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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Clutch (talk | contribs) at 12:05, 21 November 2002 (more evidence of Lirs bad attitude toward the Wikipedia). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Hello there Clutch, welcome to the 'pedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you need any questions answered about the project then check out Wikipedia:Help or drop me a line. BTW, I see you are a fellow GNU freak. Right on! Cheers! --maveric149

Clutch, I love Jehovah's Witnesses. I have the November 1, 2002 copy of The Watchtower before me right now. I reccommend the back page article We All Need Commendation. I won't stand for any JW-bashing here on Wikipedia. Nor will tolerate a whitewash. Pure, fair NPOV all the way! --Ed Poor

Thanks for the note, Ed. I support religious freedom for everyone. I don't have a copy of that issue. Is the article somewhere on the web? It's been a while since anyone dropped the Watchtower and Awake off at my house. I'm glad you won't stand for JW-bashing. However, just because RK and Modemac have been waving their hands around shouting "whitewash!" doesn't make me a whitewasher. Their constant slurs and innuendos, repeated shouts that I am a "vandal" while dismissing my arguments and reasoning out of hand, have not made being an editor here a pleasant experience. --Clutch 20:42 Oct 24, 2002 (UTC)
Ah, don't take those guys so seriously. They can't ban you; so, do as you think best. Believe it or not, for my first few months as a contributor I myself was often called a "vandal". But as I got more into the spirit of things I learned how to make changes that others would accept, and now I'm a sysop! See my user page for some general tips, and feel free to ask for my help at any time. --Ed Poor 20:47 Oct 24, 2002 (UTC)
Thats a relief. When I tried to post some more detail on the vandalism page as user 63.* my changes never "took" so I assumed RK or Modemac had just gone ahead and banned my IP anyway. --Clutch 20:53 Oct 24, 2002 (UTC)
Excuse me for stepping in, but please: don't take everyone so seriously--some of the contributors still don't understand about working together and resolving issues amicably.  :-) Anyway, here is a list of people who can ban other users, though many of them choose not to. Best, --KQ


Is wikipedia-l appropriate for the kind of discussions that happen on talk pages? --Clutch 21:13 Oct 24, 2002 (UTC)

Welcome to the wonderful world of dealing with Lir. My condolences. -- Zoe

Lir doesn't seem open to any outside suggestions on how she can improve her writing. All we can do is wait till she decides to move on elsewhere, or becomes a better writer. In the meantime she's creating a lot of work for everyone else, trying to clear up her muddy writing. Her intentions seem good, but she takes all advice as an attack, and worse, doesn't seem to really understand what goes in an encyclopedia. At first I assumed she was just an enthusiastic 12 year old; but seeing the type of articles she has edited, such as The Wealth of Nations, by Adam Smith, she clearly has read a fair bit and come to the proper political conclusions about the evilness of Capitalism, the goodness of anarchy, etc. She's an enigma that I don't feel any motivation to solve. Thanks for your condolences, Zoe. :-) --Clutch 00:13 Oct 30, 2002 (UTC)


I have taken the liberty of moving "An Anarchist's Creed" to the Meta-Wikipedia at m:An Anarchist's Creed, and changed your user page to reflect the change. I hope you don't mind, but this appears to be the right thing to do given current Wikipedia policy. -- Anon.

Clutch, thank you for adding nice things and taking away nasty things, at the Unification Church article. I only hope you don't "overdo it": there are still a large number of people who associate cult, cult suicides and deprogramming with my church -- out of ignorance rather than malice, I'm sure. :-) Ed Poor

I removed those links because they were truly unrelated. There was nothing in the articles linked to that referred to the Unification Church. If someone makes an article about "Why some people think the Unification Church is a cult", then I wouldn't have nearly as much of a leg to stand on in delinking it. More importantly than writing feel-good articles, we are trying to maintain objectivity, balance, and a NPOV. All three are separate things. RK may froth at the mouth and say objectivity isn't a necessary attribute of encyclopedias, but every encyclopedia I've ever seen has made a best-effort attempt at objectivity. During my whole adolescence and childhood I read encyclopedias for entertainment. I think I know how they are supposed to go. --Clutch
Okay, I wasn't really arguing anyway :-) --Ed Poor

I'm rubber and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you! WOO! Lir 04:08 Nov 8, 2002 (UTC)

there is nothing wrong with editing frequency and wavelength Lir 11:07 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)

You have caused a lot of pent-up hostility against yourself. Innocent or not, noone here is in a state to rationally evaluate your contributions; if you go away for a week and learn to use the Show preview button, I'm certain that people will be a lot nicer to you. It's up to you; are you a masochist, or do you like it when people treat you nicely, as an equal? --Clutch 11:12 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)

I am quite content. Lir 11:15 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)

Your answer wasn't clear. Did you mean to say "Yes, I am a total masochist, I get orgasms from your harsh feelings toward me"? --Clutch 11:22 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)

Clutch, can you please stop the edit war with Lir? It's cluttering up the Recent Changes page. Thanks. --Eloquence 11:23 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)

Orgasms good...Lir 11:24 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)
Ordinarily Eloquence, I would. I respect your wishes. However Lir litters the Recent Changes quite as much all by herself; I don't see how this edit war makes it any worse. Sorry. If I see signs of capitulation, I'll back off. I can stand a few edits in poor taste, but when someone edits as prolifically as Lir, they better at least have a modicum of taste; she seems to lack it entirely. --Clutch 11:27 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)
There are ongoing discussions about whether or not to ban Lir on enwiki-l. For the moment, it's best for all of us to be patient. You can help me with my attempt to build a gallery of Fayum mummy portraits if you're bored ;-) --Eloquence 11:35 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)
Good design happens in chunks Lir 11:40 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)
Make the chunks bigger then. Or isn't your mind big enough to hold them? --Clutch 11:47 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)
maybe its ADHD! Lir 11:54 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)
ADHD is no barrier to good taste. Myself being a case in point. --Clutch 11:57 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)
but maybe its like one of those paintings with dots and you havent spent enough time staring at my edits with crossed eyes! Lir 12:00 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)
Yet more evidence that you don't give a shit about the intentions and modus operandi of a real life Encyclopedia. --Clutch 12:05 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)
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