the same". Fowler would thus consider the Sullivan example above as incorrect usage.

The surface meaning (that there was a large difference between what was paid and what the programmers made) is identical to the underlying meaning (that there was a large difference between what was paid and what the programmers made). -Seth Mahoney 17:19, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)

If I understand what happened correctly (and I may not - I'm tired) the man that produced the rubbish Atari version got a million dollars and the guy that made the original aracade success got a standard wage. I would deem that acceptable usage of the word irony. You might want to term it a bitter irony if anything.

I'm reminded of that terrible woman's song lyric entitled Ironic: It's like ten million spoons when all you need is a fork, it's like ray-ee-ain on your wedding day, none of which are ironies, merely unfortunate circumstances. --bodnotbod 18:33, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)

I think you got the situation right (except the guy who make the original arcade game was promoted), and its definately absurd, and definately unfortunate for the guy who made the original game, but its just not quite (imho) ironic. I was reminded of the woman who can go nameless' song as well. -Seth Mahoney 07:01, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

I suppose injustice would be more apt. --bodnotbod 11:08, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

But

Injusticeically, Atari allegedly paid Frye $1 million to produce the game in contrast to Toru Iwatani, who was only paid his usual salary for creating the original arcade game.

just doesn't have a nice ring to it IMHO. ;-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:40, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

What about "Absurdly, Atari allegedly..." or "Unjustly, Atari allegedly..."? -Seth Mahoney 20:30, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

What about "It is interesting to know that,..., while..." --Anupam Srivastava 19:17, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

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Infobox

I just added the Infobox from Wikipedia:WikiProject Arcade Games. It's a standard that will be used on all arcade game articles. I hated to nix the great caption the previous image had, but it looked really bad in the infobox, so, sorry! If we get another image of gameplay, we can add the great caption back in. If you want to help out with the Arcade Game WikiProject, come on over and add yourself to the Participants. Cheers! :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:08, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

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Pac-Man statistics?

I remember reading a stat on the total amount of money spent on Pac-Man video games and the number of quarters that was. It was a pretty impressive number and would add an interesting fact to the article. Can anyone find that or have a source for it? Thanks - Taxman 14:53, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)

You can find some statistics if you google for "pacman quarters billion" in google. Most sources seem to agree that it were "4 billion quarters worldwide". Which I think is odd, since most countries don't have quarters :) But it's quite sure that it earned more than $1 billion. --Tjansen 22:11, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

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Image of Pac-Man

The captured image shown in the article is, if I know corretly, of some shockwave implementation of the game. Why dont we put the original capture? I am saying so because since Pac-Man's release and moreover in recent years, we can find many versions/implementaions of the game, which generally do not follow the actual gameplay and copy only the 'looks' (from my personal experience). So, we should stick to the original Pac-Man. Isn't it? --Anupam Srivastava 21:13, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The screenshot looks authentic to me, but feel free to make a better screenshot :) My problem with the pic is rather that the main character looks like a dot, you can't see his mouth. It may also be helpful for understanding the game if some dots would have been eaten. The problem is the legal situation: AFAIK there is no legal way to obtain a Pacman ROM. Maybe if somebody owns a pacman arcade machine, doing the screenshot is ok... or if you live in a country without software copyrights. Or ask the owner of a different site whether you can take theirs. --Tjansen 22:03, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

OK! I think I have got someone who owns a legitimate copy of good old Pc-Man. He is in Benaras. May be he will allow me to get a snapshot :)--Anupam Srivastava 18:18, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The thing about 'paku' is it could romanize as either 'puck' or 'pac' with equal validity. still..

Reverts

There appears to be a mini-revert war going on on this article's page. Can someone explain the controversy here? --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 19:33, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

Can someone please explain what is going on? If one more person reverts this page without some discussion on the Talk page I'm going to consider page protection. Also, I'm pretty sure that some of you are in violation of the WP:3RR. I don't want to start handing out blocks but PLEASE, discuss the problem on the Talk page first. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 21:59, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

Every Arcade Game has copyrighted and trademarked logo "the Marquee" non-different than how Coca Cola and other products Logos, they are relevant and, so, fair use It is a Screenshot not from the Game but from the machine, i have no problem with. And the small form of the box is better, so that we can insert all engineering information without article to increase. AshSert 10:20, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

AshSert, judging from the discussion on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Arcade games, you made these changes without the consensus support of the other editors in that WikiProject. As this decision should be made on a wider scale than this one article, please resolve the discussion on that WikiProject's talk page first. In the meantime, I am reverting your changes so that the infobox matches the guidelines set on Wikipedia:WikiProject Arcade games. This is not an appropriate place for this discussion or edit war. Once the WikiProject comes to a consensus on these changes and they are reflected on the WikiProject page, you can instate your changes on a wider scale. Cheers, --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 15:31, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

AshSert is at it again. He changed the infobox to the style he prefers (see this edit with a misleading edit comment), even though it was voted down on the Arcade Game WikiProject (see this discussion). He also vandalized the project page and changed it to his preferred style. The guy really should be banned—I've lost count how many times he's changed the arcade game articles when we've voted against it. — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:05, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)

Perfect Score

This article http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050614/ap_en_tv/pac_man_s_25th says the perfect score was made by Billy Williams (not Mitchell). Anybody got a definitive source?

