Talk:Charmed

Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived. If further archiving is needed, see Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.

Previous discussions:

• Archive 1 (20 Jul, 2004 to 19 Jun, 2005):
• Archive 2 (19 Jun, 2005 to 28 Nov, 2005):
• Archive 3 (3 Jan, 2006 to 22 Jan, 2006):
• Archive 4 (29 Jan, 2006 to 22 Mar, 2006):

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2006 April discussions

Trivia removed

Someone removed the whole Trivia section. I do not think it should be deleted just like that. Could someone please restore at least the important or most interestingpieces of trivia? AdamDobay 21:56, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

• Actually, I'm not sure the removal of the Trivia section is a bad thing... it looks like it was all moved to the Charmed Trivia page (linked within the Template), which is something I'd been considering recently as well. Maelwys 00:19, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
• Im the one that added that Section to the article, and yes, as above, it has been removed. At first, I kinda got angry and moved it back, but then somebody moved it back to the Trivia page once again, so Ill jsut leave it at that. :)

Season 8 DVD

The unknown poster who deleted the whole of the Trivia section also posted the following into the DVD section:

"However, there will be extras, and special features, for the Charmed Complete Season Eight DVD: [1]

"...Also new on the Charmed DVD front...there will be DVD extras on the Charmed Season Eight DVD's. Fans have been persistent and now have been rewarded!..."

Those are the exact copywrited words taken from the above website. The words do not belong to me. Therefore, if they violate any rules for Wikipedia, feel free to delete the respective portion.

End quote. It is only one thing that I do not understand why the third paragraph of this has to be there, but overall it is to be noted that thecharmedones.com is not an official information source and they have been wrong many times over the past. Thus I will change the section accordingly. AdamDobay 21:56, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

• Sorry, Im an unregistered user, and Ive been visiting that site a lot, and I though tit was a copywrited site, so feel free to get rid of it. Yes, I am that one that posted this, but Im not the person that deleted the whole Trivia section. In faCT, I added the Trivia section to this page, until it was moved to its own page. :)

Book of Shadows (Charmed)

This morning a link to this page was added into the template, bringing this page that I hadn't noticed before to my attention. Taking a look at it, it's basically a horribly formatted version of the recently deleted "List of Charmed spells" page. It has a bit of extra information (episode names), but aside from that is a major pain on the eyes to read. I see two options for how we can deal with this:

1. Remove all the spell information from the page, leaving just a basic description of what the BoS is.
2. Cleanup and reformat the whole page to look pretty and be more useful than either this page, or the old List of Spells page was.

Basically, the second route is to make this page into what some of us wanted the List of Spells page to become, had it survived the AfD. Either way we go, we'll need to move on it ASAP, or this page will also get AfD'd with the state it's in now. The only mystery is how it's survived 8 months like that... Thoughts? --Maelwys 15:10, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Charmed Cancelled

Charmed is a great show that i will miss because it is so awesome! Can someone please confirm that it WILL be cancelled in May? I'd really rather it not be.

• Yep, the series is as good as done. As mentioned in the article, the crew wrapped up their final day of shooting yesterday, so now we're just waiting for those last episodes to hit the screen and then it'll be all over. Enjoy your DVDs. --Maelwys 18:14, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Redoing DVD section

Because the length of the quotes connected with the Charmed DVD's are now almost longer than the general information of the show, I propose a large cut done in that area because now that the cards are laid out the whole thing can be summarized in a few sentences. If anyone needs the quotes I'll copy them here. AdamDobay 09:42, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

"... they've never contacted me, they've never asked my opinion, or to do extras, they've never contacted anybody. I've called, and I've had the head of publicity call, but there's been no response — no-one returns the phone calls. There's no advocate at Paramount that cares enough about Charmed that can say, “Hey guys, we should be doing this and it'll make us a ton of money.” The frustration is there isn't really anyone to talk to because of the unique circumstances we find ourselves in now. The fans need to inundate Paramount with letters saying, “We'll buy them!” (I think that's all Paramount cares about — making money) and then say, “We won't buy them if you don't [put extras on] because we already have the episodes on tape.” I feel frustrated and helpless, and there's no-one to talk to ..." [2]

"...Also new on the Charmed DVD front...there will be DVD extras on the Charmed Season Eight DVD's. Fans have been persistent and now have been rewarded! Many have asked me where I have gotten this info from...it was emailed to me from the production office. As to what the extras are, I assume they are interviews and commentaries. No bloopers at all, from what I know..."[3]

"CBS took over Paramount's TV title earlier this year, and that's been great news for fans that want to have extras. Paramount released most of their sets without any bonus materials, while CBS has created loads of featurettes and inlcuded commentaries for shows like CSI, Survivor, and The Amazing Race. Now Charmed will get the CBS treatment for season 8, which should be out around Christmas (it won't be out for a while, so please don't ask)."...

