Talk:List of characters in Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater

What Happened to Major Zero?

Someone either deleted him for some reason (vandalism?) or he was never there. I dunno how this could've been overlooked, but someone ought to add Major Zero into the list of FOX members right now.

I'm noticing Ocelot is missing too.

They were both there, Zero in full and Ocelot as a link to his own page, must be vandalisum (The Bread 02:10, 21 April 2006 (UTC))[reply]

I've re-added Major Zero to the list. It might need some editing, but that's just me. (Mr. Mittens 12:47, 21 April 2006 (UTC))[reply]

Bogus Aliases

The "aliases" for the members of the Cobra Unit are not aliases. The ones here are just other names. Aliases are other known names/identities a character is known to go by. Not a description of the person.

Changed. TotalTommyTerror 18:19, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The Fury's nationality

The Fury was a Russian cosmanaut after he left the Cobras. Obviously only Russians are cosmonauts . I'm putting his nationality as Russian. Stop changing it.User:George

All of the official materials state that he only went to a space mission as a cosmonaut. That doesn't neccesarily means he's Russian by extension. I'm pretty sure that were foreign Cosmonaut in the Soviet space program too, although I'm not too sure. Likewise, you provided the "real names" for the Cobra operatives, but didn't bother citing your sources. If it's a magazine, please provide the exact issue number and page. Otherwise, it will be deleted. Jonny2x4 23:51, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

So early in the development of the soviet space program it is highly unlikely that any non-USSR cosmonauts went on any flights to space. secrecy was of utmost importance and many times both russian and the US turned down collaboration proposals due to fear of one stealing the others rocket technology, especially the soviet union in the earlly years of its space program since they had the undeniable lead in IRBM and ICBM technology. The fury is definately russian, otherwise he would be classified as astronaut if he were american. when russians go up into the international space station they are still to this day referred to as cosmonauts even here in america, hile the americans are referred to as astronauts, the only time a russian sace farer is referred to as astronaut that i have ever encountered is in the context of "russian astronaut"

"Soviet" is not the same as "Russian." Cosmonauts were all *Soviet*, but not necessarily Russian. Russians only made up about 51% of the population of the Soviet Union. He could be, for example, Ukrainian, Uzbek, etc, and still be a Cosmonaut (depending, of course, on when various areas became a part of the Soviet Union).

147.240.236.9 15:10, 10 April 2006 (UTC)Roy[reply]

Image Vandalism

Someone is enjoying his brand-new Wikipedia account and took it upon himself to change the picture of (female) The Boss with (male) John Moses, whoever the hell he is. Can someone fix this?

Fixed. NeverLogic 17:05, December 6, 2005 (UTC)

Images

Should they all be just the 3D ones, The "drawn" ones or, I have a large selection of ones with the 3d image and the drawn one in the background like such.... NeverLogic File:Volgin3ddrawn.gif

I've no opposition to this, sounds like a good way to go, as long as it doesn't break any rules to post them.72.151.125.2 06:49, 7 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

yes please use those pictures, there should be one for each character Solidusspriggan 07:11, 7 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for putting up those MGS3 images, the page looks really nice now. looks like you were adding them at the same time i was resizing them all to 200px. but were you trying to make them all 295px? sorry, just make sure they are all uniform. Solidusspriggan 00:01, 9 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Should I leave the Snake image like it is, or use the same format? --NeverLogic 00:20, 9 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Change the snake one too i think, It looks out of place and you cant actually see what the finished character model looks like (even though i have to admit, that concept sketch makes him look all badass) Solidusspriggan 00:23, 9 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Who and why did someone revert to the old images? --NeverLogic 02:41, 10 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

AS you already know, I did. Like I said, I personally don't like using images that are ripped straight from official sites, especially when one can find a higher quality version of the same image from press kits. It seems a bit unprofessional in my opinion and I prefer to do it when there's no other alternatives. I did changed the illustrations back to renders though, since that was your reasoning for the change and I agree that the renders are much better in terms of details (I only used the illustrations to be more inline with the other articles). Secondly, JPGs are much better for illustrations and renders that GIFs, especially since alot of these images were originally distributed in JPG format. Just compare the GIF renders you uploaded with the JPG renders that were previously here. There's really no contest. And finally, I think composite images are really redundant here, when they're basically different interpretations of the same idea. Those are my main reasons. Jonny2x4 03:04, 10 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I beleive that the 3d character model with yoji shinkawas art in the background looks much better than the renders that are there. Konami thinks this is how the characters sould be presented and I shall revert them back, it looks more asthetically sound and it is closer to the artists original intent.