This site says Billy Mitchell. So does this site. This site mentions Mitchell, too, and even has a photo of him. I think the reporter of your story got the kid's name mixed up. ;-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 13:50, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Billy Mitchell wasn't a kid when he got the perfect game. He was, and still is, in the Hot Sauce business. Check out Twin Galaxies for more information on him and other perfect scores. Which leads me to say that more information would be nice to add on how a perfect game is actually acheived, ie. all ghosts must be eaten on every board where they turn blue (levels 1 through 16, inclusively, and level 18), all of the "fruits" must be eaten, for each extra man the 9 pellets that exist and reappear in the garbledeegook on the split screen must be eaten (there are no power pellets that live in that region because each pellet is worth only 10 points). There's even a site that will help the beginner get around 3 million points at Neil Chapman's using patterns that are easy to learn.

Nursery rhyme?

There's a meme out there which states Pac-man was originally based on "a devouring monster" in a Japanese nursery rhyme, a creature that "gobbled up evil spirits" while making a "puck-puck" sound. I've yet to find a single instance of the actual rhyme in question, and this may well be one of those "friend of a friend" factoids.

If true, this tidbit definitely warrants posting.

Mr.Do's recent changes

Quite simply, I think the merge was done poorly. The introduction has been terribly bloated. User:Mr.Do! has a history of making substantial changes without prior discussion. My suggestion would be to revert the article entirely and have someone else merge it. --Poiuyt Man ^talk 14:01, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've attempted to fix up the opening paragraphs. I hope it bides well. Captain Yesterday 20:32, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Puck Man versus Pacman

I was the original poster of the Puck Man page. I created the page as there is a significant difference between the style of the artwork and build of cabinet.

The Pac Man article on wikipedia, rightly so, is centered around the American version of the game as licensed by Midway. This American version was more successful and spawned many spinoffs where the original Japanese title was only sold in Japan and some parts of Europe.

Both articles referring to each-other would be a much better idea than simply merging as the Pac Man article is about the game whereas the Puck Man article is centered on design and history of the game.

This was a clear candidate for an article merge: Both were refering to the subject, just in different locations. If you think that any information has been lost by the merge, please add it to the Pac-man article. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 19:29, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

Somebody's changed all the refs to Puck man into capitals. Meanwhile, in the template, it is referred to as Puck-man, which redirects to Puck-Man, whch redirects to itself. Anyone fany tackling the mess? --bodnotbod 09:16, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

I'll take care of the redirects, but I'm going to have to run a Google Test and see whether or not it's PUCK MAN or Puck-Man. --LBMixPro^{(Speak on it!)} 01:26, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Cruise Elroy

I'm really curious about this one. Anyone have any more information? Uttaddmb 14:56, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Do you mean in addition to what is mentioned in the article? — Frecklefoot | Talk 23:51, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

Bizarre '90s multiplayer version of Pacman

I remember back in high school, there was a popular 2d multiplayer game we'd play on the school's computer networks where bizarre Pac-characters (Pacman, Pacaddict, Pacperv, Pacturd, and Paccondom are some of the ones I remember) would chase each other through different, quasi-realistic background screens. The only one I remember is a sewer. Does anyone else remember this? What was it? 68.161.44.106 19:43, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Patterns

Would it be encyclopedic to include diagrams of the patterns to complete each level? There could at least be a mention of them anyway. Richy 15:36, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't think it'd be encyclopedic. Also, it's POV--there are countless ways to solve the levels. It'd be good for a strategy guide Wikibook, however. — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:46, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Pac-Man songs

This is the first time I've posted anything on Wikipedia, and the first time I've done an edit. Though this is being posted before I edit. But I don't think Weird Al Yankovic ever did a song called Pacman. Weird Al has a small part in his FAQ on his website that covers the issue of the rampant fakes among file sharing networks. He notes that every song he's done is on his Catalogue page. I did a quick search, and Pacman is not on there. So I'm fairly confident that Weird Al did not do the song in question, and it's just another fake on a file sharing network. Just for reference, here are the pages I mentioned - Weird Al FAQ Weird Al Catalogue --Brandon Myers 03:57, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for cleaning that up. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:19, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

Well, after taking the song mention out again, I went back to Weird Al's site, and went through the FAQ. He actually did record a song called Pacman. But it was released through a Dr. Demento album release. So it's not on his official song list. I just assumed it was one of those parodies that are on file sharing networks that aren't really by him. So, I added it back. I feel like an idiot now. --Brandon Myers 05:44, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Time to roll and split?

