Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dogs/Archive B4

Color of breed tables

It has come to my attention that this WikiProject uses the same color as animals in the Wikipedia:WikiProject Tree of Life taxobox. I would like to suggest changing it (even to a different shade of pink) so that each color is used in only one table. Since there are undoubtedly many more animal tables than dog breed ones, it would be easier to change these than those. I will do the change myself if no one else wants to (though tell me what color you want, or I'll just pick one). See Wikipedia:Taxobox. Tuf-Kat 03:38, Feb 5, 2004 (UTC)

That was a deliberate choice. mav suggested we use the same colour for dogs as animals in the Tree of Life project (dogs being animals an' all) and that seemed like a good idea. The discussion is on User talk:Maveric149/archive 10. We were originally using bright green and considered using 11 different colours, one for each FIC class and one for uncategorized. I don't particularly object to a change, although linking the colours did work well for Dingo, where the taxobox and the breed infobox were linked up. What do you think? -- sannse 11:38, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Well, I'm now inclined to think that the colors don't matter. There's already a lot of repetition, and that will likely only grow worse over time. Tuf-Kat 17:51, Feb 5, 2004 (UTC)

Then perhaps we can leave it as pink for now and see how things go. Let me know if you think differently as things progress over at Wikipedia talk:Infobox ;) -- sannse 18:26, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Sample dog article for projects project

Template:SampleWikiProject

Anyone got a preferred article from List of dog breeds? I think it should be one with a photo, but other than that I'm easy - I'll have a look through some tomorrow to see what goodies we have. -- sannse 23:46, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Afghan Hound isn't bad although it's still a wee bit POV I think, but it does use the new thumbnail image format. Newfoundland is nice because it has more than one image and the text is a little better, but neither image uses the thumbnail format. Elf 03:34, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

What about Alaskan Malamute, it's short but covers all the points asked for by the WikiProject. It's also very neutral. I've changed the image to a the thumbnail format. If not, either of those you mentioned looks good -- sannse (talk) 11:06, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

That works for me. Elf 20:28, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Done -- sannse (talk) 00:06, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Just noticed that it doesn't use the new table markup but instead uses HTML tbl markup. Ditto with the template on this project's meta page. Which way to we want to go? Your latest sample in your sandbox uses the new markup, and that's what I've been assuming we'd go with--? Elf 17:52, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Yes, I think we should change over - it's purely a matter of getting round to it. I think that's what I'll work on this evening, I've only got an hour or so though so won't get that far tonight. I'll do the template and Alaskan Malamute first then see how far I get down the list, feel free to do any you want to of course. -- sannse (talk) 18:51, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

More than just dog breeds

There have been discussions in other areas about having main category pages that provide an index into related articles. While trying to find something earlier, I was thinking that an index/category page of dog-related articles would be a good thing to have. (We'd reference List of dog breeds in that index, not the individual breed pages.) It could have subcategories like descriptions, activities, history, biology, sociology (I dunno, what would you call Dog adoption, animal shelter, and the like?). Does anyone know if such a thing exists? If not, who understands Wikipedia well enough to suggest an appropriate title and/or a sample index page from some other topic area? Elf 03:30, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Hmm, I found List of biology topics, but it's so huge they've arranged it alphabetically rather than by category. List of production topics is by category. Elf 05:14, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

OK, being the impatient sort, I'm already answering my own question and starting List of dog topics. :-) Elf 05:38, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC) Whew! Did a google search on everything with the word "dog" in it; gave up after the references started to be few & far between. And, as usual, google list is out of date, so more recent entries didn't show up. Suggestions, additions, organization welcome. Elf 06:10, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Looks good! I can think of a couple of additions, although it looks pretty comprehensive, I'll add some later -- sannse (talk) 11:06, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Heh! That "couple" I mentioned - you already found them. Good work -- sannse (talk) 00:08, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Dang! You mean I could've taken the afternoon off? Elf 00:20, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Review Spaniel article

For anyone interested, I just put up an article on Spaniels that gives some background on what a spaniel is and then lists breeds that are probably classifiable as Spaniels. If anyone knows more about what makes a spaniel and what doesn't (and it's not just whethe the name includes the word "spaniel" ;-) ), I'd be delighted if you'd review the article and even add more info. Elf 17:42, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Request for photo

Hi, can we have a photo of a couple of different dogs of different breeds together to put onto artificial selection please? preferably one big one and one little fluffy one? Duncharris 15:12, May 6, 2004 (UTC)