What the heck do you mean "Konami's intents"? That's a pretty weak argument. Just because one thing is done in a certain style in Konami's website, doesn't mean that we should do the same.

Also, their website's presentation has NOTHING to do with the artist's intents. By your logic, we should use the hand-drawn illustrations only since they're the ones used in the instruction manual. Likewise for the renders, if you consider the Japanese manual which uses the renders instead of the Shinkawa illustrations in the character section. Ultimately, what the manual's editor or the webmaster decides to use and the artist's intention are two completely different things.

To me, it comes down to aesthetic tastes and using press kit images seems to be much better than ripping images from the official site and converting them to GIFs. Jonny2x4 05:26, 10 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

What do you think neverlogic? I like the previous images with Yoji Shinkawas art in the bg of the character models, do you agree? if so please revert to previous images. Solidusspriggan 05:43, 10 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with solidusspriggan. I didnt get them off the official website and convert them to gif. I got them of another site and they were already in .gif. We should use the ones i put up put someone should convert them to jpg if you have a problem with gif. --NeverLogic 17:05, 10 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The GOOD REASON here is that 3 out of the 4 people that have been involved in this edit war want them the way that Neverlogic and I want them, as does a fellow metal gear fan who is unregistered. you (johnny2x4) are the only one that keeps changing them and defending your position, please leave them how they are, your contributions otherwise are appreciated but leave the pictures. Solidusspriggan 21:24, 11 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, who's the fourth person? Anon users don't count for anything here. Second of all, the images are ripped off from the official website. Even if they're not taken directly from there, the fansite they were taken from obviously took theirs from the official site.

Regardless, Wikipedia IS NOT A DEMOCRACY (you of all people should know that). Majority votes don't count much for anything, espescially when it's only three persons. The reason why I opposed the your images is not only because they're ripped from the official site, it goes against the purpose of having an infobox. It's completely redundant to have a character's name spelled out in both, the image and the infobox. And frankly, it looks tacky that way. I don't know why you opposed using the clean (no background) images of the renders, when all the character infoboxes for the other lists does it that way. And to be honest, you're the only person who is still reverting to back to the composite images. Unless a GOOD reason is given, leave it the way it is, it's perfect. Jonny2x4 02:16, 12 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not change the content of my comments, that boarders on libel. Solidusspriggan 11:08, 12 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

reply

If you (solidusspriggan or whatever) had actually bothered reading carefully you'll notice that I DID NOT CHANGE ANYTHING IN YOUR COMMENT. All I did was provide a response. This is my last edit. To your left is what was originally posted and what is on the right is what I AND ONLY I ADDED.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AList_of_Metal_Gear_Solid_3_characters&diff=30999151&oldid=30968045

This was your edit. You removed a text of my originally message and then attributed my comment to yourself. If anything, it's you who's guilty of libel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AList_of_Metal_Gear_Solid_3_characters&diff=31037433&oldid=30999419

Please read MORE CAREFULLY BEFORE ACCUSING ME OF "LIBEL". Jonny2x4 13:37, 12 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for misreading, I just clicked "diff" and jumped to the conclusion that the only thing that had been changed was in red, which happened to be in a sentence that was similar to mine. Still, wikipedia IS NOT A DEMOCRACY appllies to the factual information in wikipedia, since facts are not determined by democratic process obviously. But opinion of images looking good or "tacky' is a matter of opinion and is up to democratic discretion. also, about the official site, the simple fact is, just because an image is used on an official site doesnt mean that was its origin. It is ery possible these images came from a number of other sources: presskits, artbooks, special content, etc. In the mgs2 char page we have the concept art up which looks quite nice, they are featured on the official site, but the origin of the material is yoji shinkawas concept art. Solidusspriggan 22:30, 12 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I was more talking about the general composition than the actual illustration itself. Images from press kits are usually completely clean and devoid of text. Also, why go for this:

