Talk:Naraku

Name

Does anyone know the name of the guy who gave Kikyo the peice of hair, and the one who burned the place where Onigumo was? Reub2000 13:54, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Rasetsu

Appearance

I don't know where people got the impression that Naraku has a true form. He originated from a combination of people with opposing goals. The man sends out parts of himself to serve him, and they all hate his guts. All except the girl Kanna, who personifies emptiness. His name means Hell, and the damned soul in question (Onigumo) perceives him as a black abyss. If you don't count the prisoner, there's nothing under the masks. A quick search reveals at least two sites where people agree with me; the link http://www.animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=155218 seems to work. Dan 03:18, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

And oh yes, we never see Onigumo's face because he lost his identity during the formation of Naraku. His original face no longer exists, even in memory.

I don't know where people got the impression that Naraku has a true form. He originated from a combination of people with opposing goals.

It is quite possible that the Spider/Youkai-Human form which he appeared as in episodes 80-81 is his true/defualt form. After both InuYasha and Sesshoumaru assumed that it is (in both the Manga and the Anime), Naraku never did deny it-- in fact, he nearly agreed. Sometimes, it is almost like some people are a bit afraid to research and then assume things based on what they had researched. Or maybe Naraku's true form is whichever form he obtains after being reborn...There are so many possiblities and theories. However, people may be mistaking "true form" for "original form".

Perhaps most of these mysteries would be resolved if the Zusetsutaizen Ougikaiden official character data book were translated in English.IANS 10:11, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Um, to "assume things" would technically violate the prohibition on original research at Wikipedia. And a data book would add a new POV, nothing more and nothing less. Dan 02:30, 25 April 2006 (UTC) (I moved both comments from the end of this page)

The article says Naraku's spider scar disappears at one point. Sounds plausible, but where does this information come from? Do we see his back after that point in the manga? I don't recall seeing it in the anime. Dan 23:34, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Noman953, please explain the following edit: [[1]]. You removed sourced information without saying why, and restored at least one demonstrably false statement ("have never been used in combat".) Dan 17:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I reversed some of those changes, and also removed a disputed assertion. Notice that I cited other fan sources for my own interpretation, and I've modified my text slightly to avoid making any claim in violation of NPOV. (Or Wikipedia:No_original_research.) If you want to restore the claim I deleted, please give a source instead of asserting it as the article's official position. Dan 18:39, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Article appearance

Who took the italicisations off of yōkai and those other words? They are foreign words that are not proper nouns; leave them italicised.

What is with the Japanese language help things on all the names of Naraku's children? I feel that it is detracting from the appearance of the article. It is well-known that those are the appropriate kanji and Hepburn romanisations thereof. If nobody responds with an explanation of why the Japanese language help things are there, I will delete them. The same goes for the formatting thing that causes hyphens to appear when there should be em dashes. Θεοδωρος יִרְמְיָהוּ Nizarck 00:51, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

The Japanese help page exists to help people display the characters properly in their browser. But one link would probably suffice. I don't know if I see this formatting problem you speak of. Dan

The formatting problem apparently only appears on some computers, as I have been experimenting with different networks. If there is to be only one link (logically), should it not appear with the first Japanese text in the article, Naraku's own name at the very top? Θεοδωρος יִרְמְיָהוּ Nizarck 00:30, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay, the new character template has the problem that the table that showed furigana now looks like crap standing out against the vermillion background. I assume that is why Kunzite removed them from all the articles that had them. Is there anyway to incorporate a table that will not conflict with the template's background? Θεοδωρος יִרְמְיָהוּ Nizarck 17:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Age

I'd like to inquire as to why Naraku's profile lists him as being around 70 years old. Naraku was created around the time Inuyasha was sealed, ie, 50 years ago. Unless the manga/anime lasts 20 years, I don't think Naraku could be any older than maybe 52 or 53 (again, depending on how long the manga/anime lasts)., I'd like to suggest we change his age to '50+ years', Who supports this? User: Drake Clawfang, April 14 2006, 9:09 PM, EST.

Sounds reasonable to me. I don't know how you could arrive at an age of 70 years unless you identify him with Onigumo, which probably explains it. I don't recall Naraku ever using time travel. Dan 07:41, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Manga vs anime

Hello, I believe certain false information in Naraku's article needs to be removed; which includes:

1) The parts about Onigumo & Rasetsu, Etc. That was a filler episode, so none of the Onigumo/Rasetsu stories were written/created by Rumiko Takahashi.

2) The Naraku who was reborn at Hakurei-Zan is not a full Youkai-- which was confirmed by Abi-Hime and Tekkei.

3) Things that Naraku had said or done in InuYasha movies and filler episodes should not be listed as official information.