"Fans thought the mention of Season 8 having extras was a cruel April Fool's Joke when TheCharmedOnes.com posted the news on Saturday, but we heard rumblings last week as well. We checked with Brad Kern and he confirmed the news that Charmed will have extras on the eighth season. Obviously CBS got the message that fans wanted to see extras on their sets; TheCharmedOnes.com started a campaign, and we made a few well-placed calls. Brad was also very clear that he wanted extras on the set when we interviewed him a few months ago."...

"Season 8 is still many months away, but at least you know there will be some bonus material on the set."[4]

Charmed Infobox

I've created a Charmed characters infobox and applied it to Prue, Piper, Phoebe, Paige, Leo, Cole, Dan, Jenny, Darryl, Andy, Wyatt, Chris, Billie and Christy. The format should be viewable by clicking "edit" on any of the pages. It'd be nice if people could use the template for editing other characters, specifically ones who've been in more than one episode or are part of the Warren family. Toodles. Zythe 23:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

2006 May discussions

Marnette Patterson

People keep reentering Marnette Patterson as a supporting character. I would like to note that supporting characters in the show have been those characters who have appeared in at least most episodes of one season, AND are listed in the show's title sequence. So Season 8's Billie, or Season 6's Chris are supporting characters because they have been in the titles even though they've only been in one season, while Marnette Patterson is not a supporting character because she is not in the main titles and appears in much less than a full season. She is also not a recurring character because recurring characters are those which repeatedly appear in more than one season in the same role (by the way, Elise Rothman is missing from that list). If we were to include Christy in either Supporting or Recurring, on that basis characters like Zankou, Jason Dean, Gideon, Avatar Alpha, and at least two dozen other characters would be supporting. And they're not. AdamDobay 09:38, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Andy and Prudence (Charmed)

(Copied from article talk page.)

I'm considering nominating this article for deletion, as the information contained there is redundant to the articles Charmed season summaries, Andy Trudeau, and Prudence Halliwell. I'm hoping to learn the opinions of other editors before I proceed. Thanks. MiraLuka 00:09, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

• I've got no problem with seeing that article AfD'd. When I reworked the Prue article I think I worked in all the important stuff, so I don't really think that a 1-season subplot requires it's own page like that anymore. --Maelwys 10:42, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Make it redirect to Prudence Halliwell :) or just delete it Zythe 16:56, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I like that idea even better than deleting it. I've redirected it to Charmed season summaries though, I thought that would be better. :) MiraLuka 22:51, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Family Tree

I've been playing around with the family tree template and created this:

