Jump to content

Talk:Ish-bosheth

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is an old revision of this page, as edited by IZAK (talk | contribs) at 09:12, 13 August 2004. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Why is Ishbaal entered at this denigrating version of his name, which was plain Ishbaal, using the vowels of bosheth ("shameful")? That's not NPOV. Some dab would be illuminating Wetman 23:35, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

  • Spent some time digging into this issue and have provided extensive information from the primary sources themselves. IZAK 07:57, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
What would have happened if someone referred to him as "Ishbosheth" right in his own court? Instant death! Ishbaal or Ashbaal was his name, recorded in the degrading form "Ishbosheth" by the editors of Samuel, for he was an apostate, from their POV. Like referring to "Queen Fucktoria." Compare Moloch ("king") with the "bosheth" vowels, making Molech. Often a good first place to dig is the Jewish Encyclopedia. None of this should be mysterious. Wetman 08:02, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Jewish Encyclopedia, under "Bosheth":

Used concretely by the Prophets as "the shameful thing" to designate the Baalim and their images. (See Hosea ix. 10 and Jer. iii. 24, xi. 13, where the word is parallel with "the Baal" [compare Jer. iii. 24]). Later usage adopted the epithet to such an extent that "Bosheth" became a sort of euphemism for "Baal," as is learned from the proper names "Ish-bosheth" (with which Jastrow [see Bibliography] compares a Babylonian name, "Mati-bashti") and "Mephibosheth," the former being written "Esh-baal" in I Chron. viii. 33, ix. 39, and the latter occurring as "Meri-baal" in I Chron. viii. 34 and ix. 40. The manuscript of the Septuagint, known as 93 Holmes, has εἰσβααλ, and the old Latin version has "Isbalem" for "Ish-bosheth." So also in II Sam. xi. 21, "Jerubbe[o]sheth" is given for "Jerubbaal.""

In a phrase like "an ancient pagan idol Baal despised by God in the Bible" almost every word is obtuse or childish or misleading or just wrong. This is "Sunday School." Wetman 08:49, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

  • I do not know what you mean by "Sunday School"! Are you implying that only if one absolutely distorts the Bible as you illustrate on this talk page and write articles that are incomprehensible and completely unconventional and hostile to religion, then it's "not" "Sunday School" (by the way, I'm Jewish so I never went to Sunday schools) because that's just the way YOU like things to be and in fact merely reflect YOUR own POV masquerading as "npov" on Wikipedia. How can YOU speculate (and that is being kind) about what Samuel or Ish-bosheth may have or may not have said, merely by serving up a pot-pourie of contradictory citations? Just because YOU hate the Bible is no reason to make up your own "fairy tales" about it. YOU are not making any sense. Also, YOUR usage of foul-language (i.e "Like referring to "Queen Fucktoria".") is not appreciated. Thank you. IZAK 09:05, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ish-bosheth&oldid=5196454"