File:The End.gif

When you can go for this:

It obviously has a higher resolution and more vibrant colors and render is pretty much given more emphasis over the artwork (which merely serves as background) in the composite image anyway.

it's far from perfect, could you please put up renders of granin and raikov since you have taken on the responsibility of dealing with the images. Solidusspriggan 02:59, 14 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Granin and Raikov were the only characters not to have renders or artworks during the release of MGS3. I'm guessing it because they were minor characters compared to Snake, et al.

Name and National changes

why did you change them back? also i put the thing bout radien as joke cos mgs is soo seroius half the time so i thought i'd lighten things up

it was kinda funny, but seriously you cannot put stuff like that on the wikipedia. It has to be encyclopedic

stuck up people gah, on sky news the report said "at the first donation the USA gave, they were called stigs from this tiny donation, this was changed soon" even big news casters can lighten things up, for christ sake MGS has jokes scattered thru it, and it deadly seroius.

Because those names are obviously fake and nobody has provide a legit source for them. Jonny2x4 18:23, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

sigint/donald anderson

Someone had changed sigints real name to donald anderson, it was changed back, but while maybe on the character info box it isnt appropriate, there should at least be some mention of the similarities, if you actually call certain ppl on the radio/codec at certain times throughout the game then it lets you in on information eluding to the fact that they are one in the same.

No, there's nothing to indicate that they're even actually related outside that they're both black and used to work for DARPA. Anything else is just fanwankery. Jonny2x4 18:25, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sigint/Anderson rant

Why is it that people still insist on posting the Sigint/Anderson speculation here? Not only does it have a weak basis for it, it's pretty much contradicted in the game itself, seeing how SIGINT and Anderson have obviously distinct facial features from Shinkawa's designs and more importantly, different personalities. Sigint, unlike Anderson, oppose the idea of nuclear weapons and even went on to tell Snake about his nightmare of a shit-made Metal Gear. Why would Sigint go on to produce a weapon resembling his nightmare forty years later? It's clearly proof they're different characters and that the speculation is baseless Jonny2x4 00:43, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hear, hear. Not only that, but if you call Sigint after talking to Granin, he pretty much redicules the entire idea behind Metal Gear: For example, he says that giving a tank legs would "make it less stable and increase it's frontal projection area" or something like that.

We never in Metal Gear Solid get to see ~~Sigint~~ DARPA Chief's personality. The Darpa Chief was already dead by the time Solid Snake arrived to Shadow Moses, as he was murdered by Ocelot by torture. We only got the see Decoy Octopus acting as him. So you cannot say they have different personalities as proof. Also, why would Hideo Kojima even state that Sigint joined ARPA? It wouldn't make sense to even includ such a strong connection to the Darpa Chief unless he was trying to say that they are one in the same. As for why Sigint would go on to make Metal Gear, he's a technology-geek. Maybe it got the best of him. ---JackRaiden

First of all, don't be stupid enough to refer the DARPA Chief as Sigint like it was a confirmed fact that they're the same. Alot of characters in the MGS series that never appeared in the same game had serve the same organizations, but that doesn't mean they're the same character.　It just so happens that Anderson and Sigint are both black. It's very typical of fanboys to take a single detail of a character's backstory and take it to the extreme by making millions of pointless speculations (i.e: Ames is actually Jackson, EVA is Gray Fox's mother). If we take every single fan-theory seriously, then wikipedia would become nothing but an encyclopedia of fanwankery. Jonny2x4 03:37, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just a second, Jonny2x4, I'm confused. "First of all, don't be stupid enough to refer the DARPA Chief as Sigint, as it is a confirmed fact that they're the same". Are you saying they're the same there? Is it confirmed? If so, where?

