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Editors are encouraged to browse the archive sections ...

  • talk page Archive 1: 1 Wardenclyffe Tower - 2 Inventions - 3 1912 Nobel Prize - 4 Street Gang? - 5 Middle Name? - 6 Past Tense - 7 some rather dubious material... - 8 Croatian, Serbian, American - 9 Birthdate? - 10 Cosmic Waves - 11 Vlach stuff - 12 Tesla msg? -
  • talk page Archive 2: 1 Related articles - 2 The Gush in the first part - 3 The inventor of radio and other disputed facts - 4 Category:Nikola Tesla - 5 Tesla early creator of a F.E.L.? - 6 When is a transducer not a transducer? - 7 Dielectric level? - 8 featured article candidate with unresolved objections - 9 Tesla a Vlach? - 10 relativity , esoterical - 11 9th/10th for birthdate? - 12 ethnicity/nationality mention - 13 Life magazine - 14 hmm - 15 Vandal - 16 Links - 17 Also: Dynamic theory of gravity - 18 Double exposure publicity photo of Tesla - 19 Page bloat - 20 Merge - 21 Forking - 22 Ethnicity? - 23 Tesla is Vlach - 24 Book - 25 Merge/Fork - 26 WMC's POV edits - 27 Duplicate material - 28 Incomplete sentence - 29 Some pictures from the museum - 30 Dead link - 31 Historical revisionism ? - 32 Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Tesla's Tributes and honors - 33 Tesla Power Stations - 34 awards vs societies - 35 "American humor" myth o 35.1 Oddity - 36 Citation Question - 37 Fluid mechanics - 38 rtter - 39 Tesla Unit - 40 Power Plants - 41 Another Tesla Band * 42 Birth? - 43 Patent class and subclass - 44 Wikibooks - 45 Pigeons - 46 Tesla's research on Tai Chi Ch'üan?

TESLA ORIGIN (aka., Ethnicity Again... )

WE CANT CALL TESLA SERBIAN OR CROATAIN AS HIS LAST NAME PRIOVES HE IS NEITHER IN ORIGIN==== TESLA ISNT A SLAVIC LAST NAME======FACT======== HE DOESNT HAVE THE IC AT THE END OF HIS LAST NAME LIKE MOST CROATS AND SERBS DO====== THIS RULES OUT ANY SERB ORIGIN WITHOUT DOUBT==== SIMPLE FACTS ARE HE WAS BORN IN CROATIA TO SERBIAN PARENTS AT THE TIME===THE TESLA LAST NAME ISNT SERBIAN IN ORGIN..IM SURE MOST SERBS LIKE ME WILL AGREE.....HE IS AS SERBIAN AS HE IS CROATIAN OR AMERICAN========== THE TESLA LAST NAME HAS NO ROOTS IN SERBIA======== HIS MATHERS LAST NAME MANDIC COULD BE CROAT OR SERB...RELIGION WAS OFTEN CHANGED TO HUSBANDS SIDE,,,,IN THIS CASE TO ORTHODOX LIKE HER HUSBAND========

My last name does not end in "ic" but I assure you I am Serbian (and also Canadian, and apparently in "Canadian language" there are also last names ending with "ic" - maybe he is Canadian?). You can not reduce the "nationality" of the last name to its ending - which ending one would you say is, for example, American? Maybe English? How about his father's first name, Milutin? Is it Irish? Perhaps Korean? Word "Tesla" has a clear meaning in Serbian language, which is not foreign to having meaningful last names. Last but not least, look at Tesla's choices of who to send his stuff to ... Was it Italy? Romania? Hungary? Croatia? It was Belgrade. Look at who he contacted, his own statements, etc.


This is related to the discussion /Archive 1#Croatian, Serbian, American, /Archive 1#Vlach stuff, /archive 2#Tesla a Vlach, and /archive 2#ethnicity/nationality mention.

Look, being a Yugoslavian person my self, I thought I would clarify the whole "ethnicity/origin" issue. Firstly, Tesla's MOTHER, was actually Serbian (Duka Mandic, Mandic is a Serb name), not his father as some of you say. His father's family was most likely Romanian in origin.

Where is the evidence of this? Nikola
In the Duka bio ... it says she's from the small village of Tomingaj. Where is that in Yugoslavian area? JDR

Anyway, the whole point is that back in the late 1800's/early 1900's, the area we know as the Balkan countries of Croatia, Bosnia, and Serbia and Montenegro, was ALL known as Serbia, as part of the Austro-Hungarian empire (Yugoslavia was founded later in the 1920's).

This is completely untrue. First, the entire area mentioned was never a part of the Austria-Hungary. Second, Serbia was used only to refer to principality of Serbia which acquired independence from Turkey in that time. Most of the area could be referred to as Serbia in 800s perhaps, but not in 1800s. Nikola 13:49, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Even the countries of Bosnia and Croatia and Serbia, had their principle borders and states, the whole geographic region was named "Serbia" around his time. In spite of the fact where you born in Serbia, in the Croatian/Bosnian/Serbian state, you were a "Serb" first and foremost, and then whatever exact region you came from. Even though he was born in Croatia,

Tesla was not born in Croatia. He was born in Austro-Hungarian Military Frontier. Nikola 13:49, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

lived there and like to even call himself "Croatian", the more correct term for someone born in his era, would be a "Serb". Think of it in the case of you American people, you call yourselves Americans firstly, disregarding what state you were born in, I don't think you call yourselves Floridians or Arizonian.