Penny Johnson

Allen Halliwell

Victor Bennet

Patty Halliwell

Sam Wilder

Prue Halliwell

Paige Matthews

Henry Mitchell

Phoebe Halliwell

Coop

Leo Wyatt

Piper Halliwell

Wyatt Matthew Halliwell

Christopher Perry Halliwell

Think this is worth including somewhere? It can either be put on each family member's page to show their place in the family, or just once on the List of Friends and Family page to show the overview... or not at all if people don't think it's even worth having around. Thoughts please? --Maelwys 12:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Its good, but shouldnt Coop be on there because he marries Phoebe in season 8. Ian42 19:26, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, I haven't seen that episode yet (since it's not on the air yet), so I haven't added that. Plus, I haven't figured out where to add it yet, since I'll have to rearrange things a bit to make it fit. ;-) --Maelwys 00:10, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Very nicely done. However, you should add Coop (Surname?), as well as Piper's, Phoebe's and Paige's future children (see "Kill Billie Vol. 2" and "Forever Charmed" - the two final episodes of the series). Also, so that it is complete, you should add Phoebe's first two husbands (Cole Turner and Dexter Lawson). In addition, why not add family that goes beyond Grams? Her mother was P. Baxter and her father, Gordon Johnson. P. Baxter had two cousins (therefore, her mother had two sisters - one of whom was Brianna Warren). The cousins were called P. Bowen and P. Russell (which was Brianna's daughter is unknown, although most likely P. Bowen, considering Brianna's close family traits to Prudence Halliwell and the fact that P. Bowen was Prue's past life). The three sisters' (including Brianna's)great-grandmother was Prudence Warren, great-great-grandmother was Melinda Warren and great-great-great-grandmother was Charlotte Warren. (This number of "great"'s is according to the spell in Season One's "The Witch Is Back" where Melinda was revealed to be the sisters' great(x6) grandmother). I hope this helps in extending the family tree, and helping to present the Charmed One's genealogy in an easier-to-read format. --Danny DeSio 13:30, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Victor Bennet(t)

There's been a lot of revert war recently over the spelling of Victor's last name. I approached the user that keeps spelling it with 1 t and asked for his source, and he pointed out that at the start of this season the spelling on Paige's license (since they're using his last name) is Bennet. I went looking at scripts, and in the episode that Piper gets arrested, her last name is in the script with 1 t as well. However, every site I can find that lists Victors last name (including tv.com and IMDB) lists it with 2 t's, which is the more common way to spell it (and the way that I'd been spelling it). However, since neither of those are official sources, and the only official sources that I've found so far (the props department and script writers) are using only 1 t, I think we'll have to revert everything back to only 1 t. But before going through and doing all that work I wanted to make sure it was clear with everybody the reasoning for doing that, so we don't just keep getting into revert wars here. --Maelwys 00:15, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know Victor is Bennet, not Bennett, but unfortunately I cannot provide you with an exact source outside of the official pages I've seen perhaps years ago. IMDB is not reliable on any matter unfortunately, so we will not know from that, but I say we go with Bennet beucase I've seen it spelt like that more times than not in official documents. AdamDobay 15:02, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

It is spelt with two ts. This is according to the offical Charmed guide book and the offical Charmed Magazines (alongside the not-so-reliable novels). Furthermore, basing this entire name change on the Charmed props is not a good choice, considering the fact that season 8 was plagued with mistakes (including Paige not remembering the fact that she vanquished the source, Phoebe remembering Cole's vanquish in an alternate universe, despite the fact that she (in her present form) was never there, and clearly shown not to remember that sequence of events during "Centennial Charmed", etc.). Furthermore, the prop team on Charmed is hopeless. For instance, the family tree they had written up had more mistakes that I have effort to write down. Lets not forget the mass of continuity errors Charmed has. It is practically famous for them. In additional to this, the Charmed scripts located on the internet, have absolutely no connection to the actual Charmed team, hence they are transcrips (transcribed lines by the fans who, through only hearing the lines, would never be able to know how many t's Bennet(t) has). So, if this massive edit on Wikipedia is down to two very minor props, in a show (and, inparticular a season) which prides itself on contiuity errors (visit any Charmed website for a gigantic list of errors - especially "The Demons Jumble") then your argument seems to have little reliabilty (said with all due respect).

Olympic god 14:17, 19 May 2006 (GMT)

Okay. But can we say then, perhaps, that it's spelt both ways? AdamDobay 13:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

How would that even make sense, though? The scales balance on the side of two t's. This major change in his name is all down to one fake (may I remind everyone) identity card held by Paige and fan transcriptions, without any research into the offical companion (created with the assistance and support of Brad Kern, Aaron Spelling, Duke Vincent etc.), the offical Charmed Magazine and the offical WB and Paramount websites. This change seems to me as an overstatement. If we corrected everything according to the endless continuity errors, then Paige was actually not around during 'Charmed and Dangerous' (Season 4) - that must have been a clone or someone glamoured to look like her - Cole never died in an alternate reality, he was vanquished in the normal plane, despite the fact that Season Five force-fed us the story of how unvanquishible he was on the normal physical plane; Grams never raised the Charmed Ones, because she died before their birth (a la family tree); Patty died in February while at SUMMER camp (a la That '70s Episode & P3H20); Victor's full name is Victor Jones-Bennett-Halliwell; Cole was born in 1888 AND 1902 (a la 'Coyote Piper' & 'Centenial Charmed')and so on. This change was an ill thought out one. Olympic god 14:17, 19 May 2006 (GMT)