One thing that I notice is, many times, different people's contributions to Naraku's article are deleted--even when the information is true. There used to be more pictures, facts and other information about him, which made his article look more complete-- like most of the other InuYasha character's. At one time, most of the page was deleted-- why is that?? I assume that everyone is free to edit and add to any page, so all articles should be shared and NOT owned. In other words, I believe no one has the right to delete someone else's information UNLESS it is awfully false.

I beg to differ concerning points one and three. Events exclusive to the anime, however incompatible with the original manga, are still officially licensed under the InuYasha franchise, and should be given due consideration. That being said, because of the disparities between the anime and manga, I do believe that anime- or movie-only information should be noted as such. Do not simply remove it, though; it is still relevant. Θεοδωρος יִרְמְיָהוּ Nizarck 00:51, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you for the most part, but what I meant is: information that came from filler episodes and movies usually leads to more confusion, which is not a good thing. Again, I agree that the information is officially licensed, but it is not canon, and it probably would not seem right to use it as 100% canon. I am mainly talking about the Onigumo parts; creating a big thing such as Onigumo's past is a big step, since none of this has been confirmed by Takahashi. However, just like you said, if it is noted that the information came from a filler or movie, that should be good enough, I suppose.

It also occurred to me that a lot of contributors write things from a Naraku-hater's point of view (not only in Naraku's article, but in Hakudoushi's, Kagura's, Sesshoumaru's and others as well), which does not seem like a very intelligent, nor mature thing to do. Because this is an information site, I believe that things should be writtern from a neutral point of view-- without favoritism or dislike.IANS 2:11, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Duly noted; the changes have been implemented regarding both Naraku's status as a han'yō, and the disparities between the manga, anime, and movies. Θεοδωρος יִרְמְיָהוּ Nizarck 00:43, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Time of weakness

The article said that Naraku's time of weakness happens once a month, like Inuyasha's. I don't think the manga or the anime ever says this. In fact, both appear to say that more than one month passed between the first sequence of story events at the castle, and the one time we see the castle barrier weaken along with Naraku. I guess you could reconcile this with the once-a-month interpretation using some ad hoc hypothesis, but let's keep it out of the article unless someone provides a citation. Dan 18:18, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

This is a tricky issue. Naraku says that he can choose the time when he reverts to his human form. Does that mean that he can go on for a million years without reverting? obviously not. Hanyo's revert to human form to balance out the existence of being halfway between yokai and human. That's why I think Naraku just like Inuyasha reverts once a month, but he choose which day of the month that is, but he still has to do it once a month. Also remember Naraku isn't a main character and we don't see him in every episode. Kagura herself stated how he disappears from time to time without her knowing where he is. We only got to see a one time wonder of Naraku's "human form", so we can't really tell how long the period is for Naraku. That's why I think we should state in the article that the general assumption is that it is one month during which he has to pick a day for reverting to his human form. (User:Noman953)

Who makes this general assumption? If you find people saying this outside Wikipedia, maybe you could get away with quoting them or citing them in the article. But WP:No original research strictly forbids adding theories that seem reasonable to you without citations from outside sources. Dan 18:45, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

How powerful is Naraku-sama?

-We know he doesn't fear Sesshomaru. Sesshomaru always going after him, but not the other way around. Naraku has manipulated and tried to kill him but never went after him. -Moryomaru was able to hold his own against Kikyo, Inuyasha and Sesshomaru. I bet if Naraku had just let him grow super powerful with the Shikon jewel he could have easily killed of all of Naraku's enemies. -And I doubt Kikyo would even be able to reach the Shikon jewel while its inside his impenetrable shell; and now Naraku has absorbed Moryomaru so then why does he have to reclaim his human heart to fill Kikyo with malice. He even told his heart he didn't want to come back meaning he doesn't like his human heart, so why did he reclaim it. -Either Rumiko Takahashi screwed up or there's something I'm missing (User:Noman953)

The manga explains this clearly at the time, in my view. Midoriko and Kikyo had planned to destroy Naraku by purifying a shard of the Shikon jewel to such a degree that when Naraku seized it, the shard would purify him. Onigumo's heart says it can stop this from happening by bringing darkness to the shard first. In other words, Onigumo's feelings give him a completely different kind of power, one that Naraku didn't have without Onigumo despite growing in youki and physical abilities. Apples and oranges. Dan 18:40, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Yōkai or han'yō?