Even when the Yugoslavian nation existed before it broke up in the early 1990's, it was the same deal, people from Yugoslavia mostly referred to themselves as "Yugoslavs", irregardless of the state they were born in (Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Slovenia, Montenegro, etc.).

This is completely untrue. Around 5% of the people have referred to themselves as Yugoslavs in the sense of nationality as late as in 1980s (see Yugoslavs). Nikola 13:49, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It was just a common code of nationality back then, another case would the former U.S.S.R., as people born in Central Asian states of Kazahkstan, Uzbekistan and so on, during that time, would probably refer to themselves as Russians or Soviets or whatever "firstly" and then the state where they came from.

Well written....i think the whole Serb Croat Monte Negrin Bosnian region are one people originally who seperated due to religion and settlement patterns in the Balkans. What is know is that the Croats can trace the history of Croats back to Ukraine/Pland and earlier to Iran, while others cant...leads you to belive what ever the name they are all one people perhaps first calling themselves Croats and then Serbs etc.... Thye are the same eg Petkovic Petrovic Pavlovic Markovic etc.. surnames are found in all areas of fomer Yugo....what does that prove.same poeople or mixed well together like a milkshake I hate when someone sayd Tesla is not Croat.if you are born in Croatia you are Croat...

And just as a final point, there is really very little difference, as it was back in the 1900's too, between the Croatian, Bosnian and Serbian people. While we like to think we're very different from each other nowadays :), the language is universally the same (apart from minor dialects and different word usage in different countries). Even though we have different religions and slightly different traditions, Croatians, Bosnians and Serbs are all primarily Southern Slavs (Slavic People) and pretty much share VERY similar lifestyles, ideologies, language and so on. So it really doesn't matter what you call him as long as its "Serb" or "Croat".

(Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nikola_Tesla/archive_2" by JDR 16:22, 23 September 2005 (UTC))[reply]

I dont know why there is despute over where Tesla is from origianlly. The Tesla last name is from Romania in origin but that was a long time ago...

Noone has ever offered any evidence for this. Nikola 13:49, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Teslas parents and other family lived in Croatia but they did have some roots in Serbia through marriage. To make things worse Nikola Tesla called himself Croatian as he was born there and spoke Croatian, his dad was a Serbian Priest but the family name originated in Romania. 

The whole debate if he is Serbain or Croatian is silly. 
Nikola Tesla is or was Croatian.....FACT
FICTION. Nikola 13:49, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Nikola Teslas parents were Serbs.....FACT 
BUT
The Tesla last name and origin is Romanian......FACT
FICTION. Nikola 13:49, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

HOPE THIS SETTLES THE SILLY MISUNDERSTANDING THAT IS DONE BY WESTERN MEDIA TIME AND TIME AGAIN

[Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nikola_Tesla/archive_2" by JDR ... anon post withing last week (today, 20 September 2005)]

J. P. Morgan

Could someone summerize the facts about J. P. Morgan and Telsa and add it to the J. P. Morgan page? There is nothing about Telsa there. I know that Morgan financed Telsa but I don't really understand why and for which project so I am unable to write about it and I think it would make an important addition to the Morgan page. cda 18:03, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'll post a lil something. JDR

To do this properly would be to write a book. Morgan and Tesla were friends, and Morgan payed Tesla to play in his lab, giving him first dibs on any marketable ideas. Basically, anything after 1900 or 1904 or whenever the two got together would be a project Morgan financed (with the exception of electricity while in Colorado Springs, that he got free from someone else)

Pigeons and Tai Chi Ch'üan

Answers to archive questions.

Simfish, good idea. Tesla, in his later years, was obsessed with pigeons ... this should be mentioned (and his other obsessive compulsive fixations).

Anon, I have not heard that Tesla became specifically fascinated with T'ai Chi. I do know that he became interested in Vedic philosophy (which has many similarities with quantum theory today). He was well read and, later in life, did research various worldviews in developing his inventions. I'll look into it. JDR (PS., NT later became concerned with germs and his health, so this may fit in with that.)

Resolutions to featuring the article

The article was nominated for featuring twice. The first nomination is at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Archived nominations/July 2004#Nikola Tesla and the second at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Nikola Tesla. I will copy-paste here a list of objections to see if we could resolve them. Nikola 14:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

First

The first try:

  • Oppose. The box of Tesla related articles should go at the bottom, in the see also section. Furthermore, the see also section needs to be dramatically trimmed. Perhaps some categorization is in order? Snowspinner 17:06, Jul 9, 2004 (UTC)
    • nope about that box! it is top box or whatever it is called! it is placed in the top of the article. see also is never organized, if we have that much see also's than that is becuase we need to. This was just because of Armstrong.[[User:Avala|Avala★Talk]] 18:08, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
      • Article series boxes are generally to be avoided, and that see also list is excessive. This has nothing to do with Armstrong, and I would appreciate if you stop accusing me of retalliation. I object to your nominations because they have, for the most part, all needed improvement. Snowspinner 19:31, Jul 9, 2004 (UTC)
        • I think we are done with the box, We agreed that see also should be smaller and it is smaller. The box is just overview of the long article.[[User:Avala|Avala|★]] 19:36, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
          • I still think the box is jarring up there, and redundant with Category:Nikola Tesla. This would ordinarily not bother me, but the box is the first thing you see in the article. Snowspinner 19:45, Jul 9, 2004 (UTC)
    • I second the article box objection. I tried shuffling that box and the image around before, and now someone's shifted it back except they've caused a collision. It adds nothing and detracts from the article. I dislike article series boxes in general, but this one is particularly obnoxious and clunky and keeps colliding with the picture. Make it considerably less obtrusive or, better yet, lose it altogether - it's redundant with Category:Nikola Tesla If the box stays gone, I'll be happy - David Gerard 00:23, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The box is completely gone for some time now; so, this is resolved. Nikola 14:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

