Talk:John Hagee

Hagee is now preaching that Iran has nuclear weapons, and that the US and Israel must invade. Doesn't this disqualify him from being 'a man of God?'

John Hagee also preaches a message of hate and intolerance for anyone of Islam. This is not an exact quote, but on the topic of Islamic studies programs at universities, he says that these are set up and funded for the sole purpose of creating a generation of anti-americans and anti-capitalists. This is a very dangerous message, as these programs at american universities are established in order to promote tolerance and understanding of cultures other than our own, and reduce the risk of ignorance and hatred for non-christians. If the people of the congregation only "know" what they are taught by this minister, then they are doomed to ignorance, and this country truly is in trouble. But it will not be the trouble that he speaks of. It will come down to a war waged in our own country by the evangelicals against anyone who is not.

first, in answering the person above, there is a signifigant amount of evidence from the Qu'ran and other various sources that Hagee and various ministers (Such as Ron Parsely I think )often use to attack Islam which, for the most part, is often higly legitimate at least in some fashion, so if we could locate some actual quotes on his take on Islam presenting a little bit of some evidence he provides, that could go in there under a sub-topic perhaps. Secondly, that quote at the bottom doesn't seem to make much sense, did he really say that or did he say "Or you will offend the world and please God"? Homestarmy 16:59, 5 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And there is eviidence from the Bible that could be used 'legitimately' to attack Christianity. The problem with Hagee is he picks out the parts of both the Bible and the Koran that suit his relgio-political agenda. I just hope he's wrong about Iran.--Ckav 05:22, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One could take many passages of the bible and pervert the intent of the overall message. The same can be said of the Koran (however you wish to spell it). If one were to make an effort to understand what the Koran says (as well as the Christian Bible), the overall message is a message of reverence of God, acts of kindness, and tolerance for others (the Koran respects and holds in high esteem the phophets of the Old Testament--as well as those who believe it). Problems are created when zealots spew forth hatred and bigotry, and use their religion for justification--an unbelievable act of blasphemy! This is a message unfortunately uttered more times than not at the Cornerstone Baptist Church, by Mr. Hagee. Which truly makes one wonder: what would the "Prince of Peace," Jesus Christ, thinks of John Hagee? Where is the love, tolerance and understanding (all hallmarks in the life of Christ), in John Hagee's message? Truly a shame. I witnessed Mr. Hagee on many occasions. Technically, he has a magnificent voice, and great technique. Although his face may be made for radio--his cadence, delivery and vocal inflection are all unparallelled. ...if only the message... To me, he appears to be more of a Neo-Conservative Republican activist operating under the veil of a Christian Church. Which brings up the question: Are any of the church tithings finding their way into replublican coffers? Perhaps it's time for an audit.

Yea, the thithing thing is unfortunently a grave flaw in Mr. Hagee's message, both Biblically and supposedly greed-related, but other than that, what other examples of Hagee spewing "Bigotry and hatred" do you have? I'd hardly call the thithing thing such an example, can you name any specifics? It always seemed to me that whenever Hagee gets on the topic of other religions doing horrible things, he always seems to condemn the actions rather than the people :/. But then again, I haven't seen every single episode of him preach.....Homestarmy 17:33, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Bigotry and hatred?" How about the fact that Hagee is advocating an attack on Iran right now, and also says that the UN is the tool of the Anti-Christ? Homestarmy, I think you need to make a distinction between your faith and real-word facts. Otherwise, I worry that you are skewing all of your articles and edits towards your particular (unprovable) belief-system. --72.225.252.105 16:37, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Like I said, I haven't seen every single episode of him preach. I get bits and pieces of it from TBN occasionally. I know first hand some of his stuff is silly, the tithing thing like I mentioned above, the whole "God sent Katrina!!!111!!11oneone!!!1" thing, but beyond that, I really don't live off the guy's sermons. I just happen to know a little about him. If he's advocating a sneak attack on Iran, and says the U.N. is a tool of the anti-christ, then the second is a violation of Matthew 7:1 if he's asserting something about the people of the U.N., and the first is probably jumping the gun a whole lot. So therefore, assuming that what you say is true, I would be skewed in this instance alright....against Hagee's message. But you'll need to cite individual episodes or something so that they can be mentioned in the article, or hey, even put them in now without a citation, I don't care much because it doesn't seem fanciful that a man could mess up the Bible's message (especially when he seems to of done it before), maybe somebody will source what your saying properly eventually. My particular provable belief system mandates that I "test everything", and Mr. Hagee is certainly a valid target, so if critisisms are laid out fairly and accuratly, and now that you've been specific, you may lay out those 2 things you mentioned immedietly.(Without the "He's a bigot!" part though). Finally, there is no "my" articles, I don't do much for this one, the only one's i've created are listed on my userpage and don't even have anything to do with Christianity, and having them be "my" articles would violate WP:OWN. Homestarmy 17:26, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have watched his program many times and what you've written is rubbish and completely erroneous. - Anonymous