Yeah, change it back if you can. Even though it's over... Zythe 00:20, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, we should change it back to two t's. So will anybody?--Danny DeSio 10:07, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Charmed Wiki

I dont know about everyone else, but i think that someone should make a Charmed Wiki. Theres a Star Wars one, Lost one, Star Trek, why not Charmed? If anyone has any free time that is! - Ian42 19:26, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

• Wiccapedia perhaps, the Charmed Encyclopedia! - Ian42 18:18, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

• I think there's enough info on it here that it'd just be a duplication of work. How much extra stuff would appear on that Wiki that doesn't already appear here? --Maelwys 22:10, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

• Well, there is a lostpedia[5] why not a Charmed one, Charmed has been running for longer. - Ian42 21:30, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

• That doesn't really answer my question. ;-) Lostpedia exists because it's a place to put all the speculation, guessing, and theories that don't belong here, because they're not encyclopedic. Charmed doesn't have quite the same level of stuff going on. Most of the information I could think of that I'd want on a "Wiccapedia" is already right here, so why bother duplicating the work to create it all again? --Maelwys 23:24, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

• Actually, I'd suggest starting a Charmed Wikiproject if you are interested in this. —MiraLuka 00:34, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• Yeah, I considered starting a Wikiproject a while back, but then figured that the scope wasn't quite big enough that having it as a project would really be that helpful. Most stuff that'd get discussed on a project page just gets discussed here instead, with this page being the central hub for discussions dealing with anything Charmed... it's been working like that pretty well so far, so can probably stay that way at this point. Especially since the show's basically done, and then the amount of stuff available to contribute will start to drop drastically. --Maelwys 02:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• With a little bit of searching, I found a Charmed wiki. It doesn't look like much work has been done on it, though. —MiraLuka 01:02, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• Yeah, that's the same problem I find with most offshoot wiki's... it's a much smaller audience, so much less useful information available because there's a lot less editors and people check it a lot less often. Here at least we can hit more people, so get more help, and even if I forget to check some of the other wiki's that often, I'll probably be here every day, so I'm more likely to contribute something useful. --Maelwys 02:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Book of Shadows (Charmed) x2

Please visit Talk:Book of Shadows (Charmed) and contribute to the discussion on the future of that article. Thanks. MiraLuka 22:14, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

The Finale section

Do we really need a separate section for the finale? I think not. Partly because what happens in it should go into the article for the episode, and partly because the rest of what is in there is not crucial. Besides, I looked it up and Shannen Doherty met Rose McGowan four years ago, not this year, so that part is to be removed anyway. What do you think? AdamDobay 10:41, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I tend to agree. I don't mind having some trivia about the finale on the main page (the info on filming dates ending the series, etc) but having that there tends to invite other people to add episode synopsis and other stuff we don't want. So it's probably better to move what's there now into the Trivia section on the episode page, and off the main page. --Maelwys 11:24, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Persistent problems

Some person keeps adding extra powers to Chris Halliwell's infobox. Also, please refrain from entering spoilers from the last episode into the infoboxes. This means please don't add Melinda Halliwell, Henry Jr. Mitchell, Matthew Halliwell, Cooop and Phoebe and Paige's daughters into the "family" sections. Zythe 21:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to add

Template:User charmedfan to your userpages, and PLEASE feel free to make it more aesthetically pleasing. Zythe 21:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Nice idea, but it's too pink for my tastes. :) AdamDobay 22:02, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Grr

If you see someone's added a list of powers a character had in a singular episode, such as "Shadow Leo", "Hindu Piper", "Goddess Phoebe" etc., please revert those changes. They're from singular episodes and don't reflect the character as they stand at present. If you were to look at the bio pages for Marvel Comics characters eg. Jean Grey, Wolverine, Northstar etc. they only have the chatacters current powers. Not included are say, the ones where they received temporary powers.Zythe 19:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Requested move at Barbas, the Demon of Fear

There has been a request to move Barbas, the Demon of Fear to Barbas (Charmed). Please share your opinion at Talk:Barbas, the Demon of Fear Thank you. —MiraLuka 06:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Titles of episode articles