TOC

  • Object - overwheling TOC. Also fails to follow manual of style re: picture placement. →Raul654 19:43, Jul 9, 2004 (UTC)
    • Objections have been fixed now, although (as the user below says) the see-also section is still too large. →Raul654 08:53, Jul 10, 2004 (UTC)
The TOC is now quite small. Nikola 14:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
See also is now completely gone???? I believe it would be a problem for nomination, so it should be returned in some form. Nikola 14:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Article length

  • Object - 54 KB makes for a rather long read (not to mention page size warning). Not everybody is interested in going through so much detail (esp for the absurdly long 'middle years' section). I suggest summarizing mention of most of his inventions in this article and move the detailed text to Nikola Tesla's inventions to serve as the body text. Then move the prose from Tesla patents to serve as the lead and overview. Finally move the very long annotated list of patents to List of Tesla patents and link it from the inventions article. --mav 09:23, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The article is shorter now, but still 47KB long. This is not resolved. Nikola 14:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't a "real" concern ... as several featured articles are over this limit ... such as Buddhism, Italian Renaissance, The Beatles, etc (this is from a cursory glance; a closer look would find more) ... JDR

Images and Overwikification

  • Object. 1. We need information on certain images, namely: Image:Stesla.jpg, Image:Tesla2.jpg, Image:Serbia100Dinara.jpg, Image:Colorado GeoMag Map.png. 2. Some changes need to be made to the sectional divisions. The "Middle Years" section is rather extensive. Furthermore, the page misuses "quote"—I believe the appropriate word in this context is "quotation." Also, is "Namings" really an appropriate word in this context, or, for that matter, in any context? 3. The navigation box should replace Tesla's image atop the page, and the image sent elsewhere. Navigation boxes belong at the top—they look rather unfortunate in other places. 4. Why is it necessary to indicate in paranthetical format that the Institution of Electrical Engineers is a British body? Similar indications are not made for other bodies. Just the title would suffice. -- Emsworth 02:48, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)
I have resolved problems with most images, however a few still remain, see below. Sectional division is different now, so this probably doesn't apply. Navigation box is gone. IEE no longer marked as British. Nikola 14:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Object. Overwikified (only wikify a term once or twice in an article, not each time), persistently if politely POV, and oddly narrated with numerous gaps in grammar and continuity. The article should cover each theme of his life in a coherent paragraph; a single paragraph should not switch from discussions of his financial state to discussions of the state of a legal battle to a note about where he moved that year and what notes he was taking at that time. Needs deep work by someone who cares about the subject and has time to copyedit the entire text for continuity and flow. +sj+ 22:50, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Not sure about this one. Nikola 14:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I just read the article and completely agree. It is difficult to read because it is overwikified. Tesla greatly contributed to mankind and some of his ideas may yet be developed more. Can't we write what is know of this historical figure without every other word being a link? It gives a guy double vision when common words like "engineer" are linked. Terryeo 10:20, 10 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Overwikified? So is Einstein's article overwikified too? Or mabey Newton's? Can you give an example of how every other word is being a link? I did see copper was a wlnk ... but most are relevant and need a link. Mabey some of the dates can be unwlnked (but that gives an idea of the timeframe of what he was doing; which was usually much earlier than the "norm" of when such activity was established) .... and in most biographies, engineer (and other applicable fields) are wlnked. Sincerely, J. D. Redding 16:42, 13 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

sections and subsections

  • Object. 1) Some sections and subsections are only one paragraph long; these should be merged into longer sections. 2) The quotes section should be removed; the WikiQuote entry suffices. 3) I suspect the "External links" section is too long: Wikipedia is not a link repository and I suspect that many (e.g. the H2G2 entry) are not necessary. — Matt 14:57, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I think there are no more paragraph-long sections. Quotes section removed. External links now shorter. Nikola 14:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Second try

The second try:

Structural things

  • Object. Structural things: Why is there a separate section on his education, wouldn't this be better merged into the relevant parts of his life? The ===h3=== heading in the honors section are over doing it considering the amount of text. External links should probably f ollow after references. Text things: The lead seems quite underdeveloped. --nixie 06:59, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with the first objection: an overview of education is good, while of course it should also be stated in biography. I agree with the second objection. Section order should be easy to change as per manual of style (if there exists a guideline for this). Not sure about the lead. Nikola 14:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

images

BrochureWardenclyffe now has copyright info, while we might perhaps remove the other image. I have seen it once on the net, on a Flickr-like site (or perhaps Flickr itself?), IIRC it is a photo by an amateur photographer, and I am confident that I could get the permission if someone could find it again, as it is quite nice. But until then, we could remove it, or perhaps replace it with Image:Tesla statue at Niagara Falls.jpg, which has a free licence? Nikola 14:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
A copy of it is @ http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/0/0e/Tesla.jpg .... get the permission if you can ... I asked the original uploader about it too. JDR 20:20, 12 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
No, this seems to be copied from Wikipedia. Nikola 10:19, 13 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Yes ... it is a copy ... I was citing it as where it can be found IF a license can be obtained. J. D. Redding 16:43, 13 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]


