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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by John K (talk | contribs) at 06:18, 16 July 2004 (→Life Peers). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

User talk:John Kenney/Archive 1 User talk:John Kenney/Archive 2 User talk:John Kenney/Archive 3 User talk:John Kenney/Archive 4 User talk:John Kenney/Archive 5 User talk:John Kenney/Archive 6

(UTC)

Category:Dramatists

So are we making this category then?--[[User:HamYoyo|HamYoyo (Talk)]] 20:48, May 31, 2004 (UTC)

JK, don't put any articles directly under category:Writers; it's much too broad!--[[User:HamYoyo|HamYoyo (Talk)]] 08:03, Jun 2, 2004 (UTC)

Sig

Just to let you know, your signature, "john k", seems to be creating runaway bolding. One fix would be to have the string be "john]] [[User_talk:John Kenney|'''k'''", so as to have valid nesting. (This breakdown may be related to the new MediaWiki parser.) VV 09:33, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

De Gaulle

Check my note on the de Gaulle's discussion page about French middle names. Would be better to delete, but will wait for general agreement. Hardouin 10:28, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Anonymous Daniel Pipes fanboy

I suppose we should try to draw his/her attention to the talk page, by force if necessary :). Otherwise we can just revert as necessary—turning an article into a fawning PR piece does not, I regret to say, count as vandalism. —No-One Jones 07:50, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Or, since he seems to have created the account NihilObstat, I'll try to get his attention via his talk page. That's probably best. —No-One Jones 07:53, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Look here, I quote from a book an historical fact. Please do not revert again. I will replace the selection again. IT IS AN HISTORICAL FACT THAT THE MONARCHIST PARTY CALLED ITSELF THE REACTIONARY PARTY. It is to be remembered. HISTORICAL FACT IS NPOV. WHEELER 14:25, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

"Eventually--although no fixed date can be assigned--the line of cleavage between monarchists and republicans as such ceased to have practical importance; and the harsh party name Reactionary gave way to the milder term Conservative." This is the quote I took the information from The Governments of Europe pg 485. The author capitalized the word reactionary. He calls it "a party". I referenced this selection.WHEELER 17:12, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC) He is also a PHD published by MacMillan Co. The book is 775 pages long. The man must know what he is talking about.WHEELER 17:13, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

From my perspective, I read it as they called themselves Reactionary. He says before this that in l871 the monarchist group had three factions the Legitimist, Bourbon and Bonapartist Factions. After the above quoted paragraph, the author uses only the term conservative.
They were called reactionaries and called themselves Reactionaries?
Do we have another reference? I understand that no parties existed in the early years of the Revolution as such but in l871, l875, weren't there parties in France at this late date?
If no more confirmation, go ahead and change it back to faction then.WHEELER 18:16, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

You or I will change it then.WHEELER 00:18, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)


Hi John! Assuming you are a sysop (not sure), can you delete Charles, Duke of Orléans for me? Its just a redirect and i want to move a page there. Thanks, Muriel G 16:03, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Weirdness

You just added a category to Tacitus, right? In my watchlist, it says "N 17:49:37 Gaius Cornelius Tacitus (cur; hist) . . John Kenney (Talk) (Gaius Cornelius Tacitus moved to Tacitus)" but I'm certain that redirect has existed for months - that's how it got onto my watclist in the first place. Stan 05:13, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

OK, that makes sense. The last I remember, Tacitus was the historian, somebody else must have been tinkering and I didn't notice. Time to protect the page! :-) Stan 05:21, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Donald Maclean

You when move to Donald Duart Maclean, you need to disambig all the other articles which point to Donald Maclean which I have done :-) --Nzpcmad 08:34, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

"writer " category

Hi, just noticing that you were removing the "writer" category to some articles to which I had just added it several days ago. Not complaining, just curious as to know how one is to keep on top of which categories are in circulation. I find the whole business rather chaotic. -- Viajero 11:53, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Peerage