Chart of payroll thing

Ok, this same person has put that thing on 2 people's articles so far (or at least 2 that I remember seeing on my watchlist)and as far as I can tell no information is actually inside the article that has been added from it. What is the point? Because if there is none, that link needs to be deleted, is it even proper style for links to lead to notepad documents for download? Homestarmy 22:20, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

External links

Open Letter to Pastor Hagee regarding excessive executive compensation

This looks to me like a personal webpage.....but hey, critics have a right to speak too, it's just I dunno if this falls under proper citation categories. Homestarmy 16:05, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Latest mass edit

I am hesistant to revert such a large amount of work, so I figured i'd try to discuss it first. I saw waaaaay more quotes than were necessary, including a bunch which just looked like advertising and should probably be removed, that "beliefs" thing looks like it should be condensed, and all the external links were changed, whats up with that? Homestarmy 03:57, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

answer:

FYI...the "beliefs thing" is from Hagee's website... MOST of the quotes were deleted as I too agree that it was too much. Lastly, ALL the external links were NOT changed...Some were added. 1:13 pm CST June 30, 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 167.24.104.150 (talk • contribs) .

It's just the spaces in the beliefs part seemed so wide it looked very odd. The edits also deleted a fair amount of sentences, which I thought was suspicious since there were no edit summaries. Homestarmy 18:21, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not really sure I know what you're talking about...Most of the information was cited & came from biography's from Dr. Hagee. The original biography had A LOT of inaccurate information. If you wish to edit anything, you're more than happy to do it. (Obviously)I'm not quite sure what an "edit summary" is. Also, the beliefs section is word for word from Dr. Hagee...—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 167.24.104.150 (talk • contribs) .

I was watching the stream of edits last night as well, and I was waiting for the inevitable removal of every negative comment. Instead, it looks like you've done a fantastic job of bringing the article into a more balanced state - thank you very much for fixing it up! There are many style issues that can be easily fixed, you may want to read the style guide at WP:MOS when you have some free time. I'll try to fix some of it when I get a moment, and Mr. Homestarmy has all the tricks memorized as well and will assist you.

The edit summary thing he was talking about is in a little box below the big white box where you're making your edits. You would typically put a couple of words in there to summarize what you just did. So for example when you inserted the list of his books, you'd write "created list of works" in the edit summary box. This lets people see what your intent was, instead of trying to guess it from what you did. You may also want to create an account when you get an opportunity - it allows you to set all sorts of preferences - it's easy and you don't have to give out any personal information what-so-ever, not even an e-mail address. Again, thanks for your contributions. Kuru ^talk 22:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, to get things started sorting all this out, I would like to suggest putting "beliefs" under the ministry section, because it says "we believe" which I take to mean Cornerstone church and the ministry rather than Hagee personally. Homestarmy 00:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

hmmm...have to respectfully disagree there...seeing as how Hagee is the founder & CEO of Cornerstone

Probably. I'm still not sure if that's the church's ethos or his, though. I just removed the book list and replaced it with one more to the style used in other articles - the one that was in there was a cut & paste from his site, which is a no-no for non-quotes. I sourced the Amazon hardback publish date for each book as well. Kuru ^talk 01:44, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wholesale removal of biography

The recent unsigned mass edit removed the separate biography, including information about Hagee's first marriage, which I have restored. Bregence 16:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like a good call on your part. Homestarmy 18:19, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unless you site a reference, I don't think that information about him commiting adultery should be put on there...Where's this letter??? Also, AGAIN you are wrong. Hagee's 1st 2 children (Chris & Tish) are from his first marriage. (Hence why it was cleaned up.)

Well at this point he's commited adultery whether admittedly odd looking unsourced information is in the article or not, remember, "And if he marries again, that man has commited adultery"....but some of the information you removed seemed to have nothing to do with the subject. Homestarmy 04:18, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"but some of the information you removed seemed to have nothing to do with the subject." Such as??? I think removing the INACCURATE information about which mother his children came from was a darn pretty good call...