I just noticed that the titles of all of the articles for individual Charmed episodes have a capital "E" in their title. (see Forever Charmed (Charmed Episode) for an example) By Wikipedia standards, these articles should have a small "e" in the title. I almost started going through and changing them all, but I just want to be sure that I won't get reverted first. Thanks. —MiraLuka 08:14, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Sounds fine. Thumbs up! :) AdamDobay 09:00, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, good plan. --Maelwys 20:38, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I'll start work on it soon. —MiraLuka 01:09, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Unless I missed any, I'm done now. —MiraLuka 07:07, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Requested move at Charrrmed (Charmed episode)

There has been a request to move Charrrmed (Charmed episode) to Charrrmed! (Charmed episode). Please share your opinion at Talk:Charrrmed (Charmed episode) Thank you. —MiraLuka 03:54, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Trivia AFD

Just a headsup that the Charmed Trivia page has been listed for AfD. Discussion on it is taking place here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maelwys (talk • contribs) 25 May 2006

Charmed recent changes

I recently created a page at User:MiraLuka/Charmed recent changes. It contains a listing of all of the articles in Category:Charmed and its subcategories. If you go to the page and click the "Related changes" link to the left (or just click here), it works like the recent changes page, but only for Charmed-related articles. I hope this is of some use. —MiraLuka 02:13, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Number of viewers

The information on the number of viewers for "Forever Charmed" keeps getting changed back and forth between 4.49 million and 4.98 million (although someone has now changed the number on this page to "about 5 million"). Does someone have a source that will fix this craziness? —MiraLuka 19:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

The confusion stems from the fact that there were numbers announced for the overnight ratings, there were numbers announced for the fast nationals and there are yet other numbers that were said to be final ratings. The following versions are present:

• Nielsen Media Research (published in Mediaweek) says it is 4.23 million (3.7/6; 1.8/5 adults).
• Fast National ratings report says 2.7/4, no number of viewers.
• Casahalliwell.it and Television Without Pity reports 4.98 million, but these numbers were released before the official announcement of the final numbers.
• Finally, ABCMedia.net reports 4.49 million (#74).

From this we can conclude that the final viewer figure is 4.49 million. AdamDobay 21:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thank you very much. —MiraLuka 22:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Article Clean-up

Okay, so I'm off uni for the summer. I just thought it'd be really awesome if we could improve/clean-up this article (it's pretty good already, but everything can always be refined, right?) in the hopes of it become a featured article. Anyone up for helping out? We can make a list of stuff we aim to achieve, blah, blah. Binthemix 03:40, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd be interested in helping however I can. —MiraLuka 04:09, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

2006 June discussions

Matthew

Many people have posted that a boy named Matthew, as seen in the flash-forwards, is Piper's and Leo's grandson. However, I very much doubt this and, thus, think that an edit of any mention of the Halliwell's being related to him. Here's why:

In Leo's lesson, it appoears as though he is encouraging all his students to tele-orb the book, as all the students put their hands up. He only happened to chose that boy, Matthew, at random. So, if you believe that Matthew must be related to them because he can tele-orb, I find that very unlikely. Leo himself said "Who would like to try it first?", therefore they could all tele-orb. Furthermore, considering that Leo is going grey in that scene, Matthew would be too young to be his son (if anyone was thinking that), but considering that he was nearly the same age as Piper's and Leo's granddaughter (with telekinesis) when Piper and Leo were very, very old, then Matthew would, at that time, be nearly 20 and far too old to be their grandson. If you do the Maths, their is absolutely no way Matthew can be their grandson.

In the script it said he was their oldest grandson. Zythe 20:03, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Future Daughter

Throughout the Charmed section of Wikipedia, people have written that Piper, in the future, will have a daughter named Melinda. Now, I can see so many errors with this, that I believe all information on "her daughter" should be removed or edited. It appears that she is instead Phoebe's daughter:

1) The shooting script names the young girl (who Piper gives a lunchbox to, alongside her two sons) as Melinda. According to the Offical Charmed Magazine (Issue 8), the young girl and Phoebe's daughter (seen in her premonition during "8x09 Hulkus Pockus")was/is to be called Melinda.

