Talk:Cactus
Mentioned are "varieties" of cacti. In fact they are both species and genuses. Opuntia being a genus. When you explain what cacti are, you can give examples of cacti and use vernacular names. When you look at the info from a "technical" point of view, words like variety should be used with care as they have a meaning within the nomenclature. Acanthocalycium klimpelianum var. macranthum is alphabetically the first variety that I am aware of :).
As to methods of preventing evaporation, there are many methods to prevent evaporation employed by cacti. That might be a special subject within the wikipedia? Among them a thick skin few "huidmondjes" stomatals??, retaining water in bulbous stems, reflecting sunlight, being able to absorb dew etc. This should then lead to a new term xerophytes plants that are adapted to drought. These includes succulents and bulbous plants and and..
This should be moved over to Cactaceae for consistency with all other angiosperm families, unless there is a reason to have both Cactus and Cactaceae? Merging Cactaceae into here was probably a mistake; should have gone the other way. I do not buy the arguement that the common name should prevail—that causes difficulty in most other families of plants. Even within this group, many people regularly confuse the terms "cactus" and "succulent", thinking anything succulent with spines is a type of cactus; there are numerous examples of these kinds of false cacti in the Euphorbiaceae - Marshman 20:28, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I don't buy the argument that consistency should prevail. In that case, we shouldn't restrict our attention to consistency within divisions and phyla, and so should never use common names. Whether or not the scientific name is more appropriate should be decided on a case by case basis - but I don't know whether it should in this case or not. Josh
- I think consistency is more significant than the rule that common names should prevail (IMHO); but case by case is essentially what we have. It is a fact that while broadly used common names usually coincide with a taxonomic group, there exist (because they are common names) lots of exceptions. In this case, I think Cactaceae is more appropriate because of those exceptions. On the other hand, cacti are one of those plant groups with lots of non-botanist collectors and afficianados. They may want a "cactus" article. Should there be two Cactus and Cactaceae? How purist are the "cactus" people? The orchids are under Orchidaceae (got my vote) although I'm not aware of too many non-Orchidaceae orchids (there are a number of non-Orchidacea flowers howeever, like the orchid tree (Fabaceae). Cactus people tend to be more cactus&succulant people, rather than just Cactaceae people.
- In the end, it does not matter all that much, since between redirercts and searches, no one is really put out that much by names that are not just what THEY or I expected or want. I would propose a Cactus and succulants and a Cactaceae to cover different aspects of the subject - Marshman 03:10, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- There is already an overarching article in Xerophyte that covers what you propose.
- You assume that latin names are stable and, in the case of the cactus family you may be right however, when you add a Cactaceae you need a Cactus with a redirect as that is what the users type in for a key word. So what is the point, being "correct"? There is no confusion that is solved. GerardM 06:47, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- My point is partly just for consistency with other angiosperm families. Typing cactus certainly could redirect to Cactaceae or it could go to a disambig. page that gives the reader a choice based on what he perceives "cactus" to mean. With Orchidaceae, "orchid" right now goes just there, with Poaceae, "grass" goes instead to a disambig. page because there are many alternative meanings for "grass" and Poaceae is just one. You need the redirects in any case, so that is not an issue. - Marshman 17:28, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Perhaps it's just that people in Las Vegas are connoisseurs :-), but I don't recall anyone calling a non-Cactaceae a "cactus". The general term of choice is "nasty spiky thing" which nicely covers agaves and yuccas and the rest of our things you don't want to bump into. :-) In general, there seem to be a number of families that line up well with common names, and for those the common name makes sense, and others that really need the Latin, such as Agavaceae. Stan 17:20, 20 May 2004 (UTC)