Talk:Warmia
Why, o why there is extraneus info about Copernic which should be in his own entry, there is info about eastern Prussia, and there is no info that Warmia was under Polish rule from 1466 to 17something? szopen
To szopen Warmia or Ermland in Prussia was an exempt bishopric. It was not under Polish rule. It was during that time a seperate state, ruled by the bishop as secular ruler, with highest authority the emperor and the pope. And Copernicus lived most of his life in Ermland and died in Ermland.
It was under Polish rule. Bishops were appointed by Polish kings, like lsat of them, Krasicki. This was confirmed after Tungen affair and so called bishops war (after 13 years war).
BTw, user:H.J., could you please check Thirteen Years' War and add German equivalents of names and maybe change name of German commanders, places and rulers into proper names. I guessed how it would sound in English but i wasn't sure. szopen
To person, who did not leave name and to space-cadet
Removed to talk, see note below:
"The end of Second World War saw the killing of many polish settlers (deported from Polish lands overtaken by Soviet Union) from the hands of the Wehrwolf - military German organization oriented at fighting and killing Polish civilians, largely supported by original German population, especially clergy, which resulted in expulsion of a large number of the East Prussian population, by Polish and Soviet troops. Wehrwolf was active in every region of the Polish "Recovered Lands", earning for itself a very bad fame, by never attacking any military targets."
The only reference to Wehrwolf I found, states: Wehrwolf was the name given to a band of German youths at the end of WW II, who fought as gorillas against Soviet and allied forces in Germany. What you are hinting at, were Polish and other Communist partisans, who accompanied the Soviet Union troops , which overran G e r m a n y and turned it into Poland (what the Polish refer to as 'Recovered Lands", but in actuality it was put under Polish administration) and Soviet Union.
These Polish partisans, many by horse , came in civilian clothes and were an attachment of the Soviet Union Military Army. There were many communists from other countries trained in Moscow already many years before WW II in order to take over as well, (ref Walter Ulbricht). One of them was the Polish NKWD communist ruler Bolesław Bierut. Read his recently translated archive files and read who killed whom in the take-over of the "Recovered Lands", which was really Germany under Polish administration, and the take-over of Poland and of Hungary and of Tchechoslowakia etc. Then read the book by John Sack about who put the German people in camps in Silesia and read Alfred de Zaya's books etc.
The group of individual young people, who were dubbed 'Wehrwolfs' were unarmed civilian youth 15 or younger, who defended their homeland, because there were no men left.
Wehrwolf was recruited mainly from Waffen SS soldiers who escaped imprisonment, or were left behind the front line in hiding and yes, also from Hitler Youth activists, very well armed and ruthless in their pursuit of defenseless polish settlers forced out of their homes in todays Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine. Because of the support Wehrwolf was getting from the german population of those lands, especially clergy, it was decided to resettle all that population in germany in it's new borders. Was it right, legal or fair? It was perhaps a little more humanitarian, then lock them in ghetto's, send them to concentration camps, kill them publicly in hudreds for each killed Pole, call them "under - people" and use for slave labor.
"Who really killed whom" you say, and then you give me reading material... Well, you probably never read "Mein Kampf", if you trying to blame the Poles for all the evil resulted from WW II. And check that article history - it was JHK who put that stuff back. And finally I didn't sign my name because I was logged in.
TT
To Tirid Tirid:
Nice response, but probably not very politically correct, for the standards of this encyclopedia. See, here you can call people "Commies", accuse them of being brainwashed by Soviet propaganda and everything is OK, they are all legitimate arguments. Once, however, you make a reference to "Mein Kampf", or start bringing back the facts about Nazi terror in Poland, you automatically cross the line, your comment becomes a proof of you being a subject of "Godin's Law" and you become a black sheep of this encyclopedia.