2) During the Season Seven episode "Witchness Protection", Phoebe (through Kira the Seer) recieves a vision of her taking home her daughter (Melinda - according to the Offical Charmed Magazine), and Piper's two sons (Wyatt and Christopher). Therefore, it seems very likely that if Phoebe is able to collect the three children from school, that Piper is able to send the three to school. It seems very likely that the writers wished to show reference to the first time we saw Melinda and how she was coming home from school with her two elder cousins.

3)We can see that if Wyatt and Melinda were to go to school together, they would be very close. We can observe this in "Imaginary Friends":

FUTURE (GOOD) WYATT: Aunt Phoebe ... I think you should hold onto that

imaginary friend's paper of yours.

PHOEBE: Why?

FUTURE (GOOD) WYATT: For my little cousin.

4)During the flash-forward to when we see Piper handing 'Melinda' a bag or a lunchbox, the voice-over says: "Not just to [Paige's] own children, or to mine {here we see Piper handing Wyatt a lunchbox}, or to Phoebe's {Piper is just about to give a lunchbox or bag to Melinda}..."

5)The actress who plays Melinda is the same one who plays one of Phoebe's daughters earlier on the flash-forwards (where she is with her sister and Billie), as well as in "Hulkus Pocus" where she plays Phoebe's daughter, who, in the episode, is named Melinda (according to the Offical Charmed Magazine) and is now again (in "Forever Charmed") named Melinda (according to the shooting script). The actress is Sierra Paris.

6)Why would Piper, during her voice-over, miss out a vital and extremely important aspect of her future as having another child. Moreover, if she did have a daughter, the importance would have been president considering that when she went to the future in 1999, she had a daughter, and when she was pregnant, she expected on having a daughter ("Prudence Melinda Halliwell"), therefore mentioning the birth of a daughter she had long expected would have been very important.

7)The shooting script names the little girl as Melinda (as I have abovementioned). When Piper was pregant with Wyatt, and expecting a daughter, she was planning to name her/him Prudence Melinda Halliwell. Therefore, if she did have a daughter should she not have Pruence as her first name, apposed to Melinda?

8)During all the scenes with Wyatt and Chris, neither of them mention having a sister. If the writers had indeed decided to give Piper a daughter, would Wyatt and Chris have not mentioned it (even in a humorous way). We know that Wyatt is not able to easily hide the future ("Uncle Coop?" - Forever Charmed, "Before or after [Chris] swallowed the marble?" - Imaginary Friends), so would he not have said something along the lines of: "I guess 'Prudence/Prue/Melinda' hasn't been born yet...oops!". Furthermore, when we view the forward-flash to when Wyatt and Chris are making a potion, or to when we view the photograph of the two of them on the staircase, wouldn't their sister (if they really had one) help them make a potion or appear in the family photograph with them?

9)When Piper and Leo are elderly, they will have at least five grandchildren (or, a total of five grandchildren AND great-nephews/neices), that is two boys and three girls (including the granddaughter with telekinesis). This ratio is identical to the naumber of children both Piper and Phoebe have (two sons - Wyatt and Chris - and three daughters - Melinda and her sisters). This number of grandchildren may have been purposely chosen to mirror this.

Therefore, all the detailed research I have conducted leads me to believe that the girl seen going to school with Wyatt and Chris is in fact Phoebe's eldest, and prophecised daughter - Melinda (as is portrayed by Sierra Paris ("Hulkus Pocus", "Forever Charmed"), Sierra Parks ("Witchness Protection") and Adair Tishler ("The Jung and the Restless" -- playing a dream version of what Phoebe wants her daughter to look like)). Therefore, I believe we need an edit of all sources that say that Piper has a dughter named Melinda (including the Piper Halliwell Biography, the Piper Halliwell Factbox, the 'Forever Charmed' Summary, the Melinda Halliwell-Wyatt biography, etc.)

--Danny DeSio 11:03, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, some thoughts to this.

In the 8.22 flashforward where we see Phoebe heading off presumably to the hospital (tummy and all), we see two girls, who are not more than one year apart. We also know Phoebe lives downtown with Coop, not close to the Manor. Thus it is strengthened why we see Billie as a nanny to the two kids, and not, say, Piper. When we see Piper sending the kids off, we can perhaps say from the setting that the kids are being sent off to school, so it is morning. Why would Piper take care of only one of Phoebe's children? We've seen Phoebe's two daughters, not much from each other in terms of age.