I added the section on Pac-Man Arrangement, which tipped it to 33KB. I'm wondering how to fix that, or if we should leave it alone. Hbdragon88 03:45, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Okay, it's clear there are some problems with flow. For instnace, ports are placed in three sections - under the Leagcy (the most ported game ever), Failed Atari Port, and Ports (with gallery screenshots). If these should be rolled into one, where should they be placed? Hbdragon88 20:58, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

How about a "Ports" section? Most video game articles have one. — Frecklefoot | Talk 23:17, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Namco's Pacman on the Mobile Phone

Apparently, Namco has a mobile phone version of Pacman and Ms. Pac-Man. Is it worth mentioning in the External Links?

I'd say yes. --JiFish(^Talk/_Contrib) 16:52, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Pac Man TV Show

There was a tv show of Pac Man. I watched it when i was a kid. I don't have time for it but someone should add something about that subject.

CornNuts trademark dispute

I remember there was a trademark dispute. I remember the solution was that there could not be pacman snack foods. I don't think the cornnut logo is being used anymore.--Gbleem 17:03, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Merge, I think it's time to merge

The PUCK MAN article has identical information to the one in this article. Previous attempts to merge have only resulted in edit wars. I would like to get some more Wikipedian support before turning PUCK MAN into a redirect. Hbdragon88 07:37, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Also, as far as "Puckman", perhaps that should remain a short article since it is a noticeable difference; with a brief description of the differences of the game (the Japanese names) and why the name was changed. (Also that some hack versions with altered mazes are called "Puckman" as well). But it's true that it shouldn't be such a copy of the Pac-Man article. Eric B 22:11, 29 Dec 2005

Okay, I went ahead and merged it into this article, and fixed all double redirects as necessary. - Hbdragon88 22:24, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Red and orange ghost names swapped in "Arrangement"

Anyone else who has "Pacman Arrangement" notice that these names are switched. This is why I specified "red ghost" and orange ghost" yesterday, and now someone has changed it back to "Blinky" and "clyde" repsectively. I want to make sure that this is the way the game was programmed, and just not some sort of glitch on my copy of it (ncv2.zip, which I run with Mame0100b), before I edit the text with the following:

Urchin/Clyde (the red ghost in this game) takes on the appearance of a Viking

Crybaby/Blinky (the orange ghost in this game) spits out new larger 50 point pills. - Eric B 22:11, 29 Dec 2005

Sorry about that. I have played the Namco Museum version of Pac-Man Arrangement, but I didn't discern that much from it (such as the names, or that the sixth ghost is a power-up ghost). I went through a major copyedit through the entire article, esepcially with that obnoxious TOC header ("Ghosts versus Monsters? And other nomeclature conflicts") and other problems; the name swapping was another change. Now that you've brought it up, I'll desist from editing that part of the article. - Hbdragon88 05:47, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I have the Namco Museum version too, for Mame0100b. Is the one you played Mame, or is it Gameboy, or the other platforms? (Playstation? etc). (Also, there is no 6th ghost in mine; only the regular four, plus the new one). Why is that header I put "obnoxious"? I guess the way you redid it was nice, but I put "Nomenclature conflicts" back, since it sounds better (more "encyclopedic") than "Name Debate", which you seemed unsure of yourself. Eric B 19:08, 30 Dec 2005

Mine is the GameCube version. I suppose I could check up the manual to see what their names are. And I termed the title "obnoxious" because it stretched out the TOC a ridicuous amount. And since there were other debates, I preferred to have the core header first, with the issue(s) listed under separate headers underneath the core header. Hbdragon88 02:14, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Can you edit the Pac-Man seies section? There're some Pac-Man games missing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.100.191.132 (talk) 17:05, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

42 KB!

In just doing a big edit; I at the last minute caught the little notice about page size. (I never realized what the limit of a page was supposed to be). I looked around to see what could be trimmed. Perhaps "Pacman Arrangement", Pacman VS", and "Mario Kart GT" could be reduced to single sentences in the "Successors" section, since those games have their own articles, which are linked. But that might not be enough to free up the needed 11KB. I'm thinking now of just creating a new article called "ghost-monster" and moving the entire "nomenclature conflicts" section (All of which I added in the last month or so) there. Eric B 01:28, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Meh, I'm not too worried about it. As for cutting, I would definitley trim down Pac-Manhattan, either putting it under trivia or slimming it down to a sentence or so, since it also has its own article. - Hbdragon88 04:36, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

What's the fuss about "sources"?

Most of the knowledge here comes from actual game play, or at least memory (but with Mama/Pacmame) even those most obscure hack version does not need memory to be relied on anymore). It's not like some philosophical or scientifc theory or supposed finding that anyone could make up off the top of their head, without any substantiation or evidence. What is some book or link going to tell anyone about the game that actual players can't, or that any reader could not find out by buying or downloading games? I think the games are their own "source" or "reference".