I'll see whether I can arrange that some weekend while I'm surrounded by canine-type beast things. Mostly I do dog agility, which doesn't work well for really big breeds, so largest I'm likely to see are German Shepherd Dogs or maybe a Briard. Other challenge is that dogs who don't know each other might not want to stand comfortably next to each other for a photo, and most dog owners tend to have only large or only small dogs. I might be able to get a Border Collie and a Jack Russell Terrier together. Elf | Talk

00:59, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

I might have better luck if I go to a show this year - I'm not sure yet if I will, but if I do I'll look out for a good combination too. A similar photo that would be useful is the three types of poodle together, and other images of similar situations (and I want a pony...) -- sannse (talk)

07:49, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

I just added Image:IMG013biglittledogFX wb.jpg. Elf | Talk 06:59, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Excellent Elf, that really does the job -- sannse (talk) 09:23, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Sorry, no pony, though. :-) Wish I had a photo--last year at Agility Camp, for the costume contest, one of the attendees said she was tired of people asking whether her Great Dane was some kind of pony, so she did a completely professional job of dressing the Dane *as* a pony--matching tail and mane and a litle saddle, and that's all it took! It was hysterical. And I don't often get hysterical-- Elf | Talk 15:59, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC) Oh, wait--I found a photo online: Great Dane pony!

Heh, wonderful -- sannse (talk) 16:14, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Common Nickname

I added a "Common nickname" section to the table. Seems that almost every breed has one or maybe 2 that dog people in-the-know would recognize but that outsiders wouldn't. Have been finding or putting many of those in the article. I think it belongs in the table. Thoughts? Elf | Talk 20:09, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Looks good to me -- sannse (talk) 21:49, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Dog pages footer

moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories Elf | Talk 03:46, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

"No image yet" photo link

My latest wiki discovery is this very-seldom-used page: File:No image yet. It suggests (as does the Wikipedia:Requested pictures page) using a link to it from any page where we know a photo is wanted. This seems like it might be an excellent idea on the dog breed pages where there is no photo for the infobox. To see what it looks like, I implemented it at American Water Spaniel. It might encourage folks to provide photos. Thoughts? Elf | Talk 16:37, 17 May 2004 (UTC)

Sorry to sound discouraging again - but it just looks like a broken image to me. Maybe if it were some sort of image in itself? -- sannse (talk)

18:09, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

i have uploaded sannse's idea: Image:NO IMAGE YET.png,

. Badanedwa 22:22, Jun 16, 2004 (UTC)

or this version, Image:NO IMAGE YET square.png,

. Badanedwa 22:44, Jun 16, 2004 (UTC)

Help! Emergency! I've messed up the DOG article!

I didn't mean to. I was edited the bottom section and adding to it and every time I tried to do a preview and save it kept freezing on me.

Finally it worked, but to my horror my ammended section has REPLACE the entire article! Can somebody reverse this FAST? Quill 01:30, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Categories, Cont'd....

moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories Elf | Talk 03:46, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Kennel Club or 'kennel club'

BTW, you don't have to capitalize text that's linked unless it's a proper name; for example, dog breeding. Wikipedia automatically looks for a matching article whose first letter is capitalized. Pretty clever of them, huh? (Quote from a Wikipedian who shall remain nameless)

Yeah, I thought so, until I realized that titles of articles are case sensitive. Here's a for instance: for weeks I've been thinking that we had no article for 'kennel club' and we really need one. Have a few minutes, and I'm ready to write, and typed 'kennel club', lower case, which led to 'Kennel Club' (upper case), which is a 'disambig' page. Didn't remember seeing that before. Was about to start, but something was nagging at the back of my brain saying I was sure that links showed no kennel club article--don't get ahead of me, folks--you guessed it--the links in our articles go to 'kennel club', lower case. So...I'm going to put my stub at 'kennel club', because that's what I mean, and anyone with an objection or a better idea can move it...change it...etc. Quill 09:22, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It's a bit more complicated than that I'm afraid. The first word of a link to an article title is not case sensitive (This link and this link are the same) but further words are (This Link and This link are not the same). Article titles have to have first word capitalised, which is why the "iMac" article is at "IMAC", and the convention is to have other words in lower case unless it is a proper noun.

On the kennel club articles, I think the title you used is correct. The disambiguation article at "Kennel Club" refers to the organisation titles (and so properly capitalised) while your new article refers to the concept of kennel clubs. So if we are using the word as a title we capitalise both words: "This was agreed by the Kennel Club in 1872". And if the general concept then we don't: "Most kennel clubs are privately funded". But, in the first example we would always be better to link to the specific club article anyway. So it seems easier to make "Kennel Club" into a redirect to "Kennel club". So I've done so. Sorry to be so long-winded bout it though :) -- sannse (talk) 12:37, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks Sannse. Long-winded? Not a bit of it; take your time, I need it.... Quill 09:11, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

More about Categories

moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories Elf | Talk 03:46, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

dog trouble

Hi all--Wikipedia is behaving very strangely for me today.

