Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Peru

Clean-up

In an effort to help make things more easily understood, I'm cleaning up the Peru talkpage. I am not editing comments, but I am moving them around in format to clean them up a bit. I have removed a few sections that are out-of-date and useless, but if you feel they should be brought back, please copy past the section of interest, but do not revert this clean-up. If you have any comments or concerns, please contact me on my talkpage. Thanks! Pvt Mahoney 00:16, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bmahoney, I didn't know my request for comments on the History of the Ecuadorian-Peruvian territorial dispute article was "out-of-date" or "useless". On the contrary, you deleted an entire section about an article which needed to be locked and is in urgent need of attention, and should be there so other Peruvian wikipedians interested in history who come to this Wikiproject know about the issue. Could you please put the section back again? Thanks. Andres C. 01:15, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

List of political parties in Peru

There is an edit dispute on this page. Possibly some people of the Wikiproject may be interested in putting in their two cents.--Jersey Devil 11:22, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:PeruPresidents

I just created it right now. I copied the list strait out of the "List of Peruvian Presidents". Please check for any careless mistakes I may have made in order or spelling. Also, why isn't Haya de la Torre in the List of Presidents? It's true that he never served because of rapid military coups but he was elected twice and other short "interm" Presidents are mentioned in the list. Shouldn't he be there? (I just left him out because he wasn't on the list).--Jersey Devil 20:41, 4 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've made some corrections to the name on this template. Still it seems to me there are some names which should be removed from the list. I'll check my sources before making further changes. As for Haya de la Torre he was elected only once, in 1962, but since he didn't get 50% of the valid votes, the constitution mandated that Congress should pick the new president. Before this, the armed forces staged a coup de état, so Haya de la Torre was never president of Perú. --Victor12 23:42, 4 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well then, the Víctor Raúl Haya de la Torre article is deeply flawed then.--Jersey Devil 23:53, 4 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually it clearly says However, he continued to live mostly abroad until 1962. He ran for president again, obtaining victory by a slim margin but not enough to be constitutionally elected. What's wrong is the intro. I'll edit it up. As for the article as a whole it clearly needs major improvements. --Victor12 00:54, 5 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Haya de la Torre claimed to be the real winner of the 1931 elecctions, but the Electoral Authorities named Sanchez Cerro the winner. He did not achieve the presidency, but the Partido Aprista Peruano named him the Moral President of Peru. Not enough to be Constitutional. Regarding the Election of 1962, he was never sworn into office, since the military ousted Prado. Prado was still the Constitutional President of the Republic at that time. Thus, the was never appointed to the office, and the highest government post that he ever held was the Presidency of the Constitutional Assambly of 1979.

Also, I have added Fujimori to the list. I wonder why he was left outside the list. Messhermit 02:50, 5 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We may have to start a debate and fix the list, since there were several Interim Presidents. Most of the time their authority was not beyond the capital city. I believe that we should depurate the list a little bit.Messhermit 02:59, 5 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I would guess some "antifujimorista" just decided upon his or her self that he shouldn't be on the list (damn POV hawks) and I just didn't notice. Anyway, yeah, I just put those interim Presidents in because they were on the list. There should be some kind of discussion. Personally though I think would still keep them if they did in fact hold the Presidency for even a small period of time regardless of the time/influence. The important thing was just to get this long over due template done.--Jersey Devil 17:04, 5 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

hello everyone, I'm a Peruvian graduate Anthropology student on Andean studies in New York, I feel the history section is really a shame, Peru has one of the longest histories in the world, and to have the history section start with only the Inkas or the Spanish conquest ignores a rich history 3000 years old. I added to the history section, and it was deleted, the chavin, moche, chimu, huari and most importantly caral supe civilization was deleted, please explain how this should not be part of the history of Peru, if not more important than the colonial and post colonial history. peru has a mixture of cultures, not just spanish, it has an indigenous culture that needs to be recognized.

Maybe if you got out from behind that ip address and signed up, you'd be more believeable... And on the other hand, this page doesn't have everything about peru there is... in fact, it links to sub-pages that have more indepth articles about specific sections... that is why not everything is told about on just this page alone.--User:Bmahoney

IN RESPONSE TO JERSEY DEVIL - - - AND TO EVERYONE ELSE ON THE PERU WIKIPROJECT: I'd be happy to become a member of this wikiproject, I'll be working on ancient peruvian history (before any spanish influence) and modern peruvian culture, especially Quechua/Andean, these areas need A LOT of work, and I think the group could use the help of a graduate student in andean anthropology and dissapearing cultures, my member name is Artur Rubinstein, and I'm looking forward to working with everyone here, see ya soon. ARTUR RUBINSTEIN

We are idiots

I just realize that we went all this time with out adding soccer/football related articles to the Wikiproject! :)--Jersey Devil 19:22, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

lol, but is that important? I think History is far more interesting that sports (at least for this moment) Messhermit 20:18, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly, but it is neccessary to at least have the articles listed on the WP. I'll put them up later. Tired right now...--Jersey Devil 22:52, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rondas Campesinas