Anon votes don't count, I think. Nikola 14:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Tesla origins

THIS WOULD MAKE A GREAT SUBSECTION IF A NPOV VERSION COULD BE PUT TOGETHER

Firstly: Tomingaj is a Serbian village in Lika. Secondly: Nikola wasn't born in Croatia, but the Military Frontier. Thirdly: What is this about his "Romanian" origin? HolyRomanEmperor 17:08, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Tomingaj is a Serbian village in Lika. OK thanks ... that could be posted @ the NT talk page ...
  2. Nikola was born in the Military Frontier. I came across this very early. I am, from my various reading, in the postion that NT was a serbian ... I do not state that he was Croatian (though others do). If you thought I was responsible for the post, I am not ... I just pulled it out of the archive (... it was posted by an Anon IIRC)
  3. The Romanian thing (eg., the Vlach thing; or do you mean somthing else?) came from a page on his parents IIRC. It was about his ancestory (but I can't remeber if it was the maternal or paternal side). Sincerely, JDR 17:18, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

But his second name's (Tesla) has origing strictly from the Serbian language: tesla means adze in Serbian. HolyRomanEmperor 21:52, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It was some time ago that I looked into this. Is it (or was it) the practice to pass the last name down the paternal side of the family? If so, then that would be in accord with the Serbian origin of his last name (as his father was a Serbian; as far as I remember). I do not have any problem with stating him as Serbian and he himself stated he was a Serbian (and, more generally a Yugoslavian). Though, IIRC, he did make some references to him having a portion of his heritage from Croatia ... I'll see if I can did up a reference and post it at the NT talk page later. Inaddtion, the Vlachs of Serbia may be relevant to the discussion of his serbian heritage and Vlach references.
ALSO, it may be nice to explicitly address this in the NT article though ... as there is some confusion about it (but may be a contentios issue). JDR 22:18, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Vlach origins were made up by some Croat nationalists who wanted to weaken the Serbian claim on Tesla and establish a Croat one. Croat nationalists have for centuries negated the Serbian nationality of Serbs in the Krajina and even in Bosnia. Fact is Tesla claims he was a Serb, his family claimed it too, he did not even speak Vlach and as far as historical documents go neither did any of his ancestors or neighbours. The closes things to Vlachs you have there are the Cici in Istria a sea and a couple of hundreds of islands away, or the long extinct Dalmatians living in the seaside. Tesla's roots are Slavic and the claim about his alleged Vlach origins come form over-zelous Romanian nationalists who picked up on the Croat myth but cannot substantiate it with any tangible evidence. [anonymous, 17 January 2006]

Then what were you trying to say on the talk page of Nikola Tesla? HolyRomanEmperor 21:55, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I was trying to repost the anonymous editor's comment on the talk page of Nikola Tesla (after I had archived the old talk .... I had moved it there and it was "relatively" new). Again ... this may be a great subsection in NT's article ... and help reduce the confusion around it. JDR 22:18, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Now, I can explain that perfectly. I am a Vlach (Serb). The Serbs of Krajina (Frontier in Serbian) (in present-day Croatia) were called Vlachs. 147.91.8.10 18:28, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The Habsburg Emperors have issued several edicts called Statuta Valachorum, translated as Serbian statute(s) in which the Serbs of the Military Frontier gained more and more power (independently from the Emperor of the Croatian Ban) 147.91.8.10 18:32, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The Habsburgs issued many edicts by the name Statuta Valachorum, translated as Serbian statutes which the Krajina Serbs used to draft more and more power independant from the Emperor or the Croatian Ban. 147.91.8.10 18:35, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Vlach was a name generally used in the Habsburg Empire for Orthodox Christians, and since the only church was the Serbian Orthodox Church, so did many indeed Vlachs assimilate into Serbs but the number was minimal and unimportant, and long ago. 18:37, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

My mother comes from Upper Dalmatia, she is a Vlach (by descendency and tradition), but she is no nationality or ethnicity other than Serb. Do you understand what I am trying to say? 147.91.8.10 18:40, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

[COMPIED FROM MY TALK JDR 20:52, 17 November 2005 (UTC) ][reply]

I'd add that there are ongoing efforts of Croatian propaganda to present Krajina Serbs as "Serbized Vlachs" for obvious reasons, so that spills onto Tesla as well.
Unrelated, the village is likely called Tomin gaj. Nikola 06:28, 21 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
...which in Serbian means Toma's Grove HolyRomanEmperor 14:24, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Several Croatian nationalists have cherished the Serbian migrations in hopes of proving that no one should regret for all the Serbs that were killed or exiled in the Seconds World War (700,000-1,000,000) and in the Yugoslav Civil Wars (700) in Croatia. HolyRomanEmperor 10:39, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

but now they are trying to prove that all those Serbs that came (tens of thousands) were not Serbs, but Vlachs - which is ironic, since Vlachs are a native population of the region and they had no greater migration whatsoever. The largest population of Vlachs lived in Dalmatia, both Catholic and Orthodox - Morlovlachs (a sub-group of Istro-Romainians). They were majorily assimilated into Croats. The last of them live on Istra. HolyRomanEmperor 10:44, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