I would also have to add that the message of the flashforwards, in accordance with the power of three handed down to the next generation, was that everyone, in the end, had three children.

As for Wyatt and Chris, I would have to attribute the 'missing sister' problem to the decision between strengthening the notion that everyone had three kids (something emphasized quite clearly in the flashforwards), or tying up the storyline between Chris and Wyatt, something already mentioned in 7.20 but not strong enough, there was a need to see Chris and Wyatt side by side as they had their own personal conflict which had to be seen as resolved. Their relationship is the one reflected in the ending flashforward and the photo, and it would complicate matters to put a girl next to them, first of all, one more adult character to an already tight budget, but even more implrtantly, we see the photo and the Wyatt & Chris making a potion scene for four seconds. Putting a yet unknown character in there has to take several more seconds to be understandable for the audience, as well as raising confusin: is this a sister or a girlfriend or someone else? To tidy that up you need one more, even if short, plotline, and at least half a minute. Given the insane number of plotlines already covered in the finale, I think it would be a wise decision to drop a further one.

Finally, from a structural point of view: in a general, highly condensed summary of the future which is not more than two or three minutes, would the show's creators really create a structure this complex? Based on American television series standards and on the professionality (ie. they are not amateur filmmakers) of the team that is putting the story together, would it not be more probable that we are seeing image sequences of the futures of three families? The physical settings are distinct -- The Manor for Piper and Leo, the Condo for Phoebe and Coop, the Police Station for Paige and Henry (as there was no 'Henry's apartment' set built), and all of the characters are distinct. Would it happen that one character jumps a setting? If this were so, it would be a very large writing mistake.

Just my two cents. AdamDobay 12:13, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I understand that the addition of an adult sister would have been confusing and that we needed to view the good relationship between Wyatt and Chris. Yet, how does one explain the fact that Piper failed to mention that she had a daughter, when Phoebe and Paige both clearly highlighted their children. Furthermore, why would she, a daughter, make such a brief appearence with no real introduction? Why would the same actress be used to portray her? Why would she be given the same name as Phoebe's daughter? Why isn't she named after the original name chosen by Piper - Prudence? Why wasn't she in any of the photographs on the wall (especially considering how many baby photos there were of Wyatt and Chris), and if your answer consists of the confusion, is it not more confusing to have a girl hanging out with Wyatt and Chris (in the lunchbox scene) than in family photo? It seems as though, if she is a daughter, she was completely ignored by Piper and ignored by the family when it came to having her (baby?) photo's on the wall and inored by her brothers. It seems more likely that she is Phoebe's daughter and that everyone is blowing this out of proportion...

Furthermore, the reason Billie was babysitting Phoebe's daughters was due to the fact that they want somewhere to show that Billie is in their future, not because she is prefered to Piper or Paige. Additionally, wouldn't Phoebe (as she is about to go into labour in that shot), want her sisters with her while giving birth, instead of them babysitting.

Piper never said she had a daughter, no matter how much we may have wanted Melinda Halliwell-Wyatt, or how ever much we would have liked the Charmed Ones to each have three children, therefore she never really had one (that, or she has abadonment issues - a mother would never forget her daughter the way Piper did if she really did have one). --Danny DeSio 12:38, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

We don't know if she wasn't in any photograph on the wall. There are a lot of pictures on the wall which we are not shown. On the first shot when old Leo and Piper go up the stairs we have the picture of Grams in the middle and the picture of Patty & Victor in the top right corner. In the bottom right corner it is safe to assume that there is a photo of Piper and Leo holding Wyatt (from a scene in 5.20). What's on the rest of the pictures? On the top middle picture, above Grams, there is a large photo of a baby and we have no idea who that is, we have five photos in a frame in the top left corner, the only recognisabe from which is the picture with Paige's twin girls as they have the same pink outfit they had in the police scene. Furthermore, there are even additional pictures we do not get to see in the episode itself but are there. Another fan outcry was the fact that we, in a similar manner, do not see a picture of Prue, not of Shannen Doherty (not applicable due to copyright reasons) and not even of a kid Prue.

