Talk:Reality

For older talk, see Talk:Reality/Archive 1

OK, Fred, we've gotten off on the wrong foot, and I think that's mainly my fault.

Here's what I propose: I'm going to explain, again, much more nicely, the objections I have with your article. Then perhaps we can have a discussion about particular points of disagreement, and arrive at a consensus about what to do with the page.

I really would like to put an end to the unpleasant back-and-forth and actually work on this. I hope you will take my criticisms seriously, and I'll try to understand your replies seriously. --Larry Sanger

The indented bits are from the original (edited) article; the flush left bits are from Larry Sanger.

Reality is:

You begin with a list, as if there are several agreed-upon meanings. I think this is mistaken on two counts: first, we need to give some sort of general characterization or discussion of the meaning of "reality" in general. And second, the actual senses supplied are by no means regarded by everyone as legitimate senses of "reality."

1. All that has been; is; or can be. The ultimate nature of things. All Noumena.

"All Noumena" is highly misleading and inappropriate right here, if you're trying to give a general account of "reality." "Noumena" is a technical term of Kant's, and is not largely in general use except in talking about Kant or Kantianism. If what you mean is something like "objective reality," the word you're looking for is "objective reality," definitely not "noumena."

2. All phenomena which may directly or indirectly observed. See science knowledge and phenomenon

3. The nature of things as established by authority or social norms. The world view internalized from one's parents and peers. One's reality includes one's culture, social status and sense of what is right and wrong.

Reality in sense No. 3 is socially constructed. An individual does not sui generis internalize the external world from experience and analysis but in large part absorbs from others the social constructs which make up a culture. One's sense of what is "real" may at times differ from what acually is which is sure to make life interesting. In some mental states such as psychosis or delirium, the subject's perception of the world may be strikingly at odds with the social consensus. In some surrealist, idealist and other theoretical writing this is called "consensus reality".

The physiological creation of reality

It is arguable that none of us directly perceives reality (even if a single physical reality can be demonstrated to exist). (Direct realism, however, questions this assertion.) The following account represents the current beliefs of cognitive scientists.

The brain receives information from a variety of channels, all of which are more limited that they appear, as is demonstrated by the existence of optical and other sensory illusions. Standard models of human perception estimate our information-processing capacity for the external world at a few hundred bits per second of conscious information.

Vision: an example of the creation of reality

In spite of this, we live with an illusion of a hi-fi 360-degree full-colour full-motion sharp-focus external visual reality (that would take several gigabits per second to represent) that is assembled from a series of gazes and fixations of a very limited foveal visual field, combined with blurry low-resolution surrounding vision and peripheral motion-detection.

The rest, as many experiments in human vision have shown, is supplied by the imagination. Indeed, it is reasonable to describe the whole human visual field as a hallucination -- albeit an active hallucination that is kept up-to-date and consistent with reality wherever information is available. When this checking mechanism fails, the phenomenon of unreal hallucinations is generated by the same mechanism that generates the "real" ones as optical illusions.

Illusionists manipulate these mechanisms to generate their illusions, by generating misleading and distracting stimuli designed to spoof the visual and perceptual systems into generating the impression of unreal events.

The social construction of reality

All cultures admit of alternate realities, some quite esoteric

Listening to the disputes of groups with widely separated points of view, it is clear that they actually have different points of view about what is self-evident -- that is, "real". Often, they reveal their biases by describing their viewpoint as the "real world" or their views as those of "real people" or "ordinary people", showing that they consider the beliefs of their opponents to be disordered and unreal.

Some commonplace examples are Israeli reality versus Palestinian reality; Democratic Party reality versus Republican Party reality; and male reality versus female reality. Surrealist beliefs about the nature of reality are radically different from those of most people. There are also semi-real virtual realities such as within a MUD.

more is needed on this topic, including the social dimensions of acceptable behavior and manifestations of

 mental illness

Psychoactive drugs and the perception of reality

stuff to go here on the effect of psychoactive drugs on perception of reality

Reality, sanity, and mental illness

to be written

Religious views of reality

Platonic forms and the philosophy of reality

we need a bit here about Plato, Platonic realism / Platonism, Platonic forms and [[mathematical

 realism]]

Reality and quantum physics

stuff to be written on the Copenhagen interpretation and Everett many-worlds interpretations of quantum physics, including the concept of the Multiverse

Reality in fiction

stuff to be written on Philip K. Dick, Jorge Luis Borges and other authors whose work involves themes of reality and perception