SC
whatever
TT
What the hell does the paragraph beginning "the last paragaph, alludes to..." mean? First, there should be no comma. Second, the preceding paragraph talks about a GERMAN paramilitary group killing Poles, while this paragraph, which purports to explain further, talks about the killing of ethnic Germans by Soviet-backed Poles. Since these are CLEARLY different things, why is this written in a way that can only confuse the issues? JHK, Monday, July 15, 2002
to JHK The person, that added the Wehrwolf sentences brought no date, places names whatsoever. I wrote that there is no info (other than the youth group I quoted) and took it out. It was inserted again and therefore I added information available, which is about the large number of Ukraine civilians killed by Soviet Poles. The Poles call them 'terrorists and Bander...' and want to discredit them by name caling, the same situation is created by someone coming up with 'Wehrwolf getting German support', thereby trying to justify ethnic cleansing (expulsion of original inhabitants from their homelands). These happenenings are clearly interconnected. While they had been started before the end of the war, they continued and really got going, because of the Potsdam Agreement. I will take it out again unless I get some concrete info. user:H.J. Wed July 17, 2002
And I just put it back. Frankly, I am getting a little disgusted by these attempts to whitewash German atrocities in Poland during World War II, the Nazi belief that Poles were untermenschen fit for slave labor only (not to mention what they thought of the Jews), murders, killings, reprisals, ethnic cleansing, the movement of German populations into Polish lands, the deportation of Poles and Jews from their homes, concentration camps, death camps, etc. I am more than a little perturbed at these claims that the real victims were the local Germans. It is the same kind of rhetoric that led to the invasion of Poland in 1939. 6 million Polish citizens died in World War II (4 million ethnic Poles and 2 million Jews). They did not all die as a result of communism, Stalinism, or whatnot. In fact, Hitler had his little pact with Stalin, until he broke it. Germany invaded, Germany lost, Germany was punished. Yes, innocent people suffered. That is the tragedy of war, and the crime of political figures, who lead their people into war. And it is the crime of the people themselves, who elected these leaders. Wehrwolf was not just a bunch of kids playing with cap guns. It was a paramilitary group, including the Hitler Youth and demobilized soldiers and SS. Enough already! You cannot rewrite history. [[user:Danny|Danny]----------------------------- To Danny et al
1.You are mixing up wartime happenings during the war with the planned and authorized (by the allies) expulsions of people from eastern Germany and from Ukraine.
2.How many of population counted as 'Poles' and 'Jews' killed, were actually Germans or ethnic Germans from the German Reich territory of 1918 (or from earlier Holy Roman Empire lands), when a part of the land was 'given' to Poland ref Polish Corridor ? Why, do you think, the majority of European people of Jewish religion spoke jiddish ( a German language) ?
3.You might also want to find out how many of the (ethnic) Germans had been killed before WW II by Poland sending (ethnic) Germans living in the strip of the 'Polish Corridor' on death marshes.
4.These Germans, who became 'ethnic Germans', when that part of the German Reich was 'given' to Poland and were still considered 'ethnic Germans' when it was time for Communist Poland under Bierut for the expulsions in order to take over even more of the German Reich after 1945. Yet by Poland these same 'ethnic Germans' are counted as 'Polish citizens killed', because they happened to live in the part of German Reich land 'given' to Poland at the Versailles Treaty.
To your other points, a.Hitler did not invade Poland, he send troops to the Free city of Danzig. b.Hitler was not elected, he manovered his way in, with the backing of powerful financiers of the world (which strangely is same story with every dictator of the world). Due to the Reichstag having been burned down, dictator Hitler decreed emergency statute and thereby took over completely. The Social Democratic and Prussian Government under Otto Braun was already been put out of office in Berlin and the Soc. Dem party outlawed.
(This brings to mind a strange twist , NY and pentagon have been burned and the emergency war act has taken every right of personal freedom, the Nazi informant and the Communist Stasi is re-incarnated by the call for millions of neighborhood informers. The people did not vote for any of this either.)
We have just read in this wiki, that it was legal for the participants of the Potsdam Conference to order millions of people killed by the Soviet Union and Soviet Polish government in the 'resettlements' of Germans and ethnic Germans on one side and Ukrainians (also counted as Polish citizens killed, because they also lived on land conquered by Poland after WW I) on the other side.
Think about it ! user:H.J.
This is just too warped to even consider seriously. It is not even revisionism; it is either blatant misreperesentation of history or pure stupidity. The Jews (and Poles) killed in Poland were really Germans? Germany did not inititate a blitzkreig against on Sept 1, 1939? This is truly frightening. Danny
Yes Danny just keep sticking your head in the sand, to make sure that many more Balkan ethnic cleansings will follow , and who knows, some day some group will come to you, where-ever you live, and that group will decide, that it is time for you to be 'resettled' (or as it was called in earlier times 'Removal' as in Indian Removal. user:H.J.