Also, Homestarmy, it would be nice if YOU as well included your source...what scripture EXACTLY were you quoting? Is it from the new testament or the old testament? --Laces 04:37, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This would indeed be the New Testament, you know, that book with the stuff about the new covenant and the thing about the whole "Do not get divorces" bit? I could turn to Malachi 2:16 though, where God says that He hates divorce. Anyway, it's Matthew 19:9, "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."" But really its no big deal, we all sin, is it so horrible that John Hagee is rendered as a man rather than somebody with perfect ethics? Unless of course Hagee getting divorced then really was a matter of marital unfaithfulness, I mean it's certainly not unheard of or anything, but you never seemed to indicate this possibility. As for information you removed, you seemed to of blanked the entire paragraph concerning Hagee founding the Church of Castle Hills, in addition to removing the existance of his other marriage. Fixing where the children came from is no problem, but trying to remove mention of their existance and of the other wife is not. Homestarmy 04:47, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Back to the point...where is the "proof"? Where is the link to this "open letter" that he submitted to the church? The only pages on the net that I could find about it was from Hagee hate sites. That's why it was left out... I couldn't verify even that he founded the Trinity Church...that information was on wikipedia only... I would rather have a biography that is correct.--Laces 05:01, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, the open letter bit I can understand you deleting, it is indeed quite a scandalous sounding claim and certainly deserves citation if its supposed to be in the article. Does Hagee's ministry have any statement to the effect of "This is the only church Hagee founded" or anything to that effect which would contradict the Castle Hills part? Homestarmy 17:07, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, it doesn't. I didn't think that it was very relevant & didn't even remember that it was in the original, however if it is true, then that is fine. I made a mistake. --Laces 17:14, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

At one time I really enjoyed Hagee. The best there was in my opinion. However, over time I noticed a change ( quite sudden ) - he seemed far more interested in tithing $ and extremely interested in all things pro-Israel and the End of the Earth ( Apolycalypse-ish )- he appeared to become overwhelmed with not dying before the End, kissing Israel anywhere they wanted and more and more money. I am surprised to see some of the negative stuff here - his first two kids are a complete surprise to me - after years of adoring the guy and gradually feeling embarrassed by him. Not that I felt uneasy about his change - similar to Christopher Hitchens.

Hmm, I started questioning Mr. Hagee's message in a similar manner, though I did have some help from the internet....ah, I remember that day well, there I was walking about thinking about Christianity, then suddenly, it hits me. Tithing.....there wern't any specific rules on that in the NT, were there? After checking the internet it all started to fall into place... Homestarmy 20:15, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tithing & hypocrisy

I have never seen "Christians" as judgemental & hypocritical than when John Hagee's name is mentioned. I suppose in order to be a pastor, one would have never had to use drugs, have an alcohol problem, been divorced or sinned of any kind. No??? Then why does Hagee's past seem to come up so often when his compensation is talked about? If you really examine your heart you will see that it comes right down to jealousy (which BTW is a sin.) Who cares if Hagee makes a lot of money?

I don't see anyone complaining that Donald Trump makes too much money...Why is it that if a pastor who started from nothing builds a ministry, write bestsellers, has a television network, is broadcasted all over the world, and donates millions of dollars is paid well? There are pastors right here in San Antonio that have bigger & MORE homes than he does & no one ever mentions them. However, Hagee chooses to have a backbone & actually ANSWERS questions about the Bible & moral issues instead of dancing around the question. This infuriates a lot of people...especially the one's whose pastor's never mention current events & how the Bible should apply to common, everyday life.

Hagee never defends himself, he never even makes mention of the "controversies" surrounding him. He just goes right on, preaching the word of God. Jesus did say that the world hated him & the world will hate us too.

Also, Homestarmy, you are exactly wrong. In Genesis 14:20 & Hebrews 7 we see Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, this was before the Law! Tithing was practiced before the law.

Another example of tithing before the Mosaic Law was Jacob, in Genesis 28:20-22. The law simply adopted tithing...

Now, despite what we've seen, if we were no longer under the law, then we are allowed to murder, right??? Obviously not! You see, what it means, not to be under the law, is that we are no longer ensured eternity by following it alone, but through the redemptive work of Christ...

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus says that “we should tithe” -New Testament.

Take a close look at Heb 7:8(KJV) And here [earth] men that die receive tithes; but there [heaven] he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Notice the present, perpetual tense.

Hebrews was written 70 years A.D. and the apostle Paul by the unction of the Holy Spirit tells us that the Lord receives our tithes today!

Psalm 24:1, 89:11, Haggai 2:8, 1 Corinthians 29:11, 10:26 verify explicitly that God owns everything… According to 1 Chronicles 29:12-14, we see that everything we have, including money, comes from God. The conclusion is that, we are stewards of what is entrusted to us, just like a company car, it’s your to use, but never belongs to you. In other words we’ll be entrusted with however much God knows He can trust us with. [1] --Laces 02:36, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]