In short notice, there is no controversial notice on Tesla's ethnicity, only notifications that have arisen as a result of Greater Croatian propaganda (try to make him Croat, if can't, at least make him not Serb) HolyRomanEmperor 12:21, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Final solution => Name: Nikola Tesla; Date of birth: Jully 10 1856; Place of birth: Smiljan (village), Gospić (county), Military Frontier, Habsburg Monarchy/Austrian Empire; Religion: Serbian Orthodox Christian; Ethnicity: Serb; Nationality: Croat, Serb, American; Date of death: January 7 1943; Place of death: New York City, New York (state), United States of America HolyRomanEmperor 12:31, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Final solution => Name: Nikola Tesla; Date of birth: Jully 10 1856; Place of birth: Smiljan (village), Gospić (county), Military Frontier, Habsburg Monarchy/Austrian Empire; Religion: Serbian Orthodox Christian; Ethnicity: Serb; Nationality: Croat, Serb, American; Date of death: January 7 1943; Place of death: New York City, New York (state), United States of America HolyRomanEmperor 12:31, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

we could also add Yugoslav in nationality. I must also point out that my ancestors in the XVII century wereforced to declare themselves Vlachs at times, because the name of the edict was Statuta Valachorum, so the Croatian Ban and the Catholic Church in Croatia and Slavonia forged a master plan - to turn all Serbs into uniates (Orthodox, but for the Pope) and all muslims to convert to Catholics. It wasn't easy being Orthodox and other than Vlach in those times... HolyRomanEmperor 12:36, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

purpose of radio-controlled boat demonstration

The article as it stands reads as follows: "A year later, he demonstrated a radio controlled boat to the US military, believing that the military would want things such as radio controlled torpedoes." This is incorrect. Here is Tesla's own quote, outraged at the suggestion from a reporter that his invention might be used for this purpose: "You do not see there a wireless torpedo, you see there the first of a race of robots, mechanical men which will do the laborious work of the human race."

Um ... in "My Submarine Destroyer - by Nikola Tesla" doc no. 18981113 @ tesla.hu, it plainly states that, "my invention of a submarine torpedo boat that I am confident will be the greatest weapon of the navy from this time on." So, it is coreect. Mabey he changed his mind later, but this was on 1898-11-13. Sincerely, J. D. Redding

Tesla vs Hertz

In "The True Wireless" Tesla explaines that after the publication of Dr. Heinrich Hertz's results investigating Maxwell's electro-magnetic theory (at the time, Tesla was developing a commercial system of power transmission), Tesla constructed several forms of apparatus with the object of exploring the avenues investigated by Dr. Hertz. Tesla removed several limitations of the devices Hertz had employed and concentrated his attention on the production of a powerful induction coil (his "oscillation transformer"). After extensive experimentation and documating the test, Tesla went to Bonn, Germany, in 1892. There he confered with Dr. Hertz in regard to his observations. Hertz seemed disappointed to such a degree that Tesla regretted his trip and parted from him sorrowfully.

Before 1900, two innovations were made. One of these was my individualized system with transmitters emitting a wave-complex and receivers comprising separate tuned elements cooperatively associated. The other a peculiar oscillator enabling the transmission of energy without wires in any quantity that may ever be required for industrial use, to any distance, and with very high economy. In 1900, Tesla constructed a wireless transmitter which enabled Tesla to obtain electro-magnetic activities of many millions of horse-power, he attempted to prove that the disturbances emanating from the oscillator were "aether vibrations" akin to those of light, but was met again with utter failure. For more than eighteen years Tesla was reading treatises, reports of scientific transactions, and articles on "Hertz-wave" telegraphy, to keep informed on the topic, but the information have always imprest upon Tesla like works of fiction. He arrived at the conclusion that "Hertz waves have little to do with the results obtained even at small distances". His experimention with own transmitters plainly shown radiating space waves of considerable frequency. He demonstrated that the different forms of aerials that the signals picked up by the instruments must actually be conducted and induced by earth currents and air currents and were not "aetheric space waves" (as Hertz believed).

Sincerely, J. D. Redding

Why all these problems?

Nikola Tesla was born in Smiljan. Back then it was a Military Frontier ruled by Austrian Empire and present day it is Croatia. He himself said of being proud of being Serbian and of his "Croatian homeland".


Few things to note:


  • Nikola Tesla was not a citizen of Croatia simply because Croatia was just a region at the time. However, he was born in what is presently Croatia. From that perspective it would be more appropriate to say that he was Austrian. He is no more Croatian than, for example Constantine Drageses is Turkish although he was born in what is present-day Istanbul, Turkey. As to this I think we should follow a good practice found elsewhere in Wikipedia - use political geography of the time. "Present day" comments are disconnected with time and may change, like we all witnessed. What already happened does not.
  • By nationality he was Serbian, as he himself said.
  • He, however, was most likely of Yugoslav aspirations and only present political conditions make this an awkward situation.
  • Whatever nationality one considers him, he gained his elementary related education in Austria Politechnic, in Graz, Austria. For scientists it may sometimes be more imporant to mention the school than anything else. However, at this school he was also discouraged to try what he later proved to be some of the greatest innovations of man kind.
  • Some say that he has some Romanian heritage as well.


