Talk:The Satan Pit

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The Satan Pit Part One and Two?

Have a butcher's at this. [1]

This suggests to me that The Satan Pit, as a title, refers to both episodes together. Anyone else agree? NP Chilla 13:19, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd suggest that the production team is referring to both episodes as "The Satan Pit", and by the time the episodes air they'll have individual titles. I get the impression that the Series One two-parters were referred to as "Aliens of London", "The Empty Child" and "The Parting of the Ways" during production — at Gallifrey last week, Noel Clarke had to be prompted before remembering the name "World War Three", and tended to refer to the entire Slitheen story as "Aliens of London". —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 19:17, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh. I didn't know that. Thanks. NP Chilla 20:31, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Beast

I don't know about anything else, but I think I know what "The Beast" is. Remember "Pyramids of Mars"? With Suteck? Remember he freed "the beast" and The Forth Doctor sealed the beast in a time tunnel? I thing the trapdoor is the time tunnel and the "the beast" in both programs are the same. Sadly, I never saw the episode of "Pyramids of Mars" and cannot find out more. <Darkwarlock999>

On a similar note, I have uploaded this image of "The Beast", but I'm not sure if we should change the image for this episode to this or whether (considering it hasn't yet been revealed if this truly is The Beast yet) we should keep the current one. What do people think? The_B 16:25, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See here or here for different pictures showing how big the Beast is. How does he get out of the trapdoor?--Keycard ^(talk) 16:43, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

its unlikely to be suteck, its not hard to imagine that there would be many aliens that are really nasty and get termed 'the beast' and such, remember it can probably read minds and say things that produce maximum fear. – deven

Chris Evans

It says Chris Evans is going to play the devil, but does it mean Chris Evans (actor) whose quite fit, and american, or Chris Evans (broadcaster) who isn't fit, and used to be married to Billie Piper? horseboy 19:43, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The broadcaster (Piper's ex) is the one the rumors are about, but it's important to note that that's all they are at this point. The link's been disambiguated now. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 20:44, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note 2

Coincidentally? While it may not have been in the forefront of their minds, many of the current production team are long-time fans, and I don't think they could have case Sutekh as Satan without some awareness of the metafictional appropriateness. In fact, DWM, while it doesn't mention Woolf, quotes Russell Davies as saying that the starting point of this story was for the Doctor to face an enemy similar to Sutekh. Daibhid C 15:23, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, yeah, believe me, that speculation has been at the forefront of the OG forums and I'm just as excited about the possibility as anyone else, but we don't know for sure, hence my coy formulation of that sentence. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 15:32, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Humbug, I thought it was Sutekh too. That would've been a better explanation than the one they didn't give. :[ Vitriol 19:37, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thinking about it, it's quite possible Woolf was only cast after principal photography and CGI work had been done. Morwen - Talk 19:44, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I disagree, I think the explanation they didn't give was very good. I am now working on a fan theory that Sutekh was deliberately copying the Beast's voice as part of his "Satan" charade 8-)... Daibhid C 21:06, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I like that one! PaulHammond

meaning of names

Grins at the playing with names Anyone else note how writers have played with the first names of the characetrs - taken from behindthename.com, we have

Mr. Jefferson no first name... juast a title, son of geoffrey [which in turn translates as god-peace or territory-peace]

Zachary Cross Flane [From the Hebrew name זְכַרְיָה (Zekaryah) which meant "YAHWEH remembers".

Ida Scott - Derived from the Germanic element id meaning "work, labour".

Toby Zed - From the Hebrew name טוֹבִיָּה (Toviyyah) which meant "YAHWEH is good".

Danny Bartock - From the Hebrew name דָנִיֵּאל (Daniyyel) meaning "God is my judge".

Scooti Manista - manista: found online: Urban Dictionary: fashionistaFashion is the english word for style. and "ista" derived from the latin word "manista" which means the exhalted one.