Hi John! I had a look on the Naming conventions. The foreign titles are not specified. I only saw instructions for english peers. They go like Henry Foot-Tootsie, 11th Baron Purpleberries. I would not like to adopt this, say, for the Duchies in continental europe. I dont like it either with foreign names like Duchesse du Berry oder Herzog von Sachsen. This, in my opinion, makes no sense in an english encyclopaedia and its a potential maintenance problem, because new articles are likely to be created according to english names. I agree with you, when you say that whatever convention, it should be consistent. Why do you prefer to use French titles here?, if i may ask. Cheers, Muriel G 13:54, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Hi. I took the liberty of editing the vulgar apologetics out of the opening paragraph on Adolf Hitler, inserted by Sam Spade. Please look at the history, and see if you can clean up a little. I see an edit war brewing. Danny 17:05, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Regardless, Sam put back his version. Wanna see some real shit? Danny 17:25, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)


[[Diadochi

Excellent recasting! Takes the bull by the horns! Wetman 01:07, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Szczecin

Ok, I will be consistent and will add all Celtic, German and French names to the cities in the British Isles. I started with London (formerly Londinium). Halibutt 04:58, Jun 14, 2004 (UTC)

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that it's not the factual information that is copyrighted, but the way it's presented. I mean, Burke's is all "factual information", but if we scanned in a copy and put it in an article we'd have Burke's lawyers on us pretty quickly. In any case, it's not very polite of us to base an article almost entirely around one source and then not quote that source as a reference at the bottom, especially when someone's obviously gone to a lot of trouble compiling that source, even if it is factual information. Proteus (Talk) 09:39, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Canadian social credit movement

Thanks for cleaning this article up. It has been bothering me for a while that the federal party info was mixed in with the provincial stuff. At the same time, I'm not entirely sure that the federal party was called the 'Social Credit Party of Canada'. I think that socreds liked to consider themselves more than just a party. I'll check on that some time. Keep up the good work.

After further research, I think I'm mistaken. There seem to be references to 'Party' in various reliable places. I have added some more info about the party in the 1980s and 90s. Kevintoronto 20:30, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

John, i left a message in my talk page for you. There not here not to break the line of conversation. Anyway, i think we should move this discussion to a talk page of a Wikipedia:Naming conventions (French peerage) Cheers, Muriel G 14:56, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC) (I am now here)

On Imperial styles of commoners

John,
Someone recently moved the Joshua A. Norton article to Norton I of the United States. I moved it to Emperor Norton, which is the way he was commonly known, and would be looked up: I felt that Wikipedia shouldn't be treating him as it does an actual monarch. I was surprised by the amount of support there seems to be for treating this pretend title as if it were real. I was hoping you'd agree<g> but even if not, thought you might be more patient than I feel like being in expressing my opinion at Talk:Emperor Norton. - Nunh-huh 21:46, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for that! I have also a question on Catherine Oxenberg's mother at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (names and titles) that you may be able to help with. -- Nunh-huh 18:53, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Adminiship

The page is locked. I can't edit it. AndyL 02:11, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Dave Coulier

Thanks for your message. Merged my content onto your page, and I'm surprised that I hadn't noticed its existence. Again, thanks for the notice! Rhymeless 08:02, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Request for Mediation

Herschelkrustofsky (the user, not Krusty the Clown) has requested mediation between himself and you and Adam Carr regarding the article Lyndon LaRouche. Could you please respond, either on Wikipedia:Requests for mediation or on my talk page, to say whether you are prepared to accept mediation. If you accept, could you please say whether you have any preference over who the mediator is. There is a list at Wikipedia:Mediation Committee, although you may choose someone not on the official committee if you prefer.

Thanks, Bcorr, Co-chair of the Mediation Committee. 00:21, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)


I thought minor housekeeping edits were allowed ie wikifying words. Should I just rollback my edits?AndyL 03:32, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

WP:RFROAA

(cross-posted to several user talk: pages)

I noticed that you participated in the discussion regarding reorganization of this page. I have written a proposal for a new format and would like any comments, criticisms, or feedback you may have to offer. Thanks, —No-One Jones 14:26, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

NCLC

I've attempted to remove some of the propaganda from National Caucus of Labor Committees and add some more critical info. Please see if you have anything to contribute. AndyL 00:33, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

WHEELER and Nazism

Please see Talk:Nazism and Talk:Nazism/Seperate-National Socialism AndyL 19:10, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)