I'm not even a member of this project, but I really dislike the state of Ronda Campesina. The vast majority of the rondas were formed during the early 70s and had nothing to do with the MRTA/SL internal troubles. The article doesn't reflect that. As Orin Starn mentioned in his book about the Rondas, during the 80s there were several hundred thousand ronderos in Peru, and only maybe ten thousand senderistas. Yet American socialogists and political scientists have focused on Sendero as the social movement in Peru. The rondas were just as interesting, too, as they formed extra-judicial courts, clashed with the authorities at some times and worked with them at others, greatly reduced the number of thieves in the country side, and at times engaged in very questionable behavior. --Descendall 14:48, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe what you are saying is true, but the most prominent role that they achieve was during the 80's and 90's: Supported by the government, they fought against Sendero and MRTA. Also, we must remember that as the article says, there were some parts of the country were the government was not present. Thus, it is reasonable to believe that they executed justice by their own hand against Sendero And MRTA. Messhermit 18:45, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The anti-Sendero groups that called themselves Rondas had nothing to do with the bulk of the Ronderos. The Ronda Movement was largest in Cajamarca, which had little Sendero activity. It had been active there since the early 1970s, well before the Shining Path came onto the scene. The article should probably be as long as Shining Path, with maybe one sentence saying something to the effect of "peasants who organized against the Shining Path were also known as Rondas Campesinas."--Descendall 19:49, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree, since it will try to diminish the role and impact that those groups have in the war against Sendero and MRTA. Also, regarding the name, most of the country recognise the term Rondas Campesinas with that meaning. Here is a link [1] that more or less integrates them to the rule of law, while this link [2] explains the fundamental role that they had in the defeat of Sendero. Messhermit 22:45, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that the anti-subversive groups basically stole the name of the much larger Rondero movement. The Congress of Rondas had absolutely nothing to do with fighting Sendero. Ronderismo was a totally organic movement by villiagers that focused primarily on cattle theives and drunks. Some of them were co-opted by the Maoists in FOCEP and Patria Roja, but the vast majority of them were politically neutral. The anti-sendero rondas weren't organic like this -- they were basically groups of peasants who had old shotguns thrown at them by the government in a deperate attempt to crush Sendero. Now, I totally agree that these groups had a huge impact on the war (Sendero died because the "masses," to use their old Marxist terminology, turned against them), but I think that belongs in the atricle on Shining Path. The Rondas were a huge social movement during the 70s, much bigger than Sendero ever was during the 80s, and I think they deserve an article just as long if not longer than the one that Sendero currently has. My problem is that the only sources I know on the rondas are one book (Nightwatch by Orin Starn, which I have read) and one fictionalized movie (Rondas, which I have a bootleg copy of on DVD but I am unable to play because it's coded for a South American DVD player and I'm currently in North America). I don't think that we disagree on much, just where the empahsis should be -- the larger ronda movement that stopped banditry in Northern Peru, or the smaller ronda movement that at least helped weaken Sendero in Central Peru.--Descendall 22:54, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Then maybe we should divide the article into North and South, don't you think? Maybe with that we can more or less present both meanings of the word. Messhermit 03:09, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Problem on Wikipedia

I am currently experiencing a problem with another editor on Wikipedia. I know that this doesn't directly involve Peru-related articles but it prevents me from focusing much of my time on these articles. You are welcome to comment on my talk page about this (and naturally I do not expect you to automatically take my side nor do I want you to do so).--Jersey Devil 23:09, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ecuadorian issue

Unfortunately for the Peruvian proyects, we are in the constant treath of POV warriors. This time, a irresponsable and clearly Ecuadorian POV pusher has now declare himself the owner of the article History of the Ecuadorian-Peruvian territorial dispute. So far I have manage to keep it on hold, but this person keeps reverting every single correction (wich involve removing his BIASED editions).

I'm asking for a neutral and independent opinion from other wikipedist, since the behavior of this Ecuadorian POV pusher is going to far. He was responsable for a Flame war a couple of months ago against my person. Messhermit 22:45, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry if this sounds rude at all, but why, on earth, would you post this here? This is an entirely unintelligent choice of action. I understand that there is a dispute, and I am willing to help talk with you and the other person, but I don't believe it is wise to attempt to create a war, and spread it all the way to the Project. Please keep unrelated discussions and disputes out of here.Pvt Mahoney 00:28, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have to also some what agree with the above post. I think you should de-POV your statements here. Just say "there is a problem in xxxx article and I would like your opinion". That would be much better. Also, it seems that Katefan has protected the status as is.--Jersey Devil 00:46, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I posted this here because recently there is a constant war in several pages that has to do with peruvian history. Also, I posted here because it should be part of the peruvian wikiproject to preserve the integrity and the neutrality of those articles that involves the history of our country.
My intentions are not creating a war. As a matter of fact, my only reasons to do this is because we need to keep an eye on those articles that are heavely modified by other users who has little or no knowledge of peruvian history.
The article is protected, yes. I already complain about this.