Sorry, user:H.J., but it already happened. It was the German invaders of Poland that killed my family. Danny
Danny I am sorry for that and sorry for you too. Perhaps you and I can both see to it that events are truthfully reported. Hopefully then people cannot be manipulated to make war , or at least have the possibility to stop those who wish to make and profit from wars. user:H.J.
Removed the Widewuto bit because this is all legendary -- there really is no proof, which we've discussed before. I left the NPOV stuff, because I just don't want to deal with it and I know others will. The fact is that atrocities were carried out on both sides, as is often the case when boundaries shift and people are forcibly resettled. Both Poles and Germans were guilty of these atrocities, just like both Polish and German Jews were murdered. Nobody can get away from the fact that some ethnic Germans lived in the area quite peacefully before the war, but others came in with the Nazi regime at the expense of Poles. Nobody can claim the moral high ground here, so maybe it would be best to reflect reality?JHK
To user:H.J.
I thought we had an understanding about accusing somebody of being a subject of communist propaganda, in lack of other arguments. I'm not a Communist, I'm not brainwashed, and I'm sick and tired of you constantly using that line on me. Like Danny told you: dont rewrite history! Accept it and live with it!
SC
user:H.J., this is getting to be offensive already. Please, please, please, find out what NPOV is, find out what historical accuracy is, find out what relevant means, then ask yourself if your additions meet all those criteria. If you want to promote your skewed view of history, do it on your own webpage, not here. Danny
What Danny said. And I'm also trying to get some order and grammar into this, which isn't helped when people revert all my changes, including simple ones like organizing the list of Latin and German alternative names at the top into some kind of coherent order.
This is an English-language encyclopedia. That means English grammar matters, and that we are presenting facts, not propaganda. Vicki Rosenzweig 08:56 Aug 4, 2002 (PDT)
to Vicki, on your message, I had taken all my translations of Kersten's words out. I had stated Copernicus' own words, is that propaganda ? Matter of fact I need to restate them in the debate about the nationality, where someone asks for it.
My words alone (minus my translations of Kersten's) were vandalized several times by Danny. It is a shame that wikipedia is vandalized like that. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know.user:H.J.
went back to an older version and aded in some of user:H.J.'s stuff, but rewrote to make NPOV. I am not positive, but I believe the correct spelling of the paramilitariy groups is Wehrwolf -- a play on words from Wehrmacht, or army, and wolf. also added a question -- who ruled here before the Teutonic knights? JHK 14:23 Aug 4, 2002 (PDT)
Removed because it says nothing about Warmia (it should be in Prussia article otherwise):
In 1525 the larger part of Prussia became a Protestant state. The central part, Ermland, and the western part of Prussia remained under Catholic rule for some time.
In 1772, the western Prussian regions were annexed by the Kingdom of Prussia at the time of the first [[Partitions of Poland|Partition of Poland] under Frederick the Great, who named the eastern part of Prussia, East Prussia and the western part Westprussia. East Prussia, now a province of the State of Prussia, led the unification of Germany in 1871.
The last statement is a very odd. There were no Polish nationals living in Ermland. What we do know ist this. The Ermland Bishop Maximilian Kaller had been detained from his office by Nazi SS in 1945. Bishop Kaller then managed to return to his diocese. He was kept from continuing his duties and was expelled by Polish Primas Kardinal August Hlond. Ermland Bishop Kaller, together with his countrymen, was expelled, deported and the land overtaken by Soviet Union and Soviet Poland. Maximilian Kaller made it as a refuge to the rest of Germany, occupied by western allies. In 1946 Bishop Kaller received 'Special Authority as Bishop for the Deported Germans' from Pope Pius XII. Bishop Kaller suddenly died in Frankfurt am Main in 1947.
- I'm sorry, HJ -- I have to agree.
- One, how do we know that there were no Polish nationals in Ermland/Warmia -- and if there weren't, why not? This supports the assertion that the Germans expelled Poles from their homes during the war.
- Two, As written, it looks like Kaller was detained by the SS and released -- why?
- What does his detention by the SS have to do with Hlond? As written, it looks like the two things are connected, yet it also seems to say that Hlond was acting with the Soviets
- Was Hlond acting only on authority granted by the Soviet government? What about thwe pope? Did he object?