Curzon of Kedleston

Odd as it seems to have a Marquess with an "X of Y" title, he was "Curzon of Kedleston" from the very first creation ("Baron Curzon of Kedleston, of Kedleston in the County of Derby"), and had to keep the "of Kedleston" all the way through his promotions to distinguish him from the Earl Howe, who was (and still is) both Viscount and Baron Curzon ("Viscount/Baron Curzon, of Penn in the County of Buckingham"). It appears that Lord Curzon of Kedleston didn't appreciate this very much, and consistently signed letters "Curzon" instead of "Curzon of Kedleston", much to the irritation of Lord Howe, whose son, Viscount Curzon, was the only person entitled to sign himself "Curzon". Of course the easy option would have been for him to become Marquess of Kedleston, but I suppose he wanted to keep his surname in the title. Proteus (Talk) 09:10, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Szczecin

Today around evening, I'll do my best cleaning up the mess User:PolishPoliticians did. I can't do it at work, since I need to refer to sources in order to know when the city was named as was it then. At first sight it seems like at least an hour work, since I'd have to double check every detail he inserted. Przepla 10:54, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Haute Cour of Jerusalem

Hey, I made this article about the feudal court of Jerusalem, I thought you might be interested. I think I may have simplified things too much...and I'm not sure about the title but it can be moved if necessary. If you have anything to add, that would be great! Adam Bishop 00:39, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

LaRouche vs WHEELER

I don't know what gives me a bigger migraine Lyndon LaRouche/draft or WHEELER's Early National Socialism/draft AndyL 06:23, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Let's be thankful there are no supporters of Juan Posadas on wikipedia to quibble with. AndyL 07:06, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

French history

Yes, you are right, the general state of the series is pretty awful. On the theory of "write what you know" (and, admittedly, pushing a little even there) I've been working on the [[French Revolution]. I've developed several ancillary articles (people associated with, historians of, a glossary), and have been working on the history itself (as a series of articles), also adding some people, institutions, etc. So far I think I've done a fair job from 1789 up to about mid-1792. I'm not much on military history, and would really like to see someone else take on that side of things, or at least to provide leadership in the matter. -- Jmabel 05:42, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)

Check this out

Please take a look at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Early National Socialism/draftAndyL 08:33, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)


WHEELER and anti-Semitism

From Talk:Early National Socialism/draft

And by the way since you want to declare a pedigree just because your relatives suffered under the Holocaust.
The Nazis also committeed atrocities on the island of Crete. My uncle, Sirodakis, was a great underground fighter. It was my island that lead a ferocious resistance to the Nazis. It was my co-religionists, Catholic priests that went to the camps as well. And it was Jewish communists that destroyed the Orthodox Church in Russia. Many a Christian died in Jewish concentration camps in Russian before the Nazis ever killed a single Jew. So don't cry buster and don't wave your victimhood in my face.WHEELER 15:43, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

WHEELER complaint

Please see Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User:WHEELER I need one (or two?) people to certify the complaint. If you can attempt to resolve the dispute or intervene on Talk:Early_National_Socialism/draft and then document that would be helpfulAndyL 03:13, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Protection

I know I should know this but where do I go to request that National Socialism be protected? WHEELER is trying to change it from a disambig page to an article despite the fact that his attempt to write an article Early National Socialism/draft is on the verge of being deleted. I can't protect it since I've previously been reverting WHEELER on that page. Do I simply ask a fellow admin to protect it or is there a formal request page? Thanks AndyL 19:36, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Energa Gedania Gdansk

Could you unprotect the Gdansk page, please? There seems to be no dispute at the moment at the Talk:Gdansk page and I would like to add the following entry:

Thank you, EBL 20:15, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Traveling

I just stumbled across your user page. Enjoy your time traveling in Europe. Best wishes, 172 08:43, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

John could you look through and fix Adolf Hitler - from a brief skim it looks like a Holocaust revisionist has been through it. PMA 11:44, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Conflict