Inventors can be characterized:

  • by their national/ethnic origin (Serbian)
  • by the country they called 'home' at the time (Yugoslavia)

As for the regions and their names it is possible that we go and list all possible scales, the city, the municipalities, districts and other divisions over the history since he was born but I don't think this is necessary. All the facts above are easily verifiable.

--Aleksandar Šušnjar 19:16, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Image

A later NT image.

File:N Tesla.JPG
N.Tesla

J. D. Redding 03:55, 23 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wikification

Is it just me or does this article seem overly wikified? Dark Nexus 22:27, 23 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

User:Reddi appearently doesn't agree with my suggestion (to the up). HolyRomanEmperor 16:24, 24 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I never said I didn't agree ... just don't have strong feelings on it one way or another and didn't comment .... personally, i'd think that some verison of it should go into the article. J. D. Redding 05:03, 4 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

False Quote

I removed the 'quote' attributed to Nikola about his 'pride'.

As far as I know - it was invented by Bogdan Radica who claimed that Nikola said: 'Iam a Serb, but my homeland is Croatia' (see Margaret Chenney book - Tesla - Man out of Time).

There is no other resource that comes from the people who maintained contacts to Tesla.

Place of birth in the infobox

Why putting "Austrian Empire" in infobox? Yes, Tesla was born in Austrian Empire, I'm not trying to start a flame far on whether the article should say he was born in Croatia, I'm saying that in infoboxes, we put current geographical location. In infobox of George Washington it doesn't say Virginia but Virginia. Moreover, article about Pope Adrian VI says "He was born under very modest circumstances in the city of Utrecht, which at that time was capital of the bishopric of Utrecht and a Low German-speaking part (whose inhabitants considered themselves to be part of the German nation) of the Holy Roman Empire (more specifically, Burgundy), and is now in the Netherlands. His ancestors were from present-day Germany." His infobox says "birthplace=Utrecht, Netherlands".