First of all I don't remember anywhere in the manga about Abi and her mom saying he's a hanyou. And the anime isn't very reliable because there are loads and loads of continuity problems in it. In the beginning of the series they claimed that Kagome, but not Inuyasha, needed the shikon jewel to pass throught the well. But later on she was able to do without it. Same goes for the second movie; which by the way was removed from the story due to continuity problems with the anime; during the Akitoki Hojo arc I believe. And by the way exactly what do Abi and her mom know about Naraku? Do they know that he's made from millions of of yokai? Do they know his history with Onigumo? Do they know how he expelled humanity from himself, etc.? I don't see exactly what makes them an authority over Naraku?

I strongly advice you guys to watch episode 123 to get an idea of what I'm saying; Naraku says something about why absorbing humans would make him weaker. That's why his powers increased astronimically in Mount Hakurei. Naraku was always very powerful since he had so many different powers from so many different demons, not to mention how many he absorbed in 50 years but his humanity was always reducing his power. Once he go rid of it he became all powerful. I'll admit that he has the hugest shikon shard giving him strength, but he still was a lot more powerful then when he appeared with the same shikon shard after the Mount Hakurei arc. This huge jolt in power that we see at Mount Hakurei seems too concidental. Naraku has always been absorbing demons so I don't see why absorbing more could give him such a big boost. The reason is simple, its because he's full yokai now. (User:Noman953)

Please, remain civil while discussing articles. No need to say things like "dammit". -- ReyBrujo 20:37, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

In the Manga, Abi and her Mother did, indeed say that Naraku is a Hanyou or half-Demon. If you do not believe me, then read these exact Manga scripts: http://www.wot-club.org.uk/trans/iv31/ . If somehow, you do not believe the script, then I will provide actual Manga scans that I own. I agree, there are many errors in the Anime, which is why many people get all of their information from the Manga.

Yes, Naraku said that absorbing Humans would weaken him, or do nothing for him, but that is probably because humans are weak compared to Youkais. Absorbing a few low-class Youkai or Demons probably would not help Naraku much, either. I agree; Abi nor Tekkei knew nothing about Naraku, however, Abi somehow knew that Inu-Yasha is a Hanyou/Half-Demon, and there is not much that proves that she was wrong about Naraku, either. Seriously, Naraku became more powerful at Hakurei-Zan, but why would that automatically make him a full-Youkai? I know that he got rid of Onigumo's feelings towards Kikyou, etc, but he still appeared to be similar to how he used to be, in my opinion. Perhaps Naraku is unable to erase every bit of Onigumo or humaity from his body or soul unless he uses the complete Shikon No Tama. And by the way, Kikyou DID say that Naraku cannot erase who he once was...

All of these are opinions and theories of mine, but I DO believe that Naraku is still a Hanyou. And sometimes, the characters themselves ( Abi, Tekkei, etc) know more than we do-- unless they are proven wrong.IANS 2:37, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Fictional sadists

Would it be safe to say that Naraku gains a general pleasure out of the pain he causes others? Although most of his actions throughout the series seem to be a means to an end, such as turning Inuyasha and Kikyo against each other in order to corrupt the Shikon jewel, does he not seem to enjoy the act of manipulating and ruining the lives of other characters? An example of this would be during the Tsubaki arc, when he left Inuyasha with the choice of either killing Kagome in self defense, or being killed himself by her (while she was manipulated by a corrupted jewel shard). I say this because Naraku has been taken out of and placed back in the aforementioned category on several occasions.

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I am the person who removes it,( Fictional Sadists ) because there is practically 0-proof that Naraku is a Sadist. Also, " fictional mass murders " hardly seems to describe him correctly either, in my opinion, because he does not always kill simply to kill and such; he does whatever he wishes to do for power, and innocent people usually get caught in between -- so they die. Also, Inu-Yasha kills many Youkai and such, so should he be under that category as well? Good or evil -- a killer is still a killer, and Youkai may not be human, but they still value their own lives as well as the lives of their family, and they have flesh and blood also.

Type in, " sadist " either here, or at http://www.dictionary.com , then you will see exactly what a sadist truly is, and Naraku barely seems to relate to one at all. I agree on Naraku tending to behave somewhat sadistic when it comes to hurting Inu-Yasha and perhaps Kikyou, but that is merely because he has / had a PERSONAL grudge against them, and again, he seems to get no sexual pleasure from hurting them ( which is one of the most obvious feelings that a sadist gets ). If any Naraku-related character is a sadist, I believe it is Kagura or Hakudoushi, but I do not see their articles listed under that category -- Naraku's article tends contain enough HATEFUL-BIAS, so it does not need anymore unproved assumptions ( what are people trying to prove? We all know that Naraku is evil and hated, so why fluant or hype it so often?? Why not act " neutral," since this is supposed to be an intelligent, mature, informative article...?). Peace... IANS 8:37, 5 July 2006 (UTC)