Hi,

Can you to mediate in conflict with User:Irredenta. The problem is with naming policy in Vilinus article, as well as with historical issues in the following articles: Gabriel Fahrenheit, Johann Reinhold Forster, Georg Forster. Regards.Yeti 10:16, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hallo, John, you did wrote in Gabriel Fahrenheit, that you consider West Prussia to be a province of Poland in these days. Please, take a look at this webpage: Geschichte der Provinz Westpreußen. It reads: "Der Zweite Thorner Frieden wurde am 19. Oktober 1466 geschlossen. (...) Für das dem Orden verbliebene Gebiet mußte der Hochmeister dem polnischen König einen persönlichen Eid ablegen, wodurch aber kein Lehnsverhältnis begründet wurde. Das abgetretene Gebiet, "Preußen Königlichen Anteils" oder kurz "Königliches Preußen" genannt, wurde jedoch nicht inkorporiert, sondern mit der Krone Polen in einer rechtlich nicht klar definierten Union verbunden. (..) Die Sonderstellung des "Königlichen Preußen" gegenüber der Krone, die Aufrechterhaltung seiner Sonderrechte, eigenen Landtage und Landesregierung (Landesrat) wurden für ein Jahrhundert Gegenstand ständiger Auseinandersetzungen." translating: "The Second Treaty of Thorn was closed on 19 October 1466 (...) for the sake of the area that remains under the rule of the Teutonic Order, its Grand Master has to place a personal oath to the Polish king, whereby however no relationship of fiefdom was justified. The retired area, called "Royal Prussia", however was not incorporated, but was connected to the Polish crown in a legally not clearly defined matter (..) the privileged position of "Royal Prussia" opposite the crown, the maintenance of its special rights, own parliament and own government ("Landesrat") became for one century the subject of constant arguments." further: "erkannte Danzig 1454 die Schutzherrschaft des polnischen Königs an. Danzig wurde durch Personalunion mit dem Reiche Polen verbunden, gehörte diesem aber völkerrechtlich nicht an. Der König von Polen erhielt nur geringe Hoheitsrechte. Danzig behielt ein ausgedehntes Territorium auf der Danziger Höhe und in den Weichselniederungen, behielt Selbständigkeit bei der Regelung innerer Angelegenheiten und in der auswärtigen Politik. Sie hat selbständig Verträge mit fremden Mächten abgeschlossen, deren Vertreter in Danzig residierten. Ausländischen Truppen, auch polnischen, war der Eintritt in die Stadt untersagt. Danzigs Schiffe fuhren unter eigener Flagge. 1523-26 setzte sich die Reformation durch. Trotz polnischer Eingriffe blieb Danzig evangelisch. Als 1569 der polnische Reichstag zu Lublin das "Königliche Preußen" dem polnischen Reich inkorporierte, hielten Danzig, Elbing und Thorn an ihrer völkerrechtlichen Unabhängigkeit fest. Diese wurde 1577 von König Stephan Bathory bestätigt, der die Stadt Danzig auch durch eine Belagerung nicht unterwerfen konnte. Danzig behielt alle seine Privilegien, insbesondere auch das Recht zur freien Ausübung des evangelischen Bekenntnisses." translating: "In 1454, Danzig recognized the protectorate of the Polish king. Danzig was been connected by personal union with the state of Poland, but according to international law did not belong to the Polish state. The king of Poland received only small sovereignty rights. Danzig kept property of an expanded territory on the Danziger Height and in the Weichselniederungen, kept independence with the regulation of internal affairs and in the foreign policy. Danzig independently sign contracts with foreign powers, whose representatives resided in Danzig. The entrance into the city was forbidden to foreign troops, therefore also to Polish troops. Danzig's ships sailed under own flag. 1523-26 the reformation became generally accepted. Despite Polish interferences, Danzig remained being evangelic. When in 1569 the Polish parliament at Lublin incorporated "Royal Prussia" into the Polish state, Danzig, Elbing and Thorn held at its independence by international-law. This was confirmed in 1577 by king Stephan Bathory, who could not subject the city Danzig even by a siege. Danzig kept all its privileges, in particular also the right for the free practice of the Evangelist confession."
There is a second webside: Westpreussen reading "Westpreußen hatte nun den König von Polen zum Landesherrn. Rechtsgrundlage für das staatsrechtliche Verhältnis war der Vertrag vom 4. 8. 1454. Praktisch war die Abhängigkeit sehr unterschiedlich. Der Bischof von Ermland, Paul von Logendorf, war 1464—67 Verbündeter des Königs; der Thorner Vertrag hatte die Schirmherrschaft vom Hochmeister auf den König übertragen. Wirklich autonom waren die drei großen Städte Danzig, Elbing und Thorn, weil sie für ihre finanziellen Leistungen im Kriege und beim Kauf der Marienburg den Ergebungsvertrag von 1454 durch weitgehende Privilegien von 1457 ergänzen konnten. Für sie war die Oberhoheit des Königs nahezu rein formeller Art. Ihnen hat diese Unabhängigkeit auch den erwarteten wirtschaftlichen Aufschwung gebracht. Danzig und Elbing, untereinander rivalisierend, traten das Erbe des Ordensstaates im Ostseehandel an, (...). Das restliche Westpreußen hatte 1454 zwar die gleichen Rechte wie der polnische Adel erhalten, verlor jedoch gleich nach dem Frieden die eigene Landesspitze in der Person des Statthalters. Landtag und Landesrat sowie eingesessene Oberbeamte blieben zunächst bestehen." translating: "West Prussia now had the king from Poland as its sovereign. Legal basis for the relationship was the contract of 4. August 1454. Practically, dependence was very different. The bishop of Ermland, Paul von Logendorf, was 1464-67 allying the king; the (Second) Treaty of Thorn had transferred the patronage from the Grand Master to the king. The three large cities Danzig, Elbing and Thorn were really autonomous, because they were able to supplement the resulting of the contract of 1454, because of their financial achievements in the war and with the purchase of the Marienburg castle, resulting in large privileges of 1457. For them, the sovereignty of the king was almost purely of only formal matter. This independence also brought them the expected economic upswing. Danzig and Elbing, among themselves rivaling, began the inheritance of the Teutonic Order in the Baltic Sea