I don't want to begin an edit war, that's why I ask now, before I edit the infobox: can anyone show me a Wikipedia article about a person which has name of former country in it's infobox? If not, I'll remove reference to Austrian Empire from infobox and adjust the infobox to style of two previously quoted. --Dijxtra 19:00, 4 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There are two reasons that I know of. First, if the information isn't complete, people will either start adding Austria or removing Croatia, or both; it happened numerous times.
That's why I discussed it first. We will reach a consensus here, then if anybody reverts we will point to him that he can discuss the matter further here if he wishes. If it turns out that situation became untolerable, it edit warring continues to wage for weeks, I personally will revert to current situation. --Dijxtra 10:36, 5 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Second, I don't think that Pope example is good. If we follow that route, there are several Roman emperors born in "Serbia" (which will not exist for centuries) and similar things. Nikola 10:25, 5 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And, where's the problem? Can you provide the infobox of emperor born in Serbia which says he was born in Roman Empire? If so, no problem, just link the example here. Problem is that I think this infobox is an exception from established customes, and I would like to see it comply to customes. I don't see how pope example is not good. In fact, I consider it very good as Tesla was a Serb born in present day Croatia, and Pope Adrian VI was a German born in presend day Netherlands. --Dijxtra 10:36, 5 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Look, AFAIK there is no Wikipedia policy about this. Surely, somewhere there is an article with the infobox which lists the place of birth in contemporary country, or even if not it might be there tomorrow. We should decide what is the best for this article. Even if we would find out that large majority of the articles with the infobox have current country in it, we can conclude that that should not be the case here. Nikola 16:00, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't se arguments which make us conclude that that should not be the case here. In fact, I think that we can conclude that this article is no different than any article about person being born in place which was in country X back then and which is now in country Y. I don't see why Nikola Tesla is so different from Washington or the Pope. Can you deliver some arguments why this article has to be deviation from wikipedia customs? --Dijxtra 16:55, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Because for the other articles, there are few click-happy individuals which wish to POV the fact one way or another? And, it has not shown that this is deviation from Wikipedia customs. Nikola 18:28, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What do click-happy individuals got to do with being accurate? Are you suggesting that Wikipedia should conform to them? And, yes, I have shown it is wikipedia custom, and asked if somebody has an counter-example. Haven't seen any. --Dijxtra 18:45, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
But it is accurate as-is. And, you only showed a few articles, but there are a lot of articles with the infobox. It's very hard to find out if this is really a custom. Nikola 08:55, 9 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Term "present day" is very relative geographically speaking - things change and encyclopedias should stay (what was true truth never stops being one; only lies and half-truths change).
Pick up 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica from 1909. Why does it speak of Austro-Hungarian Empire as it still exists if we know that's not true? Moreover, condider this: [1]. Wikipedia changed the moment Karol Wojtyla died. Therefore, this encyclopedia adapts to current information. --Dijxtra 00:13, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You are talking about current events. Tesla was born in one point of time and that can not change. In the article we state that "Tesla is born in ... which is now in Croatia"; if that place in future is no longer in Croatia, we of course should state that "Tesla is born in ... which is now in Wherever". But that the place was in Krajina back then is unchangeable fact. Nikola 16:00, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Of course it is. And the article says it is, and that's not going to change. But, tell me, if you ask a person born in Belgrade in 1960 to tell you where he was born, would he say "Belgrade, SFRY", or "Belgrade, Serbia and Montenegro"? If you ask peson born in 1960 in Volgograd the same question, would he say "Stalingrad, USSR" or "Volgograd, Russia"? Geographical places are current events. If you are locating a place, you will request it's current name. Tesla was born in one point of time, and in that point of time that place was in Military Frontier. But, if you sit in a car and head to Tesla's birth place, you won't look for Austrian Empire on the map. That's why the Pope and Washington have names of currently existing places in their infoboxes. That's why Tesla should have it too. --Dijxtra 16:55, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Different people will answer differently to that question. Nikola 18:28, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Sophism won't look good on your record... we very well know that people who use non-existent countries in stating geographical sites are in vast minority :-) --Dijxtra 18:45, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I hope I don't have a record. But, this isn't sophism. Of people who are born, say, 20 years ago in Belgrade, some will say that they are born in Serbia, some in Yugoslavia. Probably very few will say that they are born in Serbia and Montenegro when I think about it. Nikola 08:55, 9 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
For example, it may become one day "present day European Union" or something else, and I don't think we're supposed to put the names of lesser regions in there.
1) Croatia is not a lesser region of EU yet. 2) The Netherlands is lesser region of EU, Adrian VI has "The Netherlands" as birth place in his infobox. Wikipedia uses currently existing countries in infoboxes. I'm asking you to prove me wrong, not to change Wikipedia policy... --Dijxtra 00:13, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Was Tesla "American", "New Yorker", or, maybe "Illinoian".--Aleksandar Šušnjar 19:10, 5 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
For the sake of keeping this discussion up to the point, please reread my first post (preferably the bold parts, they are in bold because they are extra important) and what I'm planing to do. I'm not planing to change his nationalty from Serbian to something else because that's silly. I'm proposting a change in his infobox to confrom it to WP standards. Now, let me ask again, has anybody a counterexample? --Dijxtra 00:13, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Easy. Have a look at Constantine XI, for example and try to find either Istanbul or Turkey in it.--Aleksandar Šušnjar 04:43, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As I said previously, I beg you to reread what I'm talking about. I'm talking about... how should I put it... infobox. Get it? And does article about Constantine XI have a infobox? No, it does not. --Dijxtra 09:55, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Information in Wikipedia is supposed to be encyclopedic, regardless of how it is formatted - and infobox is nothing more than a differently presented summary, so don't try to propose that it should follow different rules.
I'm not proposing the change in the rules. You are. This article does not follow the established custom. I'm asking to change this article to follow the rules. --Dijxtra 16:55, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
On top of that, Wikipedia has an aspect that no other encyclopedia has on this planet - sheer volume and, likely, longevity, which requires specific approaches to writing style. For example, writing an article that "presently the fastest Intel CPU is such-and-such" is extremely limited time. Absolutely nothing is different in this case. --199.71.120.67 15:31, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Then go and fix the articles which use current geographical places to their historical names. And, while you are at it, go and fix George W. Bush article. It says "George Walker Bush (born July 6, 1946) is the 43rd and current President of the United States.". That will be a terrible lie in few years. So, why not fixing it to be encyclopedic?--Dijxtra 16:55, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have time to fix all the (future) errors. Someone else might, but that is the whole point. And, so far, I did not propose ANY change. But now I will... Let's expand Wikipedia's system to be able to handle geographic coordinates. That way we can link to geographic databases, GPS, satellite pictures and... maybe most importantly... avoid conversations like this. "Present day XXX" could be automatically handled - seems good for all involved. --Aleksandar Šušnjar 19:45, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to propose that at WP:HD, this is not the place for this discussion :-) Here we discuss why Nikola Tesla article does not conform to established customs... --Dijxtra 21:02, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Then there is nothing to discuss, as it does violate any standards. --Aleksandar Šušnjar 23:53, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Good. I hope you understand what you just wrote :-) --Dijxtra 00:00, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I most absolutely do! You want to impose something you may wish to be the standard, although it is not. If you want to discuss standards, then this is not the place for it either. --Aleksandar Šušnjar 05:36, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ahem... "it does violate any standards". That's what you wrote. OK, if it violates standards, then I have your blessing to change the infobox. Nice. I'll do that right away. --Dijxtra 11:20, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oops... true... I omitted "not" (as can be seen from the sentence that does not make sense by itself). But the change you made is entirely incorrect and away even from the "standard" you were proposing here. Tesla was not born in Croatia but Austrian Empire, just what presently is Croatia, as the article already stated. --Aleksandar Šušnjar 14:41, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion in becoming a bit to tabbed, so I'll decrease number of tabs... Your sentence "Tesla was not born in Croatia but Austrian Empire, just what presently is Croatia, as the article already stated." implies that you did not quite understand my previous elaboration of purpose of infobox or that you understood but are refusing to acknowledge that Austrian Empire does not exist any more (as the article correctly states). In both cases I do not see how the two of us can came to reasonable agreement, so I will abandon this article now and do some usefull work instead. Cheerz, Dijxtra 15:10, 8 January 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Nikola Tesla was YUGOSLAVIAN!