- HJ, please clarify by answering the questions directly, and not by throwing up a bunch of disconnected information. Thanks. JHK
To Zoe, that odd statement and the info is for JHK. It is alright for you to take the odd out I am referreing to your condensing it to read: The Ermland Bishop Maximilian Kaller had been forced from his office by the Nazi SS in February 1945. Bishop Kaller was expelled and deported to West Germany. In 1946 he received 'Special Authority as Bishop for the Deported Germans' from Pope Pius XII. He died in Frankfurt am Main in 1947. You have changed the content by this condensation. This is what I have to put back in. Please leave it for JHK, as she requested. Thanks.
The other part with all the changing (Frauenburg etc. You are absolutely right. A group of us have worked long and hard on all these facts and I brought many proofs to get it stated the way it was.
I will just stay off this for now.
This was in the middle of all the post-1945 stuff -- didn't make sense there.
Poland agitated to get this part of Prussia annexed to Poland. The League of Nations held elections in West and East Prussia on July 11, 1920 in order to find out if the people wanted to remain with Prussia in Germany or to become Polish. The results of the 1920 elections in West Prussia were 92,42% for Germany, 7,58% for Poland. The results for East Prussia were 97,86% for Germany and 2,14% for Poland. Poland nevertheless received German land, then called the Polish Corridor.
About the removed pragraph:
First of all - There was never a plebiscite in "West Prussia". Second - people voted between Poland and Prussia(Pussia as a separate Kingdom), not Poland and Germany. Third - during the plebiscite, the currently advancing Soviet Army was on the Vistula line, they had a peace pact with Germany, and they were ready to invade any territories, that would belong to Poland as a result of the Plebiscite. So the major motivation for people to vote the way they voted, was to keep the Soviet hordes, known for brutality, away of their homes. It had nothing to do with nationality. Polish National organizations were the strongest in East Prussia, even stronger, than in Silesia.
Thanks for removing this paragraph, JHK. It doesnt make sense in the post 1945 period, or in any other period.
SC
I put this under Kaller, but thought it should also go here:
This Is very interesting -- another one of those "not the whole truth" things. According to Kaller's online biography, he was at best a very politically naive man who seemed oblivious to the downside of the Nazis. Apparently, his tenure in Ermland was from the beginning troubled. There was resistance because he wasn't a local, and he made repeated faux pas that offended lots of people. He was pretty avid in forcing his Polish parishioners to participate in German-language liturgy. At the end of the war, he claimed the Heimatvertriebene were not victims, but God's chosen. Some of these latter parishioners have tried to put his name forth for canonization.
On the other hand, Hlond is also an interesting character. He was ousted from Poland from the Nazis. He returned at the end of the war, when as primate of Poland, he ousted Kaller. He would clearly have been within his rights to do so. From the articles I read (and there are few that aren't in Polish), it seems he ousted Kaller in part because he was seen to have been on the side of the Nazis. Interestingly, Hlond was also very active in standing up to the Soviet repression of the Church in Poland. So, his motivations are not entirely clear, but may have had less to do with any inherent unfairness than as a response to a Bishop who was already unpopular among many parishioners and who would not have been able to keep any real authority after the war. Hlond's record vis à vis the Jews in Poland is pretty bad, but typical of many clerics of the time. His name has also been put forth for beatification, not just by a small minority. Personally, if the Yad Vashem site is correct, I'd have second thoughts about that. Hlond was instrumental in setting up ministries for displaced Poles after the war, though. JHK
HJ - although I admit there is room for more research on the topic, what I found out and described above (on several websites, most pretty NPOV) leads me to believe that the version of the Kaller/Hlond thing is somewhat biased. I therefore removed it until we can make sure it's neutral JHK
I am getting now a bit worried.
I.) User Szopen:
:Errr, i thikn you mistake me with someone else. I have never wrote words below. I htink it was either Cautious or Space Cadet, but not sure. Szopen 14:00, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
"Wehrwolf apologisers propaganda reworded"
Szopen, what anyway has this Werwolf stuff to do here in Wiki ? It does not sound
- Again, these are not my words. Szopen 14:00, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
authoritative to me - just some lame excuses. Let us remove it completely. Even more as it sounds that only the Germans killed poor unsuspecting polish settlers. I wonder, where this unsuspecting polish settlers came from ? Did they move in in that moment the russians destroyed the german army in east prussia ? Did they come just 7 or 14 days behind the fighting troops ? Do you actually believe that ?