trade, (...). The remaining West Preussia had received the same rights as the Polish aristocracy in 1454, however right after the peace it lost its own head-of-country in the person of the governor. Landtag (parliament) and Landesrat (government) as well as the established upper official remained existing, at first." further "Auf dem polnischen Reichstage zu Lublin im Jahre 1569 wurde die Autonomie Westpreußens über die Köpfe seiner Stände hinweg beseitigt und die Personalunion mit der Krone Polens in eine Realunion mit dem Reiche Polen umgewandelt. Nun waren die westpreußischen Landtage nur noch vorbereitende Ausschüsse des polnischen Reichstages, von dem die Städte Polens ausgeschlossen waren. Danzig, Elbing und Thorn erhielten das Recht der Teilnahme; doch hat Danzig grundsätzlich davon keinen Gebrauch gemacht, weil es diese sog. »Lubliner Union« nicht anerkannt hat. Die beiden anderen Städte erschienen selten, da sie stets überstimmt wurden. Immerhin haben die westpreußischen Landstände sich einige Besonderheiten bewahren können: Steuerbewilligungsrecht, Steuerverfassung, Entscheidung über Teilnahme an Kriegen und das Landeswappen, den schwarzen Adler mit erhobenem Schwertarm" translating: "At the meeting of Polish parliament at Lublin in the year 1569 the autonomy of West Prussia was eliminated without consulting West Prussia's own parliament and own government itself, and the Personal union with the crown of Poland was converted into a material union with the state of Poland. Now the West Prussian parliament were only a preparing committees of the Polish parliament, from which the cities of Poland were excluded. Danzig, Elbing and Thorn received the right of the participation; but Danzig made in principle no use of it because it did not recognize this so-called "Lubliner union". The two other cities appeared rarely, since they were always outvoted. Nevertheless the West Prussian Landstände could retain themselves some extra characteristics: the Tax Grant right, tax constitution act, decision over participation in wars and the coat of arms of the country, the black eagle with raised sword arm."
I am sorry for my poor performance in translating, but I did not found English websides about this. As you are historian, can you find some sources about Second Treaty of Thorn and the corresponding contract from August 4th, 1454 and the privileges from 1457? As the West Prussian never accepted the unilateral breach of contract from Lublin 1569 and the Polish king was to renew the old rights after the war against Danzig in 1577, I think West Prussia was never a part of Poland nor was West Prussia a Polish province. No one who was born in West Prussia between Second Treaty of Thorn and the Partitions of Poland was born in Poland. West Prussia was an independent Grand duchy, with the Polish king being in Personal Union the formal sovereign, but without West Prussia being a part or a province of Poland. No Polish city was allowed to participate in Polish parliament, but the Prussian cities were granted this right. They do not accepted this right, as they do not accepted to be part of Poland. What do you think about it, John? --Irredenta 13:56, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Irredenta, small points:
  1. First sorry for mistake, It was indeed 1569 not 1525.
  2. As i said, the unification of Royal Prussia with rest of Poland was done against the will of the king and elites of Royal Prussia, but it would be impossible without backing from lesser gentry. The envoys from Royal Prussia were discriminated by elites for participating in Polish parliament. The executionist' movement and how it finally reached its goal of UoL is itself a fascinating story
  3. If Royal Prussia before 1569 was in personal union with Poland, then Polish king in Prussia would use only "Prussian duke' title, not Polish king. There would be document stating that Prussia is tied only with monarch. But I don't know about such documents. I've already wrote it in Forster:talk, which you ignored.
  4. Polish troops and clerks had free entrance into Gdansk. THe status of Danzig was regulated by Polish parliament. Batory in fact defeated the Danzig: it idd not recognise him as king, so he defeated Daznig army in open field (but was unable to took Danzig) but Danzig finally recognise him as king, paid enormous sum in gold as apology and then whenever requested send artillery to Bathory's campaigns
  5. Since in Poland there was total freedom of religion guaranteed by law, the claims that "Daznig had right to be evangelical" as signs of independence are, well, absurd
  6. The Royal Prussian local parliament was not consulted, becaue execusionist movement was of opinion that words of Treaty of Lublin should be treated literally. That's why after years of fight they were able to convince king to final unification of Polish provinces.
  7. As i believe, your opinion is that Royal Prussia EVEN AFTER FORMAL UNIFICATION was not part of Poland (despite that local elites were happily participating in work of Polish parliament, paid taxes to Polish treasury etc) bsaed on your convinctions that incorporation was done illegally. So, anyone born in Posen in 1900 was also born in Poland, not in Prussia, since unification of Grand Duchy of Poznan with the rest of Prussia was also done illegally.
  8. In 1770 Prussian king Frederic consulted POLISH parliament about legality of incorporating Royal Prussia. If Royal Prussia was not Polish province, it would be absurd to do so.
In short, you are trying to convince us, that despite what people in XVIII century believed, despite of facts, Royal Prussia was not province of Poland because you question legality of 1569 act. Szopen 15:04, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Note that i am here for 15 minutes at most, and then i am out of the town for a week. Even geeks have hollidays :) Szopen 15:46, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I have put a fragment of Torun Peace II from 1466 stating clearly that so called Royal Prussia became the PROPERTY of POLISH CROWN (state) and of Polish kings (not only of king Casimir). Translation is not good but you can check it with German version.Yeti 23:46, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Vilnius Page Protection