Having explaining this, I believe it's appropiate to pay a little more of attention to the articles that involves peruvian history. Messhermit 02:29, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

All I ask is that if there is every any future conflict just say "there is a dispute on this page that you may be interested in" instead of POVing your statement. It makes it sound like you want us to go in there and simply stop other reverts and assume that you are in the right. I can not simply do that even though for the most part I do like your contributions to Wikipedia. You should also think about it from a practical matter. What if you were having a dispute with another poster on content and you came here and said "this POV poster is vandalizing this page". Well then if that poster sees that and others see that they will think that the other poster is in the right as it would seem you are asking us to go there with a predetermined idea about what to do.--Jersey Devil 02:59, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Then I shall correct myself and avoid this kind of behavior with the Peruvian community here in Wikipedia. We must remember, nevertheless, that we should keep an eye in several history-related articles; in order to avoid this kind of misunderstands. Messhermit 04:44, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Jersey Devil and everybody else belonging to Wikiproject:Peru. I am the wikipedian from Guayaquil. I think it's a good idea if any history buffs in this community came by to see what's been going on in the History of the Ecuadorian-Peruvian territorial dispute article, and in its talk page. I have posted a couple of suggestions to break the deadlock in this article, and I think your input & suggestions would be important. Well, that's it. Cheers. Andres C. 00:08, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ramón Castilla

Just thought I let you guys know I expanded Ramón Castilla's article by translating information largely from the Spanish version. It might need an extra revision so as to correct any typos, dates or wrong events in their chronological order which any of you might know better. Any suggestions are welcomed :) --Dynamax 02:12, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work, needs sources though.--Jersey Devil 16:50, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Peruvian national election, 2006

I've added a new "Campaign" section on the Peruvian national election, 2006 page, it's likely to be the most subjective section, so I would like people to participate. Feel free to add, change or delete whatever you want, but keep it relevant and NPOV, of course. Also, if there is some kind of accusation against a candidate, make sure to make it clear that it's just an accusation. Thanks all. --Gabbec 07:43, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Peru Portal Pics

Is anyone else having trouble viewing the images for the "selected article", "selected biography", and "The Peru Portal" boxes?--Jersey Devil 14:36, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They seem to work as of the 4th. Pvt Mahoney 19:52, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team cooperation

Hello. I'm a member of the Version 1.0 Editorial Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing articles using these criteria, and we are are asking for your help. As you are most aware of the issues surrounding your focus area, we are wondering if you could provide us with a list of the articles that fall within the scope of your WikiProject, and that are either featured, A-class, B-class, or Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Do you have any recommendations? If you do, please post your suggestions at the listing of all active Places WikiProjects, and if you have any questions, ask me in the Work Via WikiProjects talk page or directly in my talk page. Thanks a lot! Tito xd^{(?!? - help us)} 07:09, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Inconsistant GDP information

I'm not sure if anyone has noticed but the GDP per capita is listed as $6000 while the total GDP is lited as 168.9 Billion. If you do the math considering the recent national census the GDP per capita is actually $6424 based on that information. I am going to change this but if anyone has any reason to think that my assumption is infactual just contact me. Vivaperucarajo 19:27, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

INEI Census figures

I was just wondering if there is any way to acquire the 2005 INEI census figures. I've noticed that in most of the city, province, and region articles, there are figures that vary wildly from estimates to census figures from the 90s (I think), and it would be nice to have a concise number for each article...any thoughts?--User:Valentino

CPN Radio

I just made the initial entry at CPN Radio. Can't believe this didn't have an entry until now. You guys can add to it if you want.--Jersey Devil 03:28, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Andean Renaissance?

Isn't the title of Andean Renaissance suppose to be "Andean Rebirth" as Renacimiento Andino translates to that?--Jersey Devil 19:20, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would say that the "Renaissance" is better. Messhermit 20:12, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

June and July Collaboration

As choosen by the last vote, this month's collaboration will be Andrés de Santa Cruz. You should also note that voting is open now for the July collaboration and will be closed and cleared by the end of this month...so make sure to get your votes in before the closing period. Good luck on the Santa Cruz article guys.--Jersey Devil 05:59, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Title translations

Jersey Devil and I were having a small discussion in the Radio Programas del Perú talk page about translating the names of companies like this to English and move the articles there. I tend not to like translating proper names, but there are good reasons behind it (I don't know if there is an official policy about this). In some cases, translations can be cumbersome and inadequate. Both of us would probably cringe if someone moved El Comercio to The Commerce or something like that, for instance, but there are cases where it's probably better to translate. Should we have some kinds of policy for Peru-related articles, or leave it to individual cases? Any thoughts? --Gabbec 20:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Peru Presidents Template

Please see this.--Jersey Devil 21:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]