I'm saying they're not. READ MORE CAREFULLY NEXT TIME! Jonny2x4 22:12, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think he was reading carefully. Obviously, your statement "as it is a confirmed fact that they're the same" makes it look like you're saying that... it's a confirmed fact that they're the same. Maybe you meant "as it is not a confirmed fact" or "as if it is a confirmed fact". In any case, there's no need to overreact. - DoubleCross 23:47, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not overreacting. It's just that I added an unneccesary comma that confused alot of people. Anyway, another evidence that they're not the same. In MGA2, character cards such as the Gray Fox, Naked Snake and Ocelot tend to be upgraded into their futuristic counterparts such as Cyborg Ninja, Big Boss and Revolver Ocelot respectively. Yet, the Mr. Sigint card doesn't have an upgrade and the Donald Anderson card merely upgrades to Donald Anderson+. Jonny2x4 06:33, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

images 2

what happened to the image of paramedic?

You touched yourself at night so it went away. anonymous

Yevgeny Borisovitch?

Where exactly was it confirmed Volgin's name was Yevgeny Borisovitch? I don't remember ever hearing that.

His full name is stated in the game when he is first introduced. Musha 09:24, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The article simply cuts off

When you try to add more to the information about Volgin, the article simply won't put all in.

Has it something to do with "article size" or what is it?

Nothing major. It just happened that someone was really crappy in coding. Jonny2x4 00:09, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Volgin and Granin's nationality

Under Granin's nationality, it just says "USSR". In my opinion, this implies that Granin could be from any country in the Soviet Union. But isn't Granin's middle-name russian for "son of Leon" or something like that? If it is, doesn't this mean that Granin is russian?

Also, under Volgin's nationality, it simply says "Soviet Union".

As far as I can tell, Volgin is either from Russia, Pakistan or Afghanistan. Why?

Isn't Volgin's middle name russian for "son of Boris"?

Also, on the bridge in the Virtuous Mission, Volgin said "Welcome to my country...and to my unit."

Seeing as someone said on the Combat Talon, "Flying over Pakistan, altitude 30,000 feet. Approching Soviet airspace" and then that dude said "20 minutes to dropoff...", and seeing as a Combat Talon's top-speed is 300 mph (search for "Combat Talon" on Google and check a link to see for yourself), should'nt that mean that the Combat Talon had entered by about 100 miles if it flew by it's top-speed, does'nt that then mean that Tselinoyarsk is about around Afghanistan or something like that? And I don't think Snake would be able to already have gotten to Russia by the rope-bridge.

Judge for yourself: What is Volgin's nationalty?

I have changed Granin's nationality to Russian. I highly doubt he is anything but russian since his middle-name is russian.

Volgin ex-boxing champion?

According to the leaked MGS3 character sheet, Volgin is an ex-boxing champion.

Should this be added?

I mean, this article also says that The Fear's tongue was forked through surgery, and the only specific source for that which I know was the leaked MGS3 character sheet (ie, the only specific source for that The Fear's tongue was forked through surgery and that he wasn't born with a forked tongue).

Also, in my opinion, Volgin's fighting style seems like boxing.

So should the article say that Volgin is an ex-boxing champion?

I don't think so. Some of the things that are in that sheet have been changed, mainly Volgin's first name. -Mr. Mittens

But how about when Volgin beat up Snake to "make him pay for hurting Ivan"? In my opinion, that three punch combo to Snake's stomach was very alike boxing.

vandalism

isn't this vandalism? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Metal_Gear_Solid_3_characters&diff=39517089&oldid=39459777

ILovePlankton 01:14, 17 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, it's vandalism. Change it back ASAP.

Names

Can the names on the minor characters (Major Zero etc) be taken seriously? I assume that they are taken from the casting document that has names put down and a description of characters. However,

1: has this ever been comfirmed by Konami as an offcial document?

and

2: The fact that David Hayter had been added to the cast even before the game's completion, yet Naked Snake was a part that was on the casting document, makes the whole document very illegitimate in my eyes.