If this edit war continues, do you think that I should protect the article until a compromise is reached? Although one side seems to accept the compromise, both sides are volitale and I don't think I can count on that much longer if the other side contiues to reject it. I can only revert the page two more times today, after that my hands are tied in regards to the page for the duration of the day. -JCarriker 16:02, Jul 8, 2004 (UTC)

Prince-elector

Thanks for making corrections to the article. -- Emsworth 22:40, Jul 8, 2004 (UTC)

Congo-Brazzaville

John

I hope you don't find my update/format of the President list too disagreeable or contentious

regards --JohnArmagh 06:43, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I like the basic idea, although I think it looks awkward in places (especially the changing names of the country). john k 11:34, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Life Peers

It seems that various individuals have complained about articles on life peers not including the names of the baronies in the article titles. Current policy ("Life peers ... are generally mentioned by their personal name not title, because among other reasons a life peerage is often awarded at the end of a career, while the individual holding them may be far more widely known though their personal name, so use George Robertson, not Lord Robertson") is absolutely flawed and was never specifically approved, to my knowledge. But nothing has been done to fix the matter. Therefore, we appear to have certain courses of action:

  • Set up a poll (a not-so-great idea, in my opinion, given widespread misunderstanding about peerage dignities, complexity &c)
  • Just change article titles as necessary (similarly problematic, because people might arbitrarily start moving the articles back)

So, do you have any particular suggestions as to which plan should be adopted? -- Emsworth 22:59, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I say, change the policy (it has already been brought up on talk, and nobody has objected), and then change articles as you see fit. john k 06:18, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

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