What do you mean "Mr. Jefferson no first name", they kept calling him John, i would think that is his first name--71.247.246.130 21:31, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

also - we go from Zed to Alpha in the list of the dead... Crescent 20:08, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unless the writers actually come forth and say that this is what they intended, I wouldn't give this a second thought. What you mention ranges from far-fetched (Jefferson, Ida, Manista) to probably irrelevant (lots of names derive from Hebrew, and Hebrew is rich in names that refer to God). Unlike the 666 references, which are all obvious, this could all be pure coincidence. The fact that the writers could have made the connections a lot stronger if they wanted such references hints at this.

Incidentally, "manista" is not Latin for "exalted one". It's not Latin period. "Ista" is, but it's a simple pronoun. "Manis" could be more to your liking, since it can mean "gods of the lower world" or "underworld", but of course this has no more relevance to the name "Manista" than anything else. False etymologies are easy to come by. 82.92.119.11 21:23, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rose the killer

Is this the first time Rose has killed someone? I can't recall any other occasions. --Billpg 22:23, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're right. Daibhid C 22:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Though it's debatable whether she actually killed the Beast. She probably intended to, but the Beast was earlier shown to survive the vacuum of space quite comfortably, and could have survived the black hole (although the latter was sort of intended to kill him quite dead). (Then there was the whole separated body/mind thing going on, but let's ignore that—and whether the Beast's human host was still alive is anyone's guess as well.) 82.92.119.11 22:59, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

how bout when she killed the nestine? or, oh, i don't know the entire dalek race?--71.247.246.130 04:49, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rose killing the Beast is probably non-controversial and non-notable. On the other hand, Rose killing Toby is rather more thought-provoking, as he technically was innocent, making this the first time Rose has killed a non-hostile, as well as the first time Rose has killed another human being. RobbieG 08:27, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. Bit difficult to kill the Beast without killing Toby, the human it had possessed. However, I wondered why she killed him by bursting the glass, and endangering the entire crew, rather than just shooting Toby with the bolt gun - though perhaps the production team decided that having Rose directly shoot Toby with a gun *would* be more controversial than creating a fatal "accident" and conveniently having the ship equipped with a forcefield to save the air for the rest of them... PaulHammond 15:01, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Probably if Rose had shot Toby the Beast's soul would've just moved into someone else. Not even intelligence can escape the black hole. Vitriol 16:18, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Apart from the un-show-ability of showing a human shooting a human in the programme (they'd never be allowed), shooting someone doesn't guarantee killing them. Plus, as said, the intelligence could move on. And what force field? They had emergency shutter screens, made of metal, that came down in case of decompression, as has been shown used on other ships and stations when the windows are endangered. Skittle 22:01, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note 10

Ida briefly travels in the TARDIS (though not through time), which is uncommon for non-companions.

How uncommon, really? I mean, it obviously doesn't happen frequently (because usually the TARDIS is simply a method of getting to the story, not a part of it), but I don't think it's such a highly unusual situation it's worth commenting on. Off the top of my head I can think of H.G. Wells, Laurence Scarman, the Master, Chang Lee, Margaret Slitheen, Mickey (before he was really a companion) and the Brigadier. There's probably more. (And that's without even getting into the question of whether Sara Kingdom and Dr Grace count...)Daibhid C 22:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Doctor also gives the Lt Scott & his soldiers a trip in Earthshock, along with Professor Kyle; the Cybermen themselves hitch a lift too. Sgt Benton & Dr Tyler also get a TARDIS outing in The Three Doctors; The Anti-man Sorenson in Planet of Evil. Vivamancer 01:46, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Didn't Duggan also get a lift in City of Death? --86.27.62.158 21:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

correct me if i'm wrong, but the planet had already broken up by the time he got to his TARDIS, doesn't that mean he had to briefly foward in time to reach the rocket in order for the timing to work out? come to think of it, in order to be able to move around inside of the event horizon so effortlessly it would have to be canceling the time dilation effect somehow, so again, time travel--71.247.246.130 02:44, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

(Former) Note 15

The 'bolt gun' weilded by the captain, and later fired by Rose, is similar in appearance to the Bolt Gun, specifically the Bolt Pistol, used by the Space Marines of Warhammer 40,000 (close to the year 43,000 the episode is set in).