'

--69.199.95.31 23:55, 10 January 2006 (UTC)'Nikola Tesla was not croatian! My father went to a high school named after him called "Nikola Tesla." This high school is located in Belgrade! During the time that he lived: Serbia and Croatia were becoming one country: YUGOSLAVIA! Therefore Nikola Tesla was Yugoslavian.[reply]

In the wikipedia article, it said "Nikola Tesla was of Serbian descent and a citizen of the former Austro-Hungarian Empire, after 1918, Yugoslavia and nowdays Croatia." The "Croatia" part is incorrect because today, what is left of former Yugoslavia is called "Serbia and Montenegro." 'Serbia and Montengro' has the same flag as former Yugoslavia had, different from the lone serbian flag. The flag of former Yugoslavia is blue, white, and red. The Serbian and Montenegrian flag is blue, white, red. The Serbian flag (Serbia on its own) is red, blue, and white. The croatian flag is red, blue, and white with a symbol on it. Therefore former Yugoslavia, today, is Serbia and Montenegro. NIKOLA TESLA WAS YUGOSLAVIAN!

-Mina (tri prsta!)'''''''

Date of 'Death Ray' reporting

Based on this PBS article: http://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_wendwar.html, there was no report to the media of Tesla's death ray and the article implies that he didn't 'market' his invention to various nations until that time, so the date should be changed from the 20's to the 30's. Of course, there might have been rumors swirling around an earlier prototype, in which case this should read 'it was rumored that' rather than 'reportedly'.

Also interesting to add from the article: his belief that his 'death ray' weapon would 'end all wars'

Tesla's fame

I replaced "Tesla's fame rivaled that of any other inventor or scientist" for "Tesla's fame exceeded that of any other inventor or scientist." It is surely false that Tesla was more famous among inventors than Edison or more famous than Einstein among scientists.

I agree, but I think you misread or rather misinterpreted the sentence. I'm fairly certain it meant to say that at ONE point, Tesla's fame exceeded all others, but that he later died forgotten. It did not state that he was the most famous of all.

Also, just out of curiousity. How is stating the following: "After his demonstration of wireless communication in 1893 and after being the victor in the "War of Currents", he was widely respected as America's greatest electrical engineer. " puffing up Tesla into a superhero? These are more facts than praise.

Who owns Tesla's patents today? I think I read somewhere that his wife sold his patents to GE, his enemy, to make ends meet. Or this could be a different inventor I'm thinking about. I'm not sure.


Much better version

Much better version Aleksandar! The old maps will also show you that Croatia formed part of the Austian-Hungarian Empire and if we want to be correct, so that people will know where he was really born, this should be mentioned (yugoslavia was created much later and is now already history - how time goes by swiftly...). Anyway it's Nikola Tesla year in both countries - Serbia as well as Croatia. Nothing mentioned about that so far...  ;) --Neoneo13 21:57, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well... Maps actually don't show that - they show banovinas that were formed later. That article also needs improvment and better NPOV, but that does not concern this article. As to knowing when and where he was born - that information already existed in the article and actually did not need to be duplicated, but if that'll keep you happy - its fine.
There are things, though, that puzzle me. Why the Croatian interest in Nikola Tesla? By all means if he lived there at very slightly wrong time he'd experience some pretty horrible things, wouldn't he (e.g. ethnic persecutions of NDH and Jasenovac concentration camp, not to mention recent events)? Pardon me, but all that Croatian behavour is actually funny and sad at the same time.
As for place of Yugoslavia in the article... There actually needs to be more of it and we should work on that. Tesla decided that Yugoslavia should get his plans, not any other country. That counts a lot as to his opinions and I don't really see it mentioned.
Finally, I am still of the opinion that "present day" stuff should be treated better and automatically. In some ways, it already is. Smiljan article says where the city is, no need to spam it all over the place. I would go even further and put longitudes and latitudes, but that'll have to wait.
--Aleksandar Šušnjar 22:20, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, borders continuously changed, but Croatia always existed as a constituent part of the Hungarian monarchy. No doubt about that. Just have a look at the Hungarian coat of arms - the Croatian is on it too... On concentration camps: He did not live in Croatia at this time - thank god. Anyway, I think this only reinforced his anger about this cruel regime and everything what was happening over there in Europe. There were many scientists who sadly followed the news from Europe - and it was terrible, I admit. However, this does not mean that all Croats can be seen as one single entity. Not all Croats were in favor of killings and murders. They also did not have the chance to express their opinion. There were lots of different opinions, but it is another matter of the studies of history to reflect what happened in the past, not only in Croatia, but also in Germany and elsewhere... Mentioning Yugoslavia within the article: You could mention that Tesla was fond of the idea of a Yugoslavian state. However, he could not live up to this day to see what happened with this state and how things got out of control. And I think he would not have been a good politician, neither did he wanted to be one. I think Tesla always believed in fair treatment of people, irrespective of their ethnicity - and THAT is something that we all should admire. Why should not the Croatian Republic honor the ideals and wonderful things this man invented? He originated from this place on earth - today known as Croatia. He was a forethinker of his age, however, he did not live long enough to see his ideas realized, and still many of his inventions remain unrealized... I think Croats as well as Serbs can be proud of this man - it is at least, something that unifies both people, and therefore I believe it is fair enough to mention present-day places. Or do you still remember the exact position of some ancient Roman cities? I not really sure. Greetings! --Neoneo13 23:16, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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