If someone could comment on the legitimacy of the names on the page, it would be appreciated. The Halo (talk)

I think they can be taken seriously. And I'm almost certain that they were taken from the leaked document. I mean, even though some small things from the leaked document were different from the finished game (like "Ephgeny Volgen" being changed to "Yevgeny Volgin" and Ocelot being 20 in the finished game instead of "late teens" as the leaked document says) most other things were pretty much dead on. If we were to change Zero's real name and such, where do we then draw the line? Like...the only source which I know of which state that The Pain is said to carry a queen hornet (the leaked document said that he used a queen bee, but I assume that has been changed to queen hornet) is the leaked document. And what's the source on The Fear's tongue being forked through surgery (and not that he was born with a forked tongue)? The only source I know for that is the leaked document. We may as well change all "only-source- is-the-leaked-document"-info to be speculative instead of labeling it as fact if we go by that logic.

Uh...Snake's real name is listed as Snake. That's obviously wrong. His real name is John (The Boss calls him Jack because Jack is a domesticity for John), which is under "aliases". Someone change that. 154.20.135.89 02:57, 20 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Pain's section

"He has the ability to control large swarms of hornets at will. He gained this ability by allowing hornets to sting him for days on and on for months at a time, until the hornets came to believe that he was one of their number."

Is this true or just speculation? I am talking about the whole "spending days and months getting stung by hornets until they believed he was one of them" thing. I have not yet seen an official source on this. Could someone please back this up with an official source if possible? I know that his face is covered with welts, but in my opinion that is not enough evidence suggesting that he should have used days and months getting stung by hornets to gain control over them. Unless there is an official souce, he may as well simply have chosen to be stung by hornets (for some reason) while he had full control over them.

About EVA disappearing in Hanoi in 1968.

Under EVA's section, it says that EVA disappeared in Hanoi in 1968. My point is that the timeline at the end of MGS3 only said that EVA disappeared in Hanoi in 1968, not whether or not it was the fake EVA (the agent for the Chinese branch of the Philosophers) or the real (male) EVA who defected in 1960. Should the article include speculation about whether or not it was the fake (female) EVA or the real (male) EVA who disappeared in 1968?

You from the Philosphers forums....someone asked about this there. Anyway, I dont think there's much need for a notice on speculation, because 1. We dont know Eva's real name 2. Why would they tell about about a character we dont know. But if you feel its necessary you could add it. -- Psi edit 23:21, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have edited EVA's section so it includes speculation about whether or not it was the real EVA or the fake EVA that disappeared in Hanoi in 1968. In my opinion, it should stay that way until someone provides an official source showing who it really was that disappeared in Hanoi in 1968.

The timeline in the ending is clearly an epilogue for each of the surviving main character (Snake, EVA, Sigint, Para-Medic, Major Zero). Why would they bother mentioned what happened to the "real EVA", when he was a none-character to begin with (the NSA codebreaker was just a cover). That's just being moronic! Jonny2x4 01:59, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

About Eva and Jack's child (maybe raiden or related in some form)

Frank Jaegar = Eva's Son

Frank Jaegar!? really... why?

Frank Jaegar isn't Eva's son, and Big Boss was sterile at the time of MGS3.

Wait, where in the game does it say this?

Either I haven't played the game enough times or I'm simply clueless, but I didn't find any references to The Boss being sent up into space for data or being in the Bay of Pigs incident. Similarly, a lot of the backstory on some of the other characters seems to be just speculation. Can anyone clear this up for me?--Offkilter 07:04, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The thing about The Boss being sent up into space for data and being in the Bay of Pigs invasion, The Boss SAYS SO while she tells Snake about her past in the Rokovoj Bereg flower field.

EVA's goggles

Perhaps I’m the only one, but i noticed that the way EVA wears her goggles round her neck resembles the way that Meryl from POLICENAUGHTS wears those goggles round her neck. Perhaps another reference to one of Kojima's earlier games