I might add, that the Wehrwolf thing is to a good degree just that: A constructed excuse. Wehrwolf did never work to the extent some people portray it here. It was usually some 15-y old youts as well as 60 year old men, who certainly did not have the fighting power and will which is attributed to them. And yeah, this old tale of SS-Soldiers assigned to them - dont you think these soldiers were much more needed elsewehre within the normal army ? And do you also believe, that "the bulk" of Wehrwolf was made of SS-Soldiers who escaped POW'ship ? Oh my.. How have they been supposed to find Wehrwolf "units" ? And anyway, was there so much population left to support Wehrwolf, as you and others claim ? And the joke is: directly form this alleged (!) support of the alleged (!) Wehrwolf the right to expel the german population left, is derived. Do you really, actually, believe that the complete expulsion of the Germans was not planned before..?
Anyway. The Polish people did, of course, not kill any German civilians.... or did they too ? Or have they even been morally entitled to kill Germans, as "they" started the war ?
- Polish people, of course DID kill German civilians. The difference is, that this cases were much less numerous, did after the Germans killed hundreds of people (though i think that to some that did not matter - there is special class of people in every nation who are using whatever pretext they could find to rob else's property), and this was not state-sponsored. But still there were a crimes.
- Anyway, this is not to me.Szopen 14:00, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
II.) User Space Cadet:
Do you know what the term "annexing" means ? It means to take over someones territory without the agreement of that entity. The Munich dictate, for example, was such a thing. Czechoslovakia did in fact agree after the Munich conference, but: it was forced to do so. Germany did not even under threat agree to East Prussia handed over to Poland and Russia. She was simply not asked, the victors decided: East Prussia belongs to Poland and Russia from now on. Please note as well, that not without reason these Territories were "placed under polish/russian ADMINISTRATION" officially.
To conclude: Poland DID annex these territories, for it was a one-side thing. Had Germany agreed to surrender territory to Poland, it would not have to be called by this term. Again: "annexation" is a legal term which applies here. If you like it or not.
Your remark "Post-war Poland had neither the will or the resources to "annex" anything" shows quite clearly that you dont like the sound of "annexing" and have at the same time no knowledge about its meaning.
"To annex" is an active verb, therefore it implies action on the part of the word used as a noun. Poland never took any action to receive those territories, nor did it show any will to do so. It cannot be a "ONE-SIDE THING" since neither Poland nor Germany had anything to say about the border shift. Poland "was given" or "received" those territories, but did not "annex" anything. (By the way, grammatically speaking - "to receive" is also an active verb, yet it is clear by common sense that "receiving" doesn't require one's action, will or approval).
To conclude: Poland and Germany were both victims of World War II and its consequences. Germany had lands taken away from it, so did Poland, but it was also given some other lands. To say that Poland annexed German lands is not just poor wording or slight distortion of truth - it is a straight forward lie intended to portray Germany as a victim of Polish aggression.
So please don't patronize users on their knowledge of English language and don't make up "legal definitions" of your own to justify your bias and ignorance.
Space Cadet 15:49, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
See also: Oder-Neisse line. Space Cadet 17:18, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Well, Space Cadet,
i do not have the intention to "straight forward lie" about history. Nor do i have the intiontion to "patronize users on the knowledge of english language". Nor do i want to "justify own bias and my ignorance". Having said that, let me explain a bit more in detail.
We do have two slightly different interpretations of "annex". You insist, that grammatically it is an active word and therefore Poland had to be active to annex something. (At the same time, you bring an example where an active word does not require action from the person using it - makes me wonder if it is only about grammatics) I maintain, that annexing means taking over someones territory without asking. Well, we can both agree to these interpretations - i guess so. Still, what interpretation to emphasize ?
I see very well your point that Poland was the junior partner and had in fact no significant say on the new borderlines to be drawn. However, why do i deny an only passive role of Poland, why do i use a word like "annex" which implies indeed at least a little bit of action ? Because the Polish People felt in these days, that Germany had to pay for the atrocities committed against them. They felt a lot of hate, built up during the war and occupation. And indeed, they made Germany pay. Polish citizens, not only communists but also ordinary people, made suffer the refugees traveling from the former german territories to now-Germany a lot, while it was official Polish policy to expulse all Germans which did not commit themselves to being Poles, let it even be Masurs or not. The full and bureaucratic complete takeover of the former german eastern territories was in a planned manner facilitated, as official Polish policy.
