Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Markus Kuhn

Markus Kuhn

Doesn't seem to be any more notable than the average college professor DJ Clayworth 15:13, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep Seems more notable than the average college professor. Dionyseus 15:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please read the discussion at Talk:Markus Kuhn. Uncle G 16:17, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep Here's an article [1]. He's well known in his field. Teke 16:24, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- But whilst he is a producer of source material on other subjects (that is used as a reference in several Wikipedia articles), there is little biographical source material about him, that can be used as the basis for this article. The article that you link to contains exactly one sentence about Markus Kuhn himself, for example. Uncle G 16:39, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - Articles are not written in a day. Come on. And most of the biographies on the Wikipedia don't come from published biographies. Evertype
    - Speed of writing has nothing to do with it. I was talking about lack of source material. Any biographical articles here on Wikipedia that don't come from sources are in contravention of our (1) Wikipedia:Verifiability and (2) Wikipedia:No original research policies. Uncle G 16:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      - No way. Go and look at those pages. (1) Biographies of living people need special care because biographies containing unsourced material might negatively affect someone's life and could have legal consequences. Remove unsourced material about living persons immediately if it could be viewed as criticism,[1][2] and do not move it to the talk page. I don't see anything on his page that meets these criteria for deletion. (2) An edit counts as original research if it proposes ideas or arguments. That is, if it does any of the following: It introduces a theory or method of solution; It introduces original ideas; It defines new terms; It provides or presumes new definitions of pre-existing terms; It introduces an argument, without citing a reputable source for that argument, that purports to refute or support another idea, theory, argument, or position; It introduces an analysis or synthesis of established facts, ideas, opinions, or arguments in a way that builds a particular case favored by the editor, without attributing that analysis or synthesis to a reputable source; It introduces or uses neologisms, without attributing the neologism to a reputable source. I do not find anything on that page that meets these criteria. Evertype 17:13, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        Please read the whole of our policy pages. I don't see anything on his page that meets these criteria for deletion. — The criteria for deletion that are relevant here are verifiability and original research. If you do not see that an article for which no underlying source material exists is unverifiable, then you haven't yet grasped the Wikipedia:Verifiability policy. If you do not see that an article that presents a synthesis of facts, i.e. a biography, of a person without reference to any existing synthesis (or indeed, without any sources for the facts being synthesised) is original research, then you haven't yet grasped the Wikipedia:Original research policy. Please read them again. They are fundamental to what we do here. Uncle G 17:22, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        I'm not a newbie, Uncle G, and you've no credible complaint about anything in that article. I wish you no luck with your crusade. Best regards, Evertype 17:29, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep. Markus' contributions to standards and internationalization standards are quite notable. This article should be expanded, not deleted. The proposal for deletion seems rather mean-spirited. Evertype 16:42, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Please explain what sources you think can be used to make this article verifiable and to expand it. Uncle G 16:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Also note that Wikipedia covers his contributions elsewhere, in articles such as EURion constellation. As I said, he is a producer of source material on other subjects that is used as reference material in the articles on those subjects. For an article about him, however, there has to be source material about him. Uncle G 16:53, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - Do you suggest that he was NOT (born 1971 in Munich), that he is NOT is a German computer scientist, that he is NOT currently teaching and researching at the University of Cambridge Computer Laboratory, that he did NOT graduate from the University of Erlangen (Germany), Purdue University (Indiana, US), and the University of Cambridge (England), and that he is NOT a Fellow of Wolfson College, Cambridge? I am sure that similar statements are made in MOST of the biographical articles on the Wikipedia. The number of pages which link to that article shows that an article is needed and useful. Deleting it would just leave a whole lot of dead links. To what purpose? What specific information on this page do you consider particularly suspect? Evertype 17:05, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    - Again, your argument bears no relation to what I actually wrote, and does not answer what you were asked. The number of hyperlinks to this article is irrelevant. What is important here is sources. I ask again: What sources do you think can be used to verify the article as it stands, to expand the article, and (indeed!) to verify the statements that you make above? Please cite some sources of biographical information about this person. ~~You have~~ Teke has cited one that contains 1 sentence of information (which isn't even in this article, ironically), so far. Uncle G 17:12, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      - What source exactly do we need to prove that Markus was born in Munich in 1971? Where is the source proving that Jimbo Wales was born in Huntsville? This move for deletion is mean-spirited and pointless, and the deletion of this article for the weak theoretical argument you make will not make the Wikipedia any better. Evertype 17:20, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        We need a reliable source that states that, of course. The source for anything in Jimbo Wales should be cited by that article (and, indeed, if you read that article you will find that it cites sources and even has a citation link right next to the sentence that states where he was born). If you consider Wikipedia:Verifiability to be "weak" and "theoretical", then you have come to the wrong place. Verifiability is fundamental to Wikipedia. Uncle G 17:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: notable. Please refer to Computer Security Engineering ISBN 0471389226. --Ragib 17:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Why? What does the book tell us about Markus Kuhn (as opposed to the subject of computer security engineering)? Uncle G 17:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]