I'm not sure about the names, I mean Melinda and Prudence are quite popular in the family, and as we have seen all throughout the series, the future changes every time and we are not filled in on details like what Piper would like to call her daughter and whether that changed.

From all the things I said above I still assume that it is Piper's kid mostly becaiuse I think that if Piper sent Phoebe's kids off to school, it would be pointless to have only one of Phoebe's kids there considering the age difference I mentioned above, it just complicates matters too much and I think the writers wouldn't have done that. Of course I may be wrong so I say that we should wait with this until the next Charmed Magazine issue which, from what I remember to have been written as the contents of the next issue, may deal with clearing up the future of the story. If this problem is not cleared there we should get back to this but until that we should, I think, not alter all the pages of the Charmed article-dom. AdamDobay 13:02, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I still believe that the little girl is Phoebe's daughter. However, your idea to wait until the next magazine issue sounds the safest option so far. --Danny DeSio 13:09, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

The script specifically said she was Piper's third daughter.

There we go. Thanks for clearing that up Zythe. AdamDobay 20:46, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the original script had Piper saying that she would have the daughter she always wanted. However, that particular line was chosen to be scrapped by the writers. Furthermore, they added an addition scene with adult Wyatt and Chris making a potion, while Piper said something along the lines of: "...the time when our children could take over [making potions/fighing demons] so that I could...open the resturaunt I always wanted to...". Therefore, a daughter was originally written in, however, she was then deleted and an additional scene of Wyatt and Chris was added with Piper clarifying that they are her only children and that they would carry on the Halliwell legacy. The script was specifically changed. --Danny DeSio 21:14, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I do not see, in the final episode, a clarification that Piper had no additional children. There may be an _absence_ of a daughter (although as I said before I think the lunchbox scene is meant to show that she indeed had one), but I have yet to see an actual sentence that _emphasizes_ that she had no further children. AdamDobay 22:25, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

It was Phoebe's daughter (probably her oldest). Because when Phoebe has that vision it shows Wyatt, Chris, and the girl (phoebe's daughter) coming out of school, and phoebe is talking to her child about the avatars.

Plus, if piper and leo were meant to have another kid (esepecially the girl piper saw in the future) piper would have mentioned it when she was talking. There are also a lot of other things that do not add up piper and leo having a daughter. They just had Wyatt and Chris. How could it be Pipers? It's the same kid who played Phoebe's and, plus, Piper never mentions having another one. I think that would be alot more important to know than her opening a restaurant. She had been waiting for years for that kid. And for those who say that each sister should have three children: Paige wouldn't have even had three if she didn't get twins, so Phoebe would have been the only one. Having the twins is a fluke. Plus, there are four sisters (including Prue), so why should this whole 3 thing only happen to last three Charmed Ones? Plus, Danny DeSio is right, the script was changed and they did add the part with adult Wyatt and adult Chris, while Piper said: "when our children could take over". Their daughter would have been included here, but the writers decided that Leo and Piper wouldn't have one. Janice10:44, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

It has finally been confirmed. The WB (through their "wpix New York" website), have written a full review for the episode "Forever Charmed". In it, the WB write: "Piper happily helped take care of everyone's kids and finally opened a restaurant, while Chris and Wyatt prepared to take over the family demon-fighting business." We can, therefore, take the "Piper happily helped take care of everyone's kids" as a reference to the now-so-called 'lunchbox' scene, and the "while Chris and Wyatt prepared to take over the family demon-fighting business", as a hint that they are the two heirs of Piper's magical legacy (apposed to Wyatt, Chris AND a daughter). Thus, I believe we should correct all articles which claim that Melinda will be Piper's daughter. Here is a link to the website. --Danny DeSio 22:25, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

That doesn't really confirm anything either way. —Mira 23:00, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

That is not an official statement, that's someone from the WB's New York division watching the episode and typing it in (and while we're at that, TheWB had messed up even official plot summaries during the sweeps period, so they're not final word, the crew and writers are). And, I still do not understand why Piper would send only ONE of Phoebe's then two kids to school, please someone provide me with a good reason for that. I still say we wait for the creators' word on this. AdamDobay 23:06, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

On Fox?

who erased the paragraph about the Fox renewing the series for two more years? actually who wrote it? i can't find it anywhere else on the web. it's not on the offical fox web site. oh pllleease be true!