Yeah... a bit tenuous I think. The bolt pistols/guns in both cases look an awful lot like a real-world bolt gun, which is probably where the image comes from. Also, audio commentary say 43rd Century, not 43rd millenium. The Warhammer figurines seem to share an industrial/gritty design theme, somewhat like this episode, but that is hardly unique. That and I can really not see Doctor Who designers referencing Warhammer deliberately, and coincidences don't really merit inclusion.81.77.11.2 23:28, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How's the TARDIS get there?

Haven't added this as a note, but it sort of jumped out at me as a possible goof. So, the Doctor's legging it at the end of the episode, and stumbles across the TARDIS. The Doctor was still in the pit at the time, but how could the TARDIS have fallen into the pit, since the seal didn't open until the Doctor and Ida investigated it, after the TARDIS fell into the chasm? - Chris McFeely 23:28, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

By science? Vitriol 23:48, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the writers did it, yes, you heard me.. the writers--71.247.246.130 02:38, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gravity! --70.22.3.233 04:29, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A wizard did it. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 09:32, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well the planet was being affected by the black hole's gravity, so tidal forces may have opened up cracks in the crust the TARDIS could fall through :) 84.68.216.98 11:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a goof, it's just a stunningly obvious "co-incidence", that was clearly going to happen at some stage as soon as we saw the TARDIS disappear "irretrievably" near the beginning of episode one.

The TARDIS has fallen down lift-shafts and off mountains before - cf Peladon and the Mark of the Rani. PaulHammond 15:07, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The bright green Ood...

Walked loudly into the brave open door while courageously traversing the ominous void of the long mysterious corridor, loudly approaching the blatent overuse of adjectives in plot summaries--71.247.246.130 02:59, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

hmmm...

Ok, so from part I, we've established that the planet itself is roughly circular, with a radius of 10 miles, and a diameter of 20 miles. We've also established that the shaft goes right to the center of the planet, right to the power source, 10 miles down, 10 miles of cable.. yet somehow the pit is over 10 miles deep, from the center of the planet.. that means, from the base to the pit has to be over 20 miles. A nice trick for a 20 mile wide planet, the pit is deeper than the planet is wide.... hmmm--71.247.246.130 05:10, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You mean the planet is bigger on the inside than the outside? Now where have I heard that before... :-) --DudeGalea 06:34, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No. If you looked at their diagram of their drill-shaft, you saw that the 10-mile track wasn't going to the centre of the planet. It was about, say, 4 miles away.--Keycard ^(talk) 06:43, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In space there is no pressure...

...meaning that Scooti, Toby, and the crew of that rocket should all have exploded, air or no air, right? RobbieG 09:19, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, although they might have swollen, they wouldn't have exploded; the difference between the pressure in the interior of the ship and the pressure of space is only one atmosphere, while the human body can withstand a pressure change of up to 8 atmospheres. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 09:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, that's okay then. Thanks! RobbieG 13:51, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They're not in space anyway, they're flying through the accretion disk of a small/medium sized blackhole, plenty of gas and dust flying around at relativistic velocities. The screen on the rocket was reading external preasure, but no units given, so I don't have the slightest notion of how much 66.5 [no units] is supposed to be, but it could easily be quite a bit, if for instance it was reading atm the preasure should probably have crushed them, of course if it was reading 66.5 mm of Hg, it would be near vacuum or around .0875 atm. Of course it's the future, for all I know they measure pressure in Oods feet per cubic meter, or whatever--71.247.246.130 21:27, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comparison between Doom 3 Cyberdemon and the Beast

Compare the image of the beast to this. There is more than a vague resemelance between the beast and the Doom 3 Cyberdemon (Ignoring the cybernetic enhancements on the latter, of course). -- TheDarkArchon 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I added a note that the beast was very similar in appearance to Eddie, the Iron Maiden mascot, especially from the cover of their third album named - you guessed it - The Number Of The Beast (here's a pic - [2]). This was unilaterally removed, suggesting either that no-one agrees with me (I can't see that - the resemblance is striking), or that it was judged irrelevant, maybe because every devil like superbeing looks much like any other?--82.3.251.15 16:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]