THIS is the point where i must disagree with your view, that Poland was only a victim of WWII. Poland took revenge, understandably, but still it took revenge on Germany by systematically expulsing all Germans in own responsibility - usually not in a very nice and clean way, such as the official word "transfer" used in the Potsdam decisions and elsehwhere is suggesting to us.
Conclusio: There was indeed decisive Polish action in the takeover of these lands. It was not given lock, stock-and-barrel to a surprised, not-expecting-this Poland by the Soviets. You might ask at this point, alright, but could have Poland declined these lands ? Well, it possibly could have. But it did certainly NOT want to do so. And if it had wanted some compromise it could have left the german population there, at least the population which stayed and did not flee, or even parts of them. Or, it could have at least given better conditions (read: conditions who made more people survive the treck) to the Germans expulsed. It did not so. Why ? Well, i mentioned it - inevitable hate accumulated, caused by German actions during the war. So - there was as sure as hell Polish active participation.
Another example: the eastern Part of Poland was annexed by the Soviet Union as a result of the Hitler-Stalin pact and Hitlers Attack on Poland. It was conquered if i remember correctly, mainly by german forces because Hitler wanted to give it to his buddy Stalin as "present". So the only action required by Stalin was to send troops in to mop up the remaining resistance and formally declare theses lands soviet lands. Of course, also some bureaucrats and NKVD to send in. You would, i assume, despite the limited soviet action not hesitate to call it an annexation...
- You remember it wrong. Soviets fought with KOP and few regular battles, however most of armies in eastern part of Poland were ordered to avoid battles and were withdrawing to the south. Germans reached almost no territory outside of Molotov-Ribbentrop line. Szopen 07:13, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Okay, so i reword my statement:
- "Hitler finished off Poland in military terms, Stalin had only to bag in Eastern Poland. Still, you would call that an annexation by Russia, would'nt you ?"
- Okay, so much for "to annex". What is the alternative used in so many Wiki-Articles ? Usually such as "Poland was given.."
By wording like "Poland received" or "was given" we imply besides the fact that Poland was rather passive in the process of transfer ( Alright, why not, as indeed the SU was after all responsible ), also that Poland rightfully received territories by someone. THIS is the point i have a problem with. Even more when it goes like this "Poland was given by the Potsdam Conference..." or even better, "Poland regained".
"received back" or "regained" are just as much distortions of history. Every conqueror created legends to justify the conqest. The Germans in their expansion to the east did so by maintaining their cultural superiority over the slavs, the Poles after WW II by declaring these lands ancient slavic territory, which was rightfully and only logically regained.
- Chris, while early expansio in say X or even XI century may be exaplined by "cultural" superiority, most of territories acquitred were on the west side of Oder. The rest of territories were gained either via brutal conquest (Gdansk areas, Ziemia Lubuska) or by Germanisation set as official policy of state (Silesia - BTW i just've read the opinion that if not Frideric the Great conquest, Silesia would evolve into separate Polish-speaking nation, just as Austria is separate German-speaking nation). There was of course also colonisation, but Germans settled in greatest numbers territories which already were best developed (Silesia). Not sure whether "slavs" and "Germans" is intentional, or just mistake during fast typing. Also, revenge of Poles can't be quite compared to policy of Nazi Germany during war. It is comparable - to some extent - to Nazi expulsion of close to million Poles from areas annexed into Third Reich and from Zamojszczyzna Szopen 07:07, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)
To sum up, i see the point that "annex" is implying at least some active role. I tried to explain, that there WAS also an active role of Poland in the takeover, it is not possible to see ( in the takeover of these lands !) Poland only as passive victim which just got some land. So, i believe indeed the term "annex" to be justified, but most certainly not a "lie" as Space Cadet liked to call it. Still, i do not mind using other language, as long it is not implying that these territories were legally correct obtained. This does have nothing to do with the fact, that these territories are finally with the german reunification accepted as Polish territory by Germany. Anyway, they were obtained by a lost/resp. won war, nothing exceptional in history. But please, let us also call this (unfortunately!) traditional event of taking over someones territory by force the right way. Not necessarily annexing, but certainly not "receiving" or even "regained".
Chris