For one thing, kennel club keeps taking me into the edit this page rather than the article.

I tried to add two new articles, and for some reason the system wasn't letting me do it; now 'my contributions' looks like I've added the same article three times.

Do you see articles on conformation point and fault (dog)? I've also got one on breed standard but for now I'm giving up in frustration.

Thanks--Quill 00:39, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

You must not have made your offerings to the proper wiki gods this morning! Indeed, I get articles for kennel club, conformationpoint, and fault (dog).Elf | Talk 03:52, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Sigh--The Gods Must be CRAZY!! Quill 22:08, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hey! I didn't link that title (above)--how did that happen?? This is getting Twilight Zone-ish!! Quill 23:22, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Non-list lists

moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories Elf | Talk 03:46, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Dog Registries

I noticed this while reviewing recent edits to the goldendoodle article. The United Kennel Club Int'l has been listed in the breed table.

The Continental Kennel Club and the United Kennel Club Int'l are, at best, minor registries. The website of the CKC does not even describe its organization. According to the website of the UKCI, it is a private family business. I am therefore questioning the inclusion of minor registries in the breed tables. In essence, that would mean that the breed table points to an outside link to a small business, and I thought that Wikipedia didn't do that? This is not meant to cast aspersions, as there is nothing wrong with small family businesses, just to point out that as far as I can tell, our other outside links point to breed or kennel clubs.

Quill 00:23, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I was intending to ask your opinion on this Quill, so I'm glad you've raised the issue. I spent some time yesterday reading the UKCI website and various criticisms of them. It seems to me that these registries (and I refrain from adding quotes there) are more about advertising puppies than anything else. And links to such adverts are generally considered a bad thing on Wikipedia. Certainly I am not convinced they have a place in the table, even if they are the only registry available. I think we should stick to the breed and kennel clubs we have been using -- sannse (talk) 16:46, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It seems from recent edits at goldendoodle and terrier that we will probably need to discuss this and come to a consensus. Can we have some opinions from other project members? Quill 00:29, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

BTW, let's not confuse the United Kennel Club (UKC) [1] with the Universal Kennel Club International (UKCI) [2]. The former is listed on the Kennel Club article, the latter is (rightfully) not. I mention this because you twice referred to the UKCI as "United Kennel Club Int'l".

Yep, duly noted. Quill 23:45, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I agree that the links to the CKC and UKCI should be removed (I suspect many of the UKCI "breeders" are puppy mills), but, if you think the larger, older kennel clubs aren't businesses, you're fooling yourselves <grin>.Wcrowe 17:01, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I don't think anyone here is so deluded. Some of us may even have issues with the major registries; I'll be the first one to say that I have. I just think that there are dog welfare components at work in the biggies that are missing from the johnnie-come-latelies. Quill 23:45, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Glad we got that cleared up. Now, as someone else pointed out (don't know what happened to that edit), the UKCI seems to be nothing more than a clearing house for, um, "breeders" to sell dogs. I think they'll register anything that breathes. Really, when you get right down to it, there is nothing to prevent anyone from starting a kennel club and registering litters.Wcrowe 15:25, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Collection of dog photos

Someone started, and I've been adding to, a page with all free-distribution (e.g., GFDL), public domain, etc. dog photos: Wikipedia:List of images/Nature/Animals/Dogs. I added the photos that User:Sannse and [[User:Elf|I] took and have been working my way through all of the breed articles, slowly, checking the photos to see whether they're GFDL or similar and then either adding them to the photo album page or attempting to contact the contributor and leaving a note on the album's talk page.

This is just a request that, if you see anyone add a dog photo, to check whether its source and copyright/license status are identified; if not, attempt to contact the user (nicely) to get the info; and if it is free distr/public, add it to the album page? Or at least let me know that it's there so I can follow up. Hopefully I'll see any photos that are added because all the breed pages are on my watchlist, but ya never know. Thanks! Elf | Talk 00:11, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Schnauzer naming

Please give your thoughts on the Talk:Schnauzer page. Thanks. Elf | Talk 02:05, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Veterinarians

I just added a couple of stubs to the List of dog topics, plus linked James Herriot. Is this all right with everyone? Quill 01:44, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Categories (part 23)

moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories Elf | Talk 03:46, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Format of images in tables

Any thoughts on this? Personally I much prefer the "thumb" version - partly for the aesthetics of the thing, but mostly because readers are not likely to know that there is a larger version of the image available. The expand icon is vital for the full effect of the images to be appreciated -- sannse (talk) 16:28, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Do you mean a smaller version of the picture that when you move the cursor over it it's obvious that you can click to enlarge? I like this too. Overly-large pictures dominate the article and take ages to load. Quill 07:06, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It's the difference between:

and

This

Recently all the images in the dog infoboxes has been changed to the latter; still the same size image, but without the border or the expand icon. It also makes it more difficult to add a caption (without using more complicated tables as I did above). I think it's an all round bad idea, but wanted to see if others felt the same -- sannse (talk) 11:46, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I agree. I like the pictures with the border and expand icon better. I'm going to leave ChicXulub a message on their talk page to see why they changed all of our images (they apparently did it in other categories too). [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue (talk)]] 13:58, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Huh. I got back after 3 days off, checked my watchlist in chronological order, and just went to work fixing most of the images before I ever went to Chic's talk page or looked here--I figured that if he/she had looked here, the changes wouldn't have been made. So... see *my* note on User talk:ChicXulub. Elf | Talk 06:23, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Heh, I probably should have been bold and done the same. Thanks Elf -- sannse (talk) 17:24, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Show dogs and dog shows

Found articles on Crufts and (misnamed/misdescribed but now fixed) Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show. Created a stub for show dog because was on Wikipedia:Most wanted articles list. Those of you with interest/knowledge in these areas, have at. Elf | Talk 07:34, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Category subproject page

I have created a subproject page, Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories to discuss the ongoing categorization of dog-related articles. Please take a look and throw in your two bits on its talk page. Thanks. (And you might want to add it to your watchlist; I don't think subpages go there automagically.) Elf | Talk 03:55, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

you guys might be interested...

I happened upon this page while working on recategorizing cat-related pages (there wasn't much organization, and it's proving to be quite a task). Wikipedia:Wikipedians_by_pet I just thought some of you might want to take a look. [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue (talk)]] 18:01, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

No fooling! That's why I left a zillion messages on all the talk pages of places where cat-interested people might notice them, referring to my discussion on organization. It's taking me many hours just to work my way slowly through all the dog articles! Thanks for the new pointer. Elf | Talk

You should check out Category:Cats and Category:Felines. I've done a lot of work on this stuff today. It makes me wonder if dog-people aren't a bit more fanatical about their pets than cat-people, considering how much thought and work is being put into the dog categories, and the lack thereof in the cats'... [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue (talk)]] 19:55, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Wouldn't surprise me--after all, dog people tend to be very involved in their dogs' lives & activities & vice-versa. Cats? They just hang out-- ;-) You *have* done a lot of category work! Good job. Elf | Talk 20:20, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Yo! Lay off cats! ;)

Actually, I think it's because of the difference of time in the development of dog fancy (much older) and cat fancy. Many more dog breeds and dog organizations, many more purebred dogs are pets than purebred cats, etc. Certainly, the difference in dog-human vs. cat-human interaction plays a large part as well (cat flyball races??!!)

I came across a person asking questions on categorization (no puns!) on one of the Cat talk pages (Lord knows where) and I recommended that s/he get in touch with Sannse or Elf for help (no, you don't have to thank me ;) Quill 21:54, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

need support

Category:Cat breeds and Category:Cat types have both been marked for deletion, b/c someone thinks they should be merged. We all know they are two very different things. Could you guys please put in some votes for them not to be? Thanks. [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue (talk)]] 20:39, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

(Bad) Shih Tzu picture

When I saw that Shih Tzu didn't have any picture, I took a picture of my pet Shih Tzu and uploaded it to wikipedia, Image:Shih Tzu.JPG. However, it's not a very good picture at all quality-wise, the dog isn't standing, it was taken in my living room, the picture needs to be shrunk (its 2048x1536) and my Shih Tzu recently had a haircut so she doesn't have the long hair look Shih Tzus are supposed to. But, if you want to put it in the Shih Tzu article go ahead, I released it into the Public Domain, I just didn't want to put it in without consulting somebody due to it's many flaws. If you think something is better than nothing though, you got your wish :) p.s. I will try to get a better picture up but we'll see... - biggins | talk 22:48, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and edit the picture some, and re-upload it over the original image (if that's ok) and put it in the Shih Tzu article... still haven't decided if I will put it in the breed table or not.... [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